Game Hint #2

[Steven Sigley]

In the thread for Game Hint #1, somebody brought up that you can find an Opah on the stamp of Madeira, Portugal. The Flag of Madeira looks like it might be the layout of the playing field.

http://www.nat.is/images/portugal_madeira_flag.gif

The blue could be icy/slick sections and the red could be a raised portion of the field.

I would like it to be a 4 sided rack like 07, but hey I'm just dreaming.

I'm guessing a field with little holes in it like craters along with a football shaped playing piece, most fits the "Crater Football Field" in (i think someone said Dover) and the crater like skin of the fish along with it's shape.

[Steven Sigley]

Yeah, someone mentioned curtains earlier, and I thought that would be a very cool addition, but some did say earlier also, that they had beta tested this, and they lagged while having the laptop viewing thought the camera, and controlling the bot, so it might not happen unless they fixed that lag, which would be a cool competition, blindfolded, pretty much, and can only rely on the camera.

What If your robot had to remove the curtains, thus the faster your alliance did it, the faster they got an actual visual advantage rather than relying on the camera. Could be a quick objective at the beginning, and maybe even bonus for doing it during autonomous.

[wooodman4449]

i already posted this earlier but, my school in phoenix is on central and we have hosted the kickoff the past couple of years. i thought this was where they got "get connected" because we reconnected with many of the teams we have faced in the past year. otherwise, the light rail is a good idea, whoever suggested it, but i wouldn't know how the GCD would know about it, as it is fairly new.

[ExarKun666]

I would like it to be a 4 sided rack like 07, but hey I'm just dreaming.

I'm guessing a field with little holes in it like craters along with a football shaped playing piece, most fits the "Crater Football Field" in (i think someone said Dover) and the crater like skin of the fish along with it's shape.

I am not sure about a four sided rack, but I think the four part of the clue might have to do with four different types of game pieces, or a 4 player free for all, maybe, and the craters go along with rugged terrain.

[ExarKun666]

What If your robot had to remove the curtains, thus the faster your alliance did it, the faster they got an actual visual advantage rather than relying on the camera. Could be a quick objective at the beginning, and maybe even bonus for doing it during autonomous.

That would be an awesome addition to that kind of game, I would imagine that doing that with a camera as your only visual would actually be very difficult, and they would have to make the curtains a certain color, so the y can be easily detected.

[jerry w]

--------------------------------------------
on another note... i have some knowledge of the camera as i was on the beta team for 79 Krunch so ........... the camera kicks face this year and we successfully tracked a green light (preformed the rack and roll autonomous) very well while watching it all parallel on our laptop wirelessly... so watching the camera while driving is a possibility but (this might have just been us) we found lag while sending cam. data as well as joystick data at the same time.

Jerry... if your reading this can you confirm or elaborate if there are any more questions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The delay from when the camera captures an image until it is displayed on the driver station varies between two and five seconds. Most drivers would find this to be infuriatingly slow.

However, with the processing power on the robot, the pattern matching, color detection, or pixel counting happens in a few hundred milliseconds. The robot reaction time with imaging processing is actually faster than the driver can react with full visibility of the field.

Though it might be fun to have the camera image at the driver station, it is unlikely to provide the driver any edge during the game.

jerry

[GaryVoshol]

i already posted this earlier but, my school in phoenix is on central and we have hosted the kickoff the past couple of years.Yes you did, but you post your team number in your profile as being "911", so we can't tell what team you're really on.
i thought this was where they got "get connected" because we reconnected with many of the teams we have faced in the past year. otherwise, the light rail is a good idea, whoever suggested it, but i wouldn't know how the GCD would know about it, as it is fairly new.The GDC knows everything! ;)

[ExarKun666]

The delay from when the camera captures an image until it is displayed on the driver station varies between two and five seconds. Most drivers would find this to be infuriatingly slow.

However, with the processing power on the robot, the pattern matching, color detection, or pixel counting happens in a few hundred milliseconds. The robot reaction time with imaging processing is actually faster than the driver can react with full visibility of the field.

Though it might be fun to have the camera image at the driver station, it is unlikely to provide the driver any edge during the game.

jerry

Well that's interesting, to bad about the 2-5 sec. delays. It could provide a edge if it were a curtain game, but I'm not sure how well that idea would work out now, reading your comment.

[Zach Purser]

drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;


I was wondering if drive could be a golf reference. There is a place called Bogey Pro on Minnetonka (15109 Minnetonka Industrial Rd Minnetonka, MN 55345-2112). Golf bots anyone?

Alternately the drive and pickup references could be a car dealership reference, but I only see Minnetonka Motors (15115 Minnetonka Industrial Rd Minnetonka, MN 55345-2112)

The ice arena that was mentioned before is on Williston, but that intersects with Minnetonka Blvd. Considering the first clue seems to line up with Zamboni an ice arena would be a good fit, but I'm not convinced.

Goin Postal as mentioned before is also a good fit, but I can't figure out where that clue would lead us. Mailbox? We'll be moving boxes? Postal? We'll have to climb a post? And there is the possibility that it could mean it's a shooting game, but that kinda seems in poor taste for a FIRST clue.

[wooodman4449]

Yes you did, but you post your team number in your profile as being "911", so we can't tell what team you're really on.

thanks for that, all fixed now.

[RMiller]

so lets summarize what we have so far: A combination of capture the flag, with ramps and slick areas 'protecting' the game pieces, robots can use a laser tag like system to disable other robots temporally, and the for bonus points, you have to stack game pieces in your opponents base. What does CD think: best game ever?

One of the tasks for teams when doing testing for the viability of hydrogen fuels cells as a power source was to create a rough game that used the fuel cells based on what the team found. 1816 roughed out a game that sounds somewhat similar to what you are saying here. So, something along those lines has actually been submitted to FIRST and it has been a few years now since that was submitted.
-Ryan

[logicalyrandom]

You may know this already but just in case :) ...
There is a forum here in ChiefDelphi that is called FRC Game Design.
Each year after the official season comes to a close, Dave usually starts a new thread for the 'next' season like this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148) one. (I say it that way because I think the GDC is way out there but, of course, I'm clueless.) If you guys think suggestions made in the hint threads are good, make a mental note to suggest them in the thread that is created after the 2009 season. That way, the ideas are sure to be viewed and not lost here in this thread - which will, by that time, be old news - very old news. Hard to believe, I know.

