Need advices from veterans! [Archive]

View Full Version : Need advices from veterans!

jab0ii

26-10-2008, 23:56

Lowfategg

27-10-2008, 00:03

Best resource I have found so far.

http://first.wpi.edu/

Watch some of the workshop videos, some are better than others.

Duncan Macdonald

27-10-2008, 00:11

Lowfategg

27-10-2008, 00:23

Good luck, while it is useful to have a general knowledge of everything but I would caution you to avoid the "jack of all trades master of none" scenario. Pick a couple that you think you you would enjoy the most and learn them thoroughly.

Then again, it is good to have someone that understand each part of the robot somewhat well. I think they usually call that person the build leader. :P

But yes, for a beginner start by learning something well.

AndyB

27-10-2008, 00:29

If you enjoy drafting (inventor, solidworks, etc...) I would recommend going that route. That's how I started learning. Take a previous year's robot, and model the whole thing with as much detail as you can. You'll start to learn a LOT.

Furthermore, you'll bring a skill to your team.

Akash Rastogi

27-10-2008, 00:30

Hi, I'm a sophomore and this year I decided to fully commit to our school's robotic club.

Your attitude is the first thing which impresses me. Looking around on these forums is your first step. Learn the basics of each if you want to become the jack of all trades but don't get into details. Second, make sure that there is someone on your team (both at least 1 student and one mentor) who knows about the full workings of the new control system. For anything else, Chief Delphi is pretty much the place to look. Keep your attitude of gaining the most knowledge you can gain though, it might get you farther that you think.:)

R.C.

27-10-2008, 00:32

Hi, I'm a sophomore and this year I decided to fully commit to our school's robotic club. The problem is I don't know where to start learning about everything in a robot ( motors, gears, electrical, pneumatics, wheels etc..)
I wish to accumulate enough knowledge that I can literally build a First robot myself when I'm a senior. Any advices will be appreciated!:D

In my opinion this a great thing, I have done the same and by the end of your sophmore year you will know a little bit about everything. I totally agree with Akash. Start off by looking at previous games, robots and successful teams. 1114, 330, 217, 233, 254/968, 148, 11, 67, 987,25, 1024 are just a handful of good ones. Analyze their robots and look at what they do right. Then go back and check out the KOP and analyze each part and their uses. Learn CAD, Inventor or Solidworks. Talk to other teams and search chiefdelphi, it is a great source of info. After you are familar with these, start looking at the drivetrain. The drivetrain is a very important part of each robot. There are many different types:
-Westcoast
-6wd = rocker = skid steer
-4wd = omnis and offset omnis
-8wd
-crab
-meccum
-omni
and so on, make sure to find out about different types of gearboxes.

Find out the pros and cons of each one and design a few, CAD it out. Then after that, take a look over the electronics and pnuematics. By the end of this you should know a fairly decent amount of knowledge. Look at how to design a proper arm (1323 or 330 or 67), forklift (254/968 has) a cool one) and take a look at team pinks telescopic arm. Research is one of the most important "element of first". I hope this helps and I don't think the poofs would mind showing you a couple of their old robots in person. If you need help, just email me (rcthekid1323@gmail.com)

have fun,

-rc

NickE

27-10-2008, 00:41

Hi, I'm a sophomore and this year I decided to fully commit to our school's robotic club. The problem is I don't know where to start learning about everything in a robot ( motors, gears, electrical, pneumatics, wheels etc..)
I wish to accumulate enough knowledge that I can literally build a First robot myself when I'm a senior. Any advices will be appreciated!:DI'm a sophmore now, and I started to become really involved during build season of 2008 (my freshman year). I just showed up alot, and was asked to do things by the higher ranking students on the team. Over time, I began to gain alot of knowledge about robots, and I was asked to join the pit team. Throughout being on the pit, and just being around robots, I gained alot of knowledge about them. Towards the end of the year, I completely took apart the wiring on the 2007 robot and re-wired it as just the drivebase. We loaded the 2008 code onto it, and it drove!

I then started to learn SolidWorks, working with current members of our team. Over the summer, I designed possible robot frames, gearboxes and parts for future years. None of them were ever implemented into our final concepts, but the critique I recieved about them helped me improve my designs. Now, for the 2009 year, I am the student leader of the CAD subteam, and I am one of the two student co-leaders the robot build team.

The key thing here is to show up. Doing CAD helps alot as well.
Also, be sure that if you have any questions, ask anybody else. Any mentor would be happy to answer it.

