Who should be driver?

[markulrich]

Hey everyone! My team was wondering how yall decided who should drive. This year we had our robot do a series of tasks right before shipping and everyone got a few tries. Whoever completed the "course" fastest was our driver. Unfortunately, this set-up did not take into account understanding of the game, good strategy, robot-to-robot interaction, or the stress of competition.

So I was wondering. . .

1) How does your team decide who drives?
2) How does your team decide who is the "coach"? Do you have a mentor or student?
3) Do you have one or two drivers? Why?

Thanks!

[AndyB]

1) We had 4 candidates for drivers and operaters this year. We split them up into 2 drive teams (answers your third question, we use 2 drivers) and then gave them equal driving oppurtunity both during practice and during qualification matches.

2) The coach is generally the person who best understands the game and the robot.

3) 2 Drivers. Just makes things easier to do. This year was pretty simple. A base and an arm with 3 controls.

[Fatality]

we took a couple things into mind while choosing who should drive....our mentors actually made a test for whoever wanted to try out for driving and button monkey so we knew they knew what was going on....but we do have 2 drive teams....they alternate every other round...

[Danny McC]

1) We decide who drives generally before ship, we test the robot and see who handles it best and they are the driver. If we don't get that oppurtunity to do that we just go to our first regional and let whoever wants to drive, drive and whoever the best is we let them drive.

2) We only have a mentor as a coach every year. Predecided. But apparently I am assistant coach this year.

3) Do you mean two drivers as in a driver and an operator? If so than we use two just because it makes it a lot easier to control the robot for the both of them. But if you mean like only two drivers, as in actually driving the robot and not controlling the manipulators, than no we only have one driver. We like to show consistency be it good or bad.

We give an equal oppurtunity to whoever wants to drive the robot. O and also make sure to have a back up drive team.

[Blue_Mist]

To answer the first question: Driver Trials! It's different for each team. However, in Team 766, we hold driver trials for whoever wishes to drive and can be there for all the days of competition. Stress normally isn't a problem, but of course, it may be different for your team in particular. Driver trials this year, we set up a simple course with small, movable/delicate objects (fire alarm and a can of tip dip- with markings on the floor around them) and simply timed the driver potentials. Time and number of hits are recorded and taken into account. Also considered are experience and willingness to either learn strategy or take orders. This year, the scout leader, coach and box operator discussed strategy along with an extremely experienced team member, with the driver listening in/participating. And the entire drive team must be dedicated enough to learn the rules by heart, or risk a flurry of admonitions when they incur penalties.

To answer the second question: Currently, whoever wishes to be is coach. For the last couple of years we've had a mentor be coach, but this year a student asked to be coach, learned the rules, was to be present all the days of SVR and Davis, and discussed strategy, and was promptly handed the coach button. Remember, this may or may not work for your team. Coach should be able to keep a cool head, plan a strategy for the entire match, pull logical and workable tactics out of her or his ear as the match progresses and be on good terms with the scout/s. This last one is essential if they don't have the entire regional's worth of teams and their information stuffed into their heads, ready at a moment's notice. Granted, I have seen this sort of mental robotics competition encyclopedia whipped out time and again, so don't underestimate the mnemonic power of passion.

To answer the third question: We have a driver and a copilot. Our copilot is also our programmer, who pushes buttons/works a joystick (this year we had elevator control issues) that she wrote code for. Having two people drive the robot lets the driver focus on steering. The copilot essentially functions "as and extension of [the driver's] brain." (Taken directly from mouth of mentor.) So far, most teams use this approach that I've seen, and it works great because the steering driver isn't distracted by trying to find the buttons/other joystick, but our steering joysticks have no extra buttons on them (they are kit joysticks topped with screwdriver handles) except the gear shifter.

Wow, this has been a long post. Well, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope this has been helpful!

[Cow Bell Solo]

This year we had the bot done before shipping and we had splitted stuff up into three groups. 1)Driver 2)Arm Operator 3)Robo Coach, then ask the team who wanted to do what. Since only one wanted to be the Robo Coach she became the robo coach. Then for the Driver and Arm Operator we had those candidates drive multiple times, tried a couple of different senerios, tried the different abilities seperatly.

Then we ask the Senors on the team that wanted to drive, if they said yes they got what they wanted or could decide to let a lower class man if they thought they would be better for the team. Then to Juniors, Sophmores and then Freshmen.