Ah. I didn't know that. Thanks.

[jnutzmann]

I just recently looked at this clue and took a little different approach at deciphering it than others. I took this set of numbers as Cartesian coordinates to a vector that points outward. If the earth's center was placed at the origin, the vector would point to 76.4095839 degrees north latitude and 59.21185 degrees west longitude. I determined this by using the spherical coordinate system parametrization to convert to latitude and longitude. This is a point near the shore of Greenland (see below). This could also point to some sort of ice in the game??? Any thoughts about this approach?

http://nutz.selfip.net/map.jpg

[wooodman4449]

I just recently looked at this clue and took a little different approach at deciphering it than others. I took this set of numbers as Cartesian coordinates to a vector that points outward. If the earth's center was placed at the origin, the vector would point to 76.4095839 degrees north latitude and 59.21185 degrees west longitude. I determined this by using the spherical coordinate system parametrization to convert to latitude and longitude. This is a point near the shore of Greenland (see below). This could also point to some sort of ice in the game??? Any thoughts about this approach?

http://nutz.selfip.net/map.jpg

even if it doesn't come out to be true, thanks for the effort.

[Alan Anderson]

...I took this set of numbers...

What set of numbers?

[gorrilla]

I just recently looked at this clue and took a little different approach at deciphering it than others. I took this set of numbers as Cartesian coordinates to a vector that points outward. If the earth's center was placed at the origin, the vector would point to 76.4095839 degrees north latitude and 59.21185 degrees west longitude. I determined this by using the spherical coordinate system parametrization to convert to latitude and longitude. This is a point near the shore of Greenland (see below). This could also point to some sort of ice in the game??? Any thoughts about this approach?

http://nutz.selfip.net/map.jpg


well isent the greenland ice cap the biggest in the world?

oh, and dover england? are we crossing the channel?:D

[Robert Cawthon]

And where does the moonfish come in?

EDIT: For future reference to new thread readers, it was found here: http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

Maybe the name of the game this year will be "Shoot for the moon!" :rolleyes:

[Gary_Pierson]

Four different locations:
Paramount refers to the west,
Phoenix refers to the south,
Minnetonka, the north,
and Dover, Delaware is east.

Compasses involved in the game?
Those have been previewed in the last couple of years.

Four different tasks, one that can be completed in each location?

Or am I taking it too literally?

[ChrisH]

Last night, after dinner out with friends, including CDs resident Grammar Curmudgeon, the beautiful KarenH and I were musing on the #2 clue as we drove home. Since it was still fairly early and we only live about 10 minutes away (in good traffic, like at 9:30pm) we decided that the best way to extend the evening was to go see what is really on Colorado in Paramount, CA. Boots (or tires) on the ground beat internet speculation any day.

Colorado Ave parallels Paramount Blvd, a major north-south street in the area. It is one short block west of Paramount. Most of the lots on the Paramount side are commercial and most on the west side are some form of residential. There are exceptions in both cases.

Colorado Ave has three sections.

The Northern section has a children's dentist and the back side of several businesses. Including a furniture store and a mexican restaurant. The rest of the lots are multi-family residential (duplexes)

South of Roscrans, a major east-west street, Colorado Ave gets swallowed into a giant swap meet for several blocks. The middle section is mostly residential but there were two businesses of interest. One was a printer (one way to make your mark) and the other a gasket store called Bentley's. The gasket place also deals in appliances and HVAC equipment. The east side of the street had some apartment buildings and the west side was mostly single family homes. This section ends as the back way into a strip mall on Paramount.

The southern section ends between City Hall and the local hospital (the body shop?). In about the middle of this section is the place in the attached picture. Across the street was some kind of equipment yard with many high lift forklifts, lighting trucks and other heavy equipment. It had a gate onto Colorado, but it was apparently not the main entrance. This area seemed to be small manufacturing/commercial but there were not many names on buildings and it was hard to tell were one place ended and the next began. Zamboni seemed to take up their entire block. They are BTW at the corner of Colorado and Madison. A coincidence? There was also a lumber yard in this area, the main entrance was on Paramount but they had a back gate onto Colorado.

While there are other things it could be, Zamboni (whether it applies to the ice resurfacing machines or their apparel line) is a strong candidate as the answer to this part of the riddle. But what does it tell us about the game? that we will be playing on a slippery surface or one that needs to be reconditioned frequently? or just that they are saving money by not turning the heat on in the arenas? Anybody want to make detailed investigations of the other locations?

Time to go do something useful, before I have to go visit Bentley

ChrisH

[joshsmithers]

I just recently looked at this clue and took a little different approach at deciphering it than others. I took this set of numbers as Cartesian coordinates to a vector that points outward. If the earth's center was placed at the origin, the vector would point to 76.4095839 degrees north latitude and 59.21185 degrees west longitude. I determined this by using the spherical coordinate system parametrization to convert to latitude and longitude. This is a point near the shore of Greenland (see below). This could also point to some sort of ice in the game??? Any thoughts about this approach?

Nice work! Looks very icy. It goes along very well with EricH's theory that he had at the begining of this thread.....

[ChrisH]

What set of numbers?

I think somebody looked up last year's clue by mistake. Sometimes we forget the Inernet is persistent as well as ephemeral.

[synth3tk]

Four different locations:
Paramount refers to the west,
Phoenix refers to the south,
Minnetonka, the north,
and Dover, Delaware is east.

Compasses involved in the game?
Those have been previewed in the last couple of years.

Four different tasks, one that can be completed in each location?

Or am I taking it too literally?
Wow, that's pretty good! It would line up with how the GDC uses hints.

[EricH]

Zamboni seemed to take up their entire block. They are BTW at the corner of Colorado and Madison. A coincidence? There was also a lumber yard in this area, the main entrance was on Paramount but they had a back gate onto Colorado.
Considering who figured out the 2006 clue, or part of it, I'm not so sure that's a coincidence.

I was thinking someone should drive out there and investigate.:)

[CrazyCarl461]

The delay from when the camera captures an image until it is displayed on the driver station varies between two and five seconds. Most drivers would find this to be infuriatingly slow.

However, with the processing power on the robot, the pattern matching, color detection, or pixel counting happens in a few hundred milliseconds. The robot reaction time with imaging processing is actually faster than the driver can react with full visibility of the field.

