Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

[Steven Sigley]

I don't know how early FIRST has to get in their requests, but if we could host the Championship in the New Dallas Cowboys Stadium

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Cowboys_New_Stadium

That would be a mind-blowing experience.
A giant screen in the middle to display Einstein field, plus plenty of room for the growth of FIRST: from 80-100,000 seats

Do you think this would be a feasible idea?

[EricH]

Is there a building large enough for the pits nearby? (I.E., closer than the Astrodome to the Reliant.) If not, then it isn't feasible, unless there's a LOT of empty space in the stadium.

Yeah, I suppose you could do a tent village for the pits, but anyone who went to a pre-2003 Championship will probably not be happy at the suggestion.

[Nawaid Ladak]

aye: lets go back to DISNEY if it's possible...

but the new playhouse would be great.

[Cory]

Is there a building large enough for the pits nearby? (I.E., closer than the Astrodome to the Reliant.) If not, then it isn't feasible, unless there's a LOT of empty space in the stadium.

Yeah, I suppose you could do a tent village for the pits, but anyone who went to a pre-2003 Championship will probably not be happy at the suggestion.

How come? I thought the tents were pretty cool in 2002 (my only year I went to Epcot). FIRST has grown far too large for it to work going forward though.

I have no knowledge of the bid process for the championship but I suspect it's too late for any newcomers. If it's leaving Atlanta I'd have to imagine FIRST already has a preferred location and negotiations with the city are under way.

I also suspect it's not going much if any farther west than Atlanta. Leaving the middle of the country makes it much more difficult for the majority of teams to get there.

[R.C.]

aye: lets go back to DISNEY if it's possible...

but the new playhouse would be great.

I never knew that a Championship was held there. I forgot, I've only been in the program for 4 years.

[Sunbun]

Extremely wild idea...

How feasible would it be to have the Championship held in Canada?

[artdutra04]

Do you think this would be a feasible idea?In short, no.

While you may be able to fit all of the teams, pits, etc. either in their new stadium or in the parking lots around it, it would not be feasible to host the Championships there. Do a search on Google Maps for "hotels near Dallas Cowboys New Stadium". There is no way you can fit 30,000 people in hotels within walking distance, since there is only two hotels within a one mile radius.

Now you can expand this radius if the stadium is along a public transit route, as hotels around all nearby stations/stops are all feasible if there is a discount given to FIRST teams (as there is in Atlanta with MARTA). Since I can see no obvious high-capacity public transit rail lines near the stadium, I cannot feasibly see a way where this would be possible (short of setting up dozens of shuttle buses on a continuous loop), which would be a very expensive and time consuming burden.

Now regardless of one's opinions of Atlanta, the city is perfectly situated to host the Championships. They have a large stadium with more adjacent convention center space than one can shake a stick at. The stadium is right in a downtown area with dozens of hotels within a one mile walking distance. In addition, the GA Dome has its own MARTA station, greatly expanding the feasible hotel radius. Atlanta is generally warm during April, and is also a major hub for many [International] airlines (which can lead to cheaper plane ticket prices).

Now in the past, Disney also suited these goals well: They had plenty of hotel space, a dedicated high capacity bus/monorail transit system, a warm climate, located in popular destination (Orlando) only a short 20 minute drive from an International Airport, and the fact that it was Walt Disney World definitely helped. But FIRST kind of outgrew the temporary tents they would have to build in the Epcot parking lot, so FIRST had to look elsewhere... :-/

[Cory]

Extremely wild idea...

How feasible would it be to have the Championship held in Canada?

I can't ever see a situation in which it could happen.

[R.C.]

Extremely wild idea...

How feasible would it be to have the Championship held in Canada?

Most of the teams are out of the U.S. I like Canada anyways, WestEd Mall here I come.

[ttldomination]

I think we should keep the championships in GA. The World Congress Center provides a great place for pits, while the GA Dome is right next to center. The Dome can comfortably seat a LOT of people.

If we do want to try and grow, and try a "change", I was in Florida, when I was able to take a quick peek at the Orange County Convention center, (I think that's what it's called). The facility is state of the art and it's humongous. It has different wings, (North, South, East, and West) and it would more than suffice for a world championship.

[Wayne C.]

aye: lets go back to DISNEY if it's possible...



Amen to that. From the point of a coach who arranges the trip and needs to occupy and account for the students in the off hours Disney was the ideal "family" location. I know of NUMEROUS other coaches who agree with this. Is anybody listening?

WC :cool:

[R.C.]

Amen to that. From the point of a coach who arranges the trip and needs to occupy and account for the students in the off hours Disney was the ideal "family" location. I know of NUMEROUS other coaches who agree with this. Is anybody listening?

WC :cool:

I think that everyone would like to go, but i heard the tents were the problem. So how do we fix that.

[Michelle Celio]

Amen to that. From the point of a coach who arranges the trip and needs to occupy and account for the students in the off hours Disney was the ideal "family" location. I know of NUMEROUS other coaches who agree with this. Is anybody listening?

WC :cool:

Being from the Greater Orlando Area, I can try to put a perspective on this.

There are two venues in the state of Florida, in the Orlando area, that could possibly be able to house the Championship.

There is one venue in the Kissimmee, The Silver Spurs Arena, that would be perfect, it would have less of a walk from the pits to the fields but we run into a lack of hotels for the teams in that area. However, as previously mentioned in the thread, when the consideration about hosting it in TX came up, we run into the same problem. Which is the lack of hotels. But, in the Kissimme and Orlando area, there is the Linx Bus System that is fairly inexpensive, and they do have 1-week passes available, the only thing is that they aren't heavily reliable and possibly could not handel the amount of traffic produced by the Championship.

Again, as mentioned earlier in the thread is the Orange County Convention Center. This place is HUGE. I High School, we went on a tour of just part of it, but I have not been able to see the entire place. There is defiantly enough room for the pits, and whatever FIRST wants to do that is convention style but I'm not exactly sure if they have a "stadium" of sorts where the field and spectators could easily view the matches. But, according to google maps, if you search "Orange County Convention Center" and "Hotels" and narrow it down to a "1 mile" radius, it says there are 717 hotels. That number seems a bit outrageous to me but the Orlando area is heavily populated with hotels.

Now, as for "Family Location". Have we looked at Disney Prices lately? They are not exactly family friendly. A base ticket, with expiration costs 79.88 for a one day ticket, and does not include park hopping. I'm sure they offer some sort of deal for large groups, but it probably won't be that much lower.


But hey, there is always the 2009 Florida Regional - and Disney is giving a free ticket to everyone in 2009, as long as it is your birthday.

[M. Mellott]

I know in Indianapolis, the Indianapolis Convention Center was part of the RCA dome. Plenty of hotels were directly connected to the building, and the CC could handle the pits easily (hey, it handled 2 world-wide Star Wars conventions without a problem).

However, now that the Colts have moved to their new stadium next door, I don't know if the new stadium has a similar setup, or what the plan is for the CC at the old RCA dome. Anyone from IN know?

[ttldomination]

atches. But, according to google maps, if you search "Orange County Convention Center" and "Hotels" and narrow it down to a "1 mile" radius, it says there are 717 hotels. That number seems a bit outrageous to me but the Orlando area is heavily populated with hotels.

The Reason I mentioned the Convention center was mainly because of the number of living arrangements. There is also a great entertainment area as I believe International Dr. also is close by and it is pretty great as far as fun goes.

I'm not sure either about an stadium. It would be interesting to see what happens.

[Madison]

Now, as for "Family Location". Have we looked at Disney Prices lately? They are not exactly family friendly. A base ticket, with expiration costs 79.88 for a one day ticket, and does not include park hopping. I'm sure they offer some sort of deal for large groups, but it probably won't be that much lower.

I haven't looked at it in years, but the packages Disney offered to teams were considerably more economical than regular visitors received when all things were considered. They could manage to do quite the same again, I'm sure.

I'm among the coaches that would love a return to Walt Disney World. I am not convinced that Houston or Atlanta offers anything that Disney couldn't compete with. Really, in many ways, it was quite a bit more special.

[Kevin Sevcik]

You could probably host it in Houston again at either Reliant Park, or the George R Brown Convention Center, provided you followed a different event layout/strategy than currently.

Specifically, forget all about the current methodology of having every single playing field in a giant stadium, cramming the divisional fields in as best you can around Einstein. It's ridiculous, since it's physically impossible to acoustically isolate the divisional fields in a space that open. You end up with a cacophony of fields talking over each other, seating that's only on one side of the field and often too far away, and money wasted on an Einstein setup that sits (mostly) unused for 2 days. Not to mention the pit to field walks for robots and spectators attempting to keep track of things.

Instead, go with a true divisional model. Rent out a convention center big enough to house 4 divisions of pits and fields. Put each division's field adjacent to its pit, with rented stadium seating, AV, etc. The fields can be separated enough and intimate enough to keep sound levels down and give the MCs a chance to actually be heard. Plus, walking times are ridiculously short, and you can have seating on either side of a field. When it comes time for the Finals on Einstein, move everyone to a nearby stadium/arena where Einstein has been set up the night before. Everyone always has to do the mass pit exodus for Finals anyways, so I don't think this is terribly different. If necessary, let divisional champs drag half their pit with them. You'll still get an awesome venue for the Finals action, without having to waste the space and equipment rental for it to sit idle for 2 days, plus you get a higher quality divisional experience. Granted, you don't have a convenient gigantic dumping space for superfluous team members, since divisional seating isn't going to have quite the overflow space of a huge stadium... but I think it'd work rather well.

Here's my specific pitch. Divisional competition in George R Brown CC. It should be easily sizable enough for 4 divisions and whatever extra FIRST goodness you want. It's also downtown, with lots of hotels and entertainment, and not any scarier than downtown Atlanta we're already dealing with. Einstein Finals to be held in the Toyota Center, home of the Houston Rockets. It's huge, and FIRST has already shown that basketball arena are a good fit for FRC fields. After party to be held on the Discovery Green Park and/or Level 3 of the George R Brown CC.

You could do something similar with the Reliant Convention Center + Reliant Stadium, but the hotel situation isn't as nice, and Reliant Stadium is HUGE. Much like the Georgia Dome. The advantage of a basketball arena for the finals is that it ends up much much more intimate.

[Michelle Celio]

I haven't looked at it in years, but the packages Disney offered to teams were considerably more economical than regular visitors received when all things were considered. They could manage to do quite the same again, I'm sure.

I'm among the coaches that would love a return to Walt Disney World. I am not convinced that Houston or Atlanta offers anything that Disney couldn't compete with. Really, in many ways, it was quite a bit more special.

I know Disney does offer some amazing deals, but if they offered a "good" discount back in 2002, when a one day, expiration, no park hopping ticket was $48, that's an increase of 66.42%. So even if Disney were to of given teams tickets at $24 (50% off), tickets would now be around $40, 83% of a full price ticket back in 2002.

Either way, if we're not basing having the Championship purely on Florida's tourism industry, I'd love to see it back. (Who wouldn't want a 30 minute drive to the Championship each day and still be able to sleep in your own bed?) But there have been plenty of threads on that matter.

[dtengineering]

Extremely wild idea...

How feasible would it be to have the Championship held in Canada?

About as likely as the World Series being held in Canada or the America's Cup being hosted by Switzerland.

Oh... wait a minute.... :D

I don't think it is likely for the foreseeable future, simply because of the mass of teams and sponsors located in the United States. It makes good economic and environmental sense to locate the Championships near the "centre of mass" of the teams attending. There are also issues surrounding the proximity of pit (convention) space to the stadium (competition) space that you really have to see in order to believe. Vancouver, for instance, does not have an appropriate venue, and I have some doubts that Toronto does, either.

