View Full Version : 2008 Ultimate Alliance
Jaybee1405
05-03-2008, 20:03
What alliance of any three robots would be absolutely unbeatable this year? I know it's only week 2 but this is based on what we've seen so far.
Mine would be 217, 1114, and 118. Maybe 58, 118, and 121?
Who is your ultimate alliance??
Tottanka
05-03-2008, 20:05
i think that the ultimate alliance has to include 3 hurdlers, just in case one gets blocked all the time.
For know, mine is 1114, 16 and 217. (if 217 and 16 improve their hybrid)
By what i can see, 330 could easily replace any of those, but i haven't seen it yet
Danny McC
05-03-2008, 20:06
I'd like to see what it would be like if 816, 1114, and 103 were on an alliance. I can only dream.
fredliu168
05-03-2008, 20:09
1114, 103, 1625
Grant Cox
05-03-2008, 20:13
Edit: nevermind. 931, 217, 288. Green aah-liii-aance :)
121, 1519, 1565 (us)!! only because we all look the same and have different drive systems XD
Kellen Hill
05-03-2008, 20:24
Personally, I think you should go with to fast hurdlers and the fastest lap bot ever. They should all have good hybrid modes and even a defensive hybrid thrown in there. These are the alliances you will see do well in coming regionals and nats.
I really enjoyed watching 1114's alliance at Midwest. They had excellent strategy and had 2041 bring the 2nd ball around while 1114 had the other, and 1114 would hurdle the 1st ball and turn around and take the ball 2041 had left there and hurdle it. I thought this was a great idea and use of the 3rd robot on a team.
Dan Petrovic
05-03-2008, 20:31
1114, 217, and 148
Personally, I'm going to see how the rest of the regionals pan out. Don't worry I'll come back to this.:D
MegaSparks
05-03-2008, 20:35
You are all looking to the past. What about the teams who have action plans in place to either improve to or to exceed the levels of the best robots out there? The best teams never settle for the status quo, but keep looking for that edge that will turn a good robot into a great robot. The students of 2062 have taken on an ambitious improvement schedule that when complete could push that team up to where the Chickens are or beyond.
We will have to wait and see but I know these young men can turn this bot around into a great one. Yes, it will be a bit of a time crunch doing all the work at the regional but we have come through in the past and will this year also. Wisconsin regional here we come!!!
thefro526
05-03-2008, 20:39
Personally I'd love to see 71,118,148 vs. 1114,217, 330. That'd be an epic match...
Sgraff_SRHS06
05-03-2008, 20:55
This match gets my popcorn poppin' based on the regionals so far! :D
1114 217 449 vs 103 118 1980
The Sim-Chicken-Robot Project vs the Cybersonic Robo Brigade
39, 1114, 118
or
39, 1726, 842, this might actully happen in AZ
s_forbes
05-03-2008, 21:25
39, 1726, 842, this might actully happen in AZ
haha, I really hope so, that would be quite epic!
I think any alliance that has 1114 and 217 paired up will have a very good chance of winning just about any match they play. 1024 would be a good third, they seem very capable of doing anything that is required of them (hurdling, lapping, racking up points in auto, etc.) Keep in mind that we still haven't seen the pink robot or the 254/968 robots yet!
As for ultimate cool robot alliance: 1501, 16, and 148. I would seriously love to see that.
Andy Baker
05-03-2008, 21:37
Edit: nevermind. 931, 217, 288. Green aah-liii-aance :)
Grant... your dream came true in St. Louis.
Qualification Match 62 had the red alliance looking all green, as you can see here (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/match.php?matchid=5269) on The Blue Alliance.
Andy B.
Mike Harrison
05-03-2008, 21:42
Grant... your dream came true in St. Louis.
Qualification Match 62 had the red alliance looking all green, as you can see here (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/match.php?matchid=5269) on The Blue Alliance.
Andy B.
Coolest match i ever played in... all you could hear from that stands was "GREEEN ALLIANCE!!"
Laaba 80
05-03-2008, 21:47
1114, 118, and 1024
Joey
39, 1726, 842, this might actully happen in AZ
Too bad it's impossible for three teams all in the top 8 to pair up ;)
It's far too early to cast my vote for ultimate alliance yet, I think I'll need to see how the other 5 weeks of Regionals play out first. I do believe it will be a shooter, arm, and herder/racer alliance though.
It's too early. Maybe around Week 3, I'll weigh in. Actually...Hold that, between the last week of regionals and the Championship.
MasterChief 573
06-03-2008, 08:21
As of now I'd have to say 1114, 573, and 148 but that could change.
Since 217 and 1114 are both able to scoop the ball up immediately after hurdling, a 3rd hurdler might be ineffective. I would think they would rather have a racebot like 148 as their 3rd partner.
seraphim33
06-03-2008, 10:18
from wat i have seen so far i think that 217...111....and...either of the martians(70 or 494) would dominate overdrive
cricket66
06-03-2008, 12:45
You all forgot the ultimate sleeper who can do everything well 2062
Alan Anderson
06-03-2008, 13:01
You all forgot the ultimate sleeper who can do everything well 2062
Perhaps so, but the question is not about individual teams. It's about alliances. What generally wins competitions is not a robot's ability to "do everything", but the team's ability to work effectively with others.
Doing everything well is often less effective than doing one or two things exceptionally well. The RoboChickenPack alliance at St. Louis had a team with exceptional speed and agility, a team with exceptional ball-handling ability, and a team with exceptional tactical skills. They won against alliances with very good robots that individually did everything well...just not as exceptionally well.
Nawaid Ladak
06-03-2008, 13:12
1114 1024 and 103
i wonder if 2056 is any good this year, 1114 and 2056 complemented each other to form an almost unstopable alliance (3 contests won, only 3 losses during elims, Waterloo Finals match 1, GTR semi's match 2, and IRI, i think Quarterfinals.)
check back with me tomorrow, i might have a totally diffrent alliance...
Just a friendly reminder...
Plugging your own team for the ultimate alliance is like saying that your report is the best in the class and should get an A just because you wrote it. Neither is necessarily true. If you haven't competed yet, you're self-grading the report before the teacher does--and if you've seen "A Christmas Story", you know what can happen with that.
I'm not saying that you don't have the best robot, I'm saying that you'll need to show that it deserves a place on the Ultimate Alliance.
Tom Bottiglieri
06-03-2008, 13:17
1114, Team X, Team Y
Break out your lotto number drawing machines because it just doesn't matter.
Kellen Hill
06-03-2008, 14:06
I would go with 1114, 16, and 148 for my week 1 alliance. Two of the best hurdlers of week 1 and one of the fastest lap bots of week 1. There still plenty of regionals left and I am sure more great bots will emerge as the weeks go on.
1114, Team X, Team Y
Break out your lotto number drawing machines because it just doesn't matter.
It most certainly does matter, the 2nd alliance at MWR played very close matches against the 3rd alliance, even defeating them once.
Jaybee1405
06-03-2008, 20:54
Dang I just looked at my original post and I accidentaly wrote 118 for my first ultimate alliance. I meant 148 the robowranglers.
So mine would be 217, 1114, and 148.
Scott Carpman
06-03-2008, 21:09
Way too early to tell. I'll weigh in during Week 7.
efoote868
06-03-2008, 22:10
I'd like to see some robots play catch. Get my team, another catapult and a team that could dampen the ball. Get the 2 balls flying around the field so fast the refs won't be able to count it.
So, anyone know of another quick catapult? :P
andrew348
06-03-2008, 22:59
From what I saw last week, mine is
1114, 121, and 25. But, this will all change in the coming weeks.
Corey Oostveen
06-03-2008, 23:14
Coolest match i ever played in... all you could hear from that stands was "GREEEN ALLIANCE!!"
