Update #6

[EricH]

Update 6 has been released and can be found here: http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Community/FRC/FRC_Documents_and_Updates/2008_Assets/Team_Updates/Team%20Update%206.pdf

Section 3 has been changed, and all teams with launchers and/or hybrid receivers should read the updated rules.

[dtengineering]

Gee... we can't test our launcher in our pit?

Jason

[Jonathan Norris]

Gee... we can't test our launcher in our pit?

Jason

Well I wouldn't want to be he first team to launch a track ball into another teams pit... there is a reason they provide practice fields (now lets just hope all the regionals have practice fields....)

[lukevanoort]

Hmm, this puts us in a odd area of the rules (I won't say gray because it is very clear, I just think that the intent and letter of the rules are very different in our situation). Our launching mechanism has a few other functions which would pose no danger to test in the pit, but since it is the same mechanism we can't do that. Other than that, I can't complain about anything in it; all of the changes make sense.

[Matt H.]

Perhaps more interesting is the notice that the broken gear tooth sensors will be repaired and how to obtain such services.

[GaryVoshol]

Since a team at GLR (which shall remain nameless to protect the innocent) managed to launch Poof Balls directly at the inspection station, I think the "no launching" rule is a good one.

[Éowyn]

"Trackballs must be stored within the confines of the team's pit space"??

This should prove most interesting.

[David]

The storing trackballs in the pit area might prove challenging. our pit is only 120 by 120 inches (being generous), but the trackball is 40 inches in diameter, a full third of the length and width and a ninth of the total space. I would say store it overhead, but the height limit doesn't enough space to do that easily either.

[Richard Wallace]

The storing trackballs in the pit area might prove challenging. our pit is only 120 by 120 inches (being generous), but the trackball is 40 inches in diameter, a full third of the length and width and a ninth of the total space. I would say store it overhead, but the height limit doesn't enough space to do that easily either.Remember that pit height is limited to 10 ft. also. If you have a pit storage/display structure that uses all of the height allowed, you could hang a trackball in a net while it is not in use. There would be room for shorter team members to stand under it.

Hmm, might be better just to deflate trackballs that aren't being used.

[synth3tk]

Depending on space allocation for the regional space, there could be a central trackball storage area that teams could place their ball, provided the number or name was Sharpie'd onto it.

[thefro526]

Or just have a few community trackballs i.e. patched or damaged one not used on the field. I could see grabbing three or four that can't be used on the field to stash at the pit admin station and you could borrow them like you would reserve time on the field

[Richard Wallace]

Depending on space allocation for the regional space, there could be a central trackball storage area that teams could place their ball, provided the number or name was Sharpie'd onto it.Our regional has 45 teams registered. By stacking trackballs three high, we could store all 45 balls in the space required for five teams' pits. But we don't have that space.

If our regional venue did have that much extra space, I'd have preferred to let five more teams register.

[lukevanoort]

Our regional has 45 teams registered. By stacking trackballs three high, we could store all 45 balls in the space required for five teams' pits. But we don't have that space.

If our regional venue did have that much extra space, I'd have preferred to let five more teams register.
How about in the stands? At the events I have been to (admittedly not many), there has always been a significant amount of space wasted by seating that is far away from the field. It may not be realistic for the 60+ team events, but I think you could store 45 trackballs in excess seating (of course that depends on the venue).

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Did I read that right? Bumpers are required for practice matches prior to being inspected? So my robot can practice and be in noncompliance with just about everything, but at least there will be no damage when it goes haywire and bumps into everything. I guess its not that big of a deal since we have to have them for any regular match anyway...but I'm still not a fan of mandatory bumpers.

Also, maybe I just missed it in the manual, but is this the first mention of a roster form? Not a big deal, just surprised to see it. A subtle reminder that we live in the world of today.

[Scott Carpman]

I like the community trackball idea. One trackball could be available for every 5 teams at the regional, and they can be all in one central storage area. The trackball storage could be right next to the designated practice zone for easy access.