Though it might be fun to have the camera image at the driver station, it is unlikely to provide the driver any edge during the game.

jerry

It also states on page 2-5 of the FRC Programming Guide:

"You can send image data to the host computer or perform live front panel debugging only during development, not during the FRC competition."

So that pretty much makes official what you were saying is already fairly unreasonable. Only the image processing VIs.. as it should be!

[Arthur S]

does anyone see something... like in the map...

We tried searching everything in google maps and no luck with any kind of image that would've showed up. We also tried zoming out at every stage and could'nt see anything.

[ChrisH]

The delay from when the camera captures an image until it is displayed on the driver station varies between two and five seconds. Most drivers would find this to be infuriatingly slow.

However, with the processing power on the robot, the pattern matching, color detection, or pixel counting happens in a few hundred milliseconds. The robot reaction time with imaging processing is actually faster than the driver can react with full visibility of the field.

Though it might be fun to have the camera image at the driver station, it is unlikely to provide the driver any edge during the game.

jerry


We tried using the camera to drive during our initial shakedown of the Beta system. We found that the delay increased dramatically as the robot got further away from the control station and after a certain range was exceeded we lost the signal entirely. That range was not much more than the length of the field. We decided that driving by video is not going to happen just yet, even in practice.

We have just started playing with the camera again to see how it performs for tracking objects etc. We were quite impressed with the ability of the color sensing VI to accurately track and determine image size in a wide variety of lighting conditions. You can see the pictures on the FIRST forum here: http://forums.usfirst.org/showpost.php?p=21334&postcount=1

You can almost play in the dark. The whole setup seems to be much less sensitive to lighting variations. We are thinking that it will add a whole new dimension to the game.

[Zach Purser]

We tried searching everything in google maps and no luck with any kind of image that would've showed up. We also tried zoming out at every stage and could'nt see anything.

Did anyone notice that the aerial view of the Phoenix location looks like a circle-triangle-square?

link (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=15714+Colorado+Ave,+Paramount,+CA+90723+(Fra nk+J+Zamboni+%26+Co)&daddr=2929+N+Central+Ave+%23+1400,+Phoenix,+AZ+850 12+(Microsoft+Corporation)+to:44.938557,-93.465328+to:Evergreen+Dr&hl=en&geocode=FT0gBQId_P_0-CEgNTvoOt331g%3BFZbj_gEdIuZR-SE-ZUaaTrMrcw%3B%3BFT18agIdTNUk-w&mra=dme&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=2&sz=13&sll=44.943903,-93.495369&sspn=0.100117,0.150719&ie=UTF8&ll=33.481098,-112.072257&spn=0.003803,0.00471&t=h&z=18)

[GreyIOutcast]

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments

So we've got some notice of teamwork for "Central in Phoenix", obviously.
We've got a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka, which seems to be a lake with a lot of ice fishing, and we had an arctic fish for the first game hint.
There's a football field on Evergreen in Dover...

Now the only one that isn't all that obvious is the first one.

What sort of shape do all the points make on the map? Is it a loop? I heard some of them make a triangle, but is that all 4 of them, and one of them is just inbetween a line?

And no, I haven't read every single post yet.

EDIT: Oh, and also. I think I have some more thought on the thing. With the additional processing power, there must be a reason behind the upgrade, so I'm going to take a wild guess that maybe "getting connected" doesn't mean teamwork, but instead swapping to tele-operated mode. Which could mean it's autonomous for the first portion, just like last year.

[Engineer]

MAZE!

[Zach Purser]

Continuing to chum the waters with random trivia, there is a type of battery called a Zamboni pile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile). Certainly a battery could "get connected".

[EricH]

So we've got some notice of teamwork for "Central in Phoenix", obviously.
We've got a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka, which seems to be a lake with a lot of ice fishing, and we had an arctic fish for the first game hint.
There's a football field on Evergreen in Dover...

Now the only one that isn't all that obvious is the first one.

See ChrisH's post on that. He lives in the area. Note the Zamboni company being on the street.

[DJW]

If this game does turn out to be capture the flag, then YAY!!!:D

[Robert Cawthon]

I think some of my brain's magic smoke leaked out trying to think about this. It seems to me that we need to think more outside the box than we have previously. My head hurts thinking about it.:confused:

[xnaut]

The delay from when the camera captures an image until it is displayed on the driver station varies between two and five seconds. Most drivers would find this to be infuriatingly slow.

However, with the processing power on the robot, the pattern matching, color detection, or pixel counting happens in a few hundred milliseconds. The robot reaction time with imaging processing is actually faster than the driver can react with full visibility of the field.

Though it might be fun to have the camera image at the driver station, it is unlikely to provide the driver any edge during the game.

jerry

This is what i meant.... just said smarter... and with more actual data :(

During autonomous.. when your not sending picture data... the camera was very responsive and we got our camera to follow a green light easily (we were only held back by our servos ability's)

[Zach Purser]

And just when I was feeling good about the Zamboni clue I found the Paramount ME™ Robotic Telescope System in Golden Colorado. link (http://www.bisque.com/Tom/satellites/Iridum-Flares.asp)

Iridium Satellite Transits Moon then Flares!

This interesting video was captured the morning of June 9, 2007 with a Paramount ME from Golden Colorado. The satellite Iridium 66 transits the Moon moments before flaring. (Copyright 2007 Software Bisque, Inc.)

[Elgin Clock]

And just when I was feeling good about the Zamboni clue I found the Paramount ME™ Robotic Telescope System in Golden Colorado. link (http://www.bisque.com/Tom/satellites/Iridum-Flares.asp)
There is a Paramount Theater in Colorado as well... right in downtown Denver. lol :ahh:

[Renee Becker-Blau]

The Moonfish = Moon = Round/ Circles for the game, or footballs because of it's shape.

"Take your machine out of the shop" Drive out of the starting zone.

"Stop by and get connected" Reference to Autonomous Mode? Perhaps we have to send data to the robot, or connect to a program?

"Drive by and make a pickup." Pick up the game pieces, and based on the next line it sounds like it's "off" the field? Or maybe tiered levels.

"Then head to the field." Field, "Broad, Level, Open expanse of land" (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/field) If the field has levels, maybe that's where we end the game.

I have no idea what the names of cities/lakes/streets mean, I was just looking at the actions, not the places as well. Back to work.... or back to surfing Delphi :P

[rsegrest]

Littleswimmer14:
I think you're exactly right but try this out:

1. Take your machine out of the shop - Starting out on a platform maybe?

2. Stop by and get connected - Maybe either picking up a 'trailer' or connecting to another robot?

3. Drive by and make a pickup - Putting something into the trailer (could be either by dumping or picking something up and dropping it)?

