**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2

[Gamer930]

from FRC Teams <frcteams@usfirst.org>
reply-to frcteams@usfirst.org,
to undisclosed-recipients,
date Dec 21, 2007 3:48 PM
subject **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2

Greetings Teams:

42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

Happy Holidays and GO TEAMS!

--
FIRST Robotics Competition

(p) 1-800-871-8326 x 0
(f) 603-666-3907
frcteams@usfirst.org
www.usfirst.org

[Travis Covington]

Latitude Longitude
42.349905 -71.076072

Are GPS coords for Boston...

[T3_1565]

what the deuce?! is all I have to say to that.........

combined it is 313.515859

[blaxbb]

Why do they do this to us???

[Lavapicker]

Boston is the home of the red sox....infrared....We're going to have to identify, with IR tool in first hint, and pick up red socks and put them in a bin

[T3_1565]

Latitude Longitude
42.349905 -71.076072

Are GPS coords for Boston...


Copley Square to be exact, and if you type that into Google map, it seems to point directly at something in copley square but it doesn't zoom in enough!!!

[Ryan Dognaux]

Copley Square to be exact, and if you type that into Google map, it seems to point directly at something in copley square but it doesn't zoom in enough!!!

I'm pretty sure the arrow is just pointing to the center of Copley Square.

Any idea for what the third coordinate is for?

[Travis Covington]

Any idea for what the third coordinate is for?

Height?

[T3_1565]

Whilst looking up stuff about copley Square I ran across this picture...... Was he serious this whole time???

http://www.nicnic.com/images/bboston02.jpg

[Mentor 2660]

I'm thinking that it might be the position of something on the game field. If each of the numbers given are in inches the maximum value is something like 28.5 feet.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Height?

Could be, anyone know of a structure around Copley Square that's 342.242026 feet tall? Though I don't know, if they're coordinates then the first two would be in degrees and how would that work for the third one? I've never seen longitude / latitude and then a height given in the same format. But then again, this is a game hint, so who knows.

[fimmel]

google earth...bout same altitide with lat and lon http://www.homeofthegeek.net/2/42.349905%20-71.076072.jpg

[Leav]

the third coordinate might be time.
i'll work it out and give you the date in a sec.

if it's 342.242026 days from 01.01.2007 than the date is

December 9th, 2007 at 05:48am

that doesnt make much sense. (maybe that's when they shipped the IR??)

-Leav

[Kristian Calhoun]

Copley Square to be exact, and if you type that into Google map, it seems to point directly at something in copley square but it doesn't zoom in enough!!!
Copley Square = square game piece? *shrug*

EDIT: This one is from Libby - Copley Square is also on the corner of Harvard St. and BEACON St.

Hmmm....

[fimmel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copley_Square theres a statue at the exact coordinates....

[T3_1565]

Copley Square = square game piece? *shrug*


could be! That was the first thing I thought, but then again I don't think they would make it that easy!

[ChuckDickerson]

There is a pair of sculptures in Copley Square called The Tortoise and the Hare. Possibly a reference to something we have to do fast and something we have to do slow maybe???

It could also have something to do with Trinity Church.

[T3_1565]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copley_Square theres a statue at the exact coordinates....


but if you change the coordinates slightly (like make -71.076072 -71.076200) it doesn't move off the statue, makes me believe as someone said, its just the middle of the square

[jee7s]

How about Latitude, Longitude, Bearing?

Would some of our friends in Boston tell us what you see when standing in Copley Square looking at a bearing of 342 degrees magnetic?

[T3_1565]

is there a way to do that on the computer???

[chris31]

is there a way to do that on the computer???

You can calculate what you would be looking at but with Google Maps or any satellite it wont help because you get a birds eye view and not teh view you would get standing there.

[Leav]

342.242026 hours are 14.2600844 days...

that's about the time until the kickoff.

-Leav

[Rafi Ahmed]

Its named after John Singleton Copley. He was an American portraitist.

[CraigHickman]

I'm poking around the area in Google Street Views... Nothing yet, will report in on any significant findings.

Edit: Interesting. In this square, triangles and squares are everywhere. I'm guessing these two will be our game shapes?

[T3_1565]

You can calculate what you would be looking at but with Google Maps or any satellite it wont help because you get a birds eye view and not teh view you would get standing there.

actually on google map it has a street view and I'm in right now but I have now way of know which way I'm facing

[colin340]

hmm 2 hints that new

[lukevanoort]

It looks like you'd end up looking at either a tree or bench... not like that is a rare sight.

[Andy Grady]

Gotta love it...

FIRST's GDC...providing entertainment to loads of bored Bostonian FIRST'ers on a friday night.

[Scott L.]

http://shinraikon.com/first/2008/hint%202/
maps of hint area
found using
http://www.robogeo.com/latlonfinder/map.asp

[T3_1565]

Gotta love it...

FIRST's GDC...providing entertainment to loads of bored Bostonian FIRST'ers on a friday night.

lmao, could you imagine???? 50 or so kids all get up and run to copley square with compasses and pieces of paper, and cameras chanting "WHAT CAN WE SEE!?!?!"

[sayso_411]

WOW!!! Gotta love it
Friday Night Excitement
;) :ahh:

[KathieK]

lmao, could you imagine???? 50 or so kids all get up and run to copley square with compasses and pieces of paper, and cameras chanting "WHAT CAN WE SEE!?!?!"
In the dark no less!

[chris31]

All of the FIRSTer who go to MIT just walking out of their dorms and walking down the street to see.

[Nuttyman54]

I suppose I'll jump in here too

Credit to Ruth from 1735, Copely Sq is the finish line for the Boston Marathon...races/E stops like 2001 maybe?

[Mike AA]

In the dark no less!

Kinda wish I lived closer, I have enough spotlights we could light it up like a mid summers day...

Anyone one their way to the site?

-Mike

[JaneYoung]

In the dark no less!

Is it dark there already?

Look both ways. Or every which way. Oh, you know what I mean.

[Rafi Ahmed]

Copley painted about 350 paintings. Close to 342.242026

[CraigHickman]

Yeah, seems that the third number, 342.242026, is how many hours till kickoff... But what's with Copley Square? I'm curious, and hoping some of our boston friends can help us out...

[Leav]

here is the best from google street view....

-Leav

[CraigHickman]

here is the best from google street view....

-Leav

Yeah, I was looking there too... It seems the only thing I can find from this is the prevalence of both squares and triangles in Copley Square... Maybe those are related to the game objects?

[Leav]

on the north side of the square, just to the west of north (maybe 342.242026 degrees?) there is a cafe called... are you ready?


"Globe Cafe" :yikes: :ahh:

lol...

-Leav

[CraigHickman]

on the north side of the square, just to the west of north (maybe 342.242026 degrees?) there is a cafe called... are you ready?


"Globe Cafe" :yikes: :ahh:

lol...

-Leav

Ooh. Very good find! Now there's all three shapes represented here... What if the game is going to have all three?!

[Nuttyman54]

342.24 hours in days gives 14 days 6 hours 14 mins and 31 seconds....

Kickoff is still 14 days, 16 hours and 12 minutes away

Maybe something happens at that time...which is 10 hours from now (approximately)

is anyone else reminded of XKCD comic number 240 (http://www.xkcd.com/240)?

[Dave Scheck]

I'm poking around the area in Google Street Views... Nothing yet, will report in on any significant findings.Hmm...I found something interesting doing just that :)

So the first two coordinates lead us to Copely Square. If we assume that the third is height, we're either looking for something about 28.5 feet tall.

First enter the coodinates into Google maps to get centered on Copely Square. Now, using Street View, place the little yellow man on Boyslan Street about halfway between Dartmouth and Clarendon (North of the square). The approximate address in my window is 568 Boyslan and I'm looking between a mail truck and a white utility truck towards what appears to be the entrance to the square. Do you see what I see? Two pillars that sort of look like the Washington monument (maybe about 28.5 feet tall).

Could be something, could be nothing. I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

EDIT: The location that I found is ironically the same spot that Leav referenced. Turn around Leave :)

[nreynolds]

Hey guys. Just gunna post a few things about the 342, just because I don't think they'd give it to us if it was just the number of hours till kickoff.

342.242026:

342 chests of tea were dumped into Boston Harbor during the boston tea party.

342.242026 centimeters is 11.2 feet. Copley park was renovated in 1966: "the 1966 plan lowered the grade of the square almost 12 feet below sidewalk level and was mostly paved"

Anyone know of anything else?

Also, since the first clue was about IR remotes, I'm fairly confident that we have to get our robots to watch tv and drink beer.

[kibbs425]

In Copley square you if you look from that point at 342 (deg on a compass)... North-North west or are in the North/Northwest section of the square there is a fountain... also the TRINITY church is located in the North/Northwest section of the square...

Conveniently I'll be down that way tonight. YAY NU and being on coop! Hopefully I'll be able to get some names of any monuments...

[dtengineering]

Based on previous game hints the hint may refer to the name of the game more than any specific aspect of the game.

Previous hints have also been sufficiently cryptic that the GPS co-ordinates may be a red herring. I'm not saying that they aren't relevant, just that the games (and hints) are designed by some pretty bright people who can hide other meanings beneath a very obvious surface clue.

What else could the numbers be if they aren't a GPS co-ordinate?

Jason


<edit>
Hmmm... statues in the square... wasn't that the key in Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons"? </edit>

[CraigHickman]

Ooh. Very good find! Now there's all three shapes represented here... What if the game is going to have all three?!

Ok, so I did a little graphing. Straight from the coordinates, at 342 degrees, you're looking through the two obelisks, straight at the Globe Cafe.

See attached.

[Greg Needel]

on google earth right at the coordinates is the Hancock tower, which is 344 meters tall. If you look at the roof of the building I believe it is a layout of the playing field....

[Leav]

Based on previous game hints the hint may refer to the name of the game more than any specific aspect of the game.

Previous hints have also been sufficiently cryptic that the GPS co-ordinates may be a red herring. I'm not saying that they aren't relevant, just that the games (and hints) are designed by some pretty bright people who can hide other meanings beneath a very obvious surface clue.

What else could the numbers be if they aren't a GPS co-ordinate?

Jason


<edit>
Hmmm... statues in the square... wasn't that the key in Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons"? </edit>

you are right ofcourse, but by this stage my mind has gone all one track on me.... :)

[flightofone]

You are thinking WAY to small - it is the altitude of the space station in km.

