2009 Championships

[Macdaddy549]

Where do YOU want the championships next year? Atlanta, Vegas, Disney.....

[Danny McC]

Well its already booked so does it matter? But if I had my choice I'd say Disney.

[Elgin Clock]

Connecticut.

It would be nice if everyone came to party in my backyard one year, rather than me going to theirs, or meeting everyone somewhere far. lol :yikes:



In all seriousness though, I like Atlanta, and have yet to do everything I want to do down there, so if it were there for at least a couple more years I wouldn't mind.


Then eventually Vegas. But that's only because I've never been there.
But I can just go to the regional there as well, so it's kind of pointless to have the Championship Event there just because I haven't been there before.

[IndySam]

You better add St. Louis and Indianapolis to your list.

[waialua359]

Well its already booked so does it matter? But if I had my choice I'd say Disney.

I thought it was a 5 year contract that ends this year in Atlanta.
Anyone know any more details?
Would be interesting if FIRST was planning to have it elsewhere.
How about Hawaii? :D

[Laaba 80]

Well its already booked so does it matter? But if I had my choice I'd say Disney.

Is it booked for next year? I didnt know that. I know they had a deal with Atlanta to do it there for 5 years, and this is the 5th year its been there. I do like Atlanta, however I guess I wouldnt mind it being somewhere else for a few years. I dont really care where its held.
Joey

[Danny McC]

I thought it was a 5 year contract that ends this year in Atlanta.
Anyone know any more details?
Would be interesting if FIRST was planning to have it elsewhere.
How about Hawaii? :D

04/15/09 - 04/18/09 On the Georgia Dome calendar. I would love it they moved it though I wannna see more places. Hawaii sounds good.

[XXShadowXX]

detroit
hey the city sucks but all the teams that it is close to also the business would be good for the city
the best states to have it in would be
by teams in or bordering said state

new york 313
california 219
michigan 209
georgia 97(?)

as you can see based on team density georgia is very low on the list....

[TD78]

detroit
as you can see based on team density georgia is very low on the list....

there are lots more factors than team density to consider:

-major international airport.
-venue large enough to house both 5 full playing fields plus FTC fields.
-either same or separate facility to house pits for 300+ FRC teams, 100 FTC teams, FLL teams, plus pit admin, practice fields, etc.
-enough hotels in close proximity (walking distance) to house 500+ teams (students, teachers, parents, mentors) plus VIPs and staff.
-enough restaurants and food places in the area to feed above mentioned people for a week.
-entertainment in the area to keep teams entertained at night (ie. Georgia Aquarium, Braves games, etc).

I've enjoyed all my stays in Atlanta, so I won't mind if they keep going back. A change would be nice, but considering all that Atlanta has going for them (from the list above), I don't see the need to change.

[brentmcjunkin]

I would like to go to vegas but also disney would be nice but they have already booked it

[A_Reed]

FIRST already outgrew Disney and what they could offer in terms of space, I would have loved to see it. They changed it my freshman year in FIRST, when it moved to Huston instead.

[Cartwright]

This is definitely a very biased comment, but I think that Indianapolis would be a pretty logical choice (so would St. Louis). Though I liked Atlanta last year, it really isn't a very central location. By next year (I think), Indy will have a nice new stadium perfect for FIRST. The city has a nice sized International Airport, and several major interstate highways that could draw teams from any direction. Prices in Indy are not crazy high either. And...it's location is in the heart of country. It's not a giant distant from the east coast. It's right next door to Michigan, and just south of Canada. However, the West Coast is quite a ways away, but there aren't a lot of places more central. St. Louis wouldn't be bad either though.

[The Lucas]

there are lots more factors than team density to consider:

-major international airport.
-venue large enough to house both 5 full playing fields plus FTC fields.
-either same or separate facility to house pits for 300+ FRC teams, 100 FTC teams, FLL teams, plus pit admin, practice fields, etc.
-enough hotels in close proximity (walking distance) to house 500+ teams (students, teachers, parents, mentors) plus VIPs and staff.
-enough restaurants and food places in the area to feed above mentioned people for a week.
-entertainment in the area to keep teams entertained at night (ie. Georgia Aquarium, Braves games, etc).

I've enjoyed all my stays in Atlanta, so I won't mind if they keep going back. A change would be nice, but considering all that Atlanta has going for them (from the list above), I don't see the need to change.

I know this thread has certainly been done before (I suggest everyone who is truly interested to search and read), but it is always something interesting to talk about.

It should also have warm weather since that is most team's preference for the beginning of spring.

Remember that one of the reasons Atlanta has all these things is due to them hosting the Summer Olympics, so we are basically using their setup. Not many places have a covered stadium and convention center so close together (yes I know Indy's RCA Dome & CC would work but see my warm weather point). Anyone who went to Houston knows how well 2 stadiums work :P

Disney was incredible, but everything (stadium and pit) had to be built for us every year in that parking lot. The Championship is too big for that now. The Wide World of Sports in Disney World could certainly accommodate us, but I don't see that happening for a variety of reasons including scheduling too late in their season.

[Rick TYler]

FIRST already outgrew Disney and what they could offer in terms of space, I would have loved to see it.

