View Full Version : [FTC]: New Game Animation
Kevin Thorp
11-09-2008, 14:26
I just finished the new game animation & sent it to FIRST.
Wow - what a cool game this year! :D I think you guys (& gals) will have a lot of fun with the new challenges in this game. And believe me, there are a lot of challenges, scoring and just getting around the field.
Kevin Thorp
Animation Team Mentor
FRC Team 342
The Burning Magnetos
Charleston, SC
smartkid
11-09-2008, 16:41
Sounds great, hope it's nothing like the demo game they attempted to explain and play at nationals.
ATannahill
11-09-2008, 18:39
can you post it here?
wilsonmw04
11-09-2008, 21:29
OooOooOOo
Our first FTC "hint."
Gimmie more :-)
Only 1 more day, must remain calm :p.
I can't wait to see the animation, and especially the animation. Good luck to everyone!
Kevin Thorp
12-09-2008, 09:59
can you post it here?
OK - here it is.
When zoomed in, the image looks like a red and blue blob (robots perhaps) on a white ramp.
I hope its a ramp, both FRC and FTC need some angled playing surfaces.
skimoose
12-09-2008, 16:31
Actually, when you zoom in you can see a banana! ;)
Kevin Thorp
12-09-2008, 16:41
Darn! Skimoose figured it out...
http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/_domo_banana_mid.jpg
Kevin Thorp
12-09-2008, 17:20
If course I'm kidding. The world-famous chefs at FIRST wouldn't serve you bananas.
We're talking fine dining, folks. Guten Appetit!
smartkid
12-09-2008, 20:23
Here's that picture zoomed 8x:
You can't really make out anything (as planned), o well one more day :)
Kevin Thorp
13-09-2008, 00:12
Sorry the image can't be clearer. If we shadows have offended, think but this; and all is mended.
GaryVoshol
13-09-2008, 07:33
Sorry the image can't be clearer. If we shadows have offended, think but this; and all is mended.
Bananas and Hamlet - This is almost worse than the FRC teaser clues.
Are we sure there's no fish in the pic?
Kevin Thorp
13-09-2008, 10:44
No bananas, no Hamlet and no fish.
wilsonmw04
13-09-2008, 10:59
6 more hours to go. is the animation going to be posted @ 5 ET on usfirst.org?
Welcome to Face-Off everyone!
The new FTC Challenge was announced today (at 5pm), but Team Unlimited got the chance to see the animation and field ahead of time! We attended a kick-off in Rhode Island where we saw the field and the game animation.
CHECK OUT THE BLOG FOR THE VIDEO AND THE GAME DESCRIPTION! (http://ftcunlimited.blogspot.com/)
Please refer to our blog for the game animation (sorry its low res) and a document scan of the challenge! The full res animation will be released tonight at 5pm, this is just a preview (although it is the offical challenge!).
Best of luck to all teams!
Regards,
Patrick Pilvines, FTC 1, Chief Engineer
ATannahill
13-09-2008, 15:06
is kickoff broadcasted (TV or webcast)?
no official event as far as I know, just them releasing the game and animation via web.
KINGOFCLUBS454
13-09-2008, 15:29
Welcome to Face-Off everyone!
The new FTC Challenge was announced today (at 5pm), but Team Unlimited got the chance to see the animation and field ahead of time! We attended a kick-off in Rhode Island where we saw the field and the game animation.
CHECK OUT THE BLOG FOR THE VIDEO AND THE GAME DESCRIPTION! (http://ftcunlimited.blogspot.com/)
Please refer to our blog for the game animation (sorry its low res) and a document scan of the challenge! The full res animation will be released tonight at 5pm, this is just a preview (although it is the offical challenge!).
Best of luck to all teams!
Regards,
Patrick Pilvines, FTC 1, Chief Engineer
Wow, that's a pretty big leak there, is there anywhere this can be confirmed?
Wow, that's a pretty big leak there, is there anywhere this can be confirmed?
I guess you'll have to wait for 25 minutes :p. But unless RI was given false information from FIRST, I'd say that this is the challenge we are facing.
It looks really cool, I have other video also, but I will get that up tonight if people really want it.
Also feel free to message me, MSN me or AIM me with any questions about how objects react and such, as we had a full field there :)
Again, best of luck to everyone!
Regards,
~Team Unlimited (FTC #1)
What exactly is the deal with exiting the field. Can those platforms tilt downward?
DIRECT LINK TO THE GAME DESCRIPTION: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jsmPPo6FbrM/SMwpamTlPhI/AAAAAAAAA5k/k8a_ve1T-xk/s1600/Face%2BOff.jpg
Sorry, some people had problems viewing that, so I decided to give a direct link
The platforms at the end do go down. There are two starting areas for each alliance, one is right next to that ramp, and one is on the ramp, you drive forward off the ramp to get onto the field (you actually start off the field). You also get a bonus at the end if you end up on those platforms (which will spring back up and you have to pull down to get up :p)
Sorry for the wierd data links everyone.
