View Full Version : 1114 Launcher
Mike Yaremko
31-03-2008, 19:38
I was at GTR this weekend. Obiviously 1114 dominated. I was just wondering if anybody knew how their launching mechanism worked.
all i know about it is they use some form of a gas shock thats what ive heard.
they are a great team
Aren_Hill
31-03-2008, 19:43
all i know about it is they use some form of a gas shock thats what ive heard.
they are a great team
no gas shocks, no pneumatics
they shoot with the power of 1 fischer price. It pulls back a large linear bearing rod pulling surgical tubing taught. Then they have a pneumatic cylinder that punches the motor out of the powertrain and frees the shooter.
Jonathan Norris
31-03-2008, 19:44
all i know about it is they use some form of a gas shock thats what ive heard.
they are a great team
It's not a gas spring. Its a metal shaft on a linear bearing attached to surgical tubing, the surgical tubing in winched down by a FP (I believe) in a dewalt gearbox. Then they use a dog gear as a clutch.
Edit: looks like I was beat to the 'punch' :P
dtengineering
31-03-2008, 21:10
I was at GTR this weekend. Obiviously 1114 dominated. I was just wondering if anybody knew how their launching mechanism worked.
According to Clarke's third law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke's_three_laws), I believe their entire robot works by magic.
Jason
That sounds about right, maybe little nomes live inside the chasis and work there magic.:D
Way to go at Colorado Winnovation, you guys ted us with your shooter. (I'm sure we would have won if our launcher worked:p )
Jonathan Norris
31-03-2008, 21:30
ohh and another little timbit (you need to be Canadian to get that), the top arm of their roller claw is actually on a bit of a pivot and has a little piston at the end of it, so when they fire I bet they retract the piston to release the pressure on the ball.
Timbit #2: if you look closely they have another mini puncher on the end of their roller claw which they can use to poke the balls off the overpass. I've only ever seen them use this once, its another shaft in a linear bearing connected to a small piston.
Graham Donaldson
31-03-2008, 21:47
ohh and another little timbit (you need to be Canadian to get that)
So it's timbit now, not tidbit? Interesting...I'll have to start using that and confusing all my American friends...and then have them laugh at me when I tell them what it means...oh well.
But ending my ramblings- 1114's shooter was awesome. As Don said in Looking Forward's Week 5 predictions thread,
I saw 25, I saw 103...and 1114 will eat their lunch. I have seen them, they got everything right this year.
It's true. That machine is above and beyond anything I have ever seen- it rivals 25's 2006 robot in excellence- and that robot was GOOD. The winch/crossbow idea sounds interesting- hope a member of 1114 posts with more specific details on how it works.
cziggy343
31-03-2008, 21:51
So it's timbit now, not tidbit? Interesting...I'll have to start using that and confusing all my American friends...and then have them laugh at me when I tell them what it means...oh well.
But ending my ramblings- 1114's shooter was awesome. As Don said in Looking Forward's Week 5 predictions thread,
It's true. That machine is above and beyond anything I have ever seen- it rivals 25's 2006 robot in excellence- and that robot was GOOD. The winch/crossbow idea sounds interesting- hope a member of 1114 posts with more specific details on how it works.
or maybe they will just keep it thier own little secret:cool:
mark johnson
31-03-2008, 21:52
ohh and another little timbit (you need to be Canadian to get that), the top arm of their roller claw is actually on a bit of a pivot and has a little piston at the end of it, so when they fire I bet they retract the piston to release the pressure on the ball.
Timbit #2: if you look closely they have another mini puncher on the end of their roller claw which they can use to poke the balls off the overpass. I've only ever seen them use this once, its another shaft in a linear bearing connected to a small piston.
I GET IT!! WE HAVE TIM HORTONS IN MICHIGAN AND THERE AWSOME!!!
You can find out more info on our launcher on our website at: http://simbotics.org/robot
Alternatively, there's a lot of good info in this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65366
Feel free to ask any specific questions that you might have.
Feel free to ask any specific questions that you might have.