[DRH2o]

Did a search for Copley Square and Rainbow ( The cable in the first hint )

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/novlettewhite/CW8R

Too political for FIRST, but interesting. :ahh:

[Leav]

Ok, so I did a little graphing. Straight from the coordinates, at 342 degrees, you're looking through the two obelisks, straight at the Globe Cafe.

See attached.

Robots playing football!

[Nuttyman54]

on google earth right at the coordinates is the Hancock tower, which is 344 meters tall. If you look at the roof of the building I believe it is a layout of the playing field....

Where'd you find the height? Wikipedia says 240.7 meters tall (790 ft)

[Adam Y.]

In Copley square you if you look from that point at 342 (deg on a compass)... North-North west or are in the North/Northwest section of the square there is a fountain... also the TRINITY church is located in the North/Northwest section of the square...

Conveniently I'll be down that way tonight. YAY NU and being on coop! Hopefully I'll be able to get some names of any monuments...
There really isn't anything there. All I can think of that is at Copley Square is:

Trinity Church
Finish Line
Boston Public Library
Fountain
Statues
John Hancock Tower
Farmers Market
Another church
Duck Boats

[imp]

OK- playing around here- this (http://www.aviewoncities.com/boston/copleysquare.htm) website gives a height for the JH tower as 791 feet/60 stories high. This works out to an average of 13.17feet per story. The same article mentions the old JH building, now called the Berkeley Building, at 26 stories. Mathematically, 13.166 feet * 26 stories = 342.316, which is really close to the number they gave us. Maybe something to do with Berkeley?

That's what a lack of sleep and too much sugar gets you.

[T3_1565]

Where'd you find the height? Wikipedia says 240.7 meters tall (790 ft)

This is the hieght of the old tower not the new one!

[Rupnick]

The Green and Orange from the subway lines might mean 4 alliances Red, Blue, Green, and Orange.

[Adam Y.]

The Green and Orange might mean 4 alliances Red, Blue, Green, and Orange.
Where are we getting orange from?

[Nuttyman54]

The Green and Orange might mean 4 alliances Red, Blue, Green, and Orange.

As nice as that would be, it's a bad idea. Colorblind people would have a problem...

[jee7s]

Well, accounting for Magnetic Declination of 16 degrees West, that pushes the bearing to 326. That points toward the T-stop. Perhaps t-shaped peices?

Also, couldn't the GDC be sending this to us 342... hours before the kickoff as a timing mechanism.

[Bryan Herbst]

on google earth right at the coordinates is the Han tower, which is 344 meters tall. If you look at the roof of the building I believe it is a layout of the playing field....

This theory is one I'm starting to like more and more, judging by various people's height measurements, and the building's location. May not indicate what the field will be, but looks like an important part of the clue.



Additionally, many have pointed to things such as the Trinity Church, Globe Cafe, Copley square, etc. Anyone else notice that the FIRST logo is a Triangle, Circle, and Square? Could be a coincidence, but worth looking at.

[Richard Wallace]

There really isn't anything there. All I can think of that is at Copley Square is:

Trinity Church
Finish Line
Boston Public Library
Fountain
Statues
John Hancock Tower
Farmers Market
Another church
Duck Boats
In the corner of the park nearest the intersection of Boylston and Dartmouth, across from the T station, there is a Bostix Kiosk. The Wikipedia article on Copely Square says this kiosk was built in 1992 -- the year FIRST competitions started. The kiosk has an interesting shape.

[Libby K]

on google earth right at the coordinates is the Hancock tower, which is 344 meters tall. If you look at the roof of the building I believe it is a layout of the playing field....

There seems to be what looks like a track on top of the building.
Hm? I have no idea what this means.

Maybe the GDC's just taking us around in circles...

[ChuckDickerson]

Trinity Church = Trinity = (from the Websters dictionary on my desk) "a set of three persons or things that form a unit."

Hmm, 3 team alliances again maybe?, 3 things that form a unit = Circle, Square, Triange. Maybe each robot on an alliance has to score a particular shape somehow determined by the IR receiver?

[imp]

Thinking clearly now- could it be a wavelength or frequency?

[Nuttyman54]

Thinking clearly now- could it be a wavelength or frequency?
342 Hz is the low end of the vocal frequency range

[Laaba 80]

Trinity Church = Trinity = (from the Websters dictionary on my desk) "a set of three persons or things that form a unit."

Hmm, 3 team alliances again maybe?, 3 things that form a unit = Circle, Square, Triange. Maybe each robot on an alliance has to score a particular shape somehow determined by the IR receiver?

I like this idea. It caould also mean that there are three alliances.

[StephLee]

342 Hz is the low end of the vocal frequency range

Voice commands? Something "low"? Ack, I'm just trying to catch up with this thread...

[lukevanoort]

As nice as that would be, it's a bad idea. Colorblind people would have a problem...
WARNING: Completely off-topic

This reminds me of build season last year. We were using CAT5 UTP for running our camera wires (and some of the other sensors too, I think) from our arm, through our turret, and back to the RC. Well, my Dad was labeling some of the wires prior to soldering and he happens to be red-green colorblind. For those that aren't familiar with it, CAT5 UTP has 8 wires in it, striped and solid color versions of the following: orange, green, blue, and brown. While there aren't any red-green pairings, orange and green apparently look the same to a colorblind individual.

[RoboMom]

There really isn't anything there. All I can think of that is at Copley Square is:

Trinity Church
Finish Line
Boston Public Library
Fountain
Statues
John Hancock Tower
Farmers Market
Another church
Duck Boats


Duck boats???? I used to live a block away. Copley Square sure has changed if they now have duck boats in the fountains!
There used to be a great deli that was open until the wee hours. It was called...Hey, wait a second ....

[dtengineering]

Hmmm... wavelengths... good idea...

Here are the three numbers converted to their 64-bit floating point representation in binary:

01000000010010101001011001100100110101111111000011 101101001111011
11000000010110001110001001101111001011101000110000 000100100001011
01000000011110101011000111101111101010110101001111 010110010000010

and hex:

40452CC9AFE1DA7B
C051C4DE5D18090B
407563DF56A7AC82

using this calculator (http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html).


I was hoping for a pattern or a nice string of hex text. Maybe in a different base or arrangement of bits, or in 32 bit float....

But I'm thinking "Trinity" might be part of the game name. It is the kind of thing that might work.

Jason

[Adam Y.]

Duck boats???? I used to live a block away. Copley Square sure has changed if they now have duck boats in the fountains!
There used to be a great deli that was open until the wee hours. It was called...Hey, wait a second ....
Sorry. I meant DUKW not DUCK.

[sirbobbinhood]

It sounds like a star map coordinates and they point to Ursa Major and Leo minor and it's also close to camelopardalis. Sounds kinda weird to me but you never know.

[Rafi Ahmed]

Ok well after some searching the person who made the statue was a guy named Lewis Cohen. There is another person by that name who was the mayor of the city of Adelaide, which is in the Australian state of South Australia. One of the founding fathers of Adelaide is Colonel William Light. So maybe the light is down under.:confused: :p

[Adam Y.]

Does anyone know where those GPS cordinates point to? Google seems to round the cordinates up.

[StephLee]

Ok well after some searching the person who made the statue was a guy named Lewis Cohen. There is another person by that name who was the mayor of the city of Adelaide, which is in the Australian state of South Australia. One of the founding fathers of Adelaide is Colonel William Light. So maybe the light is down under.:confused: :p

That's just crazy enough to be the right connection...

[charmed862]

Ok, so I did a little graphing. Straight from the coordinates, at 342 degrees, you're looking through the two obelisks, straight at the Globe Cafe.

See attached.
Again robots playing football?
Maybe, but i remember reading in a thread not too long ago, about someone seeing a truck filled with footballs outside FIRST. I don't know if this was 100% true but maybe.... We would have to shoot footballs through the obelisks, into a globe shaped bin and if you fill the entire bin you get bonus points???? I'm not sure really where I was going with this, but it seemed logical at the time of thought.

[pandamonium]

the third number could refer to the dewey decimal system in the boston library right accross the street. anyone in boston want to got to the library and check? lol it is still open.

[Milaki]

Warning this first idea is completely far fetched and most likely wrong
1) maybe it could be them trying to tell us that something in the game happens to deal with National Treasure because the second one came out today and in the first one they visit Trinity Church which the coordinates take you to the general area it's at

Now an idea that might work. Agreeing with a previous post that we could have to use three different game pieces, a square, circle, and triangle. Because it is Copley Square and someone said that when you look down the street using Google there are a lot of Triangles and Circles so maybe?

[Scott L.]

342nm is in the near ultraviolet range, just out of the violet range which starts at 400nm
This is UVA or black light range

[fimmel]

the statue is of a painter

in this picture there is a sphere
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The_Return_of_Neptune%2C_ca._1754.jpg :P

[artdutra04]

42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026If we take this as latitude, longitude, compass bearing, it points from Copley Square directly towards Manchester, NH. :yikes:

is anyone else reminded of XKCD comic number 240 (http://www.xkcd.com/240)?Hahaha!

Just like XKCD, by creating a set of coordinates as a game hint, they have invariably altered the future and will thus cause a lot of FIRSTers to visit said location. And if they continue to follow said bearing of 342.242026 degrees until they arrive in Manchester, NH, and eventually FIRST, I bet there's going to be a sign on the door that says something like "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Christmas_Story#Parodies_and_homages).

[Bomberofdoom]

Is there an event in that coordinat's area next week, say on Thursday? Just trying to guess something.

[Joe G.]

Hmm multiple game hints...

What else has an FRC game never had more than 1 of before? Autonomous? Endgame task?

[StephLee]

the third number could refer to the dewey decimal system in the boston library right accross the street. anyone in boston want to got to the library and check? lol it is still open.

According to wiki, 342 in the Dewey Decimal System is constitutional and administrative law...hmm...

The connection to National Treasure seems more plausible if you take the last number as a Dewey Decimal number:

Warning this first idea is completely far fetched and most likely wrong
1) maybe it could be them trying to tell us that something in the game happens to deal with National Treasure because the second one came out today and in the first one they visit Trinity Church which the coordinates take you to the general area it's at

[Nuttyman54]

According to wiki, 342 in the Dewey Decimal System is constitutional and administrative law...hmm...