4. Then head to the field - Take the somethings and place them in a scoring position?

What do you think?

[xnaut]

i think this forum is dead (dying)... we've pretty much covered it all(or so we think) ...
if anyone else has any brand new ideas...... lets see um..

also... on a side note... is a member of team pink reading these? I've got a question...:P

[RKElectricalman]

I think if we get "connected" it'll be with an upgraded version of that IR board.

Maybe we'll be interfacing with the field or other robots through that?

I foresee the return of a few things:
Hybrid Mode
Vision Camera Benefits
IR-Communication
End Game bonuses
Alliances (2 or 3)

and some more things that i'm toying with in my mind.... hmmm

[MiniNerd24]

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Game Hint # 2

Good Morning Teams,

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

23 Days until Kickoff
See you then


Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments

Just a repost so we don't have to loook at the first post for the clue...

So do the cities have any reall meaning to this or is it just part of the riddle?

[logicalyrandom]

Just a repost so we don't have to loook at the first post for the clue...

So do the cities have any reall meaning to this or is it just part of the riddle?

We've been debating that for some 20 pages now. I say they were included as red herrings, others disagree. Take your best guess.

[SamC]

It means they want to promote good health and physically active students --return of the human player!:yikes:

[Zach Purser]

So do the cities have any reall meaning to this or is it just part of the riddle?

[House impersonation]
Everything has meaning! Even the semicolons have meaning! Now get back to overanalyzing the clue!
[/House impersonation]

[Jim E]

I've finished reading all 20 pages.

Can I get my 30 minutes back?

I think the game piece is a football shaped object. They will be strewn all over the field in a random fashion.

The robots are the Zamboni s, cleaning the slippery surface (something other than carpet) of the rough terrain.

The camera will detect which color of dumping station to go to to collect the points. Since the OPHA fish has those high fins, there may even be an added element to shoot the footballs through an elevated target for increased points.

The controller's ability to communicate with other robots on the field? Perhaps there is a twist to autonomous that hasn't been revealed yet.

That's it. I'm done on this thread.

[Booksy]

Isn't the new camera just visual spectrum? How would we be able to convert that into useful autonomous data?

I don't see your point...

Something me and my teacher have been discussing as a scenario is having a certain coloured game piece/area/thing and having to find that piece/area/thing in autonomous mode.

Another possibility we found was having a raised platform with a hole and some coloured game pieces in the whole, so that the robot has to pick up the pieces autonomously, deciding which colour to pick (as the driver could not see):


__ ___
/ | _____ | \
/ | | | | \
/____|__|___|__|____\


square in middle is blue or red block. Driver can't see block.

Moonfish: kind of like fishing
Fancy camera: must be used for this
Uneven surface: check.

Just a thought.:]

[skimoose]

"stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix"

At the intersection on North and South Central Avenues in Phoenix is Patriots Square Park (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=patriot+square+park+phoenix&sll=33.447709,-112.074473&sspn=0.001441,0.002414&ie=UTF8&ll=33.447762,-112.074454&spn=0.001441,0.002414&t=h&z=19&iwloc=A).
One of the unique features about this park is an underground parking garage accessed via tunnels.

"then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover"

The Chunnel between England and France counts as one. I'll assume that subway tunnels are out (sorry, New York City), or we'd have a lot more.

Yes and the west portal to the EuroTunnel is located in Dover, UK. Just south of the tunnel entrance you'll find Evergreen Gardenwork (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=evergreen+dover+uk&sll=33.498322,-112.089384&sspn=0.737503,1.235962&ie=UTF8&ll=51.088995,1.158028&spn=0.017359,0.038624&t=h&z=15&iwloc=A).

So passing objects from one level to another, or robots on different levels isn't all that far fetched.

Ah, and for those Discworld fans out there.

Not at all! I, too, am familiar with the exploits of Moist Van Lipwig! :cool:

Yes, but Moist is no longer Going Postal, he's Making Money. Therefore, me thinks the Color of Magic is Green and the green light will be returning! :P

[billbo911]

See the picture. That's all I'm saying.


. http://billbo911.smugmug.com/photos/435413288_wbCYu-L.jpg


.:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

[alectronic]

On google maps all Coordinates indicated by the clue end up going from near the west coast (The Paramount Cafe in Denver, Colorado and the town of Central, Phoenix) To the midwest (Minnetonka, Minnesota) To the East (Evergreen Field in Dover, Ohio).

If you put all of the points together it forms triangle similar to the one in the FIRST logo, so it might have a connection to what the game piece is this year, and it seems that there are going to be different actions related to the game piece (picking up, connecting) and then we need to place it somewhere ( The field) No clue how this relates to the fish though.

anyone wanna bet that the 3rd clue, if there is one, will be a square? triangle, circleish thing, square? just for fun? who knows!

[rl1806]

I have compiled a table of past games and made a prediction of the 2009 game. On even years the game object is a ball, on odd years the game is Tic-Tac-Toe, and after the 2004 game used the IR sensor the next three years used the CMU cam.
With the new control system being able to track colors with the new camera, I am predicting we will be using the camera to track different objects. I think we will have to use the camera to pick out red or blue bins during autonomous mode for bonus points and then stack them in a Tic-Tac-Toe style group.

[logicalyrandom]

[House impersonation]
Everything has meaning! Even the semicolons have meaning! Now get back to overanalyzing the clue!
[/House impersonation]

well of course. They end statements. Otherwise we couldn't use the riddle.

[Zach Purser]

well of course. They end statements. Otherwise we couldn't use the riddle.

Sure, but so do periods. And while my grammar skills are lacking I would probably have used commas unless I was writing code.

[Zach Purser]

Yes and the west portal to the EuroTunnel is located in Dover, UK. Just south of the tunnel entrance you'll find Evergreen Gardenwork (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=evergreen+dover+uk&sll=33.498322,-112.089384&sspn=0.737503,1.235962&ie=UTF8&ll=51.088995,1.158028&spn=0.017359,0.038624&t=h&z=15&iwloc=A).

So passing objects from one level to another, or robots on different levels isn't all that far fetched.