Ok, how does one go about and stop your robot from scoring? :p
s_forbes
31-03-2008, 22:04
I don't think it's necessarily the shooter on Simbotic's robot that makes it work so well, it's the fact that every single part has been worked on and fine tuned to do its job efficiently. The drivetrain is fast, the pick-up is reliable, the auto racks up tons of points. Probably most importantly, their drivers are very skilled. Good driving is an enormous part of the game! If they had a bad driver trying to control it, they would just be just like any of the other dozens of good teams this year.
Lil' Lavery
31-03-2008, 22:22
I GET IT!! WE HAVE TIM HORTONS IN MICHIGAN AND THERE AWSOME!!!
Obviously you haven't been to a Krispy Kreme recently... :rolleyes:
Akash Rastogi
31-03-2008, 22:24
Could we see a pic of that dog gear? That'd be great since I'm still learning a lot of mechanical techniques involved with FIRST robots:)
lukevanoort
31-03-2008, 22:29
Obviously you haven't been to a Krispy Kreme recently... :rolleyes:
I can't speak about the doughnuts and timbits/doughnut holes (never tried the ones at Timmy's), but the coffee is no comparison. Tim Hortons coffee is simply the best you'll ever get at any fast food restaurant.
AustinSchuh
31-03-2008, 22:46
I would imagine the dog gear would work in a very similar way to the dog gear in the AM shifters and look very similar also. The only difference would be that the AM shifter would shift between high gear and low gear, while 1114's arm gearbox would shift between engaged and un-engaged.
I knew it was electric somehow... but... wow that's a nifty idea. I had no idea there was so much stuff behind the little black poky thing you see when you all on 1114 launch. I'm amazed you haven't won any kind of design award for it yet... or have you and I didn't hear?
Change of subject...
Ok, how does one go about and stop your robot from scoring? :p
After playing with 1114 in the finals, and against them once or twice in the seeding matches at MWR, my answer is no, you can't flat out stop them, but you can slow them down (still shocked and awed at how little defensive play there was at GTR).
Any shooter can be slowed down with good defense, and yes, it's possible to do defense without getting flags or penalties or playing dirty.
Unless there's some kind of miracle in which teams end up in which divisions(it sure would be nice!), I think we're going to have one heck of a showdown this year on Einstein...
-q
dtengineering
01-04-2008, 01:09
ohh and another little timbit (you need to be Canadian to get that)....
More specifically... Eastern Canadian. Sure we have Timmy's out here in the west (although not on every second street corner...) but ever since they stopped making their doughnuts fresh they have gone downhill in a sad, sad way. Still, their massive advertising somehow keeps them popular amongst those who need the calories to stay warm while they are shoveling snow.
What was this thread about again? :D
Jason
Nawaid Ladak
01-04-2008, 02:03
Ok, how does one go about and stop your robot from scoring? :p
your thinking the wrong way
the question should be
"how does one go about beating your robot?"
the answer is simple
outscore them or score with them 1:1
(i honestly think there was 1 team that could do this besides 2056 at the Greater Toronto Regional, they were my dark horse team and they were in the finals. unfortunitly, as someone said, bad driving can make a great robot just look good....i think this team might want some driving practice before Atlanta, if one does their research, they will know EXACTLY what team im talking about. I hate to criticize a team that i really like, their team members are really cool, got to know them last year at championships)
EDIT: this is a truly dominating machine, i came in this year thinking... "1114 probably has the biggest target on their backs coming into this season, they better show up", and show up they did. i will never doubt Karthik or Derek again. i think me thinking that motivated them, they read my mind with their magical powers after winning WFA Finals awards...
Yep, and the target on 1114/2056's back just got a bunch bigger for next year... Nobody wants to see them go 3 years in a row taking GTR AND Waterloo together. (Never mind that 1114 are now 4time defending champions of GTR)
Yep, and the target on 1114/2056's back just got a bunch bigger for next year... Nobody wants to see them go 3 years in a row taking GTR AND Waterloo together. (Never mind that 1114 are now 4time defending champions of GTR)
Agreed! We will be trying to top them again....next year. and now that we failed at it this year, I hope they win in Atlanta, not only because they deserve it but, also because then our team can say we lost twice in semis to world champions lol :D
And I think the reason they are so darn good, is mainly because the bot is very well contained (it doesn't break out of the 28x38x5ft box much) so the driver can drive the course without much thought of damaging the bot, not having to worry about arms and stuff getting hung up with other robots or feild elements, greatly increases you driving abilities. That and they have had a billion years of driving that thing (they ALWAYS do a two speed 6 wheel drive)
I love the bot, and how simple it is. I hope it goes all the way this year!
