Random question about the history of team numbers

[XaulZan11]

Does anyone know if all the numbers are used to assign teams? I was told that number such as 911 and 666 were not used, but do not believe him. So, can anyone settle our debate ($5 is on the line)?

[scipio]

seems logical that 666 would not be seeing as all of the negative connotations that go along with it. and it would sound odd to be hearing people chant 9 11.

[bbr4d3r]

You could prob figure this out by going to thebluealliance.net or wiki.chiefdelphi.com

[Akash Rastogi]

A simple visit to thebluealliance.net says no to both. They were never teams.

[pjamma]

not necessarily, what if the teams disbanded before 2006? then thebluealliance.net wouldnt have them

[XaulZan11]

A simple visit to thebluealliance.net says no to both. They were never teams.

yes, I went to thebluealliance.net but wasn't sure if that means they were never a team or not a team within the past 3 years (which is as far back as bluealliance goes)

[Akash Rastogi]

yes, I went to thebluealliance.net but wasn't sure if that means they were never a team or not a team within the past 3 years (which is as far back as bluealliance goes)

True, i forgot when that was started.

[Michelle Celio]

A simple visit to thebluealliance.net says no to both. They were never teams.

not necessarily, what if the teams disbanded before 2006? then thebluealliance.net wouldnt have them

You could prob figure this out by going to thebluealliance.net or wiki.chiefdelphi.com
Using the team list would be a more reliable source.

666: https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=666&event_type=FRC
911: https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=911&event_type=FRC

FIRST has no data for either. Just change the team name in the URL to get the data you need.

[XaulZan11]

Using the team list would be a more reliable source.

666: https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=666&event_type=FRC
911: https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=911&event_type=FRC

FIRST has no data for either. Just change the team name in the URL to get the data you need.

There is also no page for 3 and 15, just to name a few.

[Chris Marra]

Using the team list would be a more reliable source.

666: https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=666&event_type=FRC
911: https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=911&event_type=FRC

FIRST has no data for either. Just change the team name in the URL to get the data you need.
Indeed, the entire TBA information database scrapes data off of the FIRST website and has doneso since ~Summer 2007, so if they don't have it we don't have it. Although FIRST does include disbanded teams for award / attendance purposes, they are sometimes unreliable on data (Team 1547 (https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index.lasso?page=teaminfo&team=1547&event_type=FRC), Waldo, did not win Regional Woodie Flowers @ Israel in 2006 - 1574 did). So their data should be taken with a grain of salt for details, but for overall team existence, ought to be fine.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'm not sure about 911, but there was never a 666. Given the lack of usfirst.com page for 911, I would tend to think there was never a 911 either. 3 and 15 can be explained for the fact there are no pages for teams that were defunct before around 2002ish (not sure exact year when current FIRST incarnation of TIMS data was displayed on FIRST website). Teams like 225, 616, and 510 who have become defunct recently still have pages.

[Branden Ghena]

Team 1337 isn't on there, despite rumors that it was in Germany.

I find it odd, however that there is no 1338 listed. Does that mean they disbanded without winning any awards?

[lukevanoort]

The FIRST website does not have data for teams that they consider disbanded (I believe the criteria is inactive for at least three years). For example, team 72, the original FIRST team in North Carolina, is not in FIRST's database anymore. In fact, you'll notice that there are a huge number of low team numbers for which the FIRST database has no data.

[Cow Bell Solo]

There was no information about a team 666 or 911 on FIRSTwiki

[JP1251]

I looked that up on the first wiki one day and actually came across this article. http://www.firstwiki.net/index.php/Team_number If you read the last line it says that team numbers 666 and 911 were never assigned.

[Nawaid Ladak]

i know for a FACT that there was never a 666 because FIRST would not give that number

My mentor called and made a special request for that number (666) :-P, FIRST refused to give that number so he got 665 instead, (which then was PHAT, now is known as MEYHAM).

was there ever a team 13?, he mentioned FIRST never gave that number out either...

