BENCH POWER SUPPLY - Help!

[COACHTJ1688]

I wanted to be able to work with the control system at my home so I recently purchased a radio shack bench power supply model # 22-510.

It ranges from 12-13.8 volts and its 25 amps. It is switched but not variable amperage output.

Will I blow up the RC if I use this for power while testing?

If so, any suggestions on us9ing a switched power supply? Is there any way to rig up a voltage regulator...or an amperage regulator, perhaps a dimmer switch?

I can't find any specs on the battery itself. I don't have one inf rom of me and I'm guessing at model numbers on the mk battery site.

[COACHTJ1688]

Looking deeper into some other posts I've found that the RC has an internal regulator?

Can anyone confirm this?

[HotWings]

Looking deeper into some other posts I've found that the RC has an internal regulator?

Can anyone confirm this?

You'll be absolutely fine! When you charge the batteries from the Kit, they sometimes go as high as 14.7volts! I am our teams electrical captain, and i permit you to continue with your work :P

[COACHTJ1688]

I'm worried about amperage. The output is 25 amps.

[coreyjon]

Welcome to Chief Delphi first. Second of all, your question is one of caution, and thats good. Don't want to fry anything. That is a very powerful power supply, a bit overkill for the controllor. The input voltage is 12 volts (ideally - as a battery rated at 12 volts will actually have a voltage slightly higher when fully charged, and slightly lower when running out of juice). the power supply is rated at 25 amps (which is a good deal of power). So, if you needed to, you could draw that much current, however, there is no limit to how little current you can draw. Car batteries are often rated for very high amperage, for things like starting your car, but your radio works just fine from the same battery. I can't verify that there is a built in regulator onboard the controllor, although it would make sense. You know you can never assume though. I could be completely wrong, my coffee level is pegged at empty, and it's been a few years since digital electronics - but if it were me, I'de connect it. Just remember to connect first, then turn on power, otherwise you could get a spike in power...and that very well could fry it.

[HotWings]

I'm worried about amperage. The output is 25 amps.

Yes i know, It should be fine.. Amps at that level shouldn't really mean anything. And plus like you said i am 99% sure there is a built in regulator in the board. 1 sec though.

[COACHTJ1688]

Thanks for the quick replies. This is my first foray into programming. I'm normally the welding/build guy.

I've seen my share of magic smoke released from electronics...and I'd rather not destroy a brand new RC if I can help it.

[HotWings]

http://www.ifirobotics.com/docs/first-backup-charger.pdf

Theres the wiring diagram. Seems like its there to me :P

Like the other guy said, its only going to draw the amps it needs.

[DonRotolo]

Electrical circuits only use as much amperage as they need.

Water pressure is like voltage, while water flow rate is like current (Amperes).

If you turn on a faucet, it doesn't matter if the pipe behind it can supply a thousand gallons per second, the faucet will "use" what it uses. If, however, the pressure (voltage) gets too high, the faucet may burst - so keep the voltage below around 14 volts and you'll be fine. 25 Amps is the max, the circuit determines what it "uses".

Note: Switched power supplies need some load to regulate properly. be sure something is connected to it before switching it on. Maybe won't matter, but cheap insurance.

Good luck,
Don

[COACHTJ1688]

I'll keep the receipt handy. HAHA.


Thanks for the help. I'll make sure to report my findings to either this forum, or the fire department...or both.

[yongkimleng]

I'm not sure whats the quality of your PSU, but what I'd do on an unknown PSU (including those for computers):
1. Connect up voltmeter parallel to the 12v rails
2. Add a 12v load: maybe a 12v fan or two.
3. Fuse in series with your 12v line: I think 10A is more than enough?
4. A switch [S1] in series with your 12v line just BEFORE your control systems

So you turn on your psu first, but leave S1 off. Check the voltage and if you're happy, turn on S1. Reason being some switching PSUs start off with a voltage >>> 12V for a few milli/micro seconds immediately after turn-on and may fry your stuff. Just a precaution :)

[Rickertsen2]

It will be fine. The regulation circuitry is pretty robust. I've seen one of these things take a short spike of about 24v and live happily through the rest of a season. The power supply you mention should keep the RC comfortable.