Good luck in Atlanta 1114!
Brandon Holley
01-04-2008, 11:02
I have a question for you karthik.
What is 1114s set up for driver practice/drive training/driver choosing. Obviously you guys have built an incredible machine. However, as many others have said, sometimes a good driver can take a team to the next level. How do you guys handle this part of the team?
Well, I can't say how their driver training etc goes, but I know that Niagara region's school board has given 1114 (and 1503/1680/2056/2166) the keys to a closed elementary school in the area, and they set up a complete field in the gymnasium of the school.
(I think thats all the NiagaraFIRST teams, anyway)
ReaperGoat
01-04-2008, 11:52
I can't speak about the doughnuts and timbits/doughnut holes (never tried the ones at Timmy's), but the coffee is no comparison. Tim Hortons coffee is simply the best you'll ever get at any fast food restaurant.
oh man...for coffee, it's dunkies (dunkin donuts) all the way!:D
(i love the holy trinity of New England...you can't go far in any city without being in viewing range of a Dunkin Donuts (or coffee shop), ATM, or convenience store)
but 1114's shooter is amazing to watch...i'll sit around and pull up video of it when i'm having a slow afternoon
Yep, and the target on 1114/2056's back just got a bunch bigger for next year... Nobody wants to see them go 3 years in a row taking GTR AND Waterloo together. (Never mind that 1114 are now 4time defending champions of GTR)
...in hindsight they were one match from making it 5 in a row(2004)
Great machine guys!
Vince lau
01-04-2008, 11:54
Agreed! We will be trying to top them again....next year. and now that we failed at it this year, I hope they win in Atlanta, not only because they deserve it but, also because then our team can say we lost twice in semis to world champions lol :D
And I think the reason they are so darn good, is mainly because the bot is very well contained (it doesn't break out of the 28x38x5ft box much) so the driver can drive the course without much thought of damaging the bot, not having to worry about arms and stuff getting hung up with other robots or feild elements, greatly increases you driving abilities. That and they have had a billion years of driving that thing (they ALWAYS do a two speed 6 wheel drive)
I love the bot, and how simple it is. I hope it goes all the way this year!
Good luck in Atlanta 1114!
they also have done tank tread in 05 and 06 i think
they also have done tank tread in 05 and 06 i think
'06 was there only year with treads. check it out on their website (http://www.simbotics.org/robot)
Kinda inquisitive as to how they broke so many treads that year, but still a great robot.
they also have done tank tread in 05 and 06 i think
Only 06.
lukevanoort
01-04-2008, 12:02
That and they have had a billion years of driving that thing (they ALWAYS do a two speed 6 wheel drive)
they also have done tank tread in 05 and 06 i think
03 was some kind of 4WD, 04 was a two wheel swerve, 05 was a 6WD, 06 was treads, and 07+08 were both 6WD. Personally, I'm hoping that SimSwerve v2.0 is made sometime soon.
I doubt it will happen... 6wd is just too versatile... Although I'd love to watch any of their 6wd bots outpush our treaded monsters. I have yet to see any robot or human be able to stop our continually perfecting drivetrain in lowgear. Of course, for this year, thats mostly useless.
I have a question for you karthik.
What is 1114s set up for driver practice/drive training/driver choosing. Obviously you guys have built an incredible machine. However, as many others have said, sometimes a good driver can take a team to the next level. How do you guys handle this part of the team?
In terms of driver selection, most of it is outlined here:
http://simbotics.org/files/first-robotics-canada/workshop-presentations/runteam.pdf starting on slide 25.
We look for three main qualities in our drivers, in the following order: Maturity, Communication, Skill/Talent. Having a mature driver who you know you can always depend on and who can handle the immense pressure is critical to a team's success. In addition good communication with the rest of the drive team, especially the field coach is an absolute must. Our approach on driver selection is very different than most teams, but we've found that it works very well for us.
In regards to practice and training, our driveteam practices for at least two hours a day, often more. Early on in the season they focus on the basics of gameplay, and 2:00 runs. As the season progresses, the sessions shift towards drills involving specific situations.
