an unusual observation [Archive]

njamietech

19-09-2008, 11:12

has anyone noticed that this forum is unusually quiet for this time of year?

at this time last year we had like two or 3 threads going. Now, we have none.

What happened to the dreaded "water game" rumors and the speculation on unrelated videos and their relation to the next game (if that sentence make sense).

For me, half the fun of the game was speculating and waiting for it before kickoff.

so am I the only one who has noticed this?

or am I just crazy?

Waiting for the first game hint is driving me crazy. lol

anyway, just an observation.

JesseK

19-09-2008, 11:27

It was fun to speculate about a water game during a drought because we all knew it was quite infeasible. Now many teams have been flooded at least once in the last year.

Plus FTC just kicked off, so alot of us are tied up with working on that.

But don't worry, if the FTC game is any indication then FRC will be a bit complicated indeed, so we can speculate about what crazy game elements will be in FRC. After all, in the first 5 seconds of the FTC animation a robot flipped, showing exactly what FIRST expects from teams :ahh:

EricH

19-09-2008, 11:58

And so it begins...

Next thing you know, Dave releases a red herring, and then it gets out of hand.

Daniel_LaFleur

19-09-2008, 12:03

And so it begins...

Next thing you know, Dave releases a red herring, and then it gets out of hand.

and then soon we are all the way to Krispy Kremes and Grateful Dead songs

Elgin Clock

19-09-2008, 12:04

This is actually probably one of the busiest years I've seen these forums during these months.

At least there are actually people (other than mods) talking on here.

I remember back in the day when you would go a couple days without seeing a post, or a new member sign up.

Gone are those days! :cool:

GaryVoshol

19-09-2008, 12:06

... Dave releases a red herring, and then it gets out of hand.One wouldn't want to keep the red herring in hand, that gets kind of stinky.

Joe Ross

19-09-2008, 13:05

has anyone noticed that this forum is unusually quiet for this time of year?

Last month (August) there were 25% more page views then August 2007. You can see all kinds of statistics here: http://stats.chiefdelphi.com/

As for rumors, I heard there is going to be a new control system next year...

IKE

19-09-2008, 13:17

It was fun to speculate about a water game during a drought because we all knew it was quite infeasible. Now many teams have been flooded at least once in the last year.
:ahh:

I personally blame FIRST for a lack of preparedness for national flooding. Had we particapated in a water game hundred's of FIRST teams would have been more prepared with aqua-bots. Did anyone put any ringers to good use?

In all seriousness, this year should be a non ball game. Not likely to be tetras, boxes, innertubes,....hmmmm? I bet the game piece looks like a jax piece.

theun4gven

19-09-2008, 13:49

I bet the game piece looks like a jax piece.

Seeing as how the new controller and camera have built in OCR, shape recognition and color recognition it will probably be more like large colored jacks each labeled individually with a name.

And just because I like to keep the rumors going, the cRio-9072/3/4 Operating Instructions and Specifications available on ni.com contains the following:

Special Conditions for Marine Applications
Some chassis are Lloyd’s Register (LR) Type Approved for marine
applications. To verify Lloyd’s Register certification, visit ni.com/
certification and search for the LR certificate, or look for the Lloyd’s
Register mark on the chassis.

Daniel_LaFleur

19-09-2008, 14:30

In all seriousness, this year should be a non ball game. Not likely to be tetras, boxes, innertubes,....hmmmm? I bet the game piece looks like a jax piece.

Traffic cones ?

lasereyes

19-09-2008, 15:19

And the speculation begins... :)

IKE

19-09-2008, 15:32

Traffic cones ?

Cone heads does have a nice ring to it. <;)

What about horse shoes U?

Spartan151

19-09-2008, 15:35

Cone heads does have a nice ring to it. <;)

True. Very true.

Andrew Schreiber

19-09-2008, 16:18

Traffic cones ?

No, that would remind us Michiganders of Traffic Construction season. We don't need reminders of that. :mad:

Unless we get to run OVER the traffic cones, then it would be slanted towards Michigan drivers, we would just do what we normally do to them. That or cursing at them, its a sport up here to curse at traffic cones ;)

(As a random aside, apparently the spell checker in OS X recognizes Michigander as a word... sweet!)

EricH

19-09-2008, 16:44

Unfortunately for those who don't like traffic cones, a game has been proposed that uses them as the game object...:D

yarb65

19-09-2008, 17:58

No in CA we call it a cone zone.

IKE

20-09-2008, 10:25

Cone Zone with Barrel Bullies.