The Orange County (Florida) Convention Center is the second-biggest in the country and is only about eight or nine miles from Disney World:

Size
Center Location (in square feet)
1. McCormick Place Chicago 2.2 million
2. Orange County Orlando 2.05 million
Convention Center
3. Las Vegas Las Vegas 1.94 million
Convention Center
4. Georgia World Atlanta 1.37 million
Congress Center
5. Kentucky Exposition Center Louisville 1.29 million
6. Sands Expo & Center Las Vegas 1.13 million
7. Ernest N. Morial New Orleans 1.1 million
Convention Center
8. Dallas Convention Center Dallas 1.02 million
9. Pennsylvania Farm Show Harrisburg 1 million
Complex & Expo Center
10. George R. Brown Houston 930,000
Convention Center

[d.courtney]

Canada? I mean it would be great to see the Championships to an international event change which country its in every now and then. Then after its been to Canada, we could have it in Brazil or Isreal.

btw I don't actually see this ever happening(unless the structure of FIRST events or demographics of its teams changes dramatically).

[A_Reed]

Anyone who went to Houston knows how well 2 stadiums work :P

yeah I hope that was a joke, as I remember it was uphill both ways to and from the pits, lol.

[Karthik]

I'm a large proponent of having the Championship in Las Vegas. There are numerous air and hotel packages which are ridiculously cheap, since there's the assumption that any money saved on the package will be spent gambling and/or entertainment. Even though it's a longer flight from the east coast, it's fairly easy to find comparable flight costs compared to Atlanta, Orlando or Indianapolis.

If you look at the list posted by Tom here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=728656&postcount=9), you'll see that Las Vegas meets all of the criteria. Plus in Vegas, you're close to guaranteed not to be having the frigid nights we've had in Atlanta the past few years.

Viva Las Vegas!

[The Lucas]

yeah I hope that was a joke, as I remember it was uphill both ways to and from the pits, lol.

Runaway robot carts were a major hazard on those ramps :eek: . It took so long to get back and forth, you had no pit time and some times had to work on the robot while moving.

Viva Las Vegas!

I've never been to Vegas, only Reno. It is certainly a candidate that I think most would be happy with. I think the only oppositions would be gambling related as usual.

[Koko Ed]

Remember that one of the reasons Atlanta has all these things is due to them hosting the Summer Olympics, so we are basically using their setup. Not many places have a covered stadium and convention center so close together (yes I know Indy's RCA Dome & CC would work but see my warm weather point). Anyone who went to Houston knows how well 2 stadiums work :P


Walking.
Hurt.
Alot.

[mathking]

The RCA Dome in Indianapolis would be a great facility. They have the capacity to have everything under one roof with the stadium and convention center. And it's not like Indianapolis is freezing cold in April. The average high temperature for the third weekend in April is 65, compared to 74 for Atlanta. (Data from NOAA.) The real question is finding a venue that works for FIRST and that wants FIRST. There really aren't going to be that many places with a setup conducive to hosting the championships. You pretty much have to look for large domed stadiums that have considerable attached space. I love Atlanta as a venue, and I don't mind going, but moving the championships around some would not be bad.

[RMiller]

Some of the volunteers at MN came up with what I thought was a great idea. Have major cities bid on hosting similar to the Olympics. That would include the venue and places for celebrations.
I personally think that Minneapolis has a lot going for it. Either hosting at the U (similar to this past weekend, but also using the hockey rinks) or over near downtown with the Dome (they are all of two mi or so apart). What would really seal the deal is if we could order up a snow storm for the weekend so we could introduce all of you from the south to a nice Minnesota spring storm (we had about 6-10 inches fall yesterday!)

[waialua359]

I'm a large proponent of having the Championship in Las Vegas. There are numerous air and hotel packages which are ridiculously cheap, since there's the assumption that any money saved on the package will be spent gambling and/or entertainment. Even though it's a longer flight from the east coast, it's fairly easy to find comparable flight costs compared to Atlanta, Orlando or Indianapolis.

If you look at the list posted by Tom here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=728656&postcount=9), you'll see that Las Vegas meets all of the criteria. Plus in Vegas, you're close to guaranteed not to be having the frigid nights we've had in Atlanta the past few years.

Viva Las Vegas!

Well, you got my vote! I second that. Its actually closer and cheaper for us!
Plus, you are absolutely correct about the lower costs, ability to find other things to do like win megabucks....hehe... and most of all, have a venue(s) that can accomodate this.
I'm sure the High Rollers are thinking, "Oh NO! More work for us!" :P

[IndySam]

The RCA Dome in Indianapolis would be a great facility.
The RCA dome will be a pile of rubble by this fall and replaced with even more convention space. The new Lucas Oil Stadium will be bigger and much nicer than the RCA Dome or Georgia Dome.

Add a couple of new hotels being built and a downtown entertainment area that you don't have to be afraid of your students walking in and you have a winner.

The only thing that ATL has that Indy doesn't is a great mass transit system. That could be a problem.

[Vikesrock]

Some of the volunteers at MN came up with what I thought was a great idea. Have major cities bid on hosting similar to the Olympics. That would include the venue and places for celebrations.
I personally think that Minneapolis has a lot going for it. Either hosting at the U (similar to this past weekend, but also using the hockey rinks) or over near downtown with the Dome (they are all of two mi or so apart). What would really seal the deal is if we could order up a snow storm for the weekend so we could introduce all of you from the south to a nice Minnesota spring storm (we had about 6-10 inches fall yesterday!)

I cannot think of a setup in Minneapolis or St. Paul that would provide suitable space for an event the size of the championships. The pits this weekend seemed close to full with 54 teams and there is no way to put more than one field on a basketball court like Williams Arena. Using Marriucci and Ridder instead of Williams and the Sports Pavilion would get you closer (probably super regional size), but not near the capacity required for champs. Williams and the Sports Pavilion are not connected to Marriucci and Ridder via tunnels and even with all 4 buildings I think you'd fall short.

The Metrodome would be a fine replacement for the Georgia Dome if holding Champs in Minneapolis, but it is not connected or even adjacent to another building the size of GWCC building C.