The connection to National Treasure seems more plausible if you take the last number as a Dewey Decimal number:

but does Dewey Decimal have that many significant digits? That alone is what makes me thing it's either a bearing measurement (likely) or a time measurement (less likely)

[Dmentor]

If we take this as latitude, longitude, compass bearing, it points from Copley Square directly towards Manchester, NH. :yikes:

I was thinking this too but after playing around I came to conclusion that this isn't quite right. FIRST headquarters is at 200 Bedford St., Manchester, NH 03101 which according to http://www.capelinks.com/cape-cod/maps/geocode/ is at 42.989618, -71.46754 and then using great circle navigation accounting for WGS84 modeling yields a bearing from true North of 335.82928497115023. Accounting for magnetic declination doesn't help. Just too much precision to account for other locations in Manchester, NH.

[Adam Y.]

the third number could refer to the dewey decimal system in the boston library right accross the street. anyone in boston want to got to the library and check? lol it is still open.
Too bad the Boston Public Library doesn't use the dewey decimal system. It uses the Library of Congress system which means that number can't be a reference to a book.

[StephLee]

but does Dewey Decimal have that many significant digits? That alone is what makes me thing it's either a bearing measurement (likely) or a time measurement (less likely)

I agree that it's probably not really a reference to National Treasure and the Dewey Decimal system, but I'm thinking through that line of thought for a while longer yet. It has too many small points that line up for me to dismiss it as a coincidence yet, leading me to believe it's either a correct interpretation or a very clever red herring.

Of course, I could easily be wrong. I swear, I only act like a conspiracy theorist during hint season...

[emnasson303]

John Singleton Copley -> Boston Tea Party -> Throwing Tea into ... WATER!!

Hahahahaha. juuuuuust kidding. Gotta love stretching the hints =P

[Nuttyman54]

Google only returns two results for 342.242026, Both of them CD

EDIT: Mike is posting his idea himself, no need for it to be duplicated here

[DAN1504]

maybe they aren't GPS coordinates. just a thought

[Team2339]

2nd 2 numbers could be magnetic north in GPS.

[madmac625]

The library call number 342 refers to 'The U.S. Constitution And The Supreme Court', which is a large book series. 242026 might refer to a page number and section, or a book and a page number in the set...

[Barry Bonzack]

Perhaps the nature of the clues are clues.

The first clue was something you can hold/touch/assemble/teach/play with

The second clue is somewhere you go/look and possibly involves time

Perhaps there is a special scoring element you give your robot when time for autonomous mode or endgame, and it is to go somewhere to receive coordinates/instructions from IR on how to use/score it.

[Athleticgirl389]

As nice as that would be, it's a bad idea. Colorblind people would have a problem...

Haha yes that would be quite problematic for those who have difficulties in telling clolrs apart... especially those colors and havin to do it in such rapidness haha. They wouldn't be THAT mean to us now :p

[StephLee]

How’s this for a stretch:
The game (or game name) involves something along the lines of “Truckin’” or “Grateful Dead.”


How I got there:

If the first two numbers are latitude/longitude and point to Copley Square and the Trinity Church, it could be a reference to the movie “National Treasure,” in which the treasure was beneath Trinity Church.

Now, it was mentioned that the third number could be a Dewey Decimal system number and that the Boston Public Library is near Copley Square. 342 in the Dewey Decimal system is constitutional and administrative law, strengthening the connection to “National Treasure.” However, it was also stated that the Boston Public Library uses the Library of Congress system (I can’t find that stated on wiki, but I’ll take your word for it).

Searching “national treasure” on Wikipedia yielded a page about national treasures instead of the movie. Listed was a song called “Truckin’” by the Grateful Dead, which is considered by the Library of Congress to be a national treasure.

The chorus of “Truckin’” runs like this:

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

(Yes, I know this is entirely crazy. I just had fun linking it all together, and it’s a really odd set of connections.)

Link to lyrics for “Truckin’” (http://arts.ucsc.edu/gdead/agdl/truckin.html)
Link to the wiki page on national treasures in general. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_treasure)
Link to the wiki page on “National Treasure” the movie. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Treasure_%28film%29)

[Libby K]

How’s this for a stretch:
The game (or game name) involves something along the lines of “Truckin’” or “Grateful Dead.”


Steph-- Dave's facebok status is:

Dave Lavery
is Truckin' . . . (where is Jerry Garcia when you need him?)

[StephLee]

Steph-- Dave's facebok status is:

Dave Lavery
is Truckin' . . . (where is Jerry Garcia when you need him?)

It says he changed it AFTER I posted - is he just messing with us??

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Again robots playing football?
Maybe, but i remember reading in a thread not too long ago, about someone seeing a truck filled with footballs outside FIRST. I don't know if this was 100% true but maybe.... We would have to shoot footballs through the obelisks, into a globe shaped bin and if you fill the entire bin you get bonus points???? I'm not sure really where I was going with this, but it seemed logical at the time of thought.
The Patriots are sweeping the NFL...

[Guy Davidson]

Is it possible Dave read the post and then changed his status? Becuase otherwise, this would be the craziest connection I have ever seen to have some form of real 'evidence'. That would be quite amazing.

[ydnar90]

F
Infra
Red
Sensor
T

anyone got any ideas as to what goes in the F or the T?

[StephLee]

Is it possible Dave read the post and then changed his status? Becuase otherwise, this would be the craziest connection I have ever seen to have some form of real 'evidence'. That would be quite amazing.

He changed his status about 5 minutes after I posted. It's more likely than not that he read the post first, then changed it.

[sishu7]

I am SO impressed by all these crazy connections! Creative thinking for sure.

I like the idea about two hints being new... and therefore there being two of something else (that there's usually only 1 of) in the game.

I also like the square, circle, triangle connection and the "T" idea.

I think we have not yet figured out the real meaning of the last set of numbers, though I like the idea that in that many hours, a third hint will come (coming to us the night before kickoff - in my time zone, anyway).

[Stillen]

Hmm, perhaps it means nothing at all. Every year I've attempted the "google" approach to solving the equation I've been dissapointed when the clue had nothing to do with the game. Here's an example of a game hint...

Quijibo

Must mean there is going to be a "north" game with "hair" and possibly surrounded by donuts.......

My mind is mush, my inlaws just got here for a 1 week stay, to fill my tank in my truck just cost me $90 bucks, I need a vacation..........PLEASE BRING ON THE build season..

[Josh Goodman]

Reading all these posts, I came up with an idea that combines a lot of them.

If there is a statue at that point in the square, then (just like in National Treasure) it will act like a "sun dial" figure. If someone checks where the shadow is pointing at 3:42, it may tell us something else. Anyone up for this far fetched task? :p

[JaneYoung]

If you do a search for Truckin', you'll find a thread about the list of songs for the 2005 IRI and suggestions that Dave be one of the DJs. Dave listed Truckin' as one of the songs to play. Awesome! (Why he doesn't like Cyndi Lauper is beyond me...)

I swear I've seen the Jerry Garcia/Truckin' reference recently, I just can't place it.

V - to Eric's post containing the quote below - this is going to be so obvious this year...I just know it.

[EricH]

New item in Dave's CD signature:

The answers to one of the most oft-debated questions of the year is sitting right there in their hands, but they refuse to see it because it does not conform to their expectations. Is he referring to this or the IR beacon and ribbon cable?

Another Dave item, this one spotlighted by him:
If you look at where you have come from you can often tell where you are going. Is that meaning a "throwback game", where the basic idea was used before, such as 2007/1997? Or just the IR and 2004 game?

[Nuttyman54]

I like the idea about two hints being new... and therefore there being two of something else (that there's usually only 1 of) in the game.

I also like the square, circle, triangle connection and the "T" idea.



What if we combine these two ideas...FIRST hasn't had a game with more than one type of game piece....it's always been just triangles, just circles or just squares....

It's been mentioned already, but this could be an additional clue that points to the possibility of multiple game objects.

New item in Dave's CD signature:

Is he referring to this or the IR beacon and ribbon cable?
[/size]

I think he updated his sig a few days ago, IIRC, so I'm pretty sure it refers to the IR sensor and cable

[Conor Ryan]

It seems like it is pretty well established that the first two numbers indicate a location, but with GDC, you can never be too sure.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to start off with 342.24026 as a temperature (in Kelvin of course), so
342.24026 kelvin = 69.09026 degrees Celsius

I don't know, what you can do with that but I thought it was interesting, maybe there was a day that had that temperature that has signifigance? Or maybe someone on the GDC wants everyone to know more about global warming. This hint is starting to remind me the one that corresponded to Triple Play, quirky stuff.

The relation of Trinity Church to National Treasure, I think there maybe something to come out of that, like the fact there will yet again be three teams on an alliance. A few random facts about the history of the church, Trinity Church is the only church in the United States and the only building in Boston that has been honored as one of the "Ten Most Significant Buildings in the United States" by the American Institute of Architects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Institute_of_Architects) (AIA). In 1885, architects voted Trinity Church as the most important building in the U.S.; Trinity Church is the only building from the original 1885 list still included in the AIA's current top ten list. The building was designated a National Historic Landmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Historic_Landmark) on December 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_30), 1970 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970).
November 1872: The Great Fire of Boston destroys the second Trinity Church building. The congregation is invited to worship in Huntington Hall of the Institute of Technology. Maybe one of those two facts can lead to something, if not it's odd history.

Oh and as an Art History Geek, the Church is in a Romanesque Style, which means the arches are rounded, maybe that has something to do with the field.
***************************************
THE WATER GAME CONNECTION!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!
So Trinity Church and Copley Square are located in the Back Bay Section of Boston and for those of you who do not know what that means....

Back Bay is a section of Boston that used to be the Back Bay of the City....before they filled it in with Dirt, Clay, Mud, Rocks, and whatever else they could find.

So that means...the game starts in water, and they fill it in with a bunch of stuff. Then as the temperatures begin to rise (see the first thing I stated, about global warming) the environment on the field changes and all of a sudden it goes back to a water game, so teams are challenged to stop the water from coming back and flooding the game area again, kind of like preventing global warming.

Ok I'm done, yeah I looked up the coordinates of the numbers in different orders, looks like I stumbled upon a Red Herring several times. Have fun figuring this one out!

[Taylor]

I think the numbers represent the stock of VEX. Right at the tail end of the -71.076072 is where Radio Shack jumped ship and IFI took hold.

[EHaskins]

It seems like it is pretty well established that the first two numbers indicate a location, but with GDC, you can never be too sure.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to start off with 342.24026 as a temperature (in Kelvin of course), so
342.24026 kelvin = 69.09026 degrees Celsius

I don't know, what you can do with that but I thought it was interesting, maybe there was a day that had that temperature that has signifigance? Or maybe someone on the GDC wants everyone to know more about global warming. This hint is starting to remind me the one that corresponded to Triple Play, quirky stuff.
(Emphsis added)

At the end of the Wisconsin FLL State competition we were told the game hit for the 2008 fll game which had somthing to do with global warming. Sorry I can't quote it.

