2008 Regional Registration Progress

[Richard Wallace]

Back to my typical geekiness. I've compiled an early list showing 2008 FRC regional registration progress. As expected, Week 1 and Week 2 events seem to be filling a little faster than others; fewer spots are available those weeks because there are fewer events.

Some events are already shown as full, although it is very likely that spots are being held in reserve for new teams at those events. The ones that appear full as of this tally are: BAE Granite State, Midwest, Greater Kansas City, Detroit, Oklahoma City, and Hawaii.

I'll try to update this list periodically, until/unless FIRST posts a summary. They've done that in previous years but I couldn't find it today.

Please keep in mind that while TIMS is open this data can and will change often, so by time I submit this post it will already be out of date. :)

Regional / Attending / Open

BAE Granite State / 38 / 0
Midwest Chicago / 33 / 0
New Jersey / 19 / 34
Oregon / 12 / 42
St. Louis / 9 / 29
Week 1: / 111 / 105 / 51% full

Arizona / 19 / 35
Finger Lakes / 16 / 16
Greater Kansas City / 54 / 0
NASA/VCU Richmond / 31 / 25
San Diego / 14 / 24
Week 2: / 134 / 100 / 57% full

Boilermaker / 21 / 11
Brazil / 0 / 30
Chesapeake / 11 / 43
Connecticut / 15 / 55
Detroit / 30 / 0
Florida / 47 / 7
Peachtree / 18 / 20
Pittsburgh / 4 / 27
Silicon Valley / 20 / 20
Wisconsin / 17 / 37
Week 3: / 183 / 250 / 42% full

Buckeye / 4 / 46
Lone Star / 9 / 45
Los Angeles / 14 / 28
Microsoft Seattle / 13 / 19
Oklahoma City / 32 / 0
Davis/Sacramento / 6 / 28
Waterloo / 4 / 22
West Michigan / 16 / 28
Israel / 0 / 42
Week 4: / 98 / 258 / 28% full

Bayou / 9 / 45
Boston / 19 / 21
Colorado / 8 / 30
Great Lakes / 31 / 23
Greater Toronto / 6 / 48
Hawaii / 9 / 0
Las Vegas / 4 / 37
Minnesota / 11 / 21
Palmetto / 6 / 25
Philadelphia / 16 / 18
SBPLI Long Island / 32 / 1
Week 5: / 151 / 269 / 36% full

New York City / 18 / 36 / 33% full

[Billfred]

Interesting data, Richard--and certainly reassuring for those of us whose teams have yet to register.

I've been compiling my own data as to which teams are still missing, which can be seen here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg). My method was to copy the data from teams by state from 2007 (seen here (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&area=SC-USA&year=2007&sort=location) for South Carolina), compile in the spreadsheet, then compare against this (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2008&area=) roster, which appears to show all teams registered for a 2008 FRC event. (It lines up with my spot-checks and checking of nearby regionals.) As of about 1:00 PM today, I counted 698 teams yet to register out of 1,298 teams listed from 2007.

I'll update the sheet as I get time over the coming weeks.

[Richard Wallace]

Thanks for the sanity-check, Billfred. It agrees with my more cursory observation (a few minutes after posting the list above) that about 700 teams have registered for their first-choice regional. So on day two of 2008 registrations we are already above half the number of teams that participated in 2007.

I'm guessing there will be over 400 rookie teams this year, so relative to the eventual total about 41% have registered so far.

[Richard Wallace]

Abbreviated update: 779 teams now registered. Two more regionals appear to be filling up. SBPLI Long Island now shows 31 teams attending and zero open slots. Florida now shows 51 teams attending and just 3 open slots. This brings the total to eight regionals that appear to be full, or nearly so.

Will update the full list in post #1 next week.

[Greg Marra]

As of right now, I count 776 registered teams, distributed as follows:

I can do really neat analysis of things because I have The Blue Alliance database.

Teams Registered Event Name
38 BAE SYSTEMS Granite State Regional
34 Midwest Regional
20 New Jersey Regional
14 Oregon Regional
11 St. Louis Regional
23 Arizona Regional
18 Finger Lakes Regional
54 Greater Kansas City Regional
37 NASA / VCU Regional
16 San Diego Regional
22 Boilermaker Regional
13 Chesapeake Regional
17 Connecticut Regional
30 Detroit Regional
51 Florida Regional
23 Peachtree Regional
4 Pittsburgh Regional
26 Silicon Valley Regional
21 Wisconsin Regional
7 Buckeye Regional
10 Lone Star Regional
16 Los Angeles Regional
15 Microsoft Seattle Regional
32 Oklahoma City Regional
6 UC Davis Sacramento Regional
4 Waterloo Regional
19 West Michigan Regional
13 Bayou Regional
26 Boston Regional
12 Colorado Regional

[Pat Fairbank]

As of right now, I count 776 registered teams, distributed as follows:

I can do really neat analysis of things because I have The Blue Alliance database.
That doesn't seem quite right - aren't there 41 regionals this year? I'm only seeing 30.

[Greg Marra]

That doesn't seem quite right - aren't there 41 regionals this year? I'm only seeing 30.

I suspect my query is omitting nulls.

[GaryVoshol]

That doesn't seem quite right - aren't there 41 regionals this year? I'm only seeing 30.

I suspect my query is omitting nulls.

Great Lakes Regional (week 5) is missing from your list. I know there are teams registered for it.

I also don't see Minnesota and Philadelphia, week 5 or New York week 6. I suspect your list got cut off partway through.

[Greg Marra]

Great Lakes Regional (week 5) is missing from your list. I know there are teams registered for it.

I also don't see Minnesota and Philadelphia, week 5 or New York week 6. I suspect your list got cut off partway through.

I am foolish. This is the first 30 results of the query...

Here are all of them, as of when I posted earlier. The second number is the week times ten. IE Week 1 = 10

Teams Registered week*10 name
38 10 BAE SYSTEMS Granite State Regional
34 10 Midwest Regional
20 10 New Jersey Regional
14 10 Oregon Regional
11 10 St. Louis Regional
23 20 Arizona Regional
18 20 Finger Lakes Regional
54 20 Greater Kansas City Regional
37 20 NASA / VCU Regional
16 20 San Diego Regional
22 30 Boilermaker Regional
13 30 Chesapeake Regional
17 30 Connecticut Regional
30 30 Detroit Regional
51 30 Florida Regional
23 30 Peachtree Regional
4 30 Pittsburgh Regional
26 30 Silicon Valley Regional
21 30 Wisconsin Regional
7 40 Buckeye Regional
10 40 Lone Star Regional
16 40 Los Angeles Regional
15 40 Microsoft Seattle Regional
32 40 Oklahoma City Regional
6 40 UC Davis Sacramento Regional
4 40 Waterloo Regional
19 40 West Michigan Regional
13 50 Bayou Regional
26 50 Boston Regional
12 50 Colorado Regional
8 50 Greater Toronto Regional
36 50 Great Lakes Regional
7 50 Las Vegas Regional
13 50 Minnesota Regional
7 50 Palmetto Regional
20 50 Philadelphia Regional
32 50 SBPLI Long Island Regional
21 60 New York City Regional

[Richard Wallace]

As of this evening there are 100 rookie FRC teams registered for 2008. And registration has only been open for five days. :)

[TKM.368]

Here are all of them, as of when I posted earlier.

So sad, Hawaii doesn't rate (and neither does Israel or Brazil).

[Greg Marra]

The Blue Alliance Events Page (http://thebluealliance.net/tbatv/eventlist.php?year=2008) now provides a semi-live count of teams attending each regional. Waterloo and Pittsburg seem particularly empty as of yet.

[Billfred]

I just now got Google Docs to play nice again, and I updated the spreadsheet to see who's left.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg

Currently, 551 teams have yet to register. 857 teams have registered overall, including rookies and teams coming off inactive status. (I noticed that 710 had registered for Florida--has anyone else caught teams on the rosters making a comeback?)

[Richard Wallace]

Thanks, Billfred.

Do you mind clarifying how you're generating the "who's missing?" list? I notice that 1178 is shown on the list of the missing (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg), but also appears on the list of registered teams here (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2008&area=), which still shows a total of 857 teams. IIRC, 1178 was shown as registered for St. Louis (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&menu=false&event=MO) as of yesterday afternoon.

same story on 1288

[Billfred]

Thanks, Billfred.

Do you mind clarifying how you're generating the "who's missing?" list? I notice that 1178 is shown on the list of the missing (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg), but also appears on the list of registered teams here (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2008&area=), which still shows a total of 857 teams. IIRC, 1178 was shown as registered for St. Louis (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&menu=false&event=MO) as of yesterday afternoon.

same story on 1288 Initially, I was going down the list of 2007 teams and the list of 2008-thus-far teams. When I found a team registered for a 2008 event, they came off the spreadsheet.

Now, I've started copying the whole current 2008 list from FIRST, changing the team names in the current list to just "Registered", sorting by team number, then deleting the Registereds and any entries from the 2007 teams (which would still have their proper names) that corresponded to a Registered number.

