Youtube Game Animation #2008 Overdrive

[Denis]

Hello,

Well personnel to facilitate i upload the animation of the game of the year on youtube.

Good luck times!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaocTCIph7M

:D :ahh:

[Tomasz Bania]

Hello,

Well personnel to facilitate i upload the animation of the game of the year on youtube.

Good luck times!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaocTCIph7M

:D :ahh:

I may be wrong, but isn't there something in FIRST's rules that doesn't allow you to "rebroadcast" their material without FIRST's approval?

If it doesn't, you are still probably not allowed to because it violates Youtube's TOS.

But on the bright side, thanks for lightening the load on NASA's servers and delivering instant gratification. :0

[RyanCesiel]

My brother posted it on Vimeo, which might have higher quality:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60710

As far as violating FIRST's redistribution rules, I have no clue. There's a ton of Youtube videos from last year's animation, so I figured that it was okay. If we could get someone to confirm or deny that officially, that'd be nice.

[Denis]

Sorry i don't know of this rules, but the youtube is accessed tao tao and is easy to connect. In Lan House eg can not download videos or animations. In youtube not need to download anything up!


YouTube is +1 tool for we!

[X-Istence]

Bittorrent anyone?

[BanksKid]

on the subject of youtube i would just like to say...."WE HAVE A CAMERA RIGHT NOW!"

[tony.dalia.195]

on the subject of youtube i would just like to say...."WE HAVE A CAMERA RIGHT NOW!"

LETS DO IT

[Denis]

on the subject of youtube i would just like to say...."WE HAVE A CAMERA RIGHT NOW!"

hahahaha :D

[Denis]

Regarding the video, animation, it is true that there are flaws in the video? i don't understand

[Bongle]

Regarding the video, animation, it is true that there are flaws in the video? i don't understand

One of the tall robots descores a trackball in the opposing team's home stretch by extending up and knocking it.

According to <G36> (possibly <G35>, I don't remember and don't have a manual handy), you can't be over 6ft in the opposing team's home stretch, meaning that robot would have incurred a penalty.

[Cory]

Guys--I would suggest you delete these copies off of youtube, and any other site you have hosted them on.

To do so without FIRST's explicit consent is copyright violation.

[BandChick]

If you guys are really concerned about the animation, keep your eyes peeled here: http://youtube.com/user/FIRSTWorldTube

And while you're waiting, watch some of the FIRST President's Circle videos that Paul Gudonis mentioned during his kickoff speech.

[dlavery]

The game animation is a copyrighted product. Unless you have received permission explicitly permitting you to do so, you do not have permission to re-host or re-distribute that material. If you are doing so, it should be removed immediately.

Again, the reason that we are making this point is not to be unnecessarily pedantic about copyright rules. It is to make the point that the rules do exist, and as consummate professionals it is our responsibility to act within them. A violation of a rule is a violation of a rule - no matter how small.

-dave

[richalex2010]

Who would we contact to receive permission, and/or to provide suggestions for licensing?

I'll need to do a bit of research that would allow it to be freely redistributed by anyone, but not modified in any way and with all intellectual property rights still belonging to FIRST. Hopefully, if a new licensing stance were taken, it would produce a win-win situation.

On a similar note, FIRST appears to pick and choose where the copyright issues are applied. It seems to me that use of anything, including the FIRST logo, brochures, etc., should not be allowed for any redistribution, yet it is available for anyone to use for such applications. This, by my understanding, should be in violation of the copyright rule, but yet it is promoted. If someone could tell me what the issue is here (different license, something else, etc.), that would be helpful.

Again, based on the rules applied (internally, by FIRST) to some files (manual, animation), nothing should be allowed to be used on anything not published *and* distributed by FIRST.
However, based on the rules that FIRST applies (internally) to other materials (logos, brochures, etc.), everything should be able to be used on websites, in promotional material, and generally spread over the web and the real world as much as possible.

I don't write this as a flame or anything like that, just to (hopefully) provoke thought. Also, please don't forget the question at the beginning of the post.

Respectfully,
-Jake Alexander

[fimmel]

along with this. im the webmaster for my team and id like to put the game animation on there. how do i get permission to do this or can i just put it up? also what about the overdrive logo and other FIRST graphics and videos? where is the line drawn for teams promoting first through their website and copyright infringement.


not to start a flame war but this is getting carried away. FIRST has asked us to help let the public become informed about FIRST, if we cant rebroadcast the video and such what are we supposed to do? make our own game animation and make it available to share? idk (if this offends anyone let me know but its something that should be said)

...forest

[JaneYoung]

Who would we contact to receive permission, and/or to provide suggestions for licensing?
Respectfully,
-Jake Alexander
Jake,
I would suggest that you send Dave Lavery a PM with your questions and requests.