[Joe G.]

Dave's signature might refer to palmastry, or something like that. Also, dictionary.com has an alternative definition of "expectations" listed as "the mean of a random variable." I think this might mean that we have varying match times, which would not be announced until something like halfway through the match. This follows the idea of more than one of something FRC has only had one of in the past.

[Andy Grady]

There seems to be what looks like a track on top of the building.
Hm? I have no idea what this means.

Maybe the GDC's just taking us around in circles...


Funny you bring this up Libby...because the moment I heard that those were the coordinates for Copley Square, I immediately thought about the Hancock Tower...and the "Tracks" you see on it...here is why...

A little back history on the Hancock Tower...

A while back, the Hancock tower had some problems with wind. Apparently the high winds in the area would cause the tower to sway in such an extreme manner that it would cause the windows to fall out. To solve the problem, they gathered a group of engineers to figure out how to alleviate the problem.

What did they come up with for a solution?

They eliminated the top floor...put in some train tracks, and placed a counterweight on wheels on those tracks so that when the wind forces the building to sway in one direction, the weight moves in the opposite direction.

If you can find the correlation between the last number, and the height of the top floor...we might have an answer. Train tracks, counterweights, etc...

[Tottanka]

WOW!
Just now saw that there's a hint, and 8 more then a 100 posts already!

CD, you are crazy!!!

[dr1008]

whoever stated that we were going to use all 3 shapes i agree, if you look at the map there are circles squares and tryangles

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=copley+square&sll=42.351155,-71.072745&sspn=0.01589,0.029182&ie=UTF8&ll=42.349648,-71.07716&spn=0.001986,0.005407&t=h&z=18&om=1

[colin340]

.

The relation of Trinity Church to National Treasure, I think there maybe something to come out of that, like the fact there will yet again be three teams on an alliance. A few random facts about the history of the church,
Maybe one of those two facts can lead to something, if not it's odd history.

[/SIZE][/SIZE] i think that's the one in New York City http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Treasure_(film)

[alex1699]

the only number that not in there is 8,...

[Joe Matt]

Funny you bring this up Libby...because the moment I heard that those were the coordinates for Copley Square, I immediately thought about the Hancock Tower...and the "Tracks" you see on it...here is why...

A little back history on the Hancock Tower...

A while back, the Hancock tower had some problems with wind. Apparently the high winds in the area would cause the tower to sway in such an extreme manner that it would cause the windows to fall out. To solve the problem, they gathered a group of engineers to figure out how to alleviate the problem.

What did they come up with for a solution?

They eliminated the top floor...put in some train tracks, and placed a counterweight on wheels on those tracks so that when the wind forces the building to sway in one direction, the weight moves in the opposite direction.

If you can find the correlation between the last number, and the height of the top floor...we might have an answer. Train tracks, counterweights, etc...

Brilliant Andy, thanks for the insight (I'd give you rep if it wasn't for the fact that, you know, I already gave you some earlier). I really think you hit on something BIG here...

It seems like it is pretty well established that the first two numbers indicate a location, but with GDC, you can never be too sure.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting to start off with 342.24026 as a temperature (in Kelvin of course), so
342.24026 kelvin = 69.09026 degrees Celsius

I don't know, what you can do with that but I thought it was interesting, maybe there was a day that had that temperature that has signifigance? Or maybe someone on the GDC wants everyone to know more about global warming. This hint is starting to remind me the one that corresponded to Triple Play, quirky stuff.

The relation of Trinity Church to National Treasure, I think there maybe something to come out of that, like the fact there will yet again be three teams on an alliance. A few random facts about the history of the church,
Maybe one of those two facts can lead to something, if not it's odd history.

Oh and as an Art History Geek, the Church is in a Romanesque Style, which means the arches are rounded, maybe that has something to do with the field.
***************************************
THE WATER GAME CONNECTION!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!
So Trinity Church and Copley Square are located in the Back Bay Section of Boston and for those of you who do not know what that means....

Back Bay is a section of Boston that used to be the Back Bay of the City....before they filled it in with Dirt, Clay, Mud, Rocks, and whatever else they could find.

So that means...the game starts in water, and they fill it in with a bunch of stuff. Then as the temperatures begin to rise (see the first thing I stated, about global warming) the environment on the field changes and all of a sudden it goes back to a water game, so teams are challenged to stop the water from coming back and flooding the game area again, kind of like preventing global warming.

Ok I'm done, yeah I looked up the coordinates of the numbers in different orders, looks like I stumbled upon a Red Herring several times. Have fun figuring this one out!


You're crazy Conor. :p But again, that's why I love ya...

Personally, the big things that matter (IMHO)....

a.) Hancock Tower's Engeering Problems
b.) Direction points to Manchester
c.) Tracks

[StephLee]

Additional bit of information that connects to my earlier post:

Jerry Garcia (lead singer of the Grateful Dead) was found dead in his room at a rehab clinic on August 9, 1995, at 4:23 AM. 324 backwards. I haven't found a connection to the date, but...

Gotta love those random coincidences. Or connections, depending on whether or not I'm right...

[alex1699]

copley type it in on the all mighty google and you get http://www.copleycontrols.com/

[ebarker]

If you can find the correlation between the last number, and the height of the top floor...we might have an answer. Train tracks, counterweights, etc...

A few months ago there was a little discussion I think on CD about "counterweights" in the upcoming season ?

[lukevanoort]

Y'know, if you switch the coordinates, you get a spot in Antarctica. There is a Trinity Church in Antarctica too. Its not near the coordinates though.:(

[JaneYoung]

They eliminated the top floor...put in some train tracks, and placed a counterweight on wheels on those tracks so that when the wind forces the building to sway in one direction, the weight moves in the opposite direction.

What a cool solution to the problem. Thank you for posting that information, Andy! Neato.

[charmed862]

Thinking clearly now- could it be a wavelength or frequency?

342 Hz is the low end of the vocal frequency range

copley type it in on the all mighty google and you get http://www.copleycontrols.com/

Don't know if i'm amking an accurate connection(most likely not) but maybe involving frecuencies???? any ideas or corrections to my idea?

[Taylor]

the only number that not in there is 8,...

Discworld fans will recognize twice four, or the sum of six and two, as the one number that must never be uttered by wizards. The cube of two represents the magical number, and its forms (octahedrons, octagons, etc) are considered very sacred. The eighth son of the eighth son is unavoidably a wizard (unless of course the eighth son of the eighth son turns out to be a daughter).
We can only hope that Bergholt Stuttley Johnson (aka Bloody Stupid Johnson) isn't designing the field....

[personfromhell]

this reminds me of all of the symbolism surrounding 'v' in v for vendetta.

[TeknicllyInsane]

Refering to an earlier post in which someone referenced This Comic (http://www.xkcd.com/240/). I went ahead and typed in the first number mentioned in the comic. it brought me HERE (http://flickr.com/photos/zebraman/sets/72157600031372508/).
Note the picture of the jungle gym, and click on it for the larger view seen HERE (http://flickr.com/photos/zebraman/436922378/in/set-72157600031372508/).
WHat on this earth is this jungle gym made of?
Triangular beams, Square grid for a net, and Spheres at each and every vertex.

ANd as an added bonus: the inside of the gym: http://flickr.com/photos/zebraman/436932817/
More triangles, squares, and spheres.
Probably an insane coincidence and not actual evidence but hey...

[legomaster3945]

New item in Dave's CD signature:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave's sig
The answers to one of the most oft-debated questions of the year is sitting right there in their hands, but they refuse to see it because it does not conform to their expectations.

Is he referring to this or the IR beacon and ribbon cable?


i dont think he is refering to either of these
I THINK ITS THE ANSWER TO THE WATER GAME
drop the idea of boston figure out every connection to water with these numbers

[Cameragirl65]

Today was the release date for National
Treasure 2-book of Secrets Movie-hence the reason why the hint was
released today. The (Clue) coordinates point
to...downtown Boston--Trinity Church--the court yard. (in the air above)

If you have seen the first National Treasure Movie--
one of the clues in the movie ( "along the wall"--wall street) was
Trinity Church in Boston

The game clue (rhyme) that FIRST put out at the end of last season
had something about Wall street.

I don't know about you guys--but We are watching the First National
Treasure movie tonight!
Cameragirl65 :ahh:
Team 1510 Admin
PR/Media/Marketing Mentor

[StephLee]

Today was the release date for National
Treasure 2-book of Secrets Movie-hence the reason why the hint was
released today. The (Clue) coordinates point
to...downtown Boston--Trinity Church--the court yard. (in the air above)

If you have seen the first National Treasure Movie--
one of the clues in the movie ( "along the wall"--wall street) was
Trinity Church in Boston

The game clue (rhyme) that FIRST put out at the end of last season
had something about Wall street.

I don't know about you guys--but We are watching the First National
Treasure movie tonight!
Cameragirl65 :ahh:
Team 1510 Admin
PR/Media/Marketing Mentor

If you mean Woodie's clue, it referred to the stock market (close enough to wall street). But, the Trinity Church in the movie is in NYC, not Boston.

Still, it's another connection...

[Jessica Boucher]

A little back history on the Hancock Tower...


Some more back history on the Hancock....the positioning of the building and the use of the mirrors were used so that when you stand on the corner of Clarendon Street and St. James Avenue you can see the reflection of the old two John Hancock buildings in the glass of the new one.

Mirrors, anyone?

[finaldark]

Guys we got the coordinate idea.. it doesn't seem to be revealing anything at all..


Think different, no more coordinates, lets try something else. what else could those numbers represent?

[PhilBot]

We know that If you take the lat/long and feed it into google earth, and then zoom in, there is some kind of thing right at the exact coordinates.

I don't think it's a "coincidence" that there is something at that exact coordinate. You can change the last digit of the lat-long and it doesn't move the target. That amount of precision is good to a few inches.

I checked out all the images and came up with one that shows the quad lamp at that point.

Here is the link. The lamp is in the lower right corner.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3136639.jpg

Quad.... where have I seen that lately on the FIRST site ....?

Phil.

[Aren_Hill]

Guys we got the coordinate idea.. it doesn't seem to be revealing anything at all..


Think different, no more coordinates, lets try something else. what else could those numbers represent?