Naturally, having a human look over thousands of lines of spreadsheet introduces error--but after further review, it seems like I just forgot to click "Automatically republish when changes are made" on Google Docs. It should be fixed now.

[Richard Wallace]

... It should be fixed now.And so it is. Thanks again. :)

[Billfred]

I went ahead and updated. As of probably 20 minutes ago, 463 teams (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg) remain unregistered. If you see any errors, drop me a line--remember, if I can screw up the caption contest scores, I can screw up anything! ;)

[Richard Wallace]

With ten days to go until 2nd Regional registration opens, 1001 teams have registered: 862 veterans and 139 rookies. There are 728 published spots still open so registration is apparently 58% full. [Of course this neglects an unknown number of spots being held open for expected rookie teams at several regionals.]

Nine regionals are at their published registration capacity: BAE Granite State, Midwest, Greater Kansas City, NASA VCU, Detroit, Oklahoma City, Boston, Hawaii, and SBPLI Long Island. And Florida is all but full with only one published spot open.

Updated regional-by-regional and week-by-week figures follow:

Regional / Attending / Open

BAE Granite State / 38 / 0
Midwest Chicago / 36 / 0
New Jersey / 28 / 25
Oregon / 16 / 38
St. Louis / 17 / 21
Week 1: / 135 / 84 / 62% full

Arizona / 27 / 27
Finger Lakes / 22 / 10
Greater Kansas City / 54 / 0
NASA/VCU Richmond / 52 / 0
San Diego / 20 / 18
Week 2: / 175 / 55 / 76% full

Boilermaker / 27 / 5
Brazil / 0 / 30
Chesapeake / 20 / 34
Connecticut / 21 / 49
Detroit / 30 / 0
Florida / 53 / 1
Peachtree / 31 / 7
Pittsburgh / 7 / 24
Silicon Valley / 32 / 8
Wisconsin / 27 / 27
Week 3: / 249 / 185 / 57% full

Buckeye / 13 / 37
Lone Star / 18 / 35
Los Angeles / 23 / 19
Microsoft Seattle / 17 / 15
Oklahoma City / 35 / 0
Davis/Sacramento / 9 / 25
Waterloo / 4 / 22
West Michigan / 24 / 19
Israel / 1 / 41
Week 4: / 144 / 213 / 40% full

Bayou / 19 / 35
Boston / 40 / 0
Colorado / 21 / 17
Great Lakes / 42 / 12
Greater Toronto / 15 / 39
Hawaii / 26 / 0
Las Vegas / 16 / 25
Minnesota / 23 / 9
Palmetto / 11 / 20
Philadelphia / 24 / 10
SBPLI Long Island / 32 / 0
Week 5: / 269 / 167 / 62% full

New York City / 29 / 24 / 55% full

[Richard Wallace]

Milestone: (1100 teams found.) (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2008&area=)

Will update regional-by-regional and week-by-week figures again early next week, just before 2nd Regional registration opens.

[Mark McLeod]

200 teams ahead of this same time last year.

[Billfred]

I just combed through the latest data on FIRST's site; the magic number is now 356 (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg), a number I expect to shrink further with time.

[Richard Wallace]

Update: one more day until 2nd regional registration opens. 1148 teams have registered, bringing the total to about 66% of published capacity. As Mark pointed out earlier the number of teams registered is well ahead of this time last year.

178 rookie teams have registered so far. The most recent is FRC 2507 from Bishop DuBourg High School in St. Louis.:)

Eleven regionals are now at their published capacity: BAE Granite State, Midwest, Greater Kansas City, NASA VCU, Detroit, Florida, Oklahoma City, Boston, Hawaii, Minnesota, and SBPI Long Island. Three others are nearly full: Boilermaker, Peachtree, and Silicon Valley.

Updated regional-by-regional and week-by-week figures follow:
Regional / Attending / Open

BAE Granite State / 42 / 0
Midwest Chicago / 36 / 0
New Jersey / 39 / 14
Oregon / 22 / 32
St. Louis / 20 / 18
Week 1: / 159 / 64 / 71% full

Arizona / 32 / 22
Finger Lakes / 23 / 9
Greater Kansas City / 54 / 0
NASA/VCU Richmond / 54 / 0
San Diego / 25 / 13
Week 2: / 188 / 44 / 81% full

Boilermaker / 29 / 3
Brazil / 0 / 30
Chesapeake / 23 / 31
Connecticut / 29 / 41
Detroit / 30 / 0
Florida / 54 / 0
Peachtree / 36 / 2
Pittsburgh / 8 / 23
Silicon Valley / 38 / 2
Wisconsin / 30 / 24
Week 3: / 278 / 156 / 64% full

Buckeye / 19 / 31
Lone Star / 21 / 33
Los Angeles / 28 / 14
Microsoft Seattle / 18 / 14
Oklahoma City / 36 / 0
Davis/Sacramento / 12 / 22
Waterloo / 4 / 22
West Michigan / 25 / 19
Israel / 4 / 38
Week 4: / 167 / 193 / 46% full

Bayou / 25 / 29
Boston / 41 / 0
Colorado / 23 / 15
Great Lakes / 43 / 11
Greater Toronto / 24 / 30
Hawaii / 28 / 0
Las Vegas / 20 / 21
Minnesota / 38 / 0
Palmetto / 17 / 14
Philadelphia / 28 / 6
SBPLI Long Island / 34 / 0
Week 5: / 321 / 126 / 72% full

New York City / 35 / 19 / 65% full

[Mark McLeod]

1148 teams have registered, bringing the total to about 66% of published capacity.

It's fast approaching last year's total. I'm always interested when we get to final registration (except for those last minute 10 teams or so who finally get it together in January), how many teams have dropped out from the previous year.

We have several local teams on Billfred's list that cannot register until they pass their School Board approval cycle, so they always register late. Most of the Israeli and Brazil teams also seem to all pop-in at the last minute.

One of the oddities introduced by the published capacity of individual Regionals is that the number of teams registered for already full Regionals continues to go up as Rookie teams add-in. So team registration goes up, but isn't directly reflected by the remaining capacity %.
P.S. I just noticed that Richmond's capacity actually seemed to drop by 2.

It's still quite a guessing game for teams on the wait lists as to what the real capacity of a Regional is and what their chances are of getting in. FIRST requires Regionals to reserve more slots than are likely to be filled by Rookies, making wait lists possible. As it works now you have to talk to individual Regional Directors to know where you might stand.

[Richard Wallace]

Ten more teams have registered since my last update (this morning) bringing the total to 1158, including 185 rookie teams.

I wonder which state will have the most new teams this year?

So far Hawaii and Minnesota each show 21 rookies. Two new regionals off to flying starts ... :D

[Mark McLeod]

Yea, it looks like the state of Minnesota just registered... (1162)
..and the Minnesota rookies now lead the pack.

Somebody up there is doing a great job!

[Bill Moore]

Yea, it looks like the state of Minnesota just registered... (1162)
..and the Minnesota rookies now lead the pack.

Somebody up there is doing a great job!

Mark,

This is probably a reflection on the great FLL program in Minnesota. The students naturally want to progress on to the next level of competition. Here's the Minnesota FLL website:

http://www.hightechkids.org/

They've been top-notch for years.

[Billfred]

Second-event registration seems to have been the wake-up call; between the last update of my sheet on Sunday and the one I just did, some 56 returning teams have registered for an initial event. That means the magic number of missing teams is now an even 300 (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg) and decreasing. (Even if registration ceased today, that's a 77% retention rate.)

[Roger]

Y'know, some people (like me) watch the Weather Channel for entertainment. Somebody could make a ton of money putting this FIRST registration live on cable....

[Mark McLeod]

If my count is in the neighborhood, 68 vets didn't re-register in 2007, 101 in 2006, and 144 in 2005. Hovering around a 90% retention rate. (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Community/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Communication_Assets/2007_Archive_Assets/04_FRC_Students_LoRes.pdf) Of course some of those teams just took a year off and did reappear the following season.

Each year the number of rookies keeps climbing and the number of veteran teams lost to us keeps dropping.

We're about 70 registered rookies ahead of this same time last year. That will likely translate into an unusually large increase this year in the total number of rookies (we might hope). For the past three seasons FRC has gained ~40 more new teams over the gain of the year before (2005-208, 2006-243, 2007-286).
Predictions for fun anyone?

[Richard Wallace]

If my count is in the neighborhood, 68 vets didn't re-register in 2007, 101 in 2006, and 144 in 2005. Hovering around a 90% retention rate. (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Community/FRC/FRC_Communications_Resource_Center/Communication_Assets/2007_Archive_Assets/04_FRC_Students_LoRes.pdf) Of course some of those teams just took a year off and did reappear the following season.

Each year the number of rookies keeps climbing and the number of veteran teams lost to us keeps dropping.

