**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2

[Josh Fox]

If that's the case, the Michigan teams should do very well--the orange barrel is our state tree:D

don't forget the state motto:
"road work ahead" :D

[billbo911]

..... didn't anybody notice the infamous Dave's latest post (#48, on the page 24)? In the signature part on the bottom, it adds (and I think this is a new thing):

For the two - this season is for you.



"the two"
Could be the two hints we received, or........ could be Spirit and Opportunity. Two almost exclusively autonomous robots. You know the story.

[robogeek753]

I agree it probably has teams of two or three. Wouldn't it be cool with three or four teams playing?:)

Especially if, as some have suggested, we are playing a football like game and you combine two teams of two to make a four team super-alliance. Would also make the bracket structure REALLY interesting this year.

[robogeek753]

No, the season is for the two, the game is never for the hints; the hints are for the game. The season is for two of something else. (Teams in an alliance perhaps, i.e. its for the years we used two bots per alliance)

[MiniNerd24]

Ooooooh, I just thought of another thing, how about FIRST employees or workers in a one team alliance against the other teams typed example:
()
()-team 1
[]-team 2 [] F {}
{}-team 3
\/- team 4 \/
F -FIRST workers

And the FIRST people try to stop the others Like the House Robots on Robot Wars(unbiased control).
Sort of a King of the Hill thing.

[robogeek753]

It would be very hard to do that with teams in alliances, something FIRST seems to like. They aren't much for mono-e-mono (positive thats NOT how you spell it, oh well) matches.

[11Mort11]

"the two"
........ could be Spirit and Opportunity. Two almost exclusively autonomous robots. You know the story.

the game might have a more important or longer autonomous mode

[JaneYoung]

I just noticed a sponsor listed in a signature of a poster in CD. It is Nanosolar.

http://www.nanosolar.com/

I remembered a couple of posts in this thread regarding Nanosolar. In the company vision statement, they mention global warming. Global warming has been talked about regarding the hints.

I just thought it interesting.

[MiniNerd24]

:o By the way the last post I did, well, the text is messed up. It was supposed to be in a cross (clockwise) with Team 1 on top teams 2, F, and team 4 on the right, center and left(respectively) and team 3 on bottom.

[Big Kid]

No, the season is for the two, the game is never for the hints; the hints are for the game. The season is for two of something else. (Teams in an alliance perhaps, i.e. its for the years we used two bots per alliance)

accually your on to something maybe, because if you look at dave's sig at the very end the that, "My other car is still on Mars" sig and if you click on the Car part it sends you to the NASA page for the 4 year aniversary that Spirit is still functioning on Mars (they said it should of lasted only 90 days, but look at it now)

[robogeek753]

accually your on to something maybe, because if you look at dave's sig at the very end the that, "My other car is still on Mars" sig and if you click on the Car part it sends you to the NASA page for the 4 year aniversary that Spirit is still functioning on Mars (they said it should of lasted only 90 days, but look at it now)
But its for the two. Is the oppurtunity another Mars Rover. If it is, and the two refers to the two Mars Rovers then why is this season for them? Would they be good at performing the game? What exactly are they good at doing?

[MiniNerd24]

Maybe it refers to the fact that they were built to roam, manipulate, take pictures, and collect data from Mars?

[robogeek753]

Maybe it refers to the fact that they were built to roam, manipulate, take pictures, and collect data from Mars?
Hmmm... All of our robots "roam" and "manipulate", thats been part of the game from the beginning. But taking pictures, that would refer to a importance of the vision system (the season is for them, they are good at taking pictures, so we do to). Could the robots collect data (IR board maybe)? and use that in some way?

[JaneYoung]

But its for the two. Is the oppurtunity another Mars Rover. If it is, and the two refers to the two Mars Rovers then why is this season for them? Would they be good at performing the game? What exactly are they good at doing?

How much time have you got?

--
Basically - continuing to survive and perform tasks that continue to help our awesome folks at NASA in their exploration of different areas of Mars. Spirit and Opportunity are, indeed, the names of the robust rovers.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html

[Big Kid]

But its for the two. Is the oppurtunity another Mars Rover. If it is, and the two refers to the two Mars Rovers then why is this season for them? Would they be good at performing the game? What exactly are they good at doing?

Opportunity is the second of the two still active Mars Rover it is the brother of Spirit, well I know that Spirit landed on Mars on January 3rd (was part of the FLL during "Mission To Mars")and that isn't far off from the game kick-off for this year and I believe opportunity landed twelve days later, and they are only good at picking up rocks and digging holes and that rovering about thats pretty much it.

[Capt. Quirk]

342.242026 is the speed of sound in m/s @ 65' F

[MiniNerd24]

342.242026 is the speed of sound in m/s @ 65' F
Amazing that's a cool find:)
So far I've heard about the third number as bearing, speed of sound, IP address, frequency, temp(in Kelvins), and who knows what else. So what's left?:confused:

[DonRotolo]

There's no good way to get the speed of sound to so many decimal places, but that's close enough for me anyway. The number of decimal places is also troubling for bearing and temperature as well. As for IP address, since the highest number is limited to 255, having a 342 is right out.

Wow, the speed of light as compared to the speed of sound (acoustic sensors, anyone?) could be an element, and even if it's not, that would be cool for the future. Maybe the speed of dark (http://www.freakface.com/speedofdark/)?

Don

[MiniNerd24]

There's no good way to get the speed of sound to so many decimal places, but that's close enough for me anyway. The number of decimal places is also troubling for bearing and temperature as well. As for IP address, since the highest number is limited to 255, having a 342 is right out.

Wow, the speed of light as compared to the speed of sound (acoustic sensors, anyone?) could be an element, and even if it's not, that would be cool for the future. Maybe the speed of dark (http://www.freakface.com/speedofdark/)?

Don
Hey, my thoughts about the speed of dark is that it is as fast or faster than light(and maybe not even that).
As for the IP address check it out for yourself. I don't know how I found it so easily (even when the highest address is 255 :confused:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:342.24.20.26

[Jupshaw]

Has anyone though to just add and subtract

42.349905
-71.076072
+342.242026
-------------
313.515859... I don't know what it could be used for but its a simple ideal that most people may have overlooked and it could be important...I don't know just throwing my ideal out there.

[Scott Carpman]

I googled the number 313.515859 out of curiosity, and all I got was this thread. Oh well, back to the speculation.

[Capt. Quirk]

I think it just represents an UltraSonic Sensor like this (http://www.parallax.com/Store/Sensors/ObjectDetection/tabid/176/CategoryID/51/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/92/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2cProductName)

-71.076072 could be an angle?

[Éowyn]

342.242026 is the speed of sound in m/s @ 65' F

Good find. :)

From this data, I conclude that we must build robots cabable of surviving a 65' drop and maintain functionality. :p

I think it just represents an UltraSonic Sensor like this (http://www.parallax.com/Store/Sensors/ObjectDetection/tabid/176/CategoryID/51/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/92/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2cProductName)

-71.076072 could be an angle?

Wow. That'd be a really precise angle.

[artdutra04]

accually your on to something maybe, because if you look at dave's sig at the very end the that, "My other car is still on Mars" sig and if you click on the Car part it sends you to the NASA page for the 4 year aniversary that Spirit is still functioning on Mars (they said it should of lasted only 90 days, but look at it now)Dave's had the "My other car is still on Mars" as part of his signature for several years now.

[EricH]

Brain attack! OK, not really, but what about radians?

A conversion into radians yields:
0.73914528
-1.240511476
5.973250192

Into degrees from rads:
2426.470819=266.470819 on a circle
-4072.35895=-112.35895
308.017238234

I don't have Google Earth, so these are fair game for searching.

And, just for grins, as fractions (idea from ChrisH):
42 183/523
-71 55/723
342 84/347

[Vaillancourt88]

(acoustic sensors, anyone?)

Could you imagine, as loud as those arenas get?

As far as all the water talk...It would be VERY impractical, esp. since some venues (like Detroit) are on a gym floor...but then again, most people never thought we'd see projectiles in a game (a la 'Aim High')


PS: Played "Rock Band" for the first time tonight. -=<*AWESOME GAME!!!*>=- At 32 years old, I was the youngest one there! Now my voice is strained, my fingers are blistered, and my right thigh is killing me (bass drum pedal). To top it off, I'm jut getting home at 3am. Looks like I'm ready for build season. :D

[WillItBlend]

x^2+y^2=c^2

i tried that with the numbers, but concluded the third number does not equal c. however, when i divided c^2 by the third number, i got 20.00140819777115566748076695876

can this be in any way significant?
well that equation is a cartesian equation, used in cylindrical coordinates. so maybe the game involves cylindrical objects with a diameter of 20 centimeters or something.

[Tottanka]

x^2+y^2=c^2

i tried that with the numbers, but concluded the third number does not equal c. however, when i divided c^2 by the third number, i got 20.00140819777115566748076695876

can this be in any way significant?
well that equation is a cartesian equation, used in cylindrical coordinates. so maybe the game involves cylindrical objects with a diameter of 20 centimeters or something.

That is also the Pythagoeass equation for a traingle . Maybe the gmae pieces are trinagles?

[feliks_rosenber]

Well I have my own speculation.
Maybe that is the method for calculating the score.
Last year it was 2^N .
This year it might be x^2 + y^2 = c^2.
Makes sense, doesn't it ?

:o

[Akash Rastogi]

Well I have my own speculation.
Maybe that is the method for calculating the score.
Last year it was 2^N .
This year it might be x^2 + y^2 = c^2.
Makes sense, doesn't it ?

:o

Who came up with the idea of even including the Pythagorean theorem in this anyway? Because if its only something brought up by another CDer, I don't see a reason of why it should apply to the game hint numbers. :confused:

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Who came up with the idea of even including the Pythagorean theorem in this anyway? Because if its only something brought up by another CDer, I don't see a reason of why it should apply to the game hint numbers. :confused:

And yet we have 30 pages of GPS coordinates because a CDer came up with it :p

[Akash Rastogi]

And yet we have 30 pages of GPS coordinates because a CDer came up with it :p

I dont know..I still don't think that the pythag. theorem has anything to do with it though. The GPS coordinates were accurate and and came up with good results. So far, the pythag. theorem was random and came to no conclusions.