I'd have to say it has revealed a large amount of info, given that we've found reference to the song "truckin" , Daves status on facebook was also "truckin".
And the Hancock tower has 2 HUGE counterweights in the top a really unique system that has to be quite rare. And i don't think its by chance we've been pointed towards it with gps coordinates.

i think 2 huge weights could be trucking

[lasereyes]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the third number is a direction?

342.242026 could mean 17.755974 degrees left of north?

Google Street view didn't show me anything too out of the ordinary when I looked in that direction, but I think someone else should take a look.

[finaldark]

We know that If you take the lat/long and feed it into google earth, and then zoom in, there is some kind of thing right at the exact coordinates.

I don't think it's a "coincidence" that there is something at that exact coordinate. You can change the last digit of the lat-long and it doesn't move the target. That amount of precision is good to a few inches.

I checked out all the images and came up with one that shows the quad lamp at that point.

Here is the link. The lamp is in the lower right corner.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3136639.jpg

Quad.... where have I seen that lately on the FIRST site ....?

Phil.


Well if you want to me be honest, if all it is revealing is the number 4, yea we get that already.. The IR sensor is able to be programmed for 4 commands, hence the 4 leds. Nobody understands what the hell the IR sensor is actually gonna do.. Maybe if we figured that out first, this new clue might help a ton...

[StephLee]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the third number is a direction?

342.242026 could mean 17.755974 degrees left of north?

Google Street view didn't show me anything too out of the ordinary when I looked in that direction, but I think someone else should take a look.

That was discussed earlier in the thread; someone's graphing job showed an arrow pointing directly at something called the Globe Cafe.

[popo308]

i dont think he is refering to either of these
I THINK ITS THE ANSWER TO THE WATER GAME
drop the idea of boston figure out every connection to water with these numbers

NO it is not referring to a water game!

I highly doubt that the GPS cord. just happens to point us toward the hancock tower which happen to has a very interesting balancing system with 2 HUGE weights in it. AND as Aren said dave's face book was "truckin" there also is a song and now we have to HUGE weights in the picture! ITS GPS

[StephLee]

NO it is not referring to a water game!

I highly doubt that the GPS cord. just happens to point us toward the hancock tower which happen to has a very interesting balancing system with 2 HUGE weights in it. AND as Aren said dave's face book was "truckin" there also is a song and now we have to HUGE weights in the picture! ITS GPS

Just remember that Dave changed his facebook status AFTER I posted my "Truckin'" theory.

[Aren_Hill]

Did he change it to "truckin" or away from truckin

[JaneYoung]

Just remember that Dave changed his facebook status AFTER I posted my "Truckin'" theory.

Well, not that I'm confused but...
what does truckin' have to do with weight/counterweight?

[finaldark]

Well the only thing i could see from higher up, was the Letters EI in that building there. I dont think that helps with anything.. but its never something to be ignored.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5900/teheiuz0.jpg

[StephLee]

Did he change it to "truckin" or away from truckin

To truckin'.

Well, not that I'm confused but...
what does truckin' have to do with weight/counter weight?

I'm not actually sure, I don't know where the connection was made. I just wanted to remind them that Dave's status can't be taken as confirmation, since it came after my post.

[popo308]

Just remember that Dave changed his facebook status AFTER I posted my "Truckin'" theory.

I still dont think its just a coincidence that its pointing almost to a building with 2 HUGE weights in the roof of it... you dont see that every day

[Aren_Hill]

Well, not that I'm confused but...
what does truckin' have to do with weight/counter weight?

depends on your definition of "trucking" but i think 2 huge weights and a building moving underneath them has some reference to large masses moving

[JaneYoung]

I just googled counterweight to see if it is one word and went into Wikipedia.
Have you guys seen Dave's thread about Pixar?

Remember the desk lamp?

That is given as an example of a counterweight, I believe.

Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterweight

[finaldark]

depends on your definition of "trucking" but i think 2 huge weights and a building moving underneath them has some reference to large masses moving

agreed*.

were gonna be movin large jugs of ice cold water. (just kidding rofl)


On a serious note, Lets think now. IR sensor, and moving weights... I really think we need to clean up that "342.242026"

We really don't exactly know why they threw that number at us.. we have ideas, but nothing solid. The coordinates are definitely a good lead, but were missing something big..

[lasereyes]

That was discussed earlier in the thread; someone's graphing job showed an arrow pointing directly at something called the Globe Cafe.

But what if we look in the oposite direction (i.e. have someone stand in that location and look in that direction, in which case, they would be looking at the north 'gate' of the square. In which case, there are 2 obelisks. Could that represent anything?

I have an image of it:
The 'obelisks' (http://robotics.sanmarinmustang.org/images/files/frc_hint2a.jpg)

[popo308]

But what if we look in the oposite direction (i.e. have someone stand in that location and look in that direction, in which case, they would be looking at the north 'gate' of the square. In which case, there are 2 obelisks. Could that represent anything?

I have an image of it:
The 'obelisks' (http://robotics.sanmarinmustang.org/images/files/frc_hint2a.jpg)



AHHHH there is way to much symbolism!!

[finaldark]

well you could compare the obelisks to a pivot point, as in the wikipedia. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c4/Simple_Crane_diagram..png/400px-Simple_Crane_diagram..png

might sound stupid, but that image may very well represent the field... think about it, we have the ideas of counterweights, and if that image is what were after with the obelisks... well then.. put the two together and you got yourself a lever, something on it probably controled by IR, and it has counter weights..

[StephLee]

depends on your definition of "trucking" but i think 2 huge weights and a building moving underneath them has some reference to large masses moving

I actually think the important part of the "Truckin'" reference (if it's real) is the chorus:

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

[finaldark]

I actually think the important part of the "Truckin'" reference (if it's real) is the chorus:

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

sure why not.


Sometimes the light's all shining on me - Im not a disabled robot
Other times I can barely see - the other teams human player made me unable to do anything, via their IR remote..


Lately it occurs to me - that i have no freakin idea what these clues mean

[Aren_Hill]

I actually think the important part of the "Truckin'" reference (if it's real) is the chorus:

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

I think that it'll involve both references just a hunch (probably completely wrong:D )

[popo308]

I think that it'll involve both references just a hunch (probably completely wrong:D )

of course your completely wrong :yikes:

(heh i had to):D

[Big Kid]

anybody believe that this could be polar coordinates

[finaldark]

anybody believe that this could be polar coordinates

give it a shot, see what you get, its possible, we dont have any proof of anything ;)

[popo308]

give it a shot, see what you get, its possible, we dont have any proof of anything ;)

Ya this whole coordinate thing was basically someone bored wondering if it was possible that they were coordinates? so hey anything is possible at this point

[finaldark]

Ya this whole coordinate thing was basically someone bored wondering if it was possible that they were coordinates? so hey anything is possible at this point

and that is exactly what i said before.. Lets try and sit back for a minute, and look at the big picture.. Those numbers, the First hint we received.. Be creative here. Those coordinates point to a freakin lamp post.. god

[Big Kid]

polar coordinates can accually find the polar curve of an object such as a radio antenna to find the distance it can travel and where it came from like finding the epicenter of an earthquake

Edit: at least that is what i'm reading off the math site im on for calculus level stuff.

[geeknerd99]

Great. I get back from working on my new house.... and the speculation floodgates are blown wide open.... again.

Didn't sift through the pages beyond 4 or so, but have we made any use of the fact that the IR board is meant to be programmed?

Just throwing it out there.

[JaneYoung]

Mirrors, anyone?

Does light bend in mirrors?

I'm thinking about another spotlight Dave made of Mr. Kressly's comment about water, air-water interface.

[lasereyes]

Great. I get back from working on my new house.... and the speculation floodgates are blown wide open.... again.

Didn't sift through the pages beyond 4 or so, but have we made any use of the fact that the IR board is meant to be programmed?

Just throwing it out there.

I thought of the same thing, but why 3 numbers (and the negative number kinda throws it off).

I just think it cant be a coincidence that the first 2 numbers land EXACTLY in the middle of a public place in the middle of major city. It's near impossible (like the chances of an asteroid hitting a major city, instead of in an ocean, as three-fourths of the Earth is water)!

[Scott L.]

Does light bend in mirrors?

I'm thinking about another spotlight Dave made of Mr. Kressly's comment about water - water/air interface

depends on the type of mirror.
It bends in rear silver mirrors (normal mirrors)
it doesn't bend in front silvered mirrors(those used in projection tvs)

[dani190]

Ok i think that this stuff is really planned. Obviously they did some thinking and this has been all planned out.

so basically we think it could be showing us what the game is....

Codes to code the IR remote.

Anything else?

Personally i like the idea of it showing us what the field will look like.....

[geeknerd99]

Center in the Square is a sorta marketplace/gallery thing in Roanoke, but that's HIGHLY unlikely.

What about some sort of zone-control dealie? Something like playing Aim High on the Triple Play field and using the balls to change possession/score? Not sure how IR would factor into that. Maybe use that to change the type of ammunition? Trigger a game piece dispenser?

[dani190]

Center in the Square is a sorta marketplace/gallery thing in Roanoke, but that's HIGHLY unlikely.

What about some sort of zone-control dealie? Something like playing Aim High on the Triple Play field and using the balls to change possession/score? Not sure how IR would factor into that. Maybe use that to change the type of ammunition? Trigger a game piece dispenser?


I think this year it will be about precision. The ir transmitter maybe is something to produce precise shots maybe?

[Big Kid]

okay so 42.349905=X -71.076072 =Y 342.242026=Z

and that means r (the distance from the origin) is = 352.10073391721704 feet or miles
φ (the angle from the z- axis)= 1.0334419056850023 degrees
θ (the angle from the x- axis)=0.23719750535693354 degrees

the origin i believe is the lat and long. like it has been worked out be for.

that is what I have, now if this is of any use someone will be able to figure this out but me being a freshman i have almost no knowledge of this stuff yet so i'm done for today,

(my head hurts now)

[sishu7]

I think the numbers represent the stock of VEX. Right at the tail end of the -71.076072 is where Radio Shack jumped ship and IFI took hold.

I like this.... Dave mentioned the stock market earlier, right?

[JB987]

Ok, I'm jumping in here...sometimes the truth is before our eyes if we will only see. Coordinates of a square at "Rainbow Street" and we receive an IR board with a rainbow colored multi-cable. A rainbow is arched...arched structure on the field? Also...counterweights/fulcrums could reference a "teeter-totter" field element as other robotic games have used in the past (Woodie had one as an element in one of his classes that was highlighted on a PBS special many years ago)...imagine a huge teeter totter center field and low barriers like 2003?? Ok, enough already...my 4 cents...