We're about 70 registered rookies ahead of this same time last year. That will likely translate into an unusually large increase this year in the total number of rookies (we might hope). For the past three seasons FRC has gained ~40 more new teams over the gain of the year before (2005-208, 2006-243, 2007-286).
Predictions for fun anyone?I'll stick with my earlier (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=644459&postcount=3) prediction: 400 rookie FRC teams in 2008. If you estimate using the recent year trends that Mark provided above, my figure is about 25% higher than the extrapolation -- but I'm allowed to dream.:) There are 200 rookies registered as of this evening, and we're only about halfway through the registration period, so my dream-figure is still possible.

[Mark McLeod]

I'd go as high as 380 rookies if the "Price is Right."

Billfred's calculated 77% retention rate to-date is pretty close to the 80% retention at this same time last year. I think the retention rate in 2007 was actually ~95%, so I'll predict we'll see 95 veterans sit out this year.

[JohnBoucher]

Where do this years rookie number start?

[Billfred]

Where do this years rookie number start?
The lowest-numbered 2008 rookie (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2008&area=) is team 2230 2330, J Adams Multimedia Productions & Fletcher High School. (The highest-numbered 2007 rookie (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2007&area=) was 2287, AEP, Texas/Houston Robotics (Bezos Foundation) & Sinton High School.)

It looks like FIRST is reserving fair number of numbers for future splits.

[DanDon]

The lowest-numbered 2008 rookie (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2008&area=) is team 2230, J Adams Multimedia Productions & Fletcher High School. (The highest-numbered 2007 rookie (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&sort=teamnum&event_type=FRC&year=2007&area=) was 2287, AEP, Texas/Houston Robotics (Bezos Foundation) & Sinton High School.)

It looks like FIRST is reserving fair number of numbers for future splits.

You mean 2330? I believe 2230 is a second year team from Israel.

[Billfred]

You mean 2330? I believe 2230 is a second year team from Israel.
It's early and I'm still drying out from walking to class. (At least that's my excuse.)

2330 is correct.

[wilsonmw04]

what do you mean by: Future splits?

[Billfred]

what do you mean by: Future splits?

From http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=6632

3. Where multiple schools were combined into a single team, and that team now wants to separate into different teams, or any single team wants to separate into different teams, the new teams do not qualify as Rookies unless the requirements set forth above in 2 are met. These teams will need to register as a new team and contact FIRST at frcteams@usfirst.org for further instructions.Historically, teams that undertake such things get a number of the same vintage as their original number. FRC 22 spun off 4, which first competed in 2006, 710 spun off 744 in 2006, 386 spun off 425 in 2007, and 340 fielded second team 424 in 2007. (I imagine there are other examples; these are just the ones I recall.)

[Billfred]

I've been working on a clean-sheet list, just to make sure any earlier errors weren't compounded, and it gave me a chance to note some numbers that have popped up as new or returning this season from the sub-2330 set:

53 Last seen playing Triple Play, now registered for Chesapeake.
509 Appears to be a spinoff team, given the lack of history. (This post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=648211&postcount=12) seems to indicate they're descended from 501.) Headed for BAE.
566 Back after a season off, registered for SBPLI Long Island.
710 Also back after a season off, bound for Florida.
916 Looks like a spinoff, bound for Greater Kansas City.
972 Back from a year off, going to Silicon Valley.
1130 Like 53, last seen playing Triple Play. Bound for Oregon.
1378 Last seen in Vegas in 2005, this group of Hawaiians is bound for Oregon.
1531 Back from a one-year hiatus, going to Finger Lakes.
1988 Looks to be a spinoff, bound for Wisconsin.

Oh, and the magic number is now 289. The current retention rate is 77.8%. (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg)

[johnr]

question? if an event reads-0 pending-0 open capacity-that event is full until the december payment deadline.at that point, teams that don't pay get put on wait list. then it is a matter of getting your money in fast to get into said event. is that pretty much how it works? can you be paid and on wait list or just on wait list. is wait list available for viewing?
can you get bumped off second regional at anytime till you pay? i'm just alittle concerned that all the close by regionals are 0-0 or more pending then open capacity. does it seem regionals are filling up faster.thanks for your help.

[Mark McLeod]

The quick answer is if you really want to get in somewhere it's best to pay in advance. FIRST is also likely to be more accommodating if you do have to switch Regionals. I imagine they'll make room for you somewhere close if they have to.
There's no way to view the wait lists this year, nor a way to tell how many teams are cooling their heels on them. Only the Regional Director's are permitted to see the wait list. You could try taking one out to dinner and prying the information out of them. Even if it doesn't work the Director deserves the dinner.

Just so we're clear...

It's easier if you think of registration as involving three lists, in this order:
-- Team List = already in and guaranteed (either paid or it's your first Regional choice).
-- Wait List = paid (or first Regional choice), but waiting for additional slots to be opened up. In order of first registration or payment date.
-- Pending List = payment is pending (not an ordered list)

The use of "Pending" and the wait lists are somewhat complicated by how FIRST accepts teams as fully registered.

- first Regional
Everyone is automatically fully registered for their first Regional choice. Think of us as paid from the get-go for all intents and purposes even though we haven't written a check yet (and paid teams are not reflected by "Pending"). It's first-come though based on "Open Capacity" or rookie status. When "Open Capacity" is gone we go on the Regional "paid" wait list in the order we sign-up. FIRST has most Regionals reserve maybe double the number of slots anticipated for potential rookies, so unused slots will open up. The question always is "how many slots?" and "how many are ahead of us on the wait list?"

- second+ Regional & Championship
The "Pending" count only records teams that have signed-up for the Regional as a second+ choice (or Championships). Because, after the first Regional it's a "first-paid = first-registered" system, so payment is "Pending."
"Pending" doesn't reflect the number of teams already on the wait list for this Regional as a first choice or those who have already paid.

"Pending:0 Capacity:0"
means everyone who signed up for this Regional as their first-choice (payment isn't part of the equation in this one case) are either on the team list (Open Capacity # of teams plus rookies) or on the wait list for slots to be released. It also includes teams that registered as a second+ Regional AND who have paid.

-------------
For example, if you registered today for Hawaii as a third Regional, you would be added to the Pending count. As soon as FIRST received your P.O. or check you would be moved to the wait list behind the other teams that registered as a first Regional and teams that paid before you. The Pending count would go down by one. Finally, when the remaining unclaimed rookie slots are opened up, you might get one, the Regional Director might decide to make all the pits a little smaller to squeeze you in, or FIRST will work with you to find you space in another Regional.

By the way, you can pay for your events in any order you choose. So you might want to pay for the iffy one first to get as high on the wait list as possible. For instance, my team's funding comes from several different sources and due to agreements about who pays for what we actually paid for our Championship slot first (moving us to the Team List), and a portion of our second Regional next. Since our first Regional is already guaranteed, we can wait for the payment deadline and not risk our spot.

[Richard Wallace]

Thanks for the explanation, Mark. It agrees with the way that I understand the FRC registration process.

I should hasten to add that my understanding is based on FIRST's published (http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=468) policies and on personal conversations with others involved in planning our regional events. It is NOT an official interpretation of FIRST registration policies -- even if I knew what those really are I probably would be barred by agreement from discussing them in a public forum.

[Bob Steele]

I was wondering if anyone knows why the "wait" list is being held secret this year? I know in the past it was always interesting to see who was coming to a regional.

I was also wondering if some type of informal list might be generated here on CD so that we could see what they intentions of other teams are.

I would not mind sharing our intentions here...
Perhaps this would be better in a different thread.. should we start one?

thanks
R

[Richard Wallace]

Several posts in other Regional Competition threads already indicate some teams' tentative plans. Plans are often fluid, while teams wait to see which regionals still have open spots after their funds have become available.

I agree it would be nice to know which teams are waitlisted for which events. Maybe FIRST is experimenting this year, to determine what effect that information had in previous years by withholding it now. Or maybe someone just forgot .... :confused:

[Kims Robot]

I was wondering if anyone knows why the "wait" list is being held secret this year? I know in the past it was always interesting to see who was coming to a regional.


We got that too (this came directly from FIRST):
A team's position on a wait list depends on many different factors and we do not disclose to teams where they stand on a wait list.

From what I understand (and this is from Regional directors & Senior mentors, NOT Directly from FIRST so take it for what its worth), the waitlists are being held secret because its not done on a first come first served basis. There are a few factors (perhaps beyond what Mark mentions here) that can get you moved around on the waitlist. What I heard is things like availability of other venues, age of the team and a few other things may play as factors. I think FIRST is reserving the right to decide now, and they dont want people to complain if they see the waitlist and someone else makes it in before them.

[Mark McLeod]

If my count is in the neighborhood, 68 vets didn't re-register in 2007,...

FYI
My earlier statement was in error. I see that 112 teams went missing in 2007 for an ~91% retention rate this past season.

-----
The Regional Directors do have a difficult time of making sure there's room for local teams that cannot afford to go anywhere else, especially teams in Israel, Brazil, Hawaii who are far from alternate Regionals. Directors do have a regional focus for developing, maintaining, and expanding FIRST programs. Even veteran teams are affected periodically by advisor/administration/sponsor turnover that delays their registration and restricts their attendance at away Regionals. For instance, even under normal circumstances some teams have a long wait for School Board approval before they can register.

