Help needed with team cart ideas!! [Archive]

Brown

24-09-2007, 14:53

Hey everyone I am speaking on the behalf of team 1742. This year our team is looking to improve upon our cart. We want to engineer something that will transport/possibly lift the robot at competition. If you fellow First Robotics teams could put a picture of your carts on the site our team would greatly appreciate it. We are not looking to make an exact copy of your cart per say we just want to derive some ideas to create a cart that best suits our needs.

ebarker

24-09-2007, 15:09

If you will go to the FIRST website and dig around and find the archived conference presentations you should find one that was done by a team on the design of a pit cart.

tseres

24-09-2007, 16:00

just make sure it's absolutely covered in lights :)

AcesPease

24-09-2007, 16:49

Here is a picture of our robot up on our cart at an off season event:

http://aceshigh176.org/drupal/index.php/v/2007/Bash_Beach/PA140002.JPG.html?q=gallery

The arms reverse so the robot is near the ground and very easy to maneuver in tight places, like ordinary doorways. When transporting the cart folds to about 6"

Pavan Dave

24-09-2007, 19:05

Bright lights, a horn, possibly a CAR stereo, and this is very very optional, but a way to safely drive the non-stearing wheels via motors.

Billfred

24-09-2007, 19:09

I saw one thing on 79's cart at Florida this year that I thought was genius. They had a frosted white panel on the base, which was lit from below. Result? Easy visibility of any part of the robot, no matter how poorly-lit the pit tents at Florida were.

Kristian Calhoun

24-09-2007, 19:44

Bright lights, a horn, possibly a CAR stereo, and this is very very optional, but a way to safely drive the non-steering wheels via motors.
Just a reminder to keep in mind the following when building your cart:

3.3.6 NEW: Robot Carts
To protect team members and mentors from muscle strains and other injuries as they transport
the heavy robot from the Pit to the competition area, we recommend that team members and
mentors use some type of cart, keeping the following in mind.

Carts must remain in the team pit area when not in use for robot transportation
All carts should fit through a standard 30-inch door
Wheels on the cart must not damage site flooring
Do not add music to the cart.

Prior to competing, your competition team should practice lifting your robot onto and off your cart.
Refer to the “FIRST Robotics Competition Team Safety Manual” for robot lifting techniques. By
practicing these safe techniques, your team members will also develop a quick, fluid routine.

Also, section 3.12 of last years rulebook states

Do not use noisy devices, such as floor stompers, whistles, or air horns.Yes, the rules differ from year to year, but I doubt that these rule will change drastically anytime soon.

Pavan Dave

24-09-2007, 21:09

Just a reminder to keep in mind the following when building your cart:

Also, section 3.12 of last years rulebook states
Yes, the rules differ from year to year, but I doubt that these rule will change drastically anytime soon.

Okay BUT honestly, when at demos or at competitions people don't pay attention and from time to time you NEED to use your horn. Also about the music, our team listens to music at the facility using the cart, and when we go to demo's we use it for music. If you want a good cart you will incorporate these, because I'm assuming you are building a ROBOT cart and not a FRC cart.

If you have it and don't use it its all good, its when you use it is where FIRST has problems *sigh*..-.

Libby K

24-09-2007, 21:24

Okay BUT honestly, when at demos or at competitions people don't pay attention and from time to time you NEED to use your horn. Also about the music, our team listens to music at the facility using the cart, and when we go to demo's we use it for music. If you want a good cart you will incorporate these, because I'm assuming you are building a ROBOT cart and not a FRC cart.

If you have it and don't use it its all good, its when you use it is where FIRST has problems *sigh*..-.

Pavan,

You and Kristian are both right.

Kristian- Good job Reading The FIRST Manual! The rules are everyone's friend. If one was making a cart for use only in FRC, then these rules should be followed, 100%. However, as Pavan mentioned, some teams use their cart for demos. Music at those demos is fine-- however, there are other ways to do this (almost EVERYTHING is portable now) besides putting it on your cart. If a team was to bring their tricked-out cart to a FIRST event, though, it would be the team's responsiblity to stick to the honor code of FIRST. Remember, the music/horn rule wasn't made to suck all the fun out of making your robot cart, but so that the pit and field announcements are not interrupted.

