pic: Game hint

[vivek16]

well, it is a sunday so our school is closed and mail/fedex doesnt work on sunday? correct me if im wrong.

-vivek

[WillItBlend]

Nah, didn't you hear? Dave isn't even in the GDC this year.

-vivek

EDIT: :p

EDIT2: You know you are addicted to FIRST when you have been sitting here on the gaem hint page for 7 hours on a sunday...

XD You know youre addicted to first when Chief Delphi is on your FireFox bookmarks toolbar.

[EricH]

well, it is a sunday so our school is closed and mail/fedex doesnt work on sunday? correct me if im wrong.

-vivek
Correct.

[vivek16]

waait a minute... Is that piece of paper in the picture smaller than 8x11? I hope so. Other wise those led's must be huge!

-vivek

[vivek16]

Correct.

in that case, Most teams that have not gotten them might have not gotten them due to the fact that fedex doesn't work on Sunday. Give it a few days before assuming its a hoax guys.

-vivek

[Richard McClellan]

Just to toss one more against the hoax theory, I just looked at the email headers on the blast, and they're exactly the same as any other, so it's an official blast. So at this point it's either legit, or Joe's one heck of a hacker with lots of inside help, etc. etc. So I think Occam's Razor should really put all the paranoia to bed at this point and let us get on with our rampant speculation.

So has anyone else wondered what the big white connector is for? I'd be able to make a more intelligent guess if I had the board in front of me, but I've a sneaking suspicion it's the programming interface. So if this was for reading a field element, setting up a robot would be as easy as plugging in a programming cable during inspection.

But how can it be an official email blast? I'm the alternate contact for my team and did not receive an email. I've received every other email that has been sent to frcteam@usfirst.org, but not this one :( I want one of these things soooo badly now....

[vivek16]

ok, Im going to get off CD for a day or two until our team can confirm this thing.

-vivek

[fimmel]

XD You know youre addicted to first when Chief Delphi is on your FireFox bookmarks toolbar.
or your homepage for firefox xD

[teh_r4v3]

That white 6-pin connector looks like it might be a standard ICSP connector, used for programming the PIC. This opens up the possibility of loading custom code onto the board, but I have a feeling that FIRST won't allow that.

[Aren_Hill]

Oh and Kate Pilotte was in charge of the 07 K.O.P.
our team 1625 and 111 wildstang attended a sensor expo summer of 2006.
While we were there I knew she was hunting around for sponsors so being my curious self i kept a close eye on who she talked to;) .
The second day of it however we had our oh so brilliant minded animator (also my arch enemy:D ), was the only person who could go and he didn't keep an eye on her!! so if he had payed attention that day we may know the exact background of this thing. CURSE YOU PETE!!! (buddyb309)

[Donut]

Ah, another fun game hint (or what appears to be one) only a few weeks before kickoff, just to torment us all further. Who else loves the Christmas season?

Now, my weigh ins on some previously mentioned ideas as well as my own...

1. Although cool, I don't see this as an inter-robot communication device. Each alliance would be limited to only 4 signals they could send between the robots, and for them to mean anything, there would have to be a universally adopted code between all teams in FIRST. Every team would have to know that receiving a COM0 signal means "head to left side of field", "score gampiece", "inflate clown balloon", etc. To be honest that seems like a rather boring use of signals, as only four commands for the whole alliance doesn't give many options in terms of what to do.

2. Is this the end of the CMUCam? With the success and usefulness it's gained in more recent auto-modes, I don't see the camera ever leaving competition permanently, but I do think FIRST could take a break from it. The camera has already been mastered by a few teams, and alot have it working, even if the rest of their auto isn't up with it. I see a departure from cameras for a few years in favor of IR challenges, such as back in 2004, so everyone has a challenge again. Then once we've all figured this one out we may go back to the cameras, combine them both, or go on to something else new.

3. If FIRST does actually intend on using remote controls with these (not just as a test method), they will have to supply their own special controllers at competitions. Otherwise the risk is too high that two teams will bring the same remotes and use the same buttons, which would guarantee interference. Human players directing robots with remote controls would be interesting, perhaps a section of the field will be obscured from driver view or will have driver control removed so that only the remote may operate the robot? I hope such a system wouldn't be implemented in autonomous mode, as this would defeat the point of it (something about no human control...).

4. I keep having a leering suspicion of something akin to a game suggestion I made last year, involving goals with lights above that didn't turn on to indicate which alliance they scored for until autonomous began. Imagine four goals on the field each with an IR emitter that doesn't activate until autonomous begins. Two goals send out a signal indicating red goal, while the other two send out signals to signify a blue goal. Which goals score for which alliance are random each match, making a dead reckoning autonomous potential suicide in which you score 20 points for your opponents. Visual alliance indicators are then revealed after autonomous so teams that don't attempt to find the signal may still score in operator mode.

Unlike 2004 when teams had to figure out which emitter they were looking at themselves, FIRST is already giving us the tools to distinguish between multiple IR transmissions on field. Sounds like they must want us to use it for something, all will be explained on January 5th, but I really don't want to wait quite so long.

[Tottanka]

4. I keep having a leering suspicion of something akin to a game suggestion I made last year, involving goals with lights above that didn't turn on to indicate which alliance they scored for until autonomous began. Imagine four goals on the field each with an IR emitter that doesn't activate until autonomous begins. Two goals send out a signal indicating red goal, while the other two send out signals to signify a blue goal. Which goals score for which alliance are random each match, making a dead reckoning autonomous potential suicide in which you score 20 points for your opponents. Visual alliance indicators are then revealed after autonomous so teams that don't attempt to find the signal may still score in operator mode.


That souns very cool. I really hope it's something like that!

[rspurlin]

I'm one of the alternates for our team and I did receive the email. I checked the message headers and it does appear to originate from FIRST. It will be tomorrow before I can check at the school to see if we've received a package.

I don't think this is a hoax, although how relevant it will be to the 2008 game is yet to be seen.

[Akash Rastogi]

ok, Im going to get off CD for a day or two until our team can confirm this thing.

-vivek

Vivek, we all know that doing this is physically impossible.:p
Anyone thinking Wii nunchuck controlled robots? :rolleyes:

[Tottanka]

Vivek, we all know that doing this is physically impossible.:p
Anyone thinking Wii nunchuck controlled robots? :rolleyes:
How about Guitar Hero guitars controlled robots? How cool would that be!

[ggoldman]

Hey CD!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I have a cool idea (which probably is a couple years away in terms of FIRST actually doing it..but MAYBE it will be for this year.)

FIRST becoming economical....VIRTUAL GAME PIECES

Even though FIRST usually has their game pieces at least partially donated by supplier partners, a very interesting concept to me would be virtual game pieces.

Imagine a game in which there are four locations on the field with integrated IR signal emitters that give out a red, blue, green, or yellow signal (for example) when a robot comes up to it with their IR receiver.

Once the team is within range of the receiver, the signal is picked up by the robot and a beacon (maybe like a LED light on the robot) lights up the color given out by the IR signal. This is equivalent to a Virtual Game Piece.

Bringing the virtual game piece to the correct colored goal scores a point.

Advantages of this idea:
1) no need for game pieces....(Saves LOTS of money for teams and FIRST)
2) instant score board updates (since it is all controlled by the IR signals)
3) Game is different every time since you might not know which color you will get at each station.

Disadvantages:
1) Not sure if we will have IR transmitters too...to send the goal the scoring info.
2) Unlikely that FIRST will ever get rid of a real game scoring piece...this might be used for a bonus or big point objective.


As always...I am probably over analyzing the situation...but thats what I do best:)

-Gabe G.

[vivek16]

Vivek, we all know that doing this is physically impossible.:p
Anyone thinking Wii nunchuck controlled robots? :rolleyes:

sigh... I guess you are right.

:D -vivek

[lukevanoort]

How about Guitar Hero guitars controlled robots? How cool would that be!
cough (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27814)

[vivek16]

Hey CD!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I have a cool idea (which probably is a couple years away in terms of FIRST actually doing it..but MAYBE it will be for this year.)

FIRST becoming economical....VIRTUAL GAME PIECES

Even though FIRST usually has their game pieces at least partially donated by supplier partners, a very interesting concept to me would be virtual game pieces.

Imagine a game in which there are four locations on the field with integrated IR signal emitters that give out a red, blue, green, or yellow signal (for example) when a robot comes up to it with their IR receiver.

Once the team is within range of the receiver, the signal is picked up by the robot and a beacon (maybe like a LED light on the robot) lights up the color given out by the IR signal. This is equivalent to a Virtual Game Piece.

Bringing the virtual game piece to the correct colored goal scores a point.

Advantages of this idea:
1) no need for game pieces....(Saves LOTS of money for teams and FIRST)
2) instant score board updates (since it is all controlled by the IR signals)
3) Game is different every time since you might not know which color you will get at each station.

Disadvantages:
1) Not sure if we will have IR transmitters too...to send the goal the scoring info.
2) Unlikely that FIRST will ever get rid of a real game scoring piece...this might be used for a bonus or big point objective.


As always...I am probably over analyzing the situation...but thats what I do best:)

-Gabe G.

while this would be pretty cool: rookies would have a harder time with it maybe. It would be WAY less interesting to watch from an ordinary nonfirster's point of view.

-vivek

[Josh Fox]

Anyone thinking Wii nunchuck controlled robots? :rolleyes:

Wii want to play... wii want to play very very badly:D

[RKElectricalman]

maybe 4 LED's mean 4 team on the field as opposed to 6!

meaning possibly a 2v2 instead of a 3v3 or maybe even a free for all with 4 robots?

So 4 unique commands for 4 unique robots?... maybe? :confused:


*Edit* 4 "receiving" LEDS + Error LED *edit*

[Elgin Clock]

CMD0? Are our robots going to be running around without any underwear this year?

LMAO!!!!!

Now the hard part will be deciding whether to name our robot Britney, Beyonce, Paris, or Lindsay!!!!!! :rolleyes:

They tell us rhyming riddles, post crazy images, and send us things to examine.
I have a feeling that next year the hint will be to stick your hand in a box like those Halloween games where you put your hand in dog food or something and you have to guess what it is. :p (but of course instead there will be distorted melted things that disappear after a minute just to make it more complicated. lol)

One of those pictues that you have to stare at for a few minutes before you see a 3D image would be cool as well. lol

[clydefrog88]

i was thinking of an explanation the email not being the usual FIRST email blast. Perhaps, if the email's were indeed falsified, the perpetrator(s) searched the CD members list for those listing their team role as a mentor, and sent the supposed FIRST email to them (accounting for alternate contacts who have not received the email). The email inconsistency and the fact that i cannot navigate to the circuit board documentation using the FIRST site (I can only get to it through the URL in the picture) both keep me hesitant to totally believe this is the real deal. But then again, maybe it is.

[AndyB]

Hey CD!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I have a cool idea (which probably is a couple years away in terms of FIRST actually doing it..but MAYBE it will be for this year.)

FIRST becoming economical....VIRTUAL GAME PIECES

Even though FIRST usually has their game pieces at least partially donated by supplier partners, a very interesting concept to me would be virtual game pieces.

Imagine a game in which there are four locations on the field with integrated IR signal emitters that give out a red, blue, green, or yellow signal (for example) when a robot comes up to it with their IR receiver.

Once the team is within range of the receiver, the signal is picked up by the robot and a beacon (maybe like a LED light on the robot) lights up the color given out by the IR signal. This is equivalent to a Virtual Game Piece.

Bringing the virtual game piece to the correct colored goal scores a point.

Advantages of this idea:
1) no need for game pieces....(Saves LOTS of money for teams and FIRST)
2) instant score board updates (since it is all controlled by the IR signals)
3) Game is different every time since you might not know which color you will get at each station.

Disadvantages:
1) Not sure if we will have IR transmitters too...to send the goal the scoring info.
2) Unlikely that FIRST will ever get rid of a real game scoring piece...this might be used for a bonus or big point objective.


As always...I am probably over analyzing the situation...but thats what I do best:)

-Gabe G.

I agree. Seems like a lot of effort for so little purpose... Also, commenting on people's ideas of "robots going from station to station to get data to score points": would that not be the most boring game you've ever seen. Seriously, if that was the game, I'd cry. I can just see it now... everyone sitting in the stands and an announcer trying to sound enthusiastic about a robot getting data...