I don't imagine there are a lot of teams turned away though, but that may be due more to limiting expectations via "Open Capacity" as a way of discouraging too great a flood of teams into any one Regional, or otherwise convincing teams to reapply elsewhere. The Directors I know always work to accommodate everyone possible, but of course venue space limits exist. On Long Island we've had a team or two from off-island jump in at the last minute and the Director's been able to make room, but if five teams tried that some would have to be turned away.

I could see how a team that registers elsewhere first, instead of at their local regional might end up lower on the wait list than a neighboring team that can only afford one local Regional.

[Karthik]

Mark,

You pretty explained the registration process the way I understand it, but I think there are a couple slight differences.

It's easier if you think of registration as involving three lists, in this order:
-- Team List = already in and guaranteed (either paid or it's your first Regional choice).
-- Wait List = paid (or first Regional choice), but waiting for additional slots to be opened up. In order of first registration or payment date.
-- Pending List = payment is pending (not an ordered list)

You don't necessarily have to be paid to be on a waitlist. When I login to TIMS, I have the option of adding 1114 to the waitlist of any full event. I had this option before we had made any payment arrangements with FIRST for any of our events.

For example, if you registered today for Hawaii as a third Regional, you would be added to the Pending count. As soon as FIRST received your P.O. or check you would be moved to the wait list behind the other teams that registered as a first Regional and teams that paid before you. The Pending count would go down by one. Finally, when the remaining unclaimed rookie slots are opened up, you might get one, the Regional Director might decide to make all the pits a little smaller to squeeze you in, or FIRST will work with you to find you space in another Regional.

As of right now, any team who registers for Hawaii would be added to the waitlist. The pending list only accepts teams when the regional has empty spots available. For example, GLR had a pending count of 18 teams a few days ago, and 1 open spot. When that 1 open spot was filled, the pending count dropped to 0. I've spoken to a few teams who were on that pending list, and they said they've been moved to the waitlist. (I'd ask more teams, but of course the pending lists are no longer viewable)

Again, this is just my interpretation of how the process works based on what I've read, observed and have been told. I could be terribly mistaken.

/edit/

Found this on the FIRST website: http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=462


When a team selects an additional regional event and/or the Championship, the team's selection will be "pending" until a FIRST acceptable form of payment is received. Once FIRST Finance has received an acceptable payment for your team, we will move the team's event status from "pending" to "registered".
Please understand that once all event spots are filled, any of the remaining "pending" teams who have not yet paid will be moved onto a waitlist for that event (even if this should occur prior to the payment deadline of 2/01/08). Therefore, no pending spot is guaranteed until a FIRST acceptable form of payment is received. See also: FRC Payment Terms (http://www.usfirst.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=460).

[Mark McLeod]

1280 teams are registered. Less than thirty to go to match last year's total.
Teams don't seem to show up until they've been accepted into their first Regional, so there may be a bunch of teams sitting on some wait list for one of the many full Regionals. We have a couple here. Anyone else know of any teams that show up as registered, but didn't make it on to any published Regional list yet?

-----------------
Hi Karthik,

I did take some liberties in the interest of simplifying my earlier explanation.
I wasn't referring to the generic "wait list" term we see on TIMS. When we click that, TIMS lists us as payment pending anyway. It's that sub-division I'm referring to.

Sorry about mangling the example of Hawaii and the Pending count. I believe it proceeds that way, but the general public doesn't get to see the count going up and down after Open Capacity is reached.

After Open Capacity is reached and the Pending count goes to zero, FIRST calls everything not on the Team List the "wait list," however, it is my understanding that FIRST's wait list is just a common name for the paid list and the payment pending list. I bet they both still individually exist internally.
Really, just a first level division where other attributes may come into play for final team selection, as Kim referred to. I bet any pending team that pays moves to a higher spot on the wait list.

It seems reasonable for FIRST to give preference to paid entrants (or even partially paid entry fees) given how hard it is for many teams to raise the necessary cash. Just looking at last year's registration I saw a lot of teams signing up for events they didn't intend or couldn't afford to go to. I assume they were backup regionals or last minute maneuvering. Some must have been based on the hope that fundraising would go well.
I don't know what the incidence is of teams signing up and just not carrying through with payment, but awarding a spot to an unpaid team would risk wasting a slot and denying another team who could pay for it.

Anyone aware of any case of FIRST refunding payment, because a paid team didn't make it off the wait list? ;)

[Mike Betts]

Anyone else know of any teams that show up as registered, but didn't make it on to any published Regional list yet?

Mark,

As of 3:30 PM EST today, there are 33 teams wait listed for a regional but not signed up for any regional yet.

Mike

[Richard Wallace]

As of this afternoon there are 1286 registered FRC teams shown on the FIRST site.

I assume Mike's 33 team figure above is accurate although I don't know its source, so the total of registered teams is 1319, a bit ahead of last year's final total. So any increase from here on is year-over-year growth. :)

405 total registration slots are shown as available, so overall registration is at 77% of published capacity.

Seventeen regionals are now at their published capacity: BAE Granite State, Midwest, Finger Lakes, Greater Kansas City, NASA VCU, Boilermaker, Detroit, Florida, Peachtree, Silicon Valley, Oklahoma City, Boston, Great Lakes, Hawaii, Minnesota, Philadelphia, and SBPLI Long Island. The 33 teams that Mike reported above are waitlisted for one of these "filled" regionals as their first regional. An unknown number of teams are waitlisted for one of these as a second regional. And six other regionals appear likely to reach their published capacity soon, because they have more teams pending than open spots.

Adding total registrations for all regionals and subtracting 1286 leaves 87 teams that are now confirmed for a second regional, and there are 203 teams shown as pending for a second regional. Total second regional participation is hard to predict now because of the unknown number of waitlisted teams.

Regional-by-regional and week-by-week figures follow:Regional / Attending / Pending / Open

BAE Granite State / 42 / 0 / 0
Midwest Chicago / 38 / 0 / 0
New Jersey / 50 / 15 / 3
Oregon / 30 / 14 / 24
St. Louis / 30 / 17 / 8
Week 1: / 190 / 46 / 35 / 84% full

Arizona / 37 / 1 / 17
Finger Lakes / 34 / 0 / 0
Greater Kansas City / 54 / 0 / 0
NASA/VCU Richmond / 54 / 0
San Diego / 29 / 10 / 9
Week 2: / 208 / 11 / 26 / 89% full

Boilermaker / 32 / 0 / 0
Brazil / 2 / 0 / 28
Chesapeake / 39 / 11 / 15
Connecticut / 36 / 9 / 34
Detroit / 32 / 0 / 0
Florida / 54 / 0 / 0
Peachtree / 37 / 0 / 0
Pittsburgh / 12 / 16 / 19
Silicon Valley / 40 / 0 / 0
Wisconsin / 47 / 8 / 7
Week 3: / 331 / 44 / 103 / 76% full

Buckeye / 23 / 5 / 27
Lone Star / 25 / 4 / 29
Los Angeles / 35 / 8 / 7
Microsoft Seattle / 22 / 2 / 10
Oklahoma City / 37 / 0 / 0
Davis/Sacramento / 19 / 10 / 15
Waterloo / 11 / 4 / 15
West Michigan / 27 / 12 / 17
Israel / 4 / 0 / 38
Week 4: / 203 / 46 / 158 / 56% full

Bayou / 32 / 2 / 22
Boston / 45 / 0 / 0
Colorado / 32 / 4 / 6
Great Lakes / 54 / 0 / 0
Greater Toronto / 42 / 8 / 12
Hawaii / 29 / 5 / 0
Las Vegas / 23 / 9 / 18
Minnesota / 54 / 0 / 0
Palmetto / 20 / 19 / 11
Philadelphia / 36 / 0 / 0
SBPLI Long Island / 34 / 0 / 0
Week 5: / 401 / 47 / 69 / 72% full

New York City / 40 / 9 / 14 / 74% full

[Cory]

It'd be nice if they just released the wait list in numerical order from low to high. Then you see who wants to come, but have no idea of the order they are in.

[waialua359]

I agree that similar in the past, they should post the wait list, and in the order from high on the list to lowest. This would give teams an idea of whether they really have a shot of getting in or not. I know its also based on when payment is received, but still, at least it gives us an idea of who is trying to come also:D .

[Mark McLeod]

Speaking earlier of how Pending goes to zero when Open Capacity is reached I was interested to note that the Hawaii example I used seems to have been made retroactively correct.


Regional / Attending / Pending / Open
Hawaii / 29 / 5 / 0


Hawaii seems to be the only Regional where they're still posting the Pending count.

[waialua359]

Yes, the Hawaii one is a little different. They had to "fix" it this past week.:D

[Mark McLeod]

1312 teams, officially now more than last year.
177 teams ahead of this same time last year. Rookies only account for 54 of those. So far that's an 83% team retention rate bettering 1999's retention rate.

Minnesota, Oklahoma, and Hawaii lead with the most rookie teams.
Puerto Rico and several others are doing really well too. I'll have to talley them by territory/state/State.