[AustinSchuh]

Another way to do this would be to talk to the teams around you in the pit and then share 1 trackball among a couple of teams. FIRST would then not need to arrange this, but we could still benefit from the extra space. You could store it in between the pits so that it is not filling up one team's space, or move it around thought the day when someone needs the space and another team doesn't.

[Mr. Freeman]

Well I wouldn't want to be he first team to launch a track ball into another teams pit...

I'm reminded of 2006 with the poof balls. I was in the pit working on something when my team decided to power on the bot to begin testing the auton code. (I don't remember what we were looking for at the time to be honest). Anyway, the way our code worked was that it would run the tracks to drive out and then shoot the balls in an arc (kind of like dead-reckoning + spray the balls everywhere in an attempt to hit at least one in).

Well, it turns on and the tracks go (it's on blocks so it doesn't actually go anywhere), it was about then that I realized that there were poof balls in the robot. I make this mad dash/dive across the pit screaming "TURN IT OFF TURN IT OFF IT'S GONNA..." *poof*. I manage to stop the second one from firing, but the first one is already gone. It's making this nice arc across the pit area and my entire team is yelling "HEADS UP/WATCH OUT/OHMYGODWHAT'SITGONNAHIT?!?!". I seriously thought we had probably destroyed something.

The good news is that the team's pit that we hit was one of those teams that likes to bring in those camping-shelter things that acts kind of like a roof with no walls. They attached cloths to the top and let them drape down to act as walls. This stopped the ball perfectly. No injuries or damage. (We sent someone over to make sure)

Needless to say, we double checked that there were no poof balls loaded when we tested it from then on. I can't even imagine what would happen if something like a trackball came flying into a pit.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I have to say that the rule about practice area is what I had hoped for and expected. With the number of teams here on CD, expressing a desire to include a "launcher" in their design, I shuddered at the thought of these devices being tested in a pit with other folks close by. I expect that a future update will also include a mandatory demo of the launcher as part of the inspection process.

[Jimmy Nichols]

I have to say that the rule about practice area is what I had hoped for and expected. With the number of teams here on CD, expressing a desire to include a "launcher" in their design, I shuddered at the thought of these devices being tested in a pit with other folks close by. I expect that a future update will also include a mandatory demo of the launcher as part of the inspection process.

I could see this happening. They tested the shooters 2 years ago, if you appeared to exceed the limit.

[GaryVoshol]

How about in the stands? At the events I have been to (admittedly not many), there has always been a significant amount of space wasted by seating that is far away from the field. It may not be realistic for the 60+ team events, but I think you could store 45 trackballs in excess seating (of course that depends on the venue).You haven't been to Detroit, have you?

[johnr]

can see it now. 45 or more balls in upper venue seats. people trying to spell things out with them. might be pretty cool.

[MrForbes]

We are building a shooter, and I can't imagine any reason why we would want or need a track ball in our pit, or would want to try to launch one in our pit.

I guess if you are building a robot that grips the ball, then you might need one for adjusting things, but then you'd also probably be depending on the trackballs all being the same size/inflation? which is unlikely.

I have a feeling that this game is going to be difficult to demonstrate when we take the robot around to different places to show it off after the season ends :)

[JaneYoung]

I have a feeling that this game is going to be difficult to demonstrate when we take the robot around to different places to show it off after the season ends :)

I've been thinking that for quite a while but I'm also in the wait and see mode.

Basically, I can't wait to see this game played out!

[jacob07]

Well i can see were this rule is coming from, but i still think it is kinda silly. Teams should have the common sense to make sure that everyone and anyone who is around there pits is kept safe. Just like walking the robot to the field and back to the pits. You should have safety precautions to make sure that your robot is not in anyway dangering others while testing there robot's launcher. I know you could test your robot in the practice field, but at times its not practical if you just want a quick test before a match.