Plus if my team ever qualifies or decides to go to Champs it better be somewhere warmer than here!

[RMiller]

I cannot think of a setup in Minneapolis or St. Paul that would provide suitable space for an event the size of the championships. The pits this weekend seemed close to full with 54 teams and there is no way to put more than one field on a basketball court like Williams Arena. Using Marriucci and Ridder instead of Williams and the Sports Pavilion would get you closer (probably super regional size), but not near the capacity required for champs. Williams and the Sports Pavilion are not connected to Marriucci and Ridder via tunnels and even with all 4 buildings I think you'd fall short.

Plus if my team ever qualifies or decides to go to Champs it better be somewhere warmer than here!

I was thinking about also using McNamara and the fieldhouse. However, you are right about not having the tunnel connections, especially in the case of a spring storm!
It is shorts weather most of the time in April, at least for most Minnesotans, but not too many others.

[Vikesrock]

I was thinking about also using McNamara and the fieldhouse. However, you are right about not having the tunnel connections, especially in the case of a spring storm!

Yeah, imagine everyone walking around with their robots outside on a day like yesterday, yuck!!!

[Tomasz Bania]

To cover the bases based on Detroit:

-venue large enough to house both 5 full playing fields plus FTC fields.
-either same or separate facility to house pits for 300+ FRC teams, 100 FTC teams, FLL teams, plus pit admin, practice fields, etc.

I know Detroit has been looked at several times and actually has 2 suitable venue combinations.

The first combination is using Cobo Hall as the pits, and using Cobo Arena and Joe Louis Arena for the fields or additional pit space. There are several other buildings attached to this, but can't remember any notable ones off the top of my head.

The other combination I heard was to use Ford Field for the Field and use Commerica Park (w/tents) for the pits.

-enough hotels in close proximity (walking distance) to house 500+ teams (students, teachers, parents, mentors) plus VIPs and staff.

Hotels would not be a problem as there are countless hotels in Downtown (including the tallest hotel in the Western Hemisphere) and many more in the area (including all the new hotel rooms created by last years Casino remodeling blitz.

The Finale could be held at Campus Marcius park in Downtown Detroit.

These buildings are all very close to people mover transportation and the combination can be switched around to convenience FIRST's needs.

-major international airport

Detroit Metro Airport is a Top Ten airport in North America and number 19 in the World, with just enough traffic to make it a large airport, but is big enough to handle large traffic Volumes (Example: Superbowl XL). Highway transport to and from the airport is a breeze, and other major ground transportation is available.

-enough restaurants and food places in the area to feed above mentioned people for a week.

299 Restaurants in the Greater Detroit Area according to http://detroit.diningguide.com/dl1dm.htm

-entertainment in the area to keep teams entertained at night (ie. Georgia Aquarium, Braves games, etc).

A few off the top of my head:
-Henry Ford Museum
-Greenfield Village
-Rouge Ford Factory Tour
-Many Theaters
-and hundreds of other attractions (including Dave and Busters) in the Metro Detroit Area.

Tomasz Bania

[Rick TYler]

To cover the bases based on Detroit:

Yabbut, you know, it's Detroit in early spring. How about San Diego? I know there is no really good venue, but it is, after all, San Diego...

[KF987]

As much as i would like to see the championship be held here in vegas there is only one problem...

The convention centers are with out a doubt big enough... but there is no where for anybody to watch the actual game
We were at the IFPE expo a couple weeks ago, and the halls at the Hilton easily topped the size of where is pits are currently held and we thought "hey would'nt it be cool if the championships were here" we then came to the conclusion that the ceilings were only 100ft high at max and nobody could watch the matches.
the convention center's here are built out, not up, and there is no large arena near a convention center. There would be no room for spectators to watch the game.

And most school districts don't like when there kids go to 'vegas' (ex 25 in 06')

I like the championships in ATL, although it does get a bit cold...:)

-Keaton

[lynca]

Houston was a bit of long walk with Reliant. However George R. Brown and Minute Maid Park might be a good combination. I can't really imagine the fields in a baseball stadium but it could happen.

[Scott Carpman]

Philadelphia could handle this with a few modifications. Place a giant tent over the parking lot and turn the area between the Wachovia Spectrum and Center into the pits. Put Newton and Curie in the Spectrum, Gallileo and Archimedes in the Center, and then Einstein in the Center.

The only question is where would FTC and FLL go?

[Danny McC]

Woahhh this is right around the time of NHL playoffs. Don't want to miss that. No philadelphia. =)

[XaulZan11]

I cannot think of a setup in Minneapolis or St. Paul that would provide suitable space for an event the size of the championships. The pits this weekend seemed close to full with 54 teams and there is no way to put more than one field on a basketball court like Williams Arena. Using Marriucci and Ridder instead of Williams and the Sports Pavilion would get you closer (probably super regional size), but not near the capacity required for champs. Williams and the Sports Pavilion are not connected to Marriucci and Ridder via tunnels and even with all 4 buildings I think you'd fall short.

The Metrodome would be a fine replacement for the Georgia Dome if holding Champs in Minneapolis, but it is not connected or even adjacent to another building the size of GWCC building C.

Plus if my team ever qualifies or decides to go to Champs it better be somewhere warmer than here!

If the Minnesota Vikings (finally) get thier new stadium/complex (that would have a 270 room attached hotel), that could be an option. By the time it gets approved and built, global warming will make it hot in Minnesota in April :D

http://wcco.com/slideshows/20.346689.html?rid=0

[RMiller]

Philadelphia could handle this with a few modifications. Place a giant tent over the parking lot and turn the area between the Wachovia Spectrum and Center into the pits. Put Newton and Curie in the Spectrum, Gallileo and Archimedes in the Center, and then Einstein in the Center.

