**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3

[Mark McLeod]

Greetings Teams:

FRC Game Hint #3
Vet hurdling FIRST tetra

Encryption Test for 2008 Manual
The 2008 Decryption Test has been posted at http://www.usfirst.org/frc_documents (http://www.usfirst.org/frc_documents). Please follow the instructions on the Decryption page to make sure your computer has the proper software.

FRC will be posting the encrypted sections of the 2008 FRC Manual in approximately 24 hours.
Go Teams!

[SSMike]

Mark,
Do you think that FIRST will provide us with the key like they did for the 3rd clue or will we have to decrypt it ourselves?

[JohnBoucher]

A third hint :ahh: :ahh: :ahh:

[Kyle]

I'm not good at this stuff but could someone rearrange the letters and words in the new hint?

[Mark McLeod]

Do you think that FIRST will provide us with the key like they did for the 3rd clue or will we have to decrypt it ourselves?
They webcast the key at the close of the Kickoff show.

[Brandon Holley]

let the madness continue...

i dont even know what this could mean

[SSMike]

Thanks Mark, I forgot.

On Kyle's question: I did it but there are about 47,000 of them so if anyone wants to take a look, go ahead.

Here's the link: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Vet+hurdling+FIRST+tetra&language=english&t=0&d=&include=&exclude=&n=&m=&source=adv&a=n&l=n&q=n

[Richard McClellan]

Game Hint #3!!! Woo hoo!!! I called it: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=663254&postcount=390

[Tottanka]

OK.
Wikipedia says:
Hurdling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdling
combined with the statue at boston of the toroise, i put my 2 cents on a race of some sort. Vet for pet doctor also comes to the rabbit and tortoise...

Tetra is the number 4.

[Laaba 80]

I just had a long idea written up on the other post, and when I went to submit it the post was closed. :ahh: Basically I think the shapes of other game hints in order are square circle triangle, so I think it involves all those shapes. With this hint I think you may either need to shoot something over, a triangle tower, or place something on top of a triangle shaped stand.

[RKElectricalman]

I think hurdling should be read in a way meaning: "to over come a difficulty."

I honestly don't think our robots would be jumping.....But you never know. :o

So... What ever Vet is.. overcomes/solves the (issue of the) FIRST tetra?

[GBIT]

Wow i have nooooo clue what this could possibly mean, unless it has something to do with that game with tetras from the past (i don't remember the name). The all caps FIRST implies that it is talking about something with in the organization and just the first and it the beginning. so i may br the return of the tetras that would be soo cool.

[cdennisxlx2]

Hmm, ok so the first clue was the IR board, the second had triangles/circles/boxes, this one has vet and triangles.

#1: We arnt using triangles at all, but we use circles and boxes, the IR lets you choose which one you want to go for/score in autonomous.

#2: We use all three shapes but either the vet teams have to use the triangle or they cant touch it in autonomous

[Tottanka]

Wow i have nooooo clue what this could possibly mean, unless it has something to do with that game with tetras from the past (i don't remember the name). The all caps FIRST implies that it is talking about something with in the organization and just the first and it the beginning. so i may br the return of the tetras that would be soo cool.
That is 'Triple Play', 2005

[Elgin Clock]

I just had a long idea written up on the other post, and when I went to submit it the post was closed. :ahh:


Yeah... same here. That was very annoying. :mad:

[Richard McClellan]

So there were tubes at the ending of last year's kickoff (with Dean, Dave and Woodie sitting and talking about the 2008 game.

And there were triangles and squares seen everywhere in the Boston Square

And there are tetras in Game Hint #3.

I think the gamepieces are going to be a mix of all of those this year. And the challenge will be figuring out which ones to go for, and for the finals, figuring out how to create a strong alliance, maybe with one robot that can get each type of gamepiece.

That would definitely lead to having a bigger variety of robot designs on the field this year, which would be cool

[JaneYoung]

Game Hint #3!!! Woo hoo!!! I called it: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=663254&postcount=390

You did indeed, Richard!
Good call.

Do you have any tylenol handy?

--
I think 'vet' in this case means to check for authenticity and examine closely.

[legomaster3945]

AHAHAHA CRAZY i cant believe it
make us go crazy 3days 11hours and 50min before kickoff thats insane
ok
so hum this is really crazy
i think that scrambling the letters is a good idea ill try some rearranging
but i also think that it means something as it is so hum...

[GBIT]

Vets help animals right.........our robots are fierce like an animal.........maybe there is a helper/house robot this year!!!! and its game piece are tetras and you have to give it the tetras so it can score.

[Travis Hoffman]

Here we see a vet hurdling a FIRST tetra, kinda...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/175/17584ee71d57f3a63c1d97573f25b523_l.jpg

So Paul Copioli is the game piece for 2008. Expect a sample Copioli clone to be shipped with your Kit of Parts. Be careful - they bite!

[11Mort11]

heres a guess
since there is three different hints i guess there is going to be 3 different games that your robot has to be good at:confused:

even better the robot solves
game hints

[Richard McClellan]

AHAHAHA CRAZY i cant believe it
make us go crazy 3days 11hours and 50min before kickoff thats insane
ok
so hum this is really crazy
i think that scrambling the letters is a good idea ill try some rearranging
but i also think that it means something as it is so hum...

I think you may have calculated incorrectly.

2 days 16h 47m 32s til kickoff!

[EricH]

I'll try a word-by-word. Something might make sense.

Vet: 2 definitions. 1. Short for veteran. 2. Short for veterinarian.

hurdling: In track, the hurdles events involve a full-speed sprint, clearing obstacles known as hurdles.

FIRST: For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology

tetra: prefix for four. Also: FIRST slang for tetrahedron. See the 2005 game for uses of tetras.

So--I foresee a game that we've seen before in some form. There will be obstacles. Tetras will return somehow (the order of "FIRST tetra" suggests this). I'm basing the return on the first definition of "vet".

My mom thinks that the second definition of "vet" is more important, implying four-wheeled robots in conjunction with "tetra".

Oh, and Richard: There is one item that is a mix of all three. It's a traffic cone. The Copely Square hint seemed to indicate that as well. I hope against hope that those aren't the game pieces. More likely to be obstacles, but still...

BTW Dave, you successfully ruined the rest of my Christmas break. Congratulations.

[GBIT]

BTW Dave, you successfully ruined the rest of my Christmas break. Congratulations.

ditto.

[aero528]

I have a feeling that Vet does not stand for a pet doctor. I think it might stand for Veteran or something similar. So maybe the teams that are veterans (that played in the previous tetra game) will be given another chance to overcome that game(which didn't work out so well for many teams). This doesn't really combine well with the other clues, though. You could take the first clue to be a rectangle(the shape of the board), the second clue to be gps and bearing, point to the Globe Bar and Grill(circle), and this third clue to be about triangles. If you look at the FIRST logo reading from right to left it is square, circle, triangle. Can't wait for kickoff!

[Frinkahedron]

Dave's just having fun now. Only 3 days left and he still throws curveballs.

[GBIT]

I have a feeling that Vet does not stand for a pet doctor. I think it might stand for Veteran or something similar. So maybe the teams that are veterans (that played in the previous tetra game) will be given another chance to overcome that game(which didn't work out so well for many teams).

hahah i have heard some interesting stories.

[JaneYoung]

Dave's just having fun now. Only 3 days left and he still throws curveballs.

It's not just Dave, it is the entire GDC. Go GDC!

[cdennisxlx2]

This just made my winter xmas/vacation as a mentor :) great gift dave ;)

[Andy Grady]

Does this mean im not getting my footballs?

I think im gonna cry...:(

[GBIT]

It's not just Dave, it is the entire GDC. Go GDC!

GDC = Gosh Darn Confusing

im in awe at how fas they make my head hurt.

[aero528]

hahah i have heard some interesting stories.


Yeah, I don't want to talk about that game.....6 motor drive train, titanium...and the claw didn't work. Grrr.... I really feel that this mention of the tetra would imply that they are coming back in some form or other.

[EricH]

It's not just Dave, it is the entire GDC. Go GDC!
Don't encourage them!

Oh great, a brainstorm. Three hints is probably also a clue. What game had a clue with a lot of 3's referenced? Triple Play. Shortly after the season, someone suggested Triple Replay. I think I know what's coming...

[technoL]

hurdling = speed bumps?

Okay, I'm done with speculation. There are only a few more days until Kickoff anyway...

[GBIT]

Yeah, I don't want to talk about that game.....6 motor drive train, titanium...and the claw didn't work. Grrr.... I really feel that this mention of the tetra would imply that they are coming back in some form or other.

YAY!!!!! This sounds like fun. this was the game right before i started FIRST and i really wanted to try to see how i would of done it, now i may get my chance.

[GBIT]

Don't encourage them!

Oh great, a brainstorm. Three hints is probably also a clue. What game had a clue with a lot of 3's referenced? Triple Play. Shortly after the season, someone suggested Triple Replay. I think I know what's coming...

TRIPLE PLAY 2.0!!!

[Goober!!!]

I think this might mean that veterans of the 2005 game (Triple Play) might have an advantage?

[Richard McClellan]

I have a feeling that Vet does not stand for a pet doctor. I think it might stand for Veteran or something similar. So maybe the teams that are veterans (that played in the previous tetra game) will be given another chance to overcome that game(which didn't work out so well for many teams). This doesn't really combine well with the other clues, though. You could take the first clue to be a rectangle(the shape of the board), the second clue to be gps and bearing, point to the Globe Bar and Grill(circle), and this third clue to be about triangles. If you look at the FIRST logo reading from right to left it is square, circle, triangle. Can't wait for kickoff!

Giving veterans a "second chance" at picking up tetras sounds like a reasonable possibility, but I really hope this is not the case. Tetras were not my favorite gamepiece :eek:

[garyk]

Yeah... same here. That was very annoying. :mad:

I understand your frustration, but combining two threads into one will (help) prevent confusion and redundancy - I was going to do the same but Karthik got there first.

GaryK

[SSMike]

I think this might mean that veterans of the 2005 game (Triple Play) might have an advantage?

This is not MTV and the Gauntlet (good show though). FIRST wouldn't give an advantage to veterans unless they won it.

[Richard McClellan]

I understand your frustration, but combining two threads into one will (help) prevent confusion and redundancy - I was going to do the same but Karthik got there first.

GaryK

Can regular users combine threads? or do you have to be a moderator to do that?

[GBIT]

You need to be a mod i think

[Michael Sperber]

I'll try a word-by-word. Something might make sense.

Vet: 2 definitions. 1. Short for veteran. 2. Short for veterinarian.

If we look at the "newest addition to the 2008 KOP," the second definition starts to make more sense:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59497

[JaneYoung]

I think this might mean that veterans of the 2005 game (Triple Play) might have an advantage?