Well, I can't say how their driver training etc goes, but I know that Niagara region's school board has given 1114 (and 1503/1680/2056/2166) the keys to a closed elementary school in the area, and they set up a complete field in the gymnasium of the school.
This year the field was only used by 1114, 1503 and 2056. 2166 tried to make it down to practice with us, but the scheduling just didn't work out. We make our field open to any team who wishes to use it.
Ah, well, I knew the NiagaraFIRST alliance was sharing that field, my mistake.
Say Karthik, do you guys have like a machine shop set up in that school, or do you do all the work at Gov.Simcoe, and drag the robot to the field to practice?
Alex Cormier
01-04-2008, 12:32
In terms of driver selection, most of it is outlined here:
http://simbotics.org/files/first-robotics-canada/workshop-presentations/runteam.pdf starting on slide 25.
We look for three main qualities in our drivers, in the following order: Maturity, Communication, Skill/Talent. Having a mature driver who you know you can always depend on and who can handle the immense pressure is critical to a team's success. In addition good communication with the rest of the drive team, especially the field coach is an absolute must. Our approach on driver selection is very different than most teams, but we've found that it works very well for us.
In regards to practice and training, our driveteam practices for at least two hours a day, often more. Early on in the season they focus on the basics of gameplay, and 2:00 runs. As the season progresses, the sessions shift towards drills involving specific situations.
This year the field was only used by 1114, 1503 and 2056. 2166 tried to make it down to practice with us, but the scheduling just didn't work out. We make our field open to any team who wishes to use it.
Hmm, I have to try some of that next year. The link you have doesn't work with me right now and I am using firefox. Could it just be the school's network I am on that doesn't allow me to open it?
I just read through it... it was fairly slow to load... its an adobe acrobat file. I too am using firefox.
Alex Cormier
01-04-2008, 12:38
I just read through it... it was fairly slow to load... its an adobe acrobat file. I too am using firefox.
I get a few pop up errors.
Tom Bottiglieri
01-04-2008, 12:47
http://simbotics.org/files/first-robotics-canada/workshop-presentations/runteam.pdf starting on slide 25.
How have I never seen these workshops!?!?
Great resource!
Say Karthik, do you guys have like a machine shop set up in that school, or do you do all the work at Gov.Simcoe, and drag the robot to the field to practice?
During the build season, all work is done at Governor Simcoe, and the robots are dragged back and forth. Once build season is over, the practice robot lives at the practice facility (dubbed LB2 by 1114), and we bring everything that we would bring to compeition, along with some other tools to LB2. At times it's a bit of logistical hassle, with LB2 being 20 minutes from Governor Simcoe. Prior to this year, our practice facility (LB1) was within walking distance of Simcoe.
Eh, I'd still take a 20 minute away proper facility over the pathetic mockups we make every year.
Brandon Holley
01-04-2008, 13:17
How have I never seen these workshops!?!?
Great resource!
ditto, thanks again karthik.
did you ever find those videos of your '04 bot in action ??? ;) I love that bot
A huge thanks Karthik AND Ian. I read Ian's strafing paper for an FTC prototype but for FRC we wanted to try a high speed shifter instead of omni drive train.
There are a lot of words in all of those documents that communicate the way I've been thinking for a while but have been unable to concisely put into words for the team I mentor. These documents will be a most invaluable resource for the rest of this year and all of next year. See you guys in Atlanta!
Protronie
03-04-2008, 18:53
oh man...for coffee, it's dunkies (dunkin donuts) all the way!:D
(i love the holy trinity of New England...you can't go far in any city without being in viewing range of a Dunkin Donuts (or coffee shop), ATM, or convenience store)
YES!!!!!!! Ohhhh how I miss Dunkies coffee!
And Cumberland Farms, and Hot Dog Charlie's.....
All I can say about 1114... awesome robot. Its going to take a powerhouse to beat them... I hope they team up with 1024 @ Big A cause them two playing against each other.... whooooo what a battle!
Rick TYler
03-04-2008, 19:55
This year the field was only used by 1114, 1503 and 2056. 2166 tried to make it down to practice with us, but the scheduling just didn't work out. We make our field open to any team who wishes to use it.