[sishu7]

okay so 42.349905=X -71.076072 =Y 342.242026=Z

and that means r (the distance from the origin) is = 352.10073391721704 feet or miles
φ (the angle from the z- axis)= 1.0334419056850023 degrees
θ (the angle from the x- axis)=0.23719750535693354 degrees

the origin i believe is the lat and long. like it has been worked out be for.

that is what I have, now if this is of any use someone will be able to figure this out but me being a freshman i have almost no knowledge of this stuff yet so i'm done for today,

(my head hurts now)

I believe we need to work within a 2-coordinate "map" system. I have no way of placing a decent "origin" on the earth and deciding which axis will be which. I think an angle - distance, latitude-longitude, or other well-known system is the best way to go. The third "variable" will not refer to space, but to time -

Unless, of curse we're all totally wrong and Dave is messing with our heads.

[sishu7]

Ok, I'm jumping in here...sometimes the truth is before our eyes if we will only see. Coordinates of a square at "Rainbow Street" and we receive an IR board with a rainbow colored multi-cable. A rainbow is arched...arched structure on the field? Also...counterweights/fulcrums could reference a "teeter-totter" field element as other robotic games have used in the past (Woodie had one as an element in one of his classes that was highlighted on a PBS special many years ago)...imagine a huge teeter totter center field and low barriers like 2003?? Ok, enough already...my 4 cents...

I really like the rainbow connection. I'm not sure about the teeter totter but it goes with "the past gives hints as to the future" vibe that Dave seemed to be in agreement with...

[Bsteckler]

Compleatly Uneducated Guess...

I like the thought that these might be used to program the IR controler, can this thing only receive or does it transmit also? I haven't really played with it. Another thought, how about we play with these numbers some, 42.349905 rounded to the nearest tenth is 42.3, -71.076072 rounded to the nearest tenth is -71, and 342.242026 rounded to the nearest tenth is 342.2, the first and last two numbers are exactly 299.9 apart. This is probably nothing, though.

[Aren_Hill]

does the moon or mars have longitude and latitude?:D

[Big Kid]

does the moon or mars have longitude and latitude?:D

every planet has longitude and latitude, accually any spherical object can have longitude and latitude

[Aren_Hill]

well i meant well established enough to see where these coordinates fall

[JaneYoung]

I really like the rainbow connection.
John Boucher posted this thread about a wonderful professor at MIT very recently.
In one lesson, he uses himself as a pendulum.
In another lesson, he talks about rainbows.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60232

Oh, also - I think John's avatar has to do with the Grateful Dead/Mr. Garcia.

Edit: I think the lesson on rainbows was: Polarization - Lightwaves, Rainbows, and Cheap Sunglasses.
http://web.mit.edu/physics/facultyandstaff/faculty/walter_lewin.html

[sishu7]

wait... the moon and mars thing wasn't a joke?????

[Aren_Hill]

remember its a hint come on people. anythings fair game. just keepin it lighthearted.

[Binome]

These numbers defninitly are not something that would get piped into the IR board, at least over IR. There weirdly exact for pulse widths, one's negative(?). Maybe there's a hidden serial mode that dumps out the entire game manual on it :)

[Big Kid]

well i meant well established enough to see where these coordinates fall

yeah i think they are established enough to find these coordinates on there.

[Saru29]

Those are spherical coordinates.

Oh boy.....We are gonna be launching something.

[Big Kid]

Those are spherical coordinates.

Oh boy.....We are gonna be launching something.

i already ran the numbers check my first post on page 12

[popo308]

hmm that would be interesting to be launching something but how would those numbers be of any importance to us right now?? that is if the were coordinates for launching stuff.

[steadfasttuna]

We know that If you take the lat/long and feed it into google earth, and then zoom in, there is some kind of thing right at the exact coordinates.

I don't think it's a "coincidence" that there is something at that exact coordinate. You can change the last digit of the lat-long and it doesn't move the target. That amount of precision is good to a few inches.

I checked out all the images and came up with one that shows the quad lamp at that point.

Here is the link. The lamp is in the lower right corner.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3136639.jpg

Quad.... where have I seen that lately on the FIRST site ....?

Phil.

Quad Quandary is the name of this years FTC game...

[Big Kid]

hmm that would be interesting to be launching something but how would those numbers be of any importance to us right now?? that is if the were coordinates for launching stuff.

well accually polar coordinates can be used to find polar curves too, and maybe there maybe another thing, remember the mirror thing what if these numbers tell us something about the reflection of those mirrors at these numbers.

Honestly, i don't think this hint has anything to do with the IR board

[popo308]

well accually polar coordinates can be used to find polar curves too, and maybe there maybe another thing, remember the mirror thing what if these numbers tell us something about the reflection of those mirrors at these numbers.

Honestly, i don't think this hint has anything to do with the IR board

I would have to agree with you there

[PhilBot]

Quad Quandary is the name of this years FTC game...

My point exactly....

[rees2001]

So....
42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

I have read through all of this & I have only come up with questions. I guess I'll throw them out there like I would with my team.

1. How accurate are the coordinates?
1a. What does the Hancock tower look like?
1b. What is in John Singleton Copley's hands? (only thinking this because of that crazy Dave)
1c. What is in our hands... thinking....?
2. Has anybody tried to search the numbers in something other than Google earth?
2a. If you think the first 2 numbers are coordinates, what id the third number? ( I know that has been discussed about at great length) What if we are off on all 3 numbers?



So...
After all of my thinking I'll leave you with this (& I hope I hasn't been discussed because it took me a half hour of thinking to come to this.

What is in the reflection of the John Hancock tower? The 2 Old Hancock Towers. What is at the top of the Old Hancock Tower? I'll let you figure that out.

[pandamonium]

three numbers triangulation, two buildings reflected off of a third. hmmmm


any body smart enough to brake out sin cos tan cot cos sec on these numbers? sadly i am not

[popo308]

So....
42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

I have read through all of this & I have only come up with questions. I guess I'll throw them out there like I would with my team.

1. How accurate are the coordinates?
1a. What does the Hancock tower look like?
1b. What is in John Singleton Copley's hands? (only thinking this because of that crazy Dave)
1c. What is in our hands... thinking....?
2. Has anybody tried to search the numbers in something other than Google earth?
2a. If you think the first 2 numbers are coordinates, what id the third number? ( I know that has been discussed about at great length) What if we are off on all 3 numbers?



So...
After all of my thinking I'll leave you with this (& I hope I hasn't been discussed because it took me a half hour of thinking to come to this.

What is in the reflection of the John Hancock tower? The 2 Old Hancock Towers. What is at the top of the Old Hancock Tower? I'll let you figure that out.

In the top floor of the tower there are two huge 300 ton weights to help the building stay straight. On top of the building there is an observation trolley on tracks that was closed down because of the world trade center crash. I think the coordinates are more concerned towards that building because it is very unique in the way it looks (the other 2 reflecting) and the way it works (the giant weights) As someone else has said the EXACT coordanants point to a LIGHT POLE!! geez! common

[Donut]

2. Has anybody tried to search the numbers in something other than Google earth?

Well, I at least did the usual google search for each individual number. Nothing comes up for any of the 3 numbers except for this CD thread, which means prior to the e-mail being sent out nothing came up at all on google for these numbers.

Maybe the GDC is telling us all we do this game is stand there and do nothing :p

[legomaster3945]

i went out on a limb and searched it on google mars (yes they have google mars (http://www.google.com/mars/)) and it doesnt support coodinates
(i know there is probably no corrilation but worth a try)

[maltz1881]

Something I noticed is that it is also on St. James Ave. Anybody up for a game of Monopoly? No sleep for me for the next 2 weeks. :ahh:

[DRH2o]

What is in our hands right now is a mouse !! :yikes:

[popo308]

In the top floor of the tower there are two huge 300 ton weights to help the building stay straight. On top of the building there is an observation trolley on tracks that was closed down because of the world trade center crash. I think the coordinates are more concerned towards that building because it is very unique in the way it looks (the other 2 reflecting) and the way it works (the giant weights) As someone else has said the EXACT coordanants point to a LIGHT POLE!! geez! common

Something I noticed is that it is also on St. James Ave. Anybody up for a game of Monopoly? No sleep for me for the next 2 weeks. :ahh:

same here... no sleep! heck yes!

[maltz1881]

Ok, I'm jumping in here...sometimes the truth is before our eyes if we will only see. Coordinates of a square at "Rainbow Street" and we receive an IR board with a rainbow colored multi-cable. A rainbow is arched...arched structure on the field? Also...counterweights/fulcrums could reference a "teeter-totter" field element as other robotic games have used in the past (Woodie had one as an element in one of his classes that was highlighted on a PBS special many years ago)...imagine a huge teeter totter center field and low barriers like 2003?? Ok, enough already...my 4 cents...

I hope and pray FIRST will never do the teeter totter again. It was a diaster that year.

[team2061]

In the top floor of the tower there are two huge 300 ton weights to help the building stay straight. On top of the building there is an observation trolley on tracks that was closed down because of the world trade center crash. I think the coordinates are more concerned towards that building because it is very unique in the way it looks (the other 2 reflecting) and the way it works (the giant weights) As someone else has said the EXACT coordanants point to a LIGHT POLE!! geez! common

woodie flowers clue does say something about being careful with jello. jello is unstable just as the building would be without the 300 ton weights. hmmmm

[popo308]

woodie flowers clue does say something about being careful with jello. jello is unstable just as the building would be without the 300 ton weights. hmmmm

It was very unstable. engineers actually had to shut it down and add about 3 million dollars of steal cross beams because it was swaying way to much.

[popo308]

wow not even 7 hours and 200 posts! WOW

[joeweber]

Remeber the GAME TIP IT, you add weights to tip it one way or the other.

[JaneYoung]

It was very unstable. engineers actually had to shut it down and add about 3 million dollars of steal cross beams because it was sawing way to much.

I'm sorry, did you mean swaying? I got a visual of a building 'sawing' other buildings and it had to straighten up and stop.

[popo308]

I'm sorry, did you mean swaying? I got a visual of a building 'sawing' other buildings and it had to straighten up and stop.