Rookies by territory:
MN 34
OK 31
HI 21
CA 18
IL 12
AZ 11
MO 9
PR 8
WA 7
VA 6
NY 6
MD 6
MI 5
MA 5
OR 5
FL 5
PA 5
ON 3
KS 3
WI 3
NC 3
OH 3
NJ 3
IN 2
VT 2
ND 2
GA 2
NV 2
TX 2
NH 1
WY 1
SC 1
DE 1
UT 1
MS 1
QC 1
IS 1
UK 1

[Billfred]

I just now updated the missing list (my little jaunt to Brunswick Eruption ate into the time I normally use to update it); currently, the list stands at 227 missing teams (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg), an 82.55% retention rate. Getting warmer...

[synth3tk]

Whoo, this is more exciting than the NFL draft!!! Seriously, those are some nice numbers up there.

[Mark McLeod]

A rookie team from Santiago, Chile (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=2576&event_type=FRC) just registered for the Great Lakes Regional.

Thanks for the catch. I'm just hungary I guess.:)

[Richard Wallace]

A rookie team from Santiago, Chili (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=2576&event_type=FRC) just registered for the Great Lakes Regional.Great news! Now that there is a FIRST team in Chile, we will have to spell the name of that country correctly. ;)

[Richard Wallace]

Updating once again now that unrestricted registration has begun. 1365 FRC teams are registered, including 249 rookie teams. :)

21 regional events are now at their published registration capacity. They are: BAE/Granite State, Midwest Chicago, New Jersey, St. Louis, Finger Lakes, Greater Kansas City, Nasa VCU, Boilermaker, Detroit, Florida, Peachtree, Silicon Valley, Wisconsin, Oklahoma City, Boston, Colorado, Great Lakes, Hawaii, Minnesota, Philadelphia, and SBPLI Long Island.

313 published spots remain open so overall regional registration is at 83% of published capacity. (Closer to 90% for North American events.) As before, it is difficult to predict 2nd regional participation because the number of waitlisted teams is not known. However, 139 spots have been confirmed and 172 are pending for teams attending their second and third regional(s).

Regional-by-regional and week-by-week figures follow:Regional / Attending / Pending / Open

BAE Granite State / 42 / 0 / 0
Midwest Chicago / 38 / 0 / 0
New Jersey / 55 / 0 / 0
Oregon / 31 / 15 / 23
St. Louis / 37 / 0 / 0
Week 1: / 203 / 15 / 23 / 90% full

Arizona / 39 / 0 / 15
Finger Lakes / 36 / 0 / 0
Greater Kansas City / 55 / 0 / 0
NASA/VCU Richmond / 60 / 0 / 0
San Diego / 31 / 15 / 7
Week 2: / 221 / 15 / 22 / 91% full

Boilermaker / 32 / 0 / 0
Brazil / 7 / 1 / 23
Chesapeake / 49 / 10 / 5
Connecticut / 41 / 11 / 29
Detroit / 32 / 0 / 0
Florida / 62 / 0 / 0
Peachtree / 40 / 0 / 0
Pittsburgh / 18 / 13 / 13
Silicon Valley / 41 / 0 / 0
Wisconsin / 55 / 0 / 0
Week 3: / 377 / 35 / 70 / 84% full

Buckeye / 26 / 5 / 24
Lone Star / 27 / 3 / 27
Los Angeles / 37 / 9 / 5
Microsoft Seattle / 24 / 3 / 8
Oklahoma City / 38 / 0 / 0
Davis/Sacramento / 21 / 10 / 13
Waterloo / 13 / 5 / 13
West Michigan / 34 / 9 / 10
Israel / 8 / 0 / 34
Week 4: / 228 / 44 / 134 / 63% full

Bayou / 32 / 4 / 22
Boston / 45 / 0 / 0
Colorado / 39 / 0 / 0
Great Lakes / 55 / 0 / 0
Greater Toronto / 44 / 8 / 10
Hawaii / 31 / 7 / 0
Las Vegas / 27 / 11 / 14
Minnesota / 54 / 0 / 0
Palmetto / 24 / 17 / 7
Philadelphia / 37 / 0 / 0
SBPLI Long Island / 44 / 0 / 0
Week 5: / 432 / 47 / 53 / 89% full

New York City / 43 / 16 / 11 / 80% full

[Mark McLeod]

Here's the corresponding rookie count by territory: (I'm missing 3 though)
MN 36
OK 32
HI 21
CA 18
IL 12
AZ 12
MO 9
NY 9
PR 8
WA 7
VA 6
MD 6
MI 5
MA 5
OR 5
FL 5
PA 5
KS 4
WI 4
ON 3
NC 3
OH 3
NJ 4
IN 2
VT 2
ND 2
GA 2
NV 2
TX 2
NH 2
WY 1
SC 1
DE 1
UT 1
MS 1
QC 1
IS 1
UK 1
Chile 1
Brazil 1

For Long Island we are still missing one veteran team, but we've regained two vets who sat out last year (doing FVC), and we've gained three local rookies. I think the missing vet will get registered eventually too. 49% of the public high school districts have FRC teams.
The SBPLI Regional also cleared it's wait list a couple of days ago and is now at full (unpublished) capacity. We're all sucking in our guts to fit in the pits. :)

It looks like several Regionals are making their decisions and assigning final capacity for many of the wait lists.

[Billfred]

I believe that missing vet was 28, which was the last of the sub-100 teams to register.

Matter of fact, let's run the counts and see how things are faring by vintage:

Shuffle Era (1-204) 1 missing of 110 active teams in 2007 (0.91%)
1999 rookies (207-335) 0 missing of 63 (0%)
2000 rookies (337-488) 3 missing of 74 (4.05%)
2001 rookies (492-716) 10 missing of 97 (10.31%)
2002 rookies (743-999) 9 missing of 105 (8.57%)
2003 rookies (1000-1237) 16 missing of 98 (16.33%)
2004 rookies (1241-1495) 24 missing of 135 (17.78%)
2005 rookies (1501-1708) 27 missing of 155 (17.42%)
2006 rookies (1710-1980) 48 missing of 205 (23.41%)
2007 rookies (1981-2287) 54 missing of 255 (21.18%)

Not all the numbers line up perfectly; FIRST removes from the database I can see teams who haven't competed in three years (like 267 (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=267), which last competed in 2004), so the actual cutoff might be a little different. Similarly, I might've miscounted the number of active teams of a given era; feel free to check my counts through whatever black magic you like. :)

By the way, the magic number is now below 200--it's 192 (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg), making for a 85.24% retention rate at the moment.

[Mark McLeod]

FIRST removes from the database I can see teams who haven't competed in three years (like 267 (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=267), which last competed in 2004), so the actual cutoff might be a little different.
In case you feel the need, Darkjedi archives older FIRST databases and most of the old team data is still in there, such as 267 (http://www.team358.org/files/team_lookup/?id=267&name=&country_select=&country=&town=&motto=&robot=&rookie=&min_students=&max_students=&events_year=&events=&mentor=&mentee=&website=&results=Find+Team). Don't know how he's handling re-issued team numbers though.
http://www.team358.org/files/team_lookup/

[Mark McLeod]

Registration broke 1400 today.

[synth3tk]

w00t!!! Party time!!! :cool:

[Richard Wallace]

Team numbers are over the 2600 mark.

And 286 rookie teams have registered for 2008, matching the total for 2007, so it looks like another record year for new teams. :)
We still have a long way to go before 2008 rookie registration reaches my prediction.

[Mark McLeod]

Here are the rookie totals by area as of Sunday 11/18.
I only see 283 though.
Five rookies have been dropped from the FIRST database as false starts, and rookie spin-offs 509, 916, 1025, 1988.
See any I missed?

I also see 5 teams returning from a 2-year hiatus, and 8 teams coming back after taking one year off.

MN 36
OK 32
CA 24
HI 21
AZ 13
IL 12
MI 11
NY 10
MO 8
PR 8
TX 8
WA 8
MA 7
NJ 7
MD 6
PA 6
VA 6
FL 5
OR 5
KS 4
NV 4
OH 4
ON 4
WI 4
NC 3
GA 2
IN 2
LA 2
MS 2
ND 2
NH 2
VT 2
Brazil 1
Chile 1
CO 1
DE 1
ID 1
IS 1
QC 1
SC 1
TN 1
UK 1
UT 1
WV 1
WY 1

[GaryVoshol]

Here are the rookie totals by area as of Sunday 11/18.
I only see 283 though. Five rookies have been dropped from the FIRST database as false starts.
Some new teams which were originally given rookie numbers are no longer classified as rookies. For example, our new team was originally registered as 2331, but when FIRST determined we were not a rookie team because we had students who had already been on a team, we were given the unused number 1025.

[Mark McLeod]

Thanks, that explains why I saw some teams disappear and the non-rookie, rookies appear. I still listed you as a new team, aka "non-rookie rookie" for the purpose of my count.

Some new teams which were originally given rookie numbers are no longer classified as rookies. For example, our new team was originally registered as 2331, but when FIRST determined we were not a rookie team because we had students who had already been on a team, we were given the unused number 1025.