That's about as exciting as making a sandwich... or maybe thinking about making a sandwich...

My point. That would work about as well as Dave getting excited about virtual Krispy Kremes.

[dlavery]

My point. That would work about as well as Dave getting excited about virtual Krispy Kremes.

hey - Dave gets excited about ANY Krispy Kremes!!!

http://epicurious.blogs.com/features__editor/images/2007/07/11/krispy_kreme_glazed_doughnut.jpg

-dave



.

[Libby K]

I don't think this is a hoax, although how relevant it will be to the 2008 game is yet to be seen.

How do we know this is a hint for 2008?

Seriously. Knowing the GDC (or specifically, Dave...)

also...
Maybe the fact that only some people have gotten it has to do with their status? Who's paid for their events?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

hey - Dave gets excited about ANY Krispy Kremes!!!

http://epicurious.blogs.com/features__editor/images/2007/07/11/krispy_kreme_glazed_doughnut.jpg

-dave



.
That kind of looks like a boiled bagel, Dave. Sorry, but I just cannot trust your googling abilities anymore.

[fimmel]

i was thinking of an explanation the email not being the usual FIRST email blast. Perhaps, if the email's were indeed falsified, the perpetrator(s) searched the CD members list for those listing their team role as a mentor, and sent the supposed FIRST email to them (accounting for alternate contacts who have not received the email). The email inconsistency and the fact that i cannot navigate to the circuit board documentation using the FIRST site (I can only get to it through the URL in the picture) both keep me hesitant to totally believe this is the real deal. But then again, maybe it is.
my mom got the email and she dosent have an account on here, and is the secondary contact for a rookie team....so unless they had a list of tims contacts theres no way they could spoof that...

[clydefrog88]

hmmm, i couldn't think of any other way that some TIMS contacts would not recieve a supposed email blast.

[efoote868]

ah man. finals this week. Looks like i won't think at all about this... unless we get one. Then i'm going to be the one thinking all about this. ouch.

Well, it looks like the breadboard companion I soldered up for my digital electronics class, with its leds. Tell me its something more exciting though.

[Elgin Clock]

Oh btw I believe the other end of the cable is an exact replica, so maybe thats how FIRST saved money on shipping these out, they just snipped these in half lol.

Have you ever tried to put a cable assembly back together that has been simply "snipped in half". I work at a place where we make cable assemblies for all kind of companies including FIRST sponsors & supporters and leaders in technology like Harris, Raytheon, DEKA, & more, and we make terminated (ie: snipped) cables for specific reasons that the customers request of us.

If your theory is correct, I doubt we will get the other half, but rather a full cable with a mystery connector on the other end.

EDIT2: You know you are addicted to FIRST when you have been sitting here on the game hint page for 7 hours on a sunday...

That's kind of sad. No offense.

wait a minute... Is that piece of paper in the picture smaller than 8x11? I hope so. Other wise those led's must be huge!

It looks square. 8x11 is not square. lol

But how can it be an official email blast? I'm the alternate contact for my team and did not receive an email. I've received every other email that has been sent to frcteam@usfirst.org, but not this one :( I want one of these things soooo badly now....

hmmm, i couldn't think of any other way that some TIMS contacts would not recieve a supposed email blast.

What if this item was only sent to certain teams? I don't know why that would be, but I remember our team signing up for experimenting with a board from National Instruments a few years ago. Maybe they selected teams who would receive this board this year by a lottery of past electrical based award winners & people who signed up to use that expierimental software as well back in the day?
AKA: Rookies need not apply?*** :o I don't know. It doesn't sound like the "level playing field advantage" that every team has had in the past if it is in fact part of the 2008 competition, but if not every team has gotten one or will not be getting one then maybe that explains it? idk.

We got one of the 2008 boards btw.

also...
Maybe the fact that only some people have gotten it has to do with their status? Who's paid for their events?
That could be a factor as well. Good thought Libby. Just one more thing to think about when teams say they haven't gotten theirs yet.

*** See below post.

[Libby K]

Okay, so I already posted this but it's been zipped by...

also...
Maybe the fact that only some people have gotten it has to do with their status? Who's paid for their events?

[vivek16]

That's kind of sad. No offense.


eh... none taken... I think...

-vivek

[fimmel]

What if this item was only sent to certain teams? I don't know why that would be, but I remember our team signing up for experimenting with a board from National Instruments a few years ago. Maybe they selected teams who would receive this board this year by a lottery of past electrical based award winners & people who signed up to use that expierimental software as well back in the day?
AKA: Rookies need not apply. :o I don't know. It doesn't sound like the "level playing field advantage" that every team has had in the past if it is in fact part of the 2008 competition, but if not every team has gotten one or will not be getting one then maybe that explains it? idk.

We got one of the 2008 boards btw.


That could be a factor as well. Good thought Libby. Just one more thing to think about when teams say they haven't gotten theirs yet.
then how come my mom got an email and shes the alt contact for a rookie team?

[synth3tk]

How do we know this is a hint for 2008?

Seriously. Knowing the GDC (or specifically, Dave...)

also...
Maybe the fact that only some people have gotten it has to do with their status? Who's paid for their events?
Both valid points.

As for the "virtual gamepieces" idea, I'm not a fan of it, at all. When I first attended the Buckeye Regional with my dad, I had never even thought about robots before then. After seeing these machines built by highschoolers doing cool stuff was what fascinated me, and now I'm very active on my team. No offense, but had I watched a competition about us getting certain data or whatever, I would have steered clear for the rest of my life, maybe a load of other students. In fact, I think FIRST wouldn't have survived after the first year of doing so.

[diesel]

2008 is going to be my second season on a FIRST team and will also only be the second year our school has a team. My question: Why take up 19+ pages on guesses?

Just to waste time?
or
Just for fun?

I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:

[Elgin Clock]

then how come my mom got an email and shes the alt contact for a rookie team?


Hmm.. I see. So maybe just a regular lottery of all participants in '08, or some people just haven't gotten theirs due to weather, or normal shipping restraints.

I'm now happy to know Rookies were not excluded in the gift. :cool:

2008 is going to be my second season on a FIRST team and will also only be the second year our school has a team. My question: Why take up 19+ pages on guesses?
Just to waste time?
or
Just for fun?
I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:

I'm sorry, but was that a serious question? :confused:
Sorry. Couldn't resist asking that. Just play along with it. It's fun.
The seemingly simple explanation I can think of is FIRST (as a whole organization) has liked to generate a "BUZZ" about the new game before it's been released for quite a number of years now. Some great things come out of the discussions, even if they don't come to be a part of the game this year.
I'm guessing the GDC has even maybe gone back to these hint threads, and pulled some feasible items or actions for future games from the guesses.
In any case, it gives us a change to chat about the new game before we're all too busy building robots & our stress levels are up. We may get stressed about the hint, but you shouldn't.
It's the calm before the storm, aka: The 6 weeks of hell! :eek:

[fimmel]

2008 is going to be my second season on a FIRST team and will also only be the second year our school has a team. My question: Why take up 19+ pages on guesses?

Just to waste time?
or
Just for fun?

I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:
no fun waiting IMHO lol. and for me its only 4 (50 posts per page or something) xD...

but ya its too long of a wait till the 5th

[synth3tk]

2008 is going to be my second season on a FIRST team and will also only be the second year our school has a team. My question: Why take up 19+ pages on guesses?

Just to waste time?
or
Just for fun?

I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:
It's my first year on CD, second year in FIRST. Last season, after we had our first meeting in December, January 5th took too long. This lots of fun for most of us. Will we even come close to guessing the game or what this is for? Probably not. But it's cool to see all the different views and opinions on something so simple. Some people posted stuff I've never thought of, and maybe the GDC will use some of the musings here in future games or rules.

[vivek16]

I think that dave might have influenced those people at the GDC a bit too much... :p

-vivek

p.s. I still think that you kids should wait a couple of days before jumping to conclusions. Maybe the email list got cut off, maybe only some teams got the boards because of their location, maybe everyone will get the boards if you waited a couple of days.

[DonRotolo]

2008 is going to be my second season on a FIRST team and will also only be the second year our school has a team. My question: Why take up 19+ pages on guesses?

Just to waste time?
or
Just for fun?

I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:
Seriously? Can't be.

Speculation, particularly wild (but plausible) speculation is what makes this kind of thing fun. Kind of like science fiction.

We're creative types, but with a engineering bent, so speculating excites the creative juices and satisfies the need to be creative. But geeks have their limits.... Also, don't take stuff so seriously.

If this doesn't make sense, then I have some puzzlement.

Don

[JaneYoung]

I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:

True story - 2007 - I was sitting in the stands with 1902 as their team mates competed on Einstein with their alliance partners. A few rows down from me sat KathieK and a few rows down from her sat Dave. As I watched the teams competing, I thought about a clue we received right before the start of the 2007 season. It was an interesting clue and KathieK and I exchanged a couple of PMs. She wondered if I saw fingers in the clue. Nope, I didn't see any fingers.

Wrong.

I sat there absorbing the moment with a 2nd year team and a loud contagious cheer, thinking about the very beginning of the incredible season, starting with a mysterious clue - and all I could do was smile.

[David Brinza]

None of the Team 980 contacts (Main, Alternate/Shipping) have received the e-mail or circuit board itself. We did have an issue with a payment from a non-profit org to FIRST not being credited because our team number wasn't on the check, but that was resolved last Tuesday.

We'll wait until next Wed. to contact FIRST. Perhaps by then, the "hoax" will have been uncovered or everyone officially registered will have received their "December gift".

Either way, this exercise shows just how hungry we all are for next season's challenge!!

[Big Kid]

2008 is going to be my second season on a FIRST team and will also only be the second year our school has a team. My question: Why take up 19+ pages on guesses?

Just to waste time?
or
Just for fun?

I don't see the reason for the guessing. We'll all find out what it is soon enough. Right?:confused:

Wrong, honestly i'm a rookie and the whole Jan 5th excitement has already gotten to me, I've spent idk 6-7 hrs on this board and I spent all morning trying to confirm this as an offical FIRST object, which right now is my decision that it is an offical object (after i think 3 DNS traces, and a few IP traces), and yea i've gone somewhat sleep less on thinking on what the game might be this year.

[Libby K]

Wrong, honestly i'm a rookie and the whole Jan 5th excitement has already gotten to me, I've spent idk 6-7 hrs on this board and I spent all morning trying to confirm this as an offical FIRST object, which right now is my decision that it is an offical object (after i think 3 DNS traces, and a few IP traces), and yea i've gone somewhat sleep less on thinking on what the game might be this year.

To all the rookies reading this:

Welcome! This is the beginning of the end. Game Hint Season.
[credit to Michelle Celio for naming the next 2 weeks.]

[Big Kid]

To all the rookies reading this:

Welcome! This is the beginning of the end. Game Hint Season.
[credit to Michelle Celio for naming the next 2 weeks.]

im used to the whole beginning of the end thing was part of FLL for 2 years until my school stopped it but the Hint Season is just downright currently nerve wrecking. :D but im keeping my cool from jumping all over the place.

As for my rookie game theory, im working on it.

[Kristian Calhoun]

Welcome! This is the beginning of the end. Game Hint Season.
[credit to Michelle Celio for naming the next 2 weeks.]

Season's Greetings 2008 FRC Teams:

...game hint season of course...
Emphasis mine. :rolleyes: :p

[Cooley744]

my guess is beachballs.

[Blue_Mist]

Our team's paid for everything (I think), but it is a Sunday, so... that leads to more indecision. We haven't gotten either a board or an email, and we aren't rookies. And I don't think FIRST would do anything not to keep the field as level as possible. Will each team post whether they've gotten their's?

[vivek16]

lol

this is my FIRST "game hint season"... I'm pretty excited.

last year, I found out about the program so late that there was no build up. nobody know about it at all. rookie team. premeeting, workshop at the U of Minnesota, kickoff, boom...

-vivek

[ggoldman]

I think i know who dave really is.....

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/560/davedonutsru5.th.png (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=davedonutsru5.png)


Virtual DONUTS!!!

hey - Dave gets excited about ANY Krispy Kremes!!!

http://epicurious.blogs.com/features__editor/images/2007/07/11/krispy_kreme_glazed_doughnut.jpg

-dave



.