I have to admit that was my favorite match!! Extremely fun to play in. Really enjoyed working with you guys!!!!!!!!
Heh, noticing any trends in the choices? I'd say 80%+ of the posts in this thread mention 1114, 217, or both.
I sent our lead mentor the video of QF4.1 (i think) from MWR, with 1114 scoring about 7 hurdles... he's been having nightmares since everywhere we compete, we compete against them... (or hopefully WITH them).
Vince lau
07-03-2008, 09:27
1114,217,1625
sim-chicken-ovation
1114,217,16
the sim chicken squad
based on week 1
Aren_Hill
07-03-2008, 10:31
You all forgot the ultimate sleeper who can do everything well 2062
Believe me you'll have to prove yourself to get mentioned by another team in this thread, i'm surprised my teams been mentioned after not to good of a show at chicago.
but when you see a well respected person from an elite team mention your robot as part of the "ultimate" alliance the recognition is a great feeling.
so prove yourself worthy :]
Dominicano0519
07-03-2008, 11:05
hey i have on question what type of alliance is the utlimate
three hurdlers all fast
or two hurdlers one lapbot
hey i have on question what type of alliance is the utlimate
three hurdlers all fast
or two hurdlers one lapbot
From what I have witnessed, 2 epic hurdlers and 1 very quick lapbot seem to do the best. But if you have 3 hurdlers that are all fast, designating one of them as a lap bot will also work. That's what we did at MWR and it worked very well.
of course, having 3 swerves didn't hurt :cool:
Dominicano0519
07-03-2008, 14:12
From what I have witnessed, 2 epic hurdlers and 1 very quick lapbot seem to do the best. But if you have 3 hurdlers that are all fast, designating one of them as a lap bot will also work. That's what we did at MWR and it worked very well.
yeah that was my original idea, three hurdlers all really fast could do the same job and on top of that if one of them breaks down its a realitively small loss becuase the desinated lap bot could just start hurdling.
however the only disadvantage i can find(its not too big either) to having another hurdler is that you would have another tall obstruction of your view while trying to hurdle; meanwhile if you had a small low lapbot you could easily just bob and weave through jams and no matter what happens you can easily rack up points and to the hurdlers there will only be 4 other bots in their way instead of 5
Heretic121
07-03-2008, 14:26
The ultimate alliance is as follows...
the ulitmate hurderler... aka 1114, 118... a fast team w/ easy pick up, great drivers, and easy hurdeling...
the ulitmate hybrid placers... aka a team who can knock off the ball in hybrid + pass 2-5 lines in hybrid as well as hurdling + placing during the match... *40, 126 from who i've seen...
The ulitmate hurdler/placer... this would be a team such as 121, 1519 who can do 2-4 lines in auto then during tele-op can hurdle 4+ times a match as well as do fast laps and be able to place on the overpass no matter what side of the field they are on...
So in the end its 3 hurdling teams with 2 placer bots, and all 3 bots doing 2-5 lines in auto and knocking at least 1 ball off if not both...
=D
cziggy343
07-03-2008, 17:03
stricly from week one...
1114- speed and ease with hurdling
121- hurdle a good amount of times, and can place at the end
148- very quick lap runner (b/c there are only two balls anyway)
my $0.02
1114 just dominates.
30-40 points in hybrid and 5-7 hurdle is 100 point only by 1 team
not many matches excluding 1114 go up to 100
chaoticprout
23-03-2008, 20:11
Unrealistic: 1114, 330, and 148 (if they added a knocker)
Realistic: 1114, 330, and any team that can knock but won't get penalties.
1114-best launcher out there
1124-Strongest arm bot I have seen, and a very strong placer
148-I am convinced that the winning alliance will have a pure speed-bot, and this is the strongest I have seen yet.
Other contenders
111
71
217
1024
nikeairmancurry
23-03-2008, 20:21
The Winning Alliance from Waterloo is my pick, but 1114 is good with anyone.. I hope that at Atlanta they are in myt divison and hopefully can pick us..:) (I was Dreaming of course)..
But other good alliance could be 71 and 217 with a fast robot ( could be us)
But you could slide numerous amount of fast teams in their but....
1114 and 217 with anyone fast aginast 71 and 2171 with someone fast..I'd pay to see a best of 7-with them..
ajisjesus
23-03-2008, 20:23
did any one watch SVR? i mean how could you forget about the greatest blue alliance ever??!?!??!?!
2024 192 and 8!!!!
haha jk but thanks again 192 and 8 :D
Matthew2c4u
23-03-2008, 20:29
330,987,968
What people on this thread seem to be missing is the inevitable outcome of defense. At the moment people seem to be scared of it and some teams are not even playing it and just running laps. If you watch the matches with scores in the 120s and above defense is almost unseen.
The only regional i really saw any defense was Florida and from that you can see what just playing keep-away with a ball can do to shut down a good hurdler.(especially launchers)
anyways back on topic I believe that the ultimate alliance is going to be one who has 2 (or 3) good hurdlers and one that can herd (the opponents) ball and has a good drive train for pushing matches and blocking.
smurfgirl
23-03-2008, 20:33
1124-Strongest arm bot I have seen, and a very strong placer
Wow- very cool to see my own team on someone's list. We said at the beginning of the season, "we're good at arm robots; let's build one". I guess it worked?
Here's my choice for the ultimate alliance of 2008. In no particular order:
I'd have to put team 1024 in the ultimate alliance- they didn't win three regionals for nothing. Obviously they are a strong robot and work well with other teams.
I'll also add 1114- they are also a very strong robot, with a regional win to attest to that. They have a great hybrid mode, too.
And how could the ultimate alliance of 2008 be complete without 217? They also have two regional wins this year to speak to their great robot and partnership skills. They're experienced, and consistently good.
So what does that make this alliance? The SimChickenBytes?
Can't wait for Atlanta to find out!
NoahTheBoa
23-03-2008, 20:33
330,987,968
They are all great teams, but you really only need 2 hurdlers in an alliance.
I think 330, 968, and a lap bot vs. 1114, 217, and a lap bot would be intense.
987 and 1717 should also be considered.
thefro526
23-03-2008, 20:37
1114,1024,217. I know I chose three hurdlers but, should someone break there are still 2 hurdles left. Also 1114's auto is the best I've seen yet, and If i remember right 1024 and 217 have kick butt auto's as well so they might set an Auto record. Also this alliance may be capable of breaking the 200 point barrier.
1114,1024,217
that would be scary.....and awesome. depending on which side you are on...
lukevanoort
23-03-2008, 20:58
As it stands right now, my ultimate alliance is 1114, 330, and 148. If 1726 can upgrade their hybrid to be more competitive with 148's, I would go with 1114, 330, and 1726 due to 1726's considerable prowess at knocking off balls (especially compared to 148's lack of any knock-off mechanism). If 1625 can chase out the mechanical gremlins, I would go with 1114, 1625, and 1726/148.
Hmm maybe I shouldn't post my own team but whatever.
My ultimate alliance: 1114 , 1126 and 2228.
Hmmm I wonder why the first 2 teams sound sooo familiar :yikes:
Laaba 80
23-03-2008, 21:05
1114,1024,217. I know I chose three hurdlers but, should someone break there are still 2 hurdles left.
I see nothing wrong with 3 hurdlers. You just need to designate 2 of the robots as the "primary hurdlers". If one of those two misses picking up a ball, the third robot could pick it up and hurdle it. I think it would be perfect with three fast hurdlers, because if they thaught it would be hard to get to the ball, they could just pass it up and let the other teammate take it.