Object of the game is to find a retrieve cones launched into the playing field and stack them in your home zone. Bonus if you cover your cones with a large traffic barrel.
Format Change:
All bots at a regional play at the same time to truly get that traffic jam level of frustration. Matches extend from the typical 2 minutes to 20 minutes, but there will only be 2 minutes of moving spread out over the 20 minute period.:mad:

EricH

20-09-2008, 13:01

Dick Linn

20-09-2008, 14:02

You'll need at least a few robots designed to wave a traffic flag or lean on a shovel in the end zone to play the cone game. :D

JaneYoung

20-09-2008, 14:10

It wouldn't be right to leave out the caution saw horse whose only purpose seems to be to partially block a closed lane, or rather, open lane, adding confusion when it is supposed to add direction and flow. The traffic flag laying on its side could add to the direction/flow/confusion/blockage - then the caution saw horse would serve its purpose, fully.

I think.

IKE

20-09-2008, 21:48

Althewierd

20-09-2008, 22:50

though the last few years have seen the main object as a ball, it isn't any less likely to be a ball this year. The ball is a fundamental piece of many internationally acclaimed games and hundreds more unofficial.

On the subject of the game, every year I think, "how can they ever make it better than last year?" and every year, they do. :)

EricH

20-09-2008, 22:58

though the last few years have seen the main object as a ball, it isn't any less likely to be a ball this year. The ball is a fundamental piece of many internationally acclaimed games and hundreds more unofficial. As a matter of fact, that is not the case. Take a good look at the games for the past several years. I can only think of one time there's been two or more "ball" games in a row, and that was 2000-2002. Since then, crates, balls, tetras, balls, pool tubes, balls. Before then, similar pattern.

Analysis indicates that we're due for a non-ball year.

Althewierd

21-09-2008, 10:36

that's a good observation but whether or not there was a ball last year for the game does not affect whether or not there is a ball this year. Its all up to FIRST.

Though, I do hope the pattern stays true. :)

kamocat

21-09-2008, 15:36

I was thinking frisbees might be fun.
At any rate, I'm hoping for something we have to launch into the air.

EDIT:
We could be required to skip a frisbee-like gamepiece off water. Say each gamepeice has a name printed along the rim, and we have to skip each gamepiece accross the water a number of times before we can let it sink to the bottom of the pool. Points would be allocated for skipping the gamepieces, but most of the points would be in sinking the gamepiece at the appropriate time. The autonomous period at the beginning would be dredging the frisbees out of the bottom of the pool (the pool would only be a meter in depth).

EricH

21-09-2008, 16:37

I was remembering that earlier this year, Dave posted a picture of a glass of water on a pair of Mars bars. Twice. That must be a...

...Game Hint!

Jon236

21-09-2008, 16:41

I was remembering that earlier this year, Dave posted a picture of a glass of water on a pair of Mars bars. Twice. That must be a...

...Game Hint!

You wish......it probably had more to do with the discovery of water on Mars!

kamocat

21-09-2008, 18:16

Aha! Confectionary contest! I like it!

JaneYoung

21-09-2008, 18:35

so do saw horses wear horse shoes?

haha!

Well, we'd have to round them up.

(Thought you threw me a curve, didn't ya? :))

dlavery

21-09-2008, 19:22

Though, I do hope the pattern stays true. :)

There has been a pattern? Awww, crap. Now we have to start the design all over again....

-dave

.

kamocat

21-09-2008, 20:05

There has been a pattern? Awww, crap. Now we have to start the design all over again....
The patterns would be a little easier if they actually gave information on years before 2002. Heck, I'd really like them to create videos for every year's FRC competition, but I know they don't have the time. And besides that, I think they were origionally something more like an actually assembly line, but they found people were more exited about the sports aspect of it.

At any rate, the field stays about the same size, the robots need about the same maneuverability, and have the same constraints. One of my main questions is: Will there be a robocoach this year? (I'm hoping there won't)

rtfgnow

21-09-2008, 20:15

I doubt there will.

Also if you look closer at Dave's post it indicates that there is no ball this year.

Michelle Celio

21-09-2008, 20:15

Though, I do hope the pattern stays true. :)

Pattern?

1992 - Circle - Balls
1993 - Circle - Balls
1994 - Circle - Balls
1995 - Circle - Balls
1996 - Circle - Balls
1997 - Circle - Tubes
1998 - Circle - Balls
1999 - Circle - Floppies
2000 - Circle - Balls
2001 - Circle - Balls
2002 - Circle - Balls
2003 - Square - Bins
2004 - Circle - Balls
2005 - Triangle - Tetras
2006 - Circle - Balls
2007 - Circle - Tubes
2008 - Circle - Balls

The patterns would be a little easier if they actually gave information on years before 2002. Heck, I'd really like them to create videos for every year's FRC competition, but I know they don't have the time. And besides that, I think they were origionally something more like an actually assembly line, but they found people were more exited about the sports aspect of it.