I wouldn't worry about this.
And I wouldn't get stuck on one definition of vet.

Look at the regionals and compare the numbers of new teams and veterans teams.
It varies according to regionals so it would vary in the competitions.

Options could mean something just as they have for several seasons but please don't get hung up on any assumptions that would cause rookie mentors' blood pressure to spike! :)

[JoeXIII'007]

FRC Game Hint #3
Vet hurdling FIRST tetra

One tetra, not tetras

Thus not a return of triple play, where there were many.

That picture of Paul on top of the center tetra...
The obelisks at copley square, the way it reminded me of 04's main support for the hang bar

I have a real odd feeling that some form of "King of the Hill" is going be a part of this game. There prolly will be a tetra in the middle... a bit bigger than '05.

That' all I have to say with regards to this hint. I'm baffled otherwise.

-Joe

[SteveGPage]

I am a mentor in Southern Maryland - Team 836 - this hint actually strikes me as something that happens around here. Each summer, at the US Naval Academy, the plebes have to climb an obelisk and put a "cap" on the top. This hint sounds very similar to what the plebes have to do. Here is an excerpt from an NPR article on this event.

The first-year students of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., graduated from plebe to third-class status on Thursday. All they have left to do is climb the Herndon Monument, a 21-foot, gray obelisk.

That is not an easy task. Upper classmen lather the monument with 200 pounds of lard. The plebes must work together to climb to the top of the monument and replace a white, plebe "Dixie cup" hat with an upperclassman's hat.

Here is the link to the article, and the picture of them climbing the obelisk.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10258246

So to echo several other posts - sounds like a king of the hill competition to me as well! Come to the Chesapeake Regional to see the real thing - the obelisk, that is! :)

[Stephi Rae]

Personally, I can't get past the idea that we're going to have to be climbing or getting over something. I am a second year FIRSTer, but it seems like for at least the past two years there has been something to climb, whether it be part of the field or an alliance member. What I keep coming back to is maybe a ramp and platform, similar to a speed bump as mentioned in a previous post, that maybe you have to get over in order to reach the game pieces... as far as vet... if you take it as veterinarian, maybe something to do with fixing something? the IR could tell you which piece is which and where it goes? then you have to assemble, or put in order, the game pieces... maybe you have to MAKE a tetra? wow, that would be interesting...

[MrForbes]

The first-year students of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md.,

Navy?

did someone say Water Game?

[Chuck Glick]

FIRST Tetra = 1st 4

First season of 4 v 4?

[GBIT]

Navy?

did someone say Water Game?

Oh don't even start that!!! :)

[Kaushal.K]

The IR sensor (aka Game Hint #1) was first introduced to the competition in 2005 (if I understand correctly)... 2005 was also the year the game pieces were Tetra's (aka Game Hint #3 anybody?)... conincidence? or a possible connection between the two??

My guess it that the competition will involve a larger Tetra in the centre of the field from which (and ONLY from which) teams may score other game pieces (Squares and Circles) lying on the field...

2 days 16 hrs.. i wish time would just speed up so the season would start.. =)

[GBIT]

Maybe VETerans (of triple play) need to score with tetras (third hint) and the new teams score with Squares (2nd hint) and they all need to use the IR to know where to score (first hint)

[garyk]

2005's game "Triple Play" included (introduced? it was my rookie year) the CMU camera. Some tetra game pieces had a plywood panel attached, with instructions for the exact shade of green to paint them. (Pix: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/TriplePlay.jpg)
The autonomous mode comprised finding the green panel with the camera and placing the tetra on a goal tower, along with some easier but less lucrative functions. The camera/plywood combination was a complete flop, and most teams didn't bother mounting the camera on their 'bot. 2006 "Aim High" introduced the green light panel, and in 2007 "Rack 'n Roll" there were four light panels. Now we have another optical element (or at least a hint), the IR sensor board. The trend from 2005 has been to include the camera/light combination and it's my guess it will continue. Of course, we'll find out soon!

On the west coast we'll be viewing the Kickoff at 7 AM (ugh). My admiration goes to the Alaskan teams (6 AM) and Hawiian (5 AM).

Programmers: check out my programming class: Chief Delphi => CD Media => White Papers => Applied Robot Programming for FRC 'bots

[cdennisxlx2]

The IR sensor (aka Game Hint #1) was first introduced to the competition in 2005 (if I understand correctly)... =)

2004 was IR, 05 was the CMU Cam

[GRST]

How about... Rack n' Roll with a Tetra!

Instead of the Rack, you have a gigantic tetra which you somehow score on. your robot can lock onto IR targets (seeing the success with which we used the green lights, those are probably out).

Perhaps there is also an element of Raising the Bar, where you have to hang on something or get over something- if you get over the Tetra you get extra points? There might be some device which the robot would have to use to get over- maybe an element found on Copley Square?

[Kaushal.K]

ahh.. thanks for the correction.. then i have to go with what Gary says about the Sensor + Light combination...

Now we have another optical element (or at least a hint), the IR sensor board. The trend from 2005 has been to include the camera/light combination and it's my guess it will continue.

[GRST]

Why would they have two sources of radiation (light + IR)? That would make the game needlessly complicated. Then again, that seems to be the style these days- lots of different modes of play.

But I personally think that two different types of light is a bit much.

[DanDon]

2008 Games Hint #2
42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

2008 Games Hint #3
Vet hurdling FIRST tetra
Emphasis Mine

Games? More than one game? Multiple unique scoring methods throughout the whole game? Perhaps something a la FIRST Frenzy? (Please? :-P) Just a little something I noticed...might be nothing more than a typo, but who knows.

[Ross340]

I just can't see the IR becoming an important part to the game. Think of it from an audience's point of view. IR light is invisible. (given) unless they're going to display what's going on with the IR on say the large screen, the audience is going to be left... well... blind (pun intended) :)

I just try to envision what the game will be like from the audience's standpoint. You know, some family out one Saturday looking for something to do and happen to stumble across your local regional. They walk in and have absolutely no clue what is going on. The game needs to be visually appealing. Also, it needs to be easily caught onto for said wandering family. That doesn't mean that it's essential for them to know ins and outs of it, but generally be able to catch on in a short period of time.

Si or no?

[GBIT]

Emphasis Mine

Games? More than one game? Multiple unique scoring methods throughout the whole game? Just a little something I noticed...might be nothing more than a typo, but who knows.




o man that would be intense!!!!

[EricH]

The first-year students of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., graduated from plebe to third-class status on Thursday. All they have left to do is climb the Herndon Monument, a 21-foot, gray obelisk.You are soooo dead. 116--Dave's team--is from Herndon, VA!

[tseres]

do i taste another FIRST Frenzy?

[tseres]

vet hurdling? war vet...hurdling...throwing.

maybe we have to shoot tetras at square targets?

[steadfasttuna]

could 'Vet hurdling FIRST tetra' just be the password to decrypt the game manual... or is that too simple?:confused:

[bear24rw]

could 'Vet hurdling FIRST tetra' just be the password to decrypt the game manual... or is that too simple?:confused:

lol i dont think they would do that

[GBIT]

tooo simple it is a 128 bit password. last year it was ridiculously long

[colin340]

Vet= the robots will be cat powerd
hurdling= over some at center like 2003 but more like a wall
FIRST=For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology
tetra=pvc

[EricH]

tooo simple it is a 128 bit password. last year it was ridiculously long2005 and 2006 were ludicrously long as well.

[Leav]

my interpretation of the hint:
A whole new meaning to "human player" :D
-Leav

[GBIT]

2005 and 2006 were ludicrously long as well.

good point.

[Joe Matt]

I feel VERY comfortable saying that we won't see complex game objects like tubes or tetras due to the additional complexities of the IR sensor.

If I had to put money down based on what I've seen in the hints and clues, I'd say we have to score in intervals/periods/etc and score my guess the all too famous balls into goals of some sort, with the IR sensor somehow playing into the intervals/periods/etc.

[Scott Carpman]

My take on the tetra is that it means 4. We will be playing a game with 4 quarters, not in 4v4 structure.

[daltore]

How would it be practical for the game pieces to emit IR signals? The board has to be reprogrammed every time you turn off the robot unless you power the 5 volt board directly off of the 36 volt battery (even though voltage regulators are good, they still generally lack that ability). I also find it unlikely that they would do a repeat of a game from 4 years ago that some seniors might remember, it just wouldn't make sense.

I do find it interesting that they put both that message and decryption information in the same e-mail. May be something there. Maybe I'll try a couple of ciphers if I get time tonight, and I'll also look into encryption protocols.

Personally, I'm going with the Kitty Of Parts. We'll program a cat.

Also, FIRST designed the IR board, with 4 commands. Another coincidence is the terms "vet" and "navy" being mentioned so close together.

[geeknerd99]

Isn't there an obelisk around Copely Square? What shape is the top?

[EricH]

I do find it interesting that they put both that message and decryption information in the same e-mail. May be something there. Maybe I'll try a couple of ciphers if I get time tonight, and I'll also look into encryption protocols. The decryption code only works for the decryption test document. Last I checked, the encrypted versions weren't available.

[Tetraman]

Tetras are returning! My CD name will continue to mean something!

[joyflying]

4 teams to an allience?

[Scott Carpman]

4 teams to an allience?

Probably not, since the size of the field can't expand due to arena limitations. It could get a tiny bit bigger, but not enough to support 8 bots on one field. The traffic would be insane.

[DonRotolo]

So Paul Copioli is the game piece for 2008. Expect a sample Copioli clone to be shipped with your Kit of Parts. Be careful - they bite! That ties in well with Copioli Square in Boston...:D (He's nerdy maybe, but not a square..)


Vet: 2 definitions. 1. Short for veteran. 2. Short for veterinarian.

3rd definition: To subject to thorough examination or evaluation


How about it being a wordplay? For example, a smiling line for housing could be a toothy Res queue, or "to the rescue". (Lame, I know, but YOU come up with better!

Vet hurdles FIRST tetra
Doc over pipes
SEAL leaps point
Dave jumps piece
Andy bounds blue (red?)
JVN hops PVC
Kamen tops pyramid (*)
old vaults structure
pro clears fun
GP overcomes adversity



*Yes, I know a tetra is not a pyramid.

.

[DAN1504]

Maybe the hurdle is the traffic on the field

[Tetraman]

You know how Hurdles tip down, but in order to really make the points, you have to go over them without hitting them at all?

What if Tetras are going to have a specific side that is has to stand on in order to get the points?

