Robot Shipping -- Solutions/Ideas

[Ken Patton]

Now that there is some discussion/feedback on the Michigan tournament structure - thanks for bringing it to the people AND asking for input Dave! - what are we gonna do about it?

A lot of legitimate, and potentially serious, issues have been raised and will likely continue in Dave's thread. Hopefully the people "defending" the new structure take it for what it is: constructive discussion. But now that we are going to be required to do this, we could also get some discussion going on solutions and ideas for improvements. I for one am thankful that competing in FRC has prepared us teams for collaboratively working together to make things better.

So please post your ideas and proposals for solutions. Identify the problem, but focus on the solution. Unlike the Michigan tournament schedule, this thread is open to all teams worldwide :).


Problem: Teams have to bring their bots to the event. (aka: the shipping part of the "no shipping" concept)

Idea for Solution: Since some teams are not going to have the truck/trailer needed to transport their robots, and because they will need to do this at the same time they are transporting their people, they could use some help with logistics. Lets make it easy for teams to help each other out.

What it will take to succeed: A simple system, maybe just a sent-out list or spreadsheet, or a website, the same system for each DE, that says who the responsible shipping contact is and what their transport resource is. For example, Team XYZ, city, contact Joe Smith, phone number, traveling on Thursday, returning on Saturday, extra space available = no. Will need the venue to make it known when load-in is available.




Ken

[EricH]

Second idea for solution:

Because teams are bringing their own robots, have all the teams on a given "route" (e.g., North, South, West, Northeast, etc) to each event go in on a U-haul or trailer. The farthest team rents the trailer and is reimbursed by the others, depending on how many teams. (Or, if the trailer is owned by a team/individual, gas reimbursement.) As the team travels towards the venue, the trailer stops at the other robot locations to pick up the other robots. Use a spreadsheet or something to determine who is on which "route" and contact information.

[Nate Smith]

As a former MI team member, I would like to offer to set up a web site to handle organizing coordinated shipping to and from district between teams. I have a few ideas in my head that will help keep things organized and run smoothly and I'll start working on a proof of concept of what I have in mind...

[wendymom]

So let me get this straight. The Michigan teams get to keep their robots during the 6 weeks of competition? Even if they are playing at a regional outside of Michigan?

[Cory]

So let me get this straight. The Michigan teams get to keep their robots during the 6 weeks of competition? Even if they are playing at a regional outside of Michigan?

I doubt that is the case.

[Zflash]

Michigan teams keep thier robot until they compete at a district or the state event unless they compete outside of MI, then they must ship them like all other FIRST teams.

[Richard McClellan]

So let me get this straight. The Michigan teams get to keep their robots during the 6 weeks of competition? Even if they are playing at a regional outside of Michigan?

There are quite a few details and scenarios that teams could be in, but FIRST seems to have thought of all scenarios and set it up so that everything is still fair across the board. For the Michigan teams only playing in Michigan, they will use a "lock up" procedure which requires robots to be placed in a holder provided by FIRST in Michigan and sealed shut on the official Robot Ship Date.

More details are explained in the Q&A (http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Who/Media_Center/FRC_Assets/2008/FINAL_FAQ_MIRestructuring_revJul31.pdf).

[Nate Smith]

As I mentioned earlier, I have started work on a proof of concept web site for managing what I am calling RTAP (Robot Transport Assistance Program). Right now, there is nothing there except for the welcome page, but I am working on adding in actual features to the site as I have time to do so. You can watch the progress of the site at http://www.hrules.info/rtap/

[IKE]

Hmmm. Maybe you could get Uhaul to sponsor your development of this and/or offer discounts for teams if they register for a truck or trailer through your site.

[Nate Smith]

If someone wants to check on discounts, I will be more than happy to add the necessary code to link to them to the site. With me personally being nowhere near Michigan (any more,) I'm not in the best position to negotiate on behalf of MI teams...

[Nate Smith]

New RTAP Update!
http://www.hrules.info/rtap/

While it looks the same, RTAP has been updated to Web 2.0, with AJAX functionality included. It's not doing much beyond decreasing load times on the various pages so far, but more in-depth functionality is on the way. I recommend that everyone who may be using the site checks out the "How to Use" portion of the site to get a feel for how the system is going to be put together...

[fuzzy1718]

Another solution would be for teams to ban together and rent a small storage space to store their bots, that way there is only a few pickup spots.
Also it creates a setting similar to the current one, the robot isn't in the room so you can't mess with it. Who knows might clear up a bit of fustration from the rest of the country, by apearing to give no advantage (not that there is one now) to those participating in the new structure.

[Nate Smith]

I'm not usually one to bump threads back up, but I've been thinking about this project a bit along with everything else going on right now, and was wondering how many were actually interested in using the RTAP system I've discussed before(see the link in my sig if you have no idea what i'm talking about.) Just post under this, and I'll use the response to decide whether or not to continue the work...

[Beth Sweet]

Hi Nate,

This sounds like a great idea, perhaps contacting Gail Alpert or Pam Williamson would be a way to get this off the ground. That way you could actually get ahold of the team leads! PM me if you need emails

[NEMentor470]

... I'll use the response to decide whether or not to continue the work...

Hi Nate,

I agree with Beth: this is a great idea. I visited your site when you first posted it and thought it was good then. I also agree that you should get in touch with Gail A. or someone at FiM to get your idea on their radar. This could be a good expression of Gracious Professionalism, and a much needed help for teams with fewer resources. It might be good to incorporate a map with team and competition locations on it into the site somehow.

[IKE]

So I am designing a combination hitch mounted BOT toter and cart. I am planning on a 40x30 foot-print since the 30 inches will fit through most any door (reason for bots being 28 inches wide). I havve devised a couple different attachment schemes and will be Cadding those up.

While this would be helpful in season for FiM teams, this may also be a good thing for FRC teams, so any other intput on desired features would be great.

[Beth Sweet]

Ike, would this type of a design work for a team without access to a truck/SUV?

[IKE]

Ike, would this type of a design work for a team without access to a truck/SUV?

Hmmm. Maybe. I was planning on designing it for a 2 inch receiver (class III and IV). These are typically on trucks and suvs and are rate for 350-1200 pounds of tongue weight (a bit overkill for a bot).

Class I and II are the 1.25" recievers. These are commonly available for cars and small SUVs. Class I is rated for 200 lbs of tongue weight and class II is 300-350 pounds. I think Class I are typically for small cars and Class II are for Minivans and small SUVs.

I figure the cart will likely be at least 50-75 pounds. With a 130 pound bot that begins pushing the limits of the Class I hitch. I will look at the ratings for the trays out there for Class I and Class II hitches. Do you have a particular vehicle in mind?

[IKE]

Here is an example of a cargo carrier:

http://www.etrailer.com/pc-CC114~52017.htm

This one is for a Class I or Class II and claims to be able to handle 300 pounds.

[Beth Sweet]

Well, I personally have a 15 year old Buick Skylark. I know we also have an old Toyota Corolla as well as a newer car, but I don't know what type it is. Let me do a little bit further research and get back to you. (All of our team members got rid of the big vehicles when gas prices went up, so we've had to rent U-Haul's for all of our summer competitions!)

[IKE]

There may be aftermarket hitches available for those. One of the issues with older cars is that the threaded holes that the hitch attaches at are often coroded on older cars (especially in MI).

[Nate Smith]

I'm stil working on a few details, but check out the new FiM RTAP web site at http://rtap.appspot.com. (Google account required for use).

NECESSARY DISCLAIMER: This site is specifically for Michigan participating teams...anyone outside of the state will not be able to complete registration, as the team selection is limited to MI teams.