[dlavery]

I have a feeling that this game is going to be difficult to demonstrate when we take the robot around to different places to show it off after the season ends :)

I have been playing the fun little movie in my head for a while now. "Hi Mister Corporate Sponsor! We are here to demonstrate our robot for you and your company before we send it off to the competitions. You know, the one that you helped fund and promote? Well, we really want to show it to you. But it seems that we can't actually fit the game piece through any of the standard doorways in your building. So would you mind bringing all of your senior executives out into the parking lot? We will meet you there. p.s. we note that it is the middle of February, and this is northern Minnesota, and the expected high temperature today is seven degrees below zero. You might want to grab a sweater." :)


-dave




.

[Jon Stratis]

I don't know about you guys, but when we tear down our test track/overpass, we might use the parts to make a giant basketball hoop for our robot to play with at demonstrations... yeah, it might not be the game the robot was designed for, but it's something it could definitely do!

[Jherbie53]

How about in the stands? At the events I have been to (admittedly not many), there has always been a significant amount of space wasted by seating that is far away from the field. It may not be realistic for the 60+ team events, but I think you could store 45 trackballs in excess seating (of course that depends on the venue).

You haven't been to Detroit, have you?

Or West Michigan, there are no seats there on Saturday, or Boilermaker which is also at a smaller venue.

[GaryVoshol]

p.s. we note that it is the middle of February, and this is northern Minnesota, and the expected high temperature today is seven degrees below zero. You might want to grab a sweater." Bah. -7 is a warm day. As long as they have a long sleeve shirt, they'll be fine.

[Bill Moore]

p.s. we note that it is the middle of February, and this is northern Minnesota, and the expected high temperature today is seven degrees below zero. You might want to grab a sweater."


Bah. -7 is a warm day. As long as they have a long sleeve shirt, they'll be fine.

Downright balmy for Minnesota!

[Vikesrock]

Downright balmy for Minnesota!

Unfortunately true right now :( I have to walk to class in a few minutes and the current Wind chill is -23 according to weather.com. I would venture a guess it is worse than that here on campus (wind tends to be stronger here than most other spots in the cities because we're right on the Mississippi).

[Wayne Doenges]

In 2006 we used a fish net to catch all the poof balls we shot, from our robot, in the pits.
Does anyone know where I can find a 50" diameter fish net :ahh:

[Elgin Clock]

Does anyone know where I can find a 50" diameter fish net :ahh:

Somewhere North... near Lake Michigan I'm sure. :p

[Zultraranger]

Update 6 has been released and can be found here: http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Community/FRC/FRC_Documents_and_Updates/2008_Assets/Team_Updates/Team%20Update%206.pdf

Section 3 has been changed, and all teams with launchers and/or hybrid receivers should read the updated rules.
Thanks for the update, btw, nice new picture man.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Does anyone know where I can find a 50" diameter fish net :ahh:
Mine broke pulling in a northern last summer.

[Richard Wallace]

Mine broke pulling in a northern last summer.Al, was that northern really 50" diameter? And was it the one that got away?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Richard,
I don't know how big it was, the net broke and it got away!

[ahecht]

What really worries me is this:
While your robot is in your team’s pit space any hybrid receiver must be disconnected from your robot.

The Molex headers used to attach to the OI are quite fragile and easily bent, and if teams have to unplug them after every match, we could see a lot of teams with bent/broken/loose connectors. Especially for teams that hot glue the PWM connectors together so that one doesn't come unplugged.

I understand the intention, but a properly programmed robot will only listen to the IR board in auto mode, and a robot in the pits should NEVER be in auto mode in the pits unless precautions are taken to make sure that it is absolutely safe no matter what it does (since a freshly programmed auto mode can do anything without warning).

[EricH]

I understand the intention, but a properly programmed robot will only listen to the IR board in auto mode, and a robot in the pits should NEVER be in auto mode in the pits unless precautions are taken to make sure that it is absolutely safe no matter what it does (since a freshly programmed auto mode can do anything without warning).Remember, the Robocoach can control the robot during Teleop mode.