R16 Playing Configuration

[skimoose]

R16 states,

"Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING CONFIGURATION that exceeds the size dimensions specified in Rule <R11>. While in the PLAYING CONFIGURATION, the ROBOT may expand up to a maximum horizontal dimension of 80 inches (e.g. all parts of the ROBOT must fit within an imaginary 80-inch-diameter upright cylinder). There are no height limits for a ROBOT in its PLAYING CONFIGURATION at any time after the start of the MATCH other than those specified in Rule <G36> about not exceeding the maximum permitted height while in the opponent’s HOME STRETCH."

Last year this rule assumed an cube for max dimension not an upright cylinder. This doesn't leave much room to grasp a 40" diameter ball and lift it. Square robot frames and square end effectors could have problems fitting in this cylinder.

Anyone else see this as an issue?

[Billfred]

The two statements appear to conflict; it's something for Q&A when it comes online. My hope is that they'd choose the first statement for ease of enforcement (both for us and them).

[DonRotolo]

I think they mean that no dimension of the robot can ever exceed 80 inches on a plane parallel to the floor. For a square (or cube) manipulator, the corners are the points that stick out the most, and thus need to be controlled.

I like the idea of an 80" diameter cylinder; in fact I hope they bring a big clear plastic one to the competition so I can get trapped inside it...

Don

[skimoose]

I think they mean that no dimension of the robot can ever exceed 80 inches on a plane parallel to the floor. For a square (or cube) manipulator, the corners are the points that stick out the most, and thus need to be controlled.

I like the idea of an 80" diameter cylinder; in fact I hope they bring a big clear plastic one to the competition so I can get trapped inside it...

Don


The corners are the issue I'm raising. Try sketching out the trackball and the robot's frame and bumpers. Even after accounting for the frame under the balls arc, the back of the robot frame barely stays within an 80" cylinder at the frames corners. So if you're planning to grasp the ball you may exceed this cylinder as you reach around the ball.

[danshaffer]

The corners are the issue I'm raising. Try sketching out the trackball and the robot's frame and bumpers. Even after accounting for the frame under the balls arc, the back of the robot frame barely stays within an 80" cylinder at the frames corners. So if you're planning to grasp the ball you may exceed this cylinder as you reach around the ball.

my quickie CAD shows that if the ball is tangent to the front plane of your 38"x28" robot, then the front end of the ball will not fit within the 80" cylinder. there are some easy ways to get around this problem, however.

[JB987]

my quickie CAD shows that if the ball is tangent to the front plane of your 38"x28" robot, then the front end of the ball will not fit within the 80" cylinder. there are some easy ways to get around this problem, however.

The BALL does not need to fit into the 80" cylinder, the rule states that the ROBOT must fit into the cylinder...the ball is no more a part of the robot than were the inner tubes last year as far as dimensions are concerned.

[Elgin Clock]

The BALL does not need to fit into the 80" cylinder, the rule states that the ROBOT must fit into the cylinder...the ball is no more a part of the robot than were the inner tubes last year as far as dimensions are concerned.

I believe Art is well aware of that, but is calling out the fact that if you grab the ball at it's center point (equivalent to the Earth's equator line) then you run the risk of going outside the virtual cylinder with your robot.

But there are other ways of grasping the ball, like THIS (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60894) for example which don't require grabbing it at the Equator line which would work.

This should be clarified by the GDC none-the-less.

[danshaffer]

I believe Art is well aware of that, but is calling out the fact that if you grab the ball at it's center point (equivalent to the Earth's equator line) then you run the risk of going outside the virtual cylinder with your robot.

But as you can see in my quickie CAD, you should still have plenty of room to grab the equator.
http://palyrobotics.com/files/images/Picture%201.preview.png
That's a 28"x38" robot on the left, a 40" ball on the right and all in an 80" circle/cylinder.

[Billfred]

But as you can see in my quickie CAD, you should still have plenty of room to grab the equator.
http://palyrobotics.com/files/images/Picture%201.preview.png
That's a 28"x38" robot on the left, a 40" ball on the right and all in an 80" circle/cylinder.
Don't forget that you have to wedge some bumpers into that picture. It might not be enough to break the circle, but it's getting closer.

[danshaffer]

Don't forget that you have to wedge some bumpers into that picture. It might not be enough to break the circle, but it's getting closer.

Still looks like you have some room to grab at the diameter of the ball...

[Cory]

Don't forget that you have to wedge some bumpers into that picture. It might not be enough to break the circle, but it's getting closer.

Bumpers don't count towards your robot size for inspection... I'd assume they count here, but who knows?

[Tapoore]

Bumpers don't count towards your robot size for inspection... I'd assume they count here, but who knows?

They did for the 2007 rules (not for inspection, but during the game).