P.S.
I keep waiting for that big block of Israeli teams to suddenly register...

[Swan217]

Some new teams which were originally given rookie numbers are no longer classified as rookies. For example, our new team was originally registered as 2331, but when FIRST determined we were not a rookie team because we had students who had already been on a team, we were given the unused number 1025.

See, that's just not fair. 1188 goes under, and you guys get your number UPGRADED by 163 points? What is this world coming to? :rolleyes:;)

(Seriously, I like it better this way. Stops the hyperinflation of rookie numbers.)

[Richard Wallace]

With less than a week to go before payment deadline (Dec. 3) most of the regionals are at their published capacity. 1460 FRC teams have registered.

Thirteen regionals with published spots still available are: Oregon (Week 1), Arizona (Week 2), Brazil and Connecticut (Week 3), Buckeye, Lone Star, Microsoft Seattle, UC Davis Sacramento, Waterloo, and West Michigan (Week 4), Israel (Week 4+), Bayou, Las Vegas, and Palmetto (Week 5). Many of these are likely to reach published capacity soon because they have more teams pending than published spots available.

Also, FIRST appears to be closing in on two milestones: nearly 100 international teams have registered (incl. 60+ from Canada), and nearly 300 rookie teams have registered. And once again, every US state has registered at least one FRC team. :)

[Richard Wallace]

Sorry for double posting; a election-year idea came to me.

Last year I posted a list of US states sorted by the number of FRC teams per million residents. This year, a more interesting metric might be the number of teams per Electoral College Vote (ECV) -- a measure of political opportunity!

As of this morning, US average is 2.53 registered FRC teams per Electoral College Vote. Five states have more than twice the national average: New Hampshire, Michigan, Hawaii, Oklahoma, and Minnesota.

State Teams ECV Teams per ECV
NH 29 4 7.25
MI 115 17 6.76
HI 26 4 6.50
OK 42 7 6.00
MN 52 10 5.20
MA 55 12 4.58
VA 58 13 4.46
MO 49 11 4.45
CT 31 7 4.43
NJ 59 15 3.93
KS 23 6 3.83
NY 113 31 3.65
AZ 36 10 3.60
CO 31 9 3.44
NV 17 5 3.40
OR 22 7 3.14
WI 28 10 2.80
MD 27 10 2.70
SC 21 8 2.63
CA 138 55 2.51
IN 27 11 2.45
WA 25 11 2.27
PA 47 21 2.24
DC 6 3 2.00
ID 8 4 2.00
MS 12 6 2.00
LA 17 9 1.89
IL 37 21 1.76
FL 46 27 1.70
GA 25 15 1.67
ND 5 3 1.67
OH 32 20 1.60
ME 5 4 1.25
TX 41 34 1.21
AK 3 3 1.00
DE 3 3 1.00
MT 3 3 1.00
VT 3 3 1.00
WV 4 5 0.80
RI 3 4 0.75
WY 2 3 0.67
NC 9 15 0.60
UT 3 5 0.60
AL 4 9 0.44
IA 3 7 0.43
NM 2 5 0.40
SD 1 3 0.33
TN 3 11 0.27
NE 1 5 0.20
AR 1 6 0.17
KY 1 8 0.13
PR 8 0

Total 1362 538 2.53

[Mark McLeod]

This year's 300 Spartans come from:

MN 36
OK 32
CA 28
HI 21
MI 15
AZ 13
IL 12
NY 10
MA 8
MO 8
PR 8
TX 8
WA 8
NJ 7
ON 7
PA 7
MD 6
VA 6
FL 5
OH 5
OR 5
KS 4
NV 4
WI 4
NC 3
GA 2
IN 2
Israel 2
LA 2
MS 2
ND 2
NH 2
QC 2
VT 2
Brazil 1
Chile 1
CO 1
DE 1
ID 1
Mexico 1
SC 1
TN 1
UK 1
UT 1
WV 1
WY 1

[Richard Wallace]

This year's 300 Spartans ...This is an impressive list. :)

277 US rookie teams representing 38 states, and 23 international rookie teams representing 7 countries. May fortune favor the bold!

Make that 285 US rookie teams representing 38 states and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and 15 international rookie teams representing 6 countries.

[Cynette]

This is an impressive list. :)

277 US rookie teams representing 38 states, and 23 international rookie teams representing 7 countries. May fortune favor the bold!A good exercise to keep us up on our geography! Four of the countries were spelled out. It was a challenge to look at the list of state abbreviations and figure out which ones actually were not states, but two letter representations of another country. :) And then have the discussion among yourselves...is it 6 or 7? When is a country not a country?

[GaryVoshol]

This is an impressive list. :)

277 US rookie teams representing 38 states, and 23 international rookie teams representing 7 countries. May fortune favor the bold!

A good exercise to keep us up on our geography! Four of the countries were spelled out. It was a challenge to look at the list of state abbreviations and figure out which ones actually were not states, but two letter representations of another country. :) And then have the discussion among yourselves...is it 6 or 7? When is a country not a country?

The question is really whether it is 23 international rookie teams or not. But those 23 teams do represent 7 countries.

[Richard Wallace]

A good exercise to keep us up on our geography! Four of the countries were spelled out. It was a challenge to look at the list of state abbreviations and figure out which ones actually were not states, but two letter representations of another country. :) And then have the discussion among yourselves...is it 6 or 7? When is a country not a country?

The question is really whether it is 23 international rookie teams or not. But those 23 teams do represent 7 countries.I was wrong. It's six countries: Israel, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, The United Kingdom, and Canada. Those six are represented by 15 rookie FRC teams.

The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico) is part of the United States of America, so those 8 rookie teams should be counted as US teams -- as they are in my earlier post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=653917&postcount=71).

[Cynette]

I was wrong. It's six countries: Israel, Brazil, Chile, Mexico, The United Kingdom, and Canada. Those six are represented by 15 rookie FRC teams.

The Commonwealth of Puerto Rico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico) is part of the United States of America, so those 8 rookie teams should be counted as US teams -- as they are in my earlier post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=653917&postcount=71).
Aww, you gave it away! :p

[Richard Wallace]

Aww, you gave it away! :pWhile we've been off on this geographic tangent, several more rookie FRC teams have joined the fray in Texas, Oregon, Canada, and California. 300 Spartans is a nice round number, but 300+ is even better. Mark's list is sure to need revision early next week.

[Richard McClellan]

With less than a week to go before payment deadline (Dec. 3) most of the regionals are at their published capacity. 1460 FRC teams have registered.


That's just the deadline for registration right? Payment is not due until Friday, December 7th, correct?

[Mark McLeod]

I'll refrain from updating that 300 post. I just like the number.
I'll do another after registration closes.

Yes, the payment due date is later, and I expect exceptional circumstances will have a few payments actually arriving even later than that. I think last year the final total dropped by 20 or so teams that couldn't pull it together, but I don't think the final, final team list was completely settled until the Regionals began.

[Richard Wallace]

That's just the deadline for registration right? Payment is not due until Friday, December 7th, correct?Correct (http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=454). December 3rd is the last day to register. FIRST might begin assigning previously reserved spots to waitlisted teams after that.

December 7th is the payment deadline.

[Mark McLeod]

The net gain in teams (169) just surpassed last year's net gain (168). Still missing more '07 vets (148) than I would have expected by this time, however, Israel usually has a block of teams that all register late together.
We have regained 13 veterans who didn't play in 2007-eight sat out 2007, five haven't played since 2005. I've watched other pre-2007 teams register, only to drop off the radar again, but they're trying.

Here's where the veterans are missing from (call a team near you to see what help they need and share your enthusiasm!):

United Kingdom 1 (London)

Mexico 1 (state of Mexico)

Brazil 5
RS 3
SP 1
SE 1

Canada 13
ON 12
BC 11

Israel 22
Northern 11
Central 6
Southern 4
Tel Aviv 1

United States 106 (including the country of DC)
CA 13
MA 8
MI 8
GA 7
MT 7
FL 6
VA 6
MO 5
NJ 5
AZ 4
CO 3
IL 3
MD 3
DC 2
ID 2
LA 2
OH 2
OK 2
PA 2
SC 2
TN 2
WA 2
CT 1
KS 1
NC 1
ND 1
NM 1
NY 1
OR 1
SD 1
TX 1
UT 1

[Pat Fairbank]

Here's where the veterans are missing from (call a team near you to see what help they need and share your enthusiasm!):

...
Canada 18
ON 12
BR 5
BC 1
...

I'm slightly confused - I'm not aware of a province or territory here in Canada with the code 'BR'. Could those perhaps be the Brazilian teams?

[Mark McLeod]

It's a very little recognized territory north of Yukon (yea, that's the ticket...)

I fixed that. I think my brain glosssed over it as New BRunswick

Thanks Pat

[Madison]

It's a very little recognized territory north of Yukon (yea, that's the ticket...)

The abbreviation BR would simply be the shortened version of BRRRRRRR, in such a case.