There is FIRST wiki, and normal wikipeida both have information on the games. Not videos, but still information. Also, FRC 45 has information from 1992.

Althewierd

21-09-2008, 21:03

Pattern?

1992 - Circle - Balls
1993 - Circle - Balls
1994 - Circle - Balls
1995 - Circle - Balls
1996 - Circle - Balls
1997 - Circle - Tubes
1998 - Circle - Balls
1999 - Circle - Floppies
2000 - Circle - Balls
2001 - Circle - Balls
2002 - Circle - Balls
2003 - Square - Bins
2004 - Circle - Balls
2005 - Triangle - Tetras
2006 - Circle - Balls
2007 - Circle - Tubes
2008 - Circle - Balls

There is FIRST wiki, and normal wikipeida both have information on the games. Not videos, but still information. Also, FRC 45 has information from 1992.

I was referencing the more recent pattern...ball...other...ball...other...and so on. I think we should have a non-ball game this year, but simple logic says it could go either way.

IKE

21-09-2008, 21:18

by the above analysis, does a cone get classified as a trianlge or a cirlce?

EricH

21-09-2008, 21:20

by the above analysis, does a cone get classified as a trianlge or a cirlce?
It's triangle, circle, square from the side, top, bottom, respectively.

kamocat

21-09-2008, 23:27

Perhaps they'll use hemispheres.
I'm starting to wonder who actually manufactures their gamepeices.

IKE

22-09-2008, 07:00

I actually figured this years game would look a lot like what the VEX game ended up being with several sizes of boxes.

Daniel_LaFleur

22-09-2008, 12:15

It's triangle, circle, square from the side, top, bottom, respectively.

While I'd doubt they'd choose the traffic cone as an object ... it would be cool.:cool:

And since Dave has decided to post here, I guess it's now officially red herring season :eek:

Let the speculation begin

kamocat

22-09-2008, 22:51

Now that you mention it, a fish-shaped object would be fun. How about a modification of that game where you have a wooden fish on a stick and have to flip in and guide it through the hole in the stick? To make the robot less jerky, the floor could be made of moving sidewalks (or rather, moving carpets)

EDIT:
as far as boxes go, having to build a staircase might be fun. Heck, we could use a giant slinky as a main gamepiece!

I'm sure this coming year's competition will be quite different from the last, but I'm not sure how they can make it wildly different from the previous years. Unless they put a lazy suzan type table in the center. Ahah! We could shoot balls at targets along the perimeter. Considering they're playing with floor textures in FTC, we might have some slippery spots (and maybe even a hill we have to pass over where it won't work if we don't have enough momentum). Centrifugal force would certainly be fun, but I suppose we can't play with magnets too much if we plan to bring laptops (the cRIO flash memory would be fine as long as the magnets did not induce excessive voltage, which would be fairly unlikely. The only thing we'd have to worry about is eddy currents from all the aluminum in the robots.

Any more ideas for water games? (Let's aim to make Chief Delphi a respected place for finding competition ideas)

lasereyes

22-09-2008, 23:22

Wooden fish, wouldn't it be better to have live fish? (water game!)

JaneYoung

22-09-2008, 23:24

(Let's aim to make Chief Delphi a respected place for finding competition ideas)

Have you ever checked out the FRC Game Design forum here in ChiefDelphi?

This (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67677) is one of the threads.

IKE

23-09-2008, 09:10

Any more ideas for water games? (Let's aim to make Chief Delphi a respected place for finding competition ideas)

I can't believe that these two phrases can be put together.:p

Very nice.

JesseK

23-09-2008, 10:48

While I'd doubt they'd choose the traffic cone as an object ... it would be cool.:cool:

I disagree -- cones are relatively cheap, lightweight, can take a beating, and are usually nice and bright so they can be incorporated into vision recognition. Plus they come in many sizes, and there are even very small sports cones that mark off a soccer or frisbee field. I think they would be pretty difficult to pick up too because some of them are fairly squishy.

What if the game was like Driver's Ed, where the bots could parallel park, change lanes, etc...think of the possibilities that could mimic learning how to drive on the road!

EricH

23-09-2008, 11:48

I disagree -- cones are relatively cheap, lightweight, can take a beating, and are usually nice and bright so they can be incorporated into vision recognition. Plus they come in many sizes, and there are even very small sports cones that mark off a soccer or frisbee field. I think they would be pretty difficult to pick up too because some of them are fairly squishy.Better (or worse) still, there are different shapes. There are the traditional cones, the pillars, the road barrels (2+ sizes), the flat soccer cones, collapsing cones (which would be really hard to handle due to being super squishy)...

Dick Linn

23-09-2008, 12:05

Along with cones, they could have pot-holes filled with water.

lasereyes

23-09-2008, 13:27

I like where this is going. Hopefully someone from FIRST takes a look at this thread.