[Elgin Clock]

lol

this is my FIRST "game hint season"... I'm pretty excited.



Ahem. "...game hint season..."

Don't forget the 3 periods on either side of the statement as laid out in the e-mail. It could be relevant. ;)

[sishu7]

I've gotten a hint...

Can't comment on who said it, but I asked an insider "have you started building the field yet?"

I got the answer, "Actually, there isn't much to build..."

??? Any speculations combining this with the mysterious item received?

[Libby K]

Emphasis mine. :rolleyes: :p

Yes, but michelle said it first. Promise.

[sishu7]

C'mon... it's a decent hint (OK, not really). But it's something, right?

Where is all that FIRST creativity and speculation?

[Richard McClellan]

i was thinking of an explanation the email not being the usual FIRST email blast. Perhaps, if the email's were indeed falsified, the perpetrator(s) searched the CD members list for those listing their team role as a mentor, and sent the supposed FIRST email to them (accounting for alternate contacts who have not received the email). The email inconsistency and the fact that i cannot navigate to the circuit board documentation using the FIRST site (I can only get to it through the URL in the picture) both keep me hesitant to totally believe this is the real deal. But then again, maybe it is.
Nope, I'm the alternate contact and my team role is listed as "Mentor" and I didn't get the email. Also, I think it would be very difficult to extract email addresses from user profiles.

also...
Maybe the fact that only some people have gotten it has to do with their status? Who's paid for their events?
This could probably be the reason. Our team has gotten either official or unofficial confirmation of the $6000 regional payment for BAE Systems, but the funds have not actually gone through yet and our status is still "Registered" but "Unpaid." Of the teams that didn't get the email and/or package...is this true for you too?

[EricH]

Nope, I'm the alternate contact and my team role is listed as "Mentor" and I didn't get the email. Also, I think it would be very difficult to extract email addresses from user profiles.Easy to send an email via the profiles, but it would come from a chiefdephi address. No hoaxer would dare to do that if he was serious.

I think it has something to do with having paid.

[sishu7]

I've gotten a hint...

Can't comment on who said it, but I asked an insider "have you started building the field yet?"

I got the answer, "Actually, there isn't much to build..."

??? Any speculations combining this with the mysterious item received?

PLEASE...

I'll start. The piece sent to us goes on the robot, and interacts with field elements. The field is almost solely this, and so more software than hardware-based.

OR there is some device above some small central scoring location, but most of the challenge has to do with easily gotten manipulatives (beach balls, whatever)

Yes, I'm bad at theories.

Anyone?

[joeweber]

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Community/FRC/FRC_Documents_and_Updates/2008_Assets/FIRSTIR%20-%20Instructions%20_121007.pdf
Do you think it will use the back up battery , and will we still use the camera with it.

[synth3tk]

I've gotten a hint...

Can't comment on who said it, but I asked an insider "have you started building the field yet?"

I got the answer, "Actually, there isn't much to build..."

??? Any speculations combining this with the mysterious item received?
ha. haha. Nice "hint" dude. It would take someone all of five minutes to create and validate a new account. ha. ha ha ha. GET TO DA CHOPPER, NOW!!!

[joeweber]

could the came peice have an area that you must trigger with the ir sensor, and it will change the lights from red to blue or blue to red? We may have to fight over getting to that spot to trigger it.

[wilmo]

air game anyone?

I like the laser-tag like game or the one where we tag bases with the ir, but very very very simple bots for that

[T3_1565]

I don't see a laser tag game, strictly based on the fact it would be boring for spectators to watch, I don't think it's a piece at all, but I do like the idea of it sending red / blue signals in auto so you having to find out which goal is yours

[synth3tk]

It IS the game piece!!! First team to destroy it with it's IR beam wins. Bonus points to the first alliance who can clean up the tiny fragments. Good luck, volunteers. No special handling instructions will be sent. God Speed.

[Akash Rastogi]

It IS the game piece!!! First team to destroy it with it's IR beam wins. Bonus points to the first alliance who can clean up the tiny fragments. Good luck, volunteers. No special handling instructions will be sent. God Speed.

lmao, ...nice

[vivek16]

It IS the game piece!!! First team to destroy it with it's IR beam wins. Bonus points to the first alliance who can clean up the tiny fragments. Good luck, volunteers. No special handling instructions will be sent. God Speed.

lol... wouldn't a concentrated flame thrower be considered an IR "beam"? sweet.:cool:

[legomaster3945]

im so happy yet sad
i have to wait another day for game hint because it was just anounced we have no school tommorow
but im happy cus of no school
now i get another day to ponder bout the hint for a whole day :)

[blaxbb]

lol... wouldn't a concentrated flame thrower be considered an IR "beam"? sweet.:cool:

i don't think Most Innovative Flamethrower Design is part of the message FIRST is trying to send :yikes:

[Chaos Marine]

so this is the offical game hint hmmm. What to do? what to do?? time to sound the alarms boys and girls its time to turn your motors on and get to thinkin how we are going to do this. Now that this is step 1, what will be step 2?...

[Arefin Bari]

what will be step 2?...

... sleep for the next 20 days. =)

[sishu7]

Don't laugh at me!

[vivek16]

hope for a riddle as a second gaem hint. :cool:

-vivek

[sishu7]

"Anonymous" message...

[1359th Scalawag]

From what I read on the First website about it, it seems to be a remote-sensor. They say it can be used with universal remotes and such. First thing that comes to mind, is that you would install one of these in your garage door to be able to open it with a remote. Other possibilities could be televisions or whatever.

But a guess to what the game could be about: Each team's human player gets a remote which can only open one door (or possibly do some other things) And they could open and close that door for whatever strategic reasons... And that's as great of a guess you're ever gonna get out of me. :p

[Frank Neuperger]

Perhaps game pieces will have IR emiters and the points earned depends on which peice you capture/deposit/neutralize. i.e. 4 different points values.. one for each code. This device can help you sort out or decide which game piece to go after.

[BanksKid]

We are given a rainbow ribbon wire for an infrared receiver, am i the only one who thinks the absence of ultra violet means something?

perhaps ultra violet is supposed to clue us to some sort of sun related theme or game piece.

ultra violet isn't a directly visible frequency of the emag spectrum.

[JBotAlan]

Since I was bored today by the snow day (and it's only 8:30 am...) I whipped up a driver for this board in case we end up needing to put it on the robot.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60170

JBot

[T3_1565]

lucky you for snow days I can't even get on delphi for more than the time I'm on it right now lol. at least you can think about the game hint :(

[wilsonmw04]

so from what i've read, either there is going to be a new way of controlling our robots this year or some sort of IR emitter will be part of the game. here's the questions i have:
1. Why would they send us "teaching instructions" if the IR frequencies are going to be controlled by the field?
2.If IR is going to be a field element, are we going to be use the remotes for practice?
3. Why hasn't my team received ours yet??

[Stephen Kowski]

OK, so since I was bored, and looking at the pic of the board for quite some time.. I decided to google some random things and see what I can find.

The order of the D codes above the LED's is D2, D5, D4, D3 & then D1.


I wouldn't think too hard on this, almost every electrical engineering software product just autonumbers depending on which Diode you place first. They aren't "D-codes" it is just how you represent Diode1 and Diode2 on a schematic.

[T3_1565]

well I can try to answer that for you.

1.Teaching instruction can be so you can set-up your own field much like every other year (the KOP came with cathodes last year to set up your own field)

2. If the competition were, say, switching the goal colours during the match, you would have to have something to switch your own colour on your own field.

3. We haven't got it ethier :(

[MrForbes]

1. Why would they send us "teaching instructions" if the IR frequencies are going to be controlled by the field?
2.If IR is going to be a field element, are we going to be use the remotes for practice?
3. Why hasn't my team received ours yet??

1. The IR frequencies might be controlled by the field, but you can't play with the board and get it working unless you can use it with whatever controller you happen to have laying around...so you need to be able to "teach" it. And perhaps the field personnel or someone else will have to "teach" it something before the competitions or matches.

2. Good question!

3. Same reason our team has not received ours yet....that's how the shipping process works. This is a fun way to teach us patience.

[fimmel]

ill find out tonight if we got ours :)

[GaryVoshol]

Our senior mentor forwarded the email; she didn't mention if she got a package.

[JesseK]

My apologies if this has been previously stated, but I read through 11 pages of this thread and concluded that you guys talk ALOT.

Is this legit?
The unfathomable scenario of a late or forgotten part in the KOP would have been discovered probably in this exact time frame, probably just after they shipped some of the KOP boxes off to their coinciding Kickoff venues. At this point, someone at FIRST got the bright idea to turn this logistical blunder into one of the best-conceived baiting game hints ever.

However it's also interesting (but maybe coincidental) that this is released the weekend before the end of registration for new teams.

My hypothesis is that it's for 4 different light colors and will replace or enhance that hard-to-calibrate green light/CMUCam setup.

[Elgin Clock]

I wouldn't think too hard on this, almost every electrical engineering software product just autonumbers depending on which Diode you place first. They aren't "D-codes" it is just how you represent Diode1 and Diode2 on a schematic.

Me? Think too hard? Never. lol
Ask anyone who knows me, that's not my style.
:p :rolleyes:

I was just having some fun with numbers. I could pull a million little "facts" like this from just looking at the board & Googling things (and I have), but thought the levels connection would stir up some lively conversations. :D


By the way, what are the chances this intergrates with the USB chicklet?
Any takers on that theory, or is it even possible to use both simutaneously in a system of some sort?

[JBotAlan]

By the way, what are the chances this intergrates with the USB chicklet?
Any takers on that theory, or is it even possible to use both simutaneously in a system of some sort?

You can use them simultaneously, depending on what you do with them. The chicklet doesn't care what it controls; it just translates digital into analog. The IR board, if used for the robot at all, very likely will not be connected to the OI at all. So it is just another sensor on the robot. It won't integrate with the Chicklet--the Chicklet only knows about USB; the IR board is just a single pulse on a wire.

I'm really, really interested to see how this ties in. It would be really cool to interface with on the robot...especially if the alpha-quality code I wrote this morning actually works with it flawlessly...:D

JBot

[pschre]

We are given a rainbow ribbon wire for an infrared receiver, am i the only one who thinks the absence of ultra violet means something?

perhaps ultra violet is supposed to clue us to some sort of sun related theme or game piece.

In light of the fact (no pun intended...ok maybe pun intended) that we've been mailed an actual component instead of a cryptic riddle or image, I think that mostly everyone is totally justified in speculating what the IR sensor means in terms of its function & possible applications...

But I can't shake the feeling that a symbolic reading of the thing, like Simon says, might turn out to have value, too, though it may be a longshot. I dunno, maybe I'm just stubborn to adjust to this hands-on hint style, but I wouldn't put it past the GDC to pack some symbolism into these lovely December gifts. That said, I have nothing else to add to the ultraviolet interpretation. (Except...Milla Jovovich...)

Other peoples' ideas that I think I like (forgive me for no citation):

1) The 4 signals could mean more than one autonomous task during the game, at certain times during a match the field would switch all robots to another channel...but my issue with this is that multiple autonomous options is probably beyond the capabilities of a fair # of teams...maybe there would be other tasks for robots who aren't packing multiple autonomous modes, and those robots' channel 3 would just remain driver control, for example. But then that's a LOT of stuff going on in every match...

2) The 4 signals could determine zones, a la 2002's Zone Zeal except not pre-determined zones. And for teams that don't capitalize on using this IR board, since it's not characteristic of FIRST to make aspects of the game that some teams will be totally shut out from doing (any previous use of the camera or IR follow-the-line sensor in autonomous could attempt to be mimicked by a dead reckoning autonomous), maybe after some seconds have elapsed, whatever invisible indication has been given via IR will become visible for everyone else.

Maybe, the zone layout will be concentric circles, and/or IR transmitters on the field will be positioned like planets...and/or the IR transmitter will be in the center of the field and whatever goals/scoring elements will be scattered around like planets. I'm just grasping at the aforementioned possible Sun idea.

[Kevin Sevcik]

And now for some anti-speculation of sorts. In my opinion, this isn't going to be useful outside of autonomous mode. Or at least only marginally useful. Why? because if it was exceedingly useful outside of autonomous, it would have to be indicating something on the field that drivers and the audience couldn't see. And any scoring method or game influencing state that's invisible to the audience will drive them absolutely batty and quickly frustrate them. Similarly, I fully expect that whatever this indicates during autonomous mode will be readily apparent to spectators. And thus could be potentially determined by the robot by other means. It's just that those other means are probably going to be a lot more complex and less reliable.

