View Full Version : Game Hint #1
ZInventor
05-12-2008, 14:20
also, did anyone notice that opah is used ALOT in crossword puzzles???
look at the puzzle clues...
-Z
ScottieDo555
05-12-2008, 14:24
shouldnt all of you be in class right now???
:D
OK I read about 12 pages of this thread and I see no reference to this. As I go thru google images for 'opah' I am finding french maps where sections have OPAH in front of the french words
https://www.mairie-marseille.fr/vdm/webdav/site/vdm/users/dgcre/public/urbanisme/Amelioration-habitat/Fichiers-images/opah2.jpg
I do not know what they mean in this context but maybe someone else does?
MikeReilly
05-12-2008, 14:25
It's obvious. Because the "moon" has lesser gravity, and the fish picture was seen on an Australian seafood website, it's an anti-gravity game. After all, there is less gravity on the moon, and gravity in Australia must be opposite of the U.S. since it's on the opposite side of the planet. I hear autonomous is a time-travel challenge.
In all seriousness, what was the purpose of the fish kite for last year's clue? Is it becoming some sick taunting from FIRST: "What kind of fish do we send them this time?"
Betty_Krocker
05-12-2008, 14:28
Don't know if anyone has any avid fishermen around but one of our mentors has mentioned that this is a form of "ribbon fish"...any thoughts?...
Yes I am, the Opah is a DEEP water fish caught in the Pacific with tuna. Its actually caught while fishing for tuna. Being loaners, they are VERY hard to track, locate and catch on their own... No idea how this relates, good job GDC...
It's obvious: We have to play a game of cards! (Go Fish!)
Okay, how about this: We have to "fish" for something over a barrier of some sort.
MikeReilly
05-12-2008, 14:32
Anyone remember the rumor from last year that the new location for Nationals will be Hawaii after Georgia. Hmm..., a Hawaiin fish...not just for breakfast anymore!
Betty_Krocker
05-12-2008, 14:35
Wow, not even 24 hrs and this post has over 250 replies...
Wayne Doenges
05-12-2008, 14:36
I can hear Dave Lavery telling his friends "Those students swallowed the 'hint' Hook, Line and Sinker" :D
Game On
SamCastelli
05-12-2008, 14:38
There are 2 layers of overlapping text. open the pic in paint, invert the colors, and you can make out some of it. there is a shark in the background. maybe 2 sharks. crank the brightness in paint, that helps.
Wow, not even 24 hrs and this post has over 250 replies...
yes I was surprised there were that few too. :)
You might have gotten that information faster if you had spent the time reading the thread instead of playing with the Gimp. :) I have the impression that what's on the other page is a channel catfish rather than a shark, but I don't think it's relevant.
I don't know if it is irrelevant or not, Dave is quite taken by 'Fish Boy' at the IRI competition, who belongs to team 1094, the Channel Cats!
MikeReilly
05-12-2008, 14:48
You have to ignore the writing on the picture. The Australian seafood site that it parallels/comes from has writing on most of the backgrounds. Fish used to be wrapped in newspaper a long time ago (and maybe still in some places).
However, because they were all consistent with having newsprint backgrounds, eliminate that. It should be very interesting if FIRST takes it down due to lack of permission, unless they do.... After all, there is a better picture on a Hawaiin fish site, with no background text. Hmm....back to the Australian tie, and possibly anti-gravity....
Akash Rastogi
05-12-2008, 14:51
Game will be called "Down Under"
ZInventor
05-12-2008, 14:53
i liked "feeding frenzy" better.....
There are NO layers.
Terrible
Anyone remember the rumor from last year that the new location for Nationals will be Hawaii after Georgia. Hmm..., a Hawaiin fish...not just for breakfast anymore!
Sorry ... they've already sent out the hotel registration information. It's in Atlanta again. :cool:
The image is too imprecise to provide any concrete and truthful information on the next year's competition.
In other words... chill out.
LeelandS
05-12-2008, 15:18
I've done a litte research and I believe it's a type of "silver dollar" fish accustomed to Tropical areas. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have any special characteristics that would make for an interesting game. They are peaceful but can be ravinous eaters, that are mostly herbivores, they are a salt water fish and not much else more interesting. If anyone can find anything, I'm sure we'd all be happy to know what. Good luck!
You have to ignore the writing on the picture. The Australian seafood site that it parallels/comes from has writing on most of the backgrounds. Fish used to be wrapped in newspaper a long time ago (and maybe still in some places).
However, because they were all consistent with having newsprint backgrounds, eliminate that. It should be very interesting if FIRST takes it down due to lack of permission, unless they do.... After all, there is a better picture on a Hawaiin fish site, with no background text. Hmm....back to the Australian tie, and possibly anti-gravity....
it's true that the writing may seem insignificant, but you also have to realize that the picture has been edited from its original form from that website. the file is nearly double the size, so i imagine that the text is rather important for the clue. i'm hoping someone posts a photoshop picture of it so we can all see the words.
JaneYoung
05-12-2008, 15:18
The hint does hold information, we just don't know what that information is.
And there may be other hints. They may be transparent enough to make connections or see connections with this one - then again - they may not be.
Some fun reads are the past official hint threads. For those who want to see how accurate the guesses/hints were and see how fast the threads grew - read them. It's great fun.
Edit: in the first few pages of this thread, a lot of the research was done regarding the fish, its habits, how it swims, what it eats, its different names, etc.
T3H_K3YM45T3R
05-12-2008, 15:21
I think that Dave might just get a jello game...I think that maybe they will put fish into different colored/shaped jello(s) and make you remove the fish from the jello or stack different shaped "jello(s)", also the deal with the vertical migration might lead to having to go up ramps like maybe a multi-platform arena.
Does it have something to do with cameras and driving "blind"...
This article is linked to the Wikipedia's Opah:
Discovering long distance migration and deep diving behavior for large pelagics in the central North Pacific with pop-up archival transmitting tags.
“These tags collect data on the depth and water temperature the fish occupies, and use light data to estimate the daily location of the fish based on day length and time of sunrise and sunset.”
Triple Strange
05-12-2008, 15:30
The exact image complete with the text can be found here: http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/images/fish/moonfish1.jpg
This means that FIRST didn't do anything. It might be something to note that the fish is not called Opah here but instead by the Australian reference a moonfish.
the non-image link is here:
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
it's true that the writing may seem insignificant, but you also have to realize that the picture has been edited from its original form from that website. the file is nearly double the size, so i imagine that the text is rather important for the clue. i'm hoping someone posts a photoshop picture of it so we can all see the words.
If you would have read the thread, you would found that the picture was taken directly from a different web site and is unaltered text and all.
ZInventor
05-12-2008, 15:35
If you would have read the thread, you would found that the picture was taken directly from a different web site and is unaltered text and all.
not directly...
as posted about 5 hrs ago... there's some other stuff in the code... including some odd looking XML
-Z
not directly...
as posted about 5 hrs ago... there's some other stuff in the code... including some odd looking XML
-Z
If you would have read about 24 hours ago you would see the reason for the different file size.
ZInventor
05-12-2008, 15:43
If you would have read about 24 hours ago you would see the reason for the different file size.
Yesterday, 12:57...
23H 48 MINS APRX
-Z
Herodotus
05-12-2008, 15:45
I have to agree with what was stated earlier about the details of the fish being unimportant. I think the actual clue aspect of the image is the name or the fact it is a fish in general, or both possibly.
Maybe there will be holes (like moon craters) that you have to "fish" the game piece out of. Otherwise I would just say the name is important, and there is an uneven, moon like playing field.
My last suggestion is that they don't have a game designed yet, and are just taking ideas from what we say about the clues.
ZInventor
05-12-2008, 16:01
shouldnt all of you be in class right now???
:D
we are in class...
we have laptops...
....
-Zeno
MikeMascaro
05-12-2008, 16:10
Maybe the sharks in the background represent the two alliances, and the fish just represents something they are both competing for? Some object?
Daniel_LaFleur
05-12-2008, 16:15
If you would have read the thread, you would found that the picture was taken directly from a different web site and is unaltered text and all.
But here's the real kicker. FIRST brought the picture into a photo editing program and changed the compression of the JPEG. Thus if they wanted to, they would have removed the background text (or if it had nothing to do with the game).
Thus, I believe, that the background text (be it the text itself, or the fact that it's there and/or it's backwards) was intentionally left there and is part of the hint.
MikeMascaro
05-12-2008, 16:17
So far we've only been able to read three words, "body" "deeply" and "forked/forced"
we aren't sure about the last one.
Elgin Clock
05-12-2008, 16:28
But here's the real kicker. FIRST brought the picture into a photo editing program and changed the compression of the JPEG. Thus if they wanted to, they would have removed the background text (or if it had nothing to do with the game).
Thus, I believe, that the background text (be it the text itself, or the fact that it's there and/or it's backwards) was intentionally left there and is part of the hint.
You can barely see (if even at all) any text in the original image on the FIRST website.
Bottom line, they probably didn't even know the text was there.
The basics of "Fish, Opah, & Moonfish" is the best clues we have to go on.
Zach226-PRLead
05-12-2008, 16:30
I still find it ironic that just a few days before this was posted. I posted in the "No way thats going to happen" thread and said, there is no way that first is going to have a game that involves water or having a robot swim/dive. but look at it now. I dont know what FIRST is brewing but it has my attention. I hope to god we dont have to waterproof our electronics... otherwise every team will need spare.... EVERYTHING. LOL
MikeMascaro
05-12-2008, 16:31
What about the sharks in the background? Those are visible.
MikeMascaro
05-12-2008, 16:32
I still find it ironic that just a few days before this was posted. I posted in the "No way thats going to happen" thread and said, there is no way that first is going to have a game that involves water or having a robot swim/dive. but look at it now. I dont know what FIRST is brewing but it has my attention. I hope to god we dont have to waterproof our electronics... otherwise every team will need spare.... EVERYTHING. LOL
There's no way it can be an underwater competition. I doubt FIRST could even afford to build the fields. And it would make it much harder for the teams so FIRST would actually lose teams rather then gain them. Not what they want.
Alan Anderson
05-12-2008, 16:34
So far we've only been able to read three words, "body" "deeply" and "forked/forced"
we aren't sure about the last one.
I am sure about it. It says "deeply forked tail" (a description I find in reference to channel catfish, which also approximately match the ghostly image of the fish which we assume is on the other side of the page). Other words I see clearly are "covered" and "dorsal fin", and I think the word before "dorsal" is "lobed".
I'm also pretty confident that the words are completely incidental to the fact that it's a picture of a moonfish.
Zach226-PRLead
05-12-2008, 16:35
There's no way it can be an underwater competition. I doubt FIRST could even afford to build the fields. And it would make it much harder for the teams so FIRST would actually lose teams rather then gain them. Not what they want.
Very true. I know that it would be an impossible task. Im just sayin... knowing FIRST they have some wacky ideas, im not putting it past them. Heck it does not cost that much to fill a regular sized arena with like 6" of water. im not saying submerged, or maybe there are "pools" on the field. I know i sound nuts, but i like to think that im just as eccentric as all the FIRST folks!:yikes:
Elgin Clock
05-12-2008, 16:37
What about the sharks in the background? Those are visible.
Not in the original picture found here:
http://usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=11310
My point is, the original picture shows a fish... one we have established as an Opah, or a moonfish. That's all we have to go on as far as I'm concerned.
But then again.. who knows?? Maybe I'm wrong.
It's only a picture, & nothing to get all worked up about.
Me personally, I'm waiting for the next clue.
MikeMascaro
05-12-2008, 16:39
Not in the original picture found here:
http://usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=11310
My point is, the original picture shows a fish... one we have established as an Opah, or a moonfish. That's all we have to go on as far as I'm concerned.
But then again.. who knows?? Maybe I'm wrong.
It's only a picture, & nothing to get all worked up about.
Me personally, I'm waiting for the next clue.
They're in the original, behind the picture of a fish. or they could be a channel catfish, if the text is at all relevant, the image looks fairly close I guess. I'm not a fish person.
synth3tk
05-12-2008, 16:39
The image is too imprecise to provide any concrete and truthful information on the next year's competition.
In other words... chill out.
If a tree falls and no one's around to hear it..................
[...]
Thus, I believe, that the background text (be it the text itself, or the fact that it's there and/or it's backwards) was intentionally left there and is part of the hint.
Although this is FIRST, so they could have left it in there to throw us off (as it seems to have done already). Or, maybe they figured that taking out the text is a waste of time.
Andrew Schreiber
05-12-2008, 16:41
Just to play off the forked them a little more, let us think in the terms of roads, pairing this with the vertical migrations mentioned countless times we could predict that there will be multiple potential paths, or ways to play the game.
And to further discredit the text, I couldn't even see it on the picture. I saw blue lines but I blamed my monitor for that. It is conceivable that they didn't even notice the text. Now, as for why they would open it in Photoshop, I have no ideas on that.
Bethany Mc.