Last year we did not have time to try driving the robot so during the practice matches on Thursday we had different pairings of drivers and then at the hotel decided who would be the best for the team.


Last years is not ideal, for two reasons, Reason One-that means we were still having some major bugs that needed to be worked out. Reason Two-They are called practice Matches for a reason, our final drivers did not get much practice in so they couldn't drive at the best of their abilities. That is why this year we picked our drivers before hand so they can practice during the practice matches that way they can drive at a higher ability.

That is what we did and sorry about the story

[Lil' Lavery]

I sadly wasn't present for 1712's driver selection, but it involved driving a previous year's robot and some decisions among the team. Ultimately two drive teams were formed, one of all seniors (Drive Team 1), including a College Senior as coach. Drive Team 2 should all be returning next year, and I am the drive coach for it (College Freshman).

On 116 though we had "try-outs" for all the positions (not sure how they did robocoach this year, other years human player tryouts were pretty straightforward). The driver try-out was typically some form of obstacle course, with that year's robot if it was ready (otherwise a previous robot or practice frame was used). The data from those trials were then taken by the lead mentors, and they used it to decide the drive positions. Since students could try out for more than one position, and chemistry is very important, the top-scorers at each position didn't always get the job (although they typically do). Each student is required to pass a rules test at the beginning of the year, so it's assumed they know the rules, but after they are selected they work together to refresh their memory.
Coach is selected via a combination of an additional rules test, questions regarding strategy, and mock "strategy sessions" where discussions with potential alliance partners are simulated. A mentor watches over these. 116 only uses student coaches.
Both 116 and 1712 use two drivers, one "base driver" who controls the robot, and one "operator" who controls the manipulator(s).

I cannot stress enough how important chemisty on the drive team is important. A drive team who knows eachother's tendancies, trusts eachother, and works together as a well oiled machine is next to unstoppable. I had the pleasure of being on two outstanding drive teams with 116. We were quick and efficient, able to communicate effectively (I can only remember two instances where we had any miscommunication in over 50 matches... and we won both matches anyway). Having a drive team that works well together and giving them time to work and practice with eachother is the number one factor in doing well at competion.

[EricH]

I cannot stress enough how important chemisty on the drive team is important. A drive team who knows eachother's tendancies, trusts eachother, and works together as a well oiled machine is next to unstoppable. [...] Having a drive team that works well together and giving them time to work and practice with eachother is the number one factor in doing well at competion.Bingo. One thing that has made 330 a force the last few years is how well the normal driver and arm driver communicate. When there's a different arm driver, you can tell by their performance.

[Qbranch]

1) How does your team decide who drives?
2) How does your team decide who is the "coach"? Do you have a mentor or student?
3) Do you have one or two drivers? Why?

1) Completely performance based. We finish the machine before ship and hold trials for a day. Each driver pair that signs up gets one battery's worth of runtime to show their stuff in front of our scouting group.

2) Coach is determined by whomever has the most FIRST-hand experience. This year, we have our rockstar driver from all years 2006 and previous for our team.

3) We always have two drivers, though sometimes one doesn't do a whole lot due to automation (i.e. 2006 shooter bot). If there is a functional feature with any kind of complication level it's way too much for one person to handle.

-q

[IbleedPink233]

Our team does anything and everything to decide who will drive. We never finish our robot in time, so we usually have to base driving skill on trials with old robots modded to mock the year's game. We also take a written test on the major sections of the rulebook - usually about 100 questions long. Attitude is a huge factor - especially the willingness to help out the team above oneself. Another crucial factor is what other positions the driver candidates have/would have at the competitions - the goal is not to get the best drivers necessarily, but the best team overall. Good behavior is crucial - drivers are in the spotlight for your team and they must have GP, or your whole team could be reflected poorly.
Our drive coach has been doing it for years now because he is the undisputed master at it on our team. You definitely need someone who understands the game and communicates well above all.

[smurfgirl]

Hey everyone! My team was wondering how yall decided who should drive. This year we had our robot do a series of tasks right before shipping and everyone got a few tries. Whoever completed the "course" fastest was our driver. Unfortunately, this set-up did not take into account understanding of the game, good strategy, robot-to-robot interaction, or the stress of competition.

So I was wondering. . .