This is all assuming, of course, that this is something we put on the robot to find out about something on the field.

[MrForbes]

This is all assuming, of course, that this is something we put on the robot to find out about something on the field.

That's right, it could just be overstock that they are giving away because no one will buy it :)

[EricH]

Is this legit?This was discussed in about the first 11 pages. Consensus is that it is legit. The main reason for thinking it isn't is that some teams don't have theirs yet.

[Elgin Clock]

Anyone thought of the possibility of a IR sensor on the robot to see in darkened conditions?
This would cut some costs as far as field lighting is concerned as well. :yikes:
Rather than making a target of some kind brighter (ie: going from a painted green panel to a bright light), do the opposite, & make the field darker.

In the past a lot of technology that has been introduced in the kit is a low cost and/or stripped down version of what the big names in science & technology have used.
(oh.. i don't know.. like NASA for instance?) ;)


On that note, do some googling of the word "QWIP" & "NASA".
Some interesting stuff happening there, even if it isn't directly tied in with what we will be doing with IR.

But who knows for sure? :confused:



I'll tell you who knows.
The Shadow knows! :rolleyes:

[rees2001]

Strangely I got the e-mail for 1 of my 2 teams that I am the team leader for. I Used to get 2 of every e-mail now I only get 1. It may be because we still have to pay for the second team. I called our receiving department today to see if I got it & the FedEx truck hasn't come in yet. I'll let you know if & when it/they come in.

As for the uses... we'll see.

[T3_1565]

In my opinion, this isn't going to be useful outside of autonomous mode.

I completely agree with this statement. I can see it being a replacement for the camera so that more and more teams can do auto mode (as far as I have heard this thing is easier to program) I can also see it being used for bonus points (end game).

If we end up having a game with invisible pieces or invisable zones or what-not, the crowd will not being nearly as "in to it" as they normally are.

[Pavan Dave]

I completely agree with this statement. I can see it being a replacement for the camera so that more and more teams can do auto mode (as far as I have heard this thing is easier to program) I can also see it being used for bonus points (end game).

If we end up having a game with invisible pieces or invisable zones or what-not, the crowd will not being nearly as "in to it" as they normally are.

I think this is the 3 colored light thing from '06 ATL. I think that the IR will be for robots and that the "signals" (light, radio, etc.) that the field piece(s) will give off will not be consistent throughout game play. Anybody find this a reasonable assumption?


/Pavan

[JesseK]

I completely agree with this statement. I can see it being a replacement for the camera so that more and more teams can do auto mode (as far as I have heard this thing is easier to program) I can also see it being used for bonus points (end game).

If we end up having a game with invisible pieces or invisable zones or what-not, the crowd will not being nearly as "in to it" as they normally are.

They might make a zone that's visible to the crowd but not visible to the players, or one that's very obscurred for the players (i.e. they can see where their robot is but not what it's picking up)

This was discussed in about the first 11 pages. Consensus is that it is legit. The main reason for thinking it isn't is that some teams don't have theirs yet.

Sorry, of course it's legit ... just trying to offer a practical conspiracy theory for the timing and content of the clue.

[Storcky]

I'm not sure this is possible, but it would be pretty cool for spectators (not really drive teams) if the virtual pieces showed up on the video, but not on the field.

I'm not sure if we have a board yet or not. We should have a meeting tonight to find out.

Official word says that Israeli teams will only get this at the kickoff..... :ahh:

This should help you on the speculating side I guess... It can't be that critical to send it out early if the ~40 teams here don't et it till the kickoff...

-Leav
How do you know this? I agree that it can't be that important if so many aren't getting it, but knowing that other people have it and we don't yet is driving me crazy!:ahh:

EDIT:
They might make a zone that's visible to the crowd but not visible to the players, or one that's very obscurred for the players (i.e. they can see where their robot is but not what it's picking up)

You beat me to it.

[Sparks333]

Looking at the picture, I think this may be a field element. As a sensor for the robot, is really is rather large and bulky - like the camera, but with twice as much space taken up for diagnostics. Secondly, I can't see this being used for homing of any kind whatsoever - there is only one sensor on it, and it doesn't give signal strength, just whether or not it sees something. That doesn't lend itself to differentiation, therefore, no homing. IR homing is a pain anyway, so no real loss. Just my $0.02

[Kevin Sevcik]

Looking at the picture, I think this may be a field element. As a sensor for the robot, is really is rather large and bulky - like the camera, but with twice as much space taken up for diagnostics. Secondly, I can't see this being used for homing of any kind whatsoever - there is only one sensor on it, and it doesn't give signal strength, just whether or not it sees something. That doesn't lend itself to differentiation, therefore, no homing. IR homing is a pain anyway, so no real loss. Just my $0.02
It's like 3" by 1.5". I don't think it's really that big for putting on the robot. And if it's a field sensor, why hand it out? And where are the transmitters we'll be putting on the robots? Unless the challenge this year is for the robot to punch buttons on a universal remote. In a specific pattern..... Wait. Are we finally being tasked with the holy grail of robotics? Do we get to design robots that will program VCRs and thus end the scourge of blinking "12:00" LEDs in living rooms across the world?

[Ben Piecuch]

In my opinion, this isn't going to be useful outside of autonomous mode. Or at least only marginally useful. Why? because if it was exceedingly useful outside of autonomous, it would have to be indicating something on the field that drivers and the audience couldn't see. And any scoring method or game influencing state that's invisible to the audience will drive them absolutely batty and quickly frustrate them. Similarly, I fully expect that whatever this indicates during autonomous mode will be readily apparent to spectators. And thus could be potentially determined by the robot by other means. It's just that those other means are probably going to be a lot more complex and less reliable.

I find it hard to believe that FIRST would go through the trouble of making this component, and then only using it for Autonomous. Here's a little history to prove this.

In '04, our first year with a "targeted" Autonomous, the game was poorly designed and didn't take advantage of this target after autonomous.

In '05, we "could" have used the camera for more than autonomous, but again, the game design didn't lend itself to using it.

In '06, the target was highly used by most successful teams in both autonomous and during the human operated period, and clearly communicated to the audience which team was allowed to score.

In '07, the target was again highly used by most successful teams in autonomous, and was designed to have been used during the game as a scoring aide. I'm not sure how many teams used it outside of autonomous.

In '08? Why would FIRST design a game that only allowed the use of this technology in a finite amount of time? Why wouldn't they want us to use it for the entire match? I think (okay, hope) that they've figured out how to properly integrate this in with the rest of the game. How they may have done that, well, that's their secret for a couple weeks. Whether it requires audience feedback is a different story. I'm wondering if this is going to replace the CMUCamera, or be an addition to it.

BEN

[T3_1565]

And if it's a field sensor, why hand it out?

I believe it's handed out:
a) so you can make your own field (much like the cathodes we got last year) and
b) as a clue, as far as I can tell (I may be completely wrong) the clues for the past couple of years (last year for sure) the clue has been something about the field elements.

Does anyone know where I can find previous years hints/clues???

[Elgin Clock]

Does anyone know where I can find previous years hints/clues???

An almost complete list.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50885&highlight=clues

[Ian Curtis]

Don't laugh at me!

My hint is real, told to me by a our regional FIRST co-ordinator. If you don't believe me, fine... it's your loss.

Either you'll eat your words when you see the field, or our co-ordinator is having a great laugh at my expense (which is not really like her...)

In order to know the game before Kickoff, there's a pretty hefty Non Disclosure Agreement that goes along with it. Your Regional Coordinator probably isn't authorized to give hints, as the only meaningful one is from the GDC as a whole (despite the fact that we rip through everything Dave says).

But additionally, I wouldn't be surprised if there was very little on the field. In 2005 the field was a bunch of PVC lengths and some special pieces to fit them together. In 2002 the field was 4 goals on casters and a bunch of soccer balls.

FIRST had a thing for mobile goals for a very long time, and I only got one year of them. I'd kind like it if we got some more to play with (and if the field is relatively empty, that means its possible we will get them).

[Billfred]

It's like 3" by 1.5". I don't think it's really that big for putting on the robot. And if it's a field sensor, why hand it out? And where are the transmitters we'll be putting on the robots? Unless the challenge this year is for the robot to punch buttons on a universal remote. In a specific pattern..... Wait. Are we finally being tasked with the holy grail of robotics? Do we get to design robots that will program VCRs and thus end the scourge of blinking "12:00" LEDs in living rooms across the world?
It seems, judging from the code already being passed around and the size, that it could go on the robot to interact with the field.

Now, granted, an IR remote in the stands could get messy--but the documentation I've read seems to indicate you can get other IR receivers for different frequencies beyond those normally used on TV remotes. What if FIRST gave us these to design our robots around, then gave us a board with a different, harder-to-interfere-with receiver component (but the same interface as far as the robot cares) to run on the field?

[T3_1565]

An almost complete list.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50885&highlight=clues

thanks, seems what I said only applied to last year. please ignore point b. lol

[JBotAlan]

It seems, judging from the code already being passed around

That code was written by me. I don't even have a hardware part yet. I have received no extra hint, but merely followed the spec sheet assuming this goes on the robot.

The fact that code is being passed around doesn't prove anything, as it's not IFI/FIRST-official code.

Just thought I'd better point that out.

JBot

[Elgin Clock]

That code was written by me. I don't even have a hardware part yet. I have received no extra hint, but merely followed the spec sheet assuming this goes on the robot.

The fact that code is being passed around doesn't prove anything, as it's not IFI/FIRST-official code.

Just thought I'd better point that out.

JBot

It may be wise to change the title of your thread to "unofficial FIRST IR Code" or something like that.

Just a thought so if/when there is an official one released, it won't be confused on the boards here.

[dlavery]

In '04, our first year with a "targeted" Autonomous, the game was poorly designed ...

Ouch.



.

[T3_1565]

Ouch.


uh oh... dave is in the thread :p:p

[EricH]

uh oh... dave is in the thread :p:p...Again. How is he messing with our minds this time?

[Kevin Sevcik]

I find it hard to believe that FIRST would go through the trouble of making this component, and then only using it for Autonomous. Here's a little history to prove this.Perhaps I should rephrase that. I intended to say that it would only be necessary in autonomous. Simply from the reasoning that it would be quite out of character for the GDC to design a game where the only option for success in auto OR tele-op was to use this sensor on your robot so you could tell which whatsit needs what gizmo to maximize your points. Like I said, there will at least be visual clues for the spectators to follow along with that would clue in drivers. And I refuse to believe that the the GDC would make something like this absolutely mandatory to having a successful robot.

[T3_1565]

I agree once again (we sure think a-like) I can't see it being the only for the robot to work, I can see it help, and I can see it the most help in auto mode (or perhaps end game)

[www.divsys.com]

The assemblies and function of this board are very real. I think this year will be a fun one for all the teams. ;)

diversified systems

[AdamHeard]

The assemblies and function of this board are very real. I think this year will be a fun one for all the teams. ;)

diversified systems

Any way of knowing if this user is legitimate?

[njamietech]

I have a hard time believing this is legit.

The Dean Kamen post earlier was a little more real (yet still suspicious).

This user needs to be investigated on.

Can a mod do this please?

[JaneYoung]

...Again. How is he messing with our minds this time?

Along with, perhaps, messing with our minds, Dave is likely paying attention. The GDC creates and implements the game for the year and they pay attention to and learn from responses, I guarantee you. The added bonus is Dave's relentless humor.
--
Edit: Also, it might be a good idea to recognize the fact that we have sponsors such as diversifiedsystems involved in this clue, which raises the bar in several areas. It couldn't and wouldn't hurt to be respectful as we are exploring different aspects of the clue in our posts.

[www.divsys.com]

This is Ben Wrightsman from diversifiedsystems. We manufactured the IR Sensor Boards at the beginning of this thread. We also produced the sensor boards last year, the YAW/Accel/Gear tooth sensors. Red was to spice things up a bit.

Just thought I would join up, and see all the hype on the "teaser" boards.


thanks,
BMW

[Elgin Clock]

Any way of knowing if this user is legitimate?

Even if they weren't, do you not believe the statement about it being a fun year?