[EricH]

was there ever a team 13?, he mentioned FIRST never gave that number out either...Not listed on FIRSTWiki.

[Joe Ross]

i know for a FACT that there was never a 666 because FIRST would not give that number

My mentor called and made a special request for that number (666) :-P, FIRST refused to give that number so he got 665 instead, (which then was PHAT, now is known as MEYHAM).

was there ever a team 13?, he mentioned FIRST never gave that number out either...

Team 13 did exist: http://web.archive.org/web/20001119220100/www.usfirst.org/1998comp/teamlist.html

[Mark McLeod]

Yep, here's some more team info. from the old FIRST databases without all the missing parts http://www.team358.org/files/team_lookup/
As Chris pointed out we know of lots of FIRST data entry errors, but nothing major. Some rookie years messed up, events & awards mislabeled.

Team 13:

Team Number: 13
Team Name: Baxter Healthcare Corporation & Johnsburg HS & Lake County Technical Campus
Location: Round Lake, IL, US
Rookie Year: 1996
Awards Won:
1998 IL Best Play of the Day Award
1997 N1 Proctor & Gamble Creativity Award
1997 IL Best Offensive Round

Events Attended:
1998 IL
1998 N1
1997 N1
1997 IL
1996 N1


Team 3

Team Number: 3
Team Name: Advance Transformer Company & Broadhead HS & Monroe Senior HS
Location: WI, US
Rookie Year: 1997
Events Attended:
1998 IL
1998 N1
1997 N1
1997 IL


Team 15:

Team Number: 15
Team Name: Baxter Fenwal San German & Lola Rodriguez De Tio HS
Location: San German, PR, US
Team Motto: When you believe in yourself there are no limits!
Robot Name: Coqui
Rookie Year: 1997
Awards Won:
2000 LI Most Photogenic Award
2000 LI #1 Seed
1999 FL Xerox Creativity Award
1999 N1 Outstanding Defense
1997 N1 Most Photogenic Award
1997 IL DaimlerChrysler Team Spirit Award

Events Attended:
2000 N1
2000 LI
1999 N1
1999 FL
1998 N1
1998 IL
1997 N1
1997 IL



Team 1337 registered but never competed:

Team Number: 1337
Team Name: Gymnasium der Mariannhiller Missionare
Location: Reken, NRW, DE
Robot Name: Sir Anthony
Rookie Year: 2004


Team 1338:

Team Number: 1338
Team Name: Lockheed Martin/NASA/Ball Aerospace/Hewlett Packard/Information Handling Systems/Dillon Software/University of Denver/Lander Dental/General Electric Rail & Eaglecrest High School
Location: Aurora, CO, US
Team Motto: Raptors Rule
Robot Name: Raptor 1
Rookie Year: 2004
Events Attended:
2004 Colorado Regional


Team 72:

Team Number: 72
Team Name: Harding University HS/ Precision Dynamics
Location: NC, US
Rookie Year: 1997
Events Attended:
1998 N1
1997 N1

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I think it is important to note that team #'s in 1998 were assigned by sponsor. Thus all Motorola teams were in the first and second decade above 100. Thus team 111 was in the middle of the 108-113 range.

[IndySam]

Number 911 would have been handed out to a rookie team for the 2002 season.


I wonder if that number was assigned to a team pre-9/11 in 2001 and then changed after 9/11?

[Mark McLeod]

Number 911 would have been handed out to a rookie team for the 2002 season.
I wonder if that number was assigned to a team pre-9/11 in 2001 and then changed after 9/11?

Team numbers were only up to 716 in the 2001 season.

[GaryVoshol]

That's what he said. Teams 717-999 were rookies in 2002. Those numbers were beginning to be assigned in late 2001 as teams signed up.