Ok, taking this idea one step further, your car is actually moved through the Chunnel on a train, so maybe there is something to shuttle your robot through the tunnel. Also, another special thing about the Chunnel is that you drive your car on the opposite side of the road after you pass through. So maybe you have to drive clockwise around the arena but if you go through the tunnel you have to drive counterclockwise.

[ExarKun666]

Okay ,srry for stealing some previous thoughts, but I am just meshing, then together to what I think may be fit for the game.
First of all I like to reiterate my point before of rough terrain, I think that will most definitely be ramps or a raised areas in the game, another thing is the get connected part of the hint, I still believe is referring to the robots ability to communicate to other robots, as well as the camera being able to detect a certain area or object, maybe the zamboni thought is referencing slick surfaces, as mentioned before. I don't think the locations, have to much to do with it personally.

[EricH]

I have compiled a table of past games and made a prediction of the 2009 game. On even years the game object is a ball, on odd years the game is Tic-Tac-Toe, and after the 2004 game used the IR sensor the next three years used the CMU cam.
With the new control system being able to track colors with the new camera, I am predicting we will be using the camera to track different objects. I think we will have to use the camera to pick out red or blue bins during autonomous mode for bonus points and then stack them in a Tic-Tac-Toe style group.
I can fill in your missing areas. 2002 had a bonus; get part of your robot into your home area.
2002 was another "feeder" game, but it was also a shoving match.
2003 was pretty much a shoving match--the stacks were attacked if you tried them. That, and the ramp was a battlefield.

Sensors were present in 2002 and 2003; they were light sensors. Some of the bins (2003) and all of the goals (2002) had reflective tape if you wanted to go autonomous.

I don't think the pattern goes deep enough to draw a firm conclusion. You could be right, but I'm thinking probably not.

[alectronic]

This is team 2614's guess.
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado [color-auto] in Paramount [very important]; stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix; link up with another robot visually, follow it around like schooling fish (the opah is specifically a non-schooling fish, a misleading clue or a 3rd robot that is independent). {could be referring to route 66 passing through Pheonix, following some-sort of trail}
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; place objects (probably colored or different shaped) into the other robot and vice versa (like dump trucks) then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover. end the match on a certain area of the field (possibly a different color than the rest of the carpet) {white cliffs of Dover in the English Channel, sailors would know that they were almost home when they saw them}

I think this has some good ideas. But I found something that may help support it. For a long time FIRST has used WPI to host videos and stuff for volunteers, but also videos from conferences. So, I looked around for a while and found the '08 workshops. I have no idea when these were, or who was able to attend them, but they show the cRIO so they were probably over the summer or something. (http://first.wpi.edu/Workshops/2008CON.html) Of the presentations there are lots that have the presentation linked, but also a few that dont. For example, the presentation called "Underwater FIRST! What if Your Next Project Takes You to the Edge of Your Comfort Zone?" does not link a video. Why would FIRST / NI have a video about FIRST Underwater? I still think a water game is not it, but then why would they have this workshop? I am not making it up, check it out at the link above. The rest of the videos seem 'normal' and reasonable activities for frc teams, but this one sticks out to me as an outlier.
Anyways, as another idea for the locations, does anyone know the team numbers for a team that is based in each of these spots? If there even is one? Perhaps combining them will give coordinates for something since they have used coordinates before? or, would the letters of the states which have a city with that name be re-arrange to form a word or phrase? Just some thoughts...

[EricH]

Anyways, as another idea for the locations, does anyone know the team numbers for a team that is based in each of these spots? If there even is one? Perhaps combining them will give coordinates for something since they have used coordinates before? or, would the letters of the states which have a city with that name be re-arrange to form a word or phrase? Just some thoughts...There isn't a team in Paramount, CA. Closest team would be either FRC 2174 to the north, FRC 1438 to the south, FRC 1135 (defunct) to the east, or one of the South Bay area teams to the west.

CA, AZ, MN, DE (assuming that it's in Delaware)
Amazed C--Hmm, that sounds promising. Or maybe Maze CAD? Ouch.

CA, AZ, MN, NH (If New Hampshire)
????

If in England
CA, AZ, MN, UK
?????

[roboraven15]

has FIRST ever used a rough or slick terrain? i dont remember them ever doing it. I still want to see them use EZ-Glide synthetic ice.

[Justin Montois]

This is what Colin and I came up with...

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
-Tele-operated control,drive and position your robot for autonomous
-Robot Starting position may be on a ramp,(Colorado Mountains) and Paramount can also mean of chief importance, meaning the robots may have to get on the ramp at the end of the match for all important bonus points.


stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
-Autonomous operation may not be at the start of the match. "Getting Connected" may mean that you start autonomous after you get your robot in position after maybe 10 or 15 seconds of driver operation, robots are disabled(Stop) and then you "get connected" with you code or robo-coach to make a play.
-With Microsoft on Central Ave, the Windows reference might be referring to these 10-15 seconds as a "window" of opportunity.



drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonnka in Minnetonka;
-I think it means Lake Minnetonka, in the town of Minnetonka, in January it's frozen.
-I think the playing surface in this "area" of the field will be HDPE, or a type of Ice Substitute.
- What you have to pick up remains to be seen.


then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
-If a football field reference maybe there are zones on the field like 2002


Only 21 more days!!!!

[b3t4_2836]

The opah is circular like a hockey puck or a curling stone (or what ever its called). Fish are slippery like ice. I like the ice game idea. That'd be fun :)

[EricH]

has FIRST ever used a rough or slick terrain? i dont remember them ever doing it. I still want to see them use EZ-Glide synthetic ice.
They have. 2003, 2004, 2006, all on top of ramps or platforms. 2003 and 2004 were HDPE; 2006 was Lexan above diamond plate ramps.

[Siri]

I don't know how this would be pertinent, but it's interesting:
Minnetonka City Hall is at 14600 Minnetonka Ave
Paramount City Hall is at 14600 Colorado Ave
I can't find where Pheonix City Hall is now, but back in 1888, it was on Washington and Central. (Apparently it's not any more.)
However, Dover, DE City Hall is 15 East Loockerman Street. Disappointing.

Other than that, the W-S-N-E idea and the Zamboni shop seems like a very good bet.

[roboraven15]

They have. 2003, 2004, 2006, all on top of ramps or platforms. 2003 and 2004 were HDPE; 2006 was Lexan above diamond plate ramps.

kool so they have used on top of platforms, now if only this year its ice everywhere BUT on platforms... lol

i still think that this game should be ice fishing where u must stick arm through hole in ice(floor or platform) and use camera to find the "fish" or mobile object, and then u get points for fishing them out.