Here is my updated alliances:
1114, another great hurdler, 1024
I think 1024 could fill that 3rd hurdler position well if they had 2 other great hurdlers with them. They can knock the ball off the overpass extremely well, and can hurdle better than most, however they are not the best I have seen. Not taking anything away from their hurdler, I just think others can do better, and that the speed of the robot could fit the speedster/backup hurdler role perfectly. They are also a good group to work with. I got to work with them in a match once, and it was a great time. They definately deserved to win three regionals, great job!
Joey
I am surprised that nobody mentioned the two west coast teams: 100 and 254.
waialua359
23-03-2008, 21:11
You may get a glimpse of it in Hawaii this weekend, week 5, as many of the "top tier" teams will be competing.
Just to name a few.
254, 968, 25, 233, 337, 368 (all of whom are 2008 gold winners after week 3). If teams like 330, 103, 987 and others ever decided to come in '09 with the same group as '08, that would be scary.
Other regional finalists/winners from '07 and '08: 1138, 597, 2024, and 359 attending. There are no slouches for all of the veteran teams participating.:D
byrnedfish
23-03-2008, 21:13
Hmm maybe I shouldn't post my own team but whatever.
My ultimate alliance: 1114 , 1126 and 2228.
Hmmm I wonder why the first 2 teams sound sooo familiar :yikes:
that is very humbling as a member of 2228, did u mean 1024 though instead of 1114? otherwise it doesn't sound familiar to me
and great semifinals match at buckeye, truely the best match ive seen this year, even if we did lose!! congrats on the win
Laaba 80
23-03-2008, 21:15
that is very humbling as a member of 2228, did u mean 1024 though?
and great semifinals match at buckeye, truely the best match ive seen this year, even if we did lose!! congrats on the win
I felt bad for you guys when you got ran over by 1024, but honestly it was one of the coolest plays I have seen this year.
Joey
byrnedfish
23-03-2008, 21:18
I felt bad for you guys when you got ran over by 1024, but honestly it was one of the coolest plays I have seen this year.
Joey
haha, no hard feelings, we went airborn!!! one of the first flying robots!!
Jonathan Norris
23-03-2008, 21:22
1114, 217, 148
I picked 148 over 1024 basically because the reason to choose 1024 is for their killer hybrid... so why not just pick 148. 1114, and 217 are much better hurdlers, and no need for a third when you have these two controlling the balls. I could put 118, 330, 233, 254, 968, 987, 2056 or any of the other top hurdlers there instead of 217. But so far 217 has put up the second best hurdling numbers (haven't seen any 4th week stats yet).
Ericgehrken
23-03-2008, 21:25
1124 (Winners of CT) Undefeated 6 Hurdles per match, 1114, and the experience of 71.
Brad Voracek
23-03-2008, 21:26
1114, 330, 1024.
Amazing.
smurfgirl
23-03-2008, 21:26
1114,1024,217. I know I chose three hurdlers but, should someone break there are still 2 hurdles left. Also 1114's auto is the best I've seen yet, and If i remember right 1024 and 217 have kick butt auto's as well so they might set an Auto record. Also this alliance may be capable of breaking the 200 point barrier.
I picked the same three teams as you- I agree on the "in case someone breaks" logic. Besides, to be a good hurdler, you have to be quick. These robots can all do quick laps.
Tom Bottiglieri
23-03-2008, 21:36
I doubt an alliance without 3 hurdlers will make it very far on Einstein.
Danny McC
23-03-2008, 21:38
I think three hurdlers would do good. Especially if one of the hurdlers was fast and could do laps. But they would also have to be an effecient hurdler if for some reason one of their alliance members was having an off match.
MrForbes
23-03-2008, 21:49
Having watched both 39 and 330 dominate different regionals, I would put them on a similar level...and give the hurdling edge to 39, ball pickup is probably a tie, ball removal/placing would go to 330.
Sadly our shooter just doesn't have enough distance.
You may get a glimpse of it in Hawaii this weekend, week 5, as many of the "top tier" teams will be competing.
Just to name a few.
254, 968, 25, 233, 337, 368 (all of whom are 2008 gold winners after week 3). If teams like 330, 103, 987 and others ever decided to come in '09 with the same group as '08, that would be scary.
Other regional finalists/winners from '07 and '08: 1138, 597, 2024, and 359 attending. There are no slouches for all of the veteran teams participating.:D
Glenn,
How many regionals do the Hawaiian kids go to? :ahh:
CurseofDragon33
23-03-2008, 22:23
1126, 1629, and 148
My ultimate alliance
1114-The best all-around robot, they can score like no ones business and they have the smoothest, smartest, and strongest drive team in FIRST.
217-Three reasons, they are the best hurdlers, they have the best pickup system, and I just love watching Karthik and Paul Copioli do things together.
The most divisive issue is the third partner, three hurdlers or a good lap runner, I believe the hurdlers are more important, because they can play any game so with for my third member
1024-A team with talent to burn. A team that has really been smoking this year in terms of performance. A team that has been really hot lately. A team that has been the recipent of more bad puns related to fire than anyone else in the history of the world, they are an amazing team. They are super fast and have a hybrid that is amazing. They could be a straight lap runner and would still be able to dominate. They can hurdle when needed and can still play defense or do what ever needed to be done to win.
waialua359
23-03-2008, 22:38
Maybe we should talk about possible einstein matchups.
217, 1114, and 1024 vs 987, 330, 1717 vs 968, 254, 368 vs 11, 25, 103 vs 233, 1902, 179 vs 111, 71, 148 vs 1731, 121, 836 just to name a few and mix and match them where necessary. :P
waialua359
23-03-2008, 22:40
Glenn,
How many regionals do the Hawaiian kids go to? :ahh:
we've never done more than one until last year.
Trying to be FIRST in miles racked up per season......hehe. We're also going to Portland and Seattle for another national program before school gets out.
Next year: Kansas City, Louisiana, Hawaii, CM and hopefully IFI.:D
1126, 1629, and 148
the only problem i see with that alliance is that only 1126 can get the ball down.
I'm surprised that 1731 hasn't been mentioned, but i'm not sure who i would say is the ultimate alliance yet.
Maybe we should talk about possible einstein matchups.
Sorry to go off topic but i hope it comes down to the best claws vs. the best shooters. that would be interesting...
mark johnson
23-03-2008, 23:53
Sorry to go off topic but i hope it comes down to the best claws vs. the best shooters. that would be interesting...
THE CLAWS 217,330 33 VS THE LAUNCHERS 1114,71,968 WHAT A MATCH THAT WOULD BE!!!!!!!
NoahTheBoa
23-03-2008, 23:57
How about 330, 968, 1717 vs. 217, 1114, 71?
I hope we get to see some of the west coast teams team up in Atlanta this year.
i would like 233, 1323 and 100
Uberbots
24-03-2008, 00:29
Sorry to go off topic but i hope it comes down to the best claws vs. the best shooters. that would be interesting...
claws vs. shooters... hmm
sounds like a match like this would definitely settle some disputes discussed earlier this season!
im not going to give any team numbers for ultimate alliance because i know nothing of the dynamics behind the team numbers. We could say that 1114, 217, and 1024 could win in Atlanta, but we also have no idea how these teams would work together. They could be completely incompatible.
(yes i do realize that 1114 and 1024 won MWR)
Kellen Hill
24-03-2008, 00:53
1625,1730,1675
That would be a great alliance if none of the robots broke. That was the major drawback to this alliance. It was definitely fun while it lasted.
As for the discussion, unless the talent for a division is incredibly deep, I don't see 3 big name hurdlers getting together. I still like 2 awesome hurdlers and a lap/D bot. Having 3 hurdlers on one alliance could be very good if planned out correctly, but if the robots are fighting over balls things could get messy. I think it is best to leave 2 great hurdlers to what they do best and not mess up their rhythm. My alliance will be 1114, 217, 148 after what I have seen up to week 4.