EricH

23-09-2008, 14:53

I like where this is going. Hopefully someone from FIRST takes a look at this thread.
Cones have been suggested in the Game Design forum already, with a game included.

Oh, and at least one GDC member has seen the thread at least once. He's also changing up his signature again...

... Which simply means that he's (trying to) mess with our heads again.

(For the record, it's now "To the six-you give me my fix." changed from something about "To the five-you keep my hopes alive." I don't put a whole lot on his signature, though on occasion it's accurate.)

Koko Ed

23-09-2008, 16:30

Unless we get to run OVER the traffic cones, then it would be slanted towards Michigan drivers, we would just do what we normally do to them. That or cursing at them, its a sport up here to curse at traffic cones ;)

Is cursing at Michiganders who party in your hotel parking lot in the middle of the night a sport (probably more like a hazard)?

Koko Ed

23-09-2008, 16:32

Cones have been suggested in the Game Design forum already, with a game included.

Oh, and at least one GDC member has seen the thread at least once. He's also changing up his signature again...

... Which simply means that he's (trying to) mess with our heads again.

(For the record, it's now "To the six-you give me my fix." changed from something about "To the five-you keep my hopes alive." I don't put a whole lot on his signature, though on occasion it's accurate.)

I still push for the awesome Bumble Ball! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXHtdDTVc8s)

IKE

23-09-2008, 16:35

I still push for the awesome Bumble Ball! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXHtdDTVc8s)

Does that come in 40" size.:)

Koko Ed

23-09-2008, 16:39

Does that come in 40" size.:)

That would be fascinating and dangerous at the same time.
Let's make one!

JaneYoung

23-09-2008, 16:42

I still push for the awesome Bumble Ball! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXHtdDTVc8s)

I knew this was coming. I just knew it. I could have predicted it. I could have bet a hot fudge sundae on it. Sure as your name is Koko Ed.

Koko Ed

23-09-2008, 16:48

I knew this was coming. I just knew it. I could have predicted it. I could have bet a hot fudge sundae on it. Sure as your name is Koko Ed.

Am I that predictable, Jane?

Andrew Schreiber

23-09-2008, 16:52

Is cursing at Michiganders who party in your hotel parking lot in the middle of the night a sport (probably more like a hazard)?

That depends on where in Michigan they are from. ;)

JaneYoung

23-09-2008, 16:58

Am I that predictable, Jane?

When it comes to bumble balls and FRC game suggestions, yup, yup, you are. Yup. And that you always help out in any way you can at any event you can fit into your schedule. That's predictable, too.

Koko Ed

23-09-2008, 17:04

When it comes to bumble balls and FRC game suggestions, yup, yup, you are. Yup. And that you always help out in any way you can at any event you can fit into your schedule. That's predictable, too.

I like order.

DMetalKong

23-09-2008, 18:51

Oh, and at least one GDC member has seen the thread at least once. He's also changing up his signature again...

... Which simply means that he's (trying to) mess with our heads again.

(For the record, it's now "To the six-you give me my fix." changed from something about "To the five-you keep my hopes alive." I don't put a whole lot on his signature, though on occasion it's accurate.)

"The Five, also known as The Mighty Handful (Russian: Могучая кучка, Moguchaya kuchka), refers to a circle of composers who met in Saint Petersburg, Russia"

"Les Six, a group of six French composers working in Montparnasse in the early 20th century"

Obviously our next task will be to make music with our robots.

ChrisH

23-09-2008, 20:48

"Obviously our next task will be to make music with our robots.

Or maybe just have them work in harmony

kamocat

23-09-2008, 20:54

I like the idea of making tones and chords (with the help of other robots) to accomplish tasks. It's more puzzle-oriented, but it might be fun

kamocat

23-09-2008, 21:06

That would be fascinating and dangerous at the same time.
Let's make one!
And as far as that goes, I'm thinking old pogo sticks might come in handy. If you took a giant ball with spikes like that, and tensioned a large weight in the center correctly, you could make a self-cleaning ball that would crawl over objects! (by self-cleaning, I mean the spikes would retract when they near the top of the ball, and thus scrape off any debris they may have picked up)

Daniel_LaFleur

24-09-2008, 09:47

"The Five, also known as The Mighty Handful (Russian: Могучая кучка, Moguchaya kuchka), refers to a circle of composers who met in Saint Petersburg, Russia"

"Les Six, a group of six French composers working in Montparnasse in the early 20th century"

Obviously our next task will be to make music with our robots.

Hmmm .... I wonder if the OCR on the cRIO can be tweaked to recognise notes and chords :eek:

IKE

24-09-2008, 10:07

Traffic cone trumpeting anyone?

