Trackballs

[chaineezee]

What types and what retailers carry the balls required for this year's game?

[Andrew Bates]

Are they like the yellow exercise balls that the FVC used last year?

[Otaku]

anybody have the FRC trackball specs? diameter anybody? weight?

[JoshD]

anybody have the FRC trackball specs? diameter anybody? weight?


They said the diameter was 40 inches. Don't know about the weight.

[KingBK]

From the way they looked in the video i don't think they are like the exercise balls. they look like a bladder covered in some sort of cloth. they are also 10 pounds when they're inflated.


Any idea where we can get them?

[dantheflipman]

They said the diameter was 40 inches. Don't know about the weight.

the ball is 40 inches in diameter and weighs in at 10 lbs.

Thats a pretty huge ball...

[Éowyn]

anybody have the FRC trackball specs? diameter anybody? weight?

Out of the manual:

The game pieces, known as “TRACKBALLS,” are large balls made of an inflatable plastic bladder and an outer fabric covering. When inflated, each TRACKBALL is approximately 40 inches in diameter, and weighs approximately 10 pounds. Two TRACKBALLS of each alliance color, red and blue, are in the arena during the MATCH. One TRACKBALL of each color will be marked with a set of six-inch diameter white dots so that it may be uniquely identified for tracking purposes during the match.

[Binome]

One is supposed to be in the KoP, and I bet you can probably order extras at the same place you could order tubes last year.

[Vashts6583]

regarding size and weight, does anyone know if they're similar to the large yellow balls used in either the 2003 or 2004 competition?

[lancerbotics]

Just a heads up. We get a trackball in the KOP. Has any one found where to get more yet?

[cziggy343]

regarding size and weight, does anyone know if they're similar to the large yellow balls used in either the 2003 or 2004 competition?

they are strikingly similar to the 2004 yellow balls... but i think that those were slightly smaller in diameter, but im not certain

[jasper.s.jacobs]

the ball included in the kit is a 40" excersise/yoga ball with a separate cloth cover.

[cpokwdwh_sam]

what kind of needle is needed to inflate the ball included in the KoP???

[Jon K.]

As of right now Logo Loc the company that had the Rack N Roll tubes last year has nothing on their site about Track Balls but if I remember right they didn't have anything up last year until the work week had started. Check back in the next week or so and they may... Also things have been put out by IFI in the past although they may not be this year.
http://logoloc.com/first/index.html

[TomZ]

If at the beggining of the match during the hybrid period, you knock down a ball of the opposing alliance, who recieves the points?

[kE7JLM]

this might not be stander balls that you can get in the store. It was a blatter inside and a canvas skin on the outside.

[Alexa Stott]

They don't fit through standard doorways... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/29473?)

Great move on FIRST/GDC's part... :rolleyes:

[chaineezee]

Anybody know how to inflate the ball?

[dbell]

they are strikingly similar to the 2004 yellow balls... but i think that those were slightly smaller in diameter, but im not certain

These are a lot bigger than the "2x" balls in 2004. These trackballs are BIG.
6.3 GAME PIECES
The game pieces, known as “TRACKBALLS,” are large balls made of an inflatable plastic bladder
and an outer fabric covering. When inflated, each TRACKBALL is approximately 40 inches in
diameter, and weighs approximately 10 pounds. Two TRACKBALLS of each alliance color, red and
blue, are in the arena during the MATCH. One TRACKBALL of each color will be marked with a set
of six-inch diameter white dots so that it may be uniquely identified for tracking purposes during the
match.

[MachineMan]

The instructions for inflation are at the bottom of Section 10 Kit of Parts of the manual.

[AndyB]

Weighed ours in at 8lbs.

[tony.dalia.195]

Weighed ours in at 8lbs.

Ya the rules stated that the balls would weigh approximately 10 pounds so it really all just depends on how much you fill the ball obviously.

[rainy846]

haha!
We had to used a vacuum cleaner to pump it up. Then it didn't fit through the door way, so we had to let some air out and went to a room that has those huge glass doors to the back yard. Barely fit in mini vans.

Its 40 inches dia
and when we weighted it , it was about 7.14 pounds and 3.25 kg (inflated)

The covering is pretty slippery even for picking up with hands!

that's all I can about it for now.