I would never say "never" to this idea, however. FIRST is growing and is a fairly open-minded, forward-thinking organization. Convention centers and stadiums get built and expanded. It is clear that the Championships are no longer referred to as "the nationals" or "the national championships" because of the international nature of the competition. If FIRST continues to diversify internationally then it is inevitable that the Championships will be held outside of the United States.

Just keep in mind that it took a century to get the America's Cup races to Australia, and almost that long to get a World Series to Canada. So be patient, keep a passport up to date, and just be glad that Canadians receive a warmer welcome to the USA than other international travellers who are greeted with the friendly welcome of being fingerprinted like common criminals.

Jason

[Greg Needel]

I think that everyone would like to go, but i heard the tents were the problem. So how do we fix that.

limit the number of people who go to the championship. If you consider the Michigan structure the way FIRST is gonging I think there is no reason the championship has to have almost 400 teams. If you reduced the number of teams to 200ish where you actually had to qualify to attend, Disney might be a realistic option.

Personally I think that atlanta is fine, but many of the new dome stadiums would be good options, Lucas Oil stadium comes to mind, as Indy would be a good place IMO.

[GaryVoshol]

Except that under current rules, approximately 250 teams qualify directly. Plus another 30 or so that pre-qualify - HoF, past winners, etc. To cut it down to 200, you'd have to eliminate some qualifiers, and not allow any "buy-in" teams. That would mean some teams would never get to Champs; the current structure was designed so that every HS student would be eligible to go to Champs sometime in a 4-year FIRST career.

And, in the thread Andy Baker started with old videos, I believe I heard one statement of 74 teams at Disney. That's a far cry from 200.

[qwertyuiop[]\]

Has any one ever been to the DC convention center? If you have you will know that the thing is HUGE. If FIRST were to rent the whole thing out there would definetly be enough space. It also is right on the DC metro, which seemed to boggle a group of tourists i saw trying to go in through the out gate. Did i mention how it would also be in the nations capital? the only downside to having nationals there would be that Dulles(the main airport) is far away, but maybe once the metro is extended to it this will be a plausible site.Also i would wait and see how the DC regional goes this year.

Also, most cities that have hosted the Olympics seem suitable for the championships (ie they have lots of hotels, a big stadium and a transport system of some sort). so maybe there could be one in LA or Chicago(after the 2016 olympics)

[EricH]

\;770022']Also, most cities that have hosted the Olympics seem suitable for the championships (ie they have lots of hotels, a big stadium and a transport system of some sort). so maybe there could be one in LA or Chicago(after the 2016 olympics)L.A. would be very hard. No covered football stadiums. Hotels aren't exactly close...

You might be able to at the current site of the L.A. Regional, but a lot of airlines don't fly into the nearest airport, meaning that you have to add at least an hour's travel time.

The only other option would be Staples Center and the L.A. Convention Center, but the odds of getting the former are slim.

L.A.'s transport system, the Metro, is not exactly convenient.

[IndySam]

I know in Indianapolis, the Indianapolis Convention Center was part of the RCA dome. Plenty of hotels were directly connected to the building, and the CC could handle the pits easily (hey, it handled 2 world-wide Star Wars conventions without a problem).

However, now that the Colts have moved to their new stadium next door, I don't know if the new stadium has a similar setup, or what the plan is for the CC at the old RCA dome. Anyone from IN know?

RCA Dome is being torn down right now and will be replaced by more convention space that will be connected to LOS. Lucas Oil Stadium is much bigger than The Georgia Dome and could almost host the whole thing without the connected convention center.

There are lots of downtown hotels (with more being constructed) within easy walking distance, much closer than in ATL.

After party could be in Military park, big Friday social could be at the Indy Zoo.

Brand new airport terminal served by all major airlines, even some that Atlanta doesn't get (for Southwest lovers like me.) That means constantly cheep flights. In fact many people drive from Cincy to Indy to get the cheaper fairs.

The only thing that Indy is lacking is public transportation from the airport to downtown but that could be overcome.

[GeorgeTheEng]

I love this discussion every time it comes up. And it seems to come up 3 to 4 times per year. There are specific requirements that come up that generally have to be met, but that wasn't the point I wanted to make today.

Are thier places that could compete with Atlanta? Yes. Are those places that offer FIRST a substantial advantage to move? But substantial I mean significant new capabilities, more/better space (at the same cost), the existing capabilities at much lower cost? Given the size of championship and what it takes to put it together, FIRST has invested a lot of social capital in Atlanta. They know the area, they know the service providers, they have relationships with the organizations in the community. From thier standpoint, there is significant risk to move versus maintaining status quo.

Plus you have little thinks that make life easier for those planning the event (and trust me it take a momumental effort to plan that event). It easier to take an existing floor plan and tweak it (say for the pits) then to develop a new one from scratch. Things like that.

A new location could be interesting, but currently I don't see the drivers being strong enough to push FIRST in that direction.

As for Canada... Or anyplace else north of say Chicago... How about someplace where it won't snow during the event? ;)

[Greg Needel]

Are thier places that could compete with Atlanta? Yes. Are those places that offer FIRST a substantial advantage to move? But substantial I mean significant new capabilities, more/better space (at the same cost), the existing capabilities at much lower cost? Given the size of championship and what it takes to put it together, FIRST has invested a lot of social capital in Atlanta. They know the area, they know the service providers, they have relationships with the organizations in the community. From thier standpoint, there is significant risk to move versus maintaining status quo.





Ah yes because FIRST is never willing to put all of the comfort of something good, past relationships to the wind to go for something more expensive and unknown risking their status quo.....cough cough control system cough cough

[Laaba 80]

I also suspect it's not going much if any farther west than Atlanta. Leaving the middle of the country makes it much more difficult for the majority of teams to get there.


Im not sure I understand where you are coming from here. Atlanta isnt even close to the middle of the country. Do you mean the middle of the FIRST community?
Joey

[Rich Kressly]

From my viewpoint, there are two possible ways to look at the future of the championship.

1. Current or similar structure = domed stadium which limits you to only a few places in the country. As far as investing social capital to get this done, Indy seems like the only other viable possibility in the near future to compete with Atlanta.

2. Look differently at the event in terms of number of teams to attend and number/how other FIRST programs are involved. If this is a possibility, I'd love to see an earnest effort made toward Disney again. It was, as Madison said, very special. And, more importantly for me, I sold my wife on FIRST in 2002 based on, "Hey look at it this way. We might have an option to take the kids to Disney every year." Oops, I guess I spoke too fast on that one ;)

[ttldomination]

OR!!!!


WE STAY AT THE GEORGIA DOME!!!!!

[DarkFlame145]

maybe the Sun Dome in Tampa? Or what about the Super Dome in New Orleans, I'm sure they would love the tourism to help rebuild. I went to NO last summer and it was very nice (as long as you kept out of the areas that where hardest hit by Katrina). Sure NO isn't the most HS student friendly city. But it's a pretty city (again as long as you kept away from the hard hit areas, I accidentally drove into the lower 9th and it was really bad).

But also I think that somewhere in Cali would be nice, like MacAfee Stadium (go RAIDERS). Since they always have to come to the east coast.

[The Lucas]

Since this discussion is starting up again, I feel the need to summarize what I gathered from the last one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66475)

In order to hold championship in city we need:

A Domed Football Stadium
A Convention Center next to the stadium

With almost no exceptions to this criteria

And we figured there are only 3 cities met this criteria

Atlanta
Indy
St Louis



Are there any other cities we can think of to add to this list?

[DarkFlame145]

OR the Tundra up in Green Bay, might be a little cold, but if we ever had an ice game it would be perfect =P

[IndySam]

I love this discussion every time it comes up. And it seems to come up 3 to 4 times per year. There are specific requirements that come up that generally have to be met, but that wasn't the point I wanted to make today.

Are thier places that could compete with Atlanta? Yes. Are those places that offer FIRST a substantial advantage to move? But substantial I mean significant new capabilities, more/better space (at the same cost), the existing capabilities at much lower cost? Given the size of championship and what it takes to put it together, FIRST has invested a lot of social capital in Atlanta. They know the area, they know the service providers, they have relationships with the organizations in the community. From thier standpoint, there is significant risk to move versus maintaining status quo.

Plus you have little thinks that make life easier for those planning the event (and trust me it take a momumental effort to plan that event). It easier to take an existing floor plan and tweak it (say for the pits) then to develop a new one from scratch. Things like that.

A new location could be interesting, but currently I don't see the drivers being strong enough to push FIRST in that direction.

As for Canada... Or anyplace else north of say Chicago... How about someplace where it won't snow during the event? ;)

All very good points.

FIRST got a very sweet deal when they moved the championship to ATL but sometimes sweet things can sour, relationships get old and things get taken for granted.

So you start getting a wandering eye looking for a better deal from others. Maybe that deal will be better and pull you away or maybe your current sweetheart will come to their senses and remember why they courted you in the first place.

Either way FIRST wins.

[Madison]

Except that under current rules, approximately 250 teams qualify directly. Plus another 30 or so that pre-qualify - HoF, past winners, etc. To cut it down to 200, you'd have to eliminate some qualifiers, and not allow any "buy-in" teams. That would mean some teams would never get to Champs; the current structure was designed so that every HS student would be eligible to go to Champs sometime in a 4-year FIRST career.

And, in the thread Andy Baker started with old videos, I believe I heard one statement of 74 teams at Disney. That's a far cry from 200.

The 2002 Championship -- the last at Walt Disney World -- hosted nearly as many FRC teams as competed in Atlanta last year. There were five fields and everyone was in the same pit tent. It was not much different in organization -- only in atmosphere.

The challenge -- and certainly not something that cannot be overcome -- is in accomodating the FLL and FTC events that are held concurrently with the FRC Championship. Those programs were not represented in Walt Disney World, to my knowledge. FTC, of course, didn't exist, but FLL may have had a small presence.

[EricH]

Those programs were not represented in Walt Disney World, to my knowledge. FTC, of course, didn't exist, but FLL may have had a small presence.At least in 2000, FLL had a demo area in one of the side tents. That's about it.

The Championship is now bigger, with a full FLL event and full FTC event. I don't foresee returning to tents.

[Cory]

Im not sure I understand where you are coming from here. Atlanta isnt even close to the middle of the country. Do you mean the middle of the FIRST community?
Joey

I mean the vertical corridor you would make if you drew a vertical line on the western border of Illinois and a corresponding line through Atlanta. So no, not the actual middle of the country, but portions of the midwest/south. Essentially the "middle" of the FIRST population. Anything west of that eliminates the ability of most teams to be able to drive to the event. Someone did a breakdown and right now a very large percentage of teams are within 10 hours driving distance, or something like that.

But also I think that somewhere in Cali would be nice, like MacAfee Stadium (go RAIDERS). Since they always have to come to the east coast.

I can't think of a WORSE place for the event. Oakland is a terrible city. It's crime riddled, and has zero infrastructure needed to host the Championship

[qwertyuiop[]\]

just throwing this out there:

FIRST should invest a whole bunch of money and build their own megacomplex that doubles as a FIRST college for people who want to be engineers or scientists.

[David Brinza]

Since this discussion is starting up again, I feel the need to summarize what I gathered from the last one (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66475)

In order to hold championship in city we need:

A Domed Football Stadium
A Convention Center next to the stadium

With almost no exceptions to this criteria

And we figured there are only 3 cities met this criteria

Atlanta
Indy
St Louis



Are there any other cities we can think of to add to this list?