=Martin=Taylor=
24-03-2008, 01:58
I'm surprised no one has mentioned team 27. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65952&highlight=team+27) From what I saw, their robot seemed on par with 1114. Powerful shooter, fast pick-up, good knock down mechanism, speedy drive train.
As for the ultimate alliance I'd have to go with a 1114 + 968 combo. There's no saying who the third pick would be, but it would need to be a fast lap-runner with a knock-down mechanism.
Bcliff358
24-03-2008, 10:48
1114, 1124, 148 vrs. 217, 175, 27
Tom Bottiglieri
24-03-2008, 10:56
1114, (175/1124), 217
David Brinza
24-03-2008, 11:02
Team 16 hasn't been mentioned since just after MWR (week #1). You can bet that they've been busy ever since, getting ready for Bayou. An alliance there with 16, 118, & a "D-bot", could dominate the elims in New Orleans even more so than the Los Angeles Regional winners.
Since I find the webcasts a bit inadequate for watching the matches, I'm going to Bayou to scout for the Championship. Well, actually I just want to get a first-hand look at Bomb Squad in action!
65_Xero_Huskie
24-03-2008, 12:21
71, 1114, 148
vs.
330, 217, 1024
Dream matchup.
Team 16 hasn't been mentioned since just after MWR (week #1). You can bet that they've been busy ever since, getting ready for Bayou. An alliance there with 16, 118, & a "D-bot", could dominate the elims in New Orleans even more so than the Los Angeles Regional winners.Hmmm. Dave, have you been sneaking looks at my FF Bayou picks?:yikes: If 1902 is defense...
And dominating more than L.A. is saying something. 330+1717 NEVER scored less than 100 points, even under defense. (Heavy defense, too.) IN the elims, it was even worse--there was one match with a 90-point margin of victory after penalties on 330 and 1717's alliance and none on the other. Another match ended up 142-0 after 2 penalties on the other alliance.
1114, 330, and someone to keep other robots out of their way. 148, 980, 1024, 1717, or pretty much anyone else with a good drivetrain.
Joe Ross
24-03-2008, 14:51
And dominating more than L.A. is saying something. 330+1717 NEVER scored less than 100 points, even under defense. (Heavy defense, too.) IN the elims, it was even worse--there was one match with a 90-point margin of victory after penalties on 330 and 1717's alliance and none on the other. Another match ended up 142-0 after 2 penalties on the other alliance.
2056, 1114, and 1680 were even more dominating at Waterloo.
Regional Min Max Avg
LA 102 142 116
WAT 104 142 125
2056, 1114, and 1680 were even more dominating at Waterloo.
Regional Min Max Avg
LA 102 142 116
WAT 104 142 125Ouch.
I say that any alliance with average scores over 100 has its teams going into the pool for ultimate alliance.
So I re thought my previous ultimate alliance and for some reason had a brain fart on some teams. That alliance of 1126, 1114 and 2228 would be a close 2nd but my number one alliance would be 1126 1114 and 1024. 3 great hurdlers that can all knock off and have great hybrid modes. One can only hope in Atlanta:yikes:
Meredith Novak
24-03-2008, 19:44
Team 16 hasn't been mentioned since just after MWR (week #1). You can bet that they've been busy ever since, getting ready for Bayou. An alliance there with 16, 118, & a "D-bot", could dominate the elims in New Orleans even more so than the Los Angeles Regional winners.
Since I find the webcasts a bit inadequate for watching the matches, I'm going to Bayou to scout for the Championship. Well, actually I just want to get a first-hand look at Bomb Squad in action!
Yes, I could tell a tale of a practice robot and some "avoidance" code not seeing me in my Easter outfit - they were some very fast high heels:ahh:
Congrats on the LA win, David, and we are looking forward to seeing you in the Big Easy!
1114, 233, 930
Best Hurdlers
Best End Game
Best Laps
cziggy343
24-03-2008, 20:27
1114, 968, 148
who needs an end game if you can hurdle that many times and run that many laps?:cool:
Anonymous User
25-03-2008, 18:56
I think any alliance with the numbers 1114 and 16 in it would be unstoppable!
For me the ultimate alliance this year is 1114/x/y, since 1114 is the only team that really sticks out above all the elite players of this year (maybe 1114/217/1024? 1114/330/148? who knows).
But none of these alliances really have much of a hope of occurring, as I expect at least 2 (more likely all 3) to be in the top 8 in their division or to be easy first round picks.
I think the actual winning alliance at the Championships is going to be a 5th-8th division seeded alliance, captained by either a team performing well enough to get noticed but not spectacular enough to be considered one of the dominate top teams (25, 39, 111, 254, 1625) or by one of the highly publicized robots of this year having an off match or two in qualifiers (27, 217, 233, 330, 968, 987, 1024, 1114, 1126, 1717, etc.). There are so many good hurdlers out there that in at least one division a low captain will be able to pick another robot of almost equal hurdling ability (say 5-6 hurdles per match), but will have first or second choice at the good lap runners or herders (of which there are very few and will almost be guaranteed to be passed up in the first round for hurdlers). I'm a firm believer in alliance play and that 3 well above average robots will be able to defeat 1 or even 2 phenomenal robots with no supporting alliance, and that having a partner that doesn't need a trackball will be essential.
So I'm hoping to see something like 118/39/1986, 1625/100/207, 118/33/60, and who knows what else. The last bot is really up in the air to me as lap runners/herders don't seem to be getting that much publicity aside from 148 (and unfortunately I think they're going to do well enough to get in the top 8 in their division, and I don't think there'll be 2 good enough hurdlers for them to pick up out there).
waialua359
26-03-2008, 04:10
For me the ultimate alliance this year is 1114/x/y, since 1114 is the only team that really sticks out above all the elite players of this year (maybe 1114/217/1024? 1114/330/148? who knows).
But none of these alliances really have much of a hope of occurring, as I expect at least 2 (more likely all 3) to be in the top 8 in their division or to be easy first round picks.
I think the actual winning alliance at the Championships is going to be a 5th-8th division seeded alliance, captained by either a team performing well enough to get noticed but not spectacular enough to be considered one of the dominate top teams (25, 39, 111, 254, 1625) or by one of the highly publicized robots of this year having an off match or two in qualifiers (27, 217, 233, 330, 968, 987, 1024, 1114, 1126, 1717, etc.). There are so many good hurdlers out there that in at least one division a low captain will be able to pick another robot of almost equal hurdling ability (say 5-6 hurdles per match), but will have first or second choice at the good lap runners or herders (of which there are very few and will almost be guaranteed to be passed up in the first round for hurdlers). I'm a firm believer in alliance play and that 3 well above average robots will be able to defeat 1 or even 2 phenomenal robots with no supporting alliance, and that having a partner that doesn't need a trackball will be essential.
So I'm hoping to see something like 118/39/1986, 1625/100/207, 118/33/60, and who knows what else. The last bot is really up in the air to me as lap runners/herders don't seem to be getting that much publicity aside from 148 (and unfortunately I think they're going to do well enough to get in the top 8 in their division, and I don't think there'll be 2 good enough hurdlers for them to pick up out there).
Your rationale makes sense. However, I would be more inclined to agree with it in last year's game. Teams picking late could get a good ringer bot first round and take the "best" ramp (bonus robot) on the way back. Since bonus points were huge last year, it decided many matches.
I think at CMP, there will be more than 24 good hurdlers, lap/racer bots to go around per division. I'm not entirely convinced that a #1 seed with a first pick will be at a disadvantage once the 3rd alliance partner choices comes around. I still think 3 hurdling robots are the way to go that have decent speed and great autonomous.
1024 has proven that they can take on an average team (or an alliance with no auto) by themselves during auto period.