JesseK

24-09-2008, 10:39

Traffic cone trumpeting anyone?

I was along the same lines. Another option is to make random notes of music in the same way that the Boston subway stations around MIT do -- large wind chimes.

JaneYoung

24-09-2008, 10:45

I was along the same lines. Another option is to make random notes of music in the same way that the Boston subway stations around MIT do -- large wind chimes.

*ears perk up* - are there any photos or links that tell about this? It sounds cool.

JesseK

24-09-2008, 11:43

*ears perk up* - are there any photos or links that tell about this? It sounds cool.

A little more research and I've found that they're only at Kendall Square. Skip to about 0:58 into this video and you can see what I'm talking about:
Some random dude's 3 minutes of youtube fame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz2ZgTss6nM)

Also, apparently (blog link) (http://www.hijabman.com/journal/three-beautiful-things-thursdays-subway-platforms) there are levers to control the chimes, a gong, and sheet metal.

Cynette

24-09-2008, 15:24

I like the idea of making tones and chords (with the help of other robots) to accomplish tasks. It's more puzzle-oriented, but it might be fun

I was along the same lines. Another option is to make random notes of music in the same way that the Boston subway stations around MIT do -- large wind chimes.

Or build robots who can make the field play a pre-engineered tune, like the road in California that was grooved to play the William Tell Overture. Here is the link to the news story, videos are on YouTube, but I can't get to them from here! http://cbs2.com/local/William.Tell.Road.2.822008.html

kamocat

24-09-2008, 20:30

Or build robots who can make the field play a pre-engineered tune, like the road in California that was grooved to play the William Tell Overture. Here is the link to the news story, videos are on YouTube, but I can't get to them from here! http://cbs2.com/local/William.Tell.Road.2.822008.html
Weird! I guess I was wrong in thinking no-one would actually use that idea. Well, as long as they're not using it for word advertisements, I'm fine. (it looks like if they made the road actually have that sort of clarity and resistance to wear, then it would be much more slippery when wet and would have no flex in earthquakes)

On a different note, using chimes as targets (or actuated by targets) is brilliant! You could even have a marimba-type thing (with a resonating chamber).

kamocat

27-09-2008, 19:45

How about a giant funnel, like those things that marbles spiral down? (line the rim with chimes and keep the lazy suzan in the center) The gamepieces would be those little blue racquetballs that team 128 was handing out at nationals. Near the base of the chimes there'd be a shield to hold the balls in and keep them from bouncing all over the place; instead letting them roll down the funnel (maybe in a spiral). The goal would be to throw the balls up and hit the chimes (more points for certain interval sequences). Getting hit by your opponents balls (when they're on the ground) would give them points. Firing balls at an opponent would be penalized. As your balls are rolling down the funnel, you should try to pick them up. The "spout" of the funnel is just a recession that makes it more of a pain to collect balls (encouraging teamwork). Since this might require a ceiling, there could be a giant gong (suspended horizontally) in the middle of the ceiling, where you get special points if you hit it. You are also awarded those points if you fire some balls on top of the gong, and someone else knocks them off by firing at the gong.

Now what could Autonomous be? (thus the problem)

dbs12693x

28-09-2008, 18:06

lasereyes

28-09-2008, 18:08

We've had robot basketball and nascar..
'07 was kind of like "Tic-tac-toe."

Now comes...Soccer?
Maybe Scrabble?

Yes, robots moving huge tiles under time! It would use shape-recognition, at least for autonomous :rolleyes: .

I'm pretty sure a Brazilian team would win if it was soccer... ;)

EricH

28-09-2008, 18:13

We've had robot basketball and nascar..
'07 was kind of like "Tic-tac-toe."

Now comes...Soccer?
Maybe Scrabble?

Yes, robots moving huge tiles under time! It would use shape-recognition, at least for autonomous :rolleyes: .
Tic-tac-toe was 2005; 2007 was Connect 4. Hmm...board game, sports game, board game, sports game... Uh-oh.

lasereyes

28-09-2008, 18:14

Tic-tac-toe was 2005; 2007 was Connect 4. Hmm...board game, sports game, board game, sports game... Uh-oh.

Woot! New patterns are emerging!

Lydia_1739

28-09-2008, 18:46

Monopoly!
Checkers!
Chess!

Dick Linn

28-09-2008, 19:06

I was along the same lines. Another option is to make random notes of music in the same way that the Boston subway stations around MIT do -- large wind chimes.

We have a stretch of Interstate 295 around Richmond that is so cratered and patched that when you drive over it, it seems to play a tune. It's hard to make out, but I think it's "Don't know whose rear-end is gonna fall off first - mine or the truck's". It's an old blues tune.