The only question is where would FTC and FLL go?

The other problem with Philadelphia is the airport. Getting out of Philly is a four hour nightmare.

[IndySam]

The other problem with Philadelphia is the airport. Getting out of Philly is a four hour nightmare.

Have you flown out of Atlanta?

LOL

[Kyle Love]

Indianapolis or Detroit. If you look at the immense number of teams who attend the Championships, majority would save travel time going to either of those cities opposed to somewhere such as Atlanta or California.

[Rick TYler]

Indianapolis or Detroit. If you look at the immense number of teams who attend the Championships, majority would save travel time going to either of those cities opposed to somewhere such as Atlanta or California.

Chicago or Denver...

[RMiller]

Have you flown out of Atlanta?

LOL

Only through Atlanta. In 2004, the team I was with took a charter bus (from Iowa) down to Atlanta.
This fall I flew into and out of Philly for an interview. Standing in line for security, that was moving at maybe a foot a minute was not my idea of fun. This was a Monday afternoon nowhere close to holidays. I think I spent about 1.5 hrs in line for security. I am just glad I had an eticket. Who knows how long I would have been waiting if I didn't. I guess I have gotten spoiled with smaller airports, though even Bush in Houston and Minneapolis-St. Paul were nowhere close to that slow.

[Cactus_Robotics]

How Bout Glendale, Arizona... Weather is beautiful in April, we have a world class venue/area that has hosted the BCS Championship, Super Bowl & Fiesta Bowl. Plus Plenty of hotels and dining within walking distance of University of Phoenix Stadium and Westgate which has a movie theatre, resturants, Jobing.com Arena, a hotel with 85,000 sqft Convention Center plus tons more???

www.westgateaz.com

[BobC]

The Orange County (Florida) Convention Center is the second-biggest in the country and is only about eight or nine miles from Disney World:

You listed the Georgia World Atlanta 1.37 million
Congress Center plus you have to add the dome also I think.

[Tomasz Bania]

How Bout Glendale, Arizona... Weather is beautiful in April, we have a world class venue/area that has hosted the BCS Championship, Super Bowl & Fiesta Bowl. Plus Plenty of hotels and dining within walking distance of University of Phoenix Stadium and Westgate which has a movie theatre, resturants, Jobing.com Arena, a hotel with 85,000 sqft Convention Center plus tons more???

www.westgateaz.com

You can't just think about that it's walking distance away. You have to conside the fact that the competition venues have to be RIGHT NEXT to each other, otherwise Detroit would be at the top of the list because all 4 (5 counting cobo arena), having a total of 2,706,650 Sq. Ft. plus the dimensions of Comerica Park.

To clarify space available for my previous post:
Cobo Arena/Hall and Joe Louis Arena = 880,400 sq. ft.
Ford Field/Comerica Park= 1,826,250 sq. feet + Comerica Park

Compared to Georgia Dome: 374,584.08 square feet +
and building C of the GWCC (Pits): 418,500 square feet =
only 793,084.08 square feet, Although the fact that building B and A are there inflates the size people really think it is.

No matter what you say,I will look for other suitible cities but I doubt you will truely find many with buildings RIGHT NEXT to each other.

[Cactus_Robotics]

You can't just think about that it's walking distance away. You have to conside the fact that the competition venues have to be RIGHT NEXT to each other, otherwise Detroit would be at the top of the list because all 4 (5 counting cobo arena), having a total of 2,706,650 Sq. Ft. plus the dimensions of Comerica Park.

To clarify space available for my previous post:
Cobo Arena/Hall and Joe Louis Arena = 880,400 sq. ft.
Ford Field/Comerica Park= 1,826,250 sq. feet + Comerica Park

Compared to Georgia Dome: 374,584.08 square feet +
and building C of the GWCC (Pits): 418,500 square feet =
only 793,084.08 square feet, Although the fact that building B and A are there inflates the size people really think it is.

No matter what you say,I will look for other suitible cities but I doubt you will truely find many with buildings RIGHT NEXT to each other.

They Are right next to each other. the hotels and food is within walking distance.

[Tomasz Bania]

They Are right next to each other. the hotels and food is within walking distance.
The food and hotel isn't my concern, as i'm sure most (if not all) venues have enough of this, but spacewise, the jobing.com arena is only 180,000 square feet, I can't think of another building right next to the arena that would make up the 613,084 square ft. deficit (as compared to Atlanta) for the pits and fields.

1/2 way to 818 (post 414)

[Kyle Love]

Chicago or Denver...

How Bout Glendale, Arizona... Weather is beautiful in April, we have a world class venue/area that has hosted the BCS Championship, Super Bowl & Fiesta Bowl. Plus Plenty of hotels and dining within walking distance of University of Phoenix Stadium and Westgate which has a movie theatre, resturants, Jobing.com Arena, a hotel with 85,000 sqft Convention Center plus tons more???

www.westgateaz.com (http://www.westgateaz.com/)

Denver is quite a ways from the east/midwest. Same with Glendale. If teams would travel that far, it might as well stick to Atlanta, due to the proven past performance.

[The Lucas]

Woahhh this is right around the time of NHL playoffs. Don't want to miss that. No philadelphia. =)

Philadelphia will not work, plus they plan on demolishing the Spectrum to build an entertainment center called Philly Live.

Danny brings up a good point. Due to scheduling conflicts with baseball, hockey and baseball seasons, it should be a domed football stadium (or an old one w/o major sport). We don't want our championship scheduled around a sport's schedule. Also a football stadium is big enough for six fields, while a basketball/hockey arena likely doesn't have the floor space. KF987 doesn't seem to think a convention center can seat enough people and I would agree for the finals on Einstien (although it would probably work for the divisions remembering divisions in Disney tents).