[organman42]

accoding to dictionary.com:
hur·dle (noun)
1. a portable barrier over which contestants must leap in certain running races, usually a wooden frame with a hinged inner frame that swings down under impact to prevent injury to a runner who does not clear it.
2. hurdles, (used with a singular verb) a race in which contestants must leap over a number of such barriers placed at specific intervals around the track.

perhaps a wall in the center of the playing field that must be crossed to score?:confused:

[rhoads2234]

Vet can also mean practical so then Hurdling well according to dictionary.com it can mean to clear so maybe it is the most practical way of clearing the field of tetras?
:eek: FIRST Tetra- what was the fourth FIRST game ever? -:rolleyes: 1996 - Hexagon Havoc could someone explain this game?
and what are the games that are divisable by 4 (ex.1992,1996,2000,2004)?
1992 - Maze Craze
1996 - Hexagon Havoc
2000 - Co-opertition FIRST
2004 - FIRST Frenzy raising the bar

What do these games have in common? (last '07 was my rookie year so I did not play in any of them) What were the winning strategies?

Note: I answered some of my own questions but not all of them

[EricH]

:eek: FIRST Tetra- what was the fourth FIRST game ever? -:rolleyes: 1996 - Hexagon Havoc could someone explain this game?
and what are the games that are divisable by 4 (ex.1992,1996,2000,2004)?
1992 - Maze Craze
1996 - Hexagon Havoc
2000 - Co-opertition FIRST
2004 - FIRST Frenzy raising the bar

What do these games have in common? (last '07 was my rookie year so I did not play in any of them) What were the winning strategies? Very little, unless you count large central structures.

Oh, and that 1992 game would be Maize Craze. Played on a field with corn of some form all over. No more.

[whlspacedude]

Vet hurdling FIRST tetra
too EASY!!!!!!!!!

Vet Refers to Veteran

Veteran HP's Get to Throw Tetras!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lukevanoort]

Vet can also mean practical so then Hurdling well according to dictionary.com it can mean to clear so maybe it is the most practical way of clearing the field of tetras?
:eek: FIRST Tetra- what was the fourth FIRST game ever? -:rolleyes: 1996 - Hexagon Havoc could someone explain this game?
and what are the games that are divisable by 4 (ex.1992,1996,2000,2004)?
1992 - Maze Craze
1996 - Hexagon Havoc
2000 - Co-opertition FIRST
2004 - FIRST Frenzy raising the bar

What do these games have in common? (last '07 was my rookie year so I did not play in any of them) What were the winning strategies?

Note: I answered some of my own questions but not all of them
They all used balls.... Of course that doesn't really say much, IIRC, 1997, 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007 were the only years not to use balls, which means almost 70% of FRC games used balls as the game pieces.

[abeisgreat]

Ok heres my idea. http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/foosball/vhft/02vhft.html VHFT is an online foosball things So VHFT being Vet Hurdling FIRST Tetra makes me think foosball of some sort?

[rhoads2234]

Very little, unless you count large central structures.

Oh, and that 1992 game would be Maize Craze. Played on a field with corn of some form all over. No more.

Maybe there will be a large Hurdle-like scoring platform.... By hurdle like I mean that it can be knocked down if you run into it but it comes back up on its own...

there could be 2 central scoring stations (one for each alliance) that can be knocked over to spill the scoring element (ex.balls) on the ground one of the the teams in the alliance would need to protect their station....
Does that make sense?

[organman42]

The summer olympics took place these years in Barcelona Spain, Atlanta Georgia, Sydney Australia, Athens Greece, and later this year in Beijing, China.

They are also leap years. Does that mean something extra will be added to every n games?

[EricH]

Maybe there will be a large Hurdle-like scoring platform.... By hurdle like I mean that it can be knocked down if you run into it but it comes back up on its own...Hurdles don't come up on their own.

[JaneYoung]

I just try to envision what the game will be like from the audience's standpoint. You know, some family out one Saturday looking for something to do and happen to stumble across your local regional. They walk in and have absolutely no clue what is going on. The game needs to be visually appealing. Also, it needs to be easily caught onto for said wandering family. That doesn't mean that it's essential for them to know ins and outs of it, but generally be able to catch on in a short period of time.

Si or no?

I think the audience was underestimated by some last year when Rack 'n' Roll was unveiled. As we expand and grow and more audiences are reached, we are developing a fan base of people who are catching onto what FIRST is about. In my opinion, the GDC is very aware of what our expanding audience will find entertaining and exciting. At the least, they are hopeful. The audience will 'get it', I'll just bet. (I met some folks that 'happened by' in Atlanta last year and they thought the game was amazing.)

[rhoads2234]

Hurdles don't come up on their own.

The hurdles at my school do, they have wieghts in the back and if somthing runs into it it falls forward then back because of the wieghts.

I have never seen any hurdles that do something different.. what do the hurdles you think of do?

[EricH]

The hurdles at my school do, they have wieghts in the back and if somthing runs into it it falls forward then back because of the wieghts.

I have never seen any hurdles that do something different.. what do the hurdles you think of do?The ones used in the track meets I've been to don't. They just fall flat until someone comes and picks them up.

[rhoads2234]

The ones used in the track meets I've been to don't. They just fall flat until someone comes and picks them up.

oh... that's probably better because I have gotten hit by the hurdle in an upswing and it hurt! I had hit the hurdle with my front foot and it hit my back one in return:eek:

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Wow. 7 pages and NO ONE has yet to propose a better explanation of the word "vet" than that it has to do with veterans or animal doctors.

According to dictionary.com vet also means:

to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc.: An expert vetted the manuscript before publication.

This leads me to suspect that we have to 'check' which goal/game-piece/thingy needs to be scored in autonomous using the IR sensor.

I really like the whole thing about climbing an obelisk, perhaps a very short, squat three-sided obelisk ;)

[Frank Neuperger]

tetra =4
4 IR codes

I am thinking that the 4 IR codes may be used in one of the following ways:

A. identifying at a specific time when a specific Game piece has more value (or no value). When the broadcasted IR ID changes, you focus on the more valuable pieces.

B. identifying at a specific time when a specific scoring area has more value. When the broadcasted IR ID changes, you focus on the more valuable scoring area.

C. A possible autonomous scenario may use IR beacons as waypoints or azimuth references in navigation but more likely (and easier) a master IR beacon would trigger a behavior change in all of the bots on the field. i.e. an autonomous period with 2 or more distinct phases. Perhaps the IR triggers a change in what color target lamp the bot should go for ( with cmucam). This could give 2 or more scoring opportunities during autonomous.

===================
Hurdles (and stock market) suggests some jagged terrain challenge.

[JaneYoung]

The hurdles at my school do, they have wieghts in the back and if somthing runs into it it falls forward then back because of the wieghts.

I have never seen any hurdles that do something different.. what do the hurdles you think of do?

I looked up 'vetted' -
vetted:

1. To make a curvet; to leap; to bound. `
2. To leap and frisk; to frolic.

taken from Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary.

[Jim E]

Another stab at word meanings:

VET:

3.to appraise, verify, or check for accuracy, authenticity, validity, etc.:
An expert vetted the manuscript before publication.

Hurdling-verb:

something immaterial that stands in the way and must be circumvented or surmounted;
"lack of imagination is an obstacle to one's advancement"

FIRST:

www.usfirst.org

tetra:(acronym)

Terrestrial Trunked Radio (TETRA) is an open digital trunked radio standard for professional mobile radio users.
TETRA is defined by the European... Motorola (FIRST sponsor) is a big player in this market.

FIRST is using TETRA for their radio communications this year. Maybe Motorola is supplying the radios.

The IR board will be the obstacle to overcome to score points.

The GPS? coordinates may be something off the wall to throw us off, or they may be camera settings for a new color of target.

My 2 cents.:eek:

[organman42]

perhaps we have to use the IR to triagulate our position in autonomous, or to make scoring easier during the driver period. :confused:

[JimWright949]

I was starting to clean out my garage during the break. I got to all of the tetra peices and thought, 'I might as well keep these because FIRST might re-use them again.'

Now I see this and I am glad I did not recycle all of them.

-Jim

[1086VEX]

ha^ i have one in my attic...may need to pull it out :yikes:

[Bcliff358]

i don't know if someone already stated this but "vet" could mean Veterans stadium in Philadelphia which is completely circular.

[EricH]

i don't know if someone already stated this but "vet" could mean Veterans stadium in Philadelphia which is completely circular.
Possibly. The capitalization might make that more likely.

Side note: time to 100 posts: 3 hours and a quarter. Ouch.

[tseres]

it would be hard to triangulate with that ir sensor...nearly impossible for FIRST...it would essentially be like finding GPS coordinates on the field with 4 different points...long story short, it's wayyyy too complex for FIRST...way too many interrupys and floating-point math...

i still say another FIRST frenzy....the ir from 04, the tetra from 05, the vet( war veteran, shooting) from 06, and maybe some large square structure that we have to shoot into targets in the middle (the coordinates hint, 07 game)

[Bill Moore]

Vet hurdling FIRST tetra

This clue could indicate an end game autonomous period. In this case, "Vet" would indicate a robot that has completed gameplay, trying to overcome obstacles (hurdling), to get to one of four designated locations (tetra) on the field. The exact locations would somehow be revealed after joystick control has completed.

Yay GDC!! We FINALLY get end game autonomous!

[1086VEX]

on the note of tetra... did anyone ever try putting casters on to the tall goal??thats right triple plays gone mobile!! oooh the possibilities:rolleyes:

[Jake177]

The autonomous mode comprised finding the green panel with the camera and placing the tetra on a goal tower, along with some easier but less lucrative functions. The camera/plywood combination was a complete flop, and most teams didn't bother mounting the camera on their 'bot.

I think the clue means that the GDC has revisited this "flop" of an autonomous mode. The game will have randomly positioned pieces for robots to locate and score during autonomous mode, like the vision tetras from Triple Play. This will give the veteran teams another chance to overcome (hurdle) what they couldn't do in 2005 (score the visions tetra)

[Bill Moore]

i don't know if someone already stated this but "vet" could mean Veterans stadium in Philadelphia which is completely circular.

Actually, Veterans Stadium no longer exists. It was demolished a couple years ago.

[organman42]

I think the clue means that the GDC has revisited this "flop" of an autonomous mode. The game will have randomly positioned pieces for robots to locate and score during autonomous mode, like the vision tetras from Triple Play. This will give the veteran teams another chance to overcome (hurdle) what they couldn't do in 2005 (score the visions tetra)

How often has the GDC reused games, or major game elements, like the tetra?

[Jonathan Norris]

How often has the GDC reused games, or major game elements, like the tetra?

Well last year's tubes were very similar (almost the same) to torroids used back in the late 90's. Balls have been used numerous times.

[Taylor]

too EASY!!!!!!!!!

Vet Refers to Veteran

Veteran HP's Get to Throw Tetras!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While Will was being a bit flippant, I think it does deserve some scrutiny - could this hint in fact be regarding the human players? We've been techno-athletes for a while; this game may bring about a more physically athletic aspect of the HP.