Yes im sorry i haven't gotten any sleep lately because of CD. My spelling has been horrible today.... :D

ahh but sleep will come soon

[steadfasttuna]

ok so i have been mulling this over and i have a theory... that is pure speculation

first lets look at the song

Sometimes the light's all shining on me--regular field lights on
Other times I can barely see-- black lights on, field lights off
Lately it occurs to me-- i have nothing
What a long strange trip it's been-- i got nothing


The first two numbers are the coordinates pointing to the light pole with 4 lights. This is referencing the FTC game Quad Quandary. The FRC game will be essentially the same except we will have circles, squares and triangles to put onto corresponding posts. As for the third number, it is the approximate wavelength of black light so randomly the field lights will go out and black lights will come on. The posts that we have to score on will be emitting different IR frequencies and that is how the robot will know what post it is in front of during autonomous and when the black lights are on because the drivers will not be able to see the posts.

[team2061]

I cant stop hitting the refresh button every 10 seconds!!! awwwwww!!!!! no sleep for me this winter break!!!

[popo308]

ok so i have been mulling this over and i have a theory... that is pure speculation

first lets look at the song

Sometimes the light's all shining on me--regular field lights on
Other times I can barely see-- black lights on, field lights off
Lately it occurs to me-- i have nothing
What a long strange trip it's been-- i got nothing


The first two numbers are the coordinates pointing to the light pole with 4 lights. This is referencing the FTC game Quad Quandary. The FRC game will be essentially the same except we will have circles, squares and triangles to put onto corresponding posts. As for the third number, it is the approximate wavelength of black light so randomly the field lights will go out and black lights will come on. The posts that we have to score on will be emitting different IR frequencies and that is how the robot will know what post it is in front of during autonomous and when the black lights are on because the drivers will not be able to see the posts.

Very cool concept that would look cool to because you can actually see the infa-red signal in black light. its cool

[Scott L.]

In refrence to the weights in the top of the building, I think episode 4 of the first season of Numb3rs deals with a building being unstable when the wind struct the building at a certain angle. The solution, if memory serves me, was to add the system of moving weights on the roof.

Just a possiblility, remember one years hint was "a shovels show" in refrence to Davis Spade of just shoot me. :D

[popo308]

In refrence to the weights in the top of the building, I think episode 4 of the first season of Numb3rs deals with a building being unstable when the wind struct the building at a certain angle. The solution, if memory serves me, was to add the system of moving weights on the roof.

Just a possiblility, remember one years hint was "a shovels show" in refrence to Davis Spade of just shoot me. :D

Interesting... Its weird how woodies hint about jello is actually somewhat relevant since we have this huge building which at one point was very "jelloish" as well. (unstable)


ok so not exactly jello but hey its a thought.

[JaneYoung]

In refrence to the weights in the top of the building, I think episode 4 of the first season of Numb3rs deals with a building being unstable when the wind struct the building at a certain angle. The solution, if memory serves me, was to add the system of moving weights on the roof.

Just a possiblility, remember one years hint was "a shovels show" in refrence to Davis Spade of just shoot me. :D

I think Andy Grady was talking about this earlier, if it is the same kind of idea.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=662585&postcount=115

[Swttrt224]

ok so i have been mulling this over and i have a theory... that is pure speculation

first lets look at the song

Sometimes the light's all shining on me--regular field lights on
Other times I can barely see-- black lights on, field lights off
Lately it occurs to me-- i have nothing
What a long strange trip it's been-- i got nothing


The first two numbers are the coordinates pointing to the light pole with 4 lights. This is referencing the FTC game Quad Quandary. The FRC game will be essentially the same except we will have circles, squares and triangles to put onto corresponding posts. As for the third number, it is the approximate wavelength of black light so randomly the field lights will go out and black lights will come on. The posts that we have to score on will be emitting different IR frequencies and that is how the robot will know what post it is in front of during autonomous and when the black lights are on because the drivers will not be able to see the posts.

I really like this idea...it kinda relates to an idea i had earlier about an "invisible maze" that we'd have to go through using the IR

[team2061]

My guess is that were going to have to stack unstable boxes on moving platforms that can be either controlled or just move around or maybe even stack it on your robot but wasnt this already used in the stacker game?

[popo308]

I think Andy Grady was talking about this earlier, if it is the same kind of idea.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=662585&postcount=115

The train tracks were actually for an observation trolley not weights.
The weights were inside the building hanging so when the building shifted they did not shift with it so the weight would help pull it back.

[popo308]

My guess is that were going to have to stack unstable boxes on moving platforms that can be either controlled or just move around or maybe even stack it on your robot but wasnt this already used in the stacker game?

I deff agree the game piece is prob going to be unstable and there might be something involving counterweight?!? (such as an endgame or autonomous)??

Just a thought:confused:

[PhilBot]

Since the first two numbers are such clear lat/long, it seems to me that the last number must be a compass bearing... but to what?

In the near range, it points to The Globe Bar and Grill....

See here... http://www.gearsinc.org/images/342_deg.jpg

But what about in the far field. Somone posted that it points to Manchester....

Well, yeah, sort of.

See here... http://www.gearsinc.org/images/342_deg2.jpg

In fact it's kinda close to the Manchester Memorial High School, where the FIRST FIRST games were held (took a while to find that name).

But it's still not close enough. The real heading to this school is 337 (not 342)

I was thinking that the clue was that the game would be a repeat of the 1992 game :)

Magneic deviation does mess with things, but it's about 15 degress in boston, so that's too much difference.

Sigh... Jerry Garcia is looking better all the time Steph :)

[Aren_Hill]

So, we need to stop and do a quick recap. Are these numbers pointing towards a game name, field element/setup, or sensor related things.

I myself am fairly certain of the first 2 numbers being coordinates just because of the chances that if there were something else how would they also point to the middle of a major city with so many interesting things around it.

I'm picturing counterweights on the field in some way/shape/form either allowing robots to pass somewhere or not.

The "truckin" reference with the lights and visual aspects Stephlee found is also quite profound being it was on Dave's choice of music for a competition. And would also fit using a combo of the cmucam and the newly acquired IR board.

That and the fact those coordinates point into the middle of an area thats been highlighted in several treasure hunt stories (Da Vinci Code, newly released National treasure)

Daves probably just having fun again and finally convinced the rest of the GDC how much fun it is screwing with us.


Wasn't there talk of a pvc gamepiece half filled with sand, water or some object therefore making it unstable? i seem to recall that and a pic of dave holding it

[popo308]

I have a feeling that the IR board will be used to do AUTO selection or something along those lines for autonomous. The RC still gets signal from the IR board when it is in disable mode and auto mode so the field could easily send the robots data before or during auto??

[steadfasttuna]

sorry for looking like a complete idiot but this is my first year doing FIRST, who is this Dave?:confused:

[Aren_Hill]

Dave Lavery, quite an interesting fellow
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=171

i actually don't even know how to explain him lol

[steadfasttuna]

Dave Lavery, quite an interesting fellow
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=171

ok that makes a lot of sense now, thanks;)

[JaneYoung]

ok that makes a lot of sense now, thanks;)

This might help as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Lavery

Basically, he's one cool guy.

[team2061]

Another thing to keep in mind is that usually the name of the game rhymes.For example rack n roll, stack attack, FIRST Frenzy, ect. so this may somehow help us...i think.lol

[popo308]

Another thing to keep in mind is that usually the name of the game rhymes.For example rack n roll, stack attack, FIRST Frenzy, ect. so this may somehow help us...i think.lol

hmmm but what to we have to rhyme off of?

[team2061]

hmmm but what to we have to rhyme off of?

something box, e.i stock box or vise versa

[legomaster3945]

it seems to me that they dont rhyme so much as have the first two letters the same but i know what u mean if i knew the time i think i could rhyme(ok so i couldnt help it)
hum sleep... :/
daves response "DO NOT WANT!!!! MUAHAHAAHAHAH"

[SgtMillhouse648]

hmmm but what to we have to rhyme off of?
copley square makes rip out my hair?

[popo308]

copley square makes me want to rip out my hair?

ahh very nice

[Alan Anderson]

Ok, so I did a little graphing. Straight from the coordinates, at 342 degrees, you're looking through the two obelisks, straight at the Globe Cafe.

I did the same thing, but I stopped when I found a fountain in that direction. It's right between the obelisks.

[amethyst23s]

ok, so I don't know much about this infrared sensor thing, but is it possible to input numbers? In which case... could the numbers in the clue be input? Or does it just measure light? In which case they could be a measurement? Or something along those lines... I think if FIRST is giving us 2 clues that they must be somehow connected.

[Arefin Bari]

I have a feeling that the numbers that are given to us has nothing to do with the coordinate system. Think about it, when did GDC ever gave us a clue where it was very obvious. When anyone sees those 3 numbers, they will think about the coordinate system.

I believe, the hints have a VERY obvious relation to the game that we are just not being able to relate to yet. Look at the previous year's game hints. In 2004, we were given a velocity and we were guessing robot speed when it was the mechanism speed. In 2006, we were told that there will be dangling pasta and we had many unique and intelligent guesses. I am loving the discussions we are having here about counterweights, places that are around the coordinates; but these 2 hints given to us will be messing with our heads until kickoff. Who knows, maybe we will get something else right after Christmas.

By the way, did FIRST ever email us the hints in previous years or were they given to us in other form?

[popo308]

I'm pretty sure it was just sent out via the FIRST-BLAST email list.

I do believe this is the first year they have actually sent us a part

[+()c|D]

I'm thinking that it might be the position of something on the game field. If each of the numbers given are in inches the maximum value is something like 28.5 feet.

i think that everyone is looking into the whole copley square thing. it does make sense, but then whats the third number for? as the mentor said above about position it makes a lot of sense. It might have something to do with the where the ir sensor on the field will be... Someone made a point about a rabbit and hare statue in copley square, it might be the thing that they were refering to with the square, but that just might be something that has nothing to do with it.

It looks like there are a lot of ideas running around about copley square, if there is any one who has other ideas about the hint please speak up because this forum has taken a turn to copley square and only that.

Here are the numbers again:
42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

[Mike Nawrot]

By the way, did FIRST ever email us the hints in previous years or were they given to us in other form?

I believe '05 and '06 were emailed.

After reading through all 16 pages, here's what I think:

First of all, I'm not completely ruling out the coordinates. It may be an obvious hint, but clearly interpreting it has proven to be very difficult. Keep in mind, Woodie works at MIT, right across the river from the coordinates given. Maybe Dave was visiting Woodie and happened to notice the Hancock building. Though many buildings throughout the world use sway dampers, I think the Hancock tower represents FIRST engineering quite well. They built a tower, realized there was a problem, and solved it with an innovative solution. We build robots, get to competition, and find innovative solutions to problems we were not expecting. In the past (alluding to Dave's signature), especially 2005, swaying has been a huge problem for some teams. The third number could be the height of the counterweight in the tower (I'm too tired to check right now).