The cities with a domed football stadium right next to a convention center previously mentioned are: Atlanta, Indy, and St Louis. Any others?

[Tomasz Bania]

Philadelphia will not work, plus they plan on demolishing the Spectrum to build an entertainment center called Philly Live.

Danny brings up a good point. Due to scheduling conflicts with baseball, hockey and baseball seasons, it should be a domed football stadium (or an old one w/o major sport). We don't want our championship scheduled around a sport's schedule. Also a football stadium is big enough for six fields, while a basketball/hockey arena likely doesn't have the floor space. KF987 doesn't seem to think a convention center can seat enough people and I would agree for the finals on Einstien (although it would probably work for the divisions remembering divisions in Disney tents).

The cities with a domed football stadium right next to a convention center previously mentioned are: Atlanta, Indy, and St Louis. Any others?

As mentioned earlier, for Detroit You would have two options

Ford Field is HUGE (as mentioned in my previous posts) and has many small buildings surrounding it for extra team pits, but, for example, if the Championships were in Detroit this year, Comerica Park is available from the 16th to the 21st, leaving 18 hours to set up tents ( it's a squeeze, but very possible), but if it was a week earlier, they would have 3 days to set up tents and have 2 days to tear down. Either way, that gives two very large venues to FIRST's disposal, putting the fields in Ford Field and the Pits at Comerica. The other Venue list (Joe Louis Arena/Cobo Hall/Cobo Arena) would be available at this time. You could put Einstein and others in Joe Louis and put any left over in Cobo Arena, leaving Cobo Hall for the pits.

[RMiller]

As mentioned earlier, for Detroit You would have two options

Ford Field is HUGE (as mentioned in my previous posts) and has many small buildings surrounding it for extra team pits, but, for example, if the Championships were in Detroit this year, Comerica Park is available from the 16th to the 21st, leaving 18 hours to set up tents ( it's a squeeze, but very possible), but if it was a week earlier, they would have 3 days to set up tents and have 2 days to tear down. Either way, that gives two very large venues to FIRST's disposal, putting the fields in Ford Field and the Pits at Comerica. The other Venue list (Joe Louis Arena/Cobo Hall/Cobo Arena) would be available at this time. You could put Einstein and others in Joe Louis and put any left over in Cobo Arena, leaving Cobo Hall for the pits.

Don't the Red Wings play in JLA? They normally make the playoffs, so that would be difficult.

[Tomasz Bania]

Don't the Red Wings play in JLA? They normally make the playoffs, so that would be difficult.

It is no Scheduled Gameplay at JLA during this years FIRST Championships (AFAICF), and also look at the Ford Field and Comerica Park option.

Also, I'm not sure if St. Louis would be the best due to the airport not being as large as Detroit or Atlanta (although Atlana is a HUGE pain), but venue-wise they are a viable choice.

[Cactus_Robotics]

The food and hotel isn't my concern, as i'm sure most (if not all) venues have enough of this, but spacewise, the jobing.com arena is only 180,000 square feet, I can't think of another building right next to the arena that would make up the 613,084 square ft. deficit (as compared to Atlanta) for the pits and fields.

1/2 way to 818 (post 414)

the University of Phoenix Stadium is right there too..

[RMiller]

It is no Scheduled Gameplay at JLA during this years FIRST Championships (AFAICF)

As of right now there isn't anything set in stone because the playoffs haven't been set. The regular season ends this weekend. If you check back in the middle of next week, I bet things will have changed for the scheduling at JLA.
I would guess they have they have at least the next month reserved for potential playoff hockey.

[Tomasz Bania]

As of right now there isn't anything set in stone because the playoffs haven't been set. The regular season ends this weekend. If you check back in the middle of next week, I bet things will have changed for the scheduling at JLA.
I would guess they have they have at least the next month reserved for potential playoff hockey.

FIRST Championships from what I know are on different weekends and are usually moved to a time to accomidate FIRST's needs, so they could have it the week in-between season and playoffs(I think it's a full week), but if you want to eliminate That option, you still have Ford Field and Comerica Park.

Also, Just looking at the size of the U of Pheonix stadium, It looks much larger than the jobing.com arena. I don't know if you would want to use the jobing.com arena in that case. Have tents for the pits in part of the Parking Lot.

[The Lucas]

It is no Scheduled Gameplay at JLA during this years FIRST Championships (AFAICF), and also look at the Ford Field and Comerica Park option.

Also, I'm not sure if St. Louis would be the best due to the airport not being as large as Detroit or Atlanta (although Atlana is a HUGE pain), but venue-wise they are a viable choice.

But again JLA would be dependent on Red Wings schedule, and no baseball team in their right mind would allow anyone to pitch tents and use power tools on their grass for 3 days during the season :ahh:

[Tomasz Bania]

But again JLA would be dependent on Red Wings schedule, and no baseball team in their right mind would allow anyone to pitch tents and use power tools on their grass for 3 days during the season :ahh:
It was done for the Super Bowl from what I remember(put platforms over the field and set up tents on those platforms) and just looking at the schedule for JLA, they are setting up for a Def Leppard Concert Thursday and Friday of Nationals for a scheduled performance on Saturday, so it would be available.

[The Lucas]

It was done for the Super Bowl from what I remember(put platforms over the field and set up tents on those platforms)

Thats the Super Bowl:ahh: which is months before the season. It seems the Vans Warped Tour is the only other event during the season and that is during the All Star Break. JLA might work but we would have to split fields again.