EDIT: Interesting idea though about the theorem if someone can build on it.

[MiniNerd24]

I dont know..I still don't think that the pythag. theorem has anything to do with it though. The GPS coordinates were accurate and and came up with good results. So far, the pythag. theorem was random and came to no conclusions.

I agree. It was a idea, but the GPS coordinates weren't as random.:)

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I dont know..I still don't think that the pythag. theorem has anything to do with it though. The GPS coordinates were accurate and and came up with good results. So far, the pythag. theorem was random and came to no conclusions.

For all we know it could be dimensions, or a series where the resultent curve is a formula that we'll need ... or ... or ... or. ;)

All I'm saying is don't knock anothers theory just because it doesn't jibe with your own ;)

[MiniNerd24]

Right.
:o Sorry Feliks:o

[Akash Rastogi]

For all we know it could be dimensions, or a series where the resultent curve is a formula that we'll need ... or ... or ... or. ;)

All I'm saying is don't knock anothers theory just because it doesn't jibe with your own ;)

not really trying to put it down, just saying show more evidence of that idea coming to a conclusion. Not meaning any harm or offense..that's not me:]

[Daniel_LaFleur]

not really trying to put it down, just saying show more evidence of that idea coming to a conclusion. Not meaning any harm or offense..that's not me:]

Maybe it's just me being thin-skinned ;) . It's just that we beat the GPS coords to death, without conclusion, and haven't yet even started to explore that the numbers may relate to Pythagorean theorem.

Just out of curiosity ... what sort of structure could be built out of a triangle (or triangles) with those dimensions?

In any case, lets keep having fun guessing ... and we'll all find out if anyone guessed it correctly on Jan 5.

[EricH]

Just out of curiosity ... what sort of structure could be built out of a triangle (or triangles) with those dimensions?Can you build anything with a negative length? (OK, so we use absolute value...)I'm not sure it's possible at all, in fact, it isn't.
42+71<342
If you have a triangle, the two shortest sides added together need to be longer than the longest side. This doesn't fit the bill.

[AndyB]

I'm sticking with the GPS idea. The odds that those coordinates point to an area on land, in america, in a major city, in a popular area tells me that these coordinates weren't exactly random and that they are indeed to be read as GPS coordinates.

Now I need to start figuring out the significance of the globe cafe and the oblesiks. My guess is some sort "Fortwars" type of game. If you are unfamiliar with Fortwars, it is an addon to HalfLife 2. The point of the game is to get a ball and retain possession of the ball for a prolonged period of time. I'm sure there is a better comparison than that.

What if the clue has something to do with Globe Motors? Does Globe make any other motors?

[Andrew Bates]

Don't know if this has been brought up before but I find it hard to believe that these numbers have anything to do with a measurement. The reason being they have 6 decimal places. I don't know of any tools that measure to six decimal places.

[Geekzilla201]

This is what I was able to get from reading 35 pages of ideas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coordinates: 42.34990
-71.076072
342.242026

A and B form the coordinates of Copley Square, Boston, MA

-John Hanncock building is located in Copley Square

-Building has arena-like top

-Building has mirrored sides which, when looked at in the proper place,
allow you to see the old Hanncock buildings

-Quad Streetlights in Copley Square migt be related to the FTC game "Quad Quandry"

-Quad Streetlights = Four light sources = Four Teams on Field

-Light reflects off of Hanncock building so Reflective sides on game field

-Song Truckin' (favorite song of Woodie or Dave)
Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

-"Barely See" could relate to Infrared Light

-Bounce Infrared Signals off of mirrors to be recieved

-Triangles and Squares in Copley Square, Globe Cafe is 342* from Copley Square

-Obelisks 342* from Copley Square could represent two game pieces

-Trinity Church (Copley Square) = 3 = Corners of Game Field (Such as the Hanncock Roof)

-December 21 (release date of clue) = National Treasure Release Date = Treasure under Trinity Church

-Paul Revere used Lights = National Treasure

-Add all three numbers=313.515859 3135~314 and 15859~159 so 314159~3.14159=pi

-Hanncock building has Red and Blue weather lights on roof

-National Treasure Connection: Reveres House is 343yds from Old North Church @ 343*

-Painter "Copley" painted a portrait of Revere

-Weather Beacons can show 4 colors (Red, RedFlash, Blue, BlueFlash)

-"For two, this seasons for you" Dave = Two Team Alliances
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone else have something I can add?

[JaneYoung]

- weight/counterweight

- a Tortoise and the Hare concept that Elgin introduced

[lbarger]

Hint 1: An infrared receiver capable of learning four signals.
Hint 2: 3 high precision numbers, 2 suggesting GPS location of Copley Square and a third with multiple possible solutions.

Connections to Paul Revere, the Revolutionary hero, and music (Paul Revere and the Raiders, the Beasty Boys and Greatful Dead's "Truckin").

It's "Dance Dance Revolution!" The robots will be SQUARE Dancing to the IR signals!

Sorry, my wife made me put this one in! :)

I really like the idea of traffic cones as game pieces and "Coupling Squares" as a game name. Even if they are not part of this year's game, look for them to show up in the future!

[Capt. Quirk]

- weight/counterweight



High precision #'s / The Grateful Dead

They are just messing with your minds :)

[Jack Jones]

Aim Higher Trinity!?

http://www.grovesrobotics.org/trinity.png

[whlspacedude]

I have not read everything but what if you switch the coordinates around?
71.076072 - 42.349905

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=71.076072+-+42.349905&ie=UTF8&ll=71.076061,-42.349892&spn=19.70802,82.265625&t=h&z=4&om=1

Were going to GREENLAND!!!!

(look slightly to the right there is something huge buried in the ice)

[Bsteckler]

Not Greenland, Antarctica.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=71.076072+-+42.349905&ie=UTF8&ll=-71.076061,42.349892&spn=19.70802,82.265625&t=h&z=4&om=1

Could someone good at Antarctic geography tell me the name of that location or if there are any important research centers there?

[11Mort11]

Maybe it's just me being thin-skinned ;) . It's just that we beat the GPS coords to death, without conclusion, and haven't yet even started to explore that the numbers may relate to Pythagorean theorem.

Just out of curiosity ... what sort of structure could be built out of a triangle (or triangles) with those dimensions?

In any case, lets keep having fun guessing ... and we'll all find out if anyone guessed it correctly on Jan 5.

tetras again

[Bill Tompkins]

One thing to keep in mind about PCM (pulse code modulated) IR transmitters (remotes), they will interfere with each other. If two or more PCM encoded IR signals are broadcast at the same time, they will interfere with each other. The decoder will not be able to use either signal.

I doubt FIRST would allow teams to use IR to contol the Robot becasue it would be too easy to jam each other. IR is invisible and would be impossible to prevent.

Whatever FIRST plans to do with them you can bet the IR beams will be separated. Probably beaming out from the center of the playfield in quadrature.

Another possiblilty, the signals (1 of 4) will be sent out at different times. Channel 1 for the first 15 second, channel 2 for the next, ... Maybe the Robots will have to follow and respond to these IR becons.

B

[11Mort11]

This is what I was able to get from reading 35 pages of ideas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coordinates: 42.34990
-71.076072
342.242026

A and B form the coordinates of Copley Square, Boston, MA

-John Hanncock building is located in Copley Square

-Building has arena-like top

-Building has mirrored sides which, when looked at in the proper place,
allow you to see the old Hanncock buildings

-Quad Streetlights in Copley Square migt be related to the FTC game "Quad Quandry"

-Quad Streetlights = Four light sources = Four Teams on Field

-Light reflects off of Hanncock building so Reflective sides on game field

-Song Truckin' (favorite song of Woodie or Dave)
Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

-"Barely See" could relate to Infrared Light

-Bounce Infrared Signals off of mirrors to be recieved

-Triangles and Squares in Copley Square, Globe Cafe is 342* from Copley Square

-Obelisks 342* from Copley Square could represent two game pieces

-Trinity Church (Copley Square) = 3 = Corners of Game Field (Such as the Hanncock Roof)

-December 21 (release date of clue) = National Treasure Release Date = Treasure under Trinity Church

-Paul Revere used Lights = National Treasure

-Add all three numbers=313.515859 3135~314 and 15859~159 so 314159~3.14159=pi

-Hanncock building has Red and Blue weather lights on roof

-National Treasure Connection: Reveres House is 343yds from Old North Church @ 343*

-Painter "Copley" painted a portrait of Revere

-Weather Beacons can show 4 colors (Red, RedFlash, Blue, BlueFlash)

-"For two, this seasons for you" Dave = Two Team Alliances
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone else have something I can add?
if the third number is a bearing it could point to new hampshire
dean kamen

some where in the first few pages

[robogeek753]

Just to clarify; the quote is "For the two this season is for you" It could mean two team alliances (the two refering to the seasons we had two team alliances) but the inclusion of "the" makes that possiblit slightly less likely. (i.e. reference to the Mars rovers and Dave's "other" car.

[11Mort11]

I have not read everything but what if you switch the coordinates around?
71.076072 - 42.349905

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=71.076072+-+42.349905&ie=UTF8&ll=71.076061,-42.349892&spn=19.70802,82.265625&t=h&z=4&om=1

Were going to GREENLAND!!!!

(look slightly to the right there is something huge buried in the ice)
its a boat buried in the ice

[7/16ths Master]

Hmmm, For The Two, this season is for you

For the two what? Could it have something to do with the two clues rather than anything about Mars? maybe we should also start thinking about the IR in addition with these three numbers rather than looking at both clues separately

[GRST]

I'm not sure if this has been thrown out there before, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't on the first 22 pages.

What if the IR directs (not receives) autonomous mode- you have to position your robot facing a transmitter and it will receive some code which it has to execute? I'm not a programmer so I have no idea if this is feasible at all.