1) How does your team decide who drives?
2) How does your team decide who is the "coach"? Do you have a mentor or student?
3) Do you have one or two drivers? Why?

Thanks!

1) First, we determine who is interested in driving. The students who are interested in driving all get an equal opportunity to practice on old robots to get used to driving the base, as well as on our prototype robot, to practice whatever functions are exclusive to each game. We build two robots (one for practice), so we extend this process past when we have shipped the competition bot. A week or two before regionals, we decide on our official drive team. There are some important characteristics that must be taken into consideration:

- Drivers must listen to the coach at all times
- Drivers must work well with each other (good chemistry)
- Drivers must exercise good judgment- we don't want to see reckless or stupid driving on the field
- Drivers must be agile and quick
- Drivers must have a good handle on the rules and game play
- Drivers must have a decent idea of basic strategies the coach will use
- Drivers must know how the robot works
- Drivers must follow all team rules, since they are the most "visible" people during a competition
- Drivers must have x hours of practice on that year's robot (it varies from year to year)

Writing those things out, it seems like we're ridiculously harsh in our driver selection process, but we're not super-rigid about rules. Students who are motivated to read the rules, get familiar with the robot, act appropriately, and practice driving have a good shot at qualifying.

We also choose a back-up drive team, (the next two people who qualify based on these criteria). The back-up drive team is used for if the primary drivers are sick, need a break, are not on their game, etc.

2) We use a similar selection process for coaches (we only do student coaches). Once we've figured out who is interested, they train by instructing the drivers who are practicing on the different robots. Again, there are a lot of characteristics we would like to see in a coach:

- Coach must work well with drive team (good chemistry)
- Coach must be able to think quickly and rationally
- Coach must be able to exercise good judgment in tricky scenarios
- Coach must stay calm and level-headed- no panicking, and no screaming at the drivers
- Coach must have an excellent handle on the rules in the manual- our coaches usually know the rules down to the wording, and the number of the rule (like <G42>)
- Coach must understand game play, and have some pre-determined strategies laid out
- Coach must work well with scouting team to determine strategies based on partners/opponents
- Coach must spend time watching other regionals and analyzing game play to better our own
- Coach must know how the robot works
- Coach must follow all team rules, since (s)he is the most "visible" person during a competition

Again, even though it seems like a lot of rigid stuff listed out, it's not too hard to fit most of these criteria if you actually try. We also choose a back-up coach, (the next person who qualifies based on these criteria). The back-up coach is used for if the primary coach is sick, needs a break, is not on his/her game, etc.

3) As you can tell, we have two drivers. One controls the base of the robot, and one controls whatever game-related piece we have on the robot, like an arm, a claw, an elevator, a shooter, etc. It's easier to split up the tasks so that each person can focus on their own part.

Edit: I thought of something else you might want to take into consideration. You mentioned the stress of the competition as a factor in why your driver selection wasn't quite right. When our drivers are practicing, we crank up distracting music really loud, have our spirit team cheering, spectators, and other various people around the area to simulate a competition. It does distract the drivers a lot, and it definitely helps to prepare them for competition. Also, if you have old robot, you might want to have people driving those robots as well as the new one to "get in the way" just like you'd see at a competition.

[markulrich]

Thank you all very much for the advice. I think the most important thing I've learned from all of your comments is, "make sure the drivers know the rules!"

1) Edit: I thought of something else you might want to take into consideration. You mentioned the stress of the competition as a factor in why your driver selection wasn't quite right. When our drivers are practicing, we crank up distracting music really loud, have our spirit team cheering, spectators, and other various people around the area to simulate a competition. It does distract the drivers a lot, and it definitely helps to prepare them for competition. Also, if you have old robot, you might want to have people driving those robots as well as the new one to "get in the way" just like you'd see at a competition.

Thanks for the specific advice. I guess I've now got a couple more questions for everyone who creates courses to decide who drives.

1) When do you decide who drives? Would you suggest narrowing it to the top 3-4 drivers before kickoff?
2) Do you simulate competition with loud music and spirit teams?
3) Do you have other robots playing defense?
4) Should the "course" be based off of this year's game, or can a general obstacle course with cones and a few complex rules that give it a little more strategy work?

Thanks again for all of your input!