Thoughts on an end-game autonomous: While a great challenge, I think it would be too much of a hazard for teams. With a game featuring an autonomous at the start, if a team wishes not to compete, the robot can stay stationary and (relatively) out of harm's way. With the random (and sometimes intertwined) configurations, positions, and orientations robots have when they come to rest, I would think damage to the bots could be a large issue.

Perhaps the field could be split in two parts - a teleoperated area and an autonomous area, divided by an obstacle. Once robots cross the threshold, their radios are disabled and they must navigate on their own until they exit.

One more thought considering 4v4 or 2v2v2v2 and space requirements: There's no rule in FIRST that says the dimensions must be 38" X 28" X 72" - we learned this in 07 with the height/weight requirements. Smaller robots would yield more per game without too much in the way of traffic hazards (especially with traffic cones :yikes: ), assuming the field is largely uncluttered with elements a la Rack n Roll.

[Jake177]

How often has the GDC reused games, or major game elements, like the tetra?

The GDC has never reused an entire game. 2004 was a mash up of elements from several past games:
Mobile goals: Similar to those used in 2002
Stationary goals: Similar to the mobile goals used in 2001
Hang Bar: An end-game element from 2000

[geeknerd99]

What if FIRST was not capitalized as an acronym, but instead was used as emphasis?

So that means Vet (whatever that is) has to get around the leading tetra-thing-whatever as opposed to slamming into it or something?

[Scott L.]

TETRA = TErrestrial TRunked RAdio
FIRST = Flexible Infrared Search & Track
:D

[Jonathan Ryan]

Check out the ANAGRAM possibilities???

Farsighted Tilt Turn Rev

Divergent Raft Rush Tilt

Arthritis Drug Left Vent


Who knows????????

[lukevanoort]

on the note of tetra... did anyone ever try putting casters on to the tall goal??thats right triple plays gone mobile!! oooh the possibilities:rolleyes:
That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, you couldn't stack very high unless you either held the goal very securely stationary, held the stack securely (like the good stackers in 2003), or you could put a detachable 'cap' on top (like in 97). Maybe zones to push the goals into too? Triple Play + Toroid Terror + Stack Attack + Zone Zeal = pretty neat in my opinion.

[1086VEX]

thats what im saying!! it would be sweet!!! mybe add a se-saw in there some where and we got ourselves a game!!!:D

[organman42]

thats what im saying!! it would be sweet!!! mybe add a se-saw in there some where and we got ourselves a game!!!:D

And then a pool of water or an ice sheet, just to make it even more fun!:D :D

[1086VEX]

haha^ how about just play in a pool, put the goal on an inner tube, and make some boat bots!

[MiniNerd24]

Okay, let me know if this has been thought of already. (haven't read all the posts) What if 'Vet' was in another language (actually I don't think they'd do that so close to the Kickoff) or maybe the whole army meaning of 'Vet' means war...war means guns...Robotic Nerd gun anyone?:D (Reminds me of Aim High)

[lukevanoort]

Robotic Nerd gun anyone?:D (Reminds me of Aim High)
I think you mean Nerf gun... a nerd gun would be when the programmer sticks their head into the Aim High shooter to watch their control loop in action up close...

[AndyB]

Could be something like:

Hurdling implies to me that we are jumping or skipping a task. So if veteran teams were to skip triple play, the next game would have been Aim High. I don't have a clue as to what the vets have to do with anything but that was my interpretation. Or what was the 5th game. Skipping the 4th game would mean the 5th game would be next.

5th game was hexagon havoc. Vet hurdling FIRST tetra. The fourth game was ramp n roll. Vets hurdling ramp n roll. Veterans skipping ramp n roll. Veterans jumping over ramp n roll... jumping off of a ramp... any ideas? just some thoughts.

Hurdling could be worded as a redo. What if they are combining FIRST's first four games... That would be Maize Craze, Rug Race, Tower Power, and Ramp n Roll. I don't even know where to start with that one. I know nothing about any game before 01.

[JaneYoung]

tetra - four groups

Vet hurdling FIRST tetra -

First 4 games?

http://www.usfirst.org/who/content.aspx?id=880#frc_history

[MiniNerd24]

I think you mean Nerf gun... a nerd gun would be when the programmer sticks their head into the Aim High shooter to watch their control loop in action up close...

oops thanks I was typing pretty fast *snort**lol* yeah that would be a Nerd gun wouldn't it?:)

[IndySam]

Hurdles don't come up on their own.

These guys do

http://fireloupiniella.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/weeble.jpg

[nukelear1991]

*Maybe it means veteran teams/players have to "get over" (stop whining about) the tetra game and figure out another solution.

*Maybe a robot has to be lifted over another one, think of the hurdling action

* Leap frog with Tetras

*Maybe it means the game will be like the one after the tetra game so something like aim high


Eh just thought my thoughts could help :D

[jerry w]

here is what i have so far from the anagram

1. Tilt Further drive Angst :mad:

2. Tight Turn Reveals Drift :eek:

3 .Turn left drive Straight :D

the third one implies a maze, where one always goes either left or straight.

jerry w

[hipsterjr]

This is what wiki says about VET
To vet was originally a horse-racing term, referring to the requirement that a horse be checked for health and soundness by a veterinarian before being allowed to race. Thus, it has taken the general meaning "to check"

I think that the IR senors will be used to "vet" a robot before it can either throw, or climb some where.

The "FIRST tetra," I think refers to alliances of three or a return to triangles as a game piece and/ or goal.

[Graham Donaldson]

You know, I really think somethings wrong with us when we have 130 replies in 5 and a quarter hours...since that's a rate of a post every 2.5 minutes...we're only kinda nuts, eh?

Speaking of which, since I have a Mac, does anyone know how to decrypt encrypted files in Preview? Particularly when Preview says that they're not encrypted? -:confused:

[MiniNerd24]

check out the verb definition of vet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vet

[Laaba 80]

Emphasis Mine

Games? More than one game? Multiple unique scoring methods throughout the whole game? Perhaps something a la FIRST Frenzy? (Please? :-P) Just a little something I noticed...might be nothing more than a typo, but who knows.

I like this idea and think you are on to something. I think it is more than just a typo. I dont remember the exact words, but Dave said something along the lines of They have the answers right in front of them, but dont believe it because it doesnt fir with their ideas. Not a direct quote, sorry I dont remember where I saw it. the s in gameS hint # 2 and 3 has gone unnoticed until this post, and could be a huge part. In case you didnt notice the IR sensor just says Game Hint #1, no S after game. :ahh: This may imply that the IR sensor will be used at all times during the game, while you need to choose game to play. Or the IR sensor may tell you what game to play, so you must have robots that can manipulate different shapes, or to do different things with the same shapes

Edit: Sorry the quote I wanted didnt copy. what DanDon noticed was that when you go to the decrypted hints. It says
Games hint #2 and Games hint #3.
notice the S in games

[hallk]

The ones used in the track meets I've been to don't. They just fall flat until someone comes and picks them up.

Hurdles will usually fall flat and stay there if hit hard enough. However, if you just bump the hurdle it will most likely return to its upright position. When this happens the hurdle has almost a teetor-totter effort. Maybe this has something to do with the counter weights or ramp systems that were mentioned before.

[bear24rw]

You know, I really think somethings wrong with us when we have 130 replies in 5 and a quarter hours...since that's a rate of a post every 2.5 minutes...we're only kinda nuts, eh?

Speaking of which, since I have a Mac, does anyone know how to decrypt encrypted files in Preview? Particularly when Preview says that they're not encrypted? -:confused:

Im pretty sure you can get acrobat reader for mac
try this
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2_allversions.html

[DMetalKong]

The first thing that strikes me is the fact that the word 'vet' ("to vet was originally a horse-racing term") and hurdling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdling_%28horse_race%29) and tetras (http://www.tetratrails.com/) are related through horses, what this means I have no idea. The second thing is that 'vetting' could relate to the pseudo-hint about stocks, jello, and k'nex: "Vetting can refer to the process of analyzing stocks, bonds, and any other securities and financial instruments before committing money." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetting

[Graham Donaldson]

Im pretty sure you can get acrobat reader for mac
try this
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2_allversions.html

Unfortunately, it's a Mac that the school gives out and I can't install anything. If you know any way to decrypt files in Preview, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks anyways though.

[Rohith Surampudi]

well after saying i wouldnt get involved in this madness, here we go

Copley square
....................... Finish line of the Boston Marathon (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=666931&postcount=652) courtesy of Alex Burman
....................... Tortoise and the Hare statues
....................... The track on the top of the building near hint 2
....................... Vet is a horse racing term of some sort... look it up, im too lazy to
.......................IR sensors are used in Ski races and things of that nature



Ladies and Gentlemen, we're off to the races...

[Conor Ryan]

well after saying i wouldnt get involved in this madness, here we go

Copley square
....................... Finish line of the Boston Marathon (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=666931&postcount=652) courtesy of Alex Burman
....................... Tortoise and the Hare statues
....................... The track on the top of the building near hint 2
....................... Vet is a horse racing term of some sort... look it up, im too lazy to
.......................IR sensors are used in Ski races and things of that nature



Ladies and Gentlemen, we're off to the races...
That's pretty comprehensive, but remember we have an IR camera, we do all of that in Autonomous. Then we start the real games. (but Autonomous will be emphasized more than ever before, at least, if the camera is easy as they say it is to program)

[Big Kid]

Hey people don't you think it is werid that in the two thousand and four FIRSTthe robots a had to lift itself up on to a hurdle like object. Where the vet comes in im not sure yet.

[Scott Carpman]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we're off to the races...

I wouldn't bet on it. Speed will lead to collisions, which will increase the overall amount of disabeld bots across the board. I don't think the GRC would have us racing just yet.

[Jonathan Norris]

Unfortunately, it's a Mac that the school gives out and I can't install anything. If you know any way to decrypt files in Preview, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks anyways though.

Depending on how old it is (seeing that its from your school it could be a bit outdated), preview will just show the PDF blanked out by a red background and a text box to input the decryption key... It works fine for me.

[Joe Matt]

I wouldn't bet on it. Speed will lead to collisions, which will increase the overall amount of disabeld bots across the board. I don't think the GRC would have us racing just yet.

Care to explain 2001 to me then? Yeah...

[AndyB]

Care to explain 2001 to me then? Yeah...

Or 2002, remember Beatty getting smashed? or 2003, the hellish battle for the middle... 06 had a bit of shoving as well...

[Jonathan Norris]

Or 2002, remember Beatty getting smashed? or 2003, the hellish battle for the middle... 06 had a bit of shoving as well...

nothing wrong with a little robot-robot action.... now only if they would let us have wedges back :p

(I can dream can't I??)