[popo308]

I'm worried about amperage. The output is 25 amps.

The O/I can draw a max of 1000ma ((1amp) (i believe)) 25 amps i think is a bit much?? :ahh: :ahh: :ahh: :ahh:

[karlcswanson]

If you just need to power the RC, you might be able to save a few dollars and just use an old 12V wall wort transformer with some female spade connectors crimped on to it. The backup battery might even work when hooked up to the 12V terminals.

[HotWings]

The backup battery might even work when hooked up to the 12V terminals.

Not a good idea to me lol.

[Andy A.]

According to IFI's published data, here (http://www.ifirobotics.com/docs/rc-ref-guide-6-13-2006.pdf) (.pdf), the typical draw of the RC is between .75 and 1.5 amps, likely very dependent on the radio's draw. So far as I know servos are still powered by the back up battery. Maximum voltage is 15, and minimum is listed as 7, although I've noticed that radio performance degrades quickly as voltage drops below 12. If you operate with a tether then the OI will also be powered by the RC.

The power supply you've got should be capable of running the RC easily. The RC will draw exactly the same current for a given voltage regardless of the supply. However, as others have noted, switching power supplies are not always the cleanest sources, and the high current rating of this supply suggests that it's not intended to power sensitive micro electronics like that in the RC. If possible it would be nice if you could use a 'scope to look at the output and ensure that it is 'clean' and the supply is calibrated. Failing that a multimeter will at least ensure that the voltage it creates is in fact what it says it should be.

Most teams power the RC using one of the supplied batteries while testing. I would recommend doing the same, and using a fast acting fuse or breaker with a 3 to 5 amp rating, regardless of the supply, to safe guard both the RC and the supply. A charged battery should be capable of running the RC for several hours.

-Andy A.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

The Radio Shack power supply is just fine for most of your experimenting. Please keep in mind that this supply may have a problem starting some motors. You might be able to power the RC and the compressor and you might be able to run the Globe motor and possibly the Fisher Price but trying to turn the Chalupa (CIM) motors might prove to be too much current. Remember that a non moving motor is in stall and that means 133 amps for the small and 96 amps for the large Chalupa motors. If you try, the power supply will shut down on high current and the reset may require a power off to restart.

As always, check the polarity of your wiring, twice, before applying power. Many of the electronic devices cannot stand a reverse voltage.

[EricVanWyk]

DO NOT POWER ANY BIG MOTORS OFF OF THIS SUPPLY.

The key point about your bench top supply is that it is a switching regulator. This means that its output looks like a diode followed by a capacitor. Therefore, it will only supply power, it will not sink power.

This is all well and good for powering your control system, as it (should) never attempt to push power back into the supply. However, remember that a DC motor is also a generator. If you were to run a heavy motor full forward and then stop, the energy that is held in the shaft will get pushed back through the victors to your supply. The capacitor will attempt to soak that current, but its voltage will shoot up. The diode will then be reverse biased, effectively eliminating your supply from the circuit.

The end result is that your 12V rail just jumped to some unknown value. If this new voltage is high enough, badness 10000 will occur.

I haven't managed to do this with the KOP, but I've done it before quite painfully on another project. Typically, this will occur while you are presenting.

If you have them laying around, a couple FHCs (Freaking Huge Caps) can help mitigate this, as well as handle the kick over problem.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Erik,
You are right that switching supplies are a little more unforgiving of motor loads, but the output circuit is essentially the same as an unregulated linear supply. i.e. AC transformer winding feeds a diode rectifier which in turn feeds a low pass (capacitor) filter to smooth the DC voltage. The only difference is that the high frequency of the switching supply does not require the large (high value) capacitors needed to form a 60 Hz low pass filter since their operating frequency is much higher. Unfortuantely, feeding FHC is like starting a motor, the inrush current to charge the caps may trip the supply.

[mneary]

Why not use a battery? :o You can use the bench supply to keep it charged.