[Mark McLeod]

I just checked our database and there are 216 team numbers (from 1 to 2681) that have never been assigned (from the era of permanent team numbers in 1998 onwards).
I recall that some of the unused numbers were reserved and used for database testing by FIRST. At least based on the fake entries found in them.

That's what he said. Teams 717-999 were rookies in 2002. Those numbers were beginning to be assigned in late 2001 as teams signed up.
Sorry, I wasn't paying close enough attention...
Registration wasn't open for 2002 until after 9-11 and the tragedy.
New teams signing up probably didn't near the 911 mark until mid-November, a couple of months later.

In any case team #911 was never assigned.

[Molten]

I just did a quick google for team 666 and got this http://www.myspace.com/aubinhick990

I just thought it interesting.

[GaryVoshol]

I just checked our database and there are 216 team numbers (from 1 to 2680) that have never been assigned (from the era of permanent team numbers in 1998 onwards).2681 is the highest team number assigned.

As you probably know, FIRST started rookies at 2330 this year, skipping numbers 2288-2329. Does the 216 missing numbers you noted include those 42?

Missing from the FIRST "what's in my area" page for current year (rookie) teams are 2331, 2350, 2351, 2356, 2357. 2379, 2384, 2392, 2416, 2426, 2442, 2451, 2452, 2482, 2492, 2494, 2507, 2516, 2519, 2527, 2541, 2548, 2552, 2578, 2610, 2615, 2616, 2631, 2636, 2639, 2646, 2651, 2666, 2671 and 2677. I suspect most of these are teams that registered, but then could not come up with funds to compete. Many can be found if you type the number into the "myarea" "teaminfo" page; they have no regionals assigned.

At least some of them are listed in TBA with regionals attached.

2331 was the original number given to 1025 when we registered. Later it was decided that we were not a rookie team, and were reassigned as number 1025. We appear in TBA as both 1025 and 2331. I heard that there were 5 such teams that were determined not to be rookies. (When registering in TIMS it doesn't give you the option to state rookie status, just returning or new team.)

[Matt C]

I wonder if they will ever return to the low numbers that were left behind by teams reactivating as rookie teams and teams that never competed.

[Vikesrock]

I wonder if they will ever return to the low numbers that were left behind by teams reactivating as rookie teams and teams that never competed.

I hope not, I find it quite useful to be able to get a rough idea of how long a team has been around by their team number (a # under 200 means the "rough idea" is "a long time"). I think it would be a bit odd to see a rookie team show up at a competition next year with a number under 2681.

[EricH]

I wonder if they will ever return to the low numbers that were left behind by teams reactivating as rookie teams and teams that never competed.They do on occasion. Team 39 is one example.

It usually happens when a team breaks up into new teams that have competed before and don't want to be rookies again. What usually happens is that FIRST goes into the pool of numbers available and says, "OK, here's a 'new' number."

[Mark McLeod]

2681 is the highest team number assigned.

My apologies to Brooklyn :)


As you probably know, FIRST started rookies at 2330 this year, skipping numbers 2288-2329. Does the 216 missing numbers you noted include those 42?

Yes. It is simply a count of the numbers that have never been associated with anyone. There are similar blocks of unused numbers throughout the span of teams, however, they don't all align with breaks in registration years.


Missing from the FIRST "what's in my area" page for current year (rookie) teams are 2331, 2350, 2351, 2356, 2357. 2379, 2384, 2392, 2416, 2426, 2442, 2451, 2452, 2482, 2492, 2494, 2507, 2516, 2519, 2527, 2541, 2548, 2552, 2578, 2610, 2615, 2616, 2631, 2636, 2639, 2646, 2651, 2666, 2671 and 2677. I suspect most of these are teams that registered, but then could not come up with funds to compete. Many can be found if you type the number into the "myarea" "teaminfo" page; they have no regionals assigned.