[arhajder]

I believe ideally it should be the programmer. That way hell be able to see where the robot is veering off or some other problem. This way hell be able to make the best judgment. Other than that see who is the best and let them be a secondary or even a primary.

[smurfgirl]

Thank you all very much for the advice. I think the most important thing I've learned from all of your comments is, "make sure the drivers know the rules!"



Thanks for the specific advice. I guess I've now got a couple more questions for everyone who creates courses to decide who drives.

1) When do you decide who drives? Would you suggest narrowing it to the top 3-4 drivers before kickoff?
2) Do you simulate competition with loud music and spirit teams?
3) Do you have other robots playing defense?
4) Should the "course" be based off of this year's game, or can a general obstacle course with cones and a few complex rules that give it a little more strategy work?

Thanks again for all of your input!

1) It depends on the year, but we definitely make the final decision at least two weeks before our first regional, so that the drive team gets some "unlimited" practice time. If you don't have a practice robot, I'd say that you should make the decision by no later than week four of the build season.

I think narrowing the playing field before kickoff sounds like a good idea, since basic driving doesn't change from year to year. This way, your drivers get more practice time in.

2) Like I said before, we do simulate the competition with loud music, spirit, etc. It's good for the spirit team because it gives them a chance to practice, and it's also good for the drivers to get used to the competition environment.

We first started to do this for the 2007 season. In 2006, before the competition simulation, we were ranked 34/41 at our regional, and our spirit team was shy and timid. In 2007, during the first year of simulation, we were ranked 8/49 at our regional, and our spirit team was decently loud. In 2008, during the second year of simulation, we were ranked 1/62 at our regional, and our spirit team was one of the loudest and boldest in the house. I can't promise that the practice is what did it, but they sure seem linked to me.

3) We have other robots playing defense, but not 100% of the time. It's good to let the drivers get the controls down before you throw defense at them. Once they've gotten proficient, slow them up with some increasingly tough d. It pays off bigtime at the regional. Last year, I'm convinced that the only reason we could dodge/fend off other robots and place tubes in <2 seconds was because we practiced it. As the adage goes, practice makes perfect.

4) A general obstacle course with some rules works very well for a driver who controls the base of the robot. We do drills like this to help with agility and speed training. It's great if you've got limited space, too. At the very least, you should try and use a makeshift object so that your "arm" driver can practice their tasks. You want to have done at least some practice on the current game before you show up at your first competition.


Finally, something I realized I forgot to add to my first post- remember to have fun! That's what the FIRST experience should be for you- a lot of fun while doing a lot of learning. (Simulating competitions is especially fun.)

[BigJ]

I believe ideally it should be the programmer. That way hell be able to see where the robot is veering off or some other problem. This way hell be able to make the best judgment. Other than that see who is the best and let them be a secondary or even a primary.

But what if it isnt a software problem?

*all the non-programmers in the topic gasp*

[smurfgirl]

But what if it isnt a software problem?

*all the non-programmers in the topic gasp*

*gasp*

You mean... programmers don't cause all of our teams problems?

(No offense to Billy and Zach- you know that I do appreciate the stuff you do, even if I don't understand it.)

[XXShadowXX]

team drivers should be
-good at driving
-know some grasp of engineering so they can do a on feild fix
-not crumple like alumium foil underpressure
-not need training to drive good, they have to have tallent, like our driver pro-temp. (3rd back up) really stinks, and will need about 3hr of training to work the controls
-humble, a driver with a bad attitude won't drive long, drivers need to accept that their position is one of the last things that first is about, they arn't here to show off, or hold it over peoples head that with out them they can't win, they can be replaced

[ajisjesus]

Our team

1) How does your team decide who drives?

we gave everyone a chance to drive but after close consideration we went with the two most talented and best cooperating duo.. Sam (arm operator) and JJ (driver).. these two drove our robot last year and we decided that it would be best to keep them because they have the experience... when choosing you need to find people who can keep cool and perform well under fire and think clearly when it gets down to those final seconds... (gets mighty tense and stressful during finals)


2) How does your team decide who is the "coach"? Do you have a mentor or student?

This year i was the "coach" last year i was the "human player". Last year our coach was our head advisor. I learned from him what i was supposed to do (scream out the times, stay out of the drivers way, communicate with the other alliance members, etc... I was first pick because i could best communicate with the other alliance members and our drivers...