[synth3tk]

I fixed that. I think my brain glosssed over it as New BRunswick
Right, because it couldn't be your lack of geographical knowledge. (j/k, please don't hunt me down!) :D

[Mark McLeod]

Right, because it couldn't be your lack of geographical knowledge. (j/k, please don't hunt me down!) :D
I can only hurt you if I can find Ohio...what country is that?

[Richard Wallace]

I can only hurt you if I can find Ohio...what country is that?I'll try to help you out there, Mark. You're in New Jersey, right? OK. Cross the Delaware River -- like General Washington, but going the opposite direction. That will put you in Pennsylvania, which a large quasi-rectangular region. Go west until you get to the other end. (If you find yourself in Baltimore, you took a wrong turn.) Pittsburgh will be on your right, but don't go there. Cross the state line and you're in Ohio. :)

You'll have to stop and ask for directions if you want to get back home. ;)

[Madison]

I'll try to help you out there, Mark. You're in New Jersey, right? OK. Cross the Delaware River -- like General Washington, but going the opposite direction. That will put you in Pennsylvania, which a large quasi-rectangular region. Go west until you get to the other end. (If you find yourself in Baltimore, you took a wrong turn.) Pittsburgh will be on your right, but don't go there. Cross the state line and you're in Ohio. :)

You'll have to stop and ask for directions if you want to get back home. ;)

If Pittsburg(h) is on his right and he crosses the state line, he'll actually end up in West Virginia. :)

[EricH]

I'll try to help you out there, Mark. You're in New Jersey, right? OK. Cross the Delaware River -- like General Washington, but going the opposite direction. That will put you in Pennsylvania, which a large quasi-rectangular region. Go west until you get to the other end. (If you find yourself in Baltimore, you took a wrong turn.) Pittsburgh will be on your right, but don't go there. Cross the state line and you're in Ohio. :)

You'll have to stop and ask for directions if you want to get back home. ;)I think you need to brush up on your geography, Richard--he has to go through Manhattan and Staten Island to get to New Jersey. (Unless, of course, there's a ferry directly from Long Island.) So, it's cross the Hudson and go west. If you find yourself in a big lake, go a little bit south to get away from it, then turn west again until you're over the state line...

[synth3tk]

Go Greyhound, And Leave The Driving To Us! :p

[Richard Wallace]

If Pittsburg(h) is on his right and he crosses the state line, he'll actually end up in West Virginia. :)

I think you need to brush up on your geography, Richard--...OK, you both caught me. I was trying to get Mark lost by telling him to keep Pittsburgh on his right, but not to go there. Following that advice, he would end up circling Pittsburgh forever, and would never reach Bedford, Ohio. So David (blakcheez) would be safe. :)

[synth3tk]

Hehe, I'm safe anyway. When you get here, what would happen nex-- nevermind, I'll stop while I'm ahead. :D

Back on topic... I seriously want our team to attend Conneticut(sp?) but I'm sure we won't. Regardless of that, I'm planning on visiting other (relatively) local regionals just for fun.

[Mark McLeod]

In the interest of geographical enlightenment and to keep Cynette amused I also updated my last list with all the states, provinces, territories of every FIRST country. The counts are a little out of date now but I left them alone.



Let's see if you're still laughing when that haggis arrives on your doorstep at Christmas. And you thought fruitcake was all you had to worry about!

Hehe, I'm safe anyway. When you get here, what would happen nex-- nevermind, I'll stop while I'm ahead. :D

[Richard Wallace]

... he has to go through Manhattan and Staten Island to get to New Jersey. (Unless, of course, there's a ferry directly from Long Island.) So, it's cross the Hudson and go west. If you find yourself in a big lake, go a little bit south to get away from it, then turn west again until you're over the state line...

... Let's see if you're still laughing when that haggis arrives on your doorstep at Christmas. And you thought fruitcake was all you had to worry about!Haggis, you say? Well, as a descendant of the Braveheart, I would not want David to miss out on haggis.

So here are some updated directions for reaching Ohio from your locale:

From Hauppauge take route 347 northeast to Port Jefferson and board the ferry for Bridgeport, Connecticut. From Bridgeport, follow route 25 to Upper Stepney, and from there proceed northwest to Dodgingtown where you will turn to the west on route 302 to Danbury. Then take Interstate 84 west to Scranton, where you will turn southwest on Interstate 81 and follow that until it meets Interstate 80 just north of Hazelton. Follow Interstate 80 all the way to the Cleveland area, turning northwest on Interstate 480 which will lead directly to Bedford. Deposit the haggis on David's porch, then retrace your route back to Long Island as fast as you can. :)

[JohnBoucher]

Haggis, you say? Well, as a descendant of the Braveheart, I would not want David to miss out on haggis.

So here are some updated directions for reaching Ohio from your locale:

From Hauppauge take route 347 northeast to Port Jefferson and board the ferry for Bridgeport, Connecticut. From Bridgeport, follow route 25 to Upper Stepney, and from there proceed northwest to Dodgingtown where you will turn to the west on route 302 to Danbury. Then take Interstate 84 west to Scranton, where you will turn southwest on Interstate 81 and follow that until it meets Interstate 80 just north of Hazelton. Follow Interstate 80 all the way to the Cleveland area, turning northwest on Interstate 480 which will lead directly to Bedford. Deposit the haggis on David's porch, then retrace your route back to Long Island as fast as you can. :)

Sorry Richard, This is a FIRST Road Trip...
Get off the ferry in Bridgeport, take Rt 8 North past FRC 230 (Gaelhawks),
take a left at FRC 237 (TRIBE) :D , drive past FRC 2064 (Southbury), then into Penn.
Mark... Stop by and we'll give you cookies for the trip

[Cynette]

In the interest of geographical enlightenment and to keep Cynette amused I also updated my last list with all the states, provinces, territories of every FIRST country. The counts are a little out of date now but I left them alone.

Let's see if you're still laughing when that haggis arrives on your doorstep at Christmas. And you thought fruitcake was all you had to worry about!Wow! And you thought I got you off track! :ahh:

Although I know the veiled threat wasn't for me, I'll pass on the haggis too, thank you. Although I'm usually up for trying most things at least once... Other unique Scottish blends would be welcome though. ;)

[artdutra04]

Sorry Richard, This is a FIRST Road Trip...
Get off the ferry in Bridgeport, take Rt 8 North past FRC 230 (Gaelhawks),
take a left at FRC 239 (TRIBE) :D , drive past FRC 2064 (Southbury), then into Penn.
Mark... Stop by and we'll give you cookies for the trip(Highlight is mine)

Team 239?!! :yikes:


Although if they're coming up to New England, after visiting the GaelHawks in Shelton, they could take Route 34 to Route 15 which would bring them to Meriden, home of GUS, (FRC) Team 228 / (FTC) Team 10. From there, they could go five minutes north, northwest, or west and come across teams 155 (Techno Nuts), 195 (Cyber Knights), or 999 (C.R.A.S.H.) respectively. From there, they could go west along the Meriden-Waterbury Turnpike, which would bring them through Wolcott, home of Team 1071, MAX.

From there, they could continue west to Watertown to visit FRC Team 237 (TRIBE) and resume their normally scheduled tour.

[Richard Wallace]

Looks like Mark is going to need some extra haggis for all those stops in New England. No FIRST team should miss the opportunity ...:)

[Mark McLeod]

Somehow, there always seems to be plenty of haggis left over whenever we serve it. Even at Robert Burns dinners. So one might do for the whole trip, very similar to fruitcake in that respect. I love it though, so I get to finish it up.
I'll start with John's cookies though. I've always been of the opinion that desert, as the most important part of any meal, should come first.

But since you'd like to try some other Scottish dishes Cynette I'll whip up some blood pudding especially for you.

Looks like Mark is going to need some extra haggis for all those stops in New England. No FIRST team should miss the opportunity ...:)


Although I know the veiled threat wasn't for me, I'll pass on the haggis too, thank you. Although I'm usually up for trying most things at least once... Other unique Scottish blends would be welcome though. ;)

[EricH]

Shouldn't he also take a little side trip to North Dumpling Island, if he's crossing Long Island Sound to CT on a FIRST road trip?:rolleyes:

[Richard Wallace]

Shouldn't he also take a little side trip to North Dumpling Island, if he's crossing Long Island Sound to CT on a FIRST road trip?:rolleyes:That's only a little bit out of his way. After visiting several CT FIRST teams, Mark could take the ferry from New London out to Fishers Island, rent a boat and make the short (~2 mile) voyage out to North Dumpling?

For some haggis, maybe Dean will give Mark an early game hint ... ;)

[Billfred]

Geography aside, we're down to 140 missing teams by my data (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg). We're inches from the 90% retention mark at 89.24%, a number I expect to climb a bit as the deadline approaches (and hopefully not shrink as the payment deadline hits).

[KathieK]

Mark, as long as you're venturing into Connecticut on the way to Ohio (is ANYTHING on the way to Ohio????) be sure to take the trip on the Saturday after FRC ship and stop by Manchester, CT, home to FRC 809 TechnoWizards, and the new FTC team from Manchester High School, and join us for a few hours at the FTC Championship Tournament. :)

[Mark McLeod]

1505 teams are registered!
A net gain of 204 teams over last year.
Greatest % gain since the 2004 season.