05-12-2008, 16:49
OK so I googled "Lampris guttatus" and found that it is Swedish and lampris means glossy and guttatus is spotted I looked at this one site its was in Swedish so i went to the Google translator and pasted the site into translate web sitehttp://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhem.passagen.se%2Fkent.an dersson%2Fglansfisk.htm&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhem.passagen.se%2Fkent.an dersson%2Fglansfisk.htm&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8). It gives some information on this fish. It is also known as a Opah or moonfish.
edit: the word is not Swedish sorry, but I found this site and it has a picture of the fish next to a guy it is huge!!It also talks about how the meat of the fish tastes. Take a look at this it gives some perspective. I know if i saw this fish in the water i would freak out!
Elgin Clock
05-12-2008, 16:50
/me wonders how this fish would taste with some "good creole sauce... on a nice bed of dirty rice".:rolleyes:
Obviously it MUST taste better than some Converse All Stars with the same treatment.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=778415&postcount=49
whlspacedude
05-12-2008, 16:53
Well i hate to tell you but....
Opah (also known colloquially as moonfish, sunfish, kingfish, redfin ocean pan, and Jerusalem haddock)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opah
So I hate to ruin all the fun but.. There seems to be a lot of focus on the term "moonfish". I would suggest a more broader approach to the name of the fish when relating it to the future game.
Just a suggestion.:cool:
Carry on.
JaneYoung
05-12-2008, 16:53
Very true. I know that it would be an impossible task. Im just sayin... knowing FIRST they have some wacky ideas, im not putting it past them. Heck it does not cost that much to fill a regular sized arena with like 6" of water. im not saying submerged, or maybe there are "pools" on the field. I know i sound nuts, but i like to think that im just as eccentric as all the FIRST folks!:yikes:
The FIRST folks design an FRC game for the season. With that game comes constraints many of us never think about.
Just a few that come to mind are:
- the budgets of the different regionals
- each venue's restrictions/rules
- each vendor's capabilities and generosity
- the current technological capabilities
- the different areas of the world and what all the teams can readily access (an example would be pool noodles used for bumpers. There are posts here in CD regarding the difficulty in obtaining those for some. That's just one example.)
What may appear as wacky or eccentric is far from. The games are given intense scrutiny, dealing with things many of us have never thought of, as I said. They are also created by brilliant minds. In this case, these brilliant minds are focused on serving all of the FRC teams and giving them a game to enjoy and to challenge them. It's fun to joke and tease but it's also good to be aware of the amount of work and effort that goes into this, including these hints.
rogerlsmith
05-12-2008, 16:56
Yes, this fish has lots of names. But.... If you go to google images and search for moonfish, the first image you get is the one FIRST used.
I kinda think "they" google-imaged moonfish and that's what they got.
EricVanWyk
05-12-2008, 16:58
Does anyone remember the "600,000 hours" speech from kickoff last year? This clue hunt seems to fall into that category very nicely. I don't want to Godwin the thread, but no one has mentioned Paris Spears or Britney Hilton yet.
PS: Was it 600k and last year? My brain always fuzzes details like "time" or "order of magnitude".
RoboKid1566
05-12-2008, 17:05
I am working on it now, I started by looking at the meta data for the photo. I don't think the text will tell us anything except a clue to what book this was scanned out of.
Anyone know what kind of fish this is?
its a parana!!!!! i think... we all think its a parana...haha:yikes:
Clourchn07
05-12-2008, 17:12
I think it is definitely some sort of odd surface, like a lunar bumpy surface or a tilting ramp, or multi platforms!!
also i agree with the no prebuild!!!
JaneYoung
05-12-2008, 17:33
I don't want to Godwin the thread, but no one has mentioned Paris Spears or Britney Hilton yet.
? You lost me on this one.
Nin_estarSaerah
05-12-2008, 17:38
OK so I googled "Lampris guttatus" and found that it is Swedish and lampris means glossy and guttatus is spotted I looked at this one sitehttp://hem.passagen.se/kent.andersson/glansfisk.htm and its in Swedish so i went to the Google translator and pasted the site into translate web site. It gives some information on this fish. It is also known as a Opah or moonfish.
Its greek and latin, like most scientific names, not Swedish. Brilliant/clear and speckled/spotted.
synth3tk
05-12-2008, 17:41
? You lost me on this one.
You're not the only one...
And I wouldn't know if the "600,000" speech was last year, because frankly, I doze in-and-out of the speech sections every year. :rolleyes:
surferacf
05-12-2008, 17:43
My serious thoughts: Moon fish is an allusion to the playing field being somewhat lunar; rocks, craters, etc... (Not real, of course, but some sort of wood/PVC concoctions). I can imagine TPTB wanting to give the game some sort of potential real world application (or would lunar exploration be out-of-this-world?) Additionally, after years of building drivetrains, we're all pretty comfortable with throwing one together that functions on level ground. They're mixing things up with the cRIO instead of the IFI this year, so who's to say that they're not contimuing this trend?
My optimistic, yet completely unrealistic thoughts: "Opah" is a homonym of "Opa!". This year's challenge will involve flaming cheese.
rilesmitch
05-12-2008, 17:53
Lampris in latin is torch :)
torch to me meens flashlight (British)
that could be the code
or
lamp + fish = angle fish?
or
lampris gut at us (latin)
torch neck but foreign (english) ?????????
Culvan Van Li
05-12-2008, 18:01
i found something.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Lancetfish
You can get some of the words out of it in the correct order.
For what it is worth the original image seems to be copyrighted by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industial Research Organisation (CSIRO) of Australia. Go to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearch/caab_search.caab_report?spcode=37268001 and click the little “image info” link under our new favorite photo at the top of the page. It should take you to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearch/caab_search.image_details?ref=37268001a-t.jpg with the copyright info.
I don't think we should get too hung up on the background bleedthrough words and image. It doesn't look like FIRST scanned this image in or even modified the pixels in the image. It looks like the picture was scanned in and the scanner was sensitive enough to pickup the next page. I'm guessing this was a book of fishes that were listed in alphabetical order. The next fish appears to be the Lancetfish, just after our Lampris Guttatus. If you look at the picture of the Lancetfish is does seem to match up with the sillouette in the clue.
I'm guessing the take away here is either the word moon or fish. I think we can toss the fish part as Dave's way of having fun with us and safely say focus on the moon. That's just my $.02.
Andy
EricVanWyk
05-12-2008, 18:02
? You lost me on this one.
Sorry, my brain is completely fried.
During one of the kickoffs, there was an interesting speech about how a typical FIRST season requires about 600,000 hours of thought, not one of which will be spent on pop culture drivel.
I was trying to estimate the brain-hours spent on marine biology so far. Again, none of these hours were spent on pop culture drivel.
Nothing to see here, dead brain walking, move along...
completly ramdom but if you go to this website you can see how big these fish really are.:ahh:
http://www.mexfish.com/fish/opah/opah.htm
Wayne C.
05-12-2008, 18:20
all these fish clues = icthyology
icthyology sounds like "icky"
maybe that truly describes what we are headed for....
Of course the fish clues might point to the continuing destruction of the world's oceans and reflect a need for conservation and preservation of the polar ice caps
At least one thing we can say for FIRST is that it got a bunch of robonerds to learn something about obscure fish species on a large scale.
OK- I'm fin'ished
JaneYoung
05-12-2008, 18:26
Sorry, my brain is completely fried.
During one of the kickoffs, there was an interesting speech about how a typical FIRST season requires about 600,000 hours of thought, not one of which will be spent on pop culture drivel.
I was trying to estimate the brain-hours spent on marine biology so far. Again, none of these hours were spent on pop culture drivel.
Nothing to see here, dead brain walking, move along...
Oh, I got that part.
Dave is the one who usually mentions Paris Hilton but he usually doesn't post in the hint thread.
So, if he doesn't post, that lowers the chances of the mention of Ms. Hilton or the other one. Which is a good thing.
I'd rather talk about the 600,000 hours of thought/brain power...even fried brain power.
Rock on, Eric.
Mr. C - even I couldn't make puns that bad. Really.
Dryice101
05-12-2008, 18:56
Has anybody ever thought to look at this page...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V1P-4GWBDSB-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=3cb8cab2a87623fdf896d5f5a3b3b64f
It talks about the Opah, the name of the fish, being an engineering software for small hydropower plants...
Daniel_LaFleur
05-12-2008, 18:58
Although this is FIRST, so they could have left it in there to throw us off (as it seems to have done already). Or, maybe they figured that taking out the text is a waste of time.
In this you'll get no argument from me. I just find it odd that they'd leave the backwards text in.
Personally I think the moonfish is a reference that there will be multiple levels.
Moon is high in the sky
Fish dive deep into the ocean
Another reason for my belief is that they were touting the shock rating of the cRIO when they were introducing it.
Dryice101
05-12-2008, 19:03
The picture was obviously scaned from a book, that expains the backwards text and the shadows in the background. As of what i know, the text is just a description of the opah, because it is just a book. If you wanted to get technical, you could find the book they scanned it from, which would be pointless.
Bierwagen2449
05-12-2008, 19:21
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
After looking at the moon fish on this page I saw that it said 30-50 kgs might mean 30-50lbs or lead to some wieght.
Amehrotra
05-12-2008, 19:38
They are most certainly NOT the same size.
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~hill13/same.PNG
The images do look the same but sure most probably are not because the Clue could have a message encrypted into it like Greg Needel said.
We should try to decrypt the message inside this image using some software, i might work on that when i have the time.
Nin_estarSaerah
05-12-2008, 19:40
It has been noted in the FRC game in 2009 thread that the fish is not in the water, its a fish out of water. significant? probably not. interesting to note and mull over? Indeed.
Okay, I've read over 300 posts about clue #1 and I don't have a clue. I like some of the ideas, particularly the suggested names for the competition ("Shoot for the Moon", "Feeding Frenzy"), but also a "lunar" playing field, or having robots "scale" an obstacle.
As a practicing engineer, I have to say that while FIRST does expose students to some real aspects of engineering, most of my days at work aren't as fun as the intensity of build season.
Maybe my employer could take a lesson from FIRST: "We're reorganizing. We aren't ready to reveal the new organizational structure, but you can find clue #1 on the internal website..." :-)
Amehrotra
05-12-2008, 19:41
There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.
****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.
so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.
can you direct me to finding the decrypting software? and did you try the password Red_herring like squirrel recommended?
synth3tk
05-12-2008, 19:46
I tried Red_herring in every possible combination. No luck.... :(
Amehrotra
05-12-2008, 19:58
what about luna fish or moon fish
and how did you try this, this kind of stuff interests me so just wondering how you did this?
Daniel_LaFleur
05-12-2008, 19:59
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
After looking at the moon fish on this page I saw that it said 30-50 kgs might mean 30-50lbs or lead to some wieght.
50 Kg = 110 Lbs.
Maybe we're pulling up 110 lb weights :ahh:
Maybe we're pulling up 110 lb weights :ahh:
Hmmm, maybe we have to join with other alliance robots to pull a 110lb fish out of a hole.
synth3tk
05-12-2008, 20:05
Hmmm, maybe we have to join with other alliance robots to pull a 110lb fish out of a hole.
Maybe our robots, themselves, will have to weigh 110lbs.
Just saved with a different level of JPEG compression. Same file.
Visually, the difference between the two pictures is zero - and I don't mean look at and guess, I mean open 'em up on MATLAB¹, subtract one from another and notice that the result is a black image.
Of course LCD screens aren't very good with blacks, so you analyze the difference in the RGB pixel level and notice that yes, there are subtle near-black values. Probably due to the different compression, but still... Definitely not enough difference to start a conspiracy theory. A FIRST GDC moonfish² is an Australian buy-your-online moonfish is a moonfish.
¹ - Yes, engineers analyze their images with MATLAB. Photoshop is for wusses. :P
² - Remove that extra fin and you have a Brazilian piranha, as someone mentioned above.
Maybe our robots, themselves, will have to weigh 110lbs.
I dunno... I don't think they're gonna be lowering the weight since the new control system is heavier... but who knows, they might!
As for the page from the book, I don't think anything on the opposite page will help much... but if we find out which book it came from, then that might be a useful hint... or it could be nonsense all together!! haha!
MC_FALCON_842
05-12-2008, 20:15
Morphology?, could that mean that some part of the field might change throughout the match, like between modes or something.
I've seen a lot of the arguments about the significance of the Opah and this is the first one that's so simple but it just might work!:rolleyes:
Maybe you have to build your robot to adapt to the different changes that might be presented on the field?... Morphology...? makes sense. I think :confused:
JaneYoung
05-12-2008, 20:16
² - Remove that extra fin and you have a Brazilian piranha, as someone mentioned above.
oh goodie...
jk.weiss
05-12-2008, 20:32
This is the longest thread ever. There are so many amazing ideas that there is no way of even choosing one until there is another clue.
I'm liking the Opah simming in deep water and the underwater mountain stuff. Although, there won't be water.
One robot will be down in a "hole", out of site from us. This robot will have to use the camera to detect the colors of gamepieces to give to their team members above. (The Opah has 4 different colors on its 4 types of skin.)
