KoP Revamp?

[Maxpower57]

I heard something about ifi updating all of their electronics for the robots next year.
any more information on that, or is it just a rumor?
i'd assume innovationFirst is gonna have a bit more cash flowing now with them owning vex and all.
so what are we in for? :D

[Steve S.]

we're in for no IFI next year :eek:

[Luckyfish05]

we're in for no IFI next year :eek:

Yep, no IFI but they have said that the programing will continue to be C or C++.

[Maxpower57]

O Rly?
so whats it going to be instead? or have they not announced it?
or is FIRST trying to pull it off themselves...?

[thefro526]

There's been info floating around about multiple sources making the control system. I don't believe much of it except that fact that team will still be able to use C and most likely the OI will not use gameports.

Some sources are reporting that it will be similar to the new FTC platform's control system. If so it looks like we're in for some cool surprises. Remember though that we will be using new speed controllers, relays and anything else dependent on IFI next year. (unless first gives us the option to reuse these parts)

[Maxpower57]

most likely the OI will not use gameports.

THANK YOU GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
hahaha
what would they use instead though?
hope to god they don't shoot for usb. that would suck for custom circuits.


eitherway i'm excited to see some new stuff roll out!

[Daniel_LaFleur]

T
hope to god they don't shoot for usb. that would suck for custom circuits.




Why? Just get a USB to serial (or joystick) adaptor and create your own custom circuits ;)

Or better get one of the ~$99 daq modules and make whatever controller you want.

[Maxpower57]

Why? Just get a USB to serial (or joystick) adaptor and create your own custom circuits ;)

Or better get one of the ~$99 daq modules and make whatever controller you want.
those are slow as .... something slow.... (Apple computers? *ducks to get out of fanboy's aim*)
i wouldn't trust any circuit with it.

[Golto]

What about an FTDI Chip. They're normally used to go from RS232 to USB, but I don't see why you couldn't do it in reverse.

They're relatively cheap, and fast enough for input.

[Tapoore]

Yep, no IFI but they have said that the programing will continue to be C or C++.

When did they say that?

[Luckyfish05]

When did they say that?

I honestly don't know, all I know is that my brother and father (who are the main programers of PantherTech) were discussing it at dinner just last night and talking about how FIRST had said it was going to still be C or C++. I figure they know what they're talking about...

[Daniel_LaFleur]

those are slow as .... something slow.... (Apple computers? *ducks to get out of fanboy's aim*)
i wouldn't trust any circuit with it.

The USB to serial or USB to joystick??? Yup slow but effective.

The USB DAQs can be quite fast though ... depending on the overhead of the DAQ driver.

Something like This (http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/14604) or this (http://www.measurementcomputing.com/cbicatalog/cbiproduct_new.asp?dept_id=412&pf_id=1535&mscssid=9M9URX6HCEB19PX1TF7STLEGHRT90SNC) could be a real possibility.

[thefro526]

THANK YOU GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
hahaha
what would they use instead though?
hope to god they don't shoot for usb. that would suck for custom circuits.


eitherway i'm excited to see some new stuff roll out!

You can get an adapter that goes from a gameport input to a USB output for 20 dollars or less. Ex. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Game-Joystick-adapter-DB-15-F-to-4-pin-USB-Port_W0QQitemZ260221285250QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42322 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. Trossen robotics also has some mini joysticks and other stuff that works with USB: http://www.trossenrobotics.com/robot-parts.aspx

[Maxpower57]

You can get an adapter that goes from a gameport input to a USB output for 20 dollars or less. Ex. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Game-Joystick-adapter-DB-15-F-to-4-pin-USB-Port_W0QQitemZ260221285250QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42322 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. Trossen robotics also has some mini joysticks and other stuff that works with USB: http://www.trossenrobotics.com/robot-parts.aspx

also you're forgetting that all usb things need drivers.
and its hard enough going through that mess with operating systems,

[thefro526]

I understand that USB things need drivers, I was just saying If you wanted to do it there is a way. Next year will be a learning year for almost every team and you will see a lot of people sharing their experiences on how to interface with the robot, so I wouldn't worry about too much of anything yet. Also I highly doubt FIRST will give us this new control system without some technical documents to help us out. In the past almost anything you could ever want to know about the current control system has been published and in time it will be the same in time, just you watch.;)

[Golto]

As far as drivers go, here's my thought.

Childboarding is your friend.

[KTorak]

I remember FIRST sending out a huge survey last year about the KoP. Maybe they will change some stuff around with the new control system.

