View Full Version : HELP!!! question about inspection
schmidtz
09-02-2008, 12:42
our robot has a metal cover over the entire electronic/motor/gears/everything. we need to know whether or not we will have to take it off for inspection because right now it is riveted to the frame. we could take it off with some force and about 2 hours of work, but we really dont know if it is necessary.
:confused: :eek: :mad: :D
our robot has a metal cover over the entire electronic/motor/gears/everything. we need to know whether or not we will have to take it off for inspection because right now it is riveted to the frame. we could take it off with some force and about 2 hours of work, but we really dont know if it is necessary.
:confused: :eek: :mad: :D
Can you see the RC from three feet in front of the robot? Can an inspector see the breaker panels? Pneumatics? Motors?
If the answer to any of those questions is "No", you will need to at least modify it to allow for seeing through it. Especially the controller; you can't compete at all if you can't see it.
schmidtz
09-02-2008, 12:49
the top is hinged so that people can see into it and mess with stuff but being as it is made of metal you cannot see the stuff when the top is closed
the top is hinged so that people can see into it and mess with stuff but being as it is made of metal you cannot see the stuff when the top is closedHinged so you can see in will probably fly at inspection...but the IFI folks are going to have a hard time seeing the RC through metal. You could probably cut a section out and put lexan or something of that sort in so the controller can be seen.
schmidtz
09-02-2008, 13:24
here are the pics:
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/48d8db80ff.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3da733c66e.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f8842f4cfe.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1bf16bee13.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/086f523946.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Nuttyman54
09-02-2008, 13:43
I recommend you replace those top metal panels with Polycarbonate (Lexan, etc). That should be sufficient to pass inspection and keep them visible pre-match.
Yeah... You look like a BattleBot with all that metal. The top should be Lexan; more than that probably won't be necessary to change. (And it's a relatively quick change--get the metal off, and then use virtually the same attachment to put the Lexan on.
TubaMorg
09-02-2008, 22:01
You do need to put a window in the top. It should be strong enough. Very nice skin though!
dtengineering
09-02-2008, 23:01
You may want to check out your radio range, too. The radios are usually pretty good... but you have placed yours inside a big conductive box!
If you don't want to pull the "lid" from your robot, you could cut a window in in and cover the window in with lexan so that you can see the RC from 3' in front of the robot when it is in it's starting configuration.
I like the look of this machine, though!
Jason
P.S. If you haven't already done so, don't forget to think about how you will access various components for repair during competition.
Al Skierkiewicz
09-02-2008, 23:32
I agree with the posts thus far and to reiterate...
<R72> The Robot Controller must be positioned within the ROBOT so that its indicator lights can be seen during inspection and when standing three feet in front of the ROBOT while the ROBOT is in the STARTING CONFIGURATION at the beginning of a MATCH. This will greatly facilitate analysis in case of problems.
As Jason has pointed out, your modem is your link during match play. To hide it behind sheet metal will cause loss of data and possible loss of handshake. In spite of the obvious external antenna, there is also an internal antenna. Remember this is a two way device, so there is a transmit and receive antenna. The modem should be mounted in a mostly vertical position to keep the same polarization as the field modems and away from large pieces of metal if at all possible.
I also noticed the 9 volt battery in your pictures...
<R43> The only legal main source of electrical energy on the ROBOT during the competition is the 12VDC non-spillable lead acid battery provided in the 2008 Kit Of Parts.
and
<R45> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
Primary 12v batteries different from those provided in the Kit Of Parts (i.e. manufacturer and part number must be the same as those provided in the Kit Of Parts)
More than one primary battery, or more than one back-up battery
One last thing, I will be looking for sharp edges that may puncture people or playing field objects. So be ready to have all the edges checked over during inspection. I like the nice big window for the main breaker. Field personnel will be very happy if you identify it's location on the top and back of the robot. Don't forget your team numbers and school name and sponsors.
This is a very impressive robot for a rookie team. Congratulations!
Hope this helps.
schmidtz
09-02-2008, 23:51
thank you all soooo much.... you guys are awesome
TubaMorg
09-02-2008, 23:56
Speaking of 9v battery (as pointed out you can't use it), your IR reciever is going to have difficulties hidden in the box too...
schmidtz
10-02-2008, 00:00
the IR board is mounted temporarily, in the finished one it will be mounted underneath the Lexan cover...
speaking of that, will we be able to get a signal through lexan?
TubaMorg
10-02-2008, 00:08
That's a good question. My guess is lexan won't block IR, but it should be easy enough for you to test. My instinct tells me it wouldn't be a good idea, because depending on angle your signal my reflect rather than pass through (like visible light).
Rosiebotboss
10-02-2008, 11:53
Just a quick look from me and the first thing I noticed is the angle of the front and rear panels. From the floor to 8" up, the robot and frame shall be vertical within 10 degrees. (Not including bumpers.) Are they within 10 degrees?