I also like the maze idea. Hearing about the stuff on the Hancock Building, it might even be an obstacle course. Perhaps instead of IR boundaries as originally suggested (I'm building off of the above idea) you again receive the instructions which will blindly control the robot through part or all of the maze? But then the drivetrain would have to be standardized...

[1086VEX]

its a boat buried in the ice

it would be a huge boat...look at the size of greenland compared to the US its enormous...the boat would be like the length of VA sideways...:yikes: but it does look like one...

[chinckley]

After reading all this information on the previous 37 pages I
am concerned about the new teams and the teams without
endless resources in mentors being able to take in and
understand all this information and making sense of it.

I hope they certainly remember this when it comes to kickoff.

[Akash Rastogi]

After reading all this information on the previous 37 pages I
am concerned about the new teams and the teams without
endless resources in mentors being able to take in and
understand all this information and making sense of it.

I hope they certainly remember this when it comes to kickoff.

If that's the case, then I hope that teams come to CD for help. :D

[geeknerd99]

I had a weird dream about kickoff last night. The game featured these large blue and red tubes that I could fit in, about 6 feet high. They were transparent, and I guess lexan. They surrounded the field, but were on the outsides. There was also this weird framework on the field. Almost like Stack Attack.

And there was a lot with just Dave holding the IR board, talking, and closeups of the board. He never actually got around to saying what the board was for. I clearly remember that, because I kept asking myself, "WHAT'S IT FOR DAVE? WHAT'S IT FOR?"

I woke up convinced I knew exactly what the game was going to be. Then I realized it was only a dream.

[chinckley]

If that's the case, then I hope that teams come to CD for help. :D

CD???

[Akash Rastogi]

CD???

CD= Chief Delphi :D

[rees2001]

Ouch, this is a lot of info....

Over the past few days I stepped away from this thread & just thought. I thought about coordinates & latitude & longitude & north, south, east, west, & I watched my nephew, niece, & daughter play with their Christmas toys. I got thinking about Copley Square, & had thought. I'm done thinking about the clue until Kickoff....

What do Gerbils, Jello, Kinex, and the Greatful Dead have to do with the globe?

Stop the madness.

[alex1699]

This is what I was able to get from reading 35 pages of ideas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coordinates: 42.34990
-71.076072
342.242026

A and B form the coordinates of Copley Square, Boston, MA

-John Hanncock building is located in Copley Square

-Building has arena-like top

-Building has mirrored sides which, when looked at in the proper place,
allow you to see the old Hanncock buildings

-Quad Streetlights in Copley Square migt be related to the FTC game "Quad Quandry"

-Quad Streetlights = Four light sources = Four Teams on Field

-Light reflects off of Hanncock building so Reflective sides on game field

-Song Truckin' (favorite song of Woodie or Dave)
Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

-"Barely See" could relate to Infrared Light

-Bounce Infrared Signals off of mirrors to be recieved

-Triangles and Squares in Copley Square, Globe Cafe is 342* from Copley Square

-Obelisks 342* from Copley Square could represent two game pieces

-Trinity Church (Copley Square) = 3 = Corners of Game Field (Such as the Hanncock Roof)

-December 21 (release date of clue) = National Treasure Release Date = Treasure under Trinity Church

-Paul Revere used Lights = National Treasure

-Add all three numbers=313.515859 3135~314 and 15859~159 so 314159~3.14159=pi

-Hanncock building has Red and Blue weather lights on roof

-National Treasure Connection: Reveres House is 343yds from Old North Church @ 343*

-Painter "Copley" painted a portrait of Revere

-Weather Beacons can show 4 colors (Red, RedFlash, Blue, BlueFlash)

-"For two, this seasons for you" Dave = Two Team Alliances
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone else have something I can add?



Copley+ robots= http://www.copleycontrols.com/


so i don't no if the IR sensor hooks up up to the electronics we already use but i think the clue leads use to new electronics.

[Akash Rastogi]

Copley+ robots= http://www.copleycontrols.com/


so i don't no if the IR sensor hooks up up to the electronics we already use but i think the clue leads use to new electronics.

+ http://www.copleycontrols.com/motion/motors/

[Chernicki]

I think the IR board is for a quick change on your robot for autonomous mode.

[mormannoob]

Where did the water game idea come from? Its always mentioned but i never know how it got started.

[dr1008]

Where did the water game idea come from? Its always mentioned but i never know how it got started.

all of the extra tubes from last year, and what they were going to use them for

[BornaE]

**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
notice the #2 here. it means something.

I believe that the IR board is a FAKE because the Blast archive have been update and #2 is there but no sign of the first one.
you can check here
http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=6616

so i think #2 means something, maybe 2 bot alliances, or 2 light colors and 2 cameras for navigation.
this is all getting wierd.:D

[cgredalertcc]

well as futile as all this debating is (because we'll never know for sure until the fifth) I think that if they are in fact coordinates its got to be Copley square, because its the most cryptic and has the most potential for ideas going completely in the wrong direction. It just seems too easy to narrow things down if it is Greenland or Antarctica or whatever. Just my opinion.

[Roger]

Here is a captured shot of Google's location of 42.xxx, -71.xxx (green arrow) with degrees from North clockwise and counterclockwise. Notice how close 342.xxx CW is to the street grid. (Field checking might bring it exact.) The red rectangle is the approximate size of the 2007 game field, not placed anywhere in particular, but to give the scale of the location. The satellite photo shows something at the arrow spot. (I'm using Google because of their connection with FIRST.)

all of the extra tubes from last year, and what they were going to use them for

All the extra tubes were sold at the FIRST store and Building 19 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57948).

Outside of the "water game" joke, there could be different colored carpet indicating water which can't be crossed, etc.

I'm thinking of the six place precision of the three numbers. Could it be that the programming has to be switched from integer to -er- floating point?

because we'll never know for sure until the fifth
Even with some of their hints I'm not too sure even then we'd figure them out.:)
________________________
I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. - Mark Twain

[geeknerd99]

I think the IR board is for a quick change on your robot for autonomous mode.

They make switches for that nowadays.:p

[StephLee]

They make switches for that nowadays.:p

Indeed they do. We've used a custom one for the past two years. They work really well.

[DonRotolo]

It just seems too easy to narrow things down if it is Greenland or Antarctica or whatever.Greenland & Antarctica both have a lot of water, but in its solid state....Ice Game? (JK):yikes:
I'm thinking of the six place precision of the three numbers. Could it be that the programming has to be switched from integer to -er- floating point?
..Or.more precisely, the new Robot Controller we think is coming will be better suited to floating point math?

Just a few more days folks...

Don

[billbo911]

..Or.more precisely, the new Robot Controller we think is coming will be better suited to floating point math?

Just a few more days folks...

Don

I am starting to believe this more and more.
It would not surprise me that the second hint was formatted to look like GPS coordinates on purpose just to throw us off.
There are several other subtle clues and history that are pushing me in this direction. Only time will tell. :yikes:

[Roger]

I thought the new Robot Controller was coming out <counts on fingers> for the 2009 game? Kevin is certainly working on cleaning the code for this season anyway. While floating point math does make it easier (hey, I remember when the 8086 chip improved AutoCAD!), even trig can be done the old fashioned way. Not that I want to go back...

Custom switches? We do it thru the port 1 joystick buttons. While we couldn't catch which way the rack went we could change the autonomous after we put the robot on the field. We did have a 4-switch box on the robot the year before, but for some reason binary numbers (even "up down down up") confused the drivers :D . We did test a custom box into port 4 but using the joystick was easier.
_____________________
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty! - Douglas Adams

[AndyB]

Here is a captured shot of Google's location of 42.xxx, -71.xxx (green arrow) with degrees from North clockwise and counterclockwise. Notice how close 342.xxx CW is to the street grid. (Field checking might bring it exact.) The red rectangle is the approximate size of the 2007 game field, not placed anywhere in particular, but to give the scale of the location. The satellite photo shows something at the arrow spot. (I'm using Google because of their connection with FIRST.)



All the extra tubes were sold at the FIRST store and Building 19 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57948).

Outside of the "water game" joke, there could be different colored carpet indicating water which can't be crossed, etc.

I'm thinking of the six place precision of the three numbers. Could it be that the programming has to be switched from integer to -er- floating point?


Even with some of their hints I'm not too sure even then we'd figure them out.:)
________________________
I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. - Mark Twain

Great job with that map. I think this makes it conclusive. Globe Cafe.

[Code Monkey]

The fact that there are 4 led's suggests 4 corners - having a game that uses squares is over due as we have had triangles and circles several times.

Is there a circuit diagram for the hint board? I have gotten the PIC manual for the chip.

[coldabert]

474
Anthemius of Tralles
Ellipses

[Laaba 80]

I'm sorry, I know this is way off topic, but could somebody please tell me how to post new threads? I've been looking for about a half hour on how to do it, and I just can't find it. I knew many people follow this post, so I have the best chance of a response. Again, i'm sorry it's way off topic. Thanks

[bduddy]

It's right below all the topics, on the left side. I don't think you can post new topics on this board.

[MiniNerd24]

Man wouldn't it be terrible we were all losing sleep, paining big bucks for pain killers( for headaches ) and all of this chat about ice and water and Boston, only for us to find out it's much simpler. This is a great thread and you all are awesome hint figurers, but maybe we should sort of start over with the clue and then try each of our ideas out (not literally) to see which are plausible and which just seem to complicated? :o

[EricH]

all of the extra tubes from last year, and what they were going to use them forThe idea of a water game has been around long before then. Do a search for Water Game and find the oldest thread. It'll be several years old.

**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
notice the #2 here. it means something.

I believe that the IR board is a FAKE because the Blast archive have been update and #2 is there but no sign of the first one.
you can check here
http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=6616

so i think #2 means something, maybe 2 bot alliances, or 2 light colors and 2 cameras for navigation.
this is all getting wierd.:DJust remember, the possibility of the IR being a fake has already been debated in the thread about it in the Extra Discussion forum. It might be that the blast hasn't gone out to all teams yet. 2-team alliances? Been there, done that, can't get the teams through fast enough. 2 cameras? There was a reward offered to the first team to do that. It went unclaimed. 2 light colors? Maybe, but I doubt it. More likely one light color and an IR transmitter (or four) on the field.