I can't wait till the next clue. This researching of a stupid fish is fun...lol =)
GaryVoshol
05-12-2008, 20:53
Remove that extra fin and you have a Brazilian piranha, as someone mentioned above.Except piranha, thank goodness, don't get up to 30-50 kg.
whlspacedude
05-12-2008, 21:11
Just some info i dug up.
Opah, a colorful marine fish found in open waters. Although not abundant, opahs are found in almost all seas. Opahs range in length from about 3 to 6 feet (.9 to 1.8 m) and weigh from 50 to 400 pounds (23 to 180 kg) or more. The body is oval and compressed from side to side. Opahs are grayish above shading to rose underneath, and are marked with white spots. The jaws, fins, and tail are red and the eyes are ringed with gold. The flesh, which is considered excellent food, is also red.
The opah is sometimes also called moonfish.
The opah is Lampris regius, the only member of the family Lamprididae, or Lampridae.
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/fish/opah-info.htm
There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.
****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.
so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.
In my opinions this was just a fish picture scanned from a book with very thin paper so the words are backwards because they are on next page. Onion skin paper and <40gsm paper like bible paper is common for big dictionary like books.
Nin_estarSaerah
05-12-2008, 21:16
Not to be mean or rude, but please, people, we all know what kind of fish it is, for the sake of space, and the people that actually do read the entire thread before posting, let your post be at least somewhat relevant or perhaps entertaining before you post. The source of the picture and the words behind it has also been found, feel free to deliberate your opinion on the relevance of the wording and the source, but we don't all need to say "The words are backwards, I think it's from a book."
the other name found for this moon fish is
Lampris regius
an anagram of this name yields;
Realism Grip Us
since most of us reading this thread have lost our grip on reality, this possibly does not apply to the clue!
:o
skimoose
05-12-2008, 21:37
Time to go in another direction. The clue is a picture of a moonfish, less specifically a fish.
No one has mentioned that the term "fish" is used by the Navy as slang for a torpedo.
"Fish" is also slang used by civilian treasure hunters and geoscientists to refer to a towed sensor such as a magnatometer or side scan sonar. Both of which are often used to locate sunken ships which might have been sunk by torpedos.
Originally, torpedos were not the propelled ordinance they are today, but were simply sea mines.
Sea mines often have magnet detonators.
Mine clearing operations are an excellent task for robots.
Mines are also a source of treasure.
A torpedo is also a type of short level often used to level or plumb conduit.
Maybe these are all just Red Herrings, but word association can be beneficial. :rolleyes:
Hmm...this has to be one of the weirdest and probably one of the farthest away from the intention of the hint, but I'll thr
Everyone knows about Dave's "hints." Someone mentioned a while ago that the Opah is sometimes known as the "King of Herrings." Red Herrings...Dave's hints...Dave's herrings...could this be a ploy to get us to actually dissect his signature? Maybe he WAS actually dropping hints, we just didn't realize it. I haven't been watching Dave's signature too much, but based on what I saw posted earlier about Six, Five, and Four...Six and five are mentioned in the quote that he has up there (woot, superfluous adjectives), and four..."To the four: awaiting a few more.".
...I'm just going to stop now, that's not it. You know you've gone crazy over a game hint when you analyze every word in Dave's signature. :rolleyes: Although it may point to him somehow, it's not in that way.
Though...moonfish...Phoenix/Mars...NASA...Outer space, anyone?
I'm fairly sure that it has to do with the fish itself. It's the fish and not some other object that could embody the same hint but would be more obvious. Like last year, with the tortoise and the hare referring to a race...if they wanted to make a race game obvious, they could have easily given us the coords for something NASCAR-related.
So the Opah might have some quality that other things obviously have...the GDC just didn't want to make it too apparent.
I can't wait for the next hint; we might be able to start piecing things together.
SamCastelli
05-12-2008, 21:44
there is obviously text in the background. even more obviously if you invert the colors, the question is how to read it, i think there are multiple layers of overlapping text. i don't think this is from the paper the book is scanned from, i don't think the pic was scanned at all, there is the exact same image online at other sites without the text in the background, FIRST wouldn't allow text in the background unless the book its from is a clue, so the text must be some sort of clue, along with whatever the watermark looking thing behind the fish, which may or may not be a shark, it has the right shape from what i can see. so, how do we read the invisible text, and is the hypothetical shark important? ideas?
The_Fons
05-12-2008, 21:50
I didn't read this whole thread but has anyone wondered why the fish is on paper or whatever the background is (aka out of water)? I don't think it matters what kind of paper the fish is on, or what fish it becomes if you remove one of its fins. Some of you are grasping for straws. really.
I sort of agree with Sam, but how to go about reading it is beyond me. I've tried a number of image sharpening methods in PS to no avail...
Also, I know of a method to store files within images. I'm trying to reverse it right now.
EDIT: Nope, nothing's being stored inside of the image.
roboticWanderor
05-12-2008, 21:54
The GDC obviously did a Google images search for "moonfish" and took the first image that showed up. This must have been on purpose. The question is why?
A quick Google search for "moon fish" turns up this: http://www.moonfishocean.com/ right away. Apparently "moon, fish, ocean" is the new zen version of "rock, paper, scissors". :ahh:
From the website:
"Zen Masters use the game as a test of a disciple’s reflexes and non-attachment to outcomes. The Master holds a pebble in his palm. The pebble remains hidden when the Master plays “Moon” or “Fish.” It is revealed only when the Master plays “Ocean.” If the disciple can snatch the pebble quickly enough, he automatically wins the round."
Sounds like we will be somehow playing "rock, paper, scissors" with robots and trying to steal something from the opposing alliance. Still 3v3. One "master" robot holds/guards a special game piece while the other 2 "disciple robots" try to steal the game piece from the opposing alliance for major bonus points. Maybe like 2006 with offensive and defensive periods of 2v3 or something.
This is the best idea i have read on here, i think everyone else is WAYYY over-analyzing it.
it's rock, paper, scissors, style game play. balanced, fun, and allows for variety in robot designs, something many FIRST games try to achieve, mostly the balanced but separate play styles. and i really like the "snatching" mechanic, although it would give crab drive huge advantage if trying to avoid the "snatching" of a game piece away from it's control.
So when kickoff rolls around, cant say i didn't call it.:D
TheMuses<3
05-12-2008, 22:00
I see the text too. HOWEVER, if you look behind the fish when you tilt the monitor, you see another outline of a fish. I suspect that this was just scanned in from a book and the text that we are seeing is just from the page behind it. Another reason for this is that the text is unintelligible - it's backwards or rotated somehow. So... I don't actually think the hint is in the text.
synth3tk
05-12-2008, 22:00
Not to be mean or rude, but please, people, we all know what kind of fish it is, for the sake of space, and the people that actually do read the entire thread before posting, let your post be at least somewhat relevant or perhaps entertaining before you post. The source of the picture and the words behind it has also been found, feel free to deliberate your opinion on the relevance of the wording and the source, but we don't all need to say "The words are backwards, I think it's from a book."
I second this emotion.
We all know it's from a book, there's a shark in the background, the words are backwards, it's a moonfish. I keep coming back to the thread only to re-read the same thing concluded earlier in the thread, except reworded.
There is a "Search Thread" function near the top of the page...
Wanderor, that's the fun of the game hints. Over-analyzing it until our little brains can't take it anymore. Then the GDC releases #2.... :D
mrbob1000
05-12-2008, 22:20
Time to go in another direction. The clue is a picture of a moonfish, less specifically a fish.
No one has mentioned that the term "fish" is used by the Navy as slang for a torpedo.
"Fish" is also slang used by civilian treasure hunters and geoscientists to refer to a towed sensor such as a magnatometer or side scan sonar. Both of which are often used to locate sunken ships which might have been sunk by torpedos.
Originally, torpedos were not the propelled ordinance they are today, but were simply sea mines.
Sea mines often have magnet detonators.
Mine clearing operations are an excellent task for robots.
Mines are also a source of treasure.
A torpedo is also a type of short level often used to level or plumb conduit.
Maybe these are all just Red Herrings, but word association can be beneficial. :rolleyes:
Im going to go out on a wild guess here but since there is a camera this year, we could be operating only off the camera. Expecially with the new and more advanced control system this could be used.
skimoose
05-12-2008, 22:22
How about this Google find the FISH! philosophy (http://www.charthouse.com/content.aspx?name=home2) further explained here (http://www.charthouse.com/content.aspx?nodeid=1066).
Fish is also slang in the drilling industry (http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com/Display.cfm?Term=fish).
Or the SMS dictionary (http://www.smsdictionary.co.uk/index.html?p=e&q=FISH) FISH "First in still here"
gotta love Red Herring! :p
So here's my thought...
The watermark may have no significance BUT you must flip the image horizontally 180*. Now the Opah is mainly found in the open ocean waters of the Mediterranean Sea. If we go East or west 180 degrees from this landmark we land in the Bermuda Triangle.:yikes:
Jane Young pointed out earlier of a lines making up a triangle on the fish.
This could possibly be the game piece shape or what not...
But if we consider the Bermuda Triangle it leads us down another path. The triangle is known for disappearing ships. The fish represents these ships because it has fins shaped like sails. The name of the fish is the moonfish correlating with night and ocean.
NASA has also been doing some lunar exploration recently which could correspond with the new camera system.
Maybe there's a giant dome in the center of the field which robots can go into to find certain objects. the objects can't be seen because the dome is blackened out. The only way to recognize the object are by small blinking lights. Blinking because of the disappearing ships. Is anybody following me here....?:ahh:
Rickertsen2
05-12-2008, 22:31
Game hints become less and less useful every year
Ok, I'm thinking that this hint is about the Feild design specificly. What I;m thinking(Combines several idea's thrown out here) is that we have some sort of wet or otherwise slippery surface with a ramp that leads to a raised platform. This raised platform has the game peices on it(whatever that may be). The ramp has a moving mechanism attached to it that is constantly moving(down to 0 degree's and up to the point that it touches the raised platform). Each allience can only have one robot up on the platform at any given time. The goal of that robot is to throw down the game peices so that the other members of that robots allience can do something with them.
Maybe, but I'm kind of going off on a tangent.
robonerd13
05-12-2008, 22:36
As stated here - http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
Lampris guttatus weights between 30-50kgs. 50kgs -> 110lbs, NEW WEIGHT LIMIT?? :yikes:
I talked to the mentor of my team and he said that because of OSHA restrictions the weight limit cannot go up because tight now it is what it is because we only have to wear goggles in the pits and on the field...if they were to make it more they would have to up the safety restrictions...one of my fellow team members suggested body armor...lol :ahh:
mrbob1000
05-12-2008, 22:46
So here's my thought...
The watermark may have no significance BUT you must flip the image horizontally 180*. Now the Opah is mainly found in the open ocean waters of the Mediterranean Sea. If we go East or west 180 degrees from this landmark we land in the Bermuda Triangle.:yikes:
Jane Young pointed out earlier of a lines making up a triangle on the fish.
This could possibly be the game piece shape or what not...
But if we consider the Bermuda Triangle it leads us down another path. The triangle is known for disappearing ships. The fish represents these ships because it has fins shaped like sails. The name of the fish is the moonfish correlating with night and ocean.
NASA has also been doing some lunar exploration recently which could correspond with the new camera system.
Maybe there's a giant dome in the center of the field which robots can go into to find certain objects. the objects can't be seen because the dome is blackened out. The only way to recognize the object are by small blinking lights. Blinking because of the disappearing ships. Is anybody following me here....?:ahh:
I cant remember what game the word "diabolical" was a hint for but i remeber somone on my team hearing somone in first say "diabolical" at a dinner.
i may be off on a long shot but could this perhaps be that we might be similar to that game this year?
Akash Rastogi
05-12-2008, 22:53
I cant remember what game the word "diabolical" was a hint for but i remeber somone on my team hearing somone in first say "diabolical" at a dinner.
i may be off on a long shot but could this perhaps be that we might be similar to that game this year?
Diabolical Dynamics?
I cant remember what game the word "diabolical" was a hint for but i remeber somone on my team hearing somone in first say "diabolical" at a dinner.
i may be off on a long shot but could this perhaps be that we might be similar to that game this year?Diabolical Dynamics, 2001. 4v0, the faster you get done the bigger your multiplier. Balance two goals on a bridge, preferably filled with balls. If your color ball was on top of the goal, you got extra points.
I doubt that the xv0 format will come around again (2 matches in the eliminations for each alliance), but maybe other elements will (the bridge, for example).
The one thing that seems to be constant:
There will be "terrain" on the field. What type, I don't know. Could be a different surface, raised area(s), or a combination of the above.
mrbob1000
05-12-2008, 22:59
Diabolical Dynamics, 2001. 4v0, the faster you get done the bigger your multiplier. Balance two goals on a bridge, preferably filled with balls. If your color ball was on top of the goal, you got extra points.
I doubt that the xv0 format will come around again (2 matches in the eliminations for each alliance), but maybe other elements will (the bridge, for example).