[Cactus_Robotics]

FIRST Championships from what I know are on different weekends and are usually moved to a time to accomidate FIRST's needs, so they could have it the week in-between season and playoffs(I think it's a full week), but if you want to eliminate That option, you still have Ford Field and Comerica Park.

Also, Just looking at the size of the U of Pheonix stadium, It looks much larger than the jobing.com arena. I don't know if you would want to use the jobing.com arena in that case. Have tents for the pits in part of the Parking Lot.

No, i wasnt thinking using jobing.com at all, its designed for hockey. All I was saying was its another venue close by.

[Josh Murphy]

I personally(my opinion) don't think that Detroit would be a good place to have it. Yeah it would be cool because it would be close and all being in Michigan, but again it has disaster written all over it(once again my opinion). There are no buildings that are even capable of housing everything that Atlanta does. The weather would not cooperate as it is Michigan, anything can happen. I love the setup that Atlanta has and I wouldn't complain one bit if they left it there as long as they could. There is a saying I hear all the time "Don't fix it if it ain't broke", Atlanta isn't "broke" why leave?(other than just having it somewhere else) Also Atlanta does a very good job in my opinion accomodating FIRST.:)

[Macdaddy549]

Is it me or are the FIRST Championships getting later in the month of April?

[technoL]

Is it me or are the FIRST Championships getting later in the month of April?

Not really, in '06 they were from 4/27-4/29 and in '07 it was pretty close to this year's time.

[Nawaid Ladak]

the problem with convention centers, is most of them are built out, not up, and how would you be able to fit fans to watch the final matches?

you ned a dome type stadum, here are a list of a few

University of Pheonix stadium-Glendale AZ
Metrodome-Minnianappolis MN / vickings new possable stadium
Texas Stadium-Irving TX / New Dallas Cowboys Stadium-Arlington TX
RCA Dome/ New Colts Stadium-Indianappolis IN.
Ford Field-Detroit MI
Georgia Dome-Atlanta GA
Reliant Stadium Complex-Huston TX
Skydome-Toronto ON
That one stadium in St. Louis MO... can't remember it's name
the Superdome-New Orleans LA

and my pick, if there is a convention center/space nearby

ALAMO DOME COMPLEX IN SAN ANTONIO TEXAS

[Joe Matt]

Indianapolis or Detroit. If you look at the immense number of teams who attend the Championships, majority would save travel time going to either of those cities opposed to somewhere such as Atlanta or California.

NO!

Just because it's close to you doesn't make it better!

I think I can speak for a lot of people, if I'm walking around a lot outside to-from hotel and between various other places, I'M NOT DOING IT IN THE COLD. End of story. Same with rain. I'd love to see them move to someplace up north and have everyone comlpain about the high being 50, finally putting this issue to bed. Hell, I'd STOP GOING if moving around champs would make me feel terrible.

Atlanta is perfect (except for the crime, oops) with the weather, price, hotels, location, etc.

[Tomasz Bania]

NO!

Just because it's close to you doesn't make it better!

I think I can speak for a lot of people, if I'm walking around a lot outside to-from hotel and between various other places, I'M NOT DOING IT IN THE COLD. End of story. Same with rain. I'd love to see them move to someplace up north and have everyone comlpain about the high being 50, finally putting this issue to bed. Hell, I'd STOP GOING if moving around champs would make me feel terrible.

Atlanta is perfect (except for the crime, oops) with the weather, price, hotels, location, etc.

Weather???? Not exactly sure what to say about that, but i'm sure stuff in Atlanta had to be shifted to accomidate FIRST, and expecially with so many teams in Michigan there would be a great driving force to do so in Detroit. St Louis would have to be my other choice, as it is more centralized but all places do have their up sides and down sides.

[Corey Balint]

Weather???? Not exactly sure what to say about that, but i'm sure stuff in Atlanta had to be shifted to accomidate FIRST, and expecially with so many teams in Michigan there would be a great driving force to do so in Detroit. St Louis would have to be my other choice, as it is more centralized but all places do have their up sides and down sides.

If Nationals/Championships was held in Detroit, I am 100% positive I wouldn't go. It is just not a safe city. There are far too many horror stories for a lot of school districts to allow there kids to go.

I don't care if it is centralized or not. The most important thing is how cheap it will be to get there. I'm sure NY, Florida, Boston, LA, Las Vegas would be much cheaper (transportation and hotel) than St. Louis, Detroit, Indy...etc.

[Dancin103]

I would love it if Championships was in Disney. Disney has plenty of room to hold a FIRST championship. It would be so fun! :)

[TD78]

I would love it if Championships was in Disney. Disney has plenty of room to hold a FIRST championship. It would be so fun! :)

It's not so much the room with Disney (as they have plenty of it), it's the venue. Where would you hold the fields and pits? This was done back in 2002 and before in tents, but we've outgrown those tents and now need something on the order of the GA Dome and GWCC to fulfill our needs.

[Justin]

Not sure if this has been covered but...

When considering Disney consider that there's one key criteria that it doesn't meet. When last we saw Disney as home to Nationals* there was only FRC to contend with and the limits of what Disney could put together in terms of a temporary compound were already over extended. Now consider that we have, FRC, FTC, FLL to contend with. As far as I know, they didn't a few years ago, Disney lacks pretty severely in terms of an adequate arena. Their rain plan for Einstein back in those days was "here's a cute Mickey Poncho, enjoy the competition." Also as someone who was overrun by the extreme heat and humidity one of the years I was down there the climate controlled Georgia Dome certainly has its merits.

Of course Disney holds a special place in the heart of old school FIRSTers and it is Disney there's lots to do, lots of hotel space.