[Kristian Calhoun]

2 cameras? There was a reward offered to the first team to do that. It went unclaimed.

Team 375 successfully used 2 cameras during the 2007 season - they won four technical awards, including Delphi's "Driving Tomorrow's Technology" at the Championship Event.

So, what was the reward? ;)

[EricH]

Team 375 successfully used 2 cameras during the 2007 season - they won four technical awards, including Delphi's "Driving Tomorrow's Technology" at the Championship Event.

So, what was the reward? ;)During the 2005 season, Dave offered (lots of) Krispy Kremes to the first programming team do have stereo vision. I'm not sure if that offer is still open. It went unclaimed at the time, even by Kevin Watson (who did make a stab at it).

[lukevanoort]

This thread is so random and full of overanalysis of the smallest things; I feel like I am back in my English class discussing why Kathy saying "I left" is a subtle reference to the title of Never Let Me Go and how that shows Ishiguro's ideas on blah blah blah. :) Actually, I could probably take a paragraph from the (rough draft) of my term paper for English and swap the word 'Camus' for 'Dave', 'absurdist' and 'existentialist' for 'water game,' 'L'Hote' for 'the game,' 'Daru' for 'the hint,' and 'the Arab' for 'FIRSTers' (plus a few other swaps) and have it make sense in this thread.

Joking aside, here's my thoughts:

All of the game hints share the general concept of determining information about the state of something from a distance without being physically there/connected to it. (IR remote detector, long/lat & google earth). So, I think this means that, while a robot makes its own path through the field, the course of a robot's motions are set at a distance (unconnected to the robot), which stands in opposition to the ideas of water games (ie radios don't work well under water).

In a central idea of the game hint discussion, FIRSTers are left with a choice: to follow the path to the unlikely, and a water game; or to continue with carpet, and face the truth of an incomprehensible hint. This choice acts as a sort of divining rod; every moment Dave presents us with with hints (jello, kites, bad jokes, etc), and, while a person's decisions may be influenced by outside forces (desires, other hints, fear), the choice of what to do is ultimately their's, and thus, the hints reveal the inner souls and desires of FIRSTers worldwide.

Hey, it worked!:D

[AndyB]

My best guess is similar to 04. Globe Cafe to me signifies in its simpilest form, a large ball. My guess is some sort of capping... or it could anything that has to do with planets... Could just mean its a ball game again this year.

[alicen]

if you really want something to just pull at your brain, i've heard that the people who build the fields for kickoff, have said that they have no idea what the game could be, even though they have the field element drawings in addition to these hints.:ahh:

[artdutra04]

if you really want something to just pull at your brain, i've heard that the people who build the fields for kickoff, have said that they have no idea what the game could be, even though they have the field element drawings in addition to these hints.:ahh:http://publicspace.ca/spacing/wade-jello2.jpg

I'd be confused with a wading pool full of Jello too. :rolleyes:

[robochick1319]

You know guys, these clues seem fascinating and all but really we should just relax and wait for kickoff.

After 5 years in robotics I have come to realize that these game hints are so ambigious and vague that they can hint at a multitude of complex games when the real game is much simpler.

This thread is great for getting those creative juices flowing but y'all should just enjoy the rest of your holiday and rest up for another crazy season.

:)

[Karthik]

My best guess is similar to 04. Globe Cafe to me signifies in its simpilest form, a large ball. My guess is some sort of capping... or it could anything that has to do with planets... Could just mean its a ball game again this year.

An Atlas ball that needs to be manuevered between two large uprights. Analagous to how the Globe Cafe is between the two obelisks in Copley Square.

[Richard Wallace]

An Atlas ball that needs to be manuevered between two large uprights. Analagous to how the Globe Cafe is between the two obelisks in Copley Square.It would really be cool if the ball were about eight feet in diameter -- large enough for someone to get inside .... :rolleyes:

[11Mort11]

An Atlas ball that needs to be manuevered between two large uprights. Analagous to how the Globe Cafe is between the two obelisks in Copley Square.

like last years vex game

[AndyB]

It would really be cool if the ball were about eight feet in diameter -- large enough for someone to get inside .... :rolleyes:

Or made out of solid stone...

Worlds Strongest Robot anyone?

[Scott Carpman]

It would really be cool if the ball were about eight feet in diameter -- large enough for someone to get inside .... :rolleyes:

The human player role would take on a whole new meaning :D

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Or made out of solid stone...

Worlds Strongest Robot anyone?

A 100 LB ball would be ~ 12.5" dia.

Talk about a challenge ... I could see a few crunched robots if one of those things got dropped.

[DonRotolo]

Or made out of solid stone...
Or hollow stone...

[GaryVoshol]

It would really be cool if the ball were about eight feet in diameter -- large enough for someone to get inside .... :rolleyes:

Karthik, you're lucky you are not eligible to be the human player!

[glittergirl211]

The coordinates could be the site of the John Singleton Copley statue in Copley square and the compass heading the direction in which the statue is facing.

As an MS Excel date and time, 342.242026 is Dec. 7 1900 5:48:31 AM.

Other features of Copley Square:
Trinity Church
The plaza in front of the church
The fountain
Tortoise and Hare sculpture
Boston Marathon Centennial Monument

It appears to be an open plaza near the John Hancock Hotel in Boston. An azimuth of 342 would send you approximately parallel with Dartmouth Street.

[Alan Anderson]

It would really be cool if the ball were about eight feet in diameter -- large enough for someone to get inside .... :rolleyes:

Has anyone ever considered making the human player into a game piece before?

[Brandon Holley]

Has anyone ever considered making the human player into a game piece before?

cool factor....through the roof

safety factor....not very great

[JoeXIII'007]

Has anyone ever considered making the human player into a game piece before?

:yikes:

only with considerable safety precautions would I even consider being a live animated game piece with not-so-fully tested possibly industrial strength robots all around me trying to put me someplace, such as a cage...

seems like a fun thought though... :D a crazy game of tag...

[EricH]

The coordinates could be the site of the John Singleton Copley statue in Copley square and the compass heading the direction in which the statue is facing.

As an MS Excel date and time, 342.242026 is Dec. 7 1900 5:48:31 AM.

Other features of Copley Square:
Trinity Church
The plaza in front of the church
The fountain
Tortoise and Hare sculpture
Boston Marathon Centennial Monument

It appears to be an open plaza near the John Hancock Hotel in Boston. An azimuth of 342 would send you approximately parallel with Dartmouth Street.Sigh...did you read the thread? We've already come up with those, other than the time one. (And yes, the coordinates are the statue's location.)

Hmm...What happened at 5:48 AM on 12/7/1900? Anyone know? I don't.

And I understand reading 500+ posts does take a while. I think pages one and two have the coordinates mapped. (As a side note, they've also been placed in the Antarctic and in Greenland, and mapped on Mars.)

[artdutra04]

Hmm...What happened at 5:48 AM on 12/7/1900? Anyone know? I don't.A few million people woke up, and found nothing major in the headlines.

This is a thumbnail view from an online microfilm archive of the New York Times of 7 December, 1900. I don't want to pay money to read the entire thing online, when I could just go to the library tomorrow and read it (or one of the local newspapers) on their microfilm machines for free.

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8017/52170345lxtx7.jpg

[Optimizer]

Sigh...did you read the thread? We've already come up with those, other than the time one. (And yes, the coordinates are the statue's location.)

Hmm...What happened at 5:48 AM on 12/7/1900? Anyone know? I don't.

And I understand reading 500+ posts does take a while. I think pages one and two have the coordinates mapped. (As a side note, they've also been placed in the Antarctic and in Greenland, and mapped on Mars.)

Actually, if I've figured anything out, it's that the coodinates do NOT correspond to the location of the statue, which is located further east - within the trees. The object that has appeared in the imagery is likely two or four people that were simply standing there - it's definitely NOT the statue (or the "quad" lamppost that was also talked about).

Beyond that, I'm pretty much sold on the 3rd number being a compass bearing, since it lines up pretty well with the grid the streets around there follow. Clearly, the idea is to stand somewhere in the Square (not 100% sure of where), look in that direction (towards Boylston St), and see something meaningful.

Oh, and the real name of the restaurant being mentioned at length is the "Globe Bar & Cafe" (vs. "Globe Bar & Grill", or "Globe Cafe).

Also, it seems like it's a strong hint that perhaps floating-point math will be an issue.

[AndyB]

Does anyone in Boston have a GPS unit or what?

[Optimizer]

Nobody has gone out there with a GPS set - or at least nobody has reported HERE about having done so - so what we have is whatever web sites give us (which can be inaccurate, and don't necessarily agree 100%).

For what it's worth, I pieced together part of a USGS topo quadrangle (data taken off Terraserver; I have attached a small portion here), and used the tick marks to estimate where the location is (marked in purple). Then I calculated where the spot across the street would be (marked in blue), using the bearing. It comes out about 100 ft east of the dominant location we've seen here. As far as I can tell, there's nothing special there (does anybody know better?), and across the street at that point there's just a Wendy's and a Burger King.

Because that location was so meaningless, and maybe that source isn't any better, I'm inclined to accept the "standard" location we've seen here anyway. The view from there has several interesting items:

1) Tortoise and Hare statues, which I have finally figured out are right in front of my next item.
2) Fountain/pool (coupled with the hint that water might be involved, this seems meaningful).
3) Dual obelisks (looks like a goal post).
4) Globe Bar and Cafe, across the street - although as best as I can tell, the line-of-sight through the obelisks really points to the place next door (to the west of it).

That's my bottom line, at this point. :]

[Richard Wallace]

Has anyone ever considered making the human player into a game piece before?Who said anything about a human player? I was talking about Karthik!

It would be cool to have the emcee inside a gamepiece. Imagine the play by play commentary!

[Roger]

Sorry, I don't have a GPS unit, but I do have a camera and the gumption to dare Copley Square on New Years Eve afternoon. Unfortunately I forgot to bring a parking spot but I managed to stop at a No Stopping Any Time zone (behind a police car!) and take a picture. They are setting up for ice sculptures all over CS and especially in the All Important (42.349905, -71.076072) spot.

