FIRST rule regarding team membership

[eagleslg]

Hey guys,
I remember reading a rule somewhere in the FIRST documentation saying that if your school does not have a FIRST team, you are allowed to join the team of another school and be an official member.

However, now that I am in this situation, i cannot find this rule to show our main team mentor, does anyone have any idea where it might be?
thanks in advance

[Billfred]

Hey guys,
I remember reading a rule somewhere in the FIRST documentation saying that if your school does not have a FIRST team, you are allowed to join the team of another school and be an official member.

However, now that I am in this situation, i cannot find this rule to show our main team mentor, does anyone have any idea where it might be?
thanks in advanceThe only documentation that I'm aware of is the criteria for rookie teams (http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=6632); beyond that, FIRST generally leaves matters of a team's composition to the team.

[KathieK]

I've never heard of that rule... Many teams are open to students from schools which don't have teams. Some schools limit membership to students from that school only. Check around and see what you can find.

[Blue_Mist]

It may depend on the school, since a friend of mine attends one high school which does have an FRC team, but does not allow freshmen or sophomores to join (it's an official class, meeting during class periods, etc.). As a result, she's currently on another team which is not from another school, but a girl scout troop. I'm not sure what she will do as a junior.

[EricH]

Billfred and Kathie are right. There is no FRC rule limiting team membership whatsoever. In fact, I know of a case where a student whose school had a FIRST team was on a different FIRST team.

There may, however, be rules on the individual team that prohibit people from outside the school. There may be rules allowing it. It's up to the team.

[gblake]

Billfred and Kathie are right. There is no FRC rule limiting team membership whatsoever. In fact, I know of a case where a student whose school had a FIRST team was on a different FIRST team.

There may, however, be rules on the individual team that prohibit people from outside the school. There may be rules allowing it. It's up to the team.There is an important mistaken assumption buried in the original poster's question.

Eagleslg - You appear to be assuming that FIRST FRC teams are only formed at schools, by schools; and that FIRST delegates to schools the authority to say which students are/aren't part of a team.

Schools have that sort of control over school-sponsored organizations; and if an FRC team is sponsored by a school, that school probably exerts some control over which students participate in the school-sponsored activity.

However FIRST is agnostic on the subject.

To the best of my knowledge, FRC teams may be formed by any (K-12) students and adults, any where. Pay the fee, have at least one student and one adult, and you have an FRC team. As far as FIRST is concerned, FRC teams may draw their student members from anywhere; and school-sponsorship or affiliation is not required (affiliating with a school is often very useful..., but it isn't required).

I personally look forward to the day when robotics competitions are popular enough for communities'/regions' non-school teams to become as plentiful as their school-based teams!

Blake

[EricH]

To the best of my knowledge, FRC teams may be formed by any (K-12) students and adults, any where. Pay the fee, have at least one student and one adult, and you have an FRC team. As far as FIRST is concerned, FRC teams may drawn their student members from anywhere; and school-sponsorship or affiliation is not required (affiliating with a school is often very useful..., but it isn't required).That is true--there are several 4-H teams and at least one Girl Scout team in FRC alone. I'm not sure how many other organizations sponsor a team, or how many teams aren't school-affiliated in FTC and FLL (and VRC).

Though it's actually three students and one adult. How else are you supposed to have a drive team? (Yes, the other two aren't required. They are, however, highly recommended.)

[Wetzel]

FRC is intended as a high school competition. It is not intended for, or safe, for K-6.

Wetzel

[gblake]

FRC is intended as a high school competition. It is not intended for, or safe, for K-6.

Wetzel
Reply #1

If young Mozart and Picasso offer to create theme music and artwork for your pit and presentation/exhibits, don't turn them away.

If young Gauss or young Maria Agnesi offer to help with the mathematics of your autonomous programming, don't turn them away.

There are many safe and rewarding ways for students of all stripes to benefit from FRC - without ever coming within 50 feet of a machine tool or FRC robot.

Reply #2

I know that saying that is it possible for any/all K-12 students to participate in FRC is 99.9999% a wild exaggeration. I am counting on the audience to understand the difference between possible and desirable.

What is more important is that I said that in an attempt to firmly drive home the point that FRC is not limited to school-sponsored teams whose students come from one and only one (high) school. My guess is that cracking that mental block would open the door to inspiring somewhere between 10 and 20% more students and/or starting up another 5% more teams.

Blake

[seraphim33]

i dont know where the rule is but i know it exists.... ive been on another schools team since ive been in first

[EricH]

i dont know where the rule is but i know it exists.... ive been on another schools team since ive been in first
Again, there is no rule. A team can be as inclusive or exclusive as they so desire.

I know of a team that for a year or two allowed 8th grade students onto the team. After that, the lower age limit moved back up to 9th grade.