[Siri]

catching up on my reading!
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
-If a football field reference maybe there are zones on the field like 2002I like the post, but this last part seems sort of out of the blue. Is there something that indicates a football field? Maybe I've been a cadet for too long, and field+Dover makes me think of Dover AFB and airfields, not football fields. Evergreen makes me think of Evergreen International Airlines. They fly for the Air Force sometimes, and I think they land at Dover. Though, "flying" an alliance partner home might be difficult.

Apparently, there's also an Evergreen Farms in Dover, DE. They sell Christmas trees, so it's not really a "field"-type farm, but still. I also like the Dover England white cliffs, though I can't find an evergreen connection. Also, maybe not just another part of the field, but a ramp (cliff)? As to ice-fishing, I'm not sure how the rest of the clue would tie-in, but sure sounds fun! Especially with the cRio camera setup.

[Koolaid64]

ok the first line say's
"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount"

last i knew you couldn't be on a state, but you can be on a river

[EricH]

ok the first line say's
"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount"

last i knew you couldn't be on a state, but you can be on a river
Does the Colorado River a) flow through Paramount and b) have a shop on it?

(Next question: is there a Central River? Minnetonka River? Evergreen River? And can the above questions be answered for those rivers, should they exist?)

[Koolaid64]

paramount is an adj meaning: having superior power and influence

controlling the auto period would grant your team first offence period perhaps

central is defined as: serving as an essential component so there is something of extreme importance to game that may be controllable

not finding much useful info on Minnetonka

evergreen means: a plant having foliage that persists and remains green throughout the year

so there will possibly be a (green) goal that both teams can score in during the whole match

idk just thoughts

[Jacob Paikoff]

Does the Colorado River a) flow through Paramount and b) have a shop on it?

(Next question: is there a Central River? Minnetonka River? Evergreen River? And can the above questions be answered for those rivers, should they exist?)

The Colorado River flows through Colorado, Utah, Neveda, Arizona, and the California Border.

The only one of the other locations that has anything to do with water is Minnetonka which means "Great Water" and the Minnetonka Lake flows to the Mississippi River.

[ShotgunNinja]

It's all gibberish to me, but i'll guess anyway.

good morning teams = there is a bright light up high.

paramount = steep terrain

evergreen = green light (to be used with the Ethernet camera)

I think this year will heavily depend on getting a camera to work. Before with the CMU camera the micro controller was barely able to use it. But, now we have a whole computer to control a camera.

other than that i have no idea. I like the idea of a triangle shaped match though.

I think this guy's in on it.

[logicalyrandom]

Isn't the "Good morning teams" a stock phrase used at the start of all bill's posts? But aside from that, keen101 may have something.

[xnaut]

While talking to one of my mentors today (jerry) i had this crazy idea that makes allot of sense to me....

evergreen - earth (name)
minnetonka - water (lake)
paramount - air (airport at the end of it)
pheonix - fire (located on the upper edge of the Sonoran Desert)

Elemental?.... but what does it all mean.... i was counting on the forums to figure that out before my brain has a system failure and crashes.... (ill reboot and be better by morning) -- this seems like a real big coincidence to me...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANYONE FROM TEAM PINK HERE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


.

[Bsteckler]

Opah ("moon fish") = planet

Mars = planet

Mars = Ice

Ice = Zamboni

[GRST]

evergreen - earth (name)
minnetonka - water (lake)
paramount - air (airport at the end of it)
pheonix - fire (located on the upper edge of the Sonoran Desert)

.

So now all we need to do is find Heart- with your powers combined, I am... FRC!

[Renee Becker-Blau]

So now all we need to do is find Heart- with your powers combined, I am... FRC!

OPAH = Heart?

Go Captain Planet!

[gorrilla]

OPAH = Heart?

Go Captain Planet!


he's a hero

[LeelandS]

This is quite possilby the most twisted logic I've ever had to use on anything, but here's what I've found. If you look at the capitalized words in each line, you'll see the letter are (in order by vertical column, first column first) are CCME, and PPME. Now, this means nothing to me. But, I reversed the orders, so its EMCC and EMPP. But this still means nothing, not to me, at least. So I noticed each set of letters ends in a double set of letters (CC and PP). So I thought maybe it might just be supposed to mean EMC and EMP. So I looked those up and may have found something. EMC can stand for Enviromental Modeling Center, an organization that better predicts atmospheric occurances. So I thought maybe this challenge may have something to do with weather. But I didn't find anything like that on EMP. So I went back, and I noticed that EMC can also mean Electro-Magnetic Compatability. I also noticed EMP can mean Electro-Magnetic Pulse. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those terms for magnets? Maybe we're doing something with magnets this year. But that is still some twisted logic I used, so that might not be it, and by might, and mean probably. And even If I am right, how does the fish fit in? Ouch... my head hurts.

[Booksy]

This is quite possilby the most twisted logic I've ever had to use on anything, but here's what I've found. If you look at the capitalized words in each line, you'll see the letter are (in order by vertical column, first column first) are CCME, and PPME. Now, this means nothing to me. But, I reversed the orders, so its EMCC and EMPP. But this still means nothing, not to me, at least. So I noticed each set of letters ends in a double set of letters (CC and PP). So I thought maybe it might just be supposed to mean EMC and EMP. So I looked those up and may have found something. EMC can stand for Enviromental Modeling Center, an organization that better predicts atmospheric occurances. So I thought maybe this challenge may have something to do with weather. But I didn't find anything like that on EMP. So I went back, and I noticed that EMC can also mean Electro-Magnetic Compatability. I also noticed EMP can mean Electro-Magnetic Pulse. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those terms for magnets? Maybe we're doing something with magnets this year. But that is still some twisted logic I used, so that might not be it, and by might, and mean probably. And even If I am right, how does the fish fit in? Ouch... my head hurts.

I got it! We all have to make EMP machines. Last robot standing wins!
JK.

But yeah, that's some pretty twisted logic.:yikes:

[mcf747]

With everything said and this quote from Dave I think we are still heading toward a water game. :D

In a thread taking about things rookies must know Dave said:
Learn to swim.

-dave

Find it here.http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=759107&postcount=14

Matthew Forman
MorTorq 1515

[Scotty-G-Man]

Maby the game is how you may have to travel to different areas in the arena

[ComradeNikolai]

I got it! We all have to make EMP machines. Last robot standing wins!
JK.