Jane
---
Edit: I did a search for 'copyright' and was looking for posts made by Dave regarding copyright. In the link I am adding, there is a post of his that discusses copyright and in that post, it includes links to 2 other discussions with comments made by him. It might be worthwhile for those who don't understand copyright and its value, to read Dave's posts. They are about 3 different situations but they all say the same thing.

Dave is one of our valuable resources on ChiefDelphi and he knows his stuff about copyright. Oh, and other stuff.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=502060&postcount=32

[Pavan Dave]

along with this. im the webmaster for my team and id like to put the game animation on there. how do i get permission to do this or can i just put it up? also what about the overdrive logo and other FIRST graphics and videos? where is the line drawn for teams promoting first through their website and copyright infringement.


not to start a flame war but this is getting carried away. FIRST has asked us to help let the public become informed about FIRST, if we cant rebroadcast the video and such what are we supposed to do? make our own game animation and make it available to share? idk (if this offends anyone let me know but its something that should be said)

...forest

I can name a lot of teams websites that I looked at today who somehow infringe on FIRST rules whether it inappropriate logo use and I can name a few (not off the top of my head) that have the video, the animation, or some form of video footage of either FIRST or NASA's webcast that have infringed on the copyright. I can guarantee you that these teams did not ask FIRST because (besides the fact that it takes for ever for a response) they were posted the SAME NIGHT of kickoff. [Most of the web pages didn't even have "This video is not property of FRCXYZ but the property of FIRST" or any disclaimer.]

There is even a book published with the FIRST logo on it in a "cartoon" version as well as tons of others who have uploaded videos from the past to the internet. FOR PROFIT!!!

FIRST NEEDS TO USE THE GNU General Public License. I'm telling you (Dave and FIRST) that you can't complain (you can but without merit) if you are telling everyone to spread the word but not give us resources to do it by redistributing it since I can assure you that almost (if not every) team has downloaded a copy of any FIRST video or document and emailed it to someone else or used a pin drive to transport it and copy to others' computers or even putting it on a network folder.

You can shun this behavior all you want but the reality is that you can't ask for real french fries without the potato and that is exactly what FIRST is trying to do. Spread the message but don't redistribute anything to get the message sent.

Pavan.

EDIT: For all of you web developers. Make sure you get it in writing that you are allowed to use whatever you ask for... I have a feeling "somebody gonnna get a hurt real bad**"
**This phrase belongs to Russell Peters but the context in no way reflects the opinions of Russel Peters, his company, or any of his employees.

[richalex2010]

I don't think that the GPL would allow FIRST to have enough control for them to adopt it.
They are more likely to adopt a license that allows for free redistribution without permission while still maintaining intellectual property rights and control over new revisions of things like logos and animations. I haven't yet found one that matches that (but then I haven't really looked yet).

[RyanCesiel]

The game animation is a copyrighted product. Unless you have received permission explicitly permitting you to do so, you do not have permission to re-host or re-distribute that material. If you are doing so, it should be removed immediately.

Again, the reason that we are making this point is not to be unnecessarily pedantic about copyright rules. It is to make the point that the rules do exist, and as consummate professionals it is our responsibility to act within them. A violation of a rule is a violation of a rule - no matter how small.

-dave
Thanks for the clearing this up, I'll take my Vimeo copy off immediately. This also confuses me a little more. Where do we draw the line? Like fimmel said, what about FIRST game graphics and even the FIRST logo? If the animation is copyright material, logos and game graphics are definitely copyright. However, that contradicts the requirements of the Website Excellence Award.

Is the fact that FIRST tells you to use their logo in the award requirements, permission?

Thanks again Dave for taking the time to come online and help answer questions. :)

[JaneYoung]

Is the fact that FIRST tells you to use their logo in the award requirements, permission?



The FIRST website is a great resource and is always a good place to look first.
This is logo info.

http://www.usfirst.org/community/resourcecenter.aspx?id=650

Edit:
Responding to Pavan's post above and below regarding spreading the message of FIRST - I wonder if the partnership regarding FIRSTWorldTube doesn't address this?
http://youtube.com/user/FIRSTWorldTube

[Pavan Dave]

I don't think that the GPL would allow FIRST to have enough control for them to adopt it.
They are more likely to adopt a license that allows for free redistribution without permission while still maintaining intellectual property rights and control over new revisions of things like logos and animations. I haven't yet found one that matches that (but then I haven't really looked yet).

I agree with you that they need a license that more better suits them but not something that completely cuts the world off from redistributing. I think that as long as FIRST is given credit and the footage is not modified it would be good enough for the community, like at the bottom of the site or under the video write "This video is property of usFIRST (usfirst.org/)."

[richalex2010]

I've done a bit of research on licenses that would allow public redistribution while still allowing a degree of control over use for FIRST.