FIRST does not care where the students come from that are on a team. They care more that there are students on a team, and maybe even how many there are.

[maltz1881]

Our team is a community based team. The local high school shut down the team ( principal was nutty) and the parents and kids wanted to continue. We are labeled as home schooled, but nobody on our team is home schooled. Almost everybody goes to that high school that shut us down.

Our school wouldnt allow us to take anybody from other schools but now we take everyone who wants to work and play hard.

[GaryVoshol]

The rule is (was) Pre-College Students. K-8 fits that rule. Obviously it would not be wise to field a team of 6-year-olds. But it wouldn't be against the rules.

[Matt382]

Again, there is no rule. A team can be as inclusive or exclusive as they so desire.

I know of a team that for a year or two allowed 8th grade students onto the team. After that, the lower age limit moved back up to 9th grade.

FIRST does not care where the students come from that are on a team. They care more that there are students on a team, and maybe even how many there are.

Actually I got on our team as an 8th grader because it was the first year our team started and they needed a few more kids interested. That year, our team got no support from our high school but we still included them in our team name. The year after that the age limit became 9th grade. Now that we managed to migrate into our high school, our principal is limiting our team to 10-12 grades because our high school is 10-12 and our 9th graders are at the middle school. We started a tech team for them this year.

[Gary Dillard]

From the FIRST website, under "How to start a team"

There is no typical or FIRST mandated team structure. FIRST does require each team to assign adults to the official team roles of Main, Alternate and Shipping Contact – other than that, you are free to structure your team as best suits you! Most teams comprise 25 students (there is no maximum) and can be made up of one or more high schools or youth organization(s). We also have home-schooled teams that compete.

So FIRST allows membership by organizations other than schools. However - from last year's robot rules

<R14> ROBOTS shall display their school name, and primary sponsor name and/or logo whenever the ROBOT is on the field (including practice sessions).

So if you don't have a school, what do you put on the robot? The school name is a required item on the inspection checklist. Also, if you have one student on the Downtown team from Crosstown high school, do you have to include Crosstown's name as well?

[gblake]

From the FIRST website, under "How to start a team"

So FIRST allows membership by organizations other than schools. However - from last year's robot rules

So if you don't have a school, what do you put on the robot? The school name is a required item on the inspection checklist. Also, if you have one student on the Downtown team from Crosstown high school, do you have to include Crosstown's name as well?Just write "Hard Knocks" or "None" on it and dare anyone to be un-GP enough to complain. ;)

Seriously, assuming a one-to-one relationship between schools and teams is a hard habit to shake, even for the folks who write and proof-read the rules.

Blake

[Carol]

So if you don't have a school, what do you put on the robot? The school name is a required item on the inspection checklist. Also, if you have one student on the Downtown team from Crosstown high school, do you have to include Crosstown's name as well?


MOE has never had a problem with that. We had students from 18 different high schools on last year's team and only put our major sponsors' names on the robot. I don't know what we put on our inspection checklist but again we have never had a problem passing inspection (at least for that - weight is another problem).

One slight correction. Since we formed a 501c3 umbrella corporation for the team, we have put the name of the corporation on the robot. (First State Robotics, Inc. - First State as in Delaware, not FIRST).

[Daniel_LaFleur]

So FIRST allows membership by organizations other than schools. However - from last year's robot rules



So if you don't have a school, what do you put on the robot? The school name is a required item on the inspection checklist. Also, if you have one student on the Downtown team from Crosstown high school, do you have to include Crosstown's name as well?

We don't have a school sponsor and we will be displaying our Youth group instead (4-H)

[wendymom]

We are also a 4-H team and said so on the robot. We also had a school sponsor us (even though we werent a "school" team, they gave us money) Their name went on the robot as well.

[Josh Murphy]

The only rule that I recall, if I am remembering right, is that one student can't be on two teams.

IE: If your school has two teams a student can only be a part of one at competitions.

You cant be a member on team #A then be a member on team #B at the same time.

I might be wrong but that came straight to my mind when I read the first post.

[eagleslg]

thanks guys, its a technicality for our mentor so i needed something in writing.

btw thats great that first isnt bound to schools, i believe in the future we will see community based competitions and organizations, after all, robotics is the future.

[cziggy343]

i have been a memeber of a team with a school that i dont go to for ten years now. my school (or at least my career center) is getting a team this year, but im still staying with team 343.

[cooker52]

Being part of these teams where we are community based (4-H) rather than school based is a really neat experience since we are able to allow everyone in, including home schoolers, and trust me, they have saved us more than once. But what's best about it is that we aren't limited to only teachers for mentors. We have mentors from all many of the companies and schools around our community, and some that drive a ways to get there.

The best thing is that we don't have to worry about students coming from 2 different schools and there isn't any rivalries that follow it. Everyone's is on the same level there.