The photo is from St. James Avenue, facing generally northwest, between Trinity Church (on the right) and John Hancock Tower (behind to the left). The crosswalk sign is for the Trinity Place crosswalks. Boston Public Library is under the crosswalk sign. Old South Church is the building in the center with the tower. The locus point is to the right of the trailer full of ice, within the fenced in area.

I don't know what they were doing within the fenced in area. They should have (by this time ~2 pm) have had the makings of an ice sculpture. The blueish tower near the right side of Old South Church and the left of the man taking the picture at the foot of Trinity Church's steps I believe is a temporary light tower.

Optimizer: I'm basing the GPS location on Google maps, only because of their sponsorship with FIRST and they allow numbers for location. Though, oddly, Microsoft's maps.live.com has a clearer aerial view (http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=42.350061~-71.076067&style=h&lvl=19&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=951627&ss=yp.42%402349905%20%2C%20-71%402076072~pg.1~sst.0&encType=1), and the four "bird's eye" views too. (I'm assuming that link works.)

The only true location would be by on-site GPS. (Presumably the FIRST Hinters would be using the same GPS points and thus have the same error.) You are right that the Globe Bar and Cafe is not centered on the dual obelisks. They do have a website (http://www.globebarandcafe.com/)! (Their menu font needs a bit of tweaking.)

There is nothing in the plaza in front of Trinity Church. The Tortoise and Hare statues are towards Boylston St. Maybe this is the game of Nothing -- sounds very Existentialist (or, for you young 'uns, very Seinfeldish).

Does anyone in Boston have a GPS unit or what?
I am surprised that I'm the only one (in the Boston area, for those out-of-town wiseguys) that does site visits. Maybe they purposely posted the Hint after all the college students went home for break so no one would actually go to the site. I couldn't find the quote I wanted but I guess Mark Twain can say it no other way....
______________________
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. -Mark Twain

[Roger]

What happened at 5:48 AM on 12/7/1900?
December 7, 1900 (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_7)) - Max Planck, in his house at Grunewald, on the outskirts of Berlin, discovers the law of black body (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Planck#Black-body_radiation) emission.

Squinting at artdutra04's NYT front page, I see it was at approximately 11:48 in the morning (Berlin local time). It was a Friday. Go ahead, prove me wrong. :)

(Actually, artdutra04, if you want the news of December 7, 1900, you have to look at the next day's paper.)
_________________________
It is not the possession of truth, but the success which attends the seeking after it, that enriches the seeker and brings happiness to him. -Max Planck

[ElectronJohn]

O.K. Now my brief two cents of input.

1) GPS coordinates and compass bearing plus Hint 1 - are they re-introducing the IR tracking beacons?
The GPS location may not be the Statue of John Copley, but lets follow that train of thought for a moment.
2) He is standing on a pedestal in the middle of an open area. Maybe we can expect a pedestal in the middle of the playing field.
3) Looking up John S Copley in Wikipedia - one can find his paintings. For the late 1700s the colors are stunningly brilliant. I expect illuminated targets of several colors.
4) Reading Wikipedia, I followed the link "The Defeat of the Floating Batteries at Gibraltar, September 1782" and read about that. It appears the British developed the innovative "hot potato" to destroy the barriers. I don't know about any burning hot objects, but "hot potato" would be a good contest name. (Have a game piece the opposing team(s) don't want)
5) I think Hint 1 is pretty much self contained. FRC will allow teams to use a TV remote along with their playstation controller. The one exception would be the use of "standard" IR signals as part of the playing field. These "standard" signals would match a particular remote control included in everyone's kits. Thus teams could train their bots to the standard playing field signals.
6)Too bad the compass bearings aren't pointing to McDonalds and BurgerKing The contest would be flame broiled vs. fried.
7) I much like the idea of December 7th 1900 being the discovery of black body radiation. That seems to fit with the IR controller.
8) I doubt water will ever be used since owners of large open buildings rarely like the idea of water running around their floors as teams debug their bot's water handling capabilities. Water also wreaks havoc with electronic circuits.


EJ:)

[ALIBI]

My apologies if this has been covered (long thread, I did search this thread for beacon and didn't find any talking about Beacon Hill). The location and direction point towards a section of Boston known as Beacon Hill. At one time the hill did have a beacon on top of it. The wiki for Beacon Hill says that it was mostly torn down to fill in Back Bay to allow for more land for development. Could the game be either assembling a hill or taking down a hill or moving around game pieces to fill in holes/gaps the robots have to go over, i.e. building land bridges?

[Bharat Nain]

I think the game hint is very simple and all of us are way over analyzing it. It probably has something simple to do with something on the co ordinates/bearing. Note: I am not saying that we should not brainstorm and analyze but this is what gives GDC their laughs I guess. :yikes:

[Elgin Clock]

...and across the street at that point there's just a Wendy's and a Burger King.

A Wendy's you say? How very peculiar...

Anyone remember the name of the FIRST competition in 2003? :)

In a statement, Wendy's said the new "Stack Attack" burger would help reel in cash-strapped consumers struggling with rising gas prices and other "financial pressures."


http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1850374220071218

But there couldn't be a possible link there... now could there? ;)

[JaneYoung]

I think the game hint is very simple and all of us are way over analyzing it. It probably has something simple to do with something on the co ordinates/bearing.

Well, here's a thought -
could the field/field element(s) be relatively simple and become more complicated with options/opportunities presented for teams to take advantage of or not.

Rack 'n' Roll was like that in several areas, in my opinion. Lots of levels of involvement during design/build and during the competition among the alliances.

This is neither here nor there but all the spires around the area of Copley Square would invite a great ring toss or stacking game. (I know, this has been suggested. :))

[Roger]

Mmmm.... Wendy's and a Burger King

over analyzing it

C'mon, I'm tracking down a possibility that if you mix up the letters in "black body" it comes out to an obscure 14th century (infra)red-haired poet Abby L. Dock that wrote sonnets about a tortoise and a hare playing in water, on a Friday morning. C'mon, ask your English teacher about her! If he/she denies it, then you know it's a conspiracy! It all fits, I tells ya!

But I'd rather have a Whopper.

[Bharat Nain]

Well, here's a thought -
could the field/field element(s) be relatively simple and become more complicated with options/opportunities presented for teams to take advantage of or not.

Rack 'n' Roll was like that in several areas, in my opinion. Lots of levels of involvement during design/build and during the competition among the alliances.

This is neither here nor there but all the spires around the area of Copley Square would invite a great ring toss or stacking game. (I know, this has been suggested. :))

Anything is possible. Let's say we know that the game object is a ball like 2006. Even then, the most we can do is brain storm robot ideas but not much more than that because we are not certain of anything. Besides, the real key to even thinking of a good robot design is in the rules book. This will never be seen until after kickoff.

If I had to guess, an object around those co ordinates represents the game object or the field and it is something relatively simple. I have not kept up with this thread or the game hint mostly because this year I do not feel the need to decrypt the game hint. But I hope all of you are having fun :D

[Cynette]

Wouldn't a globe big enough for something or someone to move around in fulfill the gerbil hint?

And I love the traffic cone / maze idea! After all, Boston has been the home of the "Big Dig, " which has meant traffic cones for years and years!

[themagic8ball]

I can't believe nobody found this yet:

The old John Hancock Building has a weather beacon at its peak, which somebody around page 11 connected to the 342 number. Well according to Wikipedia, this beacon flashes Red and Blue!

Steady blue, clear view.
Flashing blue, clouds due.
Steady red, rain ahead.
Flashing red, snow instead.

Could be two new lights and each signals a different portion of the game (and scoring).

[Spylake]

342.242026 is the Molecular weight of C11H17Cl2N3O3S

(3-methyl-2-methylsulfinyl-imidazol-4-yl)methyl N,N-bis(2-chloroethyl)carbamate

[Roger]

Boston's "Big Dig" officially ended Monday night, at least in terms of all the contracts.

342.242026 is the Molecular weight of C11H17Cl2N3O3S
Now that's an obscure reference!

8) I doubt water will ever be used since owners of large open buildings rarely like the idea of water running around their floors
We've played in Manchester and Boston, and both arenas have had water all over the floor, with the owners' approval. (Ice skating rinks!:D )

[AndyB]

Boston's "Big Dig" officially ended Monday night, at least in terms of all the contracts.


Now that's an obscure reference!


We've played in Manchester and Boston, and both arenas have had water all over the floor, with the owners' approval. (Ice skating rinks!:D )

It might be hard to guarantee every competition location and kickoff location to be okay with having large amounts of water in the area, as well as the fact that fields must be buildable by teams. Water makes things hard. Not many teams could find a spot to stick a giant aquarium...

[Spylake]

342 is Babe Ruth's life time batting average in round numbers, maybe if you calculate the number to full precision it is 342.242026.

Played for the Bosox too .. and Fenway park is right next to Copley Square.

Could it be a baseball based contest?

[Elgin Clock]

342 is Babe Ruth's life time batting average in round numbers, maybe if you calculate the number to full precision it is 342.242026.

Played for the Bosox too .. and Fenway park is right next to Copley Square.

Could it be a baseball based contest?

If by "right next to" you mean 6 miles, then sure.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=42.349905,+-71.076072&daddr=4+Yawkey+Way+Boston,+MA+02215&sll=42.346714,-71.073174&sspn=0.021156,0.039911&ie=UTF8&ll=42.347507,-71.087379&spn=0.021156,0.039911&z=15&om=1



And, I just remembered this past weekend the only obscure reference I recall that someone, who is named Woodie, made about Boston.

Sometimes, he said, he wonders how much society understands or appreciates scientific achievement. Using the Ted Williams Tunnel to make this point, Professor Flowers said, "Here you have a multimillion-dollar engineering triumph, and it's named after a guy who could hit a rock with a stick."

Quoted from both here:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1997/techday-0611.html
& also paraphrased here:
http://bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/documents/01710000.htm

[JaneYoung]

I can't believe nobody found this yet:

The old John Hancock Building has a weather beacon at its peak, which somebody around page 11 connected to the 342 number. Well according to Wikipedia, this beacon flashes Red and Blue!