Those three cities have venues that meet the criteria that has been discussed in CD for a few years. I personally prefer St. Louis because it is geographically more central than Atlanta.

The relatively new (opened fall 2006) University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, AZ is the only domed football stadium in the West. It has enough internal space for pits (no need for convention center adjacent to stadium). There are a few motels within a mile away, with more likely to be built in the next couple of years. Yet, I don't think Arizona is a realistic venue. It's too far away for the eastern teams and FIRST definitely has deep roots in the east. (We west coast teams just love the three-hour time difference and five-hour flights endured for the Championship in Atlanta).;)

[DarkFlame145]

I can't think of a WORSE place for the event. Oakland is a terrible city. It's crime riddled, and has zero infrastructure needed to host the Championship


MacAfee field is closer to San Fransisco and Oakland has really cleaned up, not to say there aren't bad areas. But MacAfee is right off the freeway outside of San Fransisco. It was more of a joke idea anyways, cause I'm a Raiders fan.

[Richard Wallace]

... I personally prefer St. Louis because ...:D
Reality Right Now:
The St. Louis Regional has a new venue (http://thechaifetzarena.com/) for 2009. It is located in the city of St. Louis on the campus of St. Louis University.

Dream For The Future:
A FIRST Championship event in St. Louis would be cool. There are a bunch of hotels and restaurants, the City Museum, the Cardinals, the Arch, and several other entertainment options all within an easy walk of the Dome/Convention center.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Ah yes because FIRST is never willing to put all of the comfort of something good, past relationships to the wind to go for something more expensive and unknown risking their status quo.....cough cough control system cough cough

Hmmm ... Sour grapes? or just upset because they've taken you out of your comfort zone?

Now if you have some constructive criticism (and not just criticism) we'll be glad to hear it and discuss it.

Back on topic: Both Indy and St.Louis would be good alternatives to Atlanta, but, to be honest, unless there is a compelling reason to leave Atlanta, why would FIRST leave?

[EricH]

Hmmm ... Sour grapes? or just upset because they've taken you out of your comfort zone?

Now if you have some constructive criticism (and not just criticism) we'll be glad to hear it and discuss it.I think Greg just forgot his sarcasm tags.

[Karthik]

Vancouver, for instance, does not have an appropriate venue, and I have some doubts that Toronto does, either.


The combination of the Skydome (http://www.rogerscentre.com/) and the Metro Toronto Convention Centre (http://www.mtccc.com/home.cfm) probably could do the trick if the right spaces were rented and configured properly. I was at the MTCC for a conference this spring with Simbotics, and I took some time to walk through the venue to see if it could actually work for the Champonship. Previously, I was as skeptical as Jason was, but after looking around I think it could happen.

Sure there are plenty of obstacles keeping this from happening, but I do think it's in the realm of possibilities.

/Aside

Hmmm ... Sour grapes? or just upset because they've taken you out of your comfort zone?

Now if you have some constructive criticism (and not just criticism) we'll be glad to hear it and discuss it.

I think the point of the post was to show that FIRST has been known to abandon their comfort zone to undertake new ventures. You may not want to hear Greg's point, but telling him not voice it because you don't like isn't helping anyone.

[ATannahill]

maybe the Sun Dome in Tampa?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!

The USF Sun Dome is the location of TNT and the local schools' graduation, and it fits that, but for 400 teams you can't even fit the pits in there. The one at UCF (still the Sun Dome) is the location of the FL regional, and again it is fit for that, and maybe the pits for the Championship, but not the whole event.

[DarkFlame145]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!

The USF Sun Dome is the location of TNT and the local schools' graduation, and it fits that, but for 400 teams you can't even fit the pits in there. The one at UCF (still the Sun Dome) is the location of the FL regional, and again it is fit for that, and maybe the pits for the Championship, but not the whole event.

just throwing it in there cause it's close to me =P

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I think the point of the post was to show that FIRST has been known to abandon their comfort zone to undertake new ventures. You may not want to hear Greg's point, but telling him not voice it because you don't like isn't helping anyone.

I think the tone of my post came off wrong, and I apologise.

I am the last person who would want to quiet anyones voice. My post was meant as an appeal to keep criticism to constructive criticism. It is easy to point out all that is (precieved as) wrong in the world, but very difficult to come up with the proper answers.

All I ask is that when you criticise, please do so with a constructive alternative.

[Herodotus]

Mars.

...


Anyone? Oh well, maybe we'll have to shoot for that in 2011.

Really though, I think Atlanta seems like the perfect setup for the Championship. The only way it could get better is if maybe someone built a FIRST Dome somewhere *nudge nudge, hint hint, wink wink*

[David Brinza]

The combination of the Skydome (http://www.rogerscentre.com/) and the Metro Toronto Convention Centre (http://www.mtccc.com/home.cfm) probably could do the trick if the right spaces were rented and configured properly. I was at the MTCC for a conference this spring with Simbotics, and I took some time to walk through the venue to see if it could actually work for the Champonship. Previously, I was as skeptical as Jason was, but after looking around I think it could happen.

Sure there are plenty of obstacles keeping this from happening, but I do think it's in the realm of possibilities.

/Aside



I think the point of the post was to show that FIRST has been known to abandon their comfort zone to undertake new ventures. You may not want to hear Greg's point, but telling him not voice it because you don't like isn't helping anyone.

Maybe with another decade or two of global warming, Toronto might be a great place for the Championship.:rolleyes: The possibility of a major snow storm impacting the event needs to be considered. We were fortunate that the freak tornado didn't take down last year's event in Atlanta.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Being from the Greater Orlando Area, I can try to put a perspective on this.

There are two venues in the state of Florida, in the Orlando area, that could possibly be able to house the Championship.

There is one venue in the Kissimmee, The Silver Spurs Arena, that would be perfect, it would have less of a walk from the pits to the fields but we run into a lack of hotels for the teams in that area. However, as previously mentioned in the thread, when the consideration about hosting it in TX came up, we run into the same problem. Which is the lack of hotels. But, in the Kissimme and Orlando area, there is the Linx Bus System that is fairly inexpensive, and they do have 1-week passes available, the only thing is that they aren't heavily reliable and possibly could not handel the amount of traffic produced by the Championship.

Again, as mentioned earlier in the thread is the Orange County Convention Center. This place is HUGE. I High School, we went on a tour of just part of it, but I have not been able to see the entire place. There is defiantly enough room for the pits, and whatever FIRST wants to do that is convention style but I'm not exactly sure if they have a "stadium" of sorts where the field and spectators could easily view the matches. But, according to google maps, if you search "Orange County Convention Center" and "Hotels" and narrow it down to a "1 mile" radius, it says there are 717 hotels. That number seems a bit outrageous to me but the Orlando area is heavily populated with hotels.

Now, as for "Family Location". Have we looked at Disney Prices lately? They are not exactly family friendly. A base ticket, with expiration costs 79.88 for a one day ticket, and does not include park hopping. I'm sure they offer some sort of deal for large groups, but it probably won't be that much lower.


But hey, there is always the 2009 Florida Regional - and Disney is giving a free ticket to everyone in 2009, as long as it is your birthday.

lol, Michelle, the Silver Spurs Rodio is right across the Osceola Herritage Park complex right? you could probally fit the pitts there

I ride the LYNX bus system to work and school EVERYDAY (my eyesight doesn't allow me to drive and i got a free bus pass) and believe me, their nowhere near reliable.

If the Greater orlando area was to get a commuter rail. then it would be possible.

I think Universal could pull off the event as well. the have enough space to pull off the event. plus I-Drive is near by, and if im correct. UCF students get 50% off.... many other wasy to get discounts at Universal, many more than disney...plus, i think it's a more grown-up place than disney...but thats a local's opinion.

maybe the Sun Dome in Tampa? Or what about the Super Dome in New Orleans, I'm sure they would love the tourism to help rebuild. I went to NO last summer and it was very nice (as long as you kept out of the areas that where hardest hit by Katrina). Sure NO isn't the most HS student friendly city. But it's a pretty city (again as long as you kept away from the hard hit areas, I accidentally drove into the lower 9th and it was really bad).

But also I think that somewhere in Cali would be nice, like MacAfee Stadium (go RAIDERS). Since they always have to come to the east coast.

the Sun Dome???? i honestly don't really think thats a good idea

OR the Tundra up in Green Bay, might be a little cold, but if we ever had an ice game it would be perfect =P

I would <3 that. but then again, it's outside and most likely impossible to pull off by putting a sheet over the open stadium, lol

The combination of the Skydome (http://www.rogerscentre.com/) and the Metro Toronto Convention Centre (http://www.mtccc.com/home.cfm) probably could do the trick if the right spaces were rented and configured properly. I was at the MTCC for a conference this spring with Simbotics, and I took some time to walk through the venue to see if it could actually work for the Champonship. Previously, I was as skeptical as Jason was, but after looking around I think it could happen.

Sure there are plenty of obstacles keeping this from happening, but I do think it's in the realm of possibilities.

/Aside



I think the point of the post was to show that FIRST has been known to abandon their comfort zone to undertake new ventures. You may not want to hear Greg's point, but telling him not voice it because you don't like isn't helping anyone.

that seems like a fun idea. Karthik you would know this better than i do, is there any good sports venue near the TIC? it's near the airport and the Paramount Theme Park place and has a bunch of hotels nearby. It's big enough to have the pits and everything there. (not sure how much it's expanded since 2005, thats the last time i was in Toronto... desperately want to go back)

[GaryVoshol]

Mars.
That sure would make it easy to stay within the weight limit.

[Karthik]

that seems like a fun idea. Karthik you would know this better than i do, is there any good sports venue near the TIC? it's near the airport and the Paramount Theme Park place and has a bunch of hotels nearby.

I've never heard of the "TIC". If you meant the Toronto Congress Centre (http://www.torontocongresscentre.com/default.aspx), it's not really a good fit. The Toronto Congress Centre is close to the Airport, and nothing else. There's currently no real public transit in the area, and you're a good 20 minute drive from all the tourist destinations that make Toronto so appealing. The theme park, Canada's Wonderland, is actually not close at all being located two cities away in Vaughn (About a 20 km drive). As for sports venues, the area is severely lacking.

If the dream of a Toronto Championship is to happen, it would have to be downtown.

[AmyPrib]

I mean the vertical corridor you would make if you drew a vertical line on the western border of Illinois and a corresponding line through Atlanta. So no, not the actual middle of the country, but portions of the midwest/south. Essentially the "middle" of the FIRST population. Anything west of that eliminates the ability of most teams to be able to drive to the event. Someone did a breakdown and right now a very large percentage of teams are within 10 hours driving distance, or something like that.



I did the breakdown a few years ago, and it was a breakdown for driving distance to Indy, not atlanta. I took all the teams that attended Atlanta that year and figured out how far they would have been from Indy had it been there. A huge percentage of them would have been able to drive within 10hrs of Indy, whereas it was much longer or flying to Atlanta. It was merely to show Indy as a more "central" location to a higher population of teams who could potentially reduce traveling costs/times.

[nuggetsyl]

Universal studios in Orlando can handle us and there more teen friendly. I have been In there sound stages, there def. big enough.

[Alan Anderson]

...sound stages...

That's an idea I haven't heard before. Way to think outside the box!

Instead of looking for roofed stadiums for the fields with nearby convention space for pits, look for idle movie studio space. The stands would have to be brought in for the event, but Disney managed that fine for years.