GaryVoshol

28-09-2008, 22:01

Tic-tac-toe was 2005; 2007 was Connect 4. Hmm...board game, sports game, board game, sports game... Uh-oh.

Monopoly!
Checkers!
Chess!
Risk! With real bombs - small, but real.

thehurd03

29-09-2008, 15:42

Risk! With real bombs - small, but real.

We could have water bombs!

Water Game+Board Game...
Now all we need is a fire game!
I know!

on an allience we would have one fire fighter bot, one bomb droper, and one platform bot that would have to have bombs droped on it butalso do the platform thing that we did in 07, and then for your team to get points your bot has to not be on fire at the end but it and you would also get points for being on the platform but if the other allience drops bombs on the fire fighter bot they get major penaltys and vice versa

this will never happen but atleast it would make robotics less nerdy....
we mght get some outsider fans too....h

kamocat

29-09-2008, 21:42

Why not go the safer route? Use the robots to play Magic the Gathering. (with giant cards, of course). Autonomous would be building cards into the deck.

IKE

30-09-2008, 09:01

Battleship. Sort of a water game. Sort of a board game. Actually that would probably suck as a spectator competition unless it was the Deluxe Talking Battleship.

kamocat

30-09-2008, 19:55

At this rate we could just play marbles.

But no, I still like that stuff involving tones and intervals. I suppose we could have something where the robots move around the area, find the data ports in the walls (each which has a few kilobytes of memory to store a waveform), and try to assemble a wave sequence to unlock some sort of code. Or they could be given sheet music which they must read and play (and then post in the .abc format (http://abc.sourceforge.net/). bonus points for making up lyrics to go along with it)

This is only the 80th post, and it's already way past feasible. What was I saying about making FIRST actually consider the ideas in this thread? This stuff might be usable in ten years or so.

How about really fun and funky stuff, like ferrofluid, non-newtonian fluid, or jello?

(and now for my 4th edit)
What about different sized balls, so each makes a "boing" of a different pitch? Some could even be filled with different liquids or gasses (helium in one, nitrogen in another, argon or xenon in a third)

EricH

30-09-2008, 20:32

How about really fun and funky stuff, like ferrofluid, non-newtonian fluid, or jello?Not the JELLO GAME again! (Dave's other favorite game, second only to water, Mars, or Krispy Kremes...)

kamocat

01-10-2008, 20:46

Not the JELLO GAME again! (Dave's other favorite game, second only to water, Mars, or Krispy Kremes...)
The only reason I mentioned jello is because I had an awesome idea a while back of embedding iron shavings in jello. Now that I know of ferrofluid, it's a little moot, but still fun.
How about a textured jelly? Something along the lines of clay or play-do for robots.
Another option is to have (almost) fully elastic balls, that increase in "hardness" as they near the core. This would create a nice splat-bounce effect. (if you put a skin on it, you could do it with cubes too)

JesseK

02-10-2008, 13:42

Not the JELLO GAME again! (Dave's other favorite game, second only to water, Mars, or Krispy Kremes...)

The Office quote:
ALRIGHT, WHO stuck my robot in JELLO?!?! JIM???

kamocat

07-10-2008, 00:28

Honestly, what worries me most is that they'll choose a gamepiece that will obstruct the cameras. Anything else is just in good fun.

sayso_411

07-10-2008, 07:33

Idk...I think FIRST is going to try something simple yet difficult because of the new controller and hard economic times; after all they have got to watch their costs too!

kamocat

07-10-2008, 19:09

Well, the traffic barrels certainly would be fun if they shut off the lights for part of the competition. To reduce worry about all the switching of lights on the lifetime of the bulbs, they could use LEDs (I reccommend the L2K2-MWC4-11-0200 (http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon/luxeonK2) (that's the brightest cool-white luxeon K2 star that they offer), but the neutral-white or warm-white LEDs might be easier on the eyes.
I tested the efficiency of one of the cool-whites as my science project in 9th grade, and found them to be slightly more efficient than the fluorescent I tested (and in this case, much brighter as well).

smartkid

08-10-2008, 11:24

Why not go the safer route? Use the robots to play Magic the Gathering. (with giant cards, of course). Autonomous would be building cards into the deck.

And then my white sliver deck starts confusing the refs. because of all the chain abilities! :D

MishraArtificer

08-10-2008, 16:34

And then my white sliver deck starts confusing the refs. because of all the chain abilities! :D

...and what would happen to my Artifact deck? I think the judges would have to ban the Affinity mechanic!

kamocat

08-10-2008, 18:10

I was intending it to be one of those competitions where you don't bring your own cards; you're given a deck to play with (and I believe you get to keep that deck afterwards).
At any rate, it'd make it harder to keep it involved with the community. However, they might focus a little more on the West Coast (say, hold Nationals in Washington State).