[Eragon301]

Here (http://www.orientaltrading.com/application?origin=page.jsp&namespace=browse&event=link.itemDetails&categoryId=377320&BP=8110&sku=61%2f4&cm_mmc=NXTG-_-Teacher%20Supplies-_-Balls%20and%20Flying%20Discs%20and%20Accessories-_-PVC%20Gym%20Ball) is a site that will sell 40" gym balls, but its just the blatter, and i have yet to find a site to get the cloth cover.

[Ragnarokae]

If at the beggining of the match during the hybrid period, you knock down a ball of the opposing alliance, who recieves the points?

<G08> All TRACKBALL scores are awarded to the ALLIANCE associated with the scored TRACKBALL, independent of the ROBOT that may have caused the scoring action to occur.

[rainy846]

Here (http://www.orientaltrading.com/application?origin=page.jsp&namespace=browse&event=link.itemDetails&categoryId=377320&BP=8110&sku=61%2f4&cm_mmc=NXTG-_-Teacher%20Supplies-_-Balls%20and%20Flying%20Discs%20and%20Accessories-_-PVC%20Gym%20Ball) is a site that will sell 40" gym balls, but its just the blatter, and i have yet to find a site to get the cloth cover.

the cloth cover shouldn't really "pop". you can always sew it back together or patch it up since airtightness isn't an issue

[jasper.s.jacobs]

the alliance who's ball was knocked off gets the points.

[jgannon]

Ya the rules stated that the balls would weigh approximately 10 pounds so it really all just depends on how much you fill the ball obviously.
I'm guessing that the weight difference between inflated and not is pretty much negligible. :rolleyes:

[tony.dalia.195]

I'm guessing that the weight difference between inflated and not is pretty much negligible. :rolleyes:

Hey last time i checked...............ok...............ya air is kind of light, good point.

[Uberbots]

Hey last time i checked...............ok...............ya air is kind of light, good point.

according to my calculations, the mass of the air in the ball is about 1.5 pounds (at stp)... which is actually pretty significant.

either way... any progress on where to purchase the balls yet?

[smurfgirl]

according to my calculations, the mass of the air in the ball is about 1.5 pounds (at stp)... which is actually pretty significant.

either way... any progress on where to purchase the balls yet?

I know that additional parts are available at IFI's online store... wouldn't the game pieces be available there?

[AndyB]

Just give it some time. I'm sure FIRST will point out a carrier if IFI doesn't end up carrying it. Just give it some time. You don't really need a ball for another few weeks yet to be honest. At least until you get prototyping.

[artdutra04]

Just give it some time. I'm sure FIRST will point out a carrier if IFI doesn't end up carrying it. Just give it some time. You don't really need a ball for another few weeks yet to be honest. At least until you get prototyping.I'll bet that the FIRST LogoLoc store will be carrying it this year, since they were the distribution channel for all of the tubes last year.

[cbudrecki]

Here (http://www.orientaltrading.com/application?origin=page.jsp&namespace=browse&event=link.itemDetails&categoryId=377320&BP=8110&sku=61%2f4&cm_mmc=NXTG-_-Teacher%20Supplies-_-Balls%20and%20Flying%20Discs%20and%20Accessories-_-PVC%20Gym%20Ball) is a site that will sell 40" gym balls, but its just the blatter, and i have yet to find a site to get the cloth cover.

Are these the same grade PVC as this year's bladders, or are these more like the '04 2X balls?

[cbudrecki]

If at the beggining of the match during the hybrid period, you knock down a ball of the opposing alliance, who recieves the points?

This question has been answered in this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60681). Also, READ THE MANUAL. <G08>

[Wayne Doenges]

FYI, a fully inflated ball will bounce 17' when dropped from a third story balcony :ahh:
I just had to throw this in. Good luck to all.

[razor95kds]

our ball weighed 7.0 pounds before AND after inflation. Our scale is pretty accurate to the tenth digit too (its not a bathroom scale fyi)

[Eragon301]

Are these the same grade PVC as this year's bladders, or are these more like the '04 2X balls?
I'm not sure, I couldn't find anywhere that said it, but I'm still looking

[DonRotolo]

according to my calculations, the mass of the air in the ball is about 1.5 pounds (at stp)... which is actually pretty significant.
1.5 pounds? To clarify, are you trying to tell me that you calculated the weight of about 20 cubic feet of air as being 24 ounces?

That's off by several orders of magnitude. That doesn't even pass the 'reasonable' test.