Try This!! For those of you students who weren't around for Disney walk up to someone who was there back in 96, 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, especially student alumni. Simply throw this at them and see what happens "Please stand clear of the doors..."

-Justin

*It was actually called that back then ;-)

[The Lucas]

It's not so much the room with Disney (as they have plenty of it), it's the venue. Where would you hold the fields and pits? This was done back in 2002 and before in tents, but we've outgrown those tents and now need something on the order of the GA Dome and GWCC to fulfill our needs.

The new Jolstens Center (http://disneyworldsports.disney.go.com/dwws/en_US/venues/detail?name=JostensCenterVenueDetailPage2) in the Wide World of Sports should work for the Fields (6 basketball courts = 6 fields). I'm sure they could find some space for the pits in the rest of that complex.

[KTorak]

I think next year will be the last year in Atlanta. I also wouldn't be surprised if it moved back to Orlando.

[BiTurboS4]

To cover the bases based on Detroit:

-venue large enough to house both 5 full playing fields plus FTC fields.
-either same or separate facility to house pits for 300+ FRC teams, 100 FTC teams, FLL teams, plus pit admin, practice fields, etc.

I know Detroit has been looked at several times and actually has 2 suitable venue combinations.

The first combination is using Cobo Hall as the pits, and using Cobo Arena and Joe Louis Arena for the fields or additional pit space. There are several other buildings attached to this, but can't remember any notable ones off the top of my head.

The other combination I heard was to use Ford Field for the Field and use Commerica Park (w/tents) for the pits.

-enough hotels in close proximity (walking distance) to house 500+ teams (students, teachers, parents, mentors) plus VIPs and staff.

Hotels would not be a problem as there are countless hotels in Downtown (including the tallest hotel in the Western Hemisphere) and many more in the area (including all the new hotel rooms created by last years Casino remodeling blitz.

The Finale could be held at Campus Marcius park in Downtown Detroit.

These buildings are all very close to people mover transportation and the combination can be switched around to convenience FIRST's needs.

-major international airport

Detroit Metro Airport is a Top Ten airport in North America and number 19 in the World, with just enough traffic to make it a large airport, but is big enough to handle large traffic Volumes (Example: Superbowl XL). Highway transport to and from the airport is a breeze, and other major ground transportation is available.

-enough restaurants and food places in the area to feed above mentioned people for a week.

299 Restaurants in the Greater Detroit Area according to http://detroit.diningguide.com/dl1dm.htm

-entertainment in the area to keep teams entertained at night (ie. Georgia Aquarium, Braves games, etc).

A few off the top of my head:
-Henry Ford Museum
-Greenfield Village
-Rouge Ford Factory Tour
-Many Theaters
-and hundreds of other attractions (including Dave and Busters) in the Metro Detroit Area.

Tomasz Bania

Sorry, the last time I was the Detroit regional, my confidence in my safety was not there. Nor did I ever feel comfortable walking around the GM building at night. So i'd say SKIP on Detroit as a new Championship site.

[Corey Balint]

The new Jolstens Center (http://disneyworldsports.disney.go.com/dwws/en_US/venues/detail?name=JostensCenterVenueDetailPage2) in the Wide World of Sports should work for the Fields. I'm sure they could find some space for the pits in the rest of that complex.

The layout does not look like it would allow for proper seating. I'm also not too sure if Disney would like thousands of people walking around on their well kept sod, destroying it and beating it down.

[TD78]

The new Jolstens Center (http://disneyworldsports.disney.go.com/dwws/en_US/venues/detail?name=JostensCenterVenueDetailPage2) in the Wide World of Sports should work for the Fields (6 basketball courts = 6 fields). I'm sure they could find some space for the pits in the rest of that complex.

Cool place. It could no doubt hold all the fields. Now...where to put all the people... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/28455)

[Rick TYler]

I think next year will be the last year in Atlanta. I also wouldn't be surprised if it moved back to Orlando.

Great. Just great. The only major airports in the US that are farther from here than Atlanta are all in Florida.

I tell you, Denver is a great town...

[IndySam]

I don't care if it is centralized or not. The most important thing is how cheap it will be to get there. I'm sure NY, Florida, Boston, LA, Las Vegas would be much cheaper (transportation and hotel) than St. Louis, Detroit, Indy...etc.

On what do you base this assumption? I bet you would be surprised.

[Corey Balint]

On what do you base this assumption? I bet you would be surprised.

I'm sure you could definitely get some cheap rates if you booked early or late in some cases...but still. Package deals are offered to most of the places I listed that would allow for many more teams to be able to go. They will be consistently cheaper than the others.

Some of those other places could also draw more sponsors to go. If you are potential sponsor deciding between two events to go to and you see one event is being held in Detroit/Atlanta and the other is in Vegas/Florida/NYC...where would you go?

[GaryVoshol]

... move to someplace up north and have everyone comlpain about the high being 50, ...50 is a warm day in Detroit in mid-April. We had snow on the way to Atlanta in 2004, and on the way back in 2007.

If Nationals/Championships was held in Detroit, I am 100% positive I wouldn't go. It is just not a safe city. There are far too many horror stories for a lot of school districts to allow there kids to go. This undeserved reputation would be a detriment for holding it in Detroit. The areas around either Cobo or Ford Field are as safe as any major city. However, despite what Tomas says, the facilities just aren't up to it here. We'd either have to have two divisions each in separate buildings 1/2 mile apart (with pits in between) or have the pits outside in tents in 40-50 degree weather. It's not going to happen.