As for the song idea,
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see"
Tracking the light with the CMU cam
other times, tracking IR (invisible to the human eye)

The one question that has been bothering me all along has been "why six decimal places?" The coordinates justify the accuracy, but height? The only thing I've seen a number of times with six decimal places of accuracy has been atomic mass... I checked, and no elements have any of those numbers as their mass. Maybe isotopes... Spelling words with elements? Masses of compounds, enthalpy and entropy? I had a chem test today...

Seriously though, what applications would use numbers that accurate? The Heading seems to point directly to the globe cafe. Maybe there's a hint in there. I've been racking my brain for hours now. Time to get some sleep

[Nuttyman54]

The FRC game will be essentially the same [As Quad Quandry] except we will have circles, squares and triangles to put onto corresponding posts.

...A similar game (http://users.wpi.edu/%7Esavage/Archives/2002/pictures.html)was developed a few years back at WPI for Savage Soccer...I got to play it, very interesting game...I don't know if it relates to this year's game at all tho

[JoeXIII'007]

342.24 hours in days gives 14 days 6 hours 14 mins and 31 seconds....
Kickoff is still 14 days, 16 hours and 12 minutes away
Maybe something happens at that time...which is 10 hours from now (approximately)
is anyone else reminded of XKCD comic number 240 (http://www.xkcd.com/240)?

I dunno if anyone branched off of this previously because I merely skimmed through the 200 something responses to the most ridiculous (or that's just how I perceive it, I may be wrong) game hint I have seen.

#1. Kudos for bringing in XKCD, I don't care if it gets anywhere, just major kudos to that reference. *Applause* XKCD is just an amazing comic, get the facebook feed if you can (that is, if you have facebook).

#2. From there, I have concluded that FIRST Frenzy has finally gotten its sequel. What is after the colon is still unknown, but I have a good gut feeling that FIRST Frenzy (or something of that nature) is part of the title.

#3. The Obelisks (or whatever you call those 2 spires across from the Globe Bar and Grill) I briefly read about remind me of the two major supports of the chin-up bar from 2004. Problem is that we have already done chin-ups in the past 4 years... what will be in the middle this year? IR something? A basket? What? I wouldnt know.

#4. Back to XKCD and the strange connection between that particular referenced comic (#240) and that last line of Dave Lavery's CD Signature:

It turns out wanting something doesn't make it real.
The answers to one of the most oft-debated questions of the year is sitting right there in their hands, but they refuse to see it because it does not conform to their expectations.

Wanting something does not make it real (there is no pot of gold at the end of a 'rainbow'(first clue)... refusing to see something because it does not conform to our expectations... HMMMMMMM....

"Sitting right there in their hands:" I have a keyboard, and even more directly, in my hands I have the many "Hairline" ridges that make various shapes (following a path this year for autonomous?... fun!). The keyboard though is as close to "hairline cracks" between keys (another XKCD #240 reference) that we are going to get, and looking at the pattern of these cracks, it looks much like a brick pattern of squares.

Conclusion: back to boxes after 4 years... sounds good to me. And do we build a wall between the obelisks this time around??? Oh yeah, can we put balls in the boxes this time??? :D

#5. The 342.242026 is something I would not want to guess for. Height and launching sure do come to mind. But if we were to consider them in other coordinate systems, it could not work in spherical since the third coordinate (phi) can only go as far as 180 (it would be a bit excessive to go beyond that without changing theta (second coordinate) around). Cylindrical though might work. Mapping though is good enough I would assume.

Otherwise, there's all my pocket change for now... hopefully the game will be fun this year.

-Joe

[Stephan S.]

hey everybody,
here is my guess for the hint:
i was playing with some temperature calculations (because of global warming and stuff..) and one of the numbers might be and freezing/melting/boiling point of a element/compound that will be used in the game and can be interacting with the sensorchip.
One of the numbers could also contain a thermal conductivity or something like that.

I hope all can enter the resources that i provided
by the way i used this online caculator.
http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm

I know that it is pretty obvious and probably not much of a hint-solution for FIRST, but it is still different than all the goggle-map things

happy hint hunting and happy holidays

[Optimizer]

it seems to me that they dont rhyme so much as have the first two letters the same but i know what u mean if i knew the time i think i could rhyme(ok so i couldnt help it)
hum sleep... :/
daves response "DO NOT WANT!!!! MUAHAHAAHAHAH"

It's called "alliteration", rather than "rhyming", when neighboring words have the same consonant sound at the beginning. Just FYI! :)

But sometimes they rhyme too, right?

Personally, I think the word to work off of is "Square". Note that the IR receiver has four signals it can recieve - as in the four sides of a square, perhaps?

[pandamonium]

this is actualy a very interesting and unique idea for the third number. time but not normal time. decimal dime.

Decimal time is the representation of the time of day using units which are decimally related. This term is often used to refer specifically to French Revolutionary Time, which divides the day into 10 decimal hours, each decimal hour into 100 decimal minutes and each decimal minute into 100 decimal seconds, as opposed to the more familiar standard time, which divides the day into 24 hours, each hour into 60 minutes and each minute into 60 seconds.

this article goes more into depth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time

One decimal second is 86,400/100,000 = 0.864 standard seconds
One decimal hour is 24/10 = 2.4 standard hours, or 2 standard hours and 24 standard minutes.

it is late and the math makes my head spin but this could make a different time that makes more sense

[Optimizer]

Some thoughts:

1) Anybody notice the similarity between Dave's what is "sitting right there in their hands" (a mouse?) and Woodie's "gerbils"?

2) Personally, I think Woodie's "Stock market" = "crash". So it's "Just be careful about the crash". Perhaps we will either need to catch something that is falling, or be wary of being hit by something. The "jello" could be some sort of cushioning (either to break the fall so the item doesn't break, or to protect us from the crash). The "gerbils" could be a control mechanism (mouse).

3) Could "K'nex blocks" be a reference to Lego robots? :confused:

:yikes:

[pandamonium]

i think we jumped the gun on this whole cordinate thing what else uses 6 decimal places. all three numbers are to the hundread thousandth place so they all refer to the same thing. What else besides cordinates uses numbers with 6 decimals? that is the real question.

[Binome]

okay, my grand unified theroy of everything

IR sensor= field control element, switched by robots. NOT INTENDED FOR USE ON THE ROBOT

Coordinates=seems to point to the globe bar and grill, which could be a throwback to "raising the bar" with balls and bars. Maybe the grill stands for what will serve as a game piece(balls) delivery mechanism.

After some more reading of what raising the bar auto, maybe instead of hitting the yellow ball in auto, its going to be "seek out green light, drive towards, transmit IR code"
I'm still clueless how human players will factor in the game. We'll all just have to find out on kickoff!

[daltore]

Just a thought, probably doesn't get us anywhere, but in standard C code, the undefined floating-point variable gives you 6 decimal places.

Also, I think we've been getting the tendency to get off on these wild strains, and while they're really cool, and lots of fun, you have to reverse-engineer them and think if it's really feasible for someone to come up with a message they want to send us, encode it in something, encode that in something else, etc., in the same order that we've managed to decode it. It is lots of fun on a Friday night when school's out, though.

[Optimizer]

D'ya suppose we could talk some Bostonian into finding a GPS set of some kind, and really seeing exactly where this spot is? (I don't trust those imaging web sites to be as accurate as we might need).

What are the odds that two numbers like that would coincidentally locate a landmark public spot in a major city? And right near MIT? They gotta be lat/lon!

[artdutra04]

Why not combine these two clues? After all, since there has never really been a precedent before of multiple game hints, we should probably consider both of these as a single game hint.


First off they give us a clue which is a IR receiver board. Then the second hint (if taken at face value) points us to the center of Copley Square in Boston, with the compass bearing pointing out the middle of the block, between two obelisks, towards Globe Deli.

While they could have chosen to give us just a lat/long coordinate, they gave us a bearing as well. So they obviously want us to look in that direction. Why? If we use Clue #1, they gave us a board to detect signals with a limited range of ± 30° to 40°.

Clue #1: Sensor board to detect IR pulse from limited range.
Clue #2: Possible lat/long coordinate with compass bearing, which points you towards a particular direction.

Σ Clues: Playing field that encourages us to point robots at targets, possibly one which only has a limited range from which you can approach it.


However, there can still be a lot left open by these targets. What are they? Do we pick up playing field objects from them, or score on them? Are these targets zones (like the grid of streets in Boston's Back Bay) broken up into "blocks", which we might gain points from by being in them? Or might we get points from bringing something like a mobile goal into them?

[Kyle O'Don]

In reference to the tangent about the moon and Mars, I plugged the first two numbers given by FIRST into Google Sky. However, it pointed to blackness that was not near any major systems or stars.

[chriswin]

if you punch the first two numbers into google earth, you get the trinity church in boston.

another thing to look into?

chris

myspace.com/team995

[Kyle O'Don]

There was a long discussion about Trinity church and a reference to National Treasure in previous posts. Besides, the numbers point in the center of the square not the church.

[amethyst23s]

The numbers are pretty ambiguous, but what about the Infrared sensor? It obviously has some use in the game, or else they wouldn't have sent one to each team... what could you do with an infrared sensor? They are used in motion detectors, or heat sensors...

Maybe we have an obstacle course made of some sort of infrared lazers!! Except that is not really a team sport, and they know most teams have trouble with autonomous functions...

[mackfix]

This just came to me. But, I think the first two numbers of the three number set is definitely coordinates. However if we take the third number 342.242026
and square it we get 117129.604360584676. Well what does this last number mean? Exactly how many years it will take us to figure out this game hint if they don't ever show us the game. It has to be it.

[Kyle O'Don]

The Trinity idea pulling on the different game pieces is probably pretty solid.

Since the first two numbers in the series were coordinates, that leads me to assume that the third is an elevation. 342.242026 is not in meters because it would be higher than all the buildings in that area. However, if it is in feet then it is still taller than most buildings, but not all.

I am fairly certain that the only building taller than 342.242026 feet and adjacent to Copley Square is John Hancock Place, which is 60 floors or 790 feet tall.

790 / 342.242026 = 2.308308 (Finding how tall the building is in relation to the height given by FIRST)

60 / 2.308308 = 25.993065 (dividing the number of floors in the building by the ratio above)

25.99 floors above ground is uncannily close to 26, considering the difference between the base of the building and sea level wasn't included.

So, what is on the 26th floor of the John Hancock Place, besides a non-existent message saying I just wasted part of my life?