And I think we already proved the board gift is real even IF www.divsys.com (http://www.divsys.com) is not an "official" person with a CD account.
There is no huge conspiracy between Joe Ross, Team 330, or any other people who have said they have gotten one. I would have thought by the 360+ posts in this thread so far, we would have all come to that concensus by now. :rolleyes:

Moving right along... :]


This year we are running all the boards in red, to spice things up a bit.

Kinf of cool that a board with Infrared technology on it would be colored red.
Very cool link of form & function in my opinion. :)
Kudos to who came up with that thought!

[dlavery]

Even if they weren't, do you not believe the statement about it being a fun year?

And I think we already proved the board gift is real even IF www.divsys.com (http://www.divsys.com) is not an "official" person with a CD account.
There is no huge conspiracy between Joe Ross, Team 330, or any other people who have said they have gotten one. I would have thought by the 360+ posts in this thread so far, we would have all come to that concensus by now. :rolleyes:

Moving right along... :]

Just because there are not less than 360 posts does not prove that Joe Ross is not part of a global conspiracy that anyone else might not be participating in. Or not. ;)




.

[Libby K]

Just because there are not less than 360 posts does not prove that Joe Ross is not part of a global conspiracy that anyone else might not be participating in. Or not. ;)




.

You realize if you keep messing with our heads, we're just going to stop paying attention to you? Then it's no fun for you.

Pssst....everyone...IGNORE DAVE!

[vivek16]

Just because there are not less than 360 posts does not prove that Joe Ross is not part of a global conspiracy that anyone else might not be participating in. Or not. ;)




.

dave make vivek confused with his counterproductive banter :mad:
, vivek

[T3_1565]

totally, and I haven't even read all 360+ posts.


I do find it odd that there has been a bunch of new members commenting on this thread though (like join CD to post on this thread)

I'm not saying there fakes but it is a little odd.. this part is definatly making for a cool year!!!!

EDIT:There was a thousand points between who I was agreeing with and my post it was Elgin I was responding to

[Elgin Clock]

You realize if you keep messing with our heads, we're just going to stop paying attention to you? Then it's no fun for you.

Pssst....everyone...IGNORE DAVE!

I think I'm going to need a 12 step program to help cure me from my Cryptic Dave Lavery Chief Delphi Post Analyzation Disorder I got goin' on here.
(AKA: C.D.L.C.D.P.A.D.) :p

[www.divsys.com]

"Kind of cool that a board with Infrared technology on it would be colored red.
Very cool link of form & function in my opinion.
Kudos to who came up with that thought!"

I guess I can take credit for that, we were going to go with Colts blue, but didn't want to offend anyone. :)

[EricH]

Just because there are not less than 360 posts does not prove that Joe Ross is not part of a global conspiracy that anyone else might not be participating in. Or not. ;)




.
If there is a conspiracy, Joe is not the head of it (if he's even involved, which I doubt). This character (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=171), on the other hand, certainly is. The conspiracy's objective? Puzzle us all to death, mess with our heads, and similar "crimes".

[Kevin Sevcik]

I guess I can take credit for that, we were going to go with Colts blue, but didn't want to offend anyone. :)In that case, I reserve the right to assume that these are, in fact, Texans' Battle Red.

[vivek16]

Ah yes, but it is still Cardinals red :mad:

dissapointed, vivek


jk jk, I don't even watch football.

[d.courtney]

I highly doubt that its a hoax and for mainly just one reason. If it was never in an email to the teams then sure I agree FIRST may play with us like this. But I question FIRST ever using its email blast as an accessory to a hoax. The email blasts frequently contain vital information for teams, and using it to play a prank on thousands of minds would lose credibility in its purpose.

Now as for what it is or what it will be used for, well I am content to wait till ours arrives in the mail before I think about it further. I hope is that its for a game piece that changes, not to be placed on the robot. The idea of game pieces changing throughout the game appeals to me.

[Libby K]

I have a feeling only certain teams got it for a REASON.

I just want to know what that reason IS.

[Nuttyman54]

I have a feeling only certain teams got it for a REASON.

I just want to know what that reason IS.

Me too

I have confirmation that 190 got the email, but as of yesterday 1735 had not. I'll try and find out about 971 tomorrow...

[d.courtney]

I have a feeling only certain teams got it for a REASON.

I just want to know what that reason IS.

Our team got the email, I assumed every team got it. Are there many teams that haven't? (sorry I haven't gone through all the pages to read all the discussion, nor would I have the time).

Has someone been keeping track of who has received the email and tried to make a connection, whether it be number of teams per regional receiving the email or in direct relation to their team number? If only a select few teams are receiving this email, there MUST be a correlation, in which case I am willing to begin speculating why.

[Elgin Clock]

Just because there are not less than 360 posts does not prove that Joe Ross is not part of a global conspiracy that anyone else might not be participating in. Or not. ;)




.

How long has Dave been doing that THING with the dots at the ends of some posts???
Ughhhhhh!!! WHY DOES HE DO THAT?!?!?!?! :ahh: :eek: :ahh:

Meh.. if anyone figures it out, post here.
On an unrelated note, I'm off to go put some dots on some diagrams of compounds in my final exam in Chemistry class.
Woooo Octet rules! :rolleyes:

[JBotAlan]

Only the primary contact (I think) for 68 got the email--I saw it forwarded to my inbox from her. Now, I have no idea whether or not we received the part.

Will be able to tell in about 45 minutes if FedEx came through.

JBot

[JaneYoung]

Our team got the email, I assumed every team got it. Are there many teams that haven't? (sorry I haven't gone through all the pages to read all the discussion, nor would I have the time).

Has someone been keeping track of who has received the email and tried to make a connection, whether it be number of teams per regional receiving the email or in direct relation to their team number? If only a select few teams are receiving this email, there MUST be a correlation, in which case I am willing to begin speculating why.

This thread has several themes running through it:
1. questions and ideas regarding the actual clue
2. the email and who has received it
3. the package containing the clue and who has received it
4. chatter
5. Donuts for Dave
6. I forget, oh yes - the whole hoax thing

To my knowledge, no one has posted the tally of who has what.

[Kaushal.K]

The game could also be something along the lines of King Of The Hill (robot has to "defend" a certain area from opposing robots and the "Hill" moves around every x seconds of game play...) although this theory does defeat the purpose of Autonomous, but maybe it could work if there were other ways to score points...

Edit: the "Hill" area would be defined by a certain IR frequency (which could light up one of the 4 LED's on the board)

Edit2: Team 1241 has not recieved either an email or the chip as of now (or atleast our Lead contact hasn't informed us about it.. yet...)

[artdutra04]

Just because there are not less than 360 posts does not prove that Joe Ross is not part of a global conspiracy that anyone else might not be participating in. Or not. ;)




.Well that explains the banana. :p

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8581/bananasnm5.png

[vivek16]

Well that explains the banana. :p

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8581/bananasnm5.png

lol. It's about time a banana showed up :D

-vivek

[Milaki]

I think I'm going to need a 12 step program to help cure me from my Cryptic Dave Lavery Chief Delphi Post Analyzation Disorder I got goin' on here.

I have to agree, it's become second nature to me that if I see the name dlavery then I have to instantly read the post/quote/reference no matter what.

Stupid brain training me to do stuff no matter how hard I try not to. :mad:

[www.divsys.com]

:)

BMW

[T3_1565]

well for the record 1565 recieved the email and not the part, I was asuuming we didn't get it cause we were in the middle of 2ft of snow yesterday lol maybe we got it tonight though, I'll find out tomorrow morning when I ask my teacher

[Graham Donaldson]

Every one of the teams will be getting one of these. They were shipped out in batches. 1500parts and cables is no 8hour task. :)

BMW

Provided that www.divsys.com is a real user, which I'm sure they are, I'd say that this proves once and for all that this is not a hoax. Why didn't we ever think of production issues when we were wondering why not all teams had gotten them?!?!? [smacks self on forehead]

EDIT: Bill Moore sent me a message with a very good point that Diversified Systems is based in Indiana, and Joe got his from NH. My idea/response is this (and I quote, from my PM): "Only thing I can think of- divsys is sending them on to FIRST HQ, who packages them and then sends them out to teams, in accordance with who has already paid??? Saves giving divsys the team list and complicating things for them."

How do we know this is a hint for 2008?

Seriously. Knowing the GDC (or specifically, Dave...)

Funny you should say that, Libby- I was thinking the same thing in engineering today. Has anyone ever looked to see if the game hints relate to the next year's game, or something crazy like that? I mean, if Dave's on it, you really never can tell...:D

[Branden Ghena]

I have read through all of the posts on here, but I couldn't find this...

Has any team apart from Team 330 actually received the IR Sensor yet?:confused:

[T3_1565]

well the email that was sent did say "...game hint season..."

[EricH]

I have read through all of the posts on here, but I couldn't find this...

Has any team apart from Team 330 actually received the IR Sensor yet?:confused:Yes. Start on page one, and 846 got theirs.

[Branden Ghena]

Thanks:D

[Ed Sparks]

Team 34 got one today. I'm going to post a model in the FirstCadLibrary (http://www.firstcadlibrary.com) just for fun in a day or so.

[legomaster3945]

well the email that was sent did say "...game hint season..."

yes but it also said look for the gift
not exact quote i didnt want to dig it up again
but i remember game hint season but to look out for FRC anf GDC gift

Edit* not sure if we recived either email or the chip yet we had no school today :)

[T3_1565]

true enough, but the chip did come with a piece of paper that said visit http://usfirst.org/decgift (or close to that)

We should really get a tally going of who got the email and who got there part

EDIT: For some reason I cannot start a new thread, so can someone else do it? and if Bradon sees this can you PM me as to why I cannot create a new thread??

[razor95kds]

766 has just received the chip (mailed to my brother who graduated from the team 3 years ago). it came in a package labeled "FRC game hint"

[synth3tk]

It's on the first page, but the exact link it redirects to is http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=7600

[T3_1565]

I thank you for the link blakcheez I just noticed something interesting!

http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=6616 this is the 2008 email blast archieve! why isn't the game hint email here???

[synth3tk]

That was brought up earlier. An answer is yet to be found, but so far this whole thing still seems legit. Could be dave working his defunct "magic" in the background...

[Nica F.]

To follow up on the hint not really affecting anything outside of autonomous mode, I agree.

I really think that this hint won't affect the game for a lot of teams. If you think of Aim High and all the emphasis on the green light, many teams just used set angles and others positions where they knew they could make a goal.
For the Rack and Roll game the use of the green light again, could be avoided by teams who decided to just take a shot at dead reckoning. And others, didn't bother at an autonomous mode because the work on the camera would just be too much to handle.

Of course if the sensor, universal remote, or whatever crazy contraption that can help you find every goal imaginable would help during the game for certain advantages but in the end thats a lot of hype for something that only affects one aspect of the game (if it does happen to affect only autonomous mode that is).

[GaryVoshol]

You realize if you keep messing with our heads, we're just going to stop paying attention to you? Then it's no fun for you.

Pssst....everyone...IGNORE DAVE!

Can't be done. It's like when you're driving down the highway and see an accident on the other side. You know you should just keep going - but you've GOT to slow down and look. That's how it is with Dave's Head-Messing (DHM). You know you shouldn't waste time, but you try to figure it out anyway.

[T3_1565]

oh I didn't get a chance to read all 27 pages lol. It wouldn't surprise me if Dave told the webmaster of the FIRST site to hold out on putting that email in the archieve for a couples days so we mention it and say its a hoax when it isn't!!!!!

When will it end
When will my mind be a peace now that a hint has arisen???





oh well it's super fun who needs sleep anyways:p

[lackadaisy :)]

This is Ben Wrightsman from diversifiedsystems. We manufactured the IR Sensor Boards at the beginning of this thread. We also produce the sensor boards all you receive, the YAW/Accel/Gear tooth sensors. This year we are running all the boards in red, to spice things up a bit.

Just thought I would join up, and see all the hype on these new "teaser" boards.


thanks,
BMW

BMW? like the car? why doesn't he use his actual name? (or is this just the whole game hint thing getting to my head?) :confused:

btw, 341 got the email but hasn't gotten the sensor yet.

