View Full Version : Anyone else try pneumatic hurdling?
Anyone else fail miserably?
Billfred
07-01-2008, 00:34
I haven't done much research into what it'll take to hurdle a trackball, so I'll ask: What sort of setup were you using? The approach may make the difference.
Yes, we failed miserably, with several bores and strokes. Pneumatic punches alone are most definitely not the complete answer.
BeyondRamo
07-01-2008, 00:43
Do we need to actually hurdle the ball over? Can we just move the arm over the Overpass and drop it? Just curious and i haven't heard anything about it.
Yes, we failed miserably, with several bores and strokes. Pneumatic punches alone are most definitely not the complete answer.
330 found that out in 2006... The first designs we tried then were ram-type, and even the pneumatic one didn't work.
We tried many bores and doubled the FIRST allowed air pressure. The best purely vertical height we got was a little over a foot. I think we'll be seeing a lot of bots carrying the ball over, rather than shooting.
whytheheckme
07-01-2008, 00:52
Do we need to actually hurdle the ball over? Can we just move the arm over the Overpass and drop it? Just curious and i haven't heard anything about it.
No, you would not receive points for this. You can not be in control of the ball as it passes over the line.
Jacob
No, you would not receive points for this. You can not be in control of the ball as it passes over the line.
JacobThere is some debate about this--for one thing, the animation disagrees (but that happened several times). For crossing, you are correct. For hurdling, we need clarification.
No, you would not receive points for this. You can not be in control of the ball as it passes over the line.
Jacob
The way I read the rules, the "no possessing ball while scoring" rule only applies to the two points for crossing the line, not the six point bonus for hurdling. I could be wrong, but I think you would recieve 6 points for this.
Billfred
07-01-2008, 01:03
No, you would not receive points for this. You can not be in control of the ball as it passes over the line.
Jacob
There is some debate about this--for one thing, the animation disagrees (but that happened several times). For crossing, you are correct. For hurdling, we need clarification.
The way I read the rules, the "no possessing ball while scoring" rule only applies to the two points for crossing the line, not the six point bonus for hurdling. I could be wrong, but I think you would recieve 6 points for this.Here's what I found in the manual:
HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS
and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.
CROSSING: The act of a TRCKBALL or ROBOT passing through the plane defined by a line (i.e.
LANE MARKER or FINISH LINE) when it is projected vertically upwards. A TRACKBALL or
ROBOT shall have CROSSED a line when all parts of the object, while traveling in a counter-
clockwise direction, have completely passed through the plane.
It appears that your arm placement relative to the finish line is irrelevant when hurdling (as long as you follow the other rules).
David Brinza
07-01-2008, 01:39
Kinda like trying to punch a pillow across the room?
Uberbots
07-01-2008, 02:21
our piston attempt (with our strongest piston mind you) sent our mentors further than the ball, so this probably isnt a great idea.
however, maybe if you held the ball while applying the piston, the released the hold? would the elastic properties of the ball propel it?
mbeardsworth
07-01-2008, 02:24
We're looking into the possibility that a spring might work. Ideally there will be a whole lap to charge it up.
AdamHeard
07-01-2008, 02:39
Keep in mind the amount of energy required just to launch the 10 pound ball 6.5' into the air. I don't think that much energy can be safely be released at once on a FIRST robot.
David Brinza
07-01-2008, 02:43
Keep in mind the amount of energy required just to launch the 10 pound ball 6.5' into the air. I don't think that much energy can be safely be released at once on a FIRST robot.
But maybe for 2-3 ft??
But maybe for 2-3 ft??
Can you say motor driven catapault?
I dunno, two fisherprices and two CIM's might launch the thing pretty far.
-vivek
RyanCahoon
07-01-2008, 06:20
I ran the numbers (taking into account both elastic losses and air friction) to launch the ball 3.5 feet straight up in the air (i.e. from the top of a 3 foot robot. I'm not sure if you'd want this much force higher up) and while it would work theoretically with a 2 inch bore, 12 inch throw cylinder, the tanks would have to be fully charged to 60 psi....each time. And this is even launching it straight up, somehow relying on the robot's momentum to supply enough horizontal velocity. It doesn't seem like a reasonable design to me.
--Ryan
I believe that a lifter and then some sort of pneumatic piston setup which launches it a few inches would be best.
i.e. an elevator that lifted it up above the overpass and then a piston makes it roll over the over pass.
-vivek
GaryVoshol
07-01-2008, 06:53
Here's what I found in the manual:
HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS
and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.
CROSSING: The act of a TRCKBALL or ROBOT passing through the plane defined by a line (i.e.
LANE MARKER or FINISH LINE) when it is projected vertically upwards. A TRACKBALL or
ROBOT shall have CROSSED a line when all parts of the object, while traveling in a counter-
clockwise direction, have completely passed through the plane.
It appears that your arm placement relative to the finish line is irrelevant when hurdling (as long as you follow the other rules).
That's true. But then we have
<G11> Each TRACKBALL that HURDLES its own FINISH LINE will earn 8 points (2 points for CROSSING the FINISH LINE – re Rule <G10> - and a 6 point bonus, yielding 8 points total).
Does that imply a valid "CROSS" must be done to get the 2 points? Another question when Q&A gets up.
I believe that a lifter and then some sort of pneumatic piston setup which launches it a few inches would be best.
i.e. an elevator that lifted it up above the overpass and then a piston makes it roll over the over pass.
-vivek
Yeah, we are thinking bout an elevator based on pneumatics...
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