Ricki E.
26-03-2008, 04:18
For GTR: I would think Woburn (188), ThunderChickens (217) and Simbotics (1114).
GaryVoshol
26-03-2008, 08:16
For GTR: I would think Woburn (188), ThunderChickens (217) and Simbotics (1114).
Hey, ThunderChickens are good, but I don't think they're so good they can compete in GLR and GTR at the same time!
Tim Delles
26-03-2008, 11:28
hrmmmm
1114, 71, 233...
IDK something about the Ultimate Alliance always makes me wanna pick Beatty, and i know we have all learned before that you never bet against them. hrmmm if 1114 can capture GTR this coming weekend I'd go as far as to call them the best robot this year (even though 1024 already has 3 regional wins).
Mike Harrison
26-03-2008, 11:53
This might sound a little obvious at first but stay with me... it all depends on who gets #1 seed and who is in what division. If the two best hurdlers are in the same division (personal opinion: 1114, 217) and one of them gets the number one seed, then they will pick the other. I think you will be hard-pressed to find 2 robots that can beat this as it stands now. If one of them does not get the number one seed, then things start getting interesting, because there is going to be a face-off, now it all depends who gets the number one seed, is it a good or average bot? Or somehow did a low-scorer get up there? If the #1 seed is a less-than-ideal teammate then whoever they pick is in deep trouble, because they get the veeerry last pick, so you're going to end up with 1 phenomenal robot, and 2 less-than-phenomenal robots, and that isn't going to win the championship this year. I tend to think that the gap is wide enough from the phenomenal bots to the good bots that champs is going to be won by the #1 or #2 alliance, possibly #3, because by the time you get to #4, all of the awesome bots are gone. So this is who wins... the 2 best hurdlers in their division and the sleeper lap-bot (or possibly defense, I've now seen what defense can do at WMR). This is called the "ultimate alliance" but I think that if the two best hurdlers get together with an ok lapbot the 200-pt. barrier will be broken.
Tom Bottiglieri
26-03-2008, 12:15
This is the way I see it right now. A pairing of any of these robots would be amazing. Either way, look for all of these teams to be making waves in ATL.
Tier 1:
1114, 217 (I absolutely love the chickens this year! Slams are much cooler than Boops)
Tier 2:
330, 968, 987, 233, 71 (with rollers), 1124, 16
Tier 3:
175, 254, 2056, 111, 118, 980, 121, 1024, 1625, 33
Forgive me if I am forgetting anyone. These are just the teams that stick out in my mind. Also forgive me for the northeast bias. These teams pop into my head much faster.
This might sound a little obvious at first but stay with me... it all depends on who gets #1 seed and who is in what division. If the two best hurdlers are in the same division (personal opinion: 1114, 217) and one of them gets the number one seed, then they will pick the other. I think you will be hard-pressed to find 2 robots that can beat this as it stands now. If one of them does not get the number one seed, then things start getting interesting, because there is going to be a face-off, now it all depends who gets the number one seed, is it a good or average bot? Or if the first seed is smart, they can break up alliances before they are made. Let's say that 1114 and 217 are in the same division. #1 seed is, say, a not-so-good team. 1114 is third and 217 is fifth (random seeds). If that team is smart, they will: pick 217, then pick 1114. Note: only do this if you know both will decline...Now, 1114 and 217 CAN'T team up, and so both get a less-good alliance. They may even face each other at some point.
It all depends who is first seed. At L.A., with two good hurdlers and about three or four less-good ones, the first seed was one of the good hurdlers and picked the other. Game over.
Guy Davidson
26-03-2008, 12:26
Note: only do this if you know both will decline...
I bet most top seeds would be happy to get 1114 or 217 if they don't decline...
65_Xero_Huskie
26-03-2008, 12:31
This is the way I see it right now. A pairing of any of these robots would be amazing. Either way, look for all of these teams to be making waves in ATL.
Tier 1:
1114, 217 (I absolutely love the chickens this year! Slams are much cooler than Boops)
Tier 2:
330, 968, 987, 233, 71 (with rollers), 1124, 16
Tier 3:
175, 254, 2056, 111, 118, 980, 121, 1024, 1625, 33
Forgive me if I am forgetting anyone. These are just the teams that stick out in my mind. Also forgive me for the northeast bias. These teams pop into my head much faster.
Is this for the top hurdlers?
Or is it for the 1/2/3 in being alliance picked?
Because, i think that the top team would pick a hurdler, and then a D bot on the way back.
Any team that picks 3 hurdlers that are good hurdlers. (E.g. 1114,217,330) Would be at a disadvantage, because it would be 3 people fighting for balls. 2 hurdler, 1 Def bot would be the ideal one for this game.
And on the thought about 8th seed getting the better picks, i dont believe this to be true this year. the 8th seed will likely have an inferior hurdle mechanism compared to #1 seed. And they will pick another not as good hurdler because the top teams will pick them first. And the 3rd round pick will be a bot that will play defense, which most bots can do.
Last year, the 8th seed had a real advantage, because they would pick a person who can put rings on AND then get the best Ramp that they could climb.
This game it will be a strange alliance picking at nationals for sure.
I'm inclined to add 1086 to this mix. They have very good ball capture and handle abilities in addition to a very high-powered catapult. Their drivers learn very quickly and know how to maneuver their mecanum drive through traffic very well without getting penalties. They've repeatedly knocked the ball off of their own side overpass in hybrid and the only reason it was slow was b/c it was designed to ensure alliance members were not in the way.
You'll see them in Atlanta: they won VCU finals and VCU chairman's.
Any team that picks 3 hurdlers that are good hurdlers. (E.g. 1114,217,330) Would be at a disadvantage, because it would be 3 people fighting for balls
This depends on your point of view. It is much more efficient to offensively score than to do preventative defense, in my opinion. 3 partners who have a system for handing off balls to each other may benefit their score differential more than one of those bots could while playing defense on the opposing alliance. It's all just an opinion though.
waialua359
26-03-2008, 13:42
Lots of good points about alliance picking the last several posts.
A good example of breaking up alliances was in 2006 in the Newton division.
Forgive me if you dont agree, but CLEARLY, Newton was the best division with the most top tier robots.
Aces High, a fairly consistent winner year in and year out, broke up a deep division as stated earlier on how to do it.
Examples: 111, 25, 254, 987, 968, 71, etc. etc. 25 was arguably the best robot in the world that year.
I just wanted to add since it wasn't mentioned that breaking up alliances weakens the other seeds, which indirectly makes your own alliance a better one on a more equal playing field of alliances.
VCU '08 this year is a prime example.
#1 picks 4, 4 denies, picks 2, 2 denies, then picks 11 (arguably the best robot at VCU, team 1731). They wanted 11 from the very beginning, but would have loved to have either 2 or 4 (sparky twins).
So 1 picked 11, 2 picked outside the top eight, then we picked 10 since we couldnt take sparky, team 4.:D
Tom Bottiglieri
26-03-2008, 13:44
Any team that picks 3 hurdlers that are good hurdlers. (E.g. 1114,217,330) Would be at a disadvantage, because it would be 3 people fighting for balls. 2 hurdler, 1 Def bot would be the ideal one for this game.
Until THEY play defense against YOU, realistically making both sides defense bots null and void.
3 good hurdlers requires at least 2 teams from the other alliance to be playing defense. Period. And I'm willing to bet one of the three hurdlers on my team can play pretty good defense if needed (They seem to have a grasp on the playing the game, I'm sure they can handle running balls into the wall...).
3 hurdlers keeps the opponents on their feet. They are no longer keeping the ball away from 1114. They now need to keep the ball away from the entire alliance, which is much harder to do. Defensive robots will accrue more penalties and have less options.