[legomaster3945]

BMW? like the car? why doesn't he use his actual name? (or is this just the whole game hint thing getting to my head?) :confused:

btw, 341 got the email but hasn't gotten the sensor yet.
his name is in the first line :D Ben Wrightsman

[JBotAlan]

We should really get a tally going of who got the email and who got there part
Without further ado:

Part
330 (Joe Ross) 1999 Hermosa Beach, CA
846 (SU 39) 2002 San Jose, CA
701 (Doug G) 2001 Fairfield, CA
237 (Elgin Clock) 1999 Watertown, CT
34 (Ed Sparks) 1997 Huntsville, AL
766 (razor95kds) 2002 Atherton, CA

Blast only
1018 (Stu Bloom) 2003 Indianapolis, IN
? 2264 (vivek16) 2007 Plymouth, MN
2370 (fimmel) ? (TBA lists 0 as rookie year...) Rutland, VT
418 (JaneYoung) 2000 Austin, TX
1923 (Libby K) 2006 Plainsboro, NJ
217 (GeeForce) 1999 Sterling Heights, MI
1025 (GaryVoshol) ? (TBA lists 0 as rookie year) Ferndale, MI
340 or 424...not sure (rees2001) 340 and 424: 2000 Churchville, NY
190 (Nuttyman54) 1992 Worcester, MA
781 (d.courtney) 2002 Kincardine, ON (Canada)
1565 (T3_1565) 2005 Cambridge, ON (Canada)
68 (JBotAlan) 1998 Pontiac, MI

Wow...that was a lot of work...

No high-number teams have received their part yet--no team # > 1000. Other than that I see little correlation. Analyze away. I'm done with that.

EDIT: For some reason I cannot start a new thread, so can someone else do it? and if Bradon sees this can you PM me as to why I cannot create a new thread??
At the top of the page, there is a link labeled "Chief Delphi"--it's at the beginning of "Chief Delphi > ChiefDelphi.com website > Extra Discussion..." Click it and pick the correct forum. Then, click the New Thread button at the top, and post away.

JBot

[Scott L.]

:D I think a big reason behind releasing the game hints is to get us to think. So far we are thinking of solutions to possibly fictitious problems. This in my opinion is a great way to improve the knowledge of the participating members.

Just my opinion though

[T3_1565]

I did that (I'm not THAT new) it says I'm prohibitated from creating new threads. Not sure why....

[jerry w]

OK I'm tired of the confusion. Let get this straight.
We are finally getting the robot-thumb game that some of us have been waiting for!
Each alliance gets 2 remote controls. For example, the red alliance is handed 2 red remotes while on deck. They decide which 2 robots will hold the remotes. The first part of the game requires that a robot with the remote reach some spot on the field. This will be in front of the IR sensor. The sensor is housed on the field with only a small opening.
There the robot activates its mechanical thumb. It presses the button on the remote! The sensor sees the coded IR signal and activates one of the 4 outputs. this signal releases the first group of red batons. If the second red robot also got its remote aimed and detected, field releases the rest of the red batons.
After 45 seconds, all remaining batons are released. I assume that blue has broken thumbs.

Why a learning sensor? Because, some robot klutz will jam its thumb through the remote. Then the field crew must get a new remote out of the box and have the field learn the new code.

go teams!! may the best thumb win!!

jerry w

[T3_1565]

Without further ado:

Part
330 (Joe Ross) 1999 Hermosa Beach, CA
846 (SU 39) 2002 San Jose, CA
701 (Doug G) 2001 Fairfield, CA
237 (Elgin Clock) 1999 Watertown, CT
34 (Ed Sparks) 1997 Huntsville, AL
766 (razor95kds) 2002 Atherton, CA

Blast only
1018 (Stu Bloom) 2003 Indianapolis, IN
? 2264 (vivek16) 2007 Plymouth, MN
2370 (fimmel) ? (TBA lists 0 as rookie year...) Rutland, VT
418 (JaneYoung) 2000 Austin, TX
1923 (Libby K) 2006 Plainsboro, NJ
217 (GeeForce) 1999 Sterling Heights, MI
1025 (GaryVoshol) ? (TBA lists 0 as rookie year) Ferndale, MI
340 or 424...not sure (rees2001) 340 and 424: 2000 Churchville, NY
190 (Nuttyman54) 1992 Worcester, MA
781 (d.courtney) 2002 Kincardine, ON (Canada)
1565 (T3_1565) 2005 Cambridge, ON (Canada)
68 (JBotAlan) 1998 Pontiac, MI



thats the only thing I saw, yet AL is across the states and CT is that far plus north! hmmmmmmmmm

[lukevanoort]

I did that (I'm not THAT new) it says I'm prohibitated from creating new threads. Not sure why....
Are you trying to make a thread in "Extra Discussion?" Try somewhere else, like the Rumor Mill.

[synth3tk]

You realize if you keep messing with our heads, we're just going to stop paying attention to you? Then it's no fun for you.

Pssst....everyone...IGNORE DAVE!
This, my dear, cannot be accomplished, not while we still inhabit these mortal bodies. Ignoring dave is like ignoring the weather outside. Most of us hate the weatherman on TV, we simply cannot ignore him and his awesome automagicktelecastingisitgonnasnow powers!

Are you trying to make a thread in "Extra Discussion?" Try somewhere else, like the Rumor Mill.
Ah, yes. That's the reason. Extra Discussion is reserved ONLY for comments on Pics or Papers in CD-Media. Try Chit-Chat or Rumor Mill instead.

[synth3tk]

[...]

[MarySheridan]

My guess is that the sensor will be part of the field. If it is only able to receive data from up to a few feet away, how would the robot be able to receive it from across a field?

[T3_1565]

thanks everyone who helped with the thread problem (I was stupid and forgot that lol) I have the tally up in a different thread if you wish to add you team/name to the list!

[DonRotolo]

it would have to be indicating something on the field that drivers and the audience couldn't see. And any scoring method or game influencing state that's invisible to the audience will drive them absolutely batty and quickly frustrate them.
It wouldn't be a stretch to put some kind of human-interpretable signal to indicate the state; for example, a colored light, or a numeric sign...
uh oh... dave is in the thread :p:p
Dave is everywhere. I have remarked in the past at his ability to read an astounding amount of information in a short period. Either he does little else in his free time, or he's surfing at work.
This is Ben Wrightsman from diversifiedsystems.
Please everyone, Ben is not a hoax. Just google him, fer cryin' out loud!
true enough, but the chip did come with a piece of paper that said visit http://usfirst.org/decgift (or close to that)
Someone, somewhere has to pay for everything. In this case, is it too much of a stretch to imagine that DEC (Digital Equipment Corp) offered to pay for these boards (with very generous donations from others), hence the name of the web page?

YIKES! 418 posts, this thread is moving far too fast. Is it bad that I have read every post?

[Nuttyman54]

Without further ado:

Part
330 (Joe Ross) 1999 Hermosa Beach, CA
846 (SU 39) 2002 San Jose, CA
701 (Doug G) 2001 Fairfield, CA
237 (Elgin Clock) 1999 Watertown, CT
34 (Ed Sparks) 1997 Huntsville, AL
766 (razor95kds) 2002 Atherton, CA


Confirmation from Team 971 (Mountain View, CA, 2002) that they have received both the email blast and the physical sensor.

[EricH]

I In this case, is it too much of a stretch to imagine that DEC (Digital Equipment Corp) offered to pay for these boards (with very generous donations from others), hence the name of the web page? It may also be due to the month, or both together.

[JaneYoung]

YIKES! 418 posts, this thread is moving far too fast. Is it bad that I have read every post?

That's not YIKES, that's cool.
And yay for reading all the posts, you get an extra chocolate covered cherry!

[T3_1565]

That's not YIKES, that's cool.
And yay for reading all the posts, you get an extra chocolate covered cherry!

mmmmm cherry!!! too bad I'm too busy to read the posts.... (too many things to do with robots lol)

[DonRotolo]

Thanks Jane, one day I'll collect!

And EricH, I am so absorbed I have literally forgotten what month is it. D'oh!

Don

[Elgin Clock]

thats the only thing I saw, yet AL is across the states and CT is that far plus north! hmmmmmmmmm

Yeah... we didn't technically get our part yet. :(
We did get the e-mail though.
That's my bad! Thats what I get for having a conversation about this @ 2am in the morning. We have e-mail confirmation, but no part yet as of 8pm 12/17/07.

[lukevanoort]

Is it bad that I have read every post? It just means you are skilled at finding ways to waste inordinate amounts of your time for little to no gain. ;) (I've read every post too, so I'm in the same boat) Actually, this thread might make an interesting mathematical study given that the rate of posting of certain ideas (hoax, virtual game piece, etc) seems (from what I remember of the previous 425 posts) almost like a damped sinusoidal pattern. I'd imagine that the period of the sine wave is probably somehow related to the number 15 (as in the default posts/page).

[RyanN]

Here is something that just popped in my head...

The autonomous game: There are n number of blue or red boxes with green stripes on the field. We still get cameras, but they are used to look for the boxes. There are 4 types of boxes:
0 point boxes, 2 point boxes, 4 point boxes, and 8 point boxes (made up values of course)
Each box has a specific IR frequency. What we must do is look for the boxes and decide which box is worth the most, pick it up, and place it in a sand box type pit in the center of the field (going off the hint of the new game doesn't require much field setup).

So... to make it simple: Autonomous mode starts, robots go out, find the box of the right color worth the most points, pick it up, place it in the pit.

Regular match: All the boxes look the same except some are red and some are blue (due to alliances). The robots must go up to the boxes, determine the value, and decide whether or not to score it.

EDIT: The reason I selected boxes is because we haven't had them in a llloooonnnnggg time...

[T3_1565]

I can see that for auto mode only I can see the IR getting shut off for tele mode (after auto points are tallied) and every "square" is now worth two points only, or something to that nature.

I like the idea though.. it would quite fun to play!

[synth3tk]

YIKES! 418 posts, this thread is moving far too fast. Is it bad that I have read every post?
If so, then every one of us here are doing something bad. But since "everyone else is jumping off the bridge", then by the standards of today's society, it automatically makes it right.

[sishu7]

Sorry to all. I will stop posting these anonymous hints.

[synth3tk]

It just means you are skilled at finding ways to waste inordinate amounts of your time for little to no gain. ;) (I've read every post too, so I'm in the same boat) Actually, this thread might make an interesting mathematical study given that the rate of posting of certain ideas (hoax, virtual game piece, etc) seems (from what I remember of the previous 425 posts) almost like a damped sinusoidal pattern. I'd imagine that the period of the sine wave is probably somehow related to the number 15 (as in the default posts/page).
You killed it. Now the whole thread and time as we know it will fold upon itself, creating a void where nothing but robotic competitions exsist! Happy?

[sishu7]

Here is something that just popped in my head...

The autonomous game: There are n number of blue or red boxes with green stripes on the field. We still get cameras, but they are used to look for the boxes. There are 4 types of boxes:
0 point boxes, 2 point boxes, 4 point boxes, and 8 point boxes (made up values of course)
Each box has a specific IR frequency. What we must do is look for the boxes and decide which box is worth the most, pick it up, and place it in a sand box type pit in the center of the field (going off the hint of the new game doesn't require much field setup).

So... to make it simple: Autonomous mode starts, robots go out, find the box of the right color worth the most points, pick it up, place it in the pit.

Regular match: All the boxes look the same except some are red and some are blue (due to alliances). The robots must go up to the boxes, determine the value, and decide whether or not to score it.

EDIT: The reason I selected boxes is because we haven't had them in a llloooonnnnggg time...

Wow! I like this theory... it synchs with some of what I've heard and some speculations. It also sounds fun and focuses on the programming end more, which I'm sure would make it a unique challenge.

[Graham Donaldson]

It just means you are skilled at finding ways to waste inordinate amounts of your time for little to no gain. ;) (I've read every post too, so I'm in the same boat) Actually, this thread might make an interesting mathematical study given that the rate of posting of certain ideas (hoax, virtual game piece, etc) seems (from what I remember of the previous 425 posts) almost like a damped sinusoidal pattern. I'd imagine that the period of the sine wave is probably somehow related to the number 15 (as in the default posts/page).

That describes me perfectly!!! -:D But the catch for me is, I've grown so numb to the conversation that I sorta skip over the posts re: whether or not this is a hoax (because we know it's not).