The one thing that seems to be constant:
There will be "terrain" on the field. What type, I don't know. Could be a different surface, raised area(s), or a combination of the above.
almost rocky? thats one of the ideas one of my friends pitched out there.
and wasnt the field split in 2 halves with a wall?
I've been thinking...
Is Opah the acronym for the name of the game?
(can't think of anything clever for that, sorry)
Just some info i dug up.
Opah, a colorful marine fish found in open waters. Although not abundant, opahs are found in almost all seas. Opahs range in length from about 3 to 6 feet (.9 to 1.8 m) and weigh from 50 to 400 pounds (23 to 180 kg) or more. The body is oval and compressed from side to side. Opahs are grayish above shading to rose underneath, and are marked with white spots. The jaws, fins, and tail are red and the eyes are ringed with gold. The flesh, which is considered excellent food, is also red.
The opah is sometimes also called moonfish.
The opah is Lampris regius, the only member of the family Lamprididae, or Lampridae.
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/fish/opah-info.htm
perhaps our alliances weight will total a maximum of 400 pounds.. or close to that.. who knows.
mrbob1000
05-12-2008, 23:03
I've been thinking...
Is Opah the acronym for the name of the game?
(can't think of anything clever for that, sorry)
could be. 4 letters is perfectly reasonable. the main issue is, what could it stand for?
could the field be an oval this year? the opah might be the shape we are looking for.
im going to see where words take me opah, moonfish, full moon, warewolfs, superstition. superstition could be part of the name of the game.
wikipedia says opah are solitary but sometimes school with tuna, it also says other names are , kingfish, redfin ocean pan, and Jerusalem haddock
almost rocky? thats one of the ideas one of my friends pitched out there.
and wasnt the field split in 2 halves with a wall?Yes and no. There was a beam of wood running across midfield with a pipe above it at normal side rail height.The only place this didn't exist was right in the center, where the balancing bridge was.
Some teams ignored the bridge that year and went through the barrier. (Legal tactic)
I don't know or care if it's been said before, I'm too lazy to read through pages upon pages of speculation:
"Moonfish" refers to several different fish, not just this Opah.
Interestingly enough, I found that Moonfish is another name for both an Atlantic Spadefish and a Diamondfish.
Spades? Diamonds?
This year's game is robo poker. Problem solved.
Ok, I'm thinking that this hint is about the Feild design specificly. What I;m thinking(Combines several idea's thrown out here) is that we have some sort of wet or otherwise slippery surface with a ramp that leads to a raised platform. This raised platform has the game peices on it(whatever that may be). The ramp has a moving mechanism attached to it that is constantly moving(down to 0 degree's and up to the point that it touches the raised platform). Each allience can only have one robot up on the platform at any given time. The goal of that robot is to throw down the game peices so that the other members of that robots allience can do something with them.
Maybe, but I'm kind of going off on a tangent.
I totally agree, this is what i was thinking. The degree of the ramp will be 32 degrees. This angle was mentioned before. So it means that this year you might need a lot of traction and the bot needs to be robustly built (more than last year)
Applepwns
05-12-2008, 23:40
Well this is a random hint haha, fish?
I can see the text aswell but I can't make it out.
~Justin
I don't know if this was discussed, but I was looking up the Moonfish and there are seems to be a couple sound programs with the same name. Like there's an audio tracker program named moonfish and a combination tracker/groovebox named moonfish. I know it's a long shot, but what about detecting a sound or using sound to find something we can't see? Does the camera have a microphone?
I don't know if this was discussed, but I was looking up the Moonfish and there are seems to be a couple sound programs with the same name. Like there's an audio tracker program named moonfish and a combination tracker/groovebox named moonfish. I know it's a long shot, but what about detecting a sound or using sound to find something we can't see? Does the camera have a microphone?
Interesting. One of my team's mentors was telling us about how the new Speed controllers have Ethernet ports on them for integration of speech recognition and the like. You may be on to something.
hihihiflcl81pig
06-12-2008, 00:01
Well there have been many people talking about text in the image, well I think that there may be some thing in there. A while ago I came across a program that allowed the use to have an image and put text into the meta of the image, and it was saved through changing shading values minutely, different for each letter. And there may be a possibility FIRST may have done that.
Another thing that I find interesting is how, and what changed in the "Original" compared to the FIRST image. Here is what I found....
Now the image is a little dark so look to my next post for more....
hihihiflcl81pig
06-12-2008, 00:08
Now for this image I changes the levels so that there is less contrast between 000000 and ffffff. There are three main things that stick out to me.\
1. There are those odd rectangles in the background
2. The blue spots don't match up with the spots you see on the fish,
3. The top fin has an orange spot on it, no where else do you see an orange spot.
You can also see normal jpg artifacts between lines of high contrast (The fish vs. the white background)
If there are any questions, or suggestions on how this was done, or how to further it, just contact me.
robonerd13
06-12-2008, 00:19
Now for this image I changes the levels so that there is less contrast between 000000 and ffffff. There are three main things that stick out to me.\
1. There are those odd rectangles in the background
2. The blue spots don't match up with the spots you see on the fish,
3. The top fin has an orange spot on it, no where else do you see an orange spot.
You can also see normal jpg artifacts between lines of high contrast (The fish vs. the white background)
If there are any questions, or suggestions on how this was done, or how to further it, just contact me.
Wow!!! This is really interesting.
Also me and my mom were thinking that maybe it has something to do with night vision??? or something similar like color regonition...maybe there will be part of the field not visible so we have to use the ethernet and the camera combined tofind certain items...scavenger hunt anyone?:rolleyes: :confused:
a scavenger hunt with the camera would actually be really cool. i hope it's something like that.
alectronic
06-12-2008, 00:31
OK, so this is my first post on CD, because I really wanted to comment on the first hint of 09. I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but it appears to me that the image in the background of the fish is a shark, pointed the other direction. As for the prominent fish in the picture, it is clearly an Opah. This is a bit out there, but the record for weight of an opah caught in open water is 162.9 pounds. Perhaps the weight limit this year? Seems about right. As for size, they are roughly 1 meter wide, again, a possible size hint. I also saw the posts that went up a while back saying that the FIRST regional directors were looking for pools. I think anyone that has been in the program for a build season or two knows that FIRST is more clever then to send a game hint about a fish, and then have all the directors look for pools. The game is not a water game. The question that is really being posed is why would they pick this fish? As far as I have found, other then the characteristics I mentioned, the only other valuable information is that it is common in Hawaii and does not travel in schools. New Alliance format perhaps? But even that appears worthless. As for the writing in the background of the image, I have been unsuccessful in lighting it in photo shop. One last note about the sharks possibly being the thing in the background... Assuming they are sharks, maybe they are hinting to sonar. I have no idea if this is correct, but from the pictures I have seen of the new control system, there is a very prominent camera. More then ever, a challenge that is some sort of maze or obstacle course style game is likely. That would not be extremely difficult in terms of transition to a new controller, but would also not be a walk in the park. As always, FIRST has confused us all. Maybe this can at least get you thinking of some other possibilities.
robonerd13
06-12-2008, 00:38
Well not to get you down but FIRST probably will not change the weight limit one they will not lower it because now the main components are heavier and two they will not raise it because of OSHA Standards and health and safety requirements that they have to meet.:(
Beta Version
06-12-2008, 00:38
THE GHOST IMAGE: MY VERDICT
This will be the sixth year of clues for me, so I'm starting to get used to what they will, and will not do. And though I cant discredit the possibility, however small, that the fact that there is this background ghost image may be important, I can conclude that its contents are most certainly of NO importance.
Heres the image flipped corrected to show the background.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/MuffasaMini/clue1Contrast.jpg
As you can see by the color of the letters, their distortion, the fact that they are mirror image, and the shading indicative of a copy getting darker as it reaches the spine of the book, all point toward this simply being an artifact of this picture being a photocopy. Someone even pointed out earlier that the version of this pitcure on the web that doesnt have the ghost is an older image, suggesting that it has probably been edited to remove the ghost image.
Also, you can see in this image that there are actually TWO ghost images on top of each other. One from each page. Further indicating that this "ghost" was unplanned. Or, if it was planned, its contents are unimportant, as there are two opposite pictures and lines of text on top of each other.
There is no possible way that useful information could be expected to be extracted from this ghost. Therefore, only the fact that there is a ghost is important, or, it is an unplanned artifact.
something i just realized... though i cant think of how it would mean anything:
the fins are red, and sort of triangular in shape
the spots are white, and their circles
the body of the fish is blue... unfortunately it isn't a square, if it were we would have every component of the first logo:ahh:
...again i don't see how this would mean anything, but i found it interesting, and if it did somehow mean something that would be great too
hihihiflcl81pig
06-12-2008, 01:05
OK, so this is my first post on CD, because I really wanted to comment on the first hint of 09. I don't know if anyone else has suggested this, but it appears to me that the image in the background of the fish is a shark, pointed the other direction. As for the prominent fish in the picture, it is clearly an Opah. This is a bit out there, but the record for weight of an opah caught in open water is 162.9 pounds. Perhaps the weight limit this year? Seems about right. As for size, they are roughly 1 meter wide, again, a possible size hint. I also saw the posts that went up a while back saying that the FIRST regional directors were looking for pools. I think anyone that has been in the program for a build season or two knows that FIRST is more clever then to send a game hint about a fish, and then have all the directors look for pools. The game is not a water game. The question that is really being posed is why would they pick this fish? As far as I have found, other then the characteristics I mentioned, the only other valuable information is that it is common in Hawaii and does not travel in schools. New Alliance format perhaps? But even that appears worthless. As for the writing in the background of the image, I have been unsuccessful in lighting it in photo shop. One last note about the sharks possibly being the thing in the background... Assuming they are sharks, maybe they are hinting to sonar. I have no idea if this is correct, but from the pictures I have seen of the new control system, there is a very prominent camera. More then ever, a challenge that is some sort of maze or obstacle course style game is likely. That would not be extremely difficult in terms of transition to a new controller, but would also not be a walk in the park. As always, FIRST has confused us all. Maybe this can at least get you thinking of some other possibilities.
I believe that the background image of the "Shark" is the slime/wet area of another fish. That fish was probably just had the shape of a shark, and you can see it in the original images. Form that I can conclude that they took photos of a a few fish at a time, and it wasn't put in there by FIRST.
hihihiflcl81pig
06-12-2008, 01:07
THE GHOST IMAGE: MY VERDICT
This will be the sixth year of clues for me, so I'm starting to get used to what they will, and will not do. And though I cant discredit the possibility, however small, that the fact that there is this background ghost image may be important, I can conclude that its contents are most certainly of NO importance.
Heres the image flipped corrected to show the background.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/MuffasaMini/clue1Contrast.jpg
As you can see by the color of the letters, their distortion, the fact that they are mirror image, and the shading indicative of a copy getting darker as it reaches the spine of the book, all point toward this simply being an artifact of this picture being a photocopy. Someone even pointed out earlier that the version of this pitcure on the web that doesnt have the ghost is an older image, suggesting that it has probably been edited to remove the ghost image.
Also, you can see in this image that there are actually TWO ghost images on top of each other. One from each page. Further indicating that this "ghost" was unplanned. Or, if it was planned, its contents are unimportant, as there are two opposite pictures and lines of text on top of each other.
There is no possible way that useful information could be expected to be extracted from this ghost. Therefore, only the fact that there is a ghost is important, or, it is an unplanned artifact.
I agree with you. The first thing that I tried to do with the image was mess around with an overlay, and sharpen the text. After a few minutes I concluded that the text was illegible no matter what you do to it. Also it was in the original, so FIRST did not put that text in there as a clue.
After more than 350 posts and reading the thread twice I still have very little clue.
The GDC did well...ooo how I wish they didn't. :)
The one thing I think is very good bet is the fact the the game field will NOT be flat even carpet. With the introduction of the new surfaces for TEC I really think we can expect something similar for FRC if not on an even larger scale.
Matthew Forman
MorTorq 1515
lemon1324
06-12-2008, 01:13
Let's try DaRandom Coding it...
ie we take apparently unrelated but somehow connected things and come to a very logical, irrefutable conclusion:
Opah. Sounds like Oprah. TV show, and Oprah gives stuff away. This fish is given away by longline fishermen of old. Logically connected then. TV Shows--Jeopardy--Alex Trebek--Double Jeopardy--5th Amendment--Bill of Rights--Bill Gates--Robert Gates--Defense Secretary--Navy--Water Game!
Darn, that can't be right, can it.
Let's try again
Moonfish--Earth's Moon--Satellite--Sputnik--USSR--Miracle on Ice--Ice Hockey, which is played on ice, which is frozen water--Water game!
Hmmm...still can't be right.
Lampris Guttatis--Latin--Romans--Famous architecture--aqueduct--Water Game!
Maybe if we start with just fish:
Fish--Phish (The band)--Music--Metallica--Dave Lavery wants speakers on the robots to play Metallica--Dave Lavery's other car is on Mars--Pheonix is on Mars--Pheonix found water--Water game!!
Hmm... What e'er ga'e me that idea?