But yeah, that's some pretty twisted logic.:yikes:

Unless your alliance partners deploy a faraday cage over your robot, or you have one built in; you had better have a very good autonomous program.

[Cyberphil]

Just throwing this out there, but did anyone do a search on teams that are in this area. Like in that order there might be a message with their names together. Ya know, something along the line of Sim-Chickens. That sorta thing. but when we put them together, it might make something that makes sense. :ahh:

[ATannahill]

While talking to one of my mentors today (jerry) i had this crazy idea that makes allot of sense to me....

evergreen - earth (name)
minnetonka - water (lake)
paramount - air (airport at the end of it)
pheonix - fire (located on the upper edge of the Sonoran Desert)

Elemental?.... but what does it all mean.... i was counting on the forums to figure that out before my brain has a system failure and crashes.... (ill reboot and be better by morning) -- this seems like a real big coincidence to me...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANYONE FROM TEAM PINK HERE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


.
Phoenix is also a mythical bird that bursts into fire and is reborn from its ashes (think of Harry Potter)

[Cyberphil]

That elemental idea is genius! Why couldn't i think of that!

[EricH]

You know, this thread proves that the GDC is pure evil! Everyone has a different interpretation or crazy idea to solve it, yet it'll make perfect sense once the game is revealed.

Once again, the GDC is pure evil. (Dave, Aidan, and Bill get the "pure evil genius" rating which is slightly worse.)

[xnaut]

That elemental idea is genius! Why couldn't i think of that!

see... somebody thinks im smart!

this could be the best moment of my life...:D :D

[Tetraman]

evergreen - earth (name)
minnetonka - water (lake)
paramount - air (airport at the end of it)
pheonix - fire (located on the upper edge of the Sonoran Desert)



I like this a lot.

Take your machine out of the shop - air
stop by and get connected - fire
drive by and make a pickup - water
then head to the field - earth

And consider we have a fish for game hint 1...that could have something to do with water.

And also consider what we call things that are on the field: game elements. We could be using 4 game elements are are completely different.

[Bochek]

I like this a lot.

Take your machine out of the shop - air
stop by and get connected - fire
drive by and make a pickup - water
then head to the field - earth




So we have to build robotic fire fighters?

[Stuart]

or a robotic captain planet

[Bochek]

!!!! Captain Planet, he's our hero
Gonna take pollution down to zero !!!

[Tetraman]

or a robotic captain planet

Earth - Dover
Fire - Pheonix
Wind - Colorado
Water - Minnetonka
Heart - Gracious Professionalism.

I so hope we have Captain Planet references in this new game...so we all can photoshop Dean to look like Captain Planet.

[dbs12693x]

I predict a record-breaking, simultaneous world-wide "OOOH!" on kick-off day
:).

[Bochek]

I so hope we have Captain Planet references in this new game...so we all can photoshop Dean to look like Captain Planet.

WAYY ahead of ya


http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8772/kamenplanetcopyii4.jpg

[Josh Goodman]

That picture is made of win.

[Akash Rastogi]

lol at this page of comments. love it

[Dragon]

I am not very good at these clues, but I was looking at the maps of these places on Google maps and found a link to clue #2 by Eric. It was created yesterday before the clue was sent.

I searched

the field evergreen, dover de

on Google Maps.

If you try to get driving directions it yields GPS coordinates for 4 sites.


Colorado in Paramount @33.894789,-118.16147

Central in Phoenix @33.292916,-112.083155

Minnetonka in Minnetonka @44.93915,-93.47994

Evergreen in Dover @39.164141,-75.673828

Hope this is of some help to you,

[Tetraman]

I predict a record-breaking, simultaneous world-wide "OOOH!" on kick-off day
:).

I predict speechlessness seconds, followed by 50% cheers of excitement, 45% groans and 5% "The Water Game is next year!".

[xnaut]

please can someone help me explain my element idea... i cant connect it:confused: :confused:

[Dan2081]

This thread is still going?!?!?!!

[Josh Goodman]

This thread is still going?!?!?!!

It's only halfway through December....don't be surprised if the game hint discussion continues after kickoff! :P

[Pranit T]

Hint:
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

What I think is that the first thing you do is move your robot out of a place from point 1 and then take it to point 2 and then do something there and then go to point 3 pick something from there and then score at point 4.

[maltz1881]

Minnetonkas are shoes. I have a pair and they are awesome. My thought is what do shoes have.. souls.. There are fish that are souls. I think we are going ice fishing. 4 ramps from each direction making a pit. We will then have to reel in something out of this pit. Like game pieces!! Just my 2 cents!!

[360jbass]

Minnetonkas are shoes. I have a pair and they are awesome. My thought is what do shoes have.. souls.. There are fish that are souls. I think we are going ice fishing. 4 ramps from each direction making a pit. We will then have to reel in something out of this pit. Like game pieces!! Just my 2 cents!!

:ahh: If we are going ice fishing the moon fish used to have to be longline fishing and they were considered good luck so fishers gave them away. So You would have to give it away to maybe a bucket at a side of the field.:ahh:

[Tetraman]

please can someone help me explain my element idea... i cant connect it:confused: :confused:

Paramount can mean the top, or a high rise, like into the air...Meaning an element of Wind.
A Phoenix is a mythical fire bird...connecting to the element of Fire.
Next to the city of Minnetonka, is Lake Minnetonka and many other small bodies of water. (map of the area (http://www.igotrealestate.com/images/minnetonka_minnesota_map.gif))...Meaning the element of Water.
And Evergreen is also a tree that grows in the earth...obviously the element of Earth.

See if that helps.

Edit: here is some more tidbits of info:

From Wikipedia - The Greek Classical Elements (Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and Aether) date from pre-Socratic times and persisted throughout the Middle Ages and into the Renaissance, deeply influencing European thought and culture. The concept of essentially the same five elements were similarly found in ancient India, China, and Japan, where they formed a basis of analysis in both Hinduism and Buddhism, particularly in an esoteric context: the four states-of-matter, plus a fifth element to describe that which was beyond the material world (non-matter). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element

[xxsumz]

Elements eh? Maybe there are secitions in the game pertaining to each element? Go through fire? Over water? On land? Yet in the air?