And what the heck is a "damped sinusoidal pattern"? I'm fairly certain I've never heard of that before, yet I get the feeling that I will later this year (Hon. Precalc + Hon. Physics = a lot of math)

[T3_1565]

My post was edited... why? If someone pm's me and asks that I NOT include his or her name, I have every right not to do so!

I believe your post was edited because the modrators have decided that you need to start talk using a real account, and not one that was made to try and give hints (false or otherwise)

[lukevanoort]

And what the heck is a "damped sinusoidal pattern"? I'm fairly certain I've never heard of that before, yet I get the feeling that I will later this year (Hon. Precalc + Hon. Physics = a lot of math)
You definitely will hear about damped sinusoidal functions in both of those classes. Here is an example: http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/pf6img6.gif
Basically, it is a sine graph of varying 'height.'

[Kevin Sevcik]

It wouldn't be a stretch to put some kind of human-interpretable signal to indicate the state; for example, a colored light, or a numeric sign...Well, thus my point. A human interpretable signal would be nigh useless for robots in autonomous mode while an IR signal would be highly useful. But in tele-op, the human drivers could easily depend on the human interpretable signals instead of their robot sensing the IR signals. So the IR sensor would be potentially useful but no longer vitally necessary in tele-op.

[mrmummert]

1610 so far has gotten the e-mail....i've made sure our lead teacher had the shipping address right

[Elgin Clock]

I highly doubt that its a hoax and for mainly just one reason. If it was never in an email to the teams then sure I agree FIRST may play with us like this. But I question FIRST ever using its email blast as an accessory to a hoax. The email blasts frequently contain vital information for teams, and using it to play a prank on thousands of minds would lose credibility in its purpose.

It did not contain a prank.
All it said was very important information about updating your shipping address.
Which if you haven't by now, seems like you really should do some housekeeping as far as TIMS goes right about now teams!:)

[Billfred]

Well, thus my point. A human interpretable signal would be nigh useless for robots in autonomous mode while an IR signal would be highly useful. But in tele-op, the human drivers could easily depend on the human interpretable signals instead of their robot sensing the IR signals. So the IR sensor would be potentially useful but no longer vitally necessary in tele-op.
What if the indication is pointed out of the view of the alliance stations?

[MarySheridan]

Well that explains the banana. :p

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8581/bananasnm5.png

how does that explain the banana?

[njamietech]

how does that explain the banana?

I'm curious too.

I'm also curious as to what you did to that image.

[Branden Ghena]

I think he just inverted the colors in MS Paint and then pasted in a banana, an allusion to something by Dlavery, I don't remember exactly what.

[EricH]

I think he just inverted the colors in MS Paint and then pasted in a banana, an allusion to something by Dlavery, I don't remember exactly what.Dave put a banana in a "hint" for "2007" some time ago. Havabanana Productions (AKA Dave) does the game animation every year. (Actually, what Art did looks like what sanddrag tried in the official hint discussion last year.)

[IndySam]

how does that explain the banana?

Just an old callback!

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41024&highlight=game+hints

[Joe G.]

how does that explain the banana?

Just an old callback!

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41024&highlight=game+hints

That and this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/26070)

[www.divsys.com]

It may also be due to the month, or both together.

Someone, somewhere has to pay for everything. In this case, is it too much of a stretch to imagine that DEC (Digital Equipment Corp) offered to pay for these boards (with very generous donations from others), hence the name of the web page?



The IR sensor component was donated by Vishay. We (diversifiedsystems) provided the layout, engineering, bare circuit boards, all the remainder of the components, and assembled it all. This was part of our sponsorship to FIRST, and specifically to all the teams. We have some other cool things coming....

BMW AKA Ben Michael Wrightsman for those that asked.

[Chaos Marine]

hey people after looking at this picture and taking a look at the site it refers you to, this "IR learning Infared remote" makes me think about a year or two ago when Dave from Hot team started to talk about how he wants the robots to respond to more then just one color! this may be the remote they were looking for to do such a thing dont ya think??

[Ed Sparks]

A model of the 2008 IR Board is posted in the FirstCadLibrary if you want to do some "virtual tinkering". :cool:

[ahecht]

hey people after looking at this picture and taking a look at the site it refers you to, this "IR learning Infared remote" makes me think about a year or two ago when Dave from Hot team started to talk about how he wants the robots to respond to more then just one color! this may be the remote they were looking for to do such a thing dont ya think??

Wow, what an original idea, no one has posted that idea before (hint: there is a "search this thread" tool).

[www.divsys.com]

Ed/Anyone,

We can post the dimension CAD if it would benefit any of you.

[geeknerd99]

...I'm done following this thread... I have some hardcore sleeping to do...

[coolbotz]

Here's my take on this board. The board is used to switch modes (which color to look for or which part to manipulate). It is not used for navigation. The IR has proven to be too scattered for navigation. Each team can pick the particular IR codes with their own remote. But during competition each robot will need to respond to the same IR code for each mode. The field code be almost completely covered with multiple high output IR transmitters (spotlights) from many angles. Each robot only needs to see one valid code to give the FRC controller a 100mSec signal per the Official FRC spec sheet. Well how do the units get programmed at the competition you may ask. Since I don't have a decoder board I can speculate that the J2 header on the decoder board is a programming port or a remote "learn" switch. Another possibility is that the IR board has some preprogrammed IR signals that are not used by IR remotes. If you compare the FRC decoder board to the TinyIR2 board by TaunTek You will notice the extra 10k resistor (R4) That seems to go to the J2 header. Sounds like a weak pullup for an input to the PIC. Maybe someone can post a picture of the back of the board (unless it's a 4 layer) or better yet a schematic.

[Kevin Sevcik]

What if the indication is pointed out of the view of the alliance stations?Erm. Well then yes, the IR board would presumably be nigh on mandatory for any team to be successful. Which is possible, but which I am philosophically opposed to.

[Stu Bloom]

Ed/Anyone,

We can post the original CAD and specs if it would benefit any of you.

Thanks Ben, I'm sure that information would be beneficial for many. Nice work - FIRST is very fortunate to have you on board. Looking forward to figuring out what this board will be used for.

[artdutra04]

I'm curious too.

I'm also curious as to what you did to that image.I think he just inverted the colors in MS Paint and then pasted in a banana, an allusion to something by Dlavery, I don't remember exactly what.Eww, MS Paint. Those are some lonely megabytes on my hard drive, as I've haven't used MS Paint in about two years. The real story behind this image goes even deeper...

As an avid fan of Numb3rs, I like to dig deeper into everyday objects to unravel our most perplexing mysteries. I first opened the photo in Photoshop CS2, and cropped out the parts I didn't want (Otherwise the filter algorithms might return false positives). Then to highlight the differences in the photo, I ran the photo through a heightened saturation filter, with an offset in the hue. From this, I upped the contrast by about 20%, which now provided an optimal base image to begin the preliminary filter algorithms.

The first thing I would need to do was an inverse dithering and noise cancellation algorithm. Since the base photo was a JPEG image, there was noise in the photo from compressing it into a lossy file format; yet within this noise, there was also the image of the banana. Since the compression artifacts only effect the pixels around the source pixel, running the photo through these two algorithms simultaneously and integrating the results returned what I was looking for. I began to see the faint outline of a banana. :cool:

However, it took several tries to get a good filter pass of the photo. Because these filters act upon the image using Erwin Schrödinger's theories of exponential decay of pixels in compressed photos, sometimes the banana is still alive in the output, others it's not. And there is no way you can predict or know which is which, except for running the algorithm a lot and relying on an interpretation and statistical analysis of the results.

Using these results, I now needed another algorithm to be able to exactly detect the banana in the image, rather than rely on only human pattern-recognition skills, which in the hands of a creative person can result in one million different things visible in the same cloud in the sky. Obviously such a diverse range of output values given the extremely limited domain of input values in such a case would be extremely detrimental in our circumstance.

After doing some research into pattern recognition algorithms, and more specifically banana-recognition algorithms, I discovered this site about banana and apple recognition (http://isthe.com/chongo/tech/comp/apple-banana/index.html). It was a gold mine of information, and even had working algorithms. Bingo. My hunch about the banana on the left side of the image paid off. The algorithm predicted that is was indeed a banana with 99.7% certainty, and with a very narrow Gaussian distribution of the output data.

From there, I duplicated the layer and highlighted the banana in yellow to make it easier to see.

But after looking back through my source website again (http://isthe.com/chongo/tech/comp/apple-banana/index.html), so much of the website seemed applicable to FIRST at the moment. So with that in mind,


...I've thus concluded that this year's game involves... apples and bananas! How 'bout them apples? :p

[Jeff 801]

this may have been said but i dont want to read about 455 post but it might have to do with the team inductor light because this cable fits on 2 sets of the connectors if i am not mistaken

[EricH]

this may have been said but i dont want to read about 455 post but it might have to do with the team inductor light because this cable fits on 2 sets of the connectors if i am not mistakenIt isn't the diagnostic light. It's an IR receiver, programmable. Go read the thread. (You can skip the discussion of "hoax or not"--that's about 50 of the posts right there.)

[Joe Ross]

Eww, MS Paint. Those are some lonely megabytes on my hard drive, as I've haven't used MS Paint in about two years. The real story behind this image goes even deeper...

As an avid fan of Numb3rs, I like to dig deeper into everyday objects to unravel our most perplexing mysteries. I first opened the photo in Photoshop CS2, and cropped out the parts I didn't want (Otherwise the filter algorithms might return false positives). Then to highlight the differences in the photo, I ran the photo through a heightened saturation filter, with an offset in the hue. From this, I upped the contrast by about 20%, which now provided an optimal base image to begin the preliminary filter algorithms.

The first thing I would need to do was an inverse dithering and noise cancellation algorithm. Since the base photo was a JPEG image, there was noise in the photo from compressing it into a lossy file format; yet within this noise, there was also the image of the banana. Since the compression artifacts only effect the pixels around the source pixel, running the photo through these two algorithms simultaneously and integrating the results returned what I was looking for. I began to see the faint outline of a banana. :cool:

However, it took several tries to get a good filter pass of the photo. Because these filters act upon the image using Erwin Schrödinger's theories of exponential decay of pixels in compressed photos, sometimes the banana is still alive in the output, others it's not. And there is no way you can predict or know which is which, except for running the algorithm a lot and relying on an interpretation and statistical analysis of the results.

Using these results, I now needed another algorithm to be able to exactly detect the banana in the image, rather than rely on only human pattern-recognition skills, which in the hands of a creative person can result in one million different things visible in the same cloud in the sky. Obviously such a diverse range of output values given the extremely limited domain of input values in such a case would be extremely detrimental in our circumstance.

After doing some research into pattern recognition algorithms, and more specifically banana-recognition algorithms, I discovered this site about banana and apple recognition (http://isthe.com/chongo/tech/comp/apple-banana/index.html). It was a gold mine of information, and even had working algorithms. Bingo. My hunch about the banana on the left side of the image paid off. The algorithm predicted that is was indeed a banana with 99.7% certainty, and with a very narrow Gaussian distribution of the output data.

From there, I duplicated the layer and highlighted the banana in yellow to make it easier to see.

But after looking back through my source website again (http://isthe.com/chongo/tech/comp/apple-banana/index.html), so much of the website seemed applicable to FIRST at the moment. So with that in mind,


...I've thus concluded that this year's game involves... apples and bananas! How 'bout them apples? :p

I had to compress the photo more then default to get under CD's 750KB limit. I'm pretty sure it was a pineapple before compression.

[Jeff 801]

It isn't the diagnostic light. It's an IR receiver, programmable. Go read the thread. (You can skip the discussion of "hoax or not"--that's about 50 of the posts right there.)

i understand that part but where on the robot controller could it plug in

[Elgin Clock]

I had to compress the photo more then default to get under CD's 750KB limit. I'm pretty sure it was a pineapple before compression.

Ooh.. pineapples.
Now you're speakin' my language (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/21836). :D

Or... wait.. I didn't buy those pineapples.
But I did buy the Banana costume. (http://photos-109.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v66/8/100/507827109/n507827109_19890_4742.jpg)

[BHOP]

my conclusion is that the field will communicate to the robot, a solid, strong single signal that will probably change based on the state of the game(think offense, defense,ffa). IR is too shady try to communicate back and forth, but if you have enough power and transmitters i think the field could cut through anything, and render all auto focusing stuff useless. This could even be another lair of safety! I wonder why IR.......