An alliance with 3 hurdlers will score less points on average, but win a higher percentage of their matches. It scales the scores unevenly in favor of the pure offensive alliance.
For example: my 2 hurdle/1 defense team can win matches 100-80 against a similar alliance. My 3 hurdler alliance can win matches 80-50 against the same team
This is all IMHO.
Kellen Hill
26-03-2008, 13:58
I really think that every alliance at champs. will be strong for eliminations. Rather than having 1 or 2 good robots at a regional, all of the strongest robots are in one place. The thing you will have to worry about is the weaker robot that gets lucky and creeps into the top rankings. These teams will create weaker alliances but a more even spread of the good teams if they manage to break them up. I would not worry about not being able to get good alliance partners if I was a lower seed. There is soo much talent.
And to Tom, I am starting to like the 3 hurdler alliance. I think it could work really well if you had the right teams and proper coordination.
smurfgirl
26-03-2008, 16:08
Or if the first seed is smart, they can break up alliances before they are made. Let's say that 1114 and 217 are in the same division. #1 seed is, say, a not-so-good team. 1114 is third and 217 is fifth (random seeds). If that team is smart, they will: pick 217, then pick 1114. Note: only do this if you know both will decline...Now, 1114 and 217 CAN'T team up, and so both get a less-good alliance. They may even face each other at some point.
It all depends who is first seed. At L.A., with two good hurdlers and about three or four less-good ones, the first seed was one of the good hurdlers and picked the other. Game over.
I like the way you think- we always talk about hypothetical situations like this before alliance selections.
And your story about L.A. sounds a lot like what we saw in Connecticut- of four or five really good hurdling robots, two of them seeded in 1st and 2nd. When seed 1 picked seed 2, and none of the other good hurdlers ended up paired with one another, alliances 2-8 were a little disadvantaged.
David Brinza
26-03-2008, 16:49
This is the way I see it right now. A pairing of any of these robots would be amazing. Either way, look for all of these teams to be making waves in ATL.
Tier 1:
1114, 217 (I absolutely love the chickens this year! Slams are much cooler than Boops)
Tier 2:
330, 968, 987, 233, 71 (with rollers), 1124, 16
Tier 3:
175, 254, 2056, 111, 118, 980, 121, 1024, 1625, 33
Forgive me if I am forgetting anyone. These are just the teams that stick out in my mind. Also forgive me for the northeast bias. These teams pop into my head much faster.
I think you've got to include 1717 in Tier 2 or better.
We're flattered by the Tier 3 ranking, but we are definitely a role-player (defense, herder, etc.) for an alliance with two good hurdlers. Maybe that's a formula that will work in Atlanta, but we're really not in the same echelon as 33, 111, 118, 254, 1024, 1625, ...
Tom Bottiglieri
26-03-2008, 16:55
I think you've got to include 1717 in Tier 2 or better.
We're flattered by the Tier 3 ranking, but we are definitely a role-player (defense, herder, etc.) for an alliance with two good hurdlers. Maybe that's a formula that will work in Atlanta, but we're really not in the same echelon as 33, 111, 118, 254, 1024, 1625, ...
4 tiers is too many and I didnt want to give 330 too much credit for your dominance in LA... ;)
Also I will have to check out 1717, for some reason their bot design escapes me.
Also I will have to check out 1717, for some reason their bot design escapes me.Black tower and base, white logos/numbers. It's a three-wheeled roller claw on a lift. 6WD. Something like 254/968 from last year with a variation of the roller claw in black and white. No pictures from this year in CD-Media, but TBA has one.
Bcliff358
26-03-2008, 17:26
Until THEY play defense against YOU, realistically making both sides defense bots null and void.
3 good hurdlers requires at least 2 teams from the other alliance to be playing defense. Period. And I'm willing to bet one of the three hurdlers on my team can play pretty good defense if needed (They seem to have a grasp on the playing the game, I'm sure they can handle running balls into the wall...).
3 hurdlers keeps the opponents on their feet. They are no longer keeping the ball away from 1114. They now need to keep the ball away from the entire alliance, which is much harder to do. Defensive robots will accrue more penalties and have less options.
An alliance with 3 hurdlers will score less points on average, but win a higher percentage of their matches. It scales the scores unevenly in favor of the pure offensive alliance.
For example: my 2 hurdle/1 defense team can win matches 100-80 against a similar alliance. My 3 hurdler alliance can win matches 80-50 against the same team
This is all IMHO.
This is a great point although it only works for few select alliance. Obviously is 1114 and 217 are in an alliance, a third hurdler is questionable, especially if it is picked in the third round (which it would be). Would you really want this third hurdler to take the ball away from the power house scorers. If you are against a defensive robot a good alternative is a pure racer, such as 148.
Mike Ross
26-03-2008, 17:55
I honestly don't think there is any "Ultimate Alliance" this year that would roll over all competition. Obviously any alliance matching 1114 with 217 or 968 with 330 will be a power, but once you get to that high level of play, luck and strategy start to play a much greater role.
Remember 2006 IRI? - Going into the elims everyone, and I mean everyone, thought the #1 alliance, combining the two most feared teams of '06 (25 & 1114) would dominate. How'd that work out?
People will always speculate how things will play out, but year after year we are surprised when David takes down Goliath. It's why they play the matches, folks. (Though for the record, I would love to see 217 & 1114 pair up. It would just be fun to watch.:D )
Tom Bottiglieri
26-03-2008, 18:11
This is a great point although it only works for few select alliance. Obviously is 1114 and 217 are in an alliance, a third hurdler is questionable, especially if it is picked in the third round (which it would be). Would you really want this third hurdler to take the ball away from the power house scorers. If you are against a defensive robot a good alternative is a pure racer, such as 148.
The third hurdler wouldnt be taking the ball away. They would just create more scoring opportunities, which draws more defense, which drops the opponents score.
Bcliff358
26-03-2008, 18:40
I absolutely see your point, but i think that having three hurdlers would cause a lot of confusion in the alliance. I do see it happening if the alliance has great communication and strategy, especially during the match.
Kellen Hill
26-03-2008, 19:26
I really enjoys Mike's point. I mean I was the human player for 1625 and I was sure we wouldn't make it past Semis, but look what happened. I really can't wait to see how alliances pair up at champs.
65_Xero_Huskie
26-03-2008, 19:54
Remember 2006 IRI? - Going into the elims everyone, and I mean everyone, thought the #1 alliance, combining the two most feared teams of '06 (25 & 1114) would dominate. How'd that work out?
Personally, i didnt think they were the most feared teams in '06 (121,217 come to mind ;)), but in '06 ANY team of good shooters could win the game as long as they had balls and could get auto mode down.
I dont think that the obvious team will win this year either.
I think a 3 seed is going to win :P
Chris Herold
27-03-2008, 00:25
Well at the 2008 Microsoft Seattle Regional our alliance was doing pretty good together. Team 1983, Team 2046 and Team 949 went through the finals without losing any game. Seattle does not have the every strong teams like 1114 or 368 (they really impressed me in Portland) but I think we built a very strong alliance.
Corey Balint
27-03-2008, 07:35
but in '06 ANY team of good shooters could win the game as long as they had balls and could get auto mode down.
---off topic---
Slightly untrue. In Einstein semifinals, the 195, 968, 25 alliance purposely lost the auto mode to beat the 177, 1126, 201 alliance.
Guy Davidson
27-03-2008, 10:42
---off topic---
Slightly untrue. In Einstein semifinals, the 195, 968, 25 alliance purposely lost the auto mode to beat the 177, 1126, 201 alliance.
Interesting. Would you care to explain how you came to that decision and why?
Tom Bottiglieri
27-03-2008, 11:46
Interesting. Would you care to explain how you came to that decision and why?