Kevin Thorp
13-09-2008, 16:54
6 more hours to go. is the animation going to be posted @ 5 ET on usfirst.org?
I think so, but at 4:54 they still have the 2007 game info posted.
Kevin Thorp
13-09-2008, 17:07
It's posted!
http://www.usfirst.org/community/ftc/content.aspx?id=962
My first reaction: All hail the plunger bot!
My second reaction: What's a good way to score and that legos are gonna play a big part of this game I think.
Yay for another great season ahead of us :D
Best of luck everyone :)
The platforms look...interesting.
I can see the gamepieces running out fairly quickly, if teams develop an effective way to capture them as they fall from the loaders. Descoring may be key.
Still don't see why we need the Tetrix kit for this game.
Can the autoloaders tip backwards? That would make a "drain your opponents of gamepieces" strategy quite easy.
Can't say I'm convinced that all these changes to FTC are for the better...
One can rotate the racks, but they can't go backwards, They have to lowered down (like the animation shows, there is a stopper on the back to prevent it from rotating backwards), but nothing is there to prevent it from continuing to rotate until it is backwards. To get the opponents rings out of play, you would have to hold them in the rack until they are outside, or have a plate the slants them out of play.
I hope that helps :)
Kevin Thorp
13-09-2008, 17:59
Can the autoloaders tip backwards? That would make a "drain your opponents of gamepieces" strategy quite easy.
Nope. There are a bolts in the caps to prevent them from rotating away from the field.
You can just as easily grab all your opponent's pucks into a bucket built into your bot.
The strategy: don't score, but take away your opponent's ability to score.
ATannahill
13-09-2008, 18:50
that would not be GP, and against the rules
that would not be GP, and against the rulesProve the latter point. The former is not provable either way.
It would, in fact, be legal according to the rules as written. Whether or not it would be GP is up to interpretation.
that would not be GP, and against the rulesMany would agree that GP or not-GP has nothing to do with the strategy described.
Also, which rule forbids the strategy described? I took a quick scan through the rules and didn't spot one that forbids it or makes it impossible. Did I overlook something?
No, I don't think there is anything in the rules that prevent you from doing it. Though I wouldn't recommend doing it :p.
FYI, I was just commenting on IF you could do it.
Every year that we have alliance specific game pieces, this comes up. I personally wouldn't do it, but according to the rules, it is fine. It just feels to me like losing due to a electrical failure, rather than losing against a good robot. I was not endorsing the strategy with my previous post, just questioning the possibility of it.
I have to say though, even with the racks only rotating forward, this game makes it much easier than past games. Every year prior, I had thought, "okay, teams will do that. How can our strategy beat that?" And to do so, they would have to build a fairly ingenious robot, to pick objects up off the floor, and hold large amounts of them. However, now it seems like a simple arm and bin can, very quickly, remove all gamepieces of a color from play.
I just wouldn't see it as inspirational if a team built a very effective scoring robot, but in all their matches, were unable to even attempt to use it.
It is not un-GP, but certainly not the embodiment of GP either.
Lowfategg
13-09-2008, 19:33
Ha, well I guess a lot of you would not like our robots from last year. :D
I like the game, and I think it will be quite a challenge,
Love the unloaders, the ground traps should be interesting, and the robot drop platform is cool.
But I have a few small gripes so far,
Pucks and rings are too similar, and the field looks some what difficult to build.
Besides these I think its going to be a great game.
Many would agree that GP or not-GP has nothing to do with the strategy described.
Also, which rule forbids the strategy described? I took a quick scan through the rules and didn't spot one that forbids it or makes it impossible. Did I overlook something?OK - So it's not against the rules and some of us can agree to disagree about whether GP has anything to do with it.
My bottom line advice is this:
If you are going to spend your time hording your opponents' pucks, you had better be able to horde them faster than those opponents can horde yours; and you had better be able to score with the remaining pucks (the ones they miss) faster (or better) than they score with the ones that you miss.
I'll tip my hat (and not wag my finger) at any team that can pull that off consistently enough to win a tournament.
Read the rules. Read an introductory text or magazine article on the branch of math called Game Theory (it's not hard to get a common sense understanding of it quickly). Devise a strategy that maximizes your score when you contend against all the opposing strategies you can envision. Play the game. Have fun.
Blake
Ha, well I guess a lot of you would not like our robots from last year. :D
Not quite, for two reasons.
1. It probably could have crushed anyone even if it didn't capture opposing rings. :D
2. It was an innovative, incredible work of engineering. It was a challenging design to do. We discusses something similar, and threw it away as "too hard." You proved us wrong. The engineering required to pull this off this year is far less challenging, and arguably much easier than actually scoring.