[dangerousdave]

Atlanta has been scheduled for the Championship event in 2010 Apr 14-17 (http://www.gwcc.com/calendar/gwcc.html) at least as far back as April, 2008.

There have been several (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37700&page=9) other threads on this discussion (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66475) in the past few years.

[nuggetsyl]

I just do not get it. Why would first make another deal to put teams in a place they do not want to be? :confused:

[BobC]

[QUOTE=dtengineering;770012]About as likely as the World Series being held in Canada or the America's Cup being hosted by Switzerland.

Lets go BLUE JAYS winner of back to back World Series held in Toronto.

[Joe Matt]

Mark my words...

Indianapolis, IN

[dodar]

Being from the Greater Orlando Area, I can try to put a perspective on this.

There are two venues in the state of Florida, in the Orlando area, that could possibly be able to house the Championship.

There is one venue in the Kissimmee, The Silver Spurs Arena, that would be perfect, it would have less of a walk from the pits to the fields but we run into a lack of hotels for the teams in that area. However, as previously mentioned in the thread, when the consideration about hosting it in TX came up, we run into the same problem. Which is the lack of hotels. But, in the Kissimme and Orlando area, there is the Linx Bus System that is fairly inexpensive, and they do have 1-week passes available, the only thing is that they aren't heavily reliable and possibly could not handel the amount of traffic produced by the Championship.

Again, as mentioned earlier in the thread is the Orange County Convention Center. This place is HUGE. I High School, we went on a tour of just part of it, but I have not been able to see the entire place. There is defiantly enough room for the pits, and whatever FIRST wants to do that is convention style but I'm not exactly sure if they have a "stadium" of sorts where the field and spectators could easily view the matches. But, according to google maps, if you search "Orange County Convention Center" and "Hotels" and narrow it down to a "1 mile" radius, it says there are 717 hotels. That number seems a bit outrageous to me but the Orlando area is heavily populated with hotels.

Now, as for "Family Location". Have we looked at Disney Prices lately? They are not exactly family friendly. A base ticket, with expiration costs 79.88 for a one day ticket, and does not include park hopping. I'm sure they offer some sort of deal for large groups, but it probably won't be that much lower.


But hey, there is always the 2009 Florida Regional - and Disney is giving a free ticket to everyone in 2009, as long as it is your birthday.

OMG! having it at the Orange County Convention Center would be beautiful and like she said i is GIGANTIC!!!
i mean this place is massive!

[Akash Rastogi]

Joesey yo!


kidding aside, I'd love to have it in Indiana. Its like the heartland of FIRST.

[Richard Wallace]

Mark my words... Indianapolis, INMark? As in AndyMark? You mean the Mark who has designed more cool stuff and logged more FTA hours than anyone else? The one who is now retired from Delphi, so he can spend even more time making the stuff that makes FIRST work? OK, I agree -- making more effective use of that Mark would be an excellent reason for FIRST to move the Championship to Indy!

[IndySam]

I just do not get it. Why would first make another deal to put teams in a place they do not want to be? :confused:

Well I have never heard anyone say they didn't want to go to Atlanta they just would like to try another place.

The option was up, there was nothing immediately in the works, it made sense for them to sign. Until FIRST issues an official request for proposals, don't expect much to change.

[waialua359]

Someone should do a calculation on what exact location would be the LEAST amount of total travel distance for ALL the teams participating this year at Championship. I'd bet its somewhere near Indy.
If we can get about 1000 asian teams to participate, then maybe it would move to Hawaii. :D

[colin340]

Toronto would be perfect customs would not be fun

and seeing as most teams walk form there hotel to the event and then to dinner if it was cold it would really not be fun

[Madison]

Well I have never heard anyone say they didn't want to go to Atlanta they just would like to try another place.

The option was up, there was nothing immediately in the works, it made sense for them to sign. Until FIRST issues an official request for proposals, don't expect much to change.

I don't want to go to Atlanta. My team doesn't want to go, either.

[Wayne C.]

kidding aside, I'd love to have it in Indiana. Its like the heartland of FIRST.


wow- a trip to Indy in April -late spring snowstorms, cold, rain- what a treat

I'd prefer Orlando where we used to have it. It was warm, nice and kid oriented.

[yodameister]

If weather is to be a concern; Anaheim, Phoenix, Orlando, New Orleans, Dallas/Houston could be possible options as some have mentioned in this post or others.

And as a side note, I would prefer not to go to Atlanta.

[IndySam]

wow- a trip to Indy in April -late spring snowstorms, cold, rain- what a treat

I'd prefer Orlando where we used to have it. It was warm, nice and kid oriented.
It's Indy not Minneapolis.

[Zflash]

Weather should be a concern. As far as location I love Atlanta, however I admit bias we are only a few hours drive away. However I can comment on the three venues that I have attended the Championships. Epcot Center parking lot was great. It was held in air condidtioned tents that were close to pits and a large outdoor space that was open to the weather for the Einstien field. There were plenty of ways to get there bus, monorail or car. Houston Texas was the second one I attended. And I went by bus with the team. In my opinion it was held there only one year because it was very unsafe to load the pit area. They had an extremly long and steep ramp that led down to the floor of the pits. Not to mention the walk between the pits and the stadium for robots was a series of winding uphill ramps that were difficult to navigate going both ways. Getting there by bus or car was easy too. And Atlanta which everyone knows but not everyone loves. Atlanta is great except for the traffic it has plenty of room for the teams and is an easy walk between field and pits. Not to mention it is inside as well. Between the three I would like to see them pull off a Epcot Center type deal again or get a venue that is "Atlantaesque."

[Joe Matt]

wow- a trip to Indy in April -late spring snowstorms, cold, rain- what a treat

I'd prefer Orlando where we used to have it. It was warm, nice and kid oriented.

FIRST needs to grow a pair and play hardball with the hurting Disney right now and get some good rates for their rooms. Bookings are down year over year, who wouldn't want about ten THOUSAND people guaranteed in rooms for about a week that will buy park admission, eat, and buy stuff?

I say Indy though becase they are courting FIRST, and knowing FIRST's somewhat passive nature, they will go with them. I was in Indy this past summer for GAC and had lots of fun. There is a great shopping area, a GameWorks, several large hotels, lots of cheap/well priced food, and for those my age, bars.

I have a good feeling FIRST will not be going back to Atlanta mainly due to the crime in the area. My sister saw a guy get shot in Centenial Park.

[Zflash]

1319 has to traveled to Indiana for the Boilermaker regional twice. The people running that event were great. Indiana was great and if there is an "Atlantaesque" venue then I am sure 1319 would attend if possible. As far as crime goes sadly that is everywhere and I don't think FIRST can do much about that. Other then keeping the youngens off the street building robots!

[waialua359]

I think if it was up to the students, they would pick Orlando/Disney World in a heartbeat! ;)

[Cory]

FIRST needs to grow a pair and play hardball with the hurting Disney right now and get some good rates for their rooms. Bookings are down year over year, who wouldn't want about ten THOUSAND people guaranteed in rooms for about a week that will buy park admission, eat, and buy stuff?

I say Indy though becase they are courting FIRST, and knowing FIRST's somewhat passive nature, they will go with them. I was in Indy this past summer for GAC and had lots of fun. There is a great shopping area, a GameWorks, several large hotels, lots of cheap/well priced food, and for those my age, bars.

I have a good feeling FIRST will not be going back to Atlanta mainly due to the crime in the area. My sister saw a guy get shot in Centenial Park.

Rooms don't matter if there's no venue. I don't see FIRST shelling out to erect another tent city when they now need to include a massive number of FLL and FTC teams. Back in 2002 I remember the lego league area being like a small corner of one tent. Now it's huge. FTC is equally large.

I think Atlanta is a great venue, but the city leaves a lot to be desired. There's not really anything for the kids to do after the event, as everything closes early (the mall, the CNN center, etc) I've never had the concerns about safety that other people have. I've never felt any less safe in Atlanta than I have in San Francisco, San Jose, New York, LA, or any other major city.

The problem is Disney was too perfect for the teams. If we had never gone to Disney and we had been in Atlanta all this time, we probably wouldn't be enjoying it any more than we do now, but we wouldn't have anything better to compare it to.

[Joe Matt]

Rooms don't matter if there's no venue. I don't see FIRST shelling out to erect another tent city when they now need to include a massive number of FLL and FTC teams.

Before my post was erased accidentally before posting, I mentioned this little ditty (http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/moreMagic/moreMagicGolfLanding?id=WideWorldOfSportsLandingPa ge&bhcp=1) as a solution to that.

[mikecombes]

San diego chargers stadium. would be awsome to go there and see their team lol. (san diego fan so yea)

[synth3tk]

I know this thread is for mentioning serious suggestions (whether FIRST sees them or not) but I'd like to throw Cleveland in.

Only issue we would have is weather. It's very unpredictable. Otherwise, it's no less an option than some of the others posted here, sans Disney. You can't beat Disney.

We just had a $200-million renovation of a major street (http://www.rtahealthline.com) (Euclid Avenue), including downtown Cleveland itself. We've got the Cleveland Convention Center, with multiple hotels (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&abauth=6539dab%3AWY8OKRBabcj-TAj6IWdOtE32iak&view=text&q=hotels+in+cleveland%2C+oh&btnG=Search+Maps) in the immediate area, some within walking distance, others on the public transportation (http://www.riderta.com/) route.

It's near the lake, has a large indoor shopping center (http://www.towercitycenter.com/) (in walking distance), Gund Arena (I refuse to change!), Jacob's Field (Never!), the Brown's Stadium (nobody wants to touch it, lol), AND, The Great Lakes Science Center.

Actually, after typing this up, it doesn't seem like that bad of an idea...

[hallk]

I'm a bag fan of having it at Indy. Just look at all the spectators that IRI draws. I think more teams would be able to come and watch even if they cn't compete in the Championship. Plus Indy doesn't have as big of a homeless problem as Atlanta.

[nuggetsyl]

I know the cd world lives and dies in the midwest. But the champs in indy is a bad idea. Plane tickets alone would be 4 times what they are now. In fact there would not be enough seats on planes to get teams to indy for the champs. example are for flights on 15th wed apr 2009 nonstop flights

from and to- total seat for the day

ewr to ind 314
ewr to mco 1537 from cal 750 from jet blue
ewr to alt 744 for cal 1754 from delta 685 from airtran

If first went to indy then unless you drove you are not going to champs. I have been working in the airline industry for 8 year now there are not enough seats.

[IndySam]

I know the cd world lives and dies in the midwest. But the champs in indy is a bad idea. Plane tickets alone would be 4 times what they are now. In fact there would not be enough seats on planes to get teams to indy for the champs. example are for flights on 15th wed apr 2009 nonstop flights

from and to- total seat for the day

ewr to ind 314
ewr to mco 1537 from cal 750 from jet blue
ewr to alt 744 for cal 1754 from delta 685 from airtran

If first went to indy then unless you drove you are not going to champs. I have been working in the airline industry for 8 year now there are not enough seats.

These numbers only reflect non-stop flights. We host many conventions several times larger than FIRST every year. We just had 50,000 FFA kids in town.

[Andy Baker]

I know the cd world lives and dies in the midwest. But the champs in indy is a bad idea. Plane tickets alone would be 4 times what they are now. In fact there would not be enough seats on planes to get teams to indy for the champs. example are for flights on 15th wed apr 2009 nonstop flights

from and to- total seat for the day

ewr to ind 314
ewr to mco 1537 from cal 750 from jet blue
ewr to alt 744 for cal 1754 from delta 685 from airtran

If first went to indy then unless you drove you are not going to champs. I have been working in the airline industry for 8 year now there are not enough seats.

