IRI Rule Changes - 2008

[Chris Fultz]

In an effort to minimize the changes to the official game, but also to recognize a few areas where we feel the game could be enhanced (based on the beauty of 20/20 hindsight), we are making the following changes to the official FIRST Overdrive rules. All other rules will be intact.

1. For the lane dividers only, a robot has to completely cross back over the lane divider to be penalized. There is no change to the rules regarding the start / finish lines. Multiple line crossings will acrue multiple penalties.

2. Scoring will be based on robot and ball position when they have come to rest, not when the clock expires. In general, this will be 3 - 5 seconds after time has expired.

3. Alliances will be comprised of 4 teams, with each alliance captain selecting their own "back-up. Draft order will be 1 - 8, 1 - 8, 8 -1. Use of teams in matches is completely at the discretion of the aliance captain. (i.e. there is no requirement for each team to play a match).

These rules will be "formalized" and clearly explained before matches begin at the IRI.

As in the past, teams also have a 'honorary' 5 pound grace for the robots. There will not be a weigh in or inspection, but if a robot is suspect the referees retain the right to require verification of size and weight.

[GaryVoshol]

1. On the end zones only, a robot has to completely cross back over the lane divider to be penalized. There is no change to the rules regarding the start / finish lines. Multiple line crossings will acrue multiple penalties.You just made 190 legal!

2. Scoring will be based on robot and ball position when they have come to rest, not when the clock expires. In general, this will be 3 - 5 seconds after time has expired.At the end of hybrid too?

[Koko Ed]

You just made 190 legal!


Well now they have to come. They just became a scoring terror.

[Andy Baker]

You just made 190 legal! At the end of hybrid too?

Yes and yes.

[Cory]

Well now they have to come. They just became a scoring terror.

Except for the fact they could only hurdle twice when their robot was legal anyways.

[Elgin Clock]

There will not be a weigh in or inspection, but if a robot is suspect the referees retain the right to require verification of size and weight.

Is this true for the 80" rule as well?

[FoleyEngineer]

Perfect. As usual, absolutely perfect! Thanks!

[Francis-134]

Except for the fact they could only hurdle twice when their robot was legal anyways.

A lot can happen during an off season (not promising anything). Besides, I'm pretty proud of a four degree of freedom arm, two slip-ring powered, five wheel "Man-Bear-Pig drive" robot, even if it does score only two hurdles and a cap. My reward is having people come by the pit and say "we thought about this, but thought it was impossible".

On the topic of the rule changes, I really like what you guys have done. This will probably eliminate 90% of the silly G22 infractions while keeping the game unchanged. I also really like the "comes to rest" variation. I was a little puzzled why the game this year was decidedly different on what seemed to be a rule that has always existed without problem.

[Andy Baker]

Is this true for the 80" rule as well?

The referee crew will penalize teams who break the 80" rule.

AB

[Chris Marra]

Although we got permission last year, might as well ask now in case we get invited: Can we run non-functional decorations from another power source? (aka: Can we put a camera (http://vimeo.com/979530)onboard the robot that uses its own battery?)

[Andy Baker]

You just made 190 legal!
At the end of hybrid too?

Yes and yes.

Now that I think of it, I am not sure of this. I need to do some homework regarding just exactly how 190 works. They may be breaking the rule on the finish line still.

Andy

[Richard McClellan]

Will there be a webcast of IRI this year? I don't think I'll be able to make it, but I'd love to watch.

[Josh Murphy]

Will there be a webcast of IRI this year? I don't think I'll be able to make it, but I'd love to watch.

Yes Wildstang will be doing it. Here is the link form the IRI website http://live.wildstang.org/iri.php :)

[Pavan Dave]

Although we got permission last year, might as well ask now in case we get invited: Can we run non-functional decorations from another power source? (aka: Can we put a camera (http://vimeo.com/979530)onboard the robot that uses its own battery?)

I also am curious as to the response of this question because THIS (http://teknobot.net/lsrq54.wmv) doesn't satisfy my need for multiple angled shots for a video....