(yes that last bit is a lame water game pun)
Woody1458
06-12-2008, 01:19
Fish out of water:
I think it is important that this isn't a picture of a swimming fish, which is actually easier to come by then a dead fish on paper. That makes me think this idea of "Fish out of water" is some critical point to the game. I would guess either there is some zone that when entered your control ability changes drastically, or there is some disabling capability whether against the other team, or your own I don't know.
btw anyone that still thinks the text matters, FIRST took the picture from this website:
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
Since the did not make it themselves, they could not control what the text says
http://www.gripus.org/clue1.jpg
As seen in the picture, on the first line, between the tail fin and the bottom fin. Is "@ body", is it just me or would they have not let that go if it was in a book. :confused:
Bill Taylor
06-12-2008, 02:07
A few ideas I was wanting to air out about the clue. The water game, although fun to think about, would be impractical to set up. One bad leak in a tank and FIRST is rebuilding somebody's arena floor. The fish has the common name "Moonfish". Plus, we're getting cameras in the kit of parts and handy-dandy instructions on how to specifically hook them up. My guess, and I apologize and do not take credit if someone beat me to this conclusion. is that it will be a Lunar Landing game and the driver will be "black-bagged" and have to operate the robot through a monitor just like an actual rover. This could be for gameplay or perhaps take the place of autonomous. Plus, I remember seeing a clue a month ago that was up with the round diamond plate and the number 5 painted on it(could have been bogus). If that was an actually clue then those could have been gamepieces. If not, the Moonfish is listed as a "gamefish" by marine organizations. It may, in fact be the gamepiece.
Roboticmayhem
06-12-2008, 02:28
Its colors and shape could have something to do with it. The main colors, as mentioned int the first article post, are red and blue, like alliance colors. The pattern of colors is Blue at the center with Red at the top and bottom. Could this suggest a field setup or shape? Will Blue be defending the center of a field or will the challenge be to claim the center? Finally, the body is filled with white spots, could this suggest many small "game pieces" in the field?
-Nick
It could be less obvious. ....maybe the name of the fish....
GOOGLE : MOONFISH
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/images/fish/moonfish1.jpg
hmm... interesting... If the name does have anything to do with the game... then it could have a landscape similar to the moon landscape. I think that would cool. It would make designing transmissions and wheel systems difficult, but also very fun. Think of having to climb over bumpy terrain.....
or maybe even advanced sensors similar to what might be used on the moon.....
last year they added the IR recievers to simulate what it was like to talk to the mars rovers. I think it's very possible they want to simulate something else "NASA" related.
SpartanG37
06-12-2008, 02:54
Hey everyone, all the ideas make a lot of sense really but the one thing i just noticed that doesnt make any sense and sorry if this was already pointed out but there is this guy who posted a reply for Game Hint #3 for last years game and at the bottom of his reply, it has this same picture of the moonfish and its dated 1-02-08! Now idk if that is just a coinsidence but it really confused me and got me thinking.:confused: If u cant find it go to the bottom of this page under "Similiar Threads" click "Game Hint #3" and its like the 3rd reply down. Let me know what you guys think.
Hey everyone, all the ideas make a lot of sense really but the one thing i just noticed that doesnt make any sense and sorry if this was already pointed out but there is this guy who posted a reply for Game Hint #3 for last years game and at the bottom of his reply, it has this same picture of the moonfish and its dated 1-02-08! Now idk if that is just a coinsidence but it really confused me and got me thinking.:confused: If u cant find it go to the bottom of this page under "Similiar Threads" click "Game Hint #3" and its like the 3rd reply down. Let me know what you guys think.Not a coincidence. I know who you are talking about, and he didn't have that then.
When you update your profile or signature, the information goes to every post you have. So it's always current, even if the post isn't.
For example, when I make this post, my profile will indicate that I am on team FRC #1135(Schmoebotics)(0330 Alumni), with a team role of Alumni. Give me about 5 minutes, and that will change.
SpartanG37
06-12-2008, 03:01
Ohhh...ok thats a relief....thanks a lot. I am new to this forum stuff so I just needed a head up thats all. ;)
Guys, I've figured it out. The reason there is a fish is because it's a water game.
alectronic
06-12-2008, 03:19
Its colors and shape could have something to do with it. The main colors, as mentioned int the first article post, are red and blue, like alliance colors. The pattern of colors is Blue at the center with Red at the top and bottom. Could this suggest a field setup or shape? Will Blue be defending the center of a field or will the challenge be to claim the center? Finally, the body is filled with white spots, could this suggest many small "game pieces" in the field?
-Nick
On that same note, take a look at the inverted image... When you flip it it turns blue. Perhaps there is something, as mentioned, to having to control a portion of the field. Maybe the field randomly decides whether red or blue is offense / defense. Perhaps a offense/defense period like the one in 2006?? I think that was the year, I dont remember.
There was another person who mentioned this, and I agree with it, that even if the physical size of the field does not change (I doubt it would) I would find it near impossible that there would be absolutely no changes to the surfaces. Especially with challenging teams by providing the camera and having access to this new system, some change to the field surface besides the challenge structure is very likely. As for game pieces, the last year was balls, the year before that rings. 2006 was balls again and 2005 was triangles. Because I do not believe that a fish would be a game piece, maybe they will go back to cubes? And 1 other note, pools are out of the question, but what about some sort of tank where maybe robots can reach over the edges of the field and retrieve something from a tank of some sort as a bonus? Seems far-fetched, but you never know.:D
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 07:08
Guys, I've figured it out. The reason there is a fish is because it's a water game.
For some odd reason, that just made my day! :rolleyes:
Tottanka
06-12-2008, 07:33
I think that the Game Hint only relates to the name of the game, and not any particular part of it. It has been this way in previous years more then a couple of times.
Now, what does interest me, is the name of that page on UFfirst.org.
Does the name "Game hint #1" mean we will be getting at least one more hint?
in 2006 and 2007 there was only one hint, but don't remember if it's page on usfirst.org was called "game hint" or "game hint #1"...
Techalex,
I really like the idea of having one team control a portion of the field. I think that throughout the match you will have to play both defense and offense (what ever that means).
I also think that our robots will be forced to climb things and the floor will be wet or something because fish are slippery! Also, I was reading that the moonfish migrate in a vertical patter (or something like that). I think that this is more evidence that our robots are going to have to climb something or pull themselves up.
But where does the camera fit into all of this? Any ideas??
OK this thread has become useless because people are to lazy to read the thread before posting. Oh well. Se you in the next clue thread.
mrbob1000
06-12-2008, 08:29
building off the thought earlier posted, you only ever see one half of the moon. could it be that the game will be like the moon? could it be that the driver will only be able to see one half of the field and then have to use the camera.
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 08:56
Does the name "Game hint #1" mean we will be getting at least one more hint?
in 2006 and 2007 there was only one hint, but don't remember if it's page on usfirst.org was called "game hint" or "game hint #1"...
Most likely we'll be receiving more hints. Last season, we had a total of three hints. And it related to the game, not the title of it.
OK this thread has become useless because people are to lazy to read the thread before posting. Oh well. Se you in the next clue thread.
Same here. I'm tired of checking the latest posts, only to read the same stuff over again for the third time. There is a "Search Thread" button on the first post of every page, people. Please use it. I know you're excited, but it brings nothing to the conversation if you're reiterating something that has been found out earlier in the thread.
Thanks.
ATannahill
06-12-2008, 09:03
OPAH: obvious pre-announcement hint
announcement as in kickoff
JaredGarrison
06-12-2008, 09:03
I was thinking about the text in the background of the picture and I came up with this
Hybrid Systems Interchange Format (HSIF)
which is fish backwards
Maybe something to do with having a new type of robot needed to exchange things with other robots?
Thats the best I can come up with....:(
mrbob1000
06-12-2008, 09:18
I was thinking about the text in the background of the picture and I came up with this
Hybrid Systems Interchange Format (HSIF)
which is fish backwards
Maybe something to do with having a new type of robot needed to exchange things with other robots?
Thats the best I can come up with....:(
Its reasonable considering the power that the new control system has. makes a bit of sense when you think about it.
Tetraman
06-12-2008, 09:26
I was thinking about the text in the background of the picture and I came up with this
Hybrid Systems Interchange Format (HSIF)
which is fish backwards
Maybe something to do with having a new type of robot needed to exchange things with other robots?
Thats the best I can come up with....:(
This one is textbook.
JaredGarrison
06-12-2008, 09:28
Its reasonable considering the power that the new control system has. makes a bit of sense when you think about it.
The goal of HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format) is to define an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors.
Sounds reasonable to me.....and quite sensible
building off the thought earlier posted, you only ever see one half of the moon. could it be that the game will be like the moon? could it be that the driver will only be able to see one half of the field and then have to use the camera.
This is a very good idea. What if there is a wall in the middle of the field and the robot has to climb over it, use it's camera to find the game piece, and then bring it back to the other side of the field.
DMetalKong
06-12-2008, 09:38
Now for this image I changes the levels so that there is less contrast between 000000 and ffffff. There are three main things that stick out to me.\
1. There are those odd rectangles in the background
2. The blue spots don't match up with the spots you see on the fish,
3. The top fin has an orange spot on it, no where else do you see an orange spot.
You can also see normal jpg artifacts between lines of high contrast (The fish vs. the white background)
If there are any questions, or suggestions on how this was done, or how to further it, just contact me.
I did this same process to images from a wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG) article on the JPEG compression.
The original image:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Phalaenopsis_(aka).jpg
The compressed image (compression increases LTR)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Phalaenopsis_JPEG.png
Attached is the difference map with its contrast increased. Nowhere in it do artifacts appear like in the image hihihiflcl81pig posted. I'm no image expert, but it does appear like the change in filesize is not due to compression differences. Try 5634 (The order of Dave's changing signatures) for the password on that decoding program.
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 09:49
[...] Try 5634 (The order of Dave's changing signatures) for the password on that decoding program.
Meh, I'm bored right now. I'll entertain the idea and post back shortly....
computerish
06-12-2008, 09:54
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but if you think about water on Mars (particularly in relation to NASA's Phoenix), you are really thinking about ice, not water. Perhaps the playing field might be/involve fake ice:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/fake-plastic-ice-rinks.php
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 10:09
Attached are the numbers I tried. No go.....
JaneYoung
06-12-2008, 10:13
I don't know or care if it's been said before, I'm too lazy to read through pages upon pages of speculation:
"Moonfish" refers to several different fish, not just this Opah.
Interestingly enough, I found that Moonfish is another name for both an Atlantic Spadefish and a Diamondfish.
Spades? Diamonds?
This year's game is robo poker. Problem solved.
*ears perk up* - poker?
Diamonds and spades?
I haven't seen that...
Edit:
And why would the image change if it is inverted - like changing color to blue?
And - the background - what is obvious about it, not what is hidden?
And how come folks are getting grumpy? :)
i'm going with "pastrami gut lust"
but it does have ramp in the list too...
The floor could be covered with pastrami, making everything slippery like a fish!
As stated here - http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
Lampris guttatus weights between 30-50kgs. 50kgs -> 110lbs, NEW WEIGHT LIMIT?? :yikes:
as i was looking at the picture on this site, i noticed that the moonfish had the mysterious writing behind it too, thus making it seem as if there is no actual significance behind it since its just part of the original picture
DMetalKong
06-12-2008, 10:30
Looking at the 2008 You Design the Game Design Thread, some possible connections with what has been thought of in this thread.
Mentions slick field surface.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=748367&postcount=2
You can't catch a fish twice.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=748377&postcount=4
A teeter-totter.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=748777&postcount=15
Do I need say more?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=769790&postcount=41
Who knows, the GDC could have been watching...
Tottanka
06-12-2008, 10:37
Looking at the 2008 You Design the Game Design Thread, some possible connections with what has been thought of in this thread.
Mentions slick field surface.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=748367&postcount=2
You can't catch a fish twice.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=748377&postcount=4
A teeter-totter.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=748777&postcount=15
Do I need say more?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=769790&postcount=41
Who knows, the GDC could have been watching...
It is a fact that the GDC, or at least a part of it has read all the posts in that thread and taken it in consideration.
Now, we only need to know what they really thought about it, and what they decided to do with it...
jacksparrowlov6
06-12-2008, 11:29
ok you guys its a opah or moonfish!!
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/salmon/FishID/Lampris_guttatus.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opah#Life_history
jacksparrowlov6
06-12-2008, 11:36
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opah#Life_history
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/salmon/FishID/Lampris_guttatus.jpg
we think it mite have to do with either keeping a constant speed or type of wheel or motor
Amehrotra
06-12-2008, 11:36
In my opinions this was just a fish picture scanned from a book with very thin paper so the words are backwards because they are on next page. Onion skin paper and <40gsm paper like bible paper is common for big dictionary like books.
this is not true because we have found the original copy of this photo on google which is exactly the same when you subtract them and has the same format but if you use decrypting software in the clue you will get a message vs the normal pic.
the only thing is that we need a password
this is not true because we have found the original copy of this photo on google which is exactly the same when you subtract them and has the same format but if you use decrypting software in the clue you will get a message vs the normal pic.
the only thing is that we need a password
what decrypting software do you use?
maybe something along the lines of
moonfish not herring or FIRST herring
for the password.