Keep trying to knock down Indianapolis, Sean, but your flight costs are simply NOT TRUE.

I fly out of Indy often and get reasonable rates. Within the past year, I have had these rates:

Indy to Manchester, round trip (1 layover): $180
Indy to Miami, round trip (1 layover): $190
Indy to Vegas, round trip (direct): $200

Also, if anyone flies in and out of Indy now, they will notice a brand new airport. Not a remodeled airport... a new airport that just opened last week.

Indy hosts the NCAA final four every 3-4 years.
Indy hosts the largest single-day sporting event in the world each year (Indy 500, where 300,000 people attend).
Indy will host the NFL Super Bowl in 2012.

If the passenger volumes of incoming and outgoing flights from IND can handle those events, they can handle the FIRST Championships.

Andy B.

[Madison]

Keep trying to knock down Indianapolis, Sean, but your flight costs are simply NOT TRUE.

I fly out of Indy often and get reasonable rates. Within the past year, I have had these rates:

Indy to Manchester, round trip (1 layover): $180
Indy to Miami, round trip (1 layover): $190
Indy to Vegas, round trip (direct): $200

Also, if anyone flies in and out of Indy now, they will notice a brand new airport. Not a remodeled airport... a new airport that just opened last week.

Indy hosts the NCAA final four every 3-4 years.
Indy hosts the largest single-day sporting event in the world each year (Indy 500, where 300,000 people attend).
Indy will host the NFL Super Bowl in 2012.

If the passenger volumes of incoming and outgoing flights from IND can handle those events, they can handle the FIRST Championships.

Andy B.

Andy, Sean's numbers aren't airfare, but the number of seats available flying to Indianapolis on direct flights from the cities he listed. There might be some confusion there.

For what it's worth to others, EWR is Newark (or Liberty...) International Airport and MCO is McCoy Orlando International Airport.

[IndySam]

Andy, Sean's numbers aren't airfare, but the number of seats available flying to Indianapolis on direct flights from the cities he listed. There might be some confusion there.

For what it's worth to others, EWR is Newark (or Liberty...) International Airport and MCO is McCoy Orlando International Airport.

Yes, but he also said plane tickets alone would be 4 times as much which is absolutely not true.

[Madison]

Yes, but he also said plane tickets alone would be 4 times as much which is absolutely not true.

Ah, didn't see that. From Seattle, flights to Indianapolis, though the they require a layover in most cases, are significantly cheaper than flights to Atlanta. I don't really understand why.

[IndySam]

Ah, didn't see that. From Seattle, flights to Indianapolis, though the they require a layover in most cases, are significantly cheaper than flights to Atlanta. I don't really understand why.

Indy is not a major hub for any airline, so no one airline dominates our market. All the majors fly here so there is maximum competition.

[Wayne C.]

Guys we can suggest all we wish but the fact is that FIRST finds Atlanta suitable and convenient and I have heard no inklings of them having the desire to move anywhere else. They have a set procedure with Atlanta, they know all the logistical issues and frankly, I doubt if the management really cares what we want as long at the event comes off smoothly.

Has anyone checked the Georgia Dome booking calendar to see if 2010 is already booked?

Anyone who experienced FIRST at Disney Epcot will tell you that that was THE place to hold it. The reasons are too numerous to go into. I dont accept the "we outgrew it" excuse- the numbers just dont add up. There are other issues that led us away from there we are not privvy to I'm sure. If FIRST and Disney really wanted us there a way would be found to hold the event.

But for now Atlanta is convenient and an easier arrangement. So we live with it. At least it is relatively warm in Atlanta in April.

WC
:cool:


Addendum: the FIRST Championships will be held in Atlanta 04/14/10 - 04/17/10 as stated in the GWCC calendar. See you there.....?

[JVN]

Anyone who experienced FIRST at Disney Epcot will tell you that that was THE place to hold it.


This is one of those blanket statements that lots of people make, and everyone seems to accept it. As though everyone who ever attended Nationals at Disney prefers it to Championship in Atlanta.

I personally prefer Atlanta to Disney, and I know I'm not the only one. Maybe YOU prefer Disney, but please stop speaking for the rest of us...

-John

[nuggetsyl]

Keep trying to knock down Indianapolis, Sean, but your flight costs are simply NOT TRUE.

I fly out of Indy often and get reasonable rates. Within the past year, I have had these rates:

Indy to Manchester, round trip (1 layover): $180
Indy to Miami, round trip (1 layover): $190
Indy to Vegas, round trip (direct): $200

Also, if anyone flies in and out of Indy now, they will notice a brand new airport. Not a remodeled airport... a new airport that just opened last week.

Indy hosts the NCAA final four every 3-4 years.
Indy hosts the largest single-day sporting event in the world each year (Indy 500, where 300,000 people attend).
Indy will host the NFL Super Bowl in 2012.

If the passenger volumes of incoming and outgoing flights from IND can handle those events, they can handle the FIRST Championships.

Andy B.

This is a simple supply and demand issue. When you have huge events like the super bowl airlines add extra seats(bigger planes or more planes), airlines are not going to do this for first. 3 teams signing up from NJ would take half the seats off the market. Ticket prices would then rise easily $600-$800 a seat. Buying a single ticket from orbitz is not factoring in the demand of a first event.

[Andy Baker]

I personally prefer Atlanta to Disney, and I know I'm not the only one. Maybe YOU prefer Disney, but please stop speaking for the rest of us...

-John

I agree. I would rather compete in a world class facility as opposed to be placed in a make-shift temporary structure in a parking lot... even if it is at WDW.

Andy B.

[Wayne C.]

This is one of those blanket statements that lots of people make, and everyone seems to accept it. As though everyone who ever attended Nationals at Disney prefers it to Championship in Atlanta.

I personally prefer Atlanta to Disney, and I know I'm not the only one. Maybe YOU prefer Disney, but please stop speaking for the rest of us...

-John

OK JV- sorry to ruffle your feathers but I just reflect the opinion of MANY folks I have talked to over the years. To each his own. I am not your spokesperson but I have NEVER heard another person tell me that they prefer Atlanta over Disney until now. Maybe I'm just not in touch?

[Richard Wallace]

I agree. I would rather compete in a world class facility as opposed to be placed in a make-shift temporary structure in a parking lot... even if it is at WDW.

Andy B.The tent that was used as a pit area, in a parking lot at Epcot in 1996, was not much fun. One kid in the group I was leading that year needed EMT attention for heat exhaustion.

I'd vote for Indy (or St. Louis :) ) if the Championship needs to move, but I think Atlanta is an excellent home if it can stay there.

[Alan Anderson]

OK JV- sorry to ruffle your feathers but I just reflect the opinion of MANY folks I have talked to over the years. To each his own. I am not your spokesperson but I have NEVER heard another person tell me that they prefer Atlanta over Disney until now. Maybe I'm just not in touch?

Disclaimer: I never attended Nationals at Disney with a team. I stopped by on Saturday in 2002 after most of the teams had started packing up, so I didn't get anything like the experience they did. However, I did see what the location was like.

For a few days' vacation, Disney World probably wins over Atlanta. For a relatively small FRC event, it might even be preferred. But for a FIRST world championship with hundreds of FRC teams and all the FLL and FTC and conferences and everything? The outdoor stands and open stage and tents in the EPCOT parking lot don't hold a candle to the Georgia Dome and the Georgia World Congress Center. It's possible that the inconveniences of Houston in comparison might be giving some people a better memory of Disney than it really deserves.

[OZ_341]

I have enjoyed my times in Atlanta and Houston, but there is nothing that compares to sitting in the stadium at Disney on a beautiful clear Friday morning waiting for the start of the opening ceremony. It just felt special to be there.
I don't really expect people to understand, unless they have been there, but there is no better location on the planet for the Championship.

It was truly a special time to be a part of FIRST.

[Jessica Boucher]

For my money and vacation time, I require a mean temperature threshold of 60 degrees. The rest can be worked with.

Moving CMP to a cold-weather location in April will just mean skipping CMP and going somewhere that is competitive and does meet that threshold - Florida and Silicon Valley have done nicely in filling this void for many frozen New Englanders. CMP is nice, but not the be-all end-all.

[JaneYoung]

It will be interesting as FIRST develops and grows down through time, say 10 years from now, 20 years from now - how changes will impact locations, memories, and dreams. With the promise of FIRST developing teams in New Zealand, that would be a dream of mine, personally. It isn't realistic in 2008 but nothing like a long-range dream to put a smile on the face.

We can look forward and we can look back. We can look sideways and we can look up. And we can do this together, as community. The importance of having the FIRST events together to celebrate their accomplishments each year and to spend time together with teams all over the world, is no small thing. It is a competition event/venue - yes, and it is also a celebration. Possibilities for dreaming and for working towards realistic goals are part of the make-up of a FIRST team. That can be expanded into FIRST communities working to find ways to host regionals or even the Championship, if the possibilities arise. When we hold on to our own preconceived notions and biases too tightly, we can stifle growth and development. That isn't always necessary or healthy.

[waialua359]

Wherever the locations in the future might be, we all know it will be based on:
1. Cost for FIRST
2. Venue size and how it can accomodate having the event
3. Cost for teams to attend

Its too bad, no matter where it is held, #3 for us is the killer.
I've never been to Houston, but did go to DisneyWorld and Atlanta.
If you ask me, either place is fine. Both have pros and cons as to why we should or shouldn't have it there.
But if you ask my students, they choose DisneyWorld hands down.
Ultimately for our team, our students have a big say in where we attend. Its not about me, its about the team. Personally, a nice air-conditioned building and nice hotel to rest after the day is over, is good enough for me. :D

[Gary Fields]

Having been involved with FIRST since the early days, and having survived all the CMP venues, Disney is still the best experience.

One of the things that I have noticed since we left Disney is how rushed things are today. At Disney teams and FIRST staff all planned on spending at least an extra day enjoying everything that Disney has to offer. A lot of friendships were made and built upon at the pool at various Disney hotels. One of my best memories of FIRST was being at the restaurant at Disney's Wilderness Lodge and watching some FIRST Directors (Snowman & Bob) riding around the restaurant on broomstick horses, yelping like children, and waving kid's sized cowboy hats.

We all have our memories of each venue, both good and bad. But the excitement of having the CMP at Disney (IMHO) is not the same as it is today.

And I have to agree with Jessica, it needs to be warm for all us Yankee's!

[Jim E]

I like the thought of the:
Orlando Convention Center
New Orleans Convention Center and Super Dome
Indianapolis (a bit cold in April though and chance of late-season blizzard)
Atlanta World Conference Center.
Kansas City has a pretty large convention center too. (25 years ago...)

Someone should start a poll....

[Burmeister #279]

So i've never been to EPCOT, nor WDW, nor any other FIRST event minus championships and GLR last year, so i'd like to throw the idea of FIRST building their own place. in order to not have to rebuild it in less than 5 years, it would not just have to contain the 400+ FRC teams, FLL teams and FTC teams, but it would [eventually][probably] have to contain 750 teams at some point at least and most likely 3 or 4 times the number of FLL/FTC. the only way to not have this massive number of teams would be to completely reorganize the regional structure, and any changes in that [as i believe Andy said] would mean there would be MANY MANY teams that never go to atlanta. there are some that haven't been now but they have more opportunities to go than if the team limit is strictly 400 while the number of teams has grown [this year alone] by 600 [if i remember correctly]. FIRST is supposed to be about learning/education and not about going to championships... but how are you going to keep companies funding and students/mentors interested if they don't even get a snowball's chance in Equador of an opportunity to go? For now, Atlanta is fine. but always think of the future

[waialua359]

I just wanted to add and emphasize that cost for teams are so important, especially since its involves 10 countries now.
I still havent booked our trip to Atlanta yet as we are waiting for the cost to drop from the 1000+ per person I am being quoted now. Multiply that by 30 people and you get some serious fundraising and sponsorship that needs to happen. Last year, we paid 700 per person.
Not an airlines expert, but whatever the logistics or events that need to take place in order to get a cheaper fair, we are all for it, versus where it is held.