Practice, practice, practice. I know of at least one team that wore the traction tread off its wheels at 1983's practice field in Seattle. The team I'm thinking of had a fairly modest robot, but it worked as designed the full 140 seconds of every match, and had a very smooth, competent drive team. I'm starting to think that a full-sized practice field is one of the five or six things a team NEEDS to be successful.
I was just looking through the schedule for the FIRST Robotics Conference, and saw that Karthik is doing a presentation on Effective Strategies for FRC Robots on Wednesday night at 7:00. If this is the presentation (or close to) the presentation of his that I've seen, it's possibly the best use of 45 minutes your team could ever spend. If you want an inside view into how 1114 functions, this is your chance.
AustinSchuh
03-04-2008, 20:35
I was just looking through the schedule for the FIRST Robotics Conference, and saw that Karthik is doing a presentation on Effective Strategies for FRC Robots on Wednesday night at 7:00. If this is the presentation (or close to) the presentation of his that I've seen, it's possibly the best use of 45 minutes your team could ever spend. If you want an inside view into how 1114 functions, this is your chance.
Will this presentation be online in any format for those of us who can't make it?
Will this presentation be online in any format for those of us who can't make it?
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it already is. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=712561&postcount=22)
Practice is a great part of a successful run. We don't have a carpet to
practice on so we have to run on linoleum at our school. Hard to tune
autonomous on that or do drive practice with all the slipping around.
We are hoping to do some practice on carpet this weekend at a
another elementary school.
Karthik's team has it down. 2 hours of practice a day makes for good
teamwork. We owe a lot of this years success to having one of our
old drivers being a mentor now. He knows the ropes and helps not only our team
but at Cleveland he was jumping between teams on our finals. Coordination is key.
Nothing wrong with having a killer launcher like 1114 either though.
Mike Harrison
03-04-2008, 21:58
We make our field open to any team who wishes to use it.
How does next thursday sound to you guys? I'm sure you and Paul could work something out. :D
How does next thursday sound to you guys? I'm sure you and Paul could work something out. :D
If you guys want to make the drive, we'll open the doors for a good SimChicken practice session. Paul's already been by once this year, I'm sure you can convince him to come again.
Having taken home half of the carpet from GTR, hopefully now 1075 can get some decent practice done in our facility, and should be able to avoid this year's occurence of going to 188's facility the week before ship, only to find that our gear ratio was too high, and we were killing batteries in LITERALLY seconds.
=Martin=Taylor=
04-04-2008, 20:55
On a completely irrelevant note (;) ) how has 1114 been doing in terms of Vex this year? I kinda want to see that robot too while I'm in Atlanta. :)
Pat Fairbank
04-04-2008, 21:58
On a completely irrelevant note (;) ) how has 1114 been doing in terms of Vex this year? I kinda want to see that robot too while I'm in Atlanta. :)
I have some pictures of 1114's Vex 'bot that I'll put up closer to the Championship (to respect their desire for secrecy).
Doug Leppard
05-04-2008, 09:21
Excellent job team 1114. Your papers are excellent. People tend to see the robot what they don’t see is the infrastructure behind it to make it successful.
Question, how do you tell which of the 6 spots to hit the balls in hybrid mode? We use the IR, how do you do it?
Michael DiRamio
05-04-2008, 10:37
Question, how do you tell which of the 6 spots to hit the balls in hybrid mode? We use the IR, how do you do it?
We also use the IR to inform the robot where the balls are in hybrid. The program assumes the balls are in the middle lanes and commands from the robocoach override this with different ball locations.
Doug Leppard
05-04-2008, 11:02
We also use the IR to inform the robot where the balls are in hybrid. The program assumes the balls are in the middle lanes and commands from the robocoach override this with different ball locations.
That is the way we do it. On each side if IR not pushed than it goes for that one by default. But your hybird mode is so much better, my hybrid hat is off to your team.
Pat Fairbank
15-04-2008, 23:07
I have some pictures of 1114's Vex 'bot that I'll put up closer to the Championship (to respect their desire for secrecy).
As promised, here are some photos (http://picasaweb.google.com/patfair/3391114SimboticsVexRobot) of the 1114 Vex robot that I took at one of their practice sessions (before they got the pretty side panels on). Based on the way they dominated the Ontario FTC Championship, I would be surprised if they didn't win a third consecutive world championship. :ahh:
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