EricH

27-10-2008, 00:54

The drivetrain is a very important part of each robot. There are many different types:
-Westcoast
-6wd = rocker = skid steer
-4wd = omnis and offset omnis
-8wd
-crab
-meccum
-omni
and so on, make sure to find out about different types of gearboxes.

Actually, the West Coast drive is a 6WD "drop" ("rocker") drive. Typically, the true West Coast drive has small (6" max) cantilevered custom wheels, while the larger 6WD class can have any one of a number of differences.

Oh, and "meccum" is actually "mecanum". It's an omni-directional drive.

There's also the rarely-used tank treads, and the occasional 3WD, 2WD, or manyWD. (And for further confusion: the swerve. I still don't quite know what the difference is between crab and swerve, other than the way the steering modules are linked.)

OK, off the drives now...

You really don't want to try to learn everything in one year. Start with one general area, say mechanical. Learn all you want to know about that area, or until you know enough to know that you don't want to know more. Then learn another. And another. Learn CAD along the way somewhere. A good place to start might be drivetrain--it's the most key element of a robot, and it's the easiest to get a working knowledge of and the hardest to master. Yeah, you get one in the KOP. Is that one the one you really want? Maybe not... If not, then let the fun and games begin.:rolleyes:

R.C.

27-10-2008, 00:57

Actually, the West Coast drive is a 6WD "drop" ("rocker") drive. Typically, the true West Coast drive has small (6" max) cantilevered custom wheels, while the larger 6WD class can have any one of a number of differences.

Oh, and "meccum" is actually "mecanum". It's an omni-directional drive.

There's also the rarely-used tank treads, and the occasional 3WD, 2WD, or manyWD. (And for further confusion: the swerve. I still don't quite know what the difference is between crab and swerve, other than the way the steering modules are linked.)

OK, off the drives now...

You really don't want to try to learn everything in one year. Start with one general area, say mechanical. Learn all you want to know about that area, or until you know enough to know that you don't want to know more. Then learn another. And another. Learn CAD along the way somewhere. A good place to start might be drivetrain--it's the most key element of a robot, and it's the easiest to get a working knowledge of and the hardest to master. Yeah, you get one in the KOP. Is that one the one you really want? Maybe not... If not, then let the fun and games begin.:rolleyes:

Thanks EricH, i messed up the drives a bit. THE KOP CHASSIS UH??? :ahh:

EricH

27-10-2008, 01:03

THE KOP CHASSIS UH??? :ahh: Actually, I was referring to the KOP gearboxes. Some types of drive virtually require a custom gearbox, while others do just fine with the KOP one. (My team used four Toughboxes in a mecanum drive last year. We probably should have taken out the second reduction.)

R.C.

27-10-2008, 01:06

Actually, I was referring to the KOP gearboxes. Some types of drive virtually require a custom gearbox, while others do just fine with the KOP one. (My team used four Toughboxes in a mecanum drive last year. We probably should have taken out the second reduction.)

Starting with hardest ehh :eek:, have fun with that one.

Akash Rastogi

27-10-2008, 01:10

Also some great resources are available on 1114's website. Awesome powerpoints. Also, Greg Needel has the best powerpoints to train members.

http://www.simbotics.org/workshops

Hope that helps. Other than just finding and researching information like this, its all learning by doing. Go look at your past robots (if you have them still) or go to some off seasons and learn how each robot was built in a step by step fashion. I suggest you start with mechanical design first for this year. Next year if you really want, move into CAD.

EricH

27-10-2008, 01:11

Starting with hardest ehh :eek:, have fun with that one.We did... I think the best we did was 4 laps, after changing sprockets at the event.

=Martin=Taylor=

27-10-2008, 01:16

R.C.

27-10-2008, 01:17

We did... I think the best we did was 4 laps, after changing sprockets at the event.

What were the ratios and were you guys hurdlers.

Vikesrock

27-10-2008, 01:27

There's a lot of good advice here but there is one key resource I don't see being mentioned. The mentors and veteran students on your team are some of if not the best resources for learning about the process.

I agree with the sentiment that it is best to start out by being an expert in one system. Do to the way our team formed I did not have that luxury, but I wish I had. Select a system, then find a vet or mentor on your team that worked on that system last year. Have them go through last year's 'bot with you and explain how that system works. ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS! Have them explain to you how it was made from an idea in someones head all the way to it's final form.

R.C.

27-10-2008, 01:34

ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS! Have them explain to you how it was made from an idea in someones head all the way to it's final form.