3) Do you have one or two drivers? Why?

we choose two so that one person didnt have to stress under all the pressure that FIRST comps puts on a person... and because theyre great friends...:D

[Qbranch]

*gasp*

You mean... programmers don't cause all of our teams problems?

(No offense to Billy and Zach- you know that I do appreciate the stuff you do, even if I don't understand it.)

This year is/has been my first and last experience driving... but holding the driver position didn't change my position as software captain.

One negative to this that i've found is how difficult it is to make software changes since you're on the field so often... it makes things a little difficult.

-q

[AustinSchuh]

I believe ideally it should be the programmer.

The funniest part about this statement is that on my team, the lead programmer (different person each year) has been the driver for the last 2 years. For us, it is most likely because the programmer is normally on the sticks the most before the drivers test working out bugs in the code.

To add to the discussion, we give everyone about 2-3 minutes on the sticks after the robot is completed and then have them drive a course in the classroom with me on the disable switch. The mentors then judge them on skill and it goes from there. We have decided that it is best to just decide who the driver is, and then spend the rest of our available time having them practice driving and working with the arm man.

[smurfgirl]

This year is/has been my first and last experience driving... but holding the driver position didn't change my position as software captain.

One negative to this that i've found is how difficult it is to make software changes since you're on the field so often... it makes things a little difficult.

-q

Actually, this is why my team specifically tries to keep each person limited to one major role. We used to have a driver who also did energy management... he was super super busy. Same thing with the pit crew... Same thing with the safety captain... You get the picture. This is why we started to limit people's jobs, so that each person can focus on one thing and get everything straight.

[Uberbots]

*gasp*

You mean... programmers don't cause all of our teams problems?

(No offense to Billy and Zach- you know that I do appreciate the stuff you do, even if I don't understand it.)

No you dont ;)

our driver selection process is pretty much predetermined. Our general policy is what ellen described above, but drivers who drive in the competitions typically are the ones who had developed the most and studied in the previous years.

This year we were especially lucky in having 2 very close friends operating the robot- each knew what the other was going to do before they did it, leading to a very well coordinated drive team.

[647techangel]

[QUOTE=markulrich;722911
1) How does your team decide who drives?
2) How does your team decide who is the "coach"? Do you have a mentor or student?
3) Do you have one or two drivers? Why?
[/QUOTE]

1)for us its usually vets who have been in first for at least 2 years
2)our mentors refuse to do this they say its up to the students, so we pick students who have just joined to give them a feel of FIRST
3)it depends on the game and control board

[Alan Anderson]

I believe ideally it should be the programmer.

Heh. I've been telling everyone on our team lately to never let a programmer -- or a mentor -- drive the robot.

[Viper37]

1) How does your team decide who drives?
We held our first driver try out this year because our previous driver (myself) found myself in mandatory retirement due to the fact that I graduated.

We set up our test fields and previous years robots. We then test the drivers in a variety of situations. Fine control, peripheral vision, navigation, time management, etc..

We also test them under stress. We get a good crowd of students and kids age 6-18 to cheer yell and scream while the drivers are being tested. We also have a Former Marine Drill Sgt. who yells and screams all sorts of colorful things. Its a great way to measure someones breaking point.

2)How does your team decide who is the "coach"? Do you have a mentor or student?
Thats always been an issue for us. In years past the coach was whoever wanted to do it. We don't really have a procedure for coach selection. We usually use a student, but on occasion we have fielded a mentor.

3)Do you have one or two drivers? Why
Two. The task of navigating the robot around a busy and crowded field (IE Rack N Roll) is enough of a task in my opinion. Being a former driver myself, I know for a fact that is a big job. Our second driver is the arm/lift/shooter/operator. This works great for us because the workload is split in half. Also, while the second driver isn't doing anything, he/she can act as an auxiliary coach so to speak.


I hope that helps. :)

[Gboehm]

The driver must have a relationship with the robot, the driver should talk to the robot, speak soft encouraging words to it. Pet names are also a good idea. If the driver does not love the robot, how can the driver learn to trust the robot. The driver-robot relationship is one of love, if you love the robot, she/he will never fail you, she will go that little bit, the limits can be pushed, and she will take ya the distance that equals the amount of love you have for her. I can think of some of the greatest conversations I had with my robot, she never let me down. I loved that robot... It brought a tear to my eye when she was scrapped for parts... :(

[Mike M.]