I would love it if Championships was in Disney. Disney has plenty of room to hold a FIRST championship. It would be so fun! :)Disney was a lot of fun when the Nationals were there. It simply does not have enough room for what the Championship has become. There were 20 FLL teams there as an exposition - VEX hadn't even been thought up yet - and they had to make their presentations in the hallway as FRC teams moved to and from the pits. "ROBOT, Robot coming through!" Even if it was still just FRC, I doubt they could handle the 246 teams guaranteed spots from the regionals, let alone allowing any other teams to register.

As this thread comes up year after year, we need to continue to remember the minimum needed just to run the event:

Fully enclosed football-size stadium for competitions
Ability to seat 20000 spectators on one side of the field for finals
Attached convention center for pits
Multiple meeting rooms for judging, symposium sessions, etc.


After that, we can think about hotels, transportation, extra-curricular things to do and see, etc.

Atlanta has it. It sounds like Indy and St Louis might also have it, but with cooler weather. Anywhere else?

[Tomasz Bania]

Sorry, the last time I was the Detroit regional, my confidence in my safety was not there. Nor did I ever feel comfortable walking around the GM building at night. So i'd say SKIP on Detroit as a new Championship site. I do agree that the place where the Detroit Regional is held is not nessearily the best-looking, but it is not downtown. Expain to me how you would see Ford Field and Comerica Park as an unsafe spot. Just like in Atlanta (and most every city), there are good spots and bad spots. Everyone is just getting the view of "Ohh... Detroit, well isn't that a horrible City?", but downtown Detroit is nice and I can guarantee that flying to Detroit is going to be one of the cheaper places to fly because of it's high capacity and efficiency (if you want to look at it runway wise, it has 6 runways, with 7th underway, which would tie it for most runways in the US (AFAIK), but terminal wise it has over 122 gates in one terminal alone). As Gary said, I am not figuring out the full logistics of this, but "theoretically" couldn't Ford Field house 5 Fields and Couldn't Cobo Arena and Joe Louis combined hold 5 fields, just for the sake of argueing? Weather is my only true reservation about Detroit, but as we see with Atlanta, anything is possible.

[Corey Balint]

Currently, as much as I hate to say it (I dislike Atlanta...it is kind of boring...), Atlanta is perfect for what FIRST needs as it stands. As long as Atlanta will have FIRST, I am sure FIRST will stay there.

[Nawaid Ladak]

im surprised no one has mentioned my idea of San Antonio TX yet

Alamodome and the Gonzlez convention center. those two spaces could be used for fields and pitts

any supporters?

Riverwalk anyone??? :-D

[Vikesrock]

I do agree that the place where the Detroit Regional is held is not nessearily the best-looking, but it is not downtown. Expain to me how you would see Ford Field and Comerica Park as an unsafe spot. Just like in Atlanta (and most every city), there are good spots and bad spots. Everyone is just getting the view of "Ohh... Detroit, well isn't that a horrible City?", but downtown Detroit is nice and I can guarantee that flying to Detroit is going to be one of the cheaper places to fly because of it's high capacity and efficiency (if you want to look at it runway wise, it has 6 runways, with 7th underway, which would tie it for most runways in the US (AFAIK), but terminal wise it has over 122 gates in one terminal alone). As Gary said, I am not figuring out the full logistics of this, but "theoretically" couldn't Ford Field house 5 Fields and Couldn't Cobo Arena and Joe Louis combined hold 5 fields, just for the sake of argueing? Weather is my only true reservation about Detroit, but as we see with Atlanta, anything is possible.

Runways don't really affect airfare very much. If you are going to talk about airport traffic as a benefit of Detroit then it falls behind Atlanta (world's busiest airport by passengers per year), Chicago (O'Hare), LA, Dallas-Fort Worth, Denver, NYC (JFC), Las Vegas, Houston (George Bush), Phoenix, Orlando and Newark.

However it is twice as busy as St. Louis and over 4 times as busy as Indy.

[Joe Matt]

50 is a warm day in Detroit in mid-April. We had snow on the way to Atlanta in 2004, and on the way back in 2007.

Both of which are rare occurances at their respective locations. It was 35 here when I woke up, part of the idea behind championships was that it was a celebration of the teams that did well, not just a really big regional. Nice, warm, weather in a safe environment is part of that celebration. Do you think we could hold the after party ouside in Detroit?

Stop preaching about how it'd be awesome if it was in your backyard just because you have so much hometown pride and realize that championships at that location just doesn't make much sense. Besides Atlanta, Orlando and Las Vegas are the only other really logicial locations.

[GaryVoshol]

Both of which are rare occurances at their respective locations. It was 35 here when I woke up, part of the idea behind championships was that it was a celebration of the teams that did well, not just a really big regional. Nice, warm, weather in a safe environment is part of that celebration. Do you think we could hold the after party ouside in Detroit?
I think you misunderstand my point. I'm arguing against Detroit. The weather, while usually not snowy, is too unstable in April to consider. No, I don't think the party could be outside. Even if it was warm enough, chances are it would be raining.

[Tomasz Bania]

Both of which are rare occurances at their respective locations. It was 35 here when I woke up, part of the idea behind championships was that it was a celebration of the teams that did well, not just a really big regional. Nice, warm, weather in a safe environment is part of that celebration. Do you think we could hold the after party ouside in Detroit?

Stop preaching about how it'd be awesome if it was in your backyard just because you have so much hometown pride and realize that championships at that location just doesn't make much sense. Besides Atlanta, Orlando and Las Vegas are the only other really logicial locations.

It's definately not hometown pride, as I personally am not the greatest fan of Detroit in it's current state. I'm just stateing that it is a "possible" location. I could argue out St. Louis just as much as from me seeing it First-Hand, they definately have the venue space (can't remember the names of the venues, but they seemed equivalent to Ford Field and Comerica Park).