MiniNerd24

08-10-2008, 18:17

This is probably a lame thought but maybe it will be somehow related to a recent movie. Like Ironman or something.

GGCO

09-10-2008, 21:57

A water game would be crazy fun! Wow...totally expensive though.

Dick Linn

10-10-2008, 09:17

A water game would be crazy fun! Wow...totally expensive though.

Hmm, "FIRST Flotilla"? 40 MPH RC boats in autonomous mode :ahh:

kamocat

10-10-2008, 11:46

That'd have to have waterfoils, wouldn't they? I don't think a hovercraft would go that fast.
Then again, how do you stop a boat going at 40 mph? You can't swamp it, and you can't make it skip out of the water.

kamocat

03-11-2008, 00:18

What happened? Did everyone else suddenly find out what the game was going to be or what?

ChrisH

03-11-2008, 01:39

What happened? Did everyone else suddenly find out what the game was going to be or what?

No, just more endless speculation. It gives us something to do while we wait for Kickoff. If you hang around you get used to it. Though we do seem to have a love-hate relationship with the idea of a "water game". It always comes up and is dismissed for a variety of reasons. It would present a number of interesting challenges which makes it so attractive. Of course, the idea of shooting things came up regularly too, and was usually dismissed as well .... until 2006

kamocat

03-11-2008, 20:57

Well, I can definitely understand shooting things, but why not catching things as well? Talk about challenging!

ChrisH

04-11-2008, 01:50

Well, I can definitely understand shooting things, but why not catching things as well? Talk about challenging!

There you go again, giving the Game Design Committee fiendish ideas. You do realize that at least some of them read CD right?

JaneYoung

04-11-2008, 12:02

There you go again, giving the Game Design Committee fiendish ideas. You do realize that at least some of them read CD right?

I always envision members of the GDC kicked back in comphy chairs, snacking on donuts or fruit and sipping their beverage of choice - Diet Coke, steaming coffee, yummy apple cider... and they chuckle as they read through the thread suggestions. Then, they tip back the lid on their Pandora's Box, rummage through it and say, "ah yes, that was a good idea...", smile, tuck the idea back down in the box and continue snacking and sipping, smiling contentedly in their Cheshire Cat way.

But that's just me.

ebarker

04-11-2008, 14:45

A water game would be crazy fun! Wow...totally expensive though.

But if you place the ball on TOP of the ring then it will be worth a 60 point bonus !!!

more photos (http://www.kellmarine.org/my_images/DSC_06.JPG)

http://www.kellmarine.org/my_images/DSC_06.JPG

Cyberphil

04-11-2008, 16:56

In all seriousness, this year should be a non ball game. Not likely to be tetras, boxes, innertubes,....hmmmm? I bet the game piece looks like a jax piece.

That would be extremely interesting. I wonder what the game would be.

IKE

04-11-2008, 21:30

That would be extremely interesting. I wonder what the game would be.

I would call it Jax in a Box.
Teams would start (spring) from a boxed and walled initial footprint just large enough for 3 machines.
Numerous standard sized blue and red Jax would be used as playing pieces. Pieces would be scored by placing them in boxes. Most boxes would be large enough for them to easily fit into (2 points), however each team would have a bonus box that the Jax would just barely fit into if oriented just right (10 pts).

As a bonus teams would have to fit their robots into a box just barely larger than the start configuration. 1 machine 5 points, 2 machines 10 points, 3 machines 25 points.

kamocat

04-11-2008, 21:35

Y'know, I really can't help it. I'm the lead programmer designing what could be the most awesome high-level autonomous setup; assuming I get it it done before January, I'll have to have something programmatically challenging to deal with.

Cyberphil

04-11-2008, 22:30

I would call it Jax in a Box.
Teams would start (spring) from a boxed and walled initial footprint just large enough for 3 machines.
Numerous standard sized blue and red Jax would be used as playing pieces. Pieces would be scored by placing them in boxes. Most boxes would be large enough for them to easily fit into (2 points), however each team would have a bonus box that the Jax would just barely fit into if oriented just right (10 pts).

As a bonus teams would have to fit their robots into a box just barely larger than the start configuration. 1 machine 5 points, 2 machines 10 points, 3 machines 25 points.

I like it.[seriously]
Did you send this to Dean? Cause you probably should, if they're running out of ideas.[/sarcasm]

IKE

04-11-2008, 23:03

I like it.[seriously]
Did you send this to Dean? Cause you probably should, if they're running out of ideas.[/sarcasm]

I am sure that either an FRC or FTC will or has done something like this. I think it would be a fun game to do the everybody crowd into a phone booth finish. Have the judges come out with the slider to see who is in and who is out of the box.