[Joe Matt]

Or 2002, remember Beatty getting smashed? or 2003, the hellish battle for the middle... 06 had a bit of shoving as well...

I was saying the racing bit, but yeah, that works too!

[AndyB]

I was saying the racing bit, but yeah, that works too!

The definition of end game is pretty much a race. Especially in 03, 05, 06, and 07

[Turtlecoach]

Bet we see tetra's, squares & circles(balls) out on the field. IR signals will tell us which where they have to go. Need to think of designs for multiple different objects .........agggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

[Justin Montois]

Interesting Anagrams keeping FIRST together.....

First Dangle Rivet(Tightly Held) Truth

First Granted Evil Truth (Water Game)

First Advent Ruler Tight

First Tundra Lever Tight

First Relevant Dig Truth

First Gauntlet Third Rev

A divergent truth flirts

This Link is REALLY cool, The Anagram Hall Of Fame (http://wordsmith.org/anagram/hof.html)

[Ian Curtis]

In an earlier thread, people were talking about temporary IR walls. Look at the Middle English definition for hurdle... :yikes:

Middle English hurdel, portable panel for temporary fences

[MaxS]

Maybe we can divine this year's competition by looking at hints of past years:
2005: "While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me.'"


Triple Play involved stacking giant tetrahedrons in a game of tic-tac-toe. I wasn't involved back then, so I don't really know that much.

2006:
"five 'bots tangling with pasta
a game piece obsessed with a shovel's show
and seeing Montana's green heights"


Aim High involved launching foam balls (meatballs?) at targets, represented with green lights ("Montana's green heights"). The shovel could refer either to a robot shoving balls into the lower goals or to ball-collection device.

2007:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img/08d/08dade1a39056f8e56dd660d953f3607_l.jpg
The game involved placing inflatable tubes on long "spider-legs," each of which ended with one of the pictured circles representing the column.

2008:
Hint #1: An IR reciever
Hint #2: Three numbers (see discussion here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60297))
Hint #3: "Vet hurdling FIRST tetra"

Anyone see a pattern here?

[keen101]

I think clue number two is a metaphor for something to do with navigation.


So I think we will have something with three sides (v-e-t) three letter word. numbers. (tetra) tree sided object. Three numbers (clue #2)


...maybe throw a three sided object over hurdles... while using navigation.....

[waialua359]

In 2006, I thought autonomous was worth too much. The outcome of matches could be determined a lot from it, especially if there was a great disparity between teams.
2007 was much better in being important, but not letting teams get blown away in the beginning.
2005 was worthless during autonomous mode in trying to get the vision tetras which very little no. of teams could do and had very little effect towards the outcome of matches. I went to a regional where I didnt see it scored at all for the entire weekend.

I'd bet that autonomous would be similar to that of 2007 last year. Just right.
I'd also bet that some kind of bonus scoring will happen at the end of matches which could affect outcomes of matches much like 2007 again.
Every year had a new twist. 2007 had robots stacking on each other (which was never done before). I hope to see one day where the human player has as much as an important role as the drivers of the robot. That would be a twist I think many have not considered.

And finally, I dont think the game hints in the past were of much use. Using 2006 and 07 as examples, it did very little to help teams get a headstart in brainstorming ideas ahead of build season leading to building a better robot. Thus I ask, "Should game hints be more easily solved and helpful for teams prior to build season?" Only time will tell this 2008 season.
We look at the clues as amusement purposes only. :D :D :D

[mackfix]

I dont know if this has been established, but a tetra is also a fish. If you search "tetra" in google images you will find a bunch of pictures of fish

[GaryVoshol]

150 replies, and I'm surprised no one has come up with this. The Vet takes care of the gerbils between matches, of course.

Seriously, whoever noticed the wording "Games Hint" may be on to something. That corresponds with Dave's "For the two" signature.

Edit - where did "Games Hint" appear? On the FIRST site (which only has #2 up) it says "Game".

[Taylor]

I dont know if this has been established, but a tetra is also a fish. If you search "tetra" in google images you will find a bunch of pictures of fish

What, like a RED HERRING?

-brainstorm-

Given the rather obtuse nature of past hints (a shovel's show = Just Shoot Me = firing poof balls), and realizing words do have different meanings, the third hint could very easily be interpreted as "vet" (whatever that is) hurdling (or overcoming) FIRST tetra (or well-placed GDC red herrings). Cut through the garbage, look at the facts, and it's as plain as the nose on your knee.

[Peter Matteson]

Steeple chase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeple_chase

:)
Pete

[meaubry]

What does a Vet have that a Non-Vet doesn't have? I think it means "Experience".

Experience using 4 IR signals to race (boston marathon & hurdling references) to a specific location (latitude-longitude clue) and face a specific direction (bearing) in order to "fish for" (tetra, plus - stock up on enough fish and kite shaped fish references from Dave L.) a specific color or shaped game piece - then race & deposit it (score points) before recieving (via 4 code IR) the next color needed - start the process over again. The team with the most correct color/shaped fish wins.

Using magnetic fish (game pieces) is as close to involving water - without actually involving water, as you can get! Brilliant!

Sounds like alot of fun doesn't it?

Mike

[Greg Needel]

I also am saying it is an anagram. I applied some filters to the anagram solver to remove words like FIRST, and tetra because assuming we are correct about it being an anagram in the first place those words won't be in it. I was able to cut the number of possible solutions down quite a bit but the one that jumped out at me was this....


Tilt Adverts Furthering


so basically they are saying that either there will be a tilting ramp on the field 2001ish or you should build your robots with a low cg because you will have to climb something and your robot tipping over will prevent you from doing wellBesides I can't be wrong ;-) (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=543915&postcount=116)

[ALIBI]

GO FISH! We will finally get a water game. The fish will be various sizes and colors of tetra with different point values. You will have various obstacles to get past or more adventagous places to fish from where only one robot can be at a time. In order to catch a fish you must first have bait, which will be supplied by the human player or you can stock up on during auton and/or get to the best fishing hole. Bait can be passed between alliance partners as well as the catch. You will probably have some kind of limit on the number of tetra you can catch before you can catch any more so that you would have to leave the fishing hole and unload. You will have two places to put your catch in order for it to be counted. One will be a safe place that is further away (home zone) where your catch can not be taken away by the other alliance and one that will be close where the other alliance can steal your catch. Maybe you will need to FIRST get a license to fish, which could count towards points and be done during auton so that you can start to fish right away during teleopperated instead of getting licensed. I you catch a low point tetra you would more than likely put in in the hopper where the other alliance could steal it, if you catch a high point value tetra, you would want to place it where it is safe. The hopper could also be on your robot, but will only count if you get back to your home zone. These are just ramblings and could have many other twist. My two cents...we are going fishing!

[Culvan Van Li]

We're so close... Vet = Vetran, Hurdle = Jumps, Tetra is a kind of fish...

I think they're saying we jumped the shark...

In all seriousness though the number 4 is showing up with remarkable regularity. The IR board has 4 programmable outputs. The coordinates pointed to Copley Square. Tetra means 4 (as in four sided polyhedron.) DanDon also pointed out that they used the word gameS (plural) in the clues. I'm wondering if there will be different objectives and the IR board will let the teams know which one is the game at the time. The design of the IR board and the other references to 4 would imply there will be 4 different objectives.

Andy

[rhoads2234]

That's pretty comprehensive, but remember we have an IR camera, we do all of that in Autonomous. Then we start the real games. (but Autonomous will be emphasized more than ever before, at least, if the camera is easy as they say it is to program)

It is not an IR camera, it gives back digital inputs - in other words it tells us that a signal is present not how strong or where.

[Tetraman]

I'm going to have to agree with the only statement that has made sense this entire thread:

We are going to re-do the autonomous mode from Tripple Play.

[Stephen Cross]

My brother looked up were the word vet came from. Looking on wikipedia he got:

1. As a noun:-
* An abbreviation for veterinarian or veterinary surgeon, that is, an animal doctor.
* An abbreviation for military veteran in the United States and Canada.
* A nickname for Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia.
* A variant of the Hebrew letter beth (ב).

2. As a verb:-

* to vet was originally a horse-racing term, referring to the requirement that a horse be checked for health and soundness by a veterinarian before being allowed to race. Thus, it has taken the general meaning "to check": "The attorney vetted the documents before using them to make his case"; "The presidential nominee vetted prospected vice-presidential candidates on his short list." See Vetting.

Looking at the vetting link gets:

Broadly, vetting is a process of examination and evaluation. Specifically, vetting often refers to performing a background check on someone before offering them employment. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.

Vetting is also a reference to software development. The process of vetting code refers to ensuring a build of software meets a set of very high level requirements before the build is passed to the quality assurance environment for further testing.

Maybe this means that we will have to do more with coding this year. Which could mean that they are changing the autonomous mode length, or making autonomous mode more complex.

[Kevin Thorp]

The most well known "veterinarian" was Dr. Doolittle. And Jimmy Doolittle was a famous veteran - a WWII bomber squadron leader who took off from a carrier (over water). A tetra is a tropical fish (once again the veterinarian reference).

We'll have to build flying robots that jump over hurdles to bomb mechanical fish!

[Stephen Cross]

what if on the field there are several scoring boxes with colored lights above them, and our robots have to throw a tetra into the correct box when the same colored light is on.

[organman42]

Broadly, vetting is a process of examination and evaluation. Specifically, vetting often refers to performing a background check on someone before offering them employment. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.



Mabye we are supposed to vet Dave and the GDC??:D

[tseres]

FIRST FRENZY!!!!!!

...anyways about my previous post on determining field position with ir, it could be possible with the 4 inputs, as well as serial communication via the ir transmitters,plus extremely precise timing from the transmitters, also the timing would have to be slowed down...light would travel way too fast to determine position from the field location...GPS, uses the distances from 11 000km up in space...but nonetheless it could be possible...

either that or during auton the ir will transmit whether we have to pick up tetras, cubes, or balls and score them in a giant bin in the middle of the arena.

[David Brinza]

Could we be looking at a four-vs-four game? :ahh:

The fourth anniversary of the two rovers on Mars, the four IR channels, the "tetra" reference and the quad of Copley Square. "Four's gone wild!!"

This would be good for the regionals that have 60 or more teams...though there are a few regionals (Detroit, Pittsburgh) that have only 32 - 34 teams registered.

As the number of teams in FIRST grows, you might eventually expect to see this - maybe this is the year!

[Drwurm]

U guyz r sheeple. I hav figured it out. Think about it. 4 is apearing evrywhere.
And hurdling is alot liek jumping or bouncing.
And what do vets do? They youthenise puppies.

Thats right. The GDC has gone to far. This years game will be a race to youthenise 4 cute bouncing puppies.