[Kevin Kolodziej]

I know its not your robot, but you're looking for something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL7do1WJ_N0&eurl=http://www.team1675.org/WP/)?

If I understand 190 correctly, they sit in the homestretch, having never crossed the finish line, therefore the only line that they actually cross backwards is the lane divider prior to their homestretch (only with their arm). I'm not official, but it sounds legal to me with the rule update =)

Now that the non home stretch quadrant refs won't have many line violations, you all better play nice and watch those G37 penalties!

[Pavan Dave]

I know its not your robot, but you're looking for something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL7do1WJ_N0&eurl=http://www.team1675.org/WP/)?!

I want to do that. I have a bunch of film from the audience and from the Drivers Station but nothing from on board the robot... I want some footage kind of like you see half way through the Robonauts 3 week video on YouTube.


Pavan.

[Protronie]

Yes Wildstang will be doing it. Here is the link form the IRI website http://live.wildstang.org/iri.php :)

Thank you in advance!!!!!
This might be better than the Championship! :D

[Aren_Hill]

This might be better than the Championship! :D

Did you just say "might"? its not a question its fact
it WILL be better than the championship
(and thats not saying the championship was easy or boring)
its like the championship being ice cream, its pretty awesome
IRI is like adding toppings, making it even more awesome

[JaneYoung]

Amazing things happen at IRI, no doubt about it.
But - amazing things happened at the Championship 2008.
Period.

[Mike Schreiber]

Did you just say "might"? its not a question its fact
it WILL be better than the championship

Always is

and to Cyber Blue:
THANK YOU!

[Ryan Dognaux]

Always is

and to Cyber Blue:
THANK YOU!

and 45, 393, 1024, etc.

[tdlrali]

How about extra points for hurdles during hybrid mode?

[Herodotus]

How about extra points for hurdles during hybrid mode?

That would be a cool bonus as well. ;)

IRI is always on top of tweaking the game just right to make it the best it can be. I think all of these rules will make IRI as amazing as ever.

[Andy Baker]

How about extra points for hurdles during hybrid mode?


Nope, hybrid mode is already heavily weighted enough.

AB

[Chris Fultz]

NOTE REGARDING IRI RULES AND INTERPRETATIONS -

Andy Baker is Head Referee and has the final decision on rules and interpretations of rules.

The default assumption should be whatever the FIRST ruling was, the IRI will rule the same way.

If you have a particular question or concern, contact Andy directly or post it here for a ruling.

If the response is not from Andy, it doesn't count. ;)

[RMS11]

I so wish our team could go...:D

[rick.oliver]

Have you decided to have a "mentor" round?

[Andy Baker]

Have you decided to have a "mentor" round?

There will be no mentor round at IRI this year.

Andy

[Richard Wallace]

There will be no mentor round at IRI this year.Thank goodness. :eek:

Happy Birthday, Andy. :)

[Travis Hoffman]

There will be no mentor round at IRI this year.

Andy

Thus no risk of blemishing my undefeated 2-0-1 mentors' round driving record.

Happy Birthday, Ozzy.

[Josh Murphy]

Just looking for a clarifification on the following scenario. Red team places a red trackball at the end of the match, but the red team is still touching the red trackball when time expires. Will it count as placed and recieve the bonus or will it not be counted? or are you going to be looking at if the ball is being supported by the red robot? just a question that I have been wondering about for a while now because it was called differently at different regionals that I attended.

[Andy Baker]

Just looking for a clarifification on the following scenario. Red team places a red trackball at the end of the match, but the red team is still touching the red trackball when time expires. Will it count as placed and recieve the bonus or will it not be counted? or are you going to be looking at if the ball is being supported by the red robot? just a question that I have been wondering about for a while now because it was called differently at different regionals that I attended.

At IRI...
At the end of the match, when the balls and the robots come to rest, if the red alliance robot is touching the red ball placed on the overpass, then the bonus points do not count.

During the FIRST season...
This determination was made at the sound of the buzzer at the end of the match. If the red robot was touching the red ball at that sound, it did not count. If it was not touching at the time of the buzzer, the ball would count regardless of where the robot came to rest.

Andy B.

