**FIRST EMAIL**/ALA Sponsorship, Forums Open and Control System Update

[Mark McLeod]

Greetings Teams:


Be FIRST with ALA!

The Association for Laboratory Automation (ALA) is a nonprofit scientific society whose mission is to advance science and education related to laboratory automation.

And that is why ALA is a proud sponsor of FIRST!

ALA and FIRST have partnered for the second year to celebrate FIRST at ALA’s annual conference and exhibition LabAutomation2009, January 24-28, Palm Springs, CA, USA. LabAutomation2009 is a five-day event comprising a diverse group of over 5,000 scientists, academicians, and business leaders from more than 45 countries.

Visit www.labautomation.org/LA09 (http://www.labautomation.org/LA09) for details:


* Premier FIRST team; Team Spyder from Poway, CA will be featured in the Exhibit Hall alongside 250 multi-national companies featuring the latest in laboratory robotics and technology. Come see these outstanding young scientists as they display and operate their winning robots in the ALA Member Center.
* John Abele, Founder and Chairman - Retired, Boston Scientific & FIRST Chairman of the Board, joins LabAutomation2009’s elite series of Plenary Speakers.


Join FIRST at LabAutomation2009 this January in Palm Springs, CA, USA. For complete details on the LabAutomation conference and exhibition, visit www.labautomation.org/LA09 (http://www.labautomation.org/LA09).

FIRST Forums Now Open

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The answer is Gracious Professionalism. You need to enter the words Gracious Professionalism into the text box below that question in order to proceed.

Once you have completed the information, an e-mail verification notice will be sent to the email address entered. You must follow the link in this email to activate your forum account.

Early Release of Control System – Shipping Update

In order for teams to receive their control system early they must:


* indicate they would like to receive the control system early in TIMS;
* pay for their initial event and;
* provide FIRST with a valid FedEx or UPS shipping account number in TIMS.


Shipping is anticipated to start the last week of November, based upon availability. The control systems will be shipped via "Ground" service. Most teams will receive their shipments in 5 days or less and shipping costs will likely be $60 or under. You can calculate exact costs and times via online estimators from FedEx and UPS. The shipment will be leaving from Merrimack, NH (03054). It weighs approximately 60 lbs and is packaged in a box approximately 24" L x 16" W x 12" D.

Additional details on the early release can be found here:
http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=10856 (http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=10856)

Go Teams!

[Zflash]

"The shipment will be leaving from Merrimack, NH (03054). It weighs approximately 60 lbs and is packaged in a box approximately 24" L x 16" W x 12" D."

Does anyone know what will be included in the shipment, the 60 lbs seems awfully heavy. I could come up with my own conclusions that would justify this, however I would much rather know the true facts if someone else could verify it instead of speculating.

Thanks

[EricH]

"The shipment will be leaving from Merrimack, NH (03054). It weighs approximately 60 lbs and is packaged in a box approximately 24" L x 16" W x 12" D."

Does anyone know what will be included in the shipment, the 60 lbs seems awfully heavy. I could come up with my own conclusions that would justify this, however I would much rather know the true facts if someone else could verify it instead of speculating.

Thanks
It's about the size of a KOP box. The Beta Test teams got their equipment in one of those, IIRC. I don't remember what all goes in there, though there is a list on Bill's blog.

[Zflash]

1 FIRST specific cRIO
2 analog modules
2 analog bumpers
2 digital I/O modules
2 pneumatic bumpers
1 digital output sourcing module
1 power distribution board
1 driver station
1 wireless adapter set
1 camera
2 joysticks
assorted cables and connectors
a DVD of software that will be shipped by NI

Here is the list, I knew about this I just didn't think it would wiegh 60 lbs. Unless they ship the batteries with it so that rookie teams could power the system.

[Vikesrock]

1 FIRST specific cRIO
2 analog modules
2 analog bumpers
2 digital I/O modules
2 pneumatic bumpers
1 digital output sourcing module
1 power distribution board
1 driver station
1 wireless adapter set
1 camera
2 joysticks
assorted cables and connectors
a DVD of software that will be shipped by NI

Here is the list, I knew about this I just didn't think it would wiegh 60 lbs. Unless they ship the batteries with it so that rookie teams could power the system.

Going by the weights I can find for most of the hardware and some (very) generous allotments for the few things I can't find weights for, this hardware should weigh about 15lbs tops.

Even throwing 2 batteries in with a generous estimate of 15 lbs each should end up with 45 lbs.

What the heck is in this box? Could the box + packing materials possibly add to 15 lbs?

The weights for the cRIO, modules, and Distribution panel came from a seminar given by 1816, one of the beta test teams. Weights for the camera and wireless hardware came from data sheets. I gave the driver station .75 lbs, USB joysticks .4 lbs apiece and was still under 10 lbs before "assorted cables and connectors" and a DVD.

[Zflash]

1 FIRST specific cRIO 4
2 analog modules 2
2 analog bumpers 2
2 digital I/O modules 2
2 pneumatic bumpers 2
1 digital output sourcing module 1
1 power distribution board 2
1 driver station 1
1 wireless adapter set 1
1 camera 2
2 joysticks 2
assorted cables and connectors 1
a DVD of software that will be shipped by NI 0.5
batteries 30
Crate 4
Total 56.5

Packaging added to each device are why numbers are high, but this is what I got I guess it is fairly close.