Ihav allready contacted PETA and they will be takeing action.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Speaking of which, since I have a Mac, does anyone know how to decrypt encrypted files in Preview? Particularly when Preview says that they're not encrypted? -:confused:I think it's a problem on FIRST's end. Their webpage says they're using RC4 encryption, but Adobe tells me it's actually AES which isn't supported by some versions of Preview, nor Ghostscript, nor most linux viewers. So if the official documents are encrypted the same as this one, there's going to be some people that won't be able to easily view them. I'll at least be annoyed since I'll have to click through acrobat 5 times to save each file unencrypted instead of running a batch file through ghostscript.

[RedHeadRobotics]

What if vet means like a veteran, like a vet team, instead of a veterinarian? That totally could change what the clue means:ahh:

[Joe Matt]

Maybe we can divine this year's competition by looking at hints of past years:

Triple Play involved stacking giant tetrahedrons in a game of tic-tac-toe. I wasn't involved back then, so I don't really know that much.



Aim High involved launching foam balls (meatballs?) at targets, represented with green lights ("Montana's green heights"). The shovel could refer either to a robot shoving balls into the lower goals or to ball-collection device.

Triple play's clue explained: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=314739&postcount=582

Aim High you kinda got untill the shovel's show part then you kinda hit yourself in your face. Shoves Show. Think a little. What kinds of shoves? Spade perhaps? Isn't there an actor named David Spade? David Spade's Show.... which was.... Just Shoot Me. :-P

[EricH]

The most well known "veterinarian" was Dr. Doolittle. And Jimmy Doolittle was a famous veteran - a WWII bomber squadron leader who took off from a carrier (over water). A tetra is a tropical fish (once again the veterinarian reference).

We'll have to build flying robots that jump over hurdles to bomb mechanical fish!Doolittle didn't bomb water or fish--he and his squadron bombed Tokyo, then tried to make it to China. Then they started hitting the water as they ran out of fuel. I'm not sure what Doolittle did after that.

[robogeek753]

Even though there is only two days left :D and we won't ever know until kickoff :mad: I figure I'll throw my guess into the mix.

1. At either end of the field there will be a "field goal" like setup with a net to catch balls shot into it by robots (a la Aim High)

--RATIONALE--

Clue #2, The coordinates point to copley squeare, the bearing between two obelisks (the field goal posts) and then to the Globe Cafe

2. At each corner of the field there will be a bin for depositing square blocks (possilbly shaped like K'NEX bricks).

--RATIONALE--

Clue #2 again, Copley Square and the other numerous references to other games involving boxes, too numerous to list (Stack Attack etc.)

3. An end game autonomous that has 3, possibly 4 of the center goals from Triple Play and IR emitters on each one. At the end of teleoperated , the IR of the goal that will actually count will start emmitting (tetra could be picked up prior to endgame) and if a robot gets the tetra on that goal, major bonus points.

--RATIONALE--

Clue #1, well we have to use that IR board for something, just because it has four channels doesn't mean we use them all.
Clue #3, I agree that it could mean vet teams having to finally beat the triple play challenge (man I hated that game) and I also like the idea of a single "bonus" tetra.

4. 2v2 play again

--RATIONALE--

Dave's signature, for the two, this season is for you. I believe this could refer to the past games where it was 2v2 play.

5. Periods in which certain game pieces can be scored will be indicated by solid or flashing red/blue lights (Aim High only one team can score periods maybe?).

--RATIONALE--

Clue 2 Hancock Tower reference.


99.9% chance I'm totally wrong, .01% chance that any part(s) is right. Guess we'll know on Saturday. (must... go... to... sleep.. but.... too... excited..)

[rhoads2234]

Even though there is only two days left :D and we won't ever know until kickoff ...
99.9% chance I'm totally wrong, .01% chance that any part(s) is right. Guess we'll know on Saturday. (must... go... to... sleep.. but.... too... excited..)

I have to agree. We won't know but it is to tempting to think we might know before the game is released to ignore the hints!:ahh:

[Elgin Clock]

I'm going to combine some hints here, and take a random guess.

Clue 3:
Vet hurdled FIRST tetra:

Kevin Watson is a Veteran FIRSTer. (And hopefully he's also a good sport in case the following predictions I state here are way off. lol :yikes: )

A hurdle is a problem one can overcome, and make out better in the end because of it.

A FIRST tetra kinda looks like an ominous shark fin peering above the playing field's surface.


Clue 2:

Copley Square, leads to:
John Singleton Copley.

He was the artist for (among other things) a painting called Watson & The Shark.
It was a scene about a boy swimming in a harbor, and who suffered multiple attacks by a single shark. The crew from the boat he was serving on fought off the shark, & even though he was injured whtn the shark took off his leg, he made a full recovery and overcame adversity to lead a full life as a mayor among other things.

One cool fact about sharks is that they are mildly homeothermic, or able to maintain their body temperature above the surrounding environment, which leads right into the characteristic of Clue 1.


Clue 1: IR Sensor basically equals a Heat sensor.



Ok... so... to tie all these things together, I'm guessing there will be an element on the field (or all over the field for that matter to make things even harder) in the shape of a shark fin, or beacon (or even a modified tetra shape) which has a heat source inside, or an IR signal of some kind to avoid while driving around the field to accomplish a task.

What that task is, I'm not sure yet. I working on that theory still.


The whole 3 clue thing has me a little excited, I'm not gonna lie. :D


Clue 1 is a new sensor to be used in some way which is just cool. I'm leaning towards the fact it will go on the robot for above reasons.
(btw, IR sensor first used in FIRST competitions in 2004 - remember that, it's important.)

Clue 2 is a mention of Copley which leads to a Singleton (a game element from 2007)

Clue 3 is blatantly referencing a FIRST tetra which was a game element in 2003.


So.. if we add those numbers of the years in the clues, and divide by the number of clues, we have another link to sharks.

(2004+2003+2007)/3 =
6014 / 3 =
2004.6

Year 2004 was named FIRST Frenzy: Raising The Bar.


Sharks are usually connected with the word Frenzy when they are very active in the water. So... to enlighten all the Water Game proponents... I'd just like to welcome 2008's game:

FIRST Frenzy: Sink Or Swim*. :D




*Or something just as wacky as that, but with the return of the FIRST Frenzy part of the name at least.

[joshsmithers]

Experience using 4 IR signals to race (boston marathon & hurdling references) to a specific location (latitude-longitude clue) and face a specific direction (bearing) in order to "fish for" (tetra, plus - stock up on enough fish and kite shaped fish references from Dave L.) a specific color or shaped game piece - then race & deposit it (score points) before recieving (via 4 code IR) the next color needed - start the process over again. The team with the most correct color/shaped fish wins.

Using magnetic fish (game pieces) is as close to involving water - without actually involving water, as you can get! Brilliant!

Sounds like alot of fun doesn't it?

Mike

Wow, this is my favorite idea so far. Everything fits. My only problem is that I couldn't see the use of magnetic game pieces.

Also, with all this "the number 4" talk, I wonder if we'll get a fourth game hint by saturday.

[organman42]

Also, with all this "the number 4" talk, I wonder if we'll get a fourth game hint by saturday.

Yeah, 5 minutes before the video feed starts, just to drive everyone even more crazy.:D :yikes:

[Elgin Clock]

Yeah, 5 minutes before the video feed starts, just to drive everyone even more crazy.:D :yikes:

No, I'm sure it will be more likely it will be 5 minutes after the video feed starts to make everyone watching go crazy, not just us folks at the Kickoff in New Hampshire.

[Vince lau]

encrypted sections of the 2008 FRC Manual have been posted on the FIRST site

[meaubry]

"My only problem is that I couldn't see the use of magnetic game pieces" -

joshsmithers - the year tetras were the game pieces, FIRST used magnets strong enough to hold them up inside the end giant scoring tetras - at the start of the match.

What if they had these strong little magnets attached to the top of the "fish" - such that when a team hung their hook (opposing magnet) in the fishing hole/zone, the 2 magnets would be attracted and attach themselves together - allowing the team to "reel in" their catch!

Anyways, that's how I envision being able to "catch" fish in the game that I described. Maybe we have to make "floppie fish" - anyone remember "floppies"!

Mike

[alicen]

"My only problem is that I couldn't see the use of magnetic game pieces" -

joshsmithers - the year tetras were the game pieces, FIRST used magnets strong enough to hold them up inside the end giant scoring tetras - at the start of the match.

What if they had these strong little magnets attached to the top of the "fish" - such that when a team hung their hook (opposing magnet) in the fishing hole/zone, the 2 magnets would be attracted and attach themselves together - allowing the team to "reel in" their catch!

Anyways, that's how I envision being able to "catch" fish in the game that I described.

Mike


then the question becomes: how do you get the fish off? the fish would have a much sleeker shape, and so making it difficult to get them off the strong magnet that you've proposed without some form of outside help

[Gary Dillard]

Doing a google search on Dave Lavery tetra, in addition to all the FIRST stuff I found this:

"... an aquatic toxicologist at Tetra Tech Inc., an environmental consulting ... in the Antarctic," said Dave Lavery, NASA's telerobotics program manager. ..."

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..........

[joshsmithers]

What if they had these strong little magnets attached to the top of the "fish" - such that when a team hung their hook (opposing magnet) in the fishing hole/zone, the 2 magnets would be attracted and attach themselves together - allowing the team to "reel in" their catch!

Anyways, that's how I envision being able to "catch" fish in the game that I described. Maybe we have to make "floppie fish" - anyone remember "floppies"!

Mike
well, using quite a good bit of many types of metals on the robots, the fish would often stick to the robot in undesirable places, get stuck in the drivetrains, and maybe/possibly cause radio problems. it is an interesting concept and game idea however, and is a realistic possibility.

then the question becomes: how do you get the fish off? the fish would have a much sleeker shape, and so making it difficult to get them off the strong magnet that you've proposed without some form of outside help
that would be the challenge, then, wouldn't it?;)

[ALIBI]

then the question becomes: how do you get the fish off? the fish would have a much sleeker shape, and so making it difficult to get them off the strong magnet that you've proposed without some form of outside help


Sounds like something a human player could do?


Magnet idea aside, snaging (hurdling, a snag is a hurdle) fish (tetra) could be released mechanically. Usually when one goes fishing, they are blindly looking for fish. Could the fish be in a big pond (obviously dry) in the middle of the field with raised platforms around it? That would mean that we would have to pick up something lower than the base of the robot, which I believe has never been done before and catching the fish would be random.

[MiniNerd24]

Ok off topic here. I read the hint every way that I could and it still didn't make sense.:( But, I had one of my friends read it (with the whole WTF kind of voice)
and it sounded like a newspaper clipping. I don't know if this helps but there you go.