This is extremely important and feel to ask anyone, FIRST participants and Mentors would love to help.

EricH

27-10-2008, 01:42

What were the ratios and were you guys hurdlers.Standard toughbox inside; I recall we ended up with about a 1:1 (after a 1:3 was too slow) from there to the wheels. We weren't hurdlers; we would have liked to be, but we had a variety of issues that had to be fixed.

Liz Smith

27-10-2008, 08:15

My advice is to be at a lot of meetings, listen, and watch. Ask questions about something until you're able to explain that thing to someone else.

Looking at successful robots is a great way to learn about the different options there are for building a robot. I would suggest also looking at some of the less successful robots as well. Figure out why robot A is more successful than robot B. Maybe they decided to use acrylic sheets instead of lexan to protect components, but quickly realized upon impact it shatters all over the field. You can learn from their mistakes without actually making the mistake yourself.

Don't be afraid to ask your mentors and teammates questions. At competition, don't be afraid to ask other teams questions, most are more than willing to explain components.

JaneYoung

27-10-2008, 08:22

I wish to accumulate enough knowledge that I can literally build a First robot myself when I'm a senior. Any advices will be appreciated!:D
A couple of thoughts:

The people holding a lot of the knowledge that you seek, are your mentors. Spend time listening to them, working with them, observing them. Many FIRST mentors love to share their knowledge and their wisdom and your time on the team will grow in value by appreciating and learning from their experiences.

The second thought is that if you accumulate enough knowledge by the time that you are a senior, you will be able to literally build a FIRST robot as a member of a team, having learned to work together - everyone doing their part.

Good luck with this!
Jane

Tom Line

27-10-2008, 08:40

Then again, it is good to have someone that understand each part of the robot somewhat well. I think they usually call that person the build leader. :P

Actually, most of the time he's called a manager, and is the butt-end of every joke that the guys who do the actual work can come up with.... :D

Andrew Schreiber

27-10-2008, 11:41

First suggestion, keep up the attitude, learning is always a good thing.

Second suggestion, specialize. Too many times have I seen robots that tried to do everything fail because they were mediocre at everything. Alliances are there for a reason, you need to surround yourself with people who complement your skills and abilities. And if my anecdote is too subtle, there is a reason that FIRST is not about individuals, FIRST is about teaching students that they CANT do everything but instead need to work together to accomplish a goal, chances are that you wont be able to build the best FRC robot on your own, but if you can do one thing well and you find people who do the other things you will build a better machine than if you did it alone. Or for those of you know prefer SQL code:

DECLARE @Robot INT
SELECT @Robot = SUM(Skills) FROM Students WHERE Contributed = 1

That being said, after you specialize there is nothing wrong with broadening your horizons, and never ever be afraid to say, "you know, I dont like doing this anymore." and to change your goals.

Disclaimer: I am not saying not to have a goal of being able to build a robot yourself, I am saying that while that is a great goal, do not kid yourself into thinking you are the best at all things. Accept help and give it often.

Also, I applaud your decision to commit to robotics, I just encourage you to ask yourself why you do it. Ask yourself often and if you cant find a reason perhaps take the time to sit down and ask yourself where you are going and if it helps you towards your goals. (This applies to all things in life)

Herodotus

27-10-2008, 12:01

The best thing you can do, in my experience, is specialize in one field, but also learn a bit in everything else.

More important than that, however, is deciding where you are learning from. Online workshops and these forums are good resources but they have nothing on good mentors. Your mentors are the greatest source of information you have access to, and what really set FIRST apart from just learning about these things. Use your mentors as much as you can, always listen to their advice and always be willing to ask questions and actively learn from them.

I cannot stress enough that you need to make the absolute most of your mentors, as they are better than any book or website or anything.

gorrilla

27-10-2008, 13:40

asking lots of questions really is the best way to learn something

and CAD is a great tool to use in designing a robot

now my team needs to get on that:P

lynca

28-10-2008, 10:10

Best resource I have found so far.

http://first.wpi.edu/

Watch some of the workshop videos, some are better than others.

I agree with the wpi link , There are a few other sites as well that organize material in different ways.

http://www.mentorsearch.us/training

http://www.mvrt.com/2008/resources/trainings.php

http://www.fsrobotics.org/moe365//moementum/moementum.php

Anna B.

28-10-2008, 15:25

My advice? Don't just watch and listen, get in there and do it. You can learn a lot from doing, just don't be afraid to make mistakes. You should take those mistakes and learn from them.
-Anna