Don

[Mike Betts]

1.5 pounds? To clarify, are you trying to tell me that you calculated the weight of about 20 cubic feet of air as being 24 ounces?

That's off by several orders of magnitude. That doesn't even pass the 'reasonable' test.

Don

Don,

The answer is quite near correct. actually 22.4 cubic feet of air weighs about 28.8 oz if you assume an 80/20 mix of Nitrogen/Oxygen...

You may wish to clarify or rescind your criticism on this point...

Mike

[DonRotolo]

Indeed, Mike - what I foolishly ignored (to my own detriment!) is that while the air inside the ball DOES weigh several ounces, I forgot that it's immersed in air of similar density and composition, so the DIFFERENCE in weight (which is what I was thinking about) is a very small number (accounted for only by the pressure increase above the air outside the ball.)

I apologize to Uberbots for typing before thinking, and humbly thank Mike for pointing out the error.

No matter who you think you are, you can still get trapped by your own mind. If it really matters, ask a colleague for a reality check.

Don :o

[Kevin Sevcik]

Does anyone have an estimate of the pressure in a properly inflated ball? 1 atm is about 15 psi. So if the balls are inflated to 15 psi, then the extra air would come out to 1.5 pounds. FIRST's inflation standards are size and not pressure based, so if it takes 10 psi or so to inflate some track balls, then the variances could be fairly significant.

[Elgin Clock]

I found a site that sells balls similar to the trackball, and the 40" balls themselves cost approximately $60 to $110. The covers for the balls cost $45, and the replaceable inner bladder costs $20.50.

Those numbers are just posted by me as reference, and not to be taken for anything other than reference at this point.

I WILL NOT provide a link to my source until the official source of the balls is made public, so you will just have to trust me on this one.

[Francis-134]

Does anyone have an estimate of the pressure in a properly inflated ball? 1 atm is about 15 psi. So if the balls are inflated to 15 psi, then the extra air would come out to 1.5 pounds. FIRST's inflation standards are size and not pressure based, so if it takes 10 psi or so to inflate some track balls, then the variances could be fairly significant.
At the kickoff, the balls were inflated to the point that the cloth cover was completely taught with no wrinkles on any of the seams. This is also what the manual says.

When we inflated our ball, everyone thought that it would break well before it reached full inflation. However, the ball reached the proper size without any problems. We were even able to press on it a small amount without it breaking. I've seen a lot of pics on CD lately with people that seem to have under inflated balls. To be blunt, don't be shy about inflating those balls!

[Elgin Clock]

Also, one more thing should be noted about the balls that is worth some interest.

The zipper head should be under a flap of fabric when you inflate your balls and zip up the outer Red or Blue cover. If it is not, then you did not turn your ball's cover inside out, and put it on correctly.

The ball covers were shipped to you in the "inside-out" position.

Just make sure your zipper is hiding under the flap when it is closed, and you should be golden.

[Tapoore]

To those who were around during the 2004 game:

Do the balls from this year behave in a similar way to the 2004 balls?

[Elgin Clock]

To those who were around during the 2004 game:
Do the balls from this year behave in a similar way to the 2004 balls?

Less bouncy with 2 layers of different materials acting as a damper, more heavy as well because of that fact.

This is going by memory.
No "official" tests were done by myself to conclude this other than some common sense & interactions with both 3 years apart. lol

[mik3goodwin]

pretty sure that the opposing team would get points for you knocking down ball or nobody

[rabridges]

40 inches in diameter, Weight is 10 pounds

[Frank Neuperger]

Does anyone have a "disclosable" source for those balls.

Regards
Frank

[artdutra04]

To those who were around during the 2004 game:

Do the balls from this year behave in a similar way to the 2004 balls?They are similar. The 2004 (and 2001) era balls were 30", and comparable to what we would call the bladder of the trackball.

This is going by memory.
No "official" tests were done by myself to conclude this other than some common sense & interactions with both 3 years apart. lolElgin, it's been four years since FIRST Frenzy. :yikes:

[purduephotog]

Does anyone have a "disclosable" source for those balls.

Regards
Frank

Yup we need one. I sort of, errr, ruptured ours last night while working.

I think it's time to return to slightly smaller field elements- last years rack couldn't be built anywhere due to space restrictions, and these balls are larger than the standard width of an aisleway! (30" according to ADA).