In essence, you can make your cart as cool as you want, but you should probably stick to the rules when there are rules given to you. It's the gracious thing to do.

techtiger1

25-09-2007, 17:19

My advice make the cart so it's functional then look good. Team 86 has a pretty cool cart it has a tool box intergrated on it so you don't have to go back and forth to the pits during the finals. We've worked with them a few times at Fl regional and it's always come in handy. 1251 has 2 carts actually one is for demos and one is for robot competitons. The one for demos is crazy and sometimes makes it to competition. I'll post a link to a picture if I have one. The cart has a custom paint job, sound system, and built in battery chargers. We brought it to championship in 06. Some other good ideas I have seen on carts is team 233's cart has a scissor lift that allows them to work on the robot with out having to take it on and off the cart.

Just some thoughts,
Drew

Hunter Levesque

25-09-2007, 21:05

We have shelves on our cart that we use to hold water bottles during the elimination rounds because the drivers don't have a chance to leave the field.

Daniel Bathgate

25-09-2007, 21:48

If you fellow First Robotics teams could put a picture of your carts on the site...

Picture of our cart?

http://blacklint.com/~dannyb/chiefdelphi/DCP_0332.jpg

As a rookie team short on members, we didn't have any time to deal with making a cart, so we simply used a hand truck from Orchard Supply laid sideways. It wasn't pretty, but it worked great. Remember that the primary goal of your cart is to move your robot, so be sure to make it sturdy. A beautiful, complicated, but broken cart during competition would be not be any fun. One point learned from our cheap cart is to make sure the design of the cart won't damage your robot when it is quickly placed for movement - we had to be careful to place our robot keeping weight off of our underhanging pneumatic cylinders.

That said, now that our team is much larger, a fancier cart is sure to come. Best of luck with yours!

JBotAlan

25-09-2007, 22:17

I don't have any pictures of our team's cart, but I can do my best to describe it.

We have a 2ish ft tall cart with giant wheels on the bottom. The cart has a drawer in which we put everything we need on the field during elims. There are 4 arms that stick up about a foot with u-channel (c-channel, whatever you want to call it) that the base of the robot mates with. That way, the wheels are not damaged by all the dirt/metal shavings/whatever might be on the cart. Nothing but the 4 points on the chassis touch the cart. It posed an issue when we went up against 1114 (I think) and bent the #$%^ out of the front, making putting it on the cart securely interesting...

The cart is covered in diamond plating, making it pretty (my team is probably laughing at this post). It has a handle that can be removed by pulling a pin out.

That's about it. I wish there was a way to take the holding arms off so I have a place to sit during elims...oh well.

JBot

EricH

25-09-2007, 22:37

I don't have any pictures of our team's cart, but I can do my best to describe it.

We have a 2ish ft tall cart with giant wheels on the bottom. The cart has a drawer in which we put everything we need on the field during elims. There are 4 arms that stick up about a foot with u-channel (c-channel, whatever you want to call it) that the base of the robot mates with. That way, the wheels are not damaged by all the dirt/metal shavings/whatever might be on the cart. Nothing but the 4 points on the chassis touch the cart. It posed an issue when we went up against 1114 (I think) and bent the #$%^ out of the front, making putting it on the cart securely interesting...What? No mention of the tow vehicle? Or did that give up the ghost?:eek:

Herodotus

25-09-2007, 22:37

Here is something I just typed up today, as I wanted to have all the ideas and requirements for the cart our team wants to build written out before I started making some sketches and designs. Some ideas I took from reading this thread, while others are ideas we had already been talking about for awhile on our team.

Requirements

Must be able to fit through the average doorway.
Must be able to get over electrical conduits and other bumps in the floor.
Must be sturdy enough to hold at least 180 pounds in weight, for safety.
Must be able to either hold any size robot (platform) or be able to easily convert to hold different sized robots (modular design)
Must be easy to steer, such as using casters.
Has to be transportable in small vehicles. So as many quick releases and modular pieces as possible.

Ideas

Some sort of lift to get the robot up to our height. Possible designs include a scissor lift or straightforward pneumatic/hydraulic lift.
Tool space. At least enough for one of our small toolboxes. Even better would be a design where we can put the top half of our red tool box onto the cart.
Modularity. The ability to alter the cart easily to suit our needs as time goes by.
Diffused under-light for lighting up the interior of the robot without being blindingly bright.
Built in power strip with extendable extension cable.
Sound system for awesomeness, though we couldn’t use it at the competitions.
A place purpose designed to hold the control board.
Drink holders. Mountain Dew, nuff said.
Wicked awesome paint job and sleek design, only if it doesn’t compromise other design features.
Powered cart, or even remote drive. Though this should be last in our considerations as it makes almost everything else harder.