[artdutra04]

They must have ran out of static proof bags, so everything was shipped in lead foil... :rolleyes:

[TestEngr571]

I don't see "digital sidecars" on anyone's list? :confused: With 2 digital modules you'd think we should get 2 digital sidecars to boot.

[Tom Line]

That would be the digital input / output.

Also, the "bumpers" are now "breakouts" if I remember correctly.

[Zflash]

They must have ran out of static proof bags, so everything was shipped in lead foil... :rolleyes:

1 FIRST specific cRIO (Chassis Only) 2
2 analog modules (including bumpers) 0.8
2 analog bumpers 0
2 digital I/O modules 0.6
2 pneumatic bumpers 0.8
1 digital output sourcing module 0.25
1 power distribution board 1.6
1 driver station 0.3
1 wireless adapter set 0.5
1 camera 0.39
2 joysticks 2
assorted cables and connectors 0.5
a DVD of software that will be shipped by NI 0.3
batteries (2) 27.64
Total 37.68

This was the conclusion I came to when I added it up I then added extra since these were approxiamate and to just try and justify a 60 lb shipping wieght. Obviously something substantial is missing from the list. All I am asking is does anyone actually know. It is pretty clear the answer is only the people sending it.

[Mark McLeod]

Bill's posted what Kate plans to include in the early control system shipment.
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/DRAFT%20CONTROLS%20KIT%20-%202009%20KoP%20Checklist%20%28110408%29.pdf (http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/DRAFT%20CONTROLS%20KIT%20-%202009%20KoP%20Checklist%20%28110408%29.pdf)
The screwdriver is a nice touch.

per the Bill's Blog:
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=15

[Madison]

Bill's posted what's to be included in the early control system shipment.
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/DRAFT%20CONTROLS%20KIT%20-%202009%20KoP%20Checklist%20%28110408%29.pdf
The screwdriver is a nice touch.

per the Bill's Blog:
http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=15

1 speed controller? :(

[Greg Needel]

1 speed controller? :(

1 victor, 4 jaguars

[Mark McLeod]

But 4 Jaguars to make up for the single victor.

P.S. Odd that the control kit includes 5' of red 14 awg wire but not black, while offering samples of both red & black 10awg.

[Madison]

But 4 Jaguars to makeup for the single victor.

Aha. Didn't see those. :)

I think we have enough Victors lying around to deal without the Jaguars for this season. Until their benefits are more useful to us, there's no use in taking such a big penalty for size and weight.

[Mark McLeod]

I think we have enough Victors lying around to deal without the Jaguars for this season. Until their benefits are more useful to us, there's no use in taking such a big penalty for size and weight.

I think that's a good idea also just to build up a stockpile of extra Jaguars for next year and use up the Victors that probably won't be permitted for 2010.

[TestEngr571]

Not using the new Jaguars? :confused: On the contrary ... the update rate and linearity make the Jaguar far superior :D to the Victor, despite the size/weight penalty. This will make low speed control much smoother ... less twitchy robots! :cool:

[Greg Needel]

Not using the new Jaguars? :confused: On the contrary ... the update rate and linearity make the Jaguar far superior :D to the Victor, despite the size/weight penalty. This will make low speed control much smoother ... less twitchy robots! :cool:

quite possibly, but until I see robot data to prove their advantage to victors we will be keeping victors on the robot. I am interested to see how the 60Amp amperage limitation holds up in a pushing match. Perhaps teams who build 2 robots can build one with jags and one with victors to see how they compare.

[Joe Ross]

The screwdriver is a nice touch.[/URL]

The screwdriver is specifically designed to operate the WAGO connectors on the Power Distribution Board.

[Joe Ross]

I am interested to see how the 60Amp amperage limitation holds up in a pushing match.

Realize that the 884's limit is 40amps continuous.

[AdamHeard]

Does anyone know if the batteries are remaining the same make and model?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I am interested to see how the 60Amp amperage limitation holds up in a pushing match.

60 Amps? I only saw up to 40 Amp resettable breakers in the kit. I doubt they will let the Jaguars run without a breaker so they will be limited to 40 amps.

[AdamHeard]

60 Amps? I only saw up to 40 Amp resettable breakers in the kit. I doubt they will let the Jaguars run without a breaker so they will be limited to 40 amps.

From my experience with speed controllers outside of FIRST, the "continuous limits" seem to be rated very differently from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Some will break from even very short periods of current significantly over their continuous limit.

My observations aren't very scientific, but I think it's a fair of Greg to wonder how the Jaguars will hold up to FIRST use; As far as I know, there is little to no data available on them being tested. Also, the Victors seemed to be substantially higher quality than similar lines of motor controllers; I hope this quality is mirrored in the Jaguars.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

From my experience with speed controllers outside of FIRST, the "continuous limits" seem to be rated very differently from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Some will break from even very short periods of current significantly over their continuous limit.

My observations aren't very scientific, but I think it's a fair of Greg to wonder how the Jaguars will hold up to FIRST use; As far as I know, there is little to no data available on them being tested. Also, the Victors seemed to be substantially higher quality than similar lines of motor controllers; I hope this quality is mirrored in the Jaguars.

Ah, I misinterpreted Gregs post as the Jaguars would be running at 60 amps continuous not the 'transients' that will (not might) exceed 60 amps.

And I agree that we shall see how well the Jaguars will hold up when the CIMs pull 130 amps at stall (until the breakers trip).