[DMetalKong]

I think it's a problem on FIRST's end. Their webpage says they're using RC4 encryption, but Adobe tells me it's actually AES which isn't supported by some versions of Preview, nor Ghostscript, nor most linux viewers. So if the official documents are encrypted the same as this one, there's going to be some people that won't be able to easily view them. I'll at least be annoyed since I'll have to click through acrobat 5 times to save each file unencrypted instead of running a batch file through ghostscript.

If it truly is AES instead of RC4, could the RC4 be another part of the hint? Another name for it is ARCFOUR, maybe there are four arcs on the field that we have to race around :yikes:

[Laaba 80]

150 replies, and I'm surprised no one has come up with this. The Vet takes care of the gerbils between matches, of course.

Seriously, whoever noticed the wording "Games Hint" may be on to something. That corresponds with Dave's "For the two" signature.

Edit - where did "Games Hint" appear? On the FIRST site (which only has #2 up) it says "Game".

Hopefully you find this...... On the Email blasts i think it only lists game hint no s, not positive though. If you go do the decryption test you get a screen of all 3 game hints. The first hint however (IR reciever) doesnt have an S making me think that the IR will tell your robot what it needs to do to score. The last 2 hints are listed as gameS hints (Emphasis mine). Notice the S??:ahh:

[comphappy]

I can conferm that there is no 's'
On the note of the 4 thing, there are 4 channels of O for the IR.
Also Evince Doucument view default viewer for most Linux distros works fine. If you are not able to download and programs on the computere you are using, you can still install Acrobat Reader on a flash drive and use it that way.

[Laaba 80]

I can conferm that there is no 's'


No S in the Email blast? because there definately is one in the decryption test.:confused:
Joey

[ahecht]

Thanks Mark, I forgot.

On Kyle's question: I did it but there are about 47,000 of them so if anyone wants to take a look, go ahead.

Here's the link: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Vet+hurdling+FIRST+tetra&language=english&t=0&d=&include=&exclude=&n=&m=&source=adv&a=n&l=n&q=n

Here is the best anagram I could come up with:

Flattering turds thrive

[Xavier Brandall]

I think that it's definately an Anagram of some kind. A program could be written to come up with every possible letter combination, then cross-referenced with Microsoft Word to check for real words, but this would be impractical as the competition is so close.

Another question, if it is an anagram, is if "FIRST" is mereley "FIRST", or if it is expanded to "For Inspiration and Recognition of Standards Technology", which would add a new level of insanity to the anagram. If it is an anagram, then it's far more practical just to wait for the kick-off.

[tseres]

you mean "For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology" lol....about the fishing stuff and all the races...i really can't see the GDC do something like that....i'm thinking of a more rack 'n roll style game again, maybe with goal posts around the field, different objects rather than tubes, and the ir tells you where to score in autonomous mode or something..

[artdutra04]

Here is the best anagram I could come up with:

Flattering turds thriveAnother anagram from the game hint that's similar to that one is "the first traveling turd".

It would have been better if this was Game Hint #2.

[Arefin Bari]

FIRST has never supplied us with cardboard boxes. An email was sent out listing what will be in the KOP and the following items are in the KOP.

2 cardboard boxes
36" x 4" x 9"
12" x 16"

[EricH]

FIRST has never supplied us with cardboard boxes. An email was sent out listing what will be in the KOP and the following items are in the KOP.

2 cardboard boxes
36" x 4" x 9"
12" x 16"Arefin, those boxes are outer wrapping like the totes. The long one would be Kitbot. I'm not sure about the other.

[Richard McClellan]

I find it rather interesting that the picture of the IR sensor in the 2008 Decryption Test PDF is just the same image that JoeRoss posted for Game Hint#1......

[Optimizer]

Couldn't the term "Vet" be simply referring to a game piece from a prior year' game? Perhaps such a piece is to be tossed over a structure involving tetra, with the "stock market" (i.e., "crash") being when the thing lands - something to be "careful about" (accurate as to where it lands), if you want to score?

As to Hint#2, are we throwing the thing over a (reasonably small) pool of water?

[Roger]

To me, "Vet hurdling FIRST tetra" sounds like a crossword puzzle clue, like "Picture aged sea-captain (3,6)" or "Tired agent welcomed shelter (6)" (both clues from today's The Herald (http://www.theherald.co.uk/crosswords/print.php?gid=1592) (UK); English crosswords are generally very cryptic, much like GDC clues.)

[Tottanka]

I find it rather interesting that the picture of the IR sensor in the 2008 Decryption Test PDF is just the same image that JoeRoss posted for Game Hint#1......


You've got a point there...
That is really wierd..

[Teammax]

OK I did not read through all 11 pages of this so I hope I am not repeating anyone. I do think we figured out the clue (almost :rolleyes: )

If you ju8st take the letters from the sentence you can spell

"infrared lights" and have the following letters left over

v-u-r-e-t-t

Now if I can just figure out what to make of the last letters we will be all set

[3dude_2231]

infrared tetruv :P

[Taylor]

OK I did not read through all 11 pages of this so I hope I am not repeating anyone. I do think we figured out the clue (almost :rolleyes: )

If you just take the letters from the sentence you can spell

"infrared lights" and have the following letters left over

v-u-r-e-t-t

Now if I can just figure out what to make of the last letters we will be all set

True TV
Vutter - it's like velvety butter.

Seriously, I can't help but wonder if the capitalized letters VFIRST in the hint are clues to the anagram. The reason I bring this up is that when "first" is used as the For Inspiration ... program, it is to be capitalized and italicized, like this: FIRST. In the hint, it's not italicized.

[rabidog39]

hurdle - a movable rectangular frame of interlaced twigs, crossed bars, or the like, as for a temporary fence.

movable goals of interlaced of interlaced twigs :rolleyes:
hmm wicker basket?? :]

[Cowmankoza]

I believe in the concept of the redo of the Triple Play auto mode. It’s not necessarily that we will literally be redoing the auto mode itself, but its concept. What is the main difference between the usage of the camera for auto mode between '05, '06 and ‘07? It is the fact that in '06 and '07 the object to track was the goal while in '05 the object to track was the scoring element. So from my perspective, you will be using to camera to find the scoring objects in auto mode.

[sayso_411]

Alright everybody... i think team 384 might have a slight breakthrough in the game hints!!

if you go to this link you will notice that, using the coordinate idea, i have found this

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=vet&near=Copley+Square,+607+Boylston+St,+Boston,+Suffo lk,+Massachusetts,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.564064,59.238281&ie=UTF8&cd=5&geocode=0,42.350110,-71.077360&ll=42.354358,-71.07738&spn=0.014366,0.028925&z=15&iwloc=B&om=1

if you look at business "B" it is called "FIRST Corps of Cadets Veterans" and is approximately 342 degrees in the direction of Copley Square!!!

if anyone can shed some light on my findings it would be appreciated by everyone.

Good Luck everybody from team 384!!

--this guess was found by Brad Wilson of team 384--

[whlspacedude]

WOW This supports my veterans throwing tetras theory!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=666763#post666763

[Brad Voracek]

... Wow. That seems like too much to be a coincidence.

=/

The only question is how does that place tie in... I can't find much about it.

[Laaba 80]

First Corps of Cadets, which was founded in the Revolutionary War-era. Military units had nicknames before they were given numeric designations. The First Corps of Cadets was the military company for Boston during the American Revolution. Today, they are known as the 211 MP (Military Police) Battalion.

I found that after a google search. I also found out that a few days after 911, the First Corps of Cadets Veterens started a fundraiser. ther sold stickers that said "for support" on them for 2.00 each.
I dont know how this could fit in with the game though. The only thing I can think of is a different way of enforcing the rules during gameplay.
Joey

[organman42]

OK I did not read through all 11 pages of this so I hope I am not repeating anyone. I do think we figured out the clue (almost :rolleyes: )

If you just take the letters from the sentence you can spell

"infrared lights" and have the following letters left over

v-u-r-e-t-t

Now if I can just figure out what to make of the last letters we will be all set

Sounds like buret, a piece of chemistry lab equipment used to add a precise amount of a liquid solution to another, in titrations.
Mabye we will be measuring something very precisely (but this is unlikly).:)

[Spider-Man]

Time for some more crazy speculation.

<speculation align="crazy">


Connections. That First Corps of Cadets building is right across the street from the Commonwealth Mall. There many statues (http://www.nabbonline.com/statues.htm) along the length of the mall. Other than the Alexander Hamilton one near Arlington Street and the commons, all of the statues are made of bronze.

The statue that is generally in the same direction as the First Corps of Cadets (which according Team 384 aligns with hint #2) is of Samuel Eliot Morrison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Morison-statue.jpg), which has a brown finish or patina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patina). Bronze has a natural patina called verdigris that is that light green color that the Statue of Liberty retains and the statue on the next block of William Lloyd Garrison (http://www.nabbonline.com/images/mall_statue.jpg).

That natural patina or verdigris when a statue is near the sea will include cuprous chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper%28I%29_chloride) which has a tetrahedral chrystal structure.

The statue of Morrison instead has a light brown to dark brown patina, which according to this site (http://www.sciencecompany.com/patinas/patinaformulas.htm#1) is achievable with ferric nitrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferric_nitrate), which has an octahedral coordination geometry. The creators of the statue hurdled the obstacle of the natural bronze patina of green to choose a different color.


Conclusion. Therefore, through loose connections in the hints (excluding #1), I propose that we will be dealing with octahedron game pieces.

As far as the first hint, I think there will be information provided to robots in autonomous that will either be color based or infrared based and it will be up to each team to decide what method to choose. As far as different colors go, I think hurdling the original green color to choose one of their own could suggest that FIRST is going past the monochromatic vision targets.

</speculation>

[MiniNerd24]

150 replies, and I'm surprised no one has come up with this. The Vet takes care of the gerbils between matches, of course.

Seriously, whoever noticed the wording "Games Hint" may be on to something. That corresponds with Dave's "For the two" signature.

Edit - where did "Games Hint" appear? On the FIRST site (which only has #2 up) it says "Game".

Are you hinting at a two-in-one game?

[SteveMcGarrett]

OK I did not read through all 11 pages of this so I hope I am not repeating anyone. I do think we figured out the clue (almost :rolleyes: )

If you ju8st take the letters from the sentence you can spell

"infrared lights" and have the following letters left over

v-u-r-e-t-t

Now if I can just figure out what to make of the last letters we will be all set

vurett=vet rut

back to the triple play difficulties?

[sayso_411]

Time for some more crazy speculation.

<speculation align="crazy">


Connections. That First Corps of Cadets building is right across the street from the Commonwealth Mall. There many statues (http://www.nabbonline.com/statues.htm) along the length of the mall. Other than the Alexander Hamilton one near Arlington Street and the commons, all of the statues are made of bronze.