JBotAlan

28-09-2007, 17:15

What? No mention of the tow vehicle? Or did that give up the ghost?:eek:
Oh. The officials at Atlanta call it (the battery-operated truck, for those who aren't familiar with it) an unapproved vehicle, and it has to be parked in our pit at all times to qualify as the cart...so...

Too bad I never got to see it used. We had it out for a little bit at Waterloo, but nowhere else. I've thought more than once that a motorized cart would be nice, but I'm no mechanical guy...

JBot

Wayne C.

28-09-2007, 17:24

crash proof?

Alexa Stott

28-09-2007, 18:09

crash proof?

Yes, having a cart that can withstand speeds of 70MPH and can handle the New Jersey Turnpike (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58932) would be a very good idea...

Chief Pride

30-09-2007, 17:57

Yes, having a cart that can withstand speeds of 70MPH and can handle the New Jersey Turnpike (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58932) would be a very good idea...
i think thats solved quite easily.... just stick it in one of these:

http://www.hakatours.com/images/Zorb%20Triple%20Hydro.jpg

i love those things.... :p

eshteyn

30-09-2007, 20:38

we put a drive system on our carts, including seat belts for the driver, a comfortable bucket seat and probably going to make a trailer for transporting fellow team members :D

bhsrobotics1671

04-10-2008, 17:04

and no one has any picturesss?
common' people!

our team is trying to build a cart right now, and one of our main problems is trying to figure out a mechanism that will raise the robot. We are really interested in scissor lifts but dont know where to start.

any help would be great!
thanks

Booksy

04-10-2008, 21:27

After living without a cart last year, we are definitely building one. Carrying that thing SUCKED.(No one on our team had ever been to a regional, so no one new how important that was).
Oh well, good memories, and a lesson learned (laughing at that is always fun).

synth3tk

04-10-2008, 23:00

we put a drive system on our carts, including seat belts for the driver, a comfortable bucket seat and probably going to make a trailer for transporting fellow team members :D
Haha, I think remember seeing yours at Buckeye last year. Pretty sweet.

Anyway, because our budget was pretty low, I couldn't do too much on our cart as far as functionality went. So instead, I went with the pretty route.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30165
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30189

It was motorized using the base of 2007's bot, had about 8-10 of those cathodes (all from previous years), and topped off with a nice yellow-and-black striped paint job. I wanted a few more things on there that actually mattered, like a lift, built-in toolboxes, etc. But, again, finances prohibited that.

I'm sad now, because I don't even live in that area anymore, so I'll never see my creation again. :(

Anyway, go for functionality. It's much more important than the extra bling, although that's usually nice to throw in if you plan on using it at demos, off-season, and the likes.

Cow Bell Solo

04-10-2008, 23:13

We are currently working on our robot cart this year with a lift mechanism in it. I will upload pictures upon completion, which is hopefully soon(week or two I hope) to do some text pictures i will show you

in a storing position it is like so

_______
/ /
/_______/

but alot flatter, flat enough that we can push it underneith the robot, but then it folds upright rising the robot.

________
| |
| |
|_______|

motorized of course(lift)

this is what we firgured to work best to access most areas on the robot.

AndyB

05-10-2008, 01:36

http://www.cartsandwagons.com/wagons/lawn-&-garden/buffalotools36lx18winchesflatbedcart.cfm?source=gb ase&gbid=Buffalo_Tools_36L_x_18W_inches_Flatbed_Cart

We use something like that. Except ours is about 28" wide and 42" long. Not entirely sure where we got them though. They have an expanded metal flatbed base that you could easily mount things to, to add your own customized touch to it.

robostangs548

05-10-2008, 01:41

Here is some pics of our cart from this year... It was pretty fun to build, and really got our team noticed and everyone in the city was like, "oh yeah, your that team with that cart!" so it was pretty sweet for demos and stuff...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31254
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31247

Big thing to remember is how you are going to power everything, we used a Hybrid Battery out of a new Tahoe, but you may want to find something of the sort, because power is an important issue if you are on the move.