Apple Common Documentation License (CDL):
http://www.opensource.apple.com/cdl/
This is "a very simple and consistent license that allows relatively unrestricted use and redistribution of documents while still maintaining the author's credit and intent." It doesn't specify how the original author is to be given credit, as long as it is given (which shouldn't be a problem with FIRST, because it has copyrights and/or logos all over the place; also, teams want to associate themselves with FIRST)

OpenContent License (OPL):
http://opencontent.org/opl.shtml
"This document outlines the principles underlying the OpenContent (OC) movement and may be redistributed provided it remains unaltered. For legal purposes, this document is the license under which OpenContent is made available for use." This seems (and I've only read what I copied here) to be pretty good (if not perfect) for FIRST.

Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/legalcode
"This license is the most restrictive of our six main licenses, allowing redistribution. This license is often called the “free advertising” license because it allows others to download your works and share them with others as long as they mention you and link back to you, but they can’t change them in any way or use them commercially." Again, this seems pretty good for FIRST, if it's not perfect. Note, I only read the human-readable version (the first link), so there may be some legalese that FIRST doesn't like, but it seems good.

Note, I'm definitely not a lawyer, and don't intend to become one; I'm just looking at the overviews and suggesting them for consideration and further examination by properly trained people.

Respectfully,
-Jake Alexander

[Denis]

Hello friends,

Sorry, i did not by malice and not to disobey the rules. I did upload the animation of the game of 2008 on youtube to facilitate access to the video, because I myself at times in Lan Houses, which are not allowed downloads. The video has already views 1500 and is being reviewed very!

I already sent an e-mail to usfirst asking permission or if need exclude the video ...

[JohnBoucher]

The premise of the web is we all link to each others content. Just link to it. If FIRST Wants it on the FIRST Youtube channel, the they will do it.

[lilac]

Hello friends,

Sorry, i did not by malice and not to disobey the rules. I did upload the animation of the game of 2008 on youtube to facilitate access to the video, because I myself at times in Lan Houses, which are not allowed downloads. The video has already views 1500 and is being reviewed very!

I already sent an e-mail to usfirst asking permission or if need exclude the video ...

Ok, I think we must let #2247 know bout this copyright, they also uploaded the video on Youtube

I will try to contact them n ask them to ask permision to BRFIRST.

[lilac]

Hello,

Well personnel to facilitate i upload the animation of the game of the year on youtube.

Good luck times!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaocTCIph7M

:D :ahh:

Denis, pelas regras da FIRST você tem que retirar o video do Youtube =/

a única reprodução permitida seria no BrFIRST, e como o video já está lá, acho que não é necessário

[Denis]

I already withdrew the video. Sorry :( :rolleyes:

[Pavan Dave]

I already withdrew the video. Sorry :( :rolleyes:

Don't apologize. You were just trying to do what you thought was right. MANY people (especially those in the web group) have made this kind of mistake by hosting the video on their website or even the manuals or other FIRST documents. We're all in the same boat.

[JaneYoung]

Don't apologize. You were just trying to do what you thought was right. MANY people (especially those in the web group) have made this kind of mistake by hosting the video on their website or even the manuals or other FIRST documents. We're all in the same boat.

Oftentimes when making a mistake, even an innocent one - it is wise to apologize for the mistake and then try to improve and not repeat the mistake.

In the virtual world and in today's society it is easy to find easy ways to do things. Are they the right ways? Are they legal? Do they have ramifications? Do they reflect on us as individuals?
--
ChiefDelphi is a wonderful source of information for FIRST teams. It is always good when the information presented is accurate and clear. Opinions and fact are different. Information presented that is not clear nor accurate can create more harm than good.

If one is sincere with regard to offering well researched information to FIRST in areas that could be looked at involving change - the place to do that is with FIRST, not ChiefDelphi.

Some areas just aren't negotiable and they are not colored in shades of gray. Just because you can host a video on a website, doesn't automatically make it ok. With power, goes responsibility. That simple.

[lilac]

I already withdrew the video. Sorry :( :rolleyes:

Hi dear gaucho Denis hahaahahha

Ok, don't worry, just next time before uploading anything that could be copyrighted, just call Brfirst before doing it ok?

[Stuart]

While I do not claim to be a IP attorney . . wouldn't this case fall under fair use in terms of an educational use of said copy righted material . .?

as always I reserve my right to be completely wrong about this.

[Compnerd]

Hello everyone, i had emailed FIRST concerning the Copyright infringment issue, and they replied with this email
Hello James -

Thank you for your email. Please note that you can post the animation on your team's web site. If possible please credit Dave Lavery (as he created the video) or FIRST. Please do not edit the video in any way. Thank you.

Brigid C.


Subject: Website Award Question
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:03:31 -0600
From: James H

To: <frcteams@usfirst.org>

There is a part in the Website competion guidelines stating that Copyright policies must be observed. I found the game animation video on Youtube, and was wondering if embedding the link into my teams site would violate copyright, as that video was not officially posted by FIRST. If this is infringement on copyright, where could I go to link an embedded video into our site?

Thank you,
James H.
Webmaster
Team 1444 – St. Louis Missouri