After being on both sides of an FRC drive team (driver then coach) let me throw in my $0.02 on what it takes to make a successful drive team.

First things first I think that the drive team should be made up of two drivers one who controls the base of the robot and another to control the manipulator of the robot. This allows each person to concentrate on exactly what they need to do, instead of for example the base driver worrying about where the robot is and manipulating an arm at the same time.

The selection of a drive team is a process that really needs to be started as soon as possible so the driver and operator learn how one another thinks and can anticipate the needs and movements of the other. In the end the drive team should be made up of the people who can prove that they can handle the robot the best out on the field. If at all possible it is best to have the drivers work with a robot even if it is not the current years robot. Just getting the drivers stick time will allow them to get used to driving a robot and working as a single unit out of the playing field. If old FRC bots are not available working with a VEX bot is similarly useful.

After giving everyone who wants a turn to try out for the drive team it should start to become apparent who handles the robot well and who works well in at team. Once the field of applicants is beginning to narrow down it become the time to choose the primary drive team and the backup team. It is important to stick with a single drive team throughout a competition that way the drive team gets more and more time with the robot the really gets to meld into a single unit working smoothly with each other and the robot thus letting them have more fun out on the field and also perform better.

The final decision of who is drive team should come down to a number of things. Their actual performance driving the robot. This can be determined anywhere from a simple timed obstacle course or all the way to driving a full up match at a pre-ship competition. Knowledge of the rules must be tested as well. The drivers need know the rule so that they know what they can and cannot do on the field. Also in case something seems off in a match they can go to the head referee and intelligently voice their concern and back it up with knowledge of that years rules. This is can be done with an easy multiple choice quiz of something more challenging such as giving them some scenarios that might occur during the match and have them explain whether or not what occurred was legal or not and why.

A secondary or backup drive team should always be assembled too. This allows in case for some reason one of the primary drivers cannot make it to a match or competition a trained person to jump into the team and make it seem as though nothing has changed. In this respect the backup team should work very close with the primary team to ensure that they do in fact have a good feel for the robot and the other drivers. Lets say you have a driver practice the backups should have almost as much stick time as the primary team does this way if they are called upon driving is already second nature to them. Also it is a very good idea to have the secondary team take one of the practice matches on Thursday of the regional competition so they are used to being down on the field in front of a crowd.

In my experience the coaches that have the greatest impact on the success on the drive teams are the ones that are able to get their drivers to relax when they are behind the glass and just focus on the task at hand and not worry about little things that are not currently affecting that match. Having said this some of the best coaches that I have seen are college students and mentors that were FRC drivers or operators in high school. They have the advantage of knowing exactly what a driver needs and doesn't need to know during a match. 99.9% of the time the drivers don't need to know which way they need to move a joystick. They need information that will allow them to simply carry out what is needed in that match. Example they don't need to know to go left around the track but they do need to know to things like get between team xxx and that red track ball or we've got 10 seconds left drop whatever you are doing and get the other alliance's ball off of the overpass.

It's not quite as evident as in past years but the human player and this year robocoach selection should mirror the driver selection closely. The person that is the best at accomplishing the task that is needed of them should be the one doing it out on the field at competition. As determined by a test using what is required of them to accomplish in that year.

One final word of advice if your drive team isn't having a good time out there it might be time to change the way you are doing things. Remember a happy drive team is a successful one.

MikeM.

[arhajder]

Well our team is not as divided into the various comitteess. Even though we each have our own committee we generally can tell you anything about everything. It was generally about 5 or 6 of us that really worked on the robot while everyone else slacked. But we still believe the programmer is the best person to drive. All it takes is some practice.:)

[Mr.Rush]

We base it upon the work they put in and skill in the operation and repair of the robot as well knowledge of functionality. There a driving test as well as a written test, the problem we have is its hard to keep every one happy with this system.

This year for example our top pairings for Robocoach, and drive team were all from the electronics and programing teams. This made a lot of people complain that these teams had an unfair advantage because they are the first to operate the completed machine. On the other hand they also put in more time on average than any other sub team and did work out side of their chosen fields. In the end the winers won out, the drive team is 1 electronics member, a member of the animation team, and a programmer (the pit crew for finals is made up of two members of the electronics team, and a programmer)