Roger

05-10-2008, 14:55

AndyB: We got one similar to the one you linked at a Home Depot when we went to the Championships in Atlanta a couple of years ago. Found it 10 minutes before the store was shut, :ahh: and the lights were being shut off :ahh: . Otherwise we'd of had to carry the robot from pit to field. :ahh: :ahh: :ahh:

It's a very good robot cart base, 28" wide x 48" length, and good tires for the bumps, and the HD version had removable sides to prop the robot up a little higher. We end up bringing our "art cart" cart instead which - every year - the robot doesn't quite sit on properly.

I'm trying to get the manufacturing crew to build on the HD cart a scissors lift and battery/tool shelves under (even drew up some ideas for them), but they are very slow to start on it. Maybe a couple days before we go to our first regional next year?

synth3tk

05-10-2008, 17:46

qwertyuiop[]\

05-10-2008, 18:02

buy an ichair and base it off of that

take your robot up stairs????

IKE

05-10-2008, 18:49

Ours is very simple. The frame is made of Star Bar. We have 6" poly-uretahne wheels. It used to be painted yellow, but the kids did a nice job refinishing it last year. We printed out a large logo on paper and put that under polycarb as the upper surface. This looks really good from the stands. We also added two cross bars about 6 inches off of the surface to boost the robot up (replacing wood blocks).

I would recommend not getting too carried away with the cart. Remeber 1 multi-time National Champion (3 I believe) as well as several time Regional Chairmans winner uses a simple furniture Dolly. They put most of their resources into build a good Bot AND a good team. I am all for fancy carts, but not at the expense of something more important.

The light Idea for working during dark times is a great idea. I remember a couple of almost national champions last year searching for Light at Atlanta while the speeches were being given.

Billfred

05-10-2008, 19:06

The light Idea for working during dark times is a great idea. I remember a couple of almost national champions last year searching for Light at Atlanta while the speeches were being given.
Seconded. After Finals 1 in Atlanta this year, 217 wheeled their robot directly in front of the media section on the floor to go through their pre-match checklist. During that time, it was awful dark on the floor, darker than I'd want to work on a robot with. Thunderchickens as they are, they overcame the constraint (and provided my group's project with great footage--got an A and everything!).

I can also confirm it to be the case at a few other regionals I've attended; Florida (2007 and prior; I missed it in 2008), Palmetto (in both venues), and Peachtree come to mind. Oh, and let's not forget the Thursday Night Blackout of Chesapeake 2007; that was an interesting time to be inspecting!

If you don't put backup lighting on your cart, put it somewhere.

gorrilla

05-10-2008, 20:12

also use pnuematic wheels if its not already been said

metal wheels are not good

Gdeaver

05-10-2008, 21:47

Our cart was donated by a sponsor many years ago. It's made out of Bosch extrusions similiar to 8020 stuff. It's in exellent shape after 7 years of use. Extrustions allow it to be reconfigured. Can't find any good pictures of it .

IKE

08-10-2008, 08:24

Here is 33 cart. Underneath is an emergency repair tool kit and a spare battery storage slot.

Not terribly flashy, but it works well.

Racer26

08-10-2008, 13:32

Anybody that was at GTR or Waterloo would have seen 1075's new cart for 2008. It was built on top of a scrap power wheelchair (the motors were good but the controls and plastic housing were all tore up). It runs on two huge deep cycle marine batteries and an IFI control system now, and has a forklift on the front (probably capable of lifting a standard pallet though we've never tried). Theres a picture of me on it on the forums here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31195

It has a boatload of safety features and there is likely more to be added this year before it goes to competition.

AcesPease

08-10-2008, 14:26

Here is 33 cart. Underneath is an emergency repair tool kit and a spare battery storage slot.

Not terribly flashy, but it works well.

Simple is good. Pits are tight and the cart often has to get out of the way.

synth3tk

08-10-2008, 14:32

This thread just happened to have me searching for carts on CD-Media.

1626 - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31271
842 - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/29656
375 - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/29115
34 - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/28248
578 - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/26745
1549 - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/24411
more - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/search/results/141563

RoboDriver

13-10-2008, 20:49

Pic of 326 cart

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/6a3/6a3d86f887ab2dc77d7a7a5229cd4a02_m.jpg (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/21160)

Features:
Holds 2 Battery's in back tray's.
Holds 6 Battery's and 2 chargers on front tray.
Has 2 compressors from prior years robots.
Has ~3 gallon air tank.
Has 3 drawers for tools.
Holds 2 joysticks and the RC on the top tray.
Robot height can be adjusted up and down 1 foot.
At current height a full sized robot can fit through most doors while on cart.