Kaushal.K
06-12-2008, 12:27
One of the guys on my team mentioned that some Fish only see certain wavelengths of light... Based on that my bet is that there maybe locations on the field with IR emitters at certain locations, where teams must reach (overcome difficult terrain and/or tetter-totter) to obtain game pieces. It could also involve the camera, as previously mentioned, where the game pieces (or the IR emitter where the game pieces are located) are out of the drivers line of sight, and thus rely on the camera to obtain game pieces.
Just my 2 cents.
Amehrotra
06-12-2008, 12:29
what decrypting software do you use?
maybe something along the lines of
moonfish not herring or FIRST herring
for the password.
i was trying to use jphide software,
let me get you another post with more info on this cause i am positive that this is the real thing
Amehrotra
06-12-2008, 12:31
There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.
****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.
so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.
just wanna keep bringing this up for those who dont read the whole fourms, this is what i am positive it has to do with,,
Amehrotra
06-12-2008, 12:42
Friday, September 26, 2008
Blogging can be a real challenge
Good Afternoon Teams,
It's a real challenge sharing information with the FRC community because so much of what's happening right now is in flux.
Beta test teams are working with prototypes of the new control system and reviewing draft documentation. As they share their findings with us, we'll correct final bugs and post information on the public beta test forum. I can't be specific about when the postings will start because I can't predict how long the Beta Test teams will take or what they will find. Beta Test teams have been directed to share everything through the Public Beta Test forum to ensure everyone in the FRC community will have equal access to their findings. We're going to show you everything as soon as it's ready.
The new control system is in production. The challenge now lies in convincing the suppliers to put the needs of the FRC community above their other (more profitable) production deadlines. I can't be specific about when the new control systems will be shipped to teams because I can't predict precisely when all the parts will be in house, but I will send the new control systems out as early as possible. When I know the final price for the extra control system parts, I will share it with everyone.
FRC has decided to make parts reusable for a number of positive reasons, but I can't be specific about what registration costs will be in the future because I can't predict what the market will do. The FIRST staff are always working to keep the costs of participation down, but we don't have any control over the cost of parts, the expense of shipping or the extent to which our suppliers are willing to donate time or materials. It is my goal to provide a full FRC experience as economically as possible.
This is what it's like in the real world folks. Woodie said it best. "There's never enough information. Never enough time." He was talking about the games, but it applies to the work FRC does behind the scenes as well. My plan is to share as much information with the FRC community as I can and to show you what the real engineering experience is at FIRST
98 days until Kickoff. See you then!
P.S. We haven't decided what the 2009 game hint will be yet.... but there are rumors that Dave just bought a new dive mask and flippers.....
Posted by Bill at 11:16 AM 9 comments
here is something you guys might wanna read (the ps note is kinda interseting)
i have known this for a while but just thought of it now
hiimcristhian
06-12-2008, 13:11
Here fishy fishy fishy!!!
What's that I smell, can it be... is it possible... It smells like a water game :P I'm ready for the madness to begin!!:yikes:
Ha! so far it seems like the very first post mite be right.:rolleyes:
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 13:43
I think we've made so many guesses that one of us can't be wrong. :p
To whomever is doing the stegonographic tests: What are you using to detect whether there is a JPHIDE'd file in the image? I've downloaded the windows binaries from http://linux01.gwdg.de/~alatham/stego.html but the tools only extract an image; they have no sensitivity option and no way to check whether or not there is an encoded file.
I'd like to write a dictionary attack, and I'd appreciate any help given.
Also - it's a water game. Really.
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 14:14
All I can tell you is don't get it my way..... ;)
I like the idea of it being a water game, but creating an arena for that would be extremely difficult. Also, if water damage occurred to the site of any regional, there is the possibility that we wouldn't be able to use it again. I don't think FIRST would take that risk.
Josh Goodman
06-12-2008, 14:23
No...it's not a water game. What FIRST is actually referring to is the flying fish in the Super Mario games....it will obviously be a flying game where you can't touch the ground.
/kid
kevin.li.rit
06-12-2008, 14:23
I think it means the game will be some sort of fishing game where there will be a wall and you have to go over and pull another robot or object over it... Just guessing.
njamietech
06-12-2008, 14:23
agggg!
all the possibilities are making my head explode!
but if I had to guess:
id choose water game because its cool
but realistically:
Id like to go with this idea:
the field resembles that of previous years except it is raised on stilts. it i raised because there are holes in the playing field holding pieces in them. but heres the kicker: the driver's station windows are blacked out so only the audience can see without the use of a camera. the goal: to score as many points as possible by collecting the pieces from the holes (each with differing point values).
thats my idea.
feel free to correct me or build on my idea.
sincerely,
Neal Jamieson
Jonathan Norris
06-12-2008, 14:41
One of the guys on my team mentioned that some Fish only see certain wavelengths of light... Based on that my bet is that there maybe locations on the field with IR emitters at certain locations, where teams must reach (overcome difficult terrain and/or tetter-totter) to obtain game pieces. It could also involve the camera, as previously mentioned, where the game pieces (or the IR emitter where the game pieces are located) are out of the drivers line of sight, and thus rely on the camera to obtain game pieces.
Just my 2 cents.
Out of all the posts so far in this thread, you may have actually found something that could be applicable in the game design from this hint. If it is true that fish can only see certain wavelengths of light, someone figure out what wavelengths... You know FIRST is going to want to show off the capabilities of its new control system this year, and that fancy new camera has some new tricks it can do. If someone more familiar with the new camera could let us know what it capabilities are (multiple colour tracking??), we could make a better guess on how it could be applied to a game.
smurfgirl
06-12-2008, 14:57
but realistically:
Id like to go with this idea:
the field resembles that of previous years except it is raised on stilts. it i raised because there are holes in the playing field holding pieces in them. but heres the kicker: the driver's station windows are blacked out so only the audience can see without the use of a camera. the goal: to score as many points as possible by collecting the pieces from the holes (each with differing point values).
thats my idea.
feel free to correct me or build on my idea.
That's actually a very cool idea, I think I'd enjoy playing a game like that.
However, I think it would be hard to pull off... if the field is raised, how do you get the robots on to it? You would need some sort of ramps leading up to it, which would take up even more space, and soem regional venues are packed in enough as is. Also, the field would be much harder to build, because it would need all sorts of supports underneath. And wouldn't the robots get stuck in the holes if they drove over them? Or how big are we thinking for the holes? Still, a very creative idea. I wouldn't mind playing it.
My thoughts about what the hint could mean:
- As mentioned, opahs are hard to catch, but highly valued. I'm thinking there is going to be either a high-value game piece or multiplier which is limited in supply (maybe only one?), and hard to obtain... but if you can get it, you'll get lots of points.
- The interpretation of "levels" people have suggested (one fish behind the other, fish dive deep in the sea, moon/sun far from Earth, king= a high ranking) is also quite plausible. There are a lot of things that levels could mean... ramps, platforms, different height goals, different levels with multipliers...
First off I'd just like to say that I think everyone is reading into this way to much. I doubt that there is any hidden message in the picture or that it has anything to do with the text that was on the reverse page of the book. I also doubt that it is a water based game because the field for that would just be to hard to build.
I think that the idea about the terrain being similar to the moon is practical, but the idea of it being a slick surface just screams lawsuit after some kid slips and breaks something while trying to get the robot on/off the field.
I also think that it could have something to do with the dot pattern on the fish. As mentioned before, the new camera this year is going to have a lot of capabilities and I think one of those is shape/pattern recognition. I also like the aforementioned idea of having the drivers windows painted black so that they can't see and must navigate using the camera.
Does anyone else get the feeling that they don't even design the game and that they just randomly release a clue and let the FIRST community come up with the ideas and then base them off of that?
I also think that there should be a prize at the end of the season for whomever had the closest guess, based off the hints, as to what the game was.
ATannahill
06-12-2008, 15:19
What if the hint has to do with human players? Do they fish for the batteries in a hole then you put them in the robot and play the main game? They play Go Fish for tools/parts? In the '03 kickoff the question of who should be more important HP or robots was mentioned, What if the levels mean HP drop things onto opposing robots? The robots might need to find the HP with the camera to get the game object.
MaddyTheHatter
06-12-2008, 16:14
I haven't had time to read more than 8 pages of this thread, but I have my own ideas, and I agree with much of what I've read. Ideas I think are viable are:
- the idea of two levels to the playing surface
- the idea where drivers cannot see the field for a portion of time, maybe the Plexiglas is blacked out or something?
- having to reach into some sort of 'fish' tank to get out game pieces, thus going 'fishing'
Also, the name of the fish, when translated, is
The genus Lampris is derived from the Greek lampros meaning radi-
ant, while the species guttatus is likely derived from
the Latin word for spot, guttat.
So "Radiant Spot." Coincides with the idea of dark and light contrast to find game pieces, way around, etc.
ATannahill
06-12-2008, 16:33
Attached are the numbers I tried. No go.....
Try the numbers
777
1777
7177
7717
7771
The number of posts made on Bill's Blog each month, although the post about the hint was posted after it was released so it may not be included.
Nothing again. Not a thing... Anyone else want to take a guess at what the password is?
DMetalKong
06-12-2008, 16:47
Nothing again. Not a thing... Anyone else want to take a guess at what the password is?
was opah already tried?
Has someone scanned the original image as well as the image provided by FIRST to see if the original image contains this "encrypted" message as well? Because if it does it would mean that FIRST didn't put it in there in the first place.
As for trying to crack the password on this thing, I don't think that FIRST would promote brute force (or any other sort) cracking techniques. It just seems to go against their nature and I don't think they'd release a clue that required you to use it.
Maybe we don't know the password yet, and the next clue (if there is one) will hint at the password.
braisinchef
06-12-2008, 16:54
Perhaps it has something to do with scales
ATannahill
06-12-2008, 16:56
I've analyzed the picture and I've determined that there really is no clue in the background, it is just a picture of another fish and of its description from another page in a book. I'd have to go with the clue relating the description of the fish. To see the picture, look at my signature.
A. it is not in your sig, you should check it in your control panel
B. all that you said has been posted, please search before you post
So "Radiant Spot." Coincides with the idea of dark and light contrast to find game pieces, way around, etc.The return of the green cathode lights? After all, there is a camera in the control system kit. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a task for it, and the green lights are pretty good at being targets. Interesting...
Perhaps it has something to do with scales
That is a brilliant idea! I don't think that I have read that before.
I don't know if anyone did it before, but I made the image darker to see what's hiding in the background. Does it tell anything to anyone?
RoboGeek99
06-12-2008, 17:12
i think you might be on to something with that one ;p...and after were done its sushi all around...am i right?
I don't know if anyone did it before, but I made the image darker to see what's hiding in the background. Does it tell anything to anyone?I'm not sure what all the things people have done to this picture are. It's been reversed, had its colors changed, and many other things. All right here in this thread.
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 17:19
I don't know if anyone did it before, but I made the image darker to see what's hiding in the background. Does it tell anything to anyone?
Search Is Your Best Friend
http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq345/OneUpDave/thread-search.jpg
Nin_estarSaerah
06-12-2008, 17:19
Personally, I really don't think there is anything encrypted in the image, especially something that needs a password. If there is, that's probably not the clue.
The hint should be something that all FIRSTers can use, not just ones with certain skills or software. If there was something "hidden" it would be something that could be easily deciphered. The hints in the past have all been relatively straight forward, at least to the point where everyone had a shot at them.
So, most likely the hint is something about the fish itself. We seem to have recovered all information about the fish, now we have to use it.
i think you might be on to something with that one ;p...and after were done its sushi all around...am i right?
after all this speculation of fish i kinda wanna try some Opah sushi.....;)
dbs12693x
06-12-2008, 17:37
The search says I'm the only one to see this...
but it's a fake fish! I can see seems on the upper-right side.
Thoughts?
-Daniel Smolkin
The search says I'm the only one to see this...
but it's a fake fish! I can see seems on the upper-right side.
Thoughts?
-Daniel Smolkin
Fake Fish omgomgomgomgomgomg:ahh:
the human players get to trow fish this year sweeeet:cool:
TEAM2579MENTOR
06-12-2008, 17:56
I think it might actually be a water game, because I was talking to someone in the Arizona Regional and I asked her what the 2009 game would be, and she is like a water game, where the robots swim around. But then again, this can be just to throw us off.
Ice Berg
06-12-2008, 17:58
I posted before that i think the game will be called "Shoot for the Moon" because I think that the camera will have to track a large white circular light. However, it struck me that using a white light may not work because the venue lighting could interfere. I'm not sure if this is true but I'd be interested to hear someones opinion. Also, the moon has a light and a dark side. This could be further evidence for a split field like the 2001 game. This could also have something to do with the camera.
MikeMascaro
06-12-2008, 18:02
I think it might actually be a water game, because I was talking to someone in the Arizona Regional and I asked her what the 2009 game would be, and she is like a water game, where the robots swim around. But then again, this can be just to throw us off.