Lowfategg
13-09-2008, 19:41
Not quite, for two reasons.
1. It probably could have crushed anyone even if it didn't capture opposing rings. :D
2. It was an innovative, incredible work of engineering. It was a challenging design to do. We discusses something similar, and threw it away as "too hard." You proved us wrong. The engineering required to pull this off this year is far less challenging, and arguably much easier than actually scoring.
Ha! Thanks. :D
I think we all might be surprised by what teams come up with this year. Descoring does look easier, I guess time will tell how many teams go down that road.
Good luck to all teams this year!
FYI, I don't know if anyone would find this useful, but I always doing a 2D view of the top the field at high-res for printing. My team has used these things for strategy making with alliance members, autonomous coordination, etc.
This one is 14" by 14" (about) at 300dpi. Hope people find it useful for the coming months.
It can be found here (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jsmPPo6FbrM/SMxPs_dExCI/AAAAAAAAA5s/rGcjQ_uXayw/s1600/Face%2BOff%2BGame%2BSurface.jpg)
Billfred
13-09-2008, 21:11
I'll tip my hat (and not wag my finger) at any team that can pull that off consistently enough to win a tournament.
FVC 1148 executed this exact strategy on the way to a win at the 2006 FVC Championship, along with Simbotics and Singapore SMART. Wait, we're still playing Half-Pipe Hustle, right?
After watching the animation, I can dig it. The team that does well on the field this year is not going to be all-arm, and they're not going to be all-drivetrain. It should be interesting to see.
ATannahill
13-09-2008, 21:38
are the GDC the same for FTC and FRC? if so i would think this might be a foreshadow of somethings to come, like the spring ramp and rough terrain
I highly doubt it, or we would have heard a lot more about the kerosene game from Dave on here.
ATannahill
13-09-2008, 21:51
I highly doubt it, or we would have heard a lot more about the kerosene game from Dave on here.
kerosene game, whats that?
just the kind of thing we usually hear from Dave in the months leading to kickoff.
Batons, Inflatable Clowns, Water, Curling, Fish, No metal fasteners, Bananas, etc.
Hm I didn't take my idea that seriously. I would think that if you have bots that specialize in capturing stuff and not releasing them, it would hurt everyone in the long run. Also, it is probably more effective to have a robot that blocks others and picks up their own pucks in their own time than to have one that needs to do two things at once.
But if you can accomplish it, more power to you.
The one serious flaw i find with this game is that if you don't make an arm, you can basically get no pucks except for the 4 preloaded ones. Also, the platform raising thing reminds me of FRC two years ago.
Barry Bonzack
14-09-2008, 00:53
Capturing or not, I'm betting we see a lot of teams tipping over the opposing team's pucks before they do.
Do you all think most robots will be loading pucks directly from the loaders, or by picking them up off the ground?
What do you think will be the most common autonomous strategy?
I'm betting half of the robot will not pick up off the ground in order to score more than a point. I also believe the most common autonomous will be loading two pucks in the robot on the field and scoring both in the circle. What are your thoughts?l
I think the most common strategy will be to run in one direction and try to tip over a puck-holder.
The second most common: use the drawn lines and some sensor to follow the lines until a certain point.
I also think we won't see as many auto-feeders this year, and if we do they'll all be picked up from the ground.
...What i really want to see is a plungerbot...All Hail the plungerbot!
I got a few interesting ideas going, unfortinately I don't see Team Unlimited making a plunger bot (although it was tossed out at our first meeting to do for fun :p).
By the way, what do people think about the rules on additional parts for Legos? I saw we can use all the TEXTRIC we want, any Lego sensor, any Vex metal part (except the sliders), but what about more Legos?
Is there a rule for additional lego pieces not included in the NXT kit. I have a spybot kit which came with these rubber treads i think might become useful. Also, my school has an old lego mindstorms kit which we could always try to use I guess.
By the way, what do people think about the rules on additional parts for Legos? I saw we can use all the TEXTRIC we want, any Lego sensor, any Vex part (except the sliders), but what about more Legos?
I thought only vex metal parts were allowed to be used? We can't use their treads or anything of the sort.
As I read the manual, as far as vex goes, we may use "structural parts," such as Vex C-channel, and "Fasteners," such as screws and locknuts, but not any parts like tank treads, sprockets, gears, etc.
Abra Cadabra IV
14-09-2008, 17:03
<R5> apparantly says that only the Lego pieces from the kit are allowed. :mad:
<R5> apparantly says that only the Lego pieces from the kit are allowed. :mad:
Darn, back to the drawing board, I had such a good idea, but I needed a few extra parts from the base kit...maybe I can just scale it down...
EDIT: looking back at that rule, i was thinking that it meant that we were limited to the types of lego parts in the kits, meaning that we can only use those types. E.g. we can't go buy those larger lego tires as they aren't in the kit, but those small balloon tires we can. Opinions?
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