Team numbers and weight also come into question immediately. Maybe it just looks heavy.
schmidtz
10-02-2008, 12:20
118 pounds with bumpers but without the battery:eek:
my team still wants to add an arm to the front
yes... im worrying
Vikesrock
10-02-2008, 12:27
If your arm weighs within 2 lbs of what your bumpers do you'll be fine on weight. Bumpers and the 12V battery both don't count towards weight.
Just a quick look from me and the first thing I noticed is the angle of the front and rear panels. From the floor to 8" up, the robot and frame shall be vertical within 10 degrees. (Not including bumpers.) Are they within 10 degrees?Not necessarily; only parts of the robot that may contact other robots are subject to that restriction. Bumpers should make that body legal.
Not necessarily; only parts of the robot that may contact other robots are subject to that restriction. Bumpers should make that body legal.That's not what the rule says.<R19> "Wedge” ROBOTS are not be permitted. ROBOTS shall be designed so that interaction with opposing ROBOTS results in pushing rather than tipping or lifting. Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed. All parts of a ROBOT between 0 and 8.5 inches from the ground (the top of the BUMPER ZONE) that are used to push against or interact with an opposing ROBOT must be within 10 degrees of vertical. Devices deployed outside the ROBOT footprint should be designed to avoid wedging. If a mechanism or an appendage (e.g. a harvester for retrieving GAME PIECES) becomes a wedge that interferes with other ROBOTS, penalties, disabling, or disqualification can occur depending on the severity of the infraction. (emphasis mine) The bumpers are part of the robot, right? They are used to push against or interact with other robots, right?
Vikesrock
10-02-2008, 15:47
That's not what the rule says. (emphasis mine) The bumpers are part of the robot, right? They are used to push against or interact with other robots, right?
Right. So bumpers that are within 10 degrees of vertical attached to that robot frame such that none of the angled frame sections would be used to push against or interact with another robot should make the robot conform to the rules.
Right. So bumpers that are within 10 degrees of vertical attached to that robot frame such that none of the angled frame sections would be used to push against or interact with another robot should make the robot conform to the rules.Of course, the bumpers and lower frame are vertical...the only two places where there might be an issue are on the front and back.
Russ Beavis
10-02-2008, 15:58
Don't forget about the holder for the bicycle flag.
Russ Beavis
Chief Inspector
GaryVoshol
10-02-2008, 19:09
The bumpers look low, too. They must be completely in the bumper zone, 2.5 to 8.5 inches from the ground. These look lower than 2.5".
Rosiebotboss
10-02-2008, 20:08
Of course, the bumpers and lower frame are vertical...the only two places where there might be an issue are on the front and back.
The bumper rule also states that only 2/3 of the robot must be covered by bumper. 3 sides of a robots equals 3/4 of the perimeter. Now, 3/4 is greater than 2/3. Who's to say that this team is not going out for a match with the front bumper off? They meet the 2/3 bumper rule, right? I would have to require that they compete with the FRONT bumper ON AT ALL TIMES. And the Head Referee would be notified.
This discussion can be avoided, of course, if the team can PROVE to the Inspector that they are less than 10 degrees from vertical. Bring a protractor and square to the Regional.
Fab.Master
10-02-2008, 20:35
3 sides of a robots equals 3/4 of the perimeter.
that formula does not work on rectangular bots, only square:D
that formula does not work on rectangular bots, only square:DTake an end off a rectangular robot, and you have more than 3/4 of the perimeter. Just don't take both ends.
(Oh, and if it works on square robots, it works on rectangular robots--a square is a particular type of rectangle:D.)
Rosiebotboss
10-02-2008, 20:46
that formula does not work on rectangular bots, only square:D
38+38+28+28=132
(132/4)*3=99
(132/3)*2=88
On a FIRST robot no matter which way you drive it, 3 sides covered with bumper is greater than 2/3 of the available linear inches. (Assuming that the robot is 38x28 and the bumper is the full length of its respective side)
schmidtz
10-02-2008, 23:28
well it looks like this is going to be a long week....
but we do plan to always have the front bumpers on so it looks like we should be OK
the bumpers only look lower than 2.5" because of the angle of the pictures, they really arent that low
Right. So bumpers that are within 10 degrees of vertical attached to that robot frame such that none of the angled frame sections would be used to push against or interact with another robot should make the robot conform to the rules.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. My team is actually planning to use a similar system, so good luck to you :)
Jimmy Nichols
11-02-2008, 07:02
What is the height from the floor to the bottom of your bumpers. They look too low to me. Bumpers need to be mounted between 2.5 and 8.5 inches.
schmidtz
11-02-2008, 08:59
I had thought you were all crazy telling me the bumpers are too low, then i measured......:eek:
but thanks for the heads up anywho
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