[Josh Murphy]

At IRI...
At the end of the match, when the balls and the robots come to rest, if the red alliance robot is touching the red ball placed on the overpass, then the bonus points do not count.

During the FIRST season...
This determination was made at the sound of the buzzer at the end of the match. If the red robot was touching the red ball at that sound, it did not count. If it was not touching at the time of the buzzer, the ball would count regardless of where the robot came to rest.

Andy B.

Thank you.

[dbell]

Although we got permission last year, might as well ask now in case we get invited: Can we run non-functional decorations from another power source? (aka: Can we put a camera (http://vimeo.com/979530)onboard the robot that uses its own battery?)

I haven't seen the answer to this question.

Team 1519 would also like to put a camera on our robot to get footage like this (http://www.mechanicalmayhem.org/teamvideos.asp) (Speed Racer - 10 Laps in 60 Seconds).
Would such a camera be allowed?

[Rupnick]

Since it was never called in Official First Matches I will ask if G40 will be called when a robot is purposely maneuvering in front of another robot. Although an open path may be there since a robot would not block the whole with of the field they would however move to "block" the path when you try to take such path. I've talked with many of Refs about this and I would like to know how it wil be approached at IRI this year.

[Andy Baker]

I haven't seen the answer to this question.

Team 1519 would also like to put a camera on our robot to get footage like this (http://www.mechanicalmayhem.org/teamvideos.asp) (Speed Racer - 10 Laps in 60 Seconds).
Would such a camera be allowed?

As long as the robot is under weight, and no competitive advantage is gained by this supplemental battery and camera, then I think it is ok. However, this will be discussed among the referee crew between now and IRI and we reserve the right to say "no" to this.

I think this is a cool thing, and it has been allowed before. I just don't want to open a door that gives a team an extra advantage. Please show me your camera setup once you get to IRI.

Since it was never called in Official First Matches I will ask if G40 will be called when a robot is purposely maneuvering in front of another robot. Although an open path may be there since a robot would not block the whole with of the field they would however move to "block" the path when you try to take such path. I've talked with many of Refs about this and I would like to know how it wil be approached at IRI this year.

It was called on the fields I was on, but rarely. At IRI it will happen this way:

Once impeding (and this could include the active blocking method as stated by Rupnick) starts to take place, the nearest quadrant ref will begin a 6 second count. Once the 6 second count is over, then the G40 penalty is assigned.

In many cases, the robot trying to block the other robot will cease their action after a 4 or 5 count. This is not a penalty. The penalty is assigned only if the count reaches 6.

The difficult thing to call here, from a referee's perspective, is when to begin the count. We will be watching closely for this, as teams got better at blocking and playing defense as the 2008 FIRST season matured.

See you at IRI,
Andy B.

[jax1488]

Thank you in advance!!!!!
This might be better than the Championship! :D

THE WEBCAST ISNT WORKING!! :( lol

[sgreco]

THE WEBCAST ISNT WORKING!! :( lol

lol? It doesn't seem funny to me. It's kinda scary if you think about. :ahh:

am I missing something, 'cause IRI hasn't started yet

btw Jack, your # of posts = Wildstang :D

Kind of ironic, because their doing the webcast

[Andy Baker]

am I missing something, 'cause IRI hasn't started yet


We're a month away.

ummm.... ut oh, we are ONLY a month away.

Golly, there is much to do!

AB

[jax1488]

We're a month away.

ummm.... ut oh, we are ONLY a month away.

Golly, there is much to do!

AB

i thought it was in june.. bah.. to tired for thinking anymore lol i gotta stop workin so hard haha..

*sets dalorean time machine to july*

[Kit Gerhart]

Can we get "80 inch" penalties after things come to rest at the end of a match?

[Andy Baker]

Can we get "80 inch" penalties after things come to rest at the end of a match?

We can make an exception to the 80" rule in this case. Unless it gives a team an advantage after the buzzer sounds, extending past 80 does should not be a problem.

Andy B.

[Andy Baker]

These IRI rule changes will be posted on the IRI website soon, and they will be briefly explained at the opening ceremonies on Friday, July 18.