[Golto]

do you have a link to the survey?

[proegssilb]

also you're forgetting that all usb things need drivers.
and its hard enough going through that mess with operating systems,
Unless you're using Win9x or the USB Chic(k)let, the USB HID standard should cover everything mouse/keyboard/joystick over USB. Incredibly cheap COTS items, custom circuits, or complex COTS items not implemented well might be exceptional, but everything else should be straight up USB HID (I'm thinking of a lot of Logitech devices when I say that).

[Maxpower57]

I understand that USB things need drivers, I was just saying If you wanted to do it there is a way. Next year will be a learning year for almost every team and you will see a lot of people sharing their experiences on how to interface with the robot, so I wouldn't worry about too much of anything yet. Also I highly doubt FIRST will give us this new control system without some technical documents to help us out. In the past almost anything you could ever want to know about the current control system has been published and in time it will be the same in time, just you watch.;)

Hahah that'd be awesome.
Heres a box with some wires.
Build a robot. go.
we'd figure it out eventually. :D

[AndyB]

If IFI is really leaving (i hope not),

What will happen with the Kit Frame?

[GBIT]

If IFI is really leaving (i hope not),

What will happen with the Kit Frame?


It might just not come in the kit. I don't believe the company is disbanding. i would think you could still buy parts from them. I hope you can anyway....:ahh:

[Daniel_LaFleur]

If IFI is really leaving (i hope not),

What will happen with the Kit Frame?

I was wondering the same thing.

Should be 'interesting' next year.

[AdamHeard]

It might just not come in the kit. I don't believe the company is disbanding. i would think you could still buy parts from them. I hope you can anyway....:ahh:

IFI most definitely won't be disbanding, very little of their revenue is from FIRST. IFI seems to enjoy supporting robotics in general, so whether or not the KOP frame will be in the KOP, it will probably still be sold.

[3dude_2231]

really really hoping IFI won't be leaving next year

but for whatever change comes, I hope it wont be for the worse
(for me worse means a more 'Easy C' approach, rather than digging into low-level code)


<dream>
I think the best addition that could be added would be the ability to debug and act like an ICD2:
I imagine 'freezing' the RC, changing values at 'mid-air' and so..
</dream>
I hope someone's hearing

[Daniel_LaFleur]

really really hoping IFI won't be leaving next year

but for whatever change comes, I hope it wont be for the worse
(for me worse means a more 'Easy C' approach, rather than digging into low-level code)


<dream>
I think the best addition that could be added would be the ability to debug and act like an ICD2:
I imagine 'freezing' the RC, changing values at 'mid-air' and so..
</dream>
I hope someone's hearing

I'm actually hopeing for a bit of both worlds.

I'd love to see an OS where things were abstracted a bit so newer teams wouldn't feel so innundated, but I'd also like to see the ability to go 'underneath the hood', so to speak, and be able to get into the bits and bytes.

If things are done right teams that want to streamline the code or create specialized interfaces to the RC should be able to while those that just want to 'plug and play' will be able to do so, but only with the generic instruction sets.

[3dude_2231]

I'm actually hopeing for a bit of both worlds.

I'd love to see an OS where things were abstracted a bit so newer teams wouldn't feel so innundated, but I'd also like to see the ability to go 'underneath the hood', so to speak, and be able to get into the bits and bytes.

If things are done right teams that want to streamline the code or create specialized interfaces to the RC should be able to while those that just want to 'plug and play' will be able to do so, but only with the generic instruction sets.
agreed

but, agree with me that you don't want to see a Lego Mindstorm as next year's controller =]

FIRST got me into learning PICs and uCs, things I had absolutely no experience with,
and now, in my second year, I actually help college students with PICs,
[now..after bragging] what I mean to say is, that with a little bit of effort and will (and with just the right guidance) , any team can achieve anything,
[and the bottom line], don't go crazy simplifying the control system
It's great as it is now.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

agreed

but, agree with me that you don't want to see a Lego Mindstorm as next year's controller =]

FIRST got me into learning PICs and uCs, things I had absolutely no experience with,
and now, in my second year, I actually help college students with PICs,
[now..after bragging] what I mean to say is, that with a little bit of effort and will (and with just the right guidance) , any team can achieve anything,
[and the bottom line], don't go crazy simplifying the control system
It's great as it is now.

Completely 100% agree.

Have enough abstraction to allow the rookie teams to have a decently functioning robot, but allow those who want to pull the veil of abstraction away and play with the magic behind it all to be able to do so. ;)