You want to pay for swimming pools big enough for six robots at every regional?
Underwater FIRST games aren't going to happen. It's too expensive, and too complex.
mrbob1000
06-12-2008, 18:13
If it is a water game, and it does have a human player, WHO WOULD SWIM AROUND IN FRONT OF LOTS OF PEOPLE!
njamietech
06-12-2008, 18:18
If it is a water game, and it does have a human player, WHO WOULD SWIM AROUND IN FRONT OF LOTS OF PEOPLE!
Michael Phelps? :yikes:
lol
but seriously:
a water game is unlikely, unless we are playing at natatoriums.
Goober!!!
06-12-2008, 18:45
I think with the dots on the fish would just say the game object is going to be a circle object?
my 2 cent's!!!:D :D :D
Raumiester2010
06-12-2008, 18:47
You want to pay for swimming pools big enough for six robots at every regional?
Underwater FIRST games aren't going to happen. It's too expensive, and too complex.
Ya, as much as it would rock to have an underwater game, WAY TOO COMPLEX...
MikeMascaro
06-12-2008, 18:48
Ya, as much as it would rock to have an underwater game, WAY TOO COMPLEX...
They'd lose teams; it wouldn't be possible for everyone to compete anymore, and they'd drop out.
MikeMascaro
06-12-2008, 18:59
My best guess at the game: nothing to do with the background, but instead we'll be "fishing" some sort of game pieces out of a barrel or something. Perhaps these containers are in the middle of a field divided in two, like the whole light/dark side concept (apparently nicknames for Opah include moonfish and sunfish).
My guess at the game pieces: same shape as the opah, round and flat. Almost like tubes? But I doubt they'll do that again so soon. My thoughts would be like those big Frisbee things made out of cloth.
It looks to be a Lampris Guttatus, commonly called an Opah.
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=1072
Here is a Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opah
It's also called a "Moon Fish" comes from Hawaii.
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 19:06
It's also called a "Moon Fish" comes from Hawaii.
Search Is Your Best Friend
http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq345/OneUpDave/thread-search.jpg
synth3tk,
That's getting annoying. Please stop.
synth3tk
06-12-2008, 19:19
Wanna talk about annoying? Coming back to the thread every five minutes to read everything go in circles.
That's what's annoying.
Relax dudes. all he's saying just read before you post wile showing so to do it just in case you dont know how.
Relax dudes. all he's saying just read before you post wile showing so to do it just in case you dont know how.
Okay. so I didn't see the 30 odd pages of misc ideas and such.
Our take on this is that the game involves "shoot the moon", it's a moon fish.
As far as translating all the reversed text on the image, it's the backside of the fish identification book page, no strange deciphering codes are there. The same image is used on a couple of different sites that are "legit" fish identification sites.
Taken at it's face value, it's a fish, specifically it's a moon fish with an alternate name of opah. To me that means A) "shoot the moon", B) we are fishing for something or C) FIRST is sending us all to Hawaii because that's where it's found. C) seems pretty unlikely so that leaves A or B until they give us another hint.
By the way, to answer a previous post, yes, they are suppossed to be pretty good eating. And at 60 to 200 lbs, that's a lot of fish.
"Shoot the Moon"...anyone in here play Hearts?
http://www.wikihow.com/Shoot-the-Moon-in-Hearts
The card game of hearts is unusual in that the winner is the individual who accumulates the fewest number of points! Point cards are the queen of spades (13) and any heart (1 apiece). However, if a player can capture every point card, they will in fact collect no points, while giving 26 points to every other player--this is called "shooting the moon".
Maybe it's a game where you have to collect as many scoring objects as you can, and the player/alliance/?? with the least points wins, but if you end up with all of the points, you automatically win the round? Or, you would want to try and get as many points as you can while keeping them away from your opponents. Maybe the field would be divided in half/thirds/however the alliances/bots are set up, and robots could travel between each section. They would have to try and obtain all of the scoring objects while keeping other bots from taking their objects...kind of like capture the flag, I guess. In the event that one alliance cannot obtain all of the points, the alliance with the least amount of points wins.
I have the feeling that I didn't explain that very well... :confused:
DMetalKong
06-12-2008, 20:02
Slightly off topic, but hearts is the best card game ever :D.
Anyways, scary thing is I was trying a while back to come up with a FRC game that was like hearts, and I ended up posting it in the game design thread :yikes:. I hope that isn't what they used as inspiration.
"Shoot the Moon"...anyone in here play Hearts?
http://www.wikihow.com/Shoot-the-Moon-in-Hearts
Maybe it's a game where you have to collect as many scoring objects as you can, and the player/alliance/?? with the least points wins, but if you end up with all of the points, you automatically win the round? Or, you would want to try and get as many points as you can while keeping them away from your opponents. Maybe the field would be divided in half/thirds/however the alliances/bots are set up, and robots could travel between each section. They would have to try and obtain all of the scoring objects while keeping other bots from taking their objects...kind of like capture the flag, I guess. In the event that one alliance cannot obtain all of the points, the alliance with the least amount of points wins.
I have the feeling that I didn't explain that very well... :confused:
AustinSchuh
06-12-2008, 20:13
I ran stegdetect on the image. According to the manual, it
Tests if information has been embedded with jsteg.
Tests if information has been embedded with outguess.
Tests if information has been embedded with jphide.
Tests if information has been hidden with invisible secrets.
Tests if information has been hidden with F5.
Tests if information has been added at the end of file, for example by camouflage or appendX.
Here is the output.
austin[50950] carbon /tmp
$ stegdetect -s 10 clue1.jpg
clue1.jpg : jphide(***)
austin[50952] carbon /tmp
$ stegbreak -t p clue1.jpg
Loaded 1 files...
clue1.jpg : negative
Processed 1 files, found 0 embeddings.
Time: 5203 seconds: Cracks: 11266645, 2165.4 c/s
I can verify what EricH said. It looks like there is something hidden inside it with jphide. stegbreak is another command that tries to brute force the password inside the file. I ran that for an hour and a half, and it couldn't find anything. It uses a dictionary attack similar to the one that powers John the Ripper.
Running strings on it didn't yield anything useful other than the XML and some other random looking strings.
gorrilla
06-12-2008, 20:20
it could be something like 2001's game co-operatin first(seeing as how the opah is a loner fish) were we have to score for the opposite alliance or something?
JaneYoung
06-12-2008, 20:27
Ever heard tell of an invisible moonfish? I googled location of moonfish because I had seen a map showing them in a lot of places globally early yesterday...
...anyway just now it talked about how to find moonfish in a game called Skies of Arcadia.
I have no idea what I am saying - but hey, invisible moonfish sound like fun.
DMetalKong
06-12-2008, 20:38
I ran stegdetect on the image. According to the manual, it
Tests if information has been embedded with jsteg.
Tests if information has been embedded with outguess.
Tests if information has been embedded with jphide.
Tests if information has been hidden with invisible secrets.
Tests if information has been hidden with F5.
Tests if information has been added at the end of file, for example by camouflage or appendX.
Here is the output.
austin[50950] carbon /tmp
$ stegdetect -s 10 clue1.jpg
clue1.jpg : jphide(***)
austin[50952] carbon /tmp
$ stegbreak -t p clue1.jpg
Loaded 1 files...
clue1.jpg : negative
Processed 1 files, found 0 embeddings.
Time: 5203 seconds: Cracks: 11266645, 2165.4 c/s
I can verify what EricH said. It looks like there is something hidden inside it with jphide. stegbreak is another command that tries to brute force the password inside the file. I ran that for an hour and a half, and it couldn't find anything. It uses a dictionary attack similar to the one that powers John the Ripper.
Running strings on it didn't yield anything useful other than the XML and some other random looking strings.
As in the strings that JPEG compression uses? Or the kind that FIRST has diabolically hidden inside this image?
Anyways using 5643 as the id on the FIRST website turns up nothing useful.
http://usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=5634
AustinSchuh
06-12-2008, 20:46
As in the strings that JPEG compression uses? Or the kind that FIRST has diabolically hidden inside this image?
I cut down the output to the following to show what I was getting and how I did it. I just included samples of the interesting parts that I found. A fair amount of it was just random garbage. It was a couple of hundred lines. I replaced the spots that I cut out with "..."
austin[50984] carbon /tmp
$ strings clue1.jpg
JFIF
Exif
Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh
2008:12:03 19:56:22
JFIF
Adobe_CM
Adobe
b34r
7GWgw
AQaq"
...
}y,ul
05AO
5jPhotoshop 3.0
8BIM
8BIM
8BIM
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
<key>com.apple.print.PageFormat.PMHorizontalRes</key>
<dict>
<key>com.apple.print.ticket.creator</key>
...
SalenaLynn
06-12-2008, 20:52
Ok, so I've actually taken the time to read the entire post, and I have to point out some stuff:
1) WE ARE NOT PLAYING A WATER GAME! Student built robots + water + electricity = BAD IDEA! FIRST would never allow that, to much of a chance for us to hurt ourselves.
2) The ghost text and pictures in the background of the clue are not important. We've all established (several times) that we know what other site shares the same picture FIRST is using, and that it was scanned from a book. Yes, the file sizes are different, but that could be due to any number of things.
3) The new camera will most likely be used as a major part of the game. In the past few years FIRST has been pushing for more and more teams to learn how to use the cameras and sensors, so my guess is that being able to be entirely or partially autonomous will lend teams a large advantage.
That's all I'm gonna rant about for now.
PS: Please do take the minute to search the post, its not that hard, and it will make peoples lives a lot better, and this thread a lot shorter. Hugs! :p :)
Nin_estarSaerah
06-12-2008, 21:05
The new camera will most likely be used as a major part of the game. In the past few years FIRST has been pushing for more and more teams to learn how to use the cameras and sensors, so my guess is that being able to be entirely or partially autonomous will lend teams a large advantage.
Thanks for reading the thread. I agree about the camera, and so we should be thinking about the clue with regards to the camera. the ideas mentioned about moonlike objects or terrain, fishing, or finding a human player sound like good ideas.
Perhaps there is a moonlike object or lunar terrain, with a fishing task. a combination of several ideas? Perhaps we have to "fish" in craters?
I still hold by my former discovery: The Opah is the King of the Herrings. We've gone off in a billion different directions, and that is exactly what they wanted us to do.
Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?
alectronic
06-12-2008, 21:20
First off I'd just like to say that I think everyone is reading into this way to much. I doubt that there is any hidden message in the picture or that it has anything to do with the text that was on the reverse page of the book. I also doubt that it is a water based game because the field for that would just be to hard to build.
I think that the idea about the terrain being similar to the moon is practical, but the idea of it being a slick surface just screams lawsuit after some kid slips and breaks something while trying to get the robot on/off the field.
I also think that it could have something to do with the dot pattern on the fish. As mentioned before, the new camera this year is going to have a lot of capabilities and I think one of those is shape/pattern recognition. I also like the aforementioned idea of having the drivers windows painted black so that they can't see and must navigate using the camera.
Does anyone else get the feeling that they don't even design the game and that they just randomly release a clue and let the FIRST community come up with the ideas and then base them off of that?
I also think that there should be a prize at the end of the season for whomever had the closest guess, based off the hints, as to what the game was.
I think the prize is a fun idea, except for the fact that everyone's guesses are so similar / there is so much quoting and stuff.!! How on earth would you determine the winner? :)
alectronic
06-12-2008, 21:24
was opah already tried?
if you guys are looking for passwords, and I have no idea about character limitations and stuff, did anyone try last years manual password? or 2007?
maybe the second hint will lead to the password for the image. although, i must admit that I think that is way to advance. the image and all the talk of the water and stuff is totally just to throw everyone is a flurry. clearly, they succeeded.
Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?
That better have been in the FTC zone.
The FTC game uses hockey pucks, and the diagram is that of their field.
Not a hint. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?
Those are for the FTC game, face off.
Nin_estarSaerah
06-12-2008, 21:28
Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?
I do believe that this is from the FTC game, FIRST Face Off!
This game has several ideas that have been mentioned in this thread. usually, if an FTC game is like an FRC game, it is like the FRC game of the year before. This actually throws a new spin on things. The FRC game can't be too much like the FTC game, or it gives teams that do both an advantage.
EDIT: sorry, looks like other people posted about the FTC game while I was typing, sorry!
DMetalKong
06-12-2008, 21:31
Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?
Those are for the FTC game. Edit: already mentioned above.
Anyway, I've been messing around with the raw JPEG data in notepad, and by deleting the XML and a tagged section named xpacket, I magically made the image still load (although it won't load to Chief Delphi, says its not a valid image file), albeit at a lower resolution (now why did that happen?). New file size is 77.6k. To tell you the truth I have no idea what I did, or what relevance it might have.