Could be two new lights and each signals a different portion of the game (and scoring).

That has been discussed and Elgin provided a picture, woohoo!
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=663234&postcount=383

[Spylake]

If by "right next to" you mean 6 miles, then sure.


I guess I should have left the MIT campus more when I lived there. But I do know what a Smoot is.:)

[Roger]

If by "right next to" you mean 6 miles, then sure.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...9911&z=15&om=1
Might be quicker via Comm Ave and Kenmore Square; the area around Berklee gets kind of messy. Depends also if my boss is driving or not :)

Ha! I once changed a floor plan to dimension in Smoots, in honor of a boss I once worked for who went to MIT. He was not amused.

[Kiwi]

1) GPS coordinates and compass bearing plus Hint 1 - are they re-introducing the IR tracking beacons?
The GPS location may not be the Statue of John Copley, but lets follow that train of thought for a moment.
...
3) Looking up John S Copley in Wikipedia - one can find his paintings. For the late 1700s the colors are stunningly brilliant. I expect illuminated targets of several colors.
4) Reading Wikipedia, I followed the link "The Defeat of the Floating Batteries at Gibraltar, September 1782" and read about that. It appears the British developed the innovative "hot potato" to destroy the barriers. I don't know about any burning hot objects, but "hot potato" would be a good contest name. (Have a game piece the opposing team(s) don't want)
EJ:)

The 'hot potato' idea is really interesting. What if the game piece has different modes that change what score it gets or what you need to do with it, and we use the IR to determine what mode it's in?

Also, going back to the K'Nex in the first hint, what if we sense whether a piece is red or blue using the IR, then connect it to another piece of the correct color to score... But we could lose points if we incorrectly identify it, of if it changes.

Thinking a bit further outside the box (and my appologies in advance if this has already been suggested in the past 7 pages of this thread), or maybe inside the box- we had tetras for triangles, ringers for circles, so the 08 game could use cubic or square game pieces. It could be a game of stacking cubes, but you could include the gerbil hint if our task were to assemble "cages" out of square game pieces. Or maybe we'd have to put a color-changing "hot potato" into a box.

[dlavery]

I guess I should have left the MIT campus more when I lived there. But I do know what a Smoot is.:)

Maybe. But do you remember the length of the Harvard Bridge, measured in Smoots (without looking it up)? :)


-dave




.

[billbo911]

Maybe. But do you remember the length of the Harvard Bridge, measured in Smoots (without looking it up)? :)

-dave

.

I know one thing:
Smoot = (1/(364.4-ear))*(Harvard Bridge length)

<Yes, I looked it up>:eek:

[JoeXIII'007]

Oh dear... he changed his signature once again... at least the middle line...

:eek::confused::ahh::confused::eek:

Oh well... less than two days to go... we'll know soon enough

[dlavery]

I know one thing:
Smoot = (1/(364.4-ear))*(Harvard Bridge length)

<Yes, I looked it up>:eek:

Then you would be, within the formal definition associated with the cited precision, incorrect.

Yeah, I am a stickler for details. But that is what details are for. :)

-dave






.

[billbo911]

Then you would be, within the formal definition associated with the cited precision, incorrect.

Yeah, I am a stickler for details. But that is what details are for. :)

-dave

.
Interesting!
I do believe the formal citation, from memory is, 364.4 plus or minus one ear. The plus or minus was to indicate the uncertainty of the measurement.

So, if precision is what we are after, then the the original determination of the measurement was flawed and can not be used as a basis for a precise answer.
I must say, I agree about detail. May favorite expression regarding this subject is: " Success lies in the details".

[Spylake]

Maybe. But do you remember the length of the Harvard Bridge, measured in Smoots (without looking it up)? :)

-dave


.

364 sounds close, within an ear or two. Hmmmmm... I wonder if the metric equivalent is 342.242026 CentiSmoots

[Spylake]

Maybe. But do you remember the length of the Harvard Bridge, measured in Smoots (without looking it up)? :)


-dave

.

Speaking of measurement precision. Can we assume the number of significant digits in your hints are no accident?

[JaneYoung]

Yeah, I am a stickler for details. But that is what details are for. :)

-dave






.

I looked up the definition for stickler. I think Dave is playing with us again.
From the American Heritage Dictionary
Stickler:

1. One who insists on something unyieldingly
2. Something puzzling or difficult.

[GRST]

364 sounds close, within an ear or two. Hmmmmm... I wonder if the metric equivalent is 342.242026 CentiSmoots

Well, if a Smoot is about 5 feet 7 inches (or 1.7 meters), then you have a discrepancy of 22.2 (sig figs included) Smoots. That is, if the 342.242026 number is a length in Smoots. That's a difference of 37.7 meters, or 123 feet. Not quite an ear, unless we have an unclear definition of 'ear.'

But if there was some standardized metric form of Smoots, maybe we could come in closer.

[MiniNerd24]

Ok I write this quick.
1. What is a Smoot?
2. What Gerbil hint?
3. What if the game were :o 'Smoot Scoot'?
4. Too bad we can't ask someone from a Boston historical building about the square.
5. YES!!! Three more days!!! and we finally find out if our thoughts were right!!!

[Elgin Clock]

Maybe. But do you remember the length of the Harvard Bridge, measured in Smoots (without looking it up)? :)
-dave
.
side tracked topic.
off tangent topic.
side tracked discussion.
sherlock holmes type deductions.
etc, etc, etc...

::sigh::

And this is why I believe in the Chaos Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory) (AKA: Butterfly Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect)).
But it should be renamed The Dave Effect in all fairness to the inspiration of this theory here in FIRSTworld.

Just as a butterfly's wings has the potential to cause a tornado halfway around the world, Dave's postings has potential to add at least 100 more pages to this evergrowing thread... and influence a Sherlock Holmes type mind-set to anyone who reads his posts.


Congratulations Dave.
You now have a Controlled(?) Chaos Theory named in your honor.

Anyone care to log onto the FIRST wiki site and write some entries on that topic any time soon?? :rolleyes:

[Richard Wallace]

... Congratulations Dave. You now have a Controlled(?) Chaos Theory named in your honor. ...Dave does not control chaos. Dave inspires chaos. Inspiration is what FIRST is all about. :)

[Elgin Clock]

Dave does not control chaos. Dave inspires chaos. Inspiration is what FIRST is all about. :)

Ahh... I stand corrected, and will agree to that one... For sure. :cool:
Thanks!

[dlavery]

Interesting!
I do believe the formal citation, from memory is, 364.4 plus or minus one ear. The plus or minus was to indicate the uncertainty of the measurement.

So, if precision is what we are after, then the the original determination of the measurement was flawed and can not be used as a basis for a precise answer.
I must say, I agree about detail. May favorite expression regarding this subject is: " Success lies in the details".

The original measurement was given as "364.4 Smoots, plus or minus an ear." With this, we knew both the precision and the tolerance of the measurement. The original measurement was accurate, within the tolerance specified (noting that tolerance was determined by the equipment used for the original measurement - a unit of precisely one Smoot). The citation of "364.4 Smoots, minus an ear" would be incorrect, in that it implies a precision that does not actually exist. Furthermore, it fails to provide any indication of an acceptable tolerance (it is noted that it could be argued that the "minus an ear" phrase could be an indication of tolerance, but in that case it over-constrains the measurement by doubling the tolerance requirement - which I would find to be intolerable :) ).

Why do we care about whether Smoot's ear is added or subtracted from the length of the Harvard Bridge? Because both precision and tolerance are important concepts within the engineering world, and worth understanding. Their use (or lack thereof) enables us to clearly communicate when accuracy is critical, and when "close enough" is "good enough." And in the real world, that knowledge translates very quickly into dollars (saved or required).



"side tracked topic."

"off tangent topic."

"side tracked discussion."
etc, etc, etc...
::sigh:: ...

Who says they are off tangent or side-tracked? I find the discussion of centi-Smoots one of the more interesting ideas in this whole thread. :)

-dave




.

[Eric O]

Here is my stab at it. I think most people are correct in saying that the first 2 numbers are coordinates which take you to Copley Square. The last digit is actually an elevation. The question is in what units?

Well, I believe it is in Cubits. To make sense of it all, 342.242026 Royal Egyptian Cubits is about 587.391732 feet or about 58 stories. What is at an elevation of 58 stories in Copley Square? Well....this:

A mass damper system in the John Hancock Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hancock_Tower)

Welcome back dynamic stabilization....

[JoeXIII'007]

Why do we care about whether Smoot's ear is added or subtracted from the length of the Harvard Bridge? Because both precision and tolerance are important concepts within the engineering world, and worth understanding. Their use (or lack thereof) enables us to clearly communicate when accuracy is critical, and when "close enough" is "good enough." And in the real world, that knowledge translates very quickly into dollars (saved or required).

...

Who says they are off tangent or side-tracked? I find the discussion of centi-Smoots one of the more interesting ideas in this whole thread. :)

-dave

I wonder what those game hint numbers translate to when using smoots... if anything...

[billbo911]

The original measurement was given as "364.4 Smoots, plus or minus an ear." With this, we knew both the precision and the tolerance of the measurement. The original measurement was accurate, within the tolerance specified (noting that tolerance was determined by the equipment used for the original measurement - a unit of precisely one Smoot). The citation of "364.4 Smoots, minus an ear" would be incorrect, in that it implies a precision that does not actually exist. Furthermore, it fails to provide any indication of an acceptable tolerance (it is noted that it could be argued that the "minus an ear" phrase could be an indication of tolerance, but in that case it over-constrains the measurement by doubling the tolerance requirement - which I would find to be intolerable :) ).

.