15 vets returning after 1 year off (10) or 2 years off (5)

322 Rookies.

MN 37
OK 32
CA 30
HI 21
MI 16
AZ 14
IL 13
NY 11
Canada 10 (ON 8, QC 2)
TX 10
PA 9
MA 8
MO 8
PR 8
WA 8
NJ 7
MD 6
NC 6
OH 6
OR 6
VA 6
FL 5
KS 4
NV 4
WI 4
Brazil 3
Israel 3
GA 2
IN 2
LA 2
MS 2
ND 2
NH 2
SC 2
VT 2
Chile 1
CO 1
DE 1
ID 1
ME 1
Mexico 1
TN 1
United Kingdom 1
UT 1
WV 1
WY 1


I plan to sleep the whole Saturday after ship :)

P.S. Numbers are still changing a day after Registration closed. They just won't quit...

[KathieK]

I plan to sleep the whole Saturday after ship :)Why sleep when you can come to a FIRST event (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=59863)? :D

[Mark McLeod]

Numbers will still be changing, but for the 1505 teams registered today here is where they are all from, and also how many '07 teams have disappeared this year from that same place. Several areas have recruited enough new teams to fully populate whole new regionals.


Current # '07
# Teams Teams Lost
CA 144 12
MI 116 8
NY 114 1
NJ 60 4
VA 58 6
Canada 64 13 (ON = 57/12, QC = 3/0, AB = 2/0, BC = 2/1)
MA 54 8
MN 53 0
MO 49 5
PA 49 2
FL 47 5
TX 46 1
OK 42 2
IL 38 3
AZ 37 4
OH 37 0
CO 32 2
CT 31 1
NH 29 0
MD 28 3
WI 28 0
IN 27 0
HI 26 0
GA 25 7
WA 25 2
KS 23 1
OR 23 1
SC 23 1
Israel 22 15
LA 17 2
NV 17 0
Brazil 13 5
MS 12 0
NC 12 1
PR 10 0
ID 8 2
ME 6 0
DC 5 2
ND 5 1
United Kingdom 5 1
AL 4 0
WV 4 0
AK 3 0
DE 3 0
IA 3 0
MT 3 7
NM 3 0
RI 3 0
TN 3 2
UT 3 1
VT 3 0
Mexico 2 1
WY 2 0
AR 1 0
Chile 1 0
KY 1 0
NE 1 0
Netherlands 1 0
SD 1 1

[Alan Anderson]

Several areas have recruited enough new teams to fully populate whole new regionals.

For example, look at the Minnesota Regional (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teamlist&event=MN&sort=teamnum). Of the 54 teams listed, all but ten have a team number greater than 2000. Only one has less than a three-digit team number, and 30 teams are 2008 rookies.

[Cory]

Wow, check out Israel. They lost nearly half their teams (15 out of 37) this year. That's really too bad. Does anyone know why so many dropped out? Did the money available the first 2 years dry up?

[Mark McLeod]

I hope most of them are simply very late in registering. In years past they have had a habit of all showing up at the last minute.

[Richard Wallace]

Microsoft is sponsoring the 2008 Israel Regional, and President Shimon Peres has made some public appearances in support of FIRST very recently. Given that kind of high-level support, it is likely that funding will be found for veteran Israeli FRC teams to continue this year.

[ChuckDickerson]

According to the FIRST Calender of Important Deadlines (http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=454)"Registration closes - Ends on line - 03-Dec-2007" which was yesterday. What exactly does this mean? Can a team still register for additional events just not online or are the events now "locked"? I have never been part of the registration process so I don't know how it works. I am just wondering because there still seems to be a lot of open slots at some regionals and a lot of teams are still working to raise funding. I can't imagine why registration would be closed for events that don't happen for another 3 or 4 months when there are slots available. What actually closed yesterday and when is the real drop dead last day to register for an event?

[Mark McLeod]

Several teams have appeared on the registered list after yesterday's deadline, but they may have already been in process. Extensions may have been granted due to this past weekend's database failures too.

We probably all know of FIRST working with teams up to the last minute when they have difficulty raising funds, so the payment deadlines can certainly be flexible as long as FIRST staff is involved early on. I can easily believe there are extenuating circumstances where FIRST will work with a team to bring them in, in spite of the Registration deadline.

In the case of the Israeli teams I have to consider that anything is possible if a large number of teams are affected and you have the support of the Regional Director behind you.

I have seen teams register for an additional Regional after the deadline (pretty late too), however, I don't know any background details. For instance, they might have paid for another Regional, but were shutout. As long as FIRST and the Regional Director can be talked into letting them in anything is possible.

P.S. There is still some setting going on. Five more rookies appeared on 12/5, four rookies disappeared, several missing vets registered, several vets de-registered, etc.

[Jon236]

The Israeli teams are unfortunately affected by the on-going high school teacher's strike. Hopefully this will be solved before kickoff! We are looking forward to making the most out of Microsoft's kind support.

Many teams in Israel continue to meet and plan despite the strike. Can we start a roll-call of Israeli teams that are active?

[Bomberofdoom]

Team 2230 Zcharia's Angels from Handasaim-Herezliya High School is active. :]

[yara92]

Hallow our Friends!
I hope all of you are OK. We are the teachers in Israel have our own problem, which I believe it will be solved. But we have a mission we don’t forget our children. We remember:
“ …to create a world where science and technology are celebrated….
where young people dream of becoming science and technology heroes….”
Dean Kamen, FIRST Founder
The delay is matter of registration.
Mohamed- Team 1946

[johnr]

december payment deadline has passed. can we read anything into the team lists now. does no openings mean only saved rookie spots might open? is atlanta's team list just teams that have paid? thanks for any answers.

[synth3tk]

Atlanta's team list is just an indicator of which teams have "paid" their way in. Regional champions and award winners will always have a spot indefinitely.

As for reading into the team lists, I would say yes, but with caution. There still may be things happening behind-the-scenes that will either drop or add a team, or group of teams like in Israel.
For the most part, though, that's the final list.

[yara92]

I just now got Google Docs to play nice again, and I updated the spreadsheet to see who's left.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg

Currently, 551 teams have yet to register. 857 teams have registered overall, including rookies and teams coming off inactive status. (I noticed that 710 registered for Florida--has anyone else caught teams on the rosters making a comeback?)

Team 1946 Reg Missing??
we had registerd.
Mohamed- Team 1946

[Billfred]

Team 1946 Reg Missing??
we had registerd.
Mohamed- Team 1946
That spreadsheet hasn't been updated in a week and a half. Some teams have obviously registered since then--I'll have an update later today.

Edit: Actually, how about now (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p1cILXUy2xl0raZMKkEdMNg)?

[Mark McLeod]

The team list has been quite volatile since registration closed. It's gone as high as 1510 back down to 1495, to 1503, to 1500,...
Growth this year is right in line with the past two years.

[Mark McLeod]

Although the list of registered teams still changes daily it looks like the Israeli teams have largely recovered.

Since Registration officially closed Dec. 3, 25 rookies have appeared while others have vanished from the list. Missing '07 vets finally made it, but other veterans have disappeared.

2007 teams are missing from:

CA Count 14
ON Count 11 Canada
MA Count 10
MI Count 8
GA Count 7
MT Count 7
FL Count 6
MO Count 6
VA Count 6
IS Count 5 Israel
AZ Count 4
BR Count 4 Brazil
IL Count 4
CO Count 3
MD Count 3
DC Count 2
ID Count 2
LA Count 2
OK Count 2
PA Count 2
TN Count 2
WA Count 2
CT Count 1
KS Count 1
MX Count 1 Mexico
NC Count 1
ND Count 1
NH Count 1
NJ Count 1
NY Count 1
OH Count 1
OR Count 1
RI Count 1
SC Count 1
SD Count 1
TX Count 1
UK Count 1 United Kingdom
UT Count 1

[DarkJedi613]

I realize I'm a bit late with all of this -- but I read through this thread and decided to go through our database with the team info. Some strange things happen before teams were given permanent numbers (which I think was in 1998?) -- I'm missing some data. But all the data after that should be pretty stable. Anyway I've made up a page with # of rookies for each year and retention rates. The row is the year you're looking at (i.e. the row 2006 refers to the 2006 season). Then each column is the number of teams (out of the original # of teams) that participated in that season. So for row 2006, column 2000: then 271 of the 372 teams from the 2000 season also participated in the 2006 season for a rentention rate of 72.849%. Note: the list of # of rookie teams is based off registration -- not whether they participated in an event or not.

Available here:
http://www.team358.org/files/team_lookup/track_teams.php.htm

(P.S. The team search is updated on our website -- http://www.team358.org/files/team_lookup/)

[Mark McLeod]

A question in another thread made me remember to come back here and add a final footnote to the registration story.

The final team appeared on the registered list January 15.
About 25 teams, give or take, joined the final registered list after the December 3 deadline.
Quite a few teams dropped out after the deadline. They were just not able to pull it together.