25 and 968 shot in auto. 195 played defense.
1126 and 201 shot in auto. 177 played defense.
1126 and 201 could outscore 25 and 968 in auto, but 25 and 968 had a big advantage in teleop (they both camped under the goal and rarely missed)
So, it was worth it to put 25 on defense on 1126 and 201 in auto and hand them the 10 point bonus, but try to take away more than 10 points in missed shots. (1126 would have hit 10/10 without defense)
Then, 968 and 25 could start the teleop portion with a full magazine, and hit a higher percentage rather than throwing them away in auto.
Greg Marra
27-03-2008, 11:52
So, it was worth it to put 25 on defense on 1126 and 201 in auto and hand them the 10 point bonus, but try to take away more than 10 points in missed shots. (1126 would have hit 10/10 without defense)
Then, 968 and 25 could start the teleop portion with a full magazine, and hit a higher percentage rather than throwing them away in auto.
And it worked. (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/?year=2006)
Corey Balint
27-03-2008, 11:54
25 and 968 shot in auto. 195 played defense.
1126 and 201 shot in auto. 177 played defense.
1126 and 201 could outscore 25 and 968 in auto, but 25 and 968 had a big advantage in teleop (they both camped under the goal and rarely missed)
So, it was worth it to put 25 on defense on 1126 and 201 in auto and hand them the 10 point bonus, but try to take away more than 10 points in missed shots. (1126 would have hit 10/10 without defense)
Then, 968 and 25 could start the teleop portion with a full magazine, and hit a higher percentage rather than throwing them away in auto.
I had PM'ed him right away with a full response...was trying to keep this thread on topic.
Sheesh Tom and Greg.
Greg, shouldn't you be webcasting?
Tom Bottiglieri
27-03-2008, 12:07
I had PM'ed him right away with a full response...was trying to keep this thread on topic.
Sheesh Tom and Greg.
Greg, shouldn't you be webcasting?
But Corey, don't you know theres only one type of alliance and one strategy that can win? Like last year. 2 good tubers and a ramp bot, right? :cool:
---off topic---
Slightly untrue. In Einstein semifinals, the 195, 968, 25 alliance purposely lost the auto mode to beat the 177, 1126, 201 alliance.
After my explanation, please put this thread on topic.
SparX's robot broke. The timing belt for the shooter pulley snapped! It was not intentional. Something happened physically to the robot. That is why only one ball came out of the shooter. Does this explain everything to everyone? And why SparX's robot did not perform as well as expected the rest of the matches?
Now, lets get on topic. The 2008 Ultimate Alliance :yikes:!
What alliance of any three robots would be absolutely unbeatable this year? I know it's only week 2 but this is based on what we've seen so far.
Mine would be 217, 1114, and 118. Maybe 58, 118, and 121?
Who is your ultimate alliance??
I would agree you mostly here. I would think that an ultimate alliance would be one with there hurdlers that are also fast with doing laps. This is because the opposing alliance can never predict what robot is going to have the ball. Also, I would say this alliance would want one arm hurdler to be able to place at the end for the bonus. From this, I would say the ultimate alliance would be 1114, 217, and 121.
Sean.Conway
30-03-2008, 12:59
Any team can play defense.
An Ultimate Alliance needs to be of course to great shooters and then if possible because of the amount of teams available during the picking process a third shooter, The alliance leader and its companion hurdler are going to have targets on their back. If one robot is being pinnned down then you still have 2 more robots with at least the "potential" to shoot. Teams are limiting themselves by saying just take a quick lapper or D bot. Sure, some of those robots can consistently put up 5-10 laps, but points won hurdling over the bars can be exponentially more.
Just because a team has a device to hurdle, doesn't mean they cant still do laps and play D, and a majority of the teams I see with those capabilities are just as quick as a robot that is just Def./herder.
This year because the game piece was large I think that really slowed team downs on how to accomplish the game task. There is a Definite opinion of who top teams are, and then theres a small middle tier between WoW and Ok.
Good Luck to ALL teams! Keep up the good work!
-SeanC 987:confused:
An important thing to keep in mind is that more than two hurdlers on one team may be overkill, I think two good hurdlers and a speed bot with a solid hybrid mode. If some form of an ultimate alliance were formed I could see 12-14 lines in Hybrid, both balls knocked off, and 10 hurdles(maybe more). An individual robot can't do much better than putting up numbers like both balls and 5 lines in hybrid and 6 or 7 hurdles in a match.(oh...wait that sounds like 1114) any team with 1114 is an ultimate alliance.
Regardless of a speed bot I would think three hurdlers would be 1114, 103 and 217. In saying this i'nm not taking anything away from 118, 25, 27, 40,20,121,126, 968, 987,1024 and some others as well.:D
waialua359
30-03-2008, 14:33
This thread has two tangents.
Who you think is the ultimate alliance and who we think will do successfully well at CMP.
The discussion will get more interesting once the divisions are setup. It's too bad we are going to have to wait a week longer now due to that week 6 regional.
Cant wait to see what everyone says once that's setup.
I think the Hawaii regional this past week had arguably 5 of the top 12 robots in the world. Bragging rights of a top score of 148 in the finals match. :ahh:
The Poofs, Pink and RAWC are long overdue for a world title.
Pink and Raider Robotix certainly with an all around robot with their hybrid mode. Even these teams agreed that once 368, kika mana fine tunes their hybrid mode, they are very very good. they will certainly be scouted, choosing or be chosen this year at CMP as an alliance partner.
mark johnson
30-03-2008, 15:43
The bottom line is this,if 217 THE THUNDERCHICKENS, and 1114 THE SIMBOTS team up ,FORGET ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!! With these two awsome teams and scoring machines together,with the masterminds of Paul and Karthik lights out 8,9,10! Add another good scorer that can lap or play some D and you have a powerhouse!!!!!!!
team2061
30-03-2008, 15:51
Best alliance ever would be Team 987 High Rollers and Team 39 Aero Squadron and another great team.
Alex Cormier
30-03-2008, 16:00
No numbers will be inserted and will never be inserted in my opinions. only what the bot needs to be and you can fill in the teams as you wish.
I say...
2 robots that have the ability to shoot and a roller intake system where they don't have to stop 90% of the time to acquire the ball after a hurdle.the third robot has to be a arm type robot, one that can easily knock at the end and play hard defense on the top teams.
.
waialua359
30-03-2008, 16:24
Just wanted to add observations made this past week which I'm sure others could add based on observations at other regionals.
Types of referee calls (consistent), defense, and what the role of the non-hurdling robot should do.
Many were amazed/shocked/happy/mad at the same time during the matches between the 2024/846/2460 vs 233/254/2454 matches in the semis where the pink alliance barely pulled out the win in the rubber match.
Before you watch the vids, you have to wonder how the heck did they almost lose. Remember, this alliance pulled out a record 148 points in the finals, while pink was undefeated during the weekend dominating matches, and to add 254 to the alliance which was dominating. 2024 and 846 averaged under 2 hurdles per match, yet were very, very confident as I watched them from behind. If they had won, 233, 254, 968, and 25 all would have been knocked out in the semis (the top 4 offensive teams at the regional, IMO).
The referees allowed the teams to play without strict penalties (not counting G22). The strategy by the other alliance clearly worked to immobolize the scoring. I dont want to get into the tipping over part as it shouldnt be argued over on CD.
My point is that the referees controlled the tempo of the matches which were consistent throughout the whole tournament. I wonder what will it be like at CMP.
Anyone can be immobolized by a good defensive robot. I've heard great praise about team 8 from 2024 at SVR and their defensive abilities, where both of them teammed up. 2024 has shown great confidence, great driving, and great strategy in their 2 regionals.