I see your point and must acknowledge, in fact, my equation was in error. :mad:

I had made an assumption, for which I must apologize, that the weather conditions on that October day in 1961 (class of 1962) would have been quite warm. You see, where I live on the west coast, October afternoons can easily be in the mid 80's to upper 90's. I chose to use the "Smoot = (1/(364.4-ear))*(Harvard Bridge length)" equation assuming there would have been quite a bit of expansion of the bridge due to the temperature. Not knowing along which axis the ear was measured, I assumed,(there I go again), it's length. Approximating a 5' 7" tall man's ear to be 2.25", I figured this would be close enough to account for the assumed expansion. I then subtracted this amount, incorrectly I might add, to account for the assumed expansion. When in fact, instead of subtracting it from the divisor, it should have been subtracted from the product to yield a length that had been corrected for temperature. In other words, if my assumption was correct, the equation should have been Smoot = ((1/364.4)*(Harvard Bridge length)) - ear.

Now, based on your need for accuracy and tolerance, the equation would be:
Smoot = (1/(364.4 +/- ear))*(Harvard Bridge length), correct?

There, have I smeared enough mud on this to cover my error???

[Cactus_Robotics]

I Havent Been Really Keeping Up on Here & Dont Want To Go Through 40+ Pages But... Has anyone Mentioned, Copley Square is near the finish line of the Boston Marathon. If the lat/lon is of a statue there, maybe the 3rd number is the heading that points from the statue to the finish line?

MIT was also founded here, prior to moving to Cambridge.

[dlavery]

I see your point and must acknowledge, in fact, my equation was in error. :mad:

I had made an assumption, for which I must apologize, that the weather conditions on that October day in 1961 (class of 1962) would have been quite warm. You see, where I live on the west coast, October afternoons can easily be in the mid 80's to upper 90's. I chose to use the "Smoot = (1/(364.4-ear))*(Harvard Bridge length)" equation assuming there would have been quite a bit of expansion of the bridge due to the temperature. Not knowing along which axis the ear was measured, I assumed,(there I go again), it's length. Approximating a 5' 7" tall man's ear to be 2.25", I figured this would be close enough to account for the assumed expansion. I then subtracted this amount, incorrectly I might add, to account for the assumed expansion. When in fact, instead of subtracting it from the divisor, it should have been subtracted from the product to yield a length that had been corrected for temperature. In other words, if my assumption was correct, the equation should have been Smoot = ((1/364.4)*(Harvard Bridge length)) - ear.

Now, based on your need for accuracy and tolerance, the equation would be:
Smoot = (1/(364.4 +/- ear))*(Harvard Bridge length), correct?

Ahhh, I think we may have identified the source of the confusion. You had assumed that the length of "an ear" in the original measurement was a 2.25 inches, the size of a five-foot-seven-inch-tall man's ear. However, in this particular case, the original lore reveals that the "ear" is allegedly the width of the ear hole in the football helmet that Smoot was while lying prone upon the bridge. So, an approximation of 1.0-1.5 inches may be more correct. This interpretation may be further supported when considering the effects of the local weather at the time the measurement was made. A football helmet would be a suitable form of protection against inclement weather during such an excursion, and makes for a plausible rationale for the difference in the tolerance coefficient.

There, have I smeared enough mud on this to cover my error???
I dunno about mud, but we have both smeared a lot of SOMETHING on this topic! :)

-dave


.

[EricH]

I Havent Been Really Keeping Up on Here & Dont Want To Go Through 40+ Pages But... Has anyone Mentioned, Copley Square is near the finish line of the Boston Marathon. If the lat/lon is of a statue there, maybe the 3rd number is the heading that points from the statue to the finish line?

MIT was also founded here, prior to moving to Cambridge.We've covered this. There is a Thread Search tool in the orange bar above each page of each thread. Use it if you don't want to read 40+ pages. Otherwise, you make the thread even longer for someone else to read through.

[billbo911]

I dunno about mud, but we have both smeared a lot of SOMETHING on this topic! :)

-dave
.
I see we also agree on the origin of the mud!:)

[organman42]

342.242026 is the Molecular weight of C11H17Cl2N3O3S

(3-methyl-2-methylsulfinyl-imidazol-4-yl)methyl N,N-bis(2-chloroethyl)carbamate

is this chemical used for anything? Some teammates and I can't find anything online about it.

[robogeek753]

Well, its an organic; which probably means that it can kill you, and/or hurt you really bad and would need safety glasses (safety FIRST ;-) ). Other than that, I wouldn't ever, EVER want to try drawing it? (My only guess at meaning would be that its actual structure means something, but you would have to draw it NOT FUN!)

[MiniNerd24]

Well if it has anything to do with the third game hint, then it could be a large tetra.(?)

[GBilletdeaux930]

well...from this hint im gettin 2 ideas....(dunno if they've been mentioned)

#1. Two obelisks with tetras on top, one for each alliance, in which u must place squares on your obelisk to score exponentially like in 07 and place spheres on the other teams obelisk as a sort of blocking method... spheres could possibly be a bit bigger to take up space and they would probably be difficult to lift and control. Dont have an idea for an end-game type of scoring but yea...

#2. One decent sized tetra in the center of the field with some sort of...lets go with board just cause i cant think, balanced on the tip acting as a balance. Teams must place cubes/spheres on the beam to make there side heavier, only thing is this would have to either be a huge beam...or small shapes...or we can hope that alliances will only be able to place a few amount of shapes on the beam....

so yea thats what i got....after typing them im leanin more toward the first one...but yea now im gonna go and wait til kickoff saturday morning...

[Alex Burman]

According to the wikipedia article on the Boston Marathon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_marathon#Race), Copley Square is the official finish line. This, along with the tortoise and the hare speculations lead me to believe this years competition will be a race. Perhaps there will be benefits to being the first to finish or taking your time.

[Roger]

Well, according to my eyes, it's approximately* between the old and new buildings of the Boston Public Library on Boylston Street. In the attached photo, taken on Boylston Street looking (ahem) approximately east, on the right from front to back: The Lenox Hotel, The Phillip Johnson addition (http://www.pjar.com/projects_type_educational.html) (scroll down), the original McKim, Mead, and White building (http://www.bpl.org/guides/walkmckim.htm), and Copley Square and Trinity Church beyond. The finish line is painted on the street around the last "column" of the Johnson building next to the McKim building. You can also zoom in on Google Maps here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=42.349905,+-71.076072&ie=UTF8&ll=42.349723,-71.078668&spn=0.000618,0.001356&t=k&z=20&om=1) and see "FINISH" painted. Copley Square may be the "official" end only in terms of that is where the runners are carried to the doctors, and where spouses go to pick up the remains. I recall the line used to be at the Prudential Tower when Prudential was the sponsor.

Regarding the history of Copley Square, it was created in 1883 and was originally a triangle lot because Huntington Avenue went straight thru it. The other triangle lot in front of Trinity Church was added a year later when they realized how silly it was having a three-sided square. The removal of Huntington Avenue thru the square was more recent.

Since the Hint was fairly precise ;) and did not give a tolerance, one must conclude they meant the plaza in front of the church and not anywhere else. Unless, of course, they posted it without Dave's advice, which would be silly. I'm still leaning towards a tortoise and hare theme.

By the way, Dave, perhaps some of the official Smoot websites should be updated, as both "a salute to Smoot" at the MIT website (http://web.mit.edu/spotlight/smoot-salute/) as well as the Lambda Chi Alpha website (http://lambda-chi.mit.edu/chapter_history.html#smoots) indicates 364.4 Smoots "and one ear" (MIT) or "plus 1 ear" (LCA).

*Since the two engineers above are debating the issue of precision and tolerance and the possible size of Mr Smoot's ear, a lesson the rest of us should tolerate and watch from afar.
_________________
Everything I know today I've learned from listening to myself talk about things that I knew absolutely nothing about. Gracie Allen

[aztech75]

I am not sure it this point has been braught up yet but it was an idea i had.

The Boston Public Library is close to the coordinates in the clue, could the last number be some sort of dewie decimal code for a book that would refer to a clue some how?

[Roger]

BPL I believe uses Library of Congress cataloging; I think someone mentioned it many pages ago (I don't blame you for missing it).

342 in Dewey Decimal System is "Constitutional and administrative law", not a very hopeful path to go in. Not many numbers go to six places, but I seem to remember some sections did get that far, but I don't think 342 was one of them. Melville Dewey was an odd character; besides the DDC he advocated the metric system and simplifying the English language spelling. Thus his name became Melvil Dui.

Why, yes, in my youth we spent many a summer vacation going to visit libraries; my mother was a librarian -- can't you tell? (And her name was Marion.)

[Howman]

If 342.242026 refers to the heading, then it seems to point you right at the fountain. So maybe the game has something to do with water? :ahh:

However, because of the number of sig digits, it may be a heading to something much further away or something near but quite small.

[Anne_droid]

By the way, Dave, perhaps some of the official Smoot websites should be updated, as both "a salute to Smoot" at the MIT website (http://web.mit.edu/spotlight/smoot-salute/) as well as the Lambda Chi Alpha website (http://lambda-chi.mit.edu/chapter_history.html#smoots) indicates 364.4 Smoots "and one ear" (MIT) or "plus 1 ear" (LCA).


This is my memory of it as well - the measurement was "364.4 Smoots + 1 ear." There was no +/-. I do remember going to a presentation once, where they gave a tolerance value for the measurement (in Smoots) but it had nothing to do with the ear. The ear itself I tend to interpret as just a silly way of completing the full distance of the measurement. I think the tolerance may have been added to the lore later on and not had much to do with the original fraternity stunt. (But maybe I'm not giving the guys enough credit.)

I'm not sure what the Smoot might have to do with the Game Hint but the discussion of units and tolerance is certainly relevant.

[ALIBI]

If 342.242026 refers to the heading, then it seems to point you right at the fountain. So maybe the game has something to do with water? :ahh:

However, because of the number of sig digits, it may be a heading to something much further away or something near but quite small.


A fountain full of tetra? GO FISH!

[Roger]

I'm not sure what the Smoot might have to do with the Game Hint...
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's dlavery's way of getting everyone off the subject when we get too close to the correct answer to the Hint. :)

Wikipedia says "the bridge's length was measured to be 364.4 smoots plus or minus one ear, with the 'plus or minus' intended to express uncertainty of measurement", which does lend credence to dave's version of the events. Why .4 plus an ear? Wouldn't 364 plus a leg be better? But why would two sources closer to the event omit this?