[synth3tk]

A lot would be involved in getting their own place, along with what to do with the building/area for the other 360+ days of the year.

They'd need to be near a major airport. Near loads of hotels. Major public transportation available. And I'm sure most teams would prefer something fun/exciting in the area to do in between off days.

But I would love to see them [eventually] have their own place. Maybe that could enable them to host other things throughout the year or something.

And before somebody shoots down the idea, who would've thought that FIRST would be as big as it is now?

[Richard Wallace]

... who would've thought that FIRST would be as big as it is now?Dean Kamen, for one. The man thinks big. Very likely, he expected FIRST would be bigger by now. He's made it clear that he expects FIRST to spread to every high school.

[Libby K]

who would've thought that FIRST would be as big as it is now?

I always knew it would be, but it still amazes me.
:)

[synth3tk]

lol, I stand corrected....

[ttldomination]

IDk, I like Atlanta, it's nice and easy down here. But I wouldn't mind having it somewhere out west.

[Dan2081]

2 Words...
Peoria, Illinois

[Stu Bloom]

2 Words...
Peoria, Illinois

WOW Dan ... have you ever been to the Championships? I know Peoria pretty well and there's no way Peoria could handle it ;) .

But seriously ... Indianapolis almost had it when the last contract was renewed with Atlanta. I say come back and look at Indy again - now that the new stadium and more new hotels are open.

[Racer26]

I'm with Karthik, the SkyDome (shoot me if I ever call it the Rogers Centre) and Metro Toronto Convention Center combo COULD definitely support the Championships. The square footage is there. As for you southerners complaining about the weather? Historically speaking, by late April winter is well over, and we see temperatures in around the 10-15 C mark. (In American, thats 50 to 60 degrees)

[Travis Hoffman]

People in Atlanta seeking to build a new Falcons stadium on the grounds of the closed Doraville GM facility [happy thoughts] in suburban (i.e. not downtown) Atlanta:

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/category/topicarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20081224&ID=9475000&topic=TOPIC_OPINIONS&isub=2

I wonder what would happen to the Georgia Dome if this were to occur - obviously, it would lose its most notable tenant - I do not know how "booked" the Dome is outside of Falcons home games.

If they blew up the Georgia Dome (Why? It's not that old, is it? Rich getting richer....), I wonder how that would affect Atlanta's chances at retaining the Championship Event long term....

[Steven Sigley]

People in Atlanta seeking to build a new Falcons stadium on the grounds of the closed Doraville GM facility [happy thoughts] in suburban (i.e. not downtown) Atlanta:

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/category/topicarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20081224&ID=9475000&topic=TOPIC_OPINIONS&isub=2

I wonder what would happen to the Georgia Dome if this were to occur - obviously, it would lose its most notable tenant - I do not know how "booked" the Dome is outside of Falcons home games.

If they blew up the Georgia Dome (Why? It's not that old, is it? Rich getting richer....), I wonder how that would affect Atlanta's chances at retaining the Championship Event long term....


In the article you provided it says "The Falcons are bound by a lease to play in the Georgia Dome in downtown Atlanta through 2020, but team owner Arthur Blank said in 2006 he wanted to start negotiating a new downtown Atlanta stadium."

We'd be good for at least 10 more years before we'd even have to worry about it.

[Travis Hoffman]

In the article you provided it says "The Falcons are bound by a lease to play in the Georgia Dome in downtown Atlanta through 2020, but team owner Arthur Blank said in 2006 he wanted to start negotiating a new downtown Atlanta stadium."

We'd be good for at least 10 more years before we'd even have to worry about it.

Ask Seattle Supersonics fans what they think about the security of leases. But anyway:

This mentions the possibility of the lease expiring in 2015:

http://www.ajc.com/living/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/12/24/falcons_doraville.html

Seems there are two competing interests - the suburban Doraville stadium supporters and the GWCC people wanting to build a new stadium downtown. Which option Falcons owner Arthur Blank officially backs remains to be seen.

This may be a non-issue if the city of Atlanta can afford to retain the Georgia Dome even with the absence of the Falcons as a tenant, but it's something to keep an eye on, anyway.

[Tetraman]

This may be a little over the top....but wouldn't it be cool if we could build our own FIRST Robotics Grand Stadium? It could hold all the FIRST robotics championship competitions and conventions, it would be the home of the hall of fame and other history making halls. It could also be a special summer camp for FIRST students. I would have it's own hotels for all teams and other sorts of buildings and centers...and don't forget three bronze statues of Woody, Dean and Dave in the courtyard.

A guy can dream....I'll put that on the list of things I'll do before I die...build that building.

[Enigma's puzzle]

If i became incredibly rich one day i would make a convention center arena designed for that. How could the rest of the world ignore FIRST if that happened.

Maybe the New Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis, adjacent america's center i like that idea i don't know about hotels though, BUT it doesn't get any closer to the center of the country

[cbudrecki]

that's funny, I've had the same ideas. I've pretty much all but drawn out blueprints for the ultimate FIRST stadium! (this sounds like the start of a new thread...)

[suj]

the rogers center or ontario science centers in toronto would be nice oh wait how about direct energy center it's huge

[PinionTwister]

This may be a little over the top....but wouldn't it be cool if we could build our own FIRST Robotics Grand Stadium? It could hold all the FIRST robotics championship competitions and conventions, it would be the home of the hall of fame and other history making halls. It could also be a special summer camp for FIRST students. I would have it's own hotels for all teams and other sorts of buildings and centers...and don't forget three bronze statues of Woody, Dean and Dave in the courtyard.

A guy can dream....I'll put that on the list of things I'll do before I die...build that building.

AMEN!!! If would be great to have our own stadium - purpose built for Robotics competition. I will hope for my lifetime as well.

[DevDebie2200]

I second the idea at Skydome/Rogers Center in Toronto, Ontario

[dodar]

Id say we go back to Disney for the Championships

[Rick TYler]

The championships are scheduled in Atlanta for 2010, according to the GWCC website: http://www.gwcc.com/calendar/gwcc.html.

Building a new stadium is really, really, hugely expensive. Even with FIRST's steadily-increasing cash horde, there's no way they will be able to afford the multiple-hundreds of millions it would cost. Just as a point of comparison, the estimated cost of building the Seattle Sonics a new facility in Renton (a city to the southeast of Seattle) was $400 million. The new owner snuck the team out of town at least in part because that wasn't going to be good enough. It simply isn't going to happen, and even if the money is available I think it would NOT be furthering the goals of FIRST to spend the money this way. I'd rather fund 500,000 Vex or 25,000 VRC teams in 25,000 schools in North America than squander $400 million on a facility that is easily duplicated each year with a comparatively modest rental fee.

[AmyPrib]

For whoever commented that someone should do an analysis of the "centralized" location for teams to attend (like Indy) - it was already done once a few years ago and showed that more teams could reasonably drive to Indy than Atlanta - thus typically saving costs..

So.... I did the analysis again...

This is only accounting for FRC teams.
Data is based on the 340 teams that attended Championships in 2008. Results are similar to what I found back in 2005.

Of those 340 teams, 64 were omitted from much of this because they would have to fly anyways (includes "mandatory fliers" or if 20+hrs of driving).

Note - 54 "Mandatory Fliers" included HI, WA, CA, OR, WA, PR, Brazil, Israel, Mexico. That leaves 10 teams that are 20+hrs driving.

Of the remaining 276 teams:
13 teams are under 3hrs of driving to Atlanta 4.7%
17 teams are under 3hrs of driving to Indy 6.2%

17 teams are under 5hrs of driving to Atlanta 6.2%
73 teams are under 5hrs of driving to Indy 26.4%

74 teams are under 10hrs of driving to Atlanta 26.8%
148 teams are under 10hrs of driving to Indy 53.6%

227 teams are under 15hrs of driving to Atlanta 82.2%
237 teams are under 15hrs of driving to Indy 85.8%

Further - of the 340 teams total: (but not including 54 mandatory fliers)
221 are closer to Indy than Atlanta.
106 teams would shave 5+hrs off their driving if going to Indy instead
33 teams would shave 8+hrs off their driving if going to Indy instead


This is just data. Note it does not take into account who actually flies or drives each year - simply what the realistic potential would be. Also - it's a lot of data, so give or take a few for human error, but it's correct as best I can see.

[Burmeister #279]

I personally love atlanta, the stadium, the park, et al, but to be honest, my parents have not* been able to attend because of other family things, nor can my grandparents because of the distance [12-15 hours of driving] from here [Toledo] to Atlanta. Indy on the other hand, what 5 hours easy? our ENTIRE team plus parents etc. could go simply because its close enough that if there's an emergency in between it wouldn't be a whole day before they got back.

my other 2 cents.

*this year was the first but my grandpa has prostate cancer and can't drive more than 5 hours.

[waialua359]

All of you are just too spoiled. :p

[GaryVoshol]

... because of the distance [12-15 hours of driving] from here [Toledo] to Atlanta.You drive too slow :rolleyes: We figure about 11 hours from Detroit.
Indy on the other hand, what 5 hours easy? Mapquest says 4, so you should be able to make it in even less that that.

Whatever. The 2010 Championship is on the GWCC calendar.

[IndySam]

RFP's are out!

[Burmeister #279]

You drive too slow :rolleyes: We figure about 11 hours from Detroit.
Mapquest says 4, so you should be able to make it in even less that that.

Whatever. The 2010 Championship is on the GWCC calendar.

we don't agree with mapquest =P. in previous years we've had one of our mentors who litterally needed to stop every 2 hours for at least 15 minutes because of 'medical' issues or something plus lunch and/or dinner so 14 hours easily covers it. as for indy, i'd be driving and i'd probably go out a day earlier to a camp ground my family owns near angola and hang out there for the night so the 5 hours wouldn't apply anyways =)

as for building, yes i understand the cost for a FIRST HQ would be IMMENSE^10^10 and is the money is much better spent on getting the programs into other highschools, it was just a thought.

i'm up for anyplace closer than atlanta if such a chance arises =)

[suj]

Hershy center. direct energy center, ontario science center, the rogers center, the streets of toronto ???????????????????????? waterloo? somewhere in ontario

[XaulZan11]

I got the perfect idea (for me atleast). As a huge Viking fan I know that they Vikings are looking for a new 1 billion dollar stadium that building needs to start this summer. So, why doesn't FIRST pay the 700 million that the Vikings want the general public to pay and they share it? The Vikings stay in Minnesota and the Championship is closer to me! Perfect plan.

[Alan Anderson]

...why doesn't FIRST pay the 700 million...

A simple question, with a simple answer: FIRST doesn't have $700 million to spend.

[xAlLKnoWingOnex]

that sounds amazing

[Taylor]

A simple question, with a simple answer: FIRST doesn't have $700 million to spend.

... yet

[XaulZan11]

A simple question, with a simple answer: FIRST doesn't have $700 million to spend.

Lol, yeah I know...Atleast its better than FIRST building thier own stadium like others suggested. If they did though, I won't have to replace all my things that say 'Minnesota' Vikings...