Whoops. Forgot about FTC, sorry. /derailment
alectronic
06-12-2008, 21:33
I think it might actually be a water game, because I was talking to someone in the Arizona Regional and I asked her what the 2009 game would be, and she is like a water game, where the robots swim around. But then again, this can be just to throw us off.
as i mentioned earlier, FIRST is more intelligent then to tell regional directors / people not in the MA office anything like that. i know people have said that they have heard about the directors looking for covered pools - think about it - they expect high school students, presumably with little to know mentor support at least in the design aspect, to design a water capable robot? no, they don't. but i do agree with the idea that there will be common types of motors or wheels, mostly because of the new control sys. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to see a common thing like wheels for what I would call a test season.
Ice Berg
06-12-2008, 21:42
I don't know much about this whole encryption within an image thing but I've read the whole thread so far and can't remember anyone mentioning if they had tried running the seemingly identical image found at:
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm (site)
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/images/fish/moonfish1.jpg (image)
Was it only the FIRST released image that had these embedded encryptions, because if they were in both images it would probably rule it out as being anything meaningful.
New possibility.
With all the mathematicians, engineers and science folks out there, I'm surprised this didn't come up before now. After all, aren't all those formulas written in Greek letters?
Opah is the English spelling for the Greek word that means something like "CHEERS". Its often yelled out loud at celebrations, such as baptisms, big fat weddings and such.
Maybe we'll be building robots that dance, smash plates, wave handkerchiefs, and even spray a little Windex on people. Or maybe the game will be to pick up flowers and put them into bunt-cake shaped holders.
With the new controllers its a sure bet that some of the robots will behave like they've had a little too much ouzo.
OPAH !!
:)
Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:
1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.
2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."
"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.
alectronic
06-12-2008, 22:18
Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:
1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.
2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."
"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.
I think that pschre is more on track. rather then trying to decipher random text imbedded in an image or something, maybe put some time into researching HSIF or whatever. As far as I can tell, there is no clear meaning to the fish in particular except that it is rare. HSIF is the best bet, but everyones ideas are still entertaining.! keep it up!:]
Nate Smith
06-12-2008, 22:22
Could the game peices be pucks?
The FTC game pieces are pucks, I'm guessing that's what the reference is for...especially since the page you linked to also as the "FTC field kit" and the "sun tops" rough terrain squares...
lemon1324
06-12-2008, 23:04
Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:
1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.
2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."
"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.
hmmm...this might be the only plausible reason for the bleed text in the pic--to draw attention to fish backwards is HSIF. I still believe that the bleed text is not important. I do like the idea of Moon, Fish, Ocean as the game [or at least the game architecture]
hihihiflcl81pig
06-12-2008, 23:40
2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."
Thanks you for the definition.
As I was reading through the forum to catch up with what was being thought of, there were many people bringing up the possibility on encrypted text in the shading values of the pixel, and what the password that corresponded with the extraction of that data maybe. A few people asked to try numbers from posts, random numbers, and words that related to the fish. Then a few people said to try the passwords from past years, and this reminded me of last year.
One person went to the spot were the GPS coordinates were, said there was a statue of a heir and a tortoise, than went on to say that it was facing a building and blah, blah, blah. That person didn't even notice that they skipped the answer to the clue. Last year we over thought the clues, and we are doing the same again.
Look at what I quoted in the beginning of this post, sound familiar? To me thats the new control system exactly. Now what about the image of the fish? what does it mean? Could it be another saying/ moral/ folklore?
Fish out of water
We are all Fish out of water.
Programmers = LabVeiw
Electrical = Module system
Mechanical = They always have something new ;D
As for the image size, and oddities with the difference of the images having blue, and orange circles popping up, well I don't really know what's going on with that but, I do know we are all over thinking this problem.
Okay, definitely not an encrypted message inside the image file. Reason? As I and a couple of others here have found, this file was edited by Adobe photoshop on an Apple computer. The original file, which is about half the size, was not. Not stereotyping, but the people who use Apples aren't generally the kind of people to be encrypting things with steganography. Oh, well, speculation is fun.
Personally, I still think its about our impact on the marine environment, and it'll be some sort of representative game with pieces that are symbolic of our actions (somewhat like FLL this year).
tehpenguin
07-12-2008, 00:26
There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.
****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.
so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.
I doubt they scanned it... found this image here:
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/images/fish/moonfish1.jpg
http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
Google Images: "Moon Fish"
Enjoy!
-Oris-
Hey, I'm new here but me and a couple of friends were just trying to crack the password on the encryption even though we knew we wouldn't get anywhere. But we had an idea and tested one the originals that FRC copied the picture from and it had an encryption as well. (We ran stegdetect with a sensitivity of 10 to see if there was an encryption on the FIRST copy as well as the original.) Maybe this encryption is a dead end.
robonerd13
07-12-2008, 00:45
I think that maybe everybody is a little bit right. The terrain will be rough/bumpy but will also have a water aspect. This might be that the carpet is wet....you never know...:eek:
I think that maybe everybody is a little bit right. The terrain will be rough/bumpy but will also have a water aspect. This might be that the carpet is wet....you never know...:eek:
OOHH! :ahh: I like the idea of the carpet being wet. It would go with the water game, and it would go with rough/bumpy terrain. It would challenge the world of traction... I like it, alot.
alectronic
07-12-2008, 01:07
Maybe this encryption is a dead end.
I think that is quite clear. Although the idea of wet carpet is fun, it brings up the issue of arena restrictions again. A) How would you control the water on the carpet? AKA, puddles and stuff. B) That would require some sort of protection for the floor like a tarp or something. That would likely be just as impossible as the pool idea. Keep up the brainstorming! it is fun to read! leds hope the 2nd clue is not far away!
On another note, does anyone know how long to expect it to take to receive a control system, if we requested on early shipment around 11/18ish? Thanks.
Thanks you for the definition.
As I was reading through the forum to catch up with what was being thought of, there were many people bringing up the possibility on encrypted text in the shading values of the pixel, and what the password that corresponded with the extraction of that data maybe. A few people asked to try numbers from posts, random numbers, and words that related to the fish. Then a few people said to try the passwords from past years, and this reminded me of last year.
One person went to the spot were the GPS coordinates were, said there was a statue of a heir and a tortoise, than went on to say that it was facing a building and blah, blah, blah. That person didn't even notice that they skipped the answer to the clue. Last year we over thought the clues, and we are doing the same again.
Look at what I quoted in the beginning of this post, sound familiar? To me thats the new control system exactly. Now what about the image of the fish? what does it mean? Could it be another saying/ moral/ folklore?
Fish out of water
We are all Fish out of water.
Programmers = LabVeiw
Electrical = Module system
Mechanical = They always have something new ;D
As for the image size, and oddities with the difference of the images having blue, and orange circles popping up, well I don't really know what's going on with that but, I do know we are all over thinking this problem.
I totally agree that everyone is over analysing this thing.
What about:
1 Fish 2 Fish Red Fish Blue Fish
Red Alliance has 1 of something while Blue Alliance has 2 of something?
alectronic
07-12-2008, 01:21
I totally agree that everyone is over analysing this thing.
What about:
1 Fish 2 Fish Red Fish Blue Fish
Red Alliance has 1 of something while Blue Alliance has 2 of something?
I am going to stop analyzing, or I will go insane. But maybe it has something to do with rhymes about fish? Exactly what andyb is saying, but is there any others that are maybe well known? Could there be a pop-culture reference? Also, does anyone know if there was / where to find the 2006 game hints? (I am sure they are on CD somewhere, but buried very deep. :) )
Also, does anyone know if there was / where to find the 2006 game hints? (I am sure they are on CD somewhere, but buried very deep. :) )A quick CD search for "2006 game hint" turned up the following: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41013.
The hint that year was a riddle which, for the sake of sanity, I choose not to repost here. dlavery was also very active dropping red herrings, which I seem to remember there being another thread about. (That thread is probably referenced at least once in the 2006 game hint thread. If not, search is in the orange bar.)
hihihiflcl81pig
07-12-2008, 03:19
I agree, the only thing that FIRST does encrypt is the manual, and that is so there is more time for people to leech from the download server, instead of crashing it, trying to hand it out once the game is released. In past years we have gotten riddles, sayings, folklore, or something of that sort. These clues are meant to be solved by reasonable means, not rainbow tables. Think of the clues as language arts =D.
RoboGeek99
07-12-2008, 10:14
So were definitely building sushi making robots...
not really
In all seriousness here's the conclusion ive reached (after reading the entire thread)
ive kinda combined ideas from many different people...
1)i highly doubt that there is an encription on the image but if im wrong and you need a password like most have been asking for try obvious things...dean kamen, woodie flowers, etc.
2)As for the game, im shooting for alliances of four with black plexi dividing them longwise and to the robots have to cross the division through ramps (34 degrees) so go into camera mode
3) each division will have different terrain (so two types one for each side)
the alliances will have to pass the gamepieces(various shapes) to each other and their will be 1 super opah thing for major points
...im in a hurry...ill check back later to clarify any of what i said...wish i had more time
a repeat of of one the most overused expression in the thread
thats my 2 cents
DMetalKong
07-12-2008, 10:18
Gah! Dave changed his signature again.
For the five: with your decorum, we shall thrive.
Edit: Ok, now that he has posted a series of 5 numbers, I'm thinking zip code. 56345 happens to be the zip for Little Falls, MN. Then again, it could have nothing to do with places.
Edit #2: Does anyone know if his signature contained anything else unusual before the "To the five, you keep me alive"? That was when I started tracking it, but the sequence could have started before then.
gorrilla
07-12-2008, 10:44
Gah! Dave changed his signature again.
Edit: Ok, now that he has posted a series of 5 numbers, I'm thinking zip code. 56345 happens to be the zip for Little Falls, MN. Then again, it could have nothing to do with places.
Edit #2: Does anyone know if his signature contained anything else unusual before the "To the five, you keep me alive"? That was when I started tracking it, but the sequence could have started before then.
here
http://www.littlefallsmn.com/Homepage.php
all i found was that it was were Charles Lindbergh lived? And theres this Ripley Esker thing too? And a fishing museum too?
I tried the zip code for the password, and it doesn't work. I'm looking into that fishing museum though.
Benjwgarner
07-12-2008, 11:56
But here's the real kicker. FIRST brought the picture into a photo editing program and changed the compression of the JPEG. Thus if they wanted to, they would have removed the background text (or if it had nothing to do with the game).
Thus, I believe, that the background text (be it the text itself, or the fact that it's there and/or it's backwards) was intentionally left there and is part of the hint.
Or, they could have left it in to throw us off the trail...
For what it is worth the original image seems to be copyrighted by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industial Research Organisation (CSIRO) of Australia. Go to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearch/caab_search.caab_report?spcode=37268001 and click the little “image info” link under our new favorite photo at the top of the page. It should take you to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearch/caab_search.image_details?ref=37268001a-t.jpg with the copyright info.
The photo is available for purchase in high resolution here: http://www.frdc.com.au/shop/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=37268001-DLD.tif&Store_Code=photo if say you wanted to publish it in a book as an illustration.
The photo FIRST is using as Clue #1 seems to come from a simple Google Images search for “moonfish” which in turn originated here (as previously noted in this thread): http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/images/fish/moonfish1.jpg which is linked to from this parent webpage: http://www.australianseafoodexports.com/fishorderonline.htm
The image used on www.australianseafoodexports.com has the reverse text in the background as does the FIRST Clue #1 image. The GDC did not covertly plant any hidden messages in the reverse text. They have better things to do with their time. More likely the Australian seafood export company scanned a photo of a “moonfish” they had handy in some book and the text on the backside of the page (probably about some entirely different and non-related fish) came through on the scan. My bet is this is the book: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=2181 but it may be this one also: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=3551. I don’t have a copy of either book myself but may can find one at the office when I get back next week. If anyone lives near a university with a marine research program they might want to check the university library and see what they can find.
Given that last year the clue was in fact a latitude and longitude coordinate it might also be worth considering the CAAB Taxon Code for Lampris guttatus is 37 268001 which could easily be construed as a latitude in North America. If a Clue # 2 comes along it might be a reference to a longitude. I doubt that the GDC would give us a lat/lon 2 years in a row but you never know.
If you look at the table of contents for the second book, (http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=3551) moonfish is listed. The previous fish? The milkfish. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkfish) Doesn't the milkfish look like the other fish bleeding through the page of the picture?? And if you do a google image search for "milkfish", you can see that it has a "deeply forked" tail.
Also, the book is published by CSRIO Publishing and FDRC. CSRIO is an anagram for cRIOs! FDRC = FRC, with a D?
Anyway, would it be so hard for them to do a water game just so we quit obsessing over it? Maybe water would be the "game piece." Maybe buckets of water and robots have to move a certain amount of water to other buckets?
here
http://www.littlefallsmn.com/Homepage.php
all i found was that it was were Charles Lindbergh lived? And theres this Ripley Esker thing too? And a fishing museum too?
That's interesting - the kidnapping of Lindbergh's baby leads me to the one important game piece idea, but this is just where he grew up so perhaps this is completely wrong.
Also, the Mississippi river flows through this town. So, it's definitely a water game. 100%.
Elgin Clock
07-12-2008, 12:49
500th post in this clue thread!! YAY!
We now return you back to our regularly scheduled conspiracy theories already in progress! :D
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