Those two may not be among the greatest of hurdlers, but they certainly should not be passed up at CMP, at the very least as the 3rd alliance partner.
Just another note: It was the first time I saw where the strategy in some matches were to act as if you were herding the opponents ball for them very intently the WHOLE match, in preventing hurdling. That is truly a GREAT strategy.
Sean,
Where are you? What do you think? Acccurate? :)
Lil' Lavery
30-03-2008, 16:34
Rather than explain my reasoning and leave out the numbers of each of the teams to fill the roles, I'll give you the teams and let you guess at the reasoning. ;)
1114, 365, 1024
Okay, Glenn's edit a split second before I hit "post" is just plain scary.
Katie_UPS
30-03-2008, 16:36
I also agree with the three hurdlers idea
As long as the alliance is communicating (which I don't see why they wouldn't) then it wouldn't be a problem.
From first hand experience, a 2hurdle-1lap/def bot can do pretty badly.
In the Wisconsin regional, the number 1 alliance (1625.1730.1675) looked like it was going to dominate, but then a hurdler broke and we only had one other hurdler. THEN the other hurdler broke. Leaving three lap bots, and unless you had extremely awesome defense (but that equals penalties) you really have no chance.
Although I'm surprised no one said 1675 (not to be conceided), because we were spotlighted earlier (week 2ish) about being one the first defense bots...
But the idea of three hurdlers is, in my opinion, the best, as long as communication is present.
waialua359
30-03-2008, 16:40
Rather than explain my reasoning and leave out the numbers of each of the teams to fill the roles, I'll give you the teams and let you guess at the reasoning. ;)
1114, 365, 1024
Okay, Glenn's edit a split second before I hit "post" is just plain scary.
DITTO! and we're 6 hours apart.
Since your dad saw the whole thing, I'm sure you'll have lots of interesting things to "analyze." I think it was an eye opener even for him.
andrew348
30-03-2008, 17:06
Now I will have to say
20, 1114, and 148
ADHDassassin
30-03-2008, 17:14
Team 1114 They are just amazing, Team 1477 Best Win-loss record in FIRST, Team 16 Their robot has amazing potential if the driving coordination improves.
waialua359
30-03-2008, 17:36
I've heard from many others that teams 16 and 20 are just simply amazing and that its a surprise no one is talking about them more often.
smurfgirl
30-03-2008, 18:15
Team 1114 They are just amazing, Team 1477 Best Win-loss record in FIRST, Team 16 Their robot has amazing potential if the driving coordination improves.
Best win-loss record for this season, or for the whole team history? What is your record?
brimcdonald666
30-03-2008, 18:28
Rather than explain my reasoning and leave out the numbers of each of the teams to fill the roles, I'll give you the teams and let you guess at the reasoning. ;)
1114, 365, 1024
Okay, Glenn's edit a split second before I hit "post" is just plain scary.
*Shudders* I don't even want to imagine that...i mean, that would be at least 80+ points in hybrid if everything works out
Magnechu
30-03-2008, 20:20
I still have yet to see a better robot than 1124. 1114 is the only one that might be better than them, as far as I can tell, but the UberBots just seem more consistent and have a better pickup on the ball. 1114 definitely has the best actual hurdle, but it seems like if anyone is as fast as them and plays hard defense on them, they're going to have a hard time picking that ball up. 1124's only weakness is their net getting tangled up in another robot. It would be absolutely sick to watch them team up.
I hope that wasn't confusing as their numbers are so close. ;x
ADHDassassin
30-03-2008, 22:20
Best win-loss record for this season, or for the whole team history? What is your record?
Team 1477 has the best winning percentage of any team that has competed in at least 2 regionals at 30-1 and by the way our only loss came because of penalties our driver got when all four of us on the field had a huge blonde moment and picked up the other alliances ball and ran for half a lap. That match was against 118 and even with the penalty and lost time and scoring potential of the mishap we only lost by twenty points and BTW that was 25 matches ago. :)
s_forbes
30-03-2008, 22:58
After seeing the Las Vegas regional, it's obvious that 39 definitely belongs in the ultimate alliance. Holy cow. They had several 7 hurdle matches, are able to catch the ball when taking it off the overpass (in hybrid as well as teleop), and can hurdle a flat trackball. Enough said.
My current favorite alliance: 1114, 39, 1024
FrozenFish
31-03-2008, 00:06
Is there another website that has a lot of the finals matches besides YouTube? I keep trying to find videos of different regionals and failing :(
MrForbes
31-03-2008, 00:12
Did you try The Blue Alliance
http://www.thebluealliance.net/
and Soap108?
http://www.soap.circuitrunners.com/2008/movies/
Team 2122, 1662, 1388 what an alliance that would be
1114,39,2016
first of all the ultimate alliance definitely has to include 1114 and probably 39 and for the last bot since its fellows almost never break and 1114 covers both balls in hybrid i would have to pick the fastest team, 2016 who also gets lines in hybrid.
swamp_child
13-04-2008, 00:31
the pink swamp tigers
233, 1251, 179
Bcliff358
13-04-2008, 01:07
Since the divisions are out, I will give you my ultimate alliances in each division.
Galileo: 1114, 330, 217
Newton:233, 39, 175
Archimedes: 1124, 987, 365
Curie: 67, 33, 1126
mark johnson
13-04-2008, 15:29
Since the divisions are out, I will give you my ultimate alliances in each division.
Galileo: 1114, 330, 217
Newton:233, 39, 175
Archimedes: 1124, 987, 365
Curie: 67, 33, 1126
Galileo:1114,217,330 Newton:968,233,39 Archimedes:71,987,27 Curie:1126,67,2337(you will see what i mean with 2337) .
Bcliff358
13-04-2008, 19:53
Galileo:1114,217,330 Newton:968,233,39 Archimedes:71,987,27 Curie:1126,67,2337(you will see what i mean with 2337) .
I know about 2337. I love their bot, the way it boots it over. Its really impressive.
Guy Davidson
13-04-2008, 20:02
Completley impossible, but still fun:
Archi: 71, 987, 1024
Curie: 16, 67, 191
Galileo: 217, 254, 1114 - awesome during teleop, but lacking hybrid powers (talking about the non-1114 members). Maybe 40, 217, 1114.
Newton: 39, 233, 968
Personally, I'm going to see how the rest of the regionals pan out. Don't worry I'll come back to this.:D
Man I almost forgot about this. Well I Better get an alliance out before Eliminations.
I think that the best alliance will have 2 elite hurdlers; robots that can easily take charge of an alliance's offense. At least one will be able to cap, but ideally, both could cap a trackball.
The third robot is much harder to peg, however, an elite alliance must have a robot that is capable of playing some type of defense. This is essential, because hurdlers on opposing alliances will need to be slowed/shut down to get a W. This defensive robot could be a lap bot or another hurdler, but whatever their primary scoring method is, it must be fast, because they probably won't be using the trackballs to score a lot.
Something that I think is essential to an "ultimate" alliance is minimal penalty point deductions. While this late in the season penalties should become scarce, they aren't (although they have decreased). A team that hardly ever gets penalized will go far.
lol... 121, 1114, plus someone...
thats my final offer on this matter lol :D
Magnechu
18-04-2008, 23:43
1124 alliance vs 1114 alliance in the finals of Einstein!
rsilverstein
19-04-2008, 16:30
This is a great point although it only works for few select alliance. Obviously is 1114 and 217 are in an alliance, a third hurdler is questionable, especially if it is picked in the third round (which it would be). Would you really want this third hurdler to take the ball away from the power house scorers. If you are against a defensive robot a good alternative is a pure racer, such as 148.
Good call :)
Crazy that some people's "Ultimate Alliance" is actually happening. They very well could win Einstein too.
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