Once again, we aimed at not changing the game. We only are making slight changes to the rules after witnessing the playing of the 2008 FIRST Overdrive game.

Here is a listing of the official 2009 IRI rule tweaks:

(I hope the verbage is correct and I am not leaving any loopholes open with these descriptions - PM me with suggestions if you see a glaring mistake)

1. Regarding G22:
For the lane dividers only, a robot has to completely cross back over
the LANE MARKER to be penalized. There is no change to the rules
regarding the FINISH LINES.

IRI G22:
"<IRIG22> Direction Of Traffic – ROBOTS must proceed around the TRACK
in a counter-clockwise, direction. Once a ROBOT has CROSSED a FINISH
LINE, it shall not break the plane of the line by moving in the
clockwise direction. Once a ROBOT has CROSSED a LANE MARKER, it shall
not cross over completely in the prior quadrant in the clockwise
direction. A PENALTY will be assigned for each infraction."

INTENT:
The intent of this rule change is to loosen up the G22 constraint at
the location of the LANE MARKERS at the ends of the field, but not
change the game.

2. Regarding G14
Scoring will be based on the ROBOT and TRACKBALL position when they
have come to rest, not when the clock expires.

IRI G14:
<G14>When the MATCH ends, each TRACKBALL that is at least partially
supported by the OVERPASS and not in contact with any ROBOT of the
same ALLIANCE will earn a 12-point bonus. All scoring situations of
TRACKBALLS and ROBOTS will be evaluated at the point when all
TRACKBALLS and ROBOTS come to rest.

INTENT:
The intent of this rule change is to not take a "photo finish" of the
robot position at the end of the match. All scoring will be done at
the point when the robots and trackballs come to rest.

example 1:
If the buzzer sounds at the end of Hybrid mode, and then a robot
passes over a LANE MARKER, then the robot will earn the 4 points for
passing that line in Hybrid mode (the same thing applies to penalties)
This would also be the same at the end of the match
example 2:
A robot places a trackball on the overpass at the end of the match,
and the robot is NOT touching the ball during the time of the buzzer
sound. Then, immediately after the buzzer sound, the robot's arm
drifts onto the ball and IS touching it after the robot comes to rest.
The 12 point bonus for this ball is NOT counted.

3. 80" rule - after the match is over
Since we are counting the robot position after the buzzer sounds, we
need to make an alteration to Robot rule R16.

IRI R16
<R16> Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING
CONFIGURATION that exceeds the size dimensions specified in Rule
<R11>. While in the PLAYING CONFIGURATION, the ROBOT may expand up to
a maximum horizontal dimension of 80 inches (e.g. all parts of the
ROBOT must fit within an imaginary 80-inch-diameter upright cylinder).
After the match is complete, the ROBOT may come to rest outside of
this 80 inch cylinder, as long as no advantage is gained by this
movement. There are no height limits for a ROBOT in its PLAYING
CONFIGURATION at any time after the start of the MATCH.

4. At IRI, rule <G53> can be disregarded. Simply put, mentors can
discuss issues with the head referee.

5. Elimination Alliances will be comprised of 4 teams, with each
alliance captain selecting their own "back-up" alliance partner. Draft
order will be 1-8, 1-8, 8-1. Use of teams in matches is completely at
the discretion of the alliance captain. (i.e. there is no requirement
for each team to play a match).


Andy B.

[Jonathan Norris]

Is Wildstang Recording IRI?? I am coming down agian this year, and would be willing to record the video feed. Andy, or anyone else involved with IRI let me know and I'll bring my recording equiptment with me.

[qzrrbz]

Did you folks consider modifying the lap scores to possibly N, where N == the lap #, i.e. 10 laps is worth 55? The intent being to make lapbots competitive with hurdlers. And to finally break 200 :D

Just wondering... :-)

[Andy Baker]

Did you folks consider modifying the lap scores to possibly N, where N == the lap #, i.e. 10 laps is worth 55? The intent being to make lapbots competitive with hurdlers. And to finally break 200 :D

Just wondering... :-)

We did not consider this. While this is an interesting idea, we do not want increase the value of a lap.

Andy B.