[MikeDubreuil]

We have some other cool things coming....
Seems pretty clear to me... the receiver board is for the robot. With digital outs it doesn't make sense to go on a field component. FIRST is sending out the kits early so everyone on break can play with them. My hunch is that Diversified Systems is also providing the IR emitters. Or shall we say beacons. The beacons will be battery powered and part of field components/scoring objects.

[Taylor]

The age-old debate of the sequence of circle/square/triangle game pieces will come to an end in 2008.
This year's game will feature all three.
Spheres, cubes, and tetrahedrons will be scattered in some way around the field, to be placed by the robots in corresponding bins. There will be casters on the bottom of the cube-bin and the tetra-bin, making them mobile around the field. The collection for the spheres will be much like the ground goals in Aim High, and they may be reintroduced to the arena by human players after having been scored. Much like Triple Play, a few of the game pieces, as well as the mobile bins, will have IR signals coming from them; the robots will have to differentiate between the different game pieces and place them in the correct bins during autonomous mode. Robots will score 2 points for each game piece placed in a bin, 5 points for each correct placement, and a 20-point autonomous bonus. There will be raised platforms on each half; at the end of the game, a multiplier will be awarded for each mobile bin atop the alliance's platform.
The name of the contest is Match Game (a not-so-hidden reference to Dave Lavery's childhood hero, Gene Rayburn).

[Ed Sparks]

[QUOTE=www.divsys.com;660698]Ed/Anyone,

We can post the original CAD and specs if it would benefit any of you.[/QUOTE

Yes! Please!

[Andy Baker]

Ed/Anyone,

We can post the original CAD and specs if it would benefit any of you.

Ben,

Welcome to ChiefDelphi.com. Get ready for the craziness.

AB

[diesel]

:)
I know what i said earlier, but

My guess from reading this and other threads is that there will be different goals on the field and the goals will change value in points or will only be scorable at certain times. Once the robot is close to a goal it will be able to pick up the IR and decide weather or not to put the object in the goal.

This is simple and makes sense. Right:confused:

[whytheheckme]

OOOH!!!!

Maybe my dream of a more field oriented positioning system is coming true!!!

Maybe, on the field, there are IR emitters all over the place, each giving off a different code. You can use the IR receiver to pick up these codes, and tell where your robot is.

YES

Jacob

[www.divsys.com]

Ed, I just sent you part of the CAD. Tooling holes are noted for mounting. Can't say much more than that for now. :)

thanks,
BMW

[Gene F]

Maybe this is a suppliment for the colored beacons. They are mounted on the robot and interpreted by the video equipment. Video processing is done to place special icons over the robots on the screen indicating their alliance. Like is done is some sporting events.

This would make for a more TV friendly game.

[Graham Donaldson]

Eww, MS Paint. Those are some lonely megabytes on my hard drive, as I've haven't used MS Paint in about two years. The real story behind this image goes even deeper...

...[what I read] ...some weird photoshop stuff I don't understand...more weird photoshop stuff I don't understand... [/what I read]

...I've thus concluded that this year's game involves... apples and bananas! How 'bout them apples? :p

Holy crap Art! I don't understand anything you said, but that seems like a lot of work! Umm...thanks??? :D

[Elgin Clock]

Ed, I just sent you part of the CAD. Tooling holes are noted for mounting. Can't say much more than that for now. :)

thanks,
BMW

Must be to be able to be mounted to the Kitty O Parts. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/29254)
Or.. wait.. do they need aditional sensors to see in the dark? :p
They already have plenty of them. http://www.machinebrain.com/images/omroncat.jpg
But, none-the-less, I'm impressed. The ability to hardwire an electronic device into a kitty? Very cool.
Gotta love FIRST for always keeping us on the cutting edge of technology.

I wonder if they will just clone the cats to be able to give one to every team, or just have us get one locally as a C.A.T.S. Item?
(Commercial At The Store Item) :rolleyes:

[MrForbes]

Ben,

Welcome to ChiefDelphi.com. Get ready for the craziness.

AB

dang, someone else beat me to it! this is at the top of the list of random quotes already :)

[Boydean]

We just got ours in...I mean the FedEx man just left.

[Tottanka]

dang, someone else beat me to it! this is at the top of the list of random quotes already :)

that would be me :D

[synth3tk]

Maybe this is a suppliment for the colored beacons. They are mounted on the robot and interpreted by the video equipment. Video processing is done to place special icons over the robots on the screen indicating their alliance. Like is done is some sporting events.

This would make for a more TV friendly game.
I like!!! Although some regionals are still a few pixels short of having a broadcast, this would help a lot. This would even benefit the team webcasts out there. Which leads me to a question that didn't get answered in the specialty forums.

For those who do live streams, what equipment and software do teams use? I was looking at Sony's XDCam series and it's accessories, though we aren't there financially. Wireless transmitters? Onboard mics, handheld, or booms? How much in total did your media solution cost?

[Scott L.]

My equipment (computers, switches, routers, scan converter, monitors, KVM switch, capture card, connecting cables, audio mixer, mics, and domain name) cost about $1200 or so.
I didn't buy the cameras, but for a professional one they start at about $700 for a good one.
As for software windows 2003 includes the media server, and the encoder is free to download from the microsoft web site. Also Ubuntu Linux and VLC can be used to web cast.
:D
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60116&highlight=web+cast

[T3_1565]

Ed, I just sent you part of the CAD. Tooling holes are noted for mounting. Can't say much more than that for now. :)

thanks,
BMW

you sir, are too sneaky lol :p We are going to end up analysing your quotes soon like we do to dave if your not careful lol :p

[Graham Donaldson]

Maybe this is a suppliment for the colored beacons. They are mounted on the robot and interpreted by the video equipment. Video processing is done to place special icons over the robots on the screen indicating their alliance. Like is done is some sporting events.

This would make for a more TV friendly game.

Seems like everyone is forgetting that these are IR receivers as opposed to transmitters. They can only read signals, not send them.

[Tottanka]

Seems like everyone is forgetting that these are IR receivers as opposed to transmitters. They can only read signals, not send them.


And who said there is no transmitter in the KOP?
:D

[Gene F]

Seems like everyone is forgetting that these are IR receivers as opposed to transmitters. They can only read signals, not send them.

Didn't forget!! Just hadn't seen the web site before I posted. The IR identifier would still be cool!!

I'm liking the idea of couch potato human players now that I've read what this thing is!

Maybe the human players are on the other side of the field giving secondary commands to the robot.

or... Better yet your alliance partner is on the other side of the field and they give your robot commands/information about strategy.


or... The robots communicate with each other to accomplish a specific multi step task like lifting the third member of the alliance.

or... or... or...:eek:

[Joe G.]

1687 (Fully paid) got ours today.

[diesel]

Just saw ours but our coach/mentor/teacher won't let me look at it.

It's all lot smaller than I thought.

[Kaushal.K]

Team 1241 has the part (tuesday) time to get cracking.. =)

[James1902]

got it, crunch time:cool:

[Graham Donaldson]

Hope we got ours...i don't know...we didn't have it as of 10:40 this morning when I was in engineering...Now i wish i had stayed after school...:(

[Aren_Hill]

1625 has received both the part and the email. we got 2 pieces of paper in the package though same thing

[RyanN]

We received our today. Here are some pictures from my phone and a video will follow once it processes on youtube.com.
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v160/83/59/1289760161/n1289760161_30028127_6122.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v160/83/59/1289760161/n1289760161_30028128_6489.jpg
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v160/83/59/1289760161/n1289760161_30028130_7005.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v160/83/59/1289760161/n1289760161_30028131_7283.jpg
http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v160/83/59/1289760161/n1289760161_30028129_6748.jpg

[vivek16]

@ryanN Yeah pretty much ours. I was going to upload pics but it is pretty good in what you have.

well I hooked it up to a 9 volt and the error light flashed once :o umm... my dog ate it :p . Ok it does that consistently so i am just going to assume that it just needs to be programmed.

-vivek

[Jeff 801]

what does the back of the board look like

[RyanN]

The back of the board is flat with no components and a few traces. I would put some space between it and a piece of metal. Vivek, have you tried to program it? You need to hold down the tact button before you connect the power to enter programming mode. Continue holding the button down for 2 seconds then release the button while keeping the power on. Then the CMD0 light will come on. Press down a button on the remote control you want to use until the CMD0 light flashes off, then on and turns off again illuminating the next LED (CMD1). Here is the video of ours working. It's really easy to setup.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G9U7flxTDes

[vivek16]

what does the back of the board look like

here:
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/12/35119101983.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7313102)

[vivek16]

The back of the board is flat with no components and a few traces. I would put some space between it and a piece of metal. Vivek, have you tried to program it? You need to hold down the tact button before you connect the power to enter programming mode. Continue holding the button down for 2 seconds then release the button while keeping the power on. Then the CMD0 light will come on. Press down a button on the remote control you want to use until the CMD0 light flashes off, then on and turns off again illuminating the next LED (CMD1). Here is the video of ours working. It's really easy setup.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G9U7flxTDes

no, I have not tried to program it. Thanks for the information :)

thanks, vivek

[RyanN]

no, I have not tried to program it. Thanks for the information :)

thanks, vivek

Now I did have a problem where, after I programmed it, it was working, then all of a sudden, it stopped working. I don't know if the remote changed modes, but I never did get it working again until I reprogrammed it. Hopefully it's not a programming glitch and it is just a mode or something on the remote that I was not aware of. (the remote was giving me trouble with the DVD player too, so I'm suspecting the remote) If anyone has any questions, I can try to answer them.

[popo308]

we received ours today (tues) i have not had a chance to mess with it though so hopefully this weekend or sometime soon i can tinker a bit and try to get it working

[billbo911]

If someone with a board and access to a multi-meter can do some checking, I would appreciate it. Primarily I would like to know if the White header plug has a pin connected to the same pin on the micro that the Programming button connects to.

[ydnar90]

Team 1511, Rolling Thunder, in Rochester NY has received its sensor :) It did indeed come in a package labeled as the hint, in case anyone still has doubts about that. Got a chance to play with it tonight and got it to receive a signal from a remote. Had to strip the ribbon cable end so we could hook it to power, but it works! Haven't tested range, but up close it works just like its supposed to.

[Elgin Clock]

It's all lot smaller than I thought.

Same thing I said when I saw it. It's smaller than the CMU camera board, by about half.

[ydnar90]

As i just finished reading through all the other posts I have a question for Dean Kamen, Dave Lavery, or our new sponsor diversified Systems (or any other official FIRST people): since it IS the season for gifts are there any other nice little hints you would like to give to the good little boys and girls who spend so much time theorizing and reading this thread? If there is a place with divsys's CAD file for the board I could use a link. Thanks and happy holidays!

[Milaki]

For the chip is FIRST sending out backups to teams or just one? :confused:

[DonRotolo]

The IR sensor component was donated by Vishay. We (diversifiedsystems) provided the layout, engineering, bare circuit boards, all the remainder of the components, and assembled it all. This was part of our sponsorship to FIRST, and specifically to all the teams. We have some other cool things coming....

BMW AKA Ben Michael Wrightsman for those that asked.
Ben, and all our friends at Diversified Systems Inc:

Thank you so very much for the generous donation. I humbly apologize for even thinking that DEC was involved (tells you where my head is at: I did not even realize it was December!) and failing to recognize your company's involvement. A big thanks to Vishay as well!

It must be so cool to work at (own?) a place where they have pick-n-place machines AND wave soldering equipment. Kind of like my idea of an amusement park, or maybe a shopping mall....

-...-

Anyway, Team 1676 got their little envelope today, and I think everyone needs to be reminded: This board is NOT large. It's about the size of the sensor board in the KOP last year, maybe 1.5" x 2.5"? The little square of paper with the web address on it is smaller than a business card. Think Small. All the more reason the believe it'll be mounted to the robot.

So, repeating what 09randy (oh, ydnar90) wrote: Hey, how 'bout a poem to go with this hint?

Don

[Jim E]

Maybe since every team is going to program this circuit with their own remote, perhaps the PIC contains enough RAM to download the settings to the camera for detecting different colors of goal lights.

It would be up to the driver team to bring their robot close enough to the driver station to control the PIC with the team's remote to detect the ever-changing goal light.