[Smoores]

Speaking of transportation, our team(2272)might be the first team ever to flip a car on its side before we even left the parking spot. :yikes:








I love the championship in Atlanta. If it was in L.A, FIRST would hate it so much they would not even give the L.A. based teams a KOP the next year. Besides, the L.A. regional isn't even in L.A. this year.

[Astarties]

I also suspect it's not going much if any farther west than Atlanta. Leaving the middle of the country makes it much more difficult for the majority of teams to get there.


Umm, last I checked, Atlanta was not in the middle of the country.

It's too bad you need stadium seats for an event like this. The Las Vegas Convention Center could handle it easy. Over 3,200,000 square feet.

[alectronic]

\;770068']just throwing this out there:

FIRST should invest a whole bunch of money and build their own megacomplex that doubles as a FIRST college for people who want to be engineers or scientists.

that would be awesome, but i think they are already running "in overdrive" you could say to run what they currently have. boy, what i would do to see that though!

[alectronic]

Hershy center. direct energy center, ontario science center, the rogers center, the streets of toronto ???????????????????????? waterloo? somewhere in ontario

sorry, but they would never go out of the US, it is already a nightmare to get 2 field and a KoP to non-US teams let alone millions of dollars of electronics and 400+ teams!!

[alectronic]

that's funny, I've had the same ideas. I've pretty much all but drawn out blueprints for the ultimate FIRST stadium! (this sounds like the start of a new thread...)

maybe a contest?? CAD! Yeah!!

[BPetry234]

I know in Indianapolis, the Indianapolis Convention Center was part of the RCA dome. Plenty of hotels were directly connected to the building, and the CC could handle the pits easily (hey, it handled 2 world-wide Star Wars conventions without a problem).

However, now that the Colts have moved to their new stadium next door, I don't know if the new stadium has a similar setup, or what the plan is for the CC at the old RCA dome. Anyone from IN know?

As far as the CC, they are actually expanding it. We have car shows, Star Wars conventions (like you said), and the Indianapolis 500, which is no joke. The Super Bowl is also being held there in I think 2012. Indianapolis has the infrastructure, the space, and the know how to run such a large event as the FIRST championship. It is also fairly centrally located (Crossroads of America) so it would be easy to get to for almost every team other then those who have to fly. And for those folks, we just put in a new airport.

[OZ_341]

Amen to that. From the point of a coach who arranges the trip and needs to occupy and account for the students in the off hours Disney was the ideal "family" location. I know of NUMEROUS other coaches who agree with this. Is anybody listening?

WC :cool:

Is there any word as to when they will decide on the 2010 Championship location? Disney would be awesome. Kid safe, lots of hotels, lots of media exposure for FIRST.
Win, Win, Win!

[IndySam]

Is there any word as to when they will decide on the 2010 Championship location? Disney would be awesome. Kid safe, lots of hotels, lots of media exposure for FIRST.
Win, Win, Win!
2010 is in Atlanta

For the next contract the 4 finalist are Atlanta, Indy, St Louis and Phoenix. Sorry no Disney.

[Rosiebotboss]

Phoenix is out.

[IndySam]

Phoenix is out.

Why, when did that happen?

[Alan Anderson]

Is there any word as to when they will decide on the 2010 Championship location?

It's already decided. The Georgia Dome and Georgia World Congress Center calendars show FIRST for 04/14/10 - 04/17/10.

[OZ_341]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Good luck in the off-season!

[waialua359]

What happened to those rumors about having it in Seattle?
Many will argue that it should stay from either the Midwest area or east of it.
I say move it West and have the East Coast-side teams share the burden of the "higher" travel costs vs the West Coast-side teams over the years. :D :D

Too bad Phoenix is out..and too bad they cant alternate West-side, East-side from year to year.

[KF987]

When I was down on the Galileo field in Atlatna there was a representative from Indy who had a book that laid out how the event would be set up (field layout, pits...) To me it looked like he was going to make a pitch to have the event held in Indy for 2011.

-Keaton

[Fireworks 234]

When I was down on the Galileo field in Atlatna there was a representative from Indy who had a book that laid out how the event would be set up (field layout, pits...) To me it looked like he was going to make a pitch to have the event held in Indy for 2011.

-Keaton

Sounds good to me :D

[fuzzy1718]

I don't know how feasible it is, or if it has ever been brought up before, but why not have at Joe Louis in Detroit? You've got Cobo hall next door and the smart bus has a stop there. Has any one ever tried? Just a thought for future years.

[EdwardP]

It's not a football field, so it's probably too small...

[Jared Russell]

Of the finalists, Indy and St. Louis sound the best to me. A central championship location is the best compromise for everybody. And after several years in Atlanta, I personally am ready to go somewhere new. Both cities have major airports, plenty of lodging, and large indoor venues.

[waialua359]

Yes, time for a change of scenery and more central location. :D

[Rosiebotboss]

Got any BIG venues in Hawaii??

[waialua359]

Hawaii cannot host such an event. We have a large enough football stadium, but its not indoors.
That's too bad. I'd bet teams would be willing to come for a CMP event despite the costs. Imagine if FIRST expanded big time to Asia, which is what we are hoping for and working on getting more teams? That would be the best "central" location to have it.
I have yet to hear of any team outside of Hawaii complain about our Hawaii regional yet, except that they couldnt stay longer.:p

[J. Stofflett]

Football stadium would work in the days of Disney it was outdoors covered stage setup in the parking lot at Epcot

[JimWright949]

What happened to those rumors about having it in Seattle?


We could hold it in Quest Field (where the Seahawks play), of course it's an open roof, and it rains a lot, but don't look at those items as problems, look at the rain as an opportunity for a water game.

-Jim

[dwaynetrip3119]

I don't know how feasible it is, or if it has ever been brought up before, but why not have at Joe Louis in Detroit? You've got Cobo hall next door and the smart bus has a stop there. Has any one ever tried? Just a thought for future years.
Cobo arena in detroit will be a good idea. Detroit hosts so many huge events such as Wrestle Mania 21, The Super Bowl and The final four. Those events are at for field but at Cobo, the north american auto show is hosted there every year. There are two huge places in Detroit where it can be hosted.

[waialua359]

Well believe me,
if it could happen in Hawaii, that would be great!
Who knows,
We've been told by certain FIRST officials in the past that it was impossible to have a Hawaii regional over the years, and with the support of other FIRST officials, NASA, our State Government, BAE Systems and fellow Hawaii/mainland teams, we proved them wrong!

Lets start the push now!! :yikes:

[JeffChan]

Hawaii cannot host such an event. We have a large enough football stadium, but its not indoors.
That's too bad. I'd bet teams would be willing to come for a CMP event despite the costs. Imagine if FIRST expanded big time to Asia, which is what we are hoping for and working on getting more teams? That would be the best "central" location to have it.
I have yet to hear of any team outside of Hawaii complain about our Hawaii regional yet, except that they couldnt stay longer.:p

Hmm only been to Hawaii once but could the Hawaii convention center work? Just a try...

[Big Ben]

2010 championships should be held in indianapolis
there is room with the new lucas oil staduim and the pits can be right next to in the convention center

[EricH]

Football stadium would work in the days of Disney it was outdoors covered stage setup in the parking lot at Epcot
And note: covered. And I've heard about the "moisture" and heat in the pit tents... Not going to go there...

[Nawaid Ladak]

I for one, would love to see it back in Orlando (I wasn't around when it was origionally here... i wish i was though). The magic of disney + the florida weather would make it perfect

(Eric, we had the tent pits for the Florida Regional from 2003-2007, I know what your talking about)

[Sarah H]

Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa...are they thinking bout changing nationals. noooo im graduating this year...Im goina be SO jealous if you get it back in disney, that would be so sweet! but not fair

[JaneYoung]

I don't know about the future and won't know about the future until the information is made available. What I do know about is a moment that I will never forget. It occurred Saturday night after all the competitions were finished, the medals and trophies had been awarded, the crowds had dispersed, and most of the action had moved to the Finale. I had returned with my friend, Sarah Plemmons, (who was the fantastic Volunteer Coordinator for the Galileo pits) to retrieve her car. We were walking to the elevator to take us down to the garage where it was parked. Where we were walking was across the grass near where the big FIRST banner had hung for a few days and where colorful groups of people had thrown frizbees, played, walked, talked, and laughed. But Saturday night after all was said and done, it was still. Quiet. Beautiful. I stood there for a few minutes and inhaled the fresh cool air and the moment of stillness and I told Sarah that I understand the FIRSTers who remember Disney with fondness and a desire to return. If the Championship were to move from Atlanta, I would have that same sadness, happy fondness, and the desire to return to the wonder that is the Championship in Atlanta. I'm very glad I had that quiet moment with no one around but Sarah. She didn't even attempt one OINK OINK BOOM - I think she was too tired. :)

[Imadapocalypse]

i hope that the competition comes more towards the west coast
i dont think i can handle another 24 hours in just airports and planes

[GaryVoshol]

Cobo arena in detroit will be a good idea. Detroit hosts so many huge events such as Wrestle Mania 21, The Super Bowl and The final four. Those events are at for field but at Cobo, the north american auto show is hosted there every year. There are two huge places in Detroit where it can be hosted.No, JLA is not big enough. There's only 20000 seats total, and you can't fit 4 FRC fields, 2 FTC fields and 12 FLL tables on a hockey rink. They would fit at Ford Field, but there's no adjoining convention center for the pits. And there's no place for 20000+ fans to sit in Cobo.

[blackiceskier]

hey what about the thought of new york city in madison square garden? plenty of seating hotels a plenty and pit space

[dangerousdave]

hey what about the thought of new york city in madison square garden? plenty of seating hotels a plenty and pit spaceIt has been mentioned here and in other threads concerning another Championship location. Your standard basketball / hockey arena will not work. Also, what if the basketball or hockey teams are still playing in mid April? Where are you going to put 5 playing fields plus FLL and other events. Where will the pits be placed? Where will all of the people sit?

Those are just a few of the reasons that the Championship event requires a domed stadium next to or including a massive amount of floor space for the pits. You also need many thousands of hotel rooms near the event with rapid transit close by. An airport very close by that can handle 90 million passengers per year is also helpful. Hundreds of restaurants close by are also helpful. Atlanta easily meets this requirement.

We haven't even talked about the weather yet. Atlanta "almost" always has great weather for Championship's. Yes there have been a few times when the evening at the FIRST Finale party has been in chilly weather but overall the weather has been great for the entire 3 or 4 days.

There appear to be only a few cities that might meet this criteria, maybe Indianapolis or St. Louis? Some here have mentioned that the weather in those cities has been comparable to Atlanta weather in mid April but I can't say.

I am sure that the First staff involved with this type of decision making will make a good decision for the Championship event from 2011 and beyond. It has been fantastic having the event in my "back yard" for 6 years and I would love for that to continue. However, I am sure other cities that have the right facilities would also do a great job so best of luck to every city being considered!

Dave

[Koko Ed]

hey what about the thought of new york city in madison square garden? plenty of seating hotels a plenty and pit space

The $40 I had to pay to park @ the Javitt's center has clinched my disinterest in going to any more FIRST events in New York City.

[Elgin Clock]

The following are cities that offer an Airport to affiliated city train service just like Atlanta currently does.

This is the best thing Atlanta has over a lot of other cities in the past who have held The Championship Event in my opinion.



Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartsfield-Jackson_Atlanta_International_Airport) via MARTA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Atlanta_Rapid_Transit_Authority)
Baltimore-Washington International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore-Washington_International_Airport) via the Baltimore Light Rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Light_Rail)
Cleveland's Hopkins International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopkins_International_Airport) via Cleveland Rapid Transit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Rapid_Transit) (the first direct rail connection in the United States)
Chicago
O'Hare International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Hare_International_Airport) via the 'L' Blue Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Line_(Chicago_Transit_Authority))
Chicago Midway International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Midway_International_Airport) via the the 'L' Orange Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Line_(Chicago_Transit_Authority))
Dallas Love Field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Love_Field) via DART (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Area_Rapid_Transit) (under construction; scheduled to open in late 2010)
McCarran International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarran_International_Airport) via Las Vegas Monorail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Monorail) (under construction, scheduled to open in 2011)
Mexico City International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_International_Airport) via the Mexico City Metro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metro)'s Line 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metro_Line_5)
Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis-Saint_Paul_International_Airport) via the Hiawatha Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiawatha_Line)
Portland International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_International_Airport) via MAX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_(MAX_station))
San Francisco International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_International_Airport) via BART (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Area_Rapid_Transit)
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle-Tacoma_International_Airport) via Central Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Link) (under construction; scheduled to open in late 2009)
St. Louis' Lambert-St. Louis International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert-St._Louis_International_Airport) via the St. Louis MetroLink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_MetroLink)
Vancouver International Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_International_Airport) in Richmond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_British_Columbia) (near Vancouver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver)) via the Canada Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Line) (under construction; scheduled to open in late 2009)
Washington, DC's Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Washington_National_Airport) in Arlington, Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington,_Virginia) via the Washington Metro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan_Washington_National_Airport_(Washing ton_Metro))
Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_rail_link

I would be willing to bet if The Championship Event ever moved, it would be one of the cities listed above for just this very reason.

[Rosiebotboss]

The following are cities that offer an Airport to affiliated city train service just like Atlanta currently does.

This is the best thing Atlanta has over a lot of other cities in the past who have held The Championship Event in my opinion.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_rail_link

I would be willing to bet if The Championship Event ever moved, it would be one of the cities listed above for just this very reason.

That list is not completely accurate because Boston is not on it. Not that Boston could be considered becaus eit does not have a domed stadium.

What about Indianapolis? Does that have rail service from the airport?

[Zyik]

Looking back through the posts I see New Orleans being mentioned occasionally. It sure could use the economy boost. I visited in 2008 and stayed for a few days. It really is a wonderful city. There's 591 hotel results thrown up when I ask Google for Hotels near the Super Dome. Most seem to be easy walking distance, and as one who hiked all over looking at the sites I know that the streets aren't bad in the French Quarter. The disadvantage I see is that I don't believe it has a rail system like MARTA. What does anyone else think about it as a choice?

[EricH]

That list is not completely accurate because Boston is not on it. Not that Boston could be considered becaus eit does not have a domed stadium.

What about Indianapolis? Does that have rail service from the airport?
Los Angeles isn't either. It's not a direct connection (yet?), but the LAX shuttle buses do go to the Metro Green Line, which is just off the airport. However, no domed football stadium here, so no good. (Unless there is one that I don't know about.)

[IndySam]

What about Indianapolis? Does that have rail service from the airport?

No but we are used to organizing buses to take large numbers of youth downtown. We host the annual FFA convention every year and it's larger than FIRST.

[Stu Bloom]

No but we are used to organizing buses to take large numbers of youth downtown. We host the annual FFA convention every year and it's larger than FIRST.MUCH larger ... more than 54,000 high school members according to this article (http://www.hpj.com/archives/2009/jan09/jan5/NationalFFAConventionwillro.cfm). Not to mention over 400,000 visitors for the Indy 500 every year.

I have volunteered at a few of these events (multiple final fours, Indianapolis Tennis Champs, etc...) and I have seen first hand how well we do with continuous shuttles for events like this.

While light rail would be GREAT (there is some discussion currently) I'm sure it won't happen here in Indy until at least the next round of bids for a new FIRST championship city.

One more thing ... if there was to be any consideration of moving FTC and FLL into the convention center, Lucas Oil Stadium is large enough for the FRC playing fields AND the FRC pits.

[Macdaddy549]

My suggestion is Disney. I attended the 2001 event and the atmosphere was electric. Much more than the Championships since. The pits and the playing fields were not far away from each other. That meant for an easy transition from the field to the pit. You have to admit that it's a VERY long walk. With this great distance it's hard to go back and forth. Also the venue is much to big. It doesn't have that closeness like the regionals. Let's get away from these giant 70,000 seat stadiums. You only need seating for 15,000 at the most. That's my 2cents. :ahh:

[Cory]

My suggestion is Disney. I attended the 2001 event and the atmosphere was electric. Much more than the Championships since. The pits and the playing fields were not far away from each other. That meant for an easy transition from the field to the pit. You have to admit that it's a VERY long walk. With this great distance it's hard to go back and forth. Also the venue is much to big. It doesn't have that closeness like the regionals. Let's get away from these giant 70,000 seat stadiums. You only need seating for 15,000 at the most. That's my 2cents. :ahh:

In 2002 there were something like 240 teams at Epcot and the tent city setup was pretty much maxed out in that configuration. Combine that with a very small FLL presence and nonexistent FTC program, and there was room. With all the FLL/FTC teams there are now, they'd have to significantly expand the scope of the tent city, which obviously hasn't happened yet (and probably never will).

[EricH]

Let's get away from these giant 70,000 seat stadiums. You only need seating for 15,000 at the most. That's my 2cents. :ahh:
What are the actual numbers on how many people attend? I'm willing to bet it's more than 15,000.

Let's think about this a bit. There are 340 teams at the Championships. On average, each team brings 10 students and 2 mentors, for a total of 12, of whom 6 need seating most of the time and 6 need it part of the time. (Assumed numbers; actual average is higher. The 6 who need it part of the time are the drive team and 2 "pit guards".)

So, 340*6=2040. That's reasonable-- Until you figure that during Einstein, each team needs 10 seats, unless they're on the floor and then they need 5. 328*10+12*5=3340. You could still do it in a 15,000-seat area. BUT...

How many teams travel with 12 people to the championship? Not many. Plus, I didn't count the visiting populace, the judges, and such like.

So let's say that you bring the average up to 30 persons/team, which is much closer. Again, 24 need seating the whole time, but we'll say that all of them do because the drive team does like to take a break now and again. Also, 340 is a small estimate; I believe it's closer to 350 now. So, 350*30=10,500. Round up to 11,000 for the FRC event, to include everyone (judges, refs, volunteers that aren't on Einstein, etc.). Incidentally, that's actually a pretty small estimate; my team traveled with about 30, and that was everyone. We were often dwarfed in the stands by other teams...

BUT (again), you forget FTC. 10 students per team, plus parents and adults--call it 15 people per team average. I believe that that's another division worth--80 teams. 80*15=1200 people.

And FLL, same as FTC (roughly)--1200 people.

So you have 11000+2400=13400 people. Again allowing for spectators and judges, 14,000. So you could get everyone in, with a little margin, if you make one key assumption:


You're assuming that 6 FRC-sized fields can fit into the floor area of a 15,000-20,000 seat stadium (which would be what, basketball or hockey?), and that there will then be enough entrances and exits for everyone, and that there's a way to arrange them for maximum view, and that there's adequate pit space nearby and a short way to get to it. And remember, they all have to be able to see the Championship field.

If you can find such a place, propose it to FIRST. But remember: you also have to allow for international teams (airport), easy transport (light rail, bus system, lots of parking), plenty of hotel rooms (hey, all those 14,000 people have to stay SOMEWHERE), and no other events at about the same time that'll really tax the above-mentioned transit/lodging arrangements.

If the above criteria were taken, I'd propose Long Beach as the site. It fits, right? (Well, until you try cramming 6 FRC fields onto the Sports Arena floor, that is.)

[waialua359]

Of all the discussions here, it looks like Indy seems the most likely choice other than Atlanta.
I'd go for DisneyWorld any day, but I agree also that it just cant do the event justice facilities-wise like Atlanta.

[kyra2443]

you're all invited to hawaii!!! its a really really long plane ride considering where's you're team is but its so worth it!!! we could go into aloha stadium but sorry no roof but who would need it if you're in hawaii!!!:D

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Of all the discussions here, it looks like Indy seems the most likely choice other than Atlanta.
I'd go for DisneyWorld any day, but I agree also that it just cant do the event justice facilities-wise like Atlanta.

The Disney property may not have the facilities, but Disney could sponsor the event in Orlando. And Orlando does have the facilities.

[IndySam]

The Disney property may not have the facilities, but Disney could sponsor the event in Orlando. And Orlando does have the facilities.

Well they can bid on the next contract in 2014.

[gorrilla]

Well they can bid on the next contract in 2014.

I say...
Raymond James Stadium anyone?;)

[qwertyuiop[]\]

i would love to say that the DC convention center would be a great place, but considering price, it probably would be a little absurd. Also if you are trying to get from the airport to the competition via train it would work to well coming from reagan because most flights to DC come through dulles. THis location as a champion ship event would only work once the dulles rail extension is completed. however concerning space, there is plenty of it. the DC regional was full with plenty of space to spare, while only using one of the centers 4 halls which can be combined into one.

[Koko Ed]

My suggestion is Disney. I attended the 2001 event and the atmosphere was electric. Much more than the Championships since. The pits and the playing fields were not far away from each other. That meant for an easy transition from the field to the pit. You have to admit that it's a VERY long walk. With this great distance it's hard to go back and forth. Also the venue is much to big. It doesn't have that closeness like the regionals. Let's get away from these giant 70,000 seat stadiums. You only need seating for 15,000 at the most. That's my 2cents. :ahh:

I don't get the Disney love fest seriously.
All I remember was being hot all the time and could care less about the robots.
Going to the parks afterwards was nice and all but our old lead teacher was right: the FIRST championships at Disney is more about Disney than is about FIRST.
We need to be somewhere where FIRST is the main focus not a side attraction in an amusement park.

[Richard Wallace]

I don't get the Disney love fest seriously.
All I remember was being hot all the time and could care less about the robots.
Going to the parks afterwards was nice and all but our old lead teacher was right: the FIRST championships at Disney is more about Disney than is about FIRST.We need to be somewhere where FIRST is the main focus not a side attraction in an amusement park.

<emphasis mine>

I know the kids on my team had fun when FIRST was at EPCOT in '97, but FIRST wasn't always the first thing on their minds. The adults on the team saw it very differently -- several of them told me they'd rather have been there with their own families. The following year we chose to compete at the (new) Midwest Regional, rather than go back to Disney.

[Donut]

The following are cities that offer an Airport to affiliated city train service just like Atlanta currently does.

This is the best thing Atlanta has over a lot of other cities in the past who have held The Championship Event in my opinion.


This fact is why I was surprised to see Phoenix mentioned as one of the Finalists a few pages back. Phoenix has a venue now (the Arizona Cardinals stadium is across the street from the Phoenix Coyotes hockey arena, and there is a large convention center in one of the hotels in the same plaza), and a track record from hosting the recent Super Bowl and NCAA Football Championship, but the major thing still missing is a good transportation link to the airport. The stadium is at least a 20 minute drive from the airport, and although Phoenix just opened a light rail system it is not planned to connect to the stadium until 2017. In addition although we hosted a number of events most people for those big games had to be bussed over because there aren't enough hotels right by the stadium quite yet (and with no light rail line, no easy access to hotels a little further away).

I will say however that Phoenix would be an excellent location for the 2017 Championships and beyond :D


Anyway if a change of scenery can be made to the Championships without compromising its quality, I'm all for it.