The statue that is generally in the same direction as the First Corps of Cadets (which according Team 384 aligns with hint #2) is of Samuel Eliot Morrison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Morison-statue.jpg), which has a brown finish or patina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patina). Bronze has a natural patina called verdigris that is that light green color that the Statue of Liberty retains and the statue on the next block of William Lloyd Garrison (http://www.nabbonline.com/images/mall_statue.jpg).

That natural patina or verdigris when a statue is near the sea will include cuprous chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper%28I%29_chloride) which has a tetrahedral chrystal structure.

The statue of Morrison instead has a light brown to dark brown patina, which according to this site (http://www.sciencecompany.com/patinas/patinaformulas.htm#1) is achievable with ferric nitrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferric_nitrate), which has an octahedral coordination geometry. The creators of the statue hurdled the obstacle of the natural bronze patina of green to choose a different color.


Conclusion. Therefore, through loose connections in the hints (excluding #1), I propose that we will be dealing with octahedron game pieces.

As far as the first hint, I think there will be information provided to robots in autonomous that will either be color based or infrared based and it will be up to each team to decide what method to choose. As far as different colors go, I think hurdling the original green color to choose one of their own could suggest that FIRST is going past the monochromatic vision targets.

</speculation>

I think that they might use different colors, good find :D

[cprogrammer]

I believe that the game will consist of stacking up boxes, then stacking pyramids on top of those boxes to cap them. THe obelisques gave me the idea in copley square

[MiniNerd24]

(totally off topic here) 2039 finally received it's first game hint (the IR gadget)!!!
(back on topic) How about this for a game? Each team (2 teams of 2-3 people) uses their robots to stack and build (or interfere ) with tetras to make some sorta lifting system (a ramp) to get to a goal (for oodles of points) or the closest to the goal (using different sized "blocks" (bigger ones means more points) to get points) wins. You can interfere with the others building process by blocking with your robot.

[team1203 4life]

alright i give up i have read over 1,000 post about the game hints and my brain hurts:mad: :confused: i give up i'll just wait the remaining 44526 seconds till the kickoff

[BanksKid]

i would just like to let everyone know that i am currently sitting under my desk in the fetal position with blanket in hand and thumb in mouth.....partially because i havent slept in the past 50 hours B/C im way to excited for kickoff in a mere 11 hours 55 min....partially because these hints have dirven me mad.....:cool:

[geeknerd99]

I fell asleep a few hours ago (I've been in the shop all afternoon making ready for tomorrow), and I woke up and thought it was morning. I looked at my watch, and it said 9:37. I panicked because I need to be on campus at 9:30 for kickoff. Then I realized that it's still Friday night and I just passed out reading my psych textbook.

I can't help but say. I'm excited. I have a feeling this year will trump all thus far.

[hipsterjr]

After taking part in the great "fake clue" thread, I'm back here:rolleyes: . So, I'm thinking that field elements will in some way be movable and obtain point ( sort of like the vex challenges) and/ or be activated by the IR sensors. I do believe there will be climbing as well.

[ALIBI]

Has anyone else taken a look at the 2008 FIRST ROBOTICS COMPETITION AT-A-GLANCE in the FRC Communications Resource Center? It was added 1/4/08. There are several interesting bits of information that debunk some of the guesses made about this years game. Take a look.

I tried to post the url here but it did not work.

The last part or the url "_08prekickoff" may indicate that things may change postkickoff.

[Akash Rastogi]

Has anyone else taken a look at the 2008 FIRST ROBOTICS COMPETITION AT-A-GLANCE in the FRC Communications Resource Center? It was added 1/4/08. There are several interesting bits of information that debunk some of the guesses made about this years game. Take a look.

I tried to post the url here but it did not work.

The last part or the url "_08prekickoff" may indicate that things may change postkickoff.

This leads to it if anyone wants to check it out.

http://www.usfirst.org/community/resourcecenter.aspx?id=640

Another thing is "FRC 2008 At-A-Glance" ...Not much that you can draw out from it though. But its full of fun facts about FIRST.

[dlavery]

i would just like to let everyone know that i am currently sitting under my desk in the fetal position with blanket in hand and thumb in mouth.....partially because i havent slept in the past 50 hours B/C im way to excited for kickoff in a mere 11 hours 55 min....partially because these hints have dirven me mad.....:cool:

My work here is done.... :)


-dave


.

[Optimizer]

Alright everybody... i think team 384 might have a slight breakthrough in the game hints!!

if you go to this link you will notice that, using the coordinate idea, i have found this

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=l&hl=en&time=&date=&ttype=&q=vet&near=Copley+Square,+607+Boylston+St,+Boston,+Suffo lk,+Massachusetts,+United+States&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.564064,59.238281&ie=UTF8&cd=5&geocode=0,42.350110,-71.077360&ll=42.354358,-71.07738&spn=0.014366,0.028925&z=15&iwloc=B&om=1

if you look at business "B" it is called "FIRST Corps of Cadets Veterans" and is approximately 342 degrees in the direction of Copley Square!!!

if anyone can shed some light on my findings it would be appreciated by everyone.

Good Luck everybody from team 384!!
--this guess was found by Brad Wilson of team 384--

The biggest problem I see with this theory is its claim that this place is "approximately 342 degrees in the direction of Copley Square". To put it simply, this is factually incorrect - there's no way it's in that direction, from anywhere in the square! Sorry, guys! :(

[Optimizer]

My work here is done.... :)

-dave


.

Wow, what on Earth are you doing up at this hour? Aren't you in my time zone? I already caught some ZZZZZs, myself, and will catch some more soon. :confused:

BTW, I also thought that post was priceless, and look forward to my first FIRST kickoff tomorrow!

[dlavery]

Wow, what on Earth are you doing up at this hour? Aren't you in my time zone? I already caught some ZZZZZs, myself, and will catch some more soon. :confused:

BTW, I also thought that post was priceless, and look forward to my first FIRST kickoff tomorrow!

psssh. Sleep is for the weak.

-dave



.

[Akash Rastogi]

psssh. Sleep is for the weak.

-dave



.

Wise words from an insomniac master? :D

[Optimizer]

psssh. Sleep is for the weak.

-dave



.

Point taken! :D

[EddieMcD]

Say Dave, isn't it past your bedtime? Big day tomorrow, and whatnot? :p

Anyhow, I may as well put in my annual "<12 hours before kickoff" game prediction.

And there's really only one thing all three clues have been telling us. The abnormally square piece of paper in the first game hint, the coordinates pointing us to a "globe cafe" in the second hint, tetras in the third clue: whatever you guys are doing will involve the first logo in some way. Whether or not you'll be manipulating cubes, tetrahedrons, & spheres all at once into a single goal for differing point values/multipliers (which BTW, has always figured into my "dream game" in some fashion), or whether it'll be some variety of stacking or putting different-shaped objects into other-shaped goals, somehow, my prediction is that something square-ish, something circle-ish, & something triangular will be involved. And all the clues link up too (Copely Square, and the FIRST Corps of Cadets Veterans [hurdling tetras] located in said square)! And since this is FIRST we're talking about, there's probably going to be a choice to make at the end between continuing what you're doing, or scoring secondary points. Say, what if the end game is another autonomous period where that IR receiver helps you perform your last point scoring maneuvers...

Finally since I can, I'll step into WATER GAME!!1! territory for just a second: what good is a globe without it being 70% water? :D I kid, of course.

[Binome]

Dave must have just finished the game animation, and decided to take a breather from animating :)

[Optimizer]

First, I should correct myself - Kick-off is today!

Then I just wanted to take my last shot at this. I took to heart Dave's somewhat lengthy (but worthwhile) discussion on the importance of knowing what precision you have, as well as what precision you need.

Revisiting the "where, exactly, is this spot?" question, I recalled that the first people who located the spot (on Google, I think) varied the input and got the same result. This means that has a significant (if undetermined) inaccuracy.

I figured where the spot should be independently, using topo map images, and had estimated that the answer might be good to about 30FT. The closest thing to that spot, BTW, is a statue of Philips Brooks (not Copely), which is along the north side of Trinity Church. Given the unknown accuracy of Google, I'm going with this spot now.

My first estimate was that the bearing headed toward the burger joints from there, but looking more carefully at it, it looks more like it's really across from a subway stop. If I still thought it was looking at the Burger King, I would confidently conclude that the clue meant "Stack Attack" (meaning that elements of that previous game would return this time).

All I can do is speculate that my errors are a bit worse than I thought, and that #2 really does just mean "Stack Attack" (plus a hint of better floating-point computing this time).

Hint #1 was probably just so we wouldn't freak out about this new equipment that seems complicated at first, but isn't really such a big deal after you sit down and look at it. They must really want to make sure we succeed at employing it.

#3 just seems to be another reference to aspects of previous games being revisited (with a new twist, I'm sure). So far we have a combo of Stack Attack (the Burger King campaign), Triple Play (the tetras), and Aim High (something airborne - "hurdling").

Sounds like fun!

[organman42]

psssh. Sleep is for the weak.

-dave



.

only during build season

[Nin_estarSaerah]

the encryption key is an anagram of vet hurdling first tetra

[Andrew Bates]

It is? Hmm even if you figured that out though you wouldn't have the CAPS and the punctuation.

[Nin_estarSaerah]

yeah i know, because i tried about 20 anagrams, including drivestraitturnleft but yeah...punctuation was the problem

[KarenH]

yeah i know, because i tried about 20 anagrams, including drivestraitturnleft but yeah...punctuation was the problem

It is? Hmm even if you figured that out though you wouldn't have the CAPS and the punctuation.
The anagram, spelled correctly, is
drive straight turn left

It corresponds letter for letter with the words in the clue. Word puzzles don't generally rely on capitalization and punctuation, so as far as I can tell, it's 100 percent accurate.

[Nin_estarSaerah]

pardon me, my spelling is generally bad when i'm typing too fast...

word puzzles don't rely much on punctuation and capitalization, but passwords do! :yikes:

[ahecht]

Password or not, "drive straight turn left" does describe what the robots do in this year's game.

[ShotgunNinja]

Well, whatever the game ends up being, I sure hope it involves the IR sensor and the IP camera intensively. I got accepted to MSOE for my work last year (AS A PROGRAMMER) on my team's IR board, from wiring to mounting to programming to interface design. I would love to have that kind of challenge again, especially if it is made a core part of gameplay and more teams feel obligated to work with it.

[Joe G.]

Someone should probably edit the title of this to clarify that this is for the 2008 game, I know I jumped when I thought "How did a game hint and 200+ replies get generated without me noticing?"

[McGurky]

Um ya, this was last years hint, just an FYI :(

[ATannahill]

Same reaction here, can all older hint threads be locked.

[Madison]

This is for the 2008 game.