Cyberphil

05-11-2008, 21:34

I am sure that either an FRC or FTC will or has done something like this. I think it would be a fun game to do the everybody crowd into a phone booth finish. Have the judges come out with the slider to see who is in and who is out of the box.

But how would you know who put them in? Would you have jacks for your alliance? Or just jacks for everyone? or would you have to put the jacks into your teams "box?" I still think its a good idea.

IKE

06-11-2008, 09:03

But how would you know who put them in? Would you have jacks for your alliance? Or just jacks for everyone? or would you have to put the jacks into your teams "box?" I still think its a good idea.

Red and Blue Jax. Think similar to Triple Play (one of my favorite games). Two loader stations. 1 people loader for the human player (disables the robot), and 1 Autoloader that the robot can get a game piece from the side of the field.

Andrew Schreiber

06-11-2008, 10:26

If we are talking about Jacks, isnt there a ball involved in that game? Bring back the track balls and make us use them. Have a single trackball on the field, the field split into two halves. Only allow teams to score while the trackball is on their opponents half the field. Except for the last 30 seconds. If there is a rule about not being able to HOLD the ball (only bump) we wouldnt see teams shutting everyone out.

The benefit would be having two radically different pieces would mean students would learn that specialization is important. Also, it allow teams who can just make a box on wheels valuable in that they could control the ball.

kamocat

09-11-2008, 12:56

so what do you do when the ball's off the ground, say, being thrown over to the other side?

Andrew Schreiber

09-11-2008, 15:54

so what do you do when the ball's off the ground, say, being thrown over to the other side?

Same thing you did in 06, defend, but in this case you try to get the ball on the other side.

Daniel_LaFleur

10-11-2008, 09:33

so what do you do when the ball's off the ground, say, being thrown over to the other side?

Ohhhh ... robotic Vollyball anyone?

Cyberphil

10-11-2008, 19:11

Ohhhh ... robotic Vollyball anyone?

That sounds pretty cool, but not all the bots can play the game, they've got to have other ways to score also. That would be awesome!

kamocat

10-11-2008, 19:49

How about robotic frisbee golf?

(I think Ultimate Frisbee would be a little unreasonable and could lead to a LOT of damaged 'bots)

Enigma's puzzle

13-11-2008, 15:41

rock'em sock'em robots, every robot has a bumper that can recognize contact. the robots run around trying to hit when you get hit you are disabled, last man standing wins

kamocat

13-11-2008, 21:49

slight problem: it's too much like battlebots. Where's the quiet strategy?

JaneYoung

13-11-2008, 22:15

Where's the quiet strategy?

I think of it almost as a dance: the combination of design strategy, game strategy, alliance strategy - all of it working towards the goal of playing the game well and executing beautifully, bringing out the ooohs and aaahs from everyone, including the teams involved. Very cool.

Robert Cawthon

18-11-2008, 10:27

so what do you do when the ball's off the ground, say, being thrown over to the other side?

Ball's in the air? Flew out of the arena? Free for all in scoring! Thinking back to the 2006 game, how about one robot being allowed to cross over to the other side for defense?

kamocat

19-11-2008, 01:13

Well, I suppose you could play a sort of musical chairs with the robots during that period

Burmeister #279

21-11-2008, 12:57

so what will the auton consist of in these games?

kamocat

21-11-2008, 20:35

Arranging the chairs. Points for certain mathematical formations.
Wait, that would also be better as teleop. (and I wasn't originally thinking actual chairs)

Well, say you have a track around these "chairs", with jumps and hoops and targets along the way. It'd only be roughly related, but doable.
Alternately, you could use a cloverleaf track, and have the robots place traffic cones for guiding the robots during teleop. (In this case auto mode would be purely strategy).

Other than that, I'm not really sure. It wouldn't be very fun without an auto mode.

CraigHickman

21-11-2008, 21:17

Whatever they do this season, I really hope it's more fun for the audience to watch. Overdrive was nascar, but with less noise and wow. Rack and Roll was cool to watch, but hard to tell who was winning. Aim High: Now THAT wad golden. A blast to play, and a blast to watch. I hope we get something along those lines this season.

hipsterjr

22-11-2008, 01:00

It sense a growing trend that many think that the game this year will in some way involve stairs or climbing. I have seen some climber designs floating around and have been guilty myself of discussing possible designs focused around stairs.

I think it is one of the most realistic possibilities.

kamocat

22-11-2008, 01:27

Since I was a seven I've thought about how to design a forklift that could climb stairs yet still travel on level ground.

I suppose, to encourage very different designs, there could be a long spiral staircase with even steps, and a shorter, (somewhat) straighter one with varying step length.
For 2010, something requiring shock absorbtion would be fun (perhaps jumping robots?)!