And they cut very easily if you bounce them into a metal table. Sigh.

[nparikh]

I called FIRST yesterday and they said they'd release information on buying more either today or tomorrow.

[garrisos]

Does anyone know where we can order more track balls?:rolleyes:

[GaryVoshol]

Does anyone know where we can order more track balls?:rolleyes:

Update 3 does ...

[chinckley]

Does anyone know the PSI of the trackballs?
I see in update 4 that they weigh about 7.3 pounds, but
one of our mentors wanted to know the PSI.

Carolyn Hinckley

[EricH]

Does anyone know the PSI of the trackballs?
I see in update 4 that they weigh about 7.3 pounds, but
one of our mentors wanted to know the PSI.

Carolyn HinckleyPSI doesn't matter. Check Q&A and they'll tell you the same thing. It's the size that matters. I suppose if you really want to know the PSI, you could inflate one to the right size using a pump with a gauge on it and check that.

[chinckley]

PSI doesn't matter. Check Q&A and they'll tell you the same thing. It's the size that matters. I suppose if you really want to know the PSI, you could inflate one to the right size using a pump with a gauge on it and check that.

Do you know what they are using to tell the size?
How do we know when it is inflated correctly?

Carolyn Hinckley

[EricH]

Do you know what they are using to tell the size?
How do we know when it is inflated correctly?

Carolyn HinckleyI don't know what they are using. I would suspect some sort of box, but it may also be "does it look right?" You could ask Q&A--I haven't seen that question yet.

[chinckley]

I do not understand this from Q&A...


Touching the rack while hurtling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there any limitations on touching or hitting the rack while hurtling?



Re: Touching the rack while hurtling

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restrictions on contact between the Robot and the Overpass are defined in Rule <G34>.

Restrictions on contact between the Robot and The Rack are much more severe, as they would have to involve reverse time travel.

----------------------------------------

What does this mean?

[EricH]

I do not understand this from Q&A...


Touching the rack while hurtling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there any limitations on touching or hitting the rack while hurtling?



Re: Touching the rack while hurtling

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restrictions on contact between the Robot and the Overpass are defined in Rule <G34>.

Restrictions on contact between the Robot and The Rack are much more severe, as they would have to involve reverse time travel.

----------------------------------------

What does this mean?You are looking at a reference to the 2007 game's central scoring structure, the Rack (from Rack and Roll). Hence the reverse time travel. The Overpass has been called the rack by mistake.

[jgannon]

Do you know what they are using to tell the size?
How do we know when it is inflated correctly?
Take a look at page 11 of section 10 of the manual... not perfect by any means, but a pretty decent guide.

[chinckley]

You are looking at a reference to the 2007 game's central scoring structure, the Rack (from Rack and Roll). Hence the reverse time travel. The Overpass has been called the rack by mistake.



This actually came from the 2008 Q&A system.

It was the question and answer.

It was posted on 1-15-08 by team 1350.

[mastercadman]

if you check the manual under 6.3 it says that the trackball is 40" diameter and approximately 10 lbs. but update 4 its states that the trackball actually 7.3 lbs. To inflate the ball check the manual because it has an entire section on inflating the trackball to the right spot.

[EricH]

This actually came from the 2008 Q&A system.

It was the question and answer.I know. Hence the reverse time travel.

Allow me to explain: in 2007, the scoring structure was known as the "Rack". The 2008 scoring structure is the "Overpass". So, when someone asked about scoring on the rack (thinking of the overpass), the GDC responded that the rules for contacting the Overpass could be found in <G34>. But the rules on contacting the Rack (last year) involve reverse time travel (i.e. traveling back in time and contacting the Rack).

[chinckley]

I know. Hence the reverse time travel.

Allow me to explain: in 2007, the scoring structure was known as the "Rack". The 2008 scoring structure is the "Overpass". So, when someone asked about scoring on the rack (thinking of the overpass), the GDC responded that the rules for contacting the Overpass could be found in <G34>. But the rules on contacting the Rack (last year) involve reverse time travel (i.e. traveling back in time and contacting the Rack).

That would explain why I did not understand what they meant at all.

Thanks.

[MedievalWarrior]

How do we prevent the balls from popping during the actual competition?

[Alan Anderson]

How do we prevent the balls from popping during the actual competition?

You design your robot to not endanger them. Among other things, see rule <R05> regarding sharp corners and edges.