Yet reading Lambda Chi's webpage a little more may reveal more of the truth. Oliver Smoot himself says "Luckily ... we were cold sober" when a police van came upon them. But this was a fraternity pledge hack in 1958; a later quote from a younger frat brother says "later the story came out as 'he was stiff as a board' from earlier festivities at the bar!" I suspect the tolerance would be a bit more than "plus or minus one ear."

[batterybox]

Here is what I am thinking so far...

Using Google Earth, the coordinates 42.349905, -71.076072 brought me to Copley Square in Boston.
Approximately 342 smoots away from that point is the Prudential Tower.
The Prudential Tower has a little message system using the red and blue lights on top of the tower.

Steady Blue, Clear View
Flashing Blue, Clouds are Due
Steady Red, Rain Ahead
Flashing Red, Snow Instead

IR board using different signals to perform different tasks..? That's all I got.

[Capt. Quirk]

If Copley Square really is a clue, then maybe the "Square" is the real clue.

[batterybox]

If Copley Square really is the clue, then maybe the "Square" is the real clue.

Where is the fun in that....:)

[Justin Montois]

I didn't read every post so Sorry if this was already mentioned but Copley Square is very close to "Co-Play Square"

[Capt. Quirk]

Woodie's game hint

"Just be careful about the stock market, with jello, gerbils, and K'nex blocks."

mentions "Squares", the stock market could be a stack that goes up & down.

When I think of Gerbils, Desert Rats, Rodents or Mouse (Mice) come to mind and may indicate a change in OI before we thought.

Or possibly the squares are going to be loaded on goals that move around the playing field (cage) like gerbils in a cage? Mobile goals may be like the "stock market, with jello" if the playing pieces are not stable.

[Nightfall831]

dunno if anyone has said this or not, but if your idea for what the third number is gets you a number that is "close" to the third number....its probably wrong...i don't think that they would give us a number to nine signifigant figures if they wanted us to be "close"...just a thought...

[Scott Carpman]

This is post 666 in this thread.

How devlishly confusing these hints are....

[MPG1259]

the tortouse and the hare may represent the Boston Marathon because there is a structure in the square that does. The marathon only ends about a block away. I have now idea how this would relate to any kind of game

[GaryVoshol]

Combining thoughts from this thread and the Hint #3 thread ...

Coordinates (if that's what they are) point to Copley Square. Someone posted a picture of Paul Copioli on one of the tetra goals in reference to #3. What do both have in common? The first syllable is "Cope" ... perhaps the game is Coping with something.

[Capt. Quirk]

So now all we need to do is figure out what Nicolas Cage would do :yikes:

[Grovestand]

This may be a stretch, but 42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026 happen to be exact coordinates to Copley Square, which is where MIT also happened to be founded...interesting

[hipsterjr]

This may be a stretch, but 42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026 happen to be exact coordinates to Copley Square, which is where MIT also happened to be founded...interesting
This topic has been well established.

[Mike Schreiber]

Anyone else notice trinity church, 3 clues, 3 shapes (triangles circles and squares)?

Not that that means anything and we're all probably way off...

[Pavan Dave]

What if those numbers are the encryption key??????? Whaaaa??

[jkeith227]

I believe the exact coordinates point to the Hancock building in Copley square, and the third coordinate might have something to do with the height.

[Jaime65]

Whilst looking up stuff about copley Square I ran across this picture...... Was he serious this whole time???

http://www.nicnic.com/images/bboston02.jpg


its the banana again

[Akash Rastogi]

What if those numbers are the encryption key??????? Whaaaa??

lol, anyone try? :rolleyes:
:p

[alex1699]

If Copley Square really is a clue, then maybe the "Square" is the real clue.

i just thought of posting that.

[MiniNerd24]

<quote from Pavan> What if those numbers are the encryption key??????? Whaaaa?? <quote/>


lol, anyone try? :rolleyes:
:p

Ok no I didn't try but (not that it was a bad guess) do you really think they would give us the code, even if it was hidden in a clue?:confused:

[Akash Rastogi]

<quote from Pavan> What if those numbers are the encryption key??????? Whaaaa?? <quote/>




Ok no I didn't try but (not that it was a bad guess) do you really think they would give us the code, even if it was hidden in a clue?:confused:

dude, i was kidding of course (I'll use the special [SARCASM] box next time. That, and the fact that we'll find out tomorrow anyway..so, no point in doing that.

P.S I'm pretty sure Pavan was kidding too. Just easing the tension about tomorrow.

[MiniNerd24]

*oop* Riiiiiiiiight. Heh. I never was good at internet sarcasm. Hope to see everyone who reads/ posts on this thread 2morrow.:p :cool: :) :D :ahh:

[Pavan Dave]

It was something Sam and I discussed. FIRST has probably already given us all we need to figure out the game, the only thing is we will overthink and not know until tomorrow even if we are 100% correct. So I thought I'd post a smart-alek remark on CD and see what people would say... :D

[caffel]

In keeping with the navigation theme, the 324 is a compass bearing from copley square. (or maybe toward it)

[cgredalertcc]

At this point everything I have seen so far points without a doubt to national treasure. What exactly that means for the game I have no idea. Here are the things that bring to this conclusion Copley square is the site of trinity church under which the treasure of the first nation treasure movie was hidden and the release date is the same as the date the second national treasure came out. Theres one thing I know for sure and that is that we will all go, "DOH" tommorow morning and things will become increasingly more hectic thereafter.

[Spylake]

The only concrete clue is the IR board.

For the following reasons I don't think they will be used to receive commands from the teams.


The existing command system is more than adequate and the adding of 4 somewhat less reliable command channels does not seem to be of much utility.
If each team brings a potpourri of remote controls to the games testing for inadvertent interference between teams would be a bit of a nightmare.
The 30-40 degree field of view


However if the IR emitters are part of the Playing Field then a host of ideas come to mind.

Game piece identification

In some past games colors were used to distinguish team pieces i.e. red and blue pool tubes. Maybe this time the game pieces will all look alike and you will have to identify your team's pieces by looking for a specific IR signature they emit.

Game targets/goals

Targets or goals may be marked with IR emitters. Their location may be changed between matches or even dynamically during the match.

Crude GPS system

Place an emitter in each corner of the game field and by scanning or each emitter (The ir board detects 4 IR signatures) the angles could be used to triangulate the position and bearing of your robot. Scanning would need a rotating mirror and optical slit.

Hint #2 with a longitude, latitude and azimuth makes me like this idea most.

---------

Speculation is free, just remember you get what you pay for.

Maybe I should get an hour of sleep before kickoff..

Good luck everyone.

[Nin_estarSaerah]

copley square-boston marathon-first overdrive

[Andrew Bates]

So what were the numbers really. Were they really GPS coordinates?

[Nin_estarSaerah]

im assuming so, if the boston marathon has to do with our game i can't figure out what else in the game they are.

[Mark McLeod]

So what were the numbers really. Were they really GPS coordinates?

Woodie told us the coordinates simply referred to the Tortoise and the Hare in Copley Square.

[whlspacedude]

what about the 3rd clue?

[Mike Schreiber]

the 3rd clue is an anogram (spelling?) for the manual password, rearrange the letters

[Laaba 80]

I rebember someone in this post saying that the name of this years game would be overdrive. I dont remember who this was, or how they got to that conclusion. I also dont feel like searchink through over 600 posts right now, but to whoever it was, Great Call.

[ChuckDickerson]

Woodie told us the coordinates simply referred to the Tortoise and the Hare in Copley Square.

So what about 342.242026?

[gurellia53]

I know this is a bit late and I didn't bother reading all 47 pages of this discussion, but did anyone make the connection with XKCD?

http://xkcd.com/240/ (http://xkcd.com/240/)

"It turns out wanting something doesn't make it real"

Wanting a water game doesn't make it real.


Sorry I posted this AFTER the game was announced :rolleyes:

[JoeXIII'007]

I know this is a bit late and I didn't bother reading all 47 pages of this discussion, but did anyone make the connection with XKCD?

http://xkcd.com/240/ (http://xkcd.com/240/)

"It turns out wanting something doesn't make it real"

Wanting a water game doesn't make it real.

Sorry I posted this AFTER the game was announced :rolleyes:

Branching off of that... Lavery's first iteration of his clue in signature mentioned something about the answer being right in our hands but not seeing it since it doesnt conform to expectations.

That highly depended on what type of mouse you used, since only the old mice have a "Trackball" and a good number of people now use optical.

grr..

[Akash Rastogi]

I rebember someone in this post saying that the name of this years game would be overdrive. I dont remember who this was, or how they got to that conclusion. I also dont feel like searchink through over 600 posts right now, but to whoever it was, Great Call.

That, and a few of us came to the conclusion of a race. Nice job guys! :D

[Mark McLeod]

So what about 342.242026?
Compass bearing that looks at the statues from the coordinate location several feet away.

[SSMike]

what about the 3rd clue?

In addition to it being an anagram of the decryption code, it also contains the word hurdling which is one of the ways score this year.

[ahecht]

So what about 342.242026?

In this years game, the robots cross the finish line and turn left. Do to the orientation of streets around Copley Square, if marathon runners crossed the finish line and turned 90 degrees left, they would be heading in a compass bearing of 342.242026 degrees.

EDIT: See Dave Lavery's post here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=673428&postcount=5). If you went to those coordinates and looked in that direction, you would be staring at the Tortoise and the Hare statues.

[Roger]

date Dec 21, 2007 3:48 PM
subject **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2

Greetings Teams:

42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

Happy Holidays and GO TEAMS!
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I wanted to thank Dave for hint #2. I'm drawing a building interior over on Newbury St a couple blocks over and up from Copley Square (at 42.349905 and -71.076072) and I needed a north arrow on the plan. As the whole Back Bay is tilted from north I just twirled my north arrow 342.242026 (in AutoCAD it's easy!) and there ya go! I guess I'm going to keep the hint on a sticky on my office wall for a while.

[Beth Sweet]

I'm going to close this so people don't get confused with years. No 2009 game hint yet!