Some of them were teams that started registration, but dropped out. Others are numbers that were skipped and never actively assigned. Our database tracks those teams too. We like to keep track of teams that tried to happen.
Your original team number 2331 is an exception. Since you "relocated" we did remove the original entry from the public database. We may end up putting it back. The webmaster is contemplating additional history information, such as how some teams changed numbers over the years.


I heard that there were 5 such teams that were determined not to be rookies.

I think teams 509, 1025 and 1988 are the non-rookie rookies who survived.
Another one, Team 916, failed to launch. This from our pre-kickoff thread on registration.

[CJMyers]

Question for rookie teams over 2668. Team 2668 registered 2 weeks after the deadline for the last payment. I'd like to know when team 2681 registered.

[Mark McLeod]

I'd like to know when team 2681 registered.
They showed up on January 15.
32 days after you registered.

(databases are cool :) )

[Racer26]

Wow... FIRST's youngest rookie team was started AFTER kickoff? Thats impressive.

EDIT: Well, they're not REALLY rookie's, being that they're a breakaway from 354.

[aksimhal]

Wow... FIRST's youngest rookie team was started AFTER kickoff? Thats impressive.

EDIT: Well, they're not REALLY rookie's, being that they're a breakaway from 354.
They're not the only ones. A couple rookie team's have been "breakaways" from older teams.

[XXShadowXX]

I wonder if they will ever return to the low numbers that were left behind by teams reactivating as rookie teams and teams that never competed.

no they don't all the lower number were assigned a school keeps it's number even if it goes inactive for several years.
Our one mentor is from team 1286 and his team disbanded if they stayed disbanded for 2 more years they could be rookies in 2010, but they would still have the number 1286... its werid

[EricH]

no they don't all the lower number were assigned a school keeps it's number even if it goes inactive for several years.
Our one mentor is from team 1286 and his team disbanded if they stayed disbanded for 2 more years they could be rookies in 2010, but they would still have the number 1286... its weridTeam 4? Team 39? Both were teams in other places than SoCal and Arizona, I'm sure. They went inactive for several years. Then other teams needed non-rookie numbers. Guess what?

[Mark McLeod]

Team 4? Team 39? Both were teams in other places than SoCal and Arizona, I'm sure.

Actually, no they weren't.
Those team numbers were not assigned from 1998 on until the current teams received them. You can see they weren't assigned in 1998 by Joe Ross's link to the 1998 team list. We might be able to figure out who the numbers were planned for, but those teams never materialized and they became the first of the skipped numbers.

So far I haven't seen evidence of any old team numbers being reassigned although I've looked for several years now.
All the recent low number teams are getting numbers that have never been used in the era of permanent team numbers.

P.S.
Other numbers from that initial 1998 block that have not yet been assigned to any team include:
51, 78, 156, 193 and 199

[Mark McLeod]

Our one mentor is from team 1286 and his team disbanded if they stayed disbanded for 2 more years they could be rookies in 2010, but they would still have the number 1286... its werid
Retaining the same team number after three years is up to FIRST of course, however, they have a history of giving teams new numbers, so his school may not retain their old number unless a significant percentage of original members return.

These are Long Island teams because I'm most interested in my local friends, but...

Team 273 dropped out for one year and FIRST made them take a new number 514 in 2001.

194 returned as 271
567 returned as 1546
646 returned as 2487
778 returned as 2476

[XXShadowXX]

maybe he requested that idk

[Mark McLeod]

I hope he doesn't wait out two more years just to see!
Are you guys trying to help restart that team?
There's a great service project for you.

[The Lucas]

They're not the only ones. A couple rookie team's have been "breakaways" from older teams.

Usually, breakaways from vets don't take rookie numbers like 424 (from 340), 70 (from 494). I guess it is their choice.

[GaryVoshol]

Usually, breakaways from vets don't take rookie numbers like 424 (from 340), 70 (from 494). I guess it is their choice. No, it is not their choice. FIRST has a list of criteria which determine rookie status. When teams split off, it depends on how many student members of the new team participated in the past. See http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=6632