Im not sure but I have a feeling that once the game is revealed...people will be laughing at the things they came up with

[JaneYoung]

:ahh: If we are going ice fishing the moon fish used to have to be longline fishing and they were considered good luck so fishers gave them away. So You would have to give it away to maybe a bucket at a side of the field.:ahh:

I was thinking about the longline fishing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-line_fishing) regarding the seamount. Change of depth, maybe.

[{td}]

Hey guys, first time to the forums. I'm a member of team 167, from Iowa City, The Children of the Corn Robotics. I'd like to share a completely different set of crazy ideas about the clue:


"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;"
Released in 1941 by Paramount pictures, "In Old Colorado" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033753/) was a movie about a conflict over water rights between two workers. Perhaps the main plot--a territory battle --is the main game we play. We have to claim as much territory as possible, perhaps by stealing units of X from each other.


"stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;"
Central transport international has an office in Phoenix http://www.centraltransportint.com/ShippingInfo/LocateTerminal.aspx?zip=85043. It's a large shipping company--perhaps we have to carry a lot of things from one side to another (back to the territory battle), such as whoever ends up with the most units of X on their side wins.


"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; "
The use of "pickup" and repeat of "tonka" sounds like trucks. A tonka truck could be a dumpster, a pickup is a truck that could also carry lots of things, which would be necessary to transport the units of X onto our playing field.


"then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover."
To get from Dover to Evergreen (delaware), you take DuPont highway. DuPont is a huge sponsor of nascar, which could mean the game involves a race against each other or just against time. There was also an automobile company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_Pont_Motors) known for quality and style. Also, they started out making marine engines for WWI--so perhaps the whole event is UNDERWATER!!

and finally, about the fish:
The large eyes of the Opah fish sounds like a camera tie, which seems very probable for an autonomous mode. Also, the opah fish has a "telescoping mouth", which could certainly work with the whole "take as many to your side as possible" game; a gaping mouth that opens and then closes around a bunch of units of X then lets them go once on their side.

So, i had fun taking this in a different direction :) If any of you are going to the Milwaukee regional, you should track me down and say hi!

[Illegalsocks]

Elements eh? Maybe there are secitions in the game pertaining to each element? Go through fire? Over water? On land? Yet in the air?

We have to go Through the Fire and the Flames to carry oooonn?
( I'm sorry I couldn't resist myself :[ )

On a relevant note, I think the elements concept might be a little too complex. Having robots deal with four different types of terrain might hinder variation. "Hey! This might work...."
"But what about when it has to go over _____ terrain?"
"Oh yeah..."

[xnaut]

Paramount can mean the top, or a high rise, like into the air...Meaning an element of Wind.
A Phoenix is a mythical fire bird...connecting to the element of Fire.
Next to the city of Minnetonka, is Lake Minnetonka and many other small bodies of water. (map of the area (http://www.igotrealestate.com/images/minnetonka_minnesota_map.gif))...Meaning the element of Water.
And Evergreen is also a tree that grows in the earth...obviously the element of Earth.

See if that helps.



i know....... i already connected to the elements but cant connect to the game or to the fish...:confused:

[Tetraman]

i know....... i already connected to the elements but cant connect to the game or to the fish...:confused:

Oh, well in that case...you won't be able to connect this hint to the fish hint because there is a good chance the fish hint has to do with something completely different to this location hint.

[Ryuzaki of AK]

I told myself I'd stay out of the obsession this year, but I couldn't resist...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=Colorado+Ave,+Paramount,+CA+90723&daddr=Central+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+to:M innetonka+Dr,+Minnetonka,+Minnesota+55345+to:everg reen+st+in+dover&hl=en&geocode=&mra=pe&mrcr=1,2&sll=39.13006,-99.84375&sspn=17.79946,40.341797&ie=UTF8&z=4

A route connecting the four streets. Note that there are actually two Evergreen Drives in Dover, OH and Dover, DE, but they both satisfy my theory more or less. All four locations go from left to right, with the first two and the last two being at about the same "elevation" (the first two are more south, the last two more north). 4 stages? Second two higher up or something? Check out the link and you'll see what I mean.

Also, I think this confirms the idea that the game will involve some sort of a handoff or giving of the game piece to other bots. The Opah being a prizefish which is often given as a gift, then this:

Taking out of the shop = coming out of the home zone
Get connected = meet up with other bots
Make a pickup = handoff
Head to the field = go play the game

Granted this could also be interpreted to several of the other games (05-07 off the top of my head), where the human player has given the game piece to their bots. But the possibilities are there.


I agree with GeeForce, i think he's done his research. also upon looking at the map he posted, there are four evergreens, so i was thinking that there might be four goals or in-zones where you have to score, but also that you'll have to work with other teams before you can get there. this was just one of my thoughts and i'd like to hear what you have to think.

[jacksparrowlov6]

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Game Hint # 2

Good Morning Teams,

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

23 Days until Kickoff
See you then


Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments

different terrains possibly

[jacksparrowlov6]

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Game Hint # 2

Good Morning Teams,

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

23 Days until Kickoff
See you then


Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments

or a robotic captain planet

AHAHAHA omg i love you!:)

[IndySam]

Hey guys, first time to the forums. I'm a member of team 167, from Iowa City, The Children of the Corn Robotics. I'd like to share a completely different set of crazy ideas about the clue:


"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;"
Released in 1941 by Paramount pictures, "In Old Colorado" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033753/) was a movie about a conflict over water rights between two workers. Perhaps the main plot--a territory battle --is the main game we play. We have to claim as much territory as possible, perhaps by stealing units of X from each other.


That is exactly the kind of hint the GDC would give out. Well done.

[fablehill]

"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; "
The use of "pickup" and repeat of "tonka" sounds like trucks. A tonka truck could be a dumpster, a pickup is a truck that could also carry lots of things, which would be necessary to transport the units of X onto our playing field.


Hey, my first time posting here as well. I just want to say it seems like this is getting overlooked a bit. Being from very near Minnetonka, I wish the hint was something geographical, but I think this part of the hint has got to have something to do with the trucks. "pickup" just seems too good to pass by, there must be something to do with carrying and dumping. I'm no practiced expert at this deducing business, though, that's just what I'm getting!

[GGCO]

I really like the idea of the robot having to go into autonomous mode 15-20 seconds into the game. Then they would have to "fish around" for something. It would find it, and then give it to another robot, maybe passing it through a window, and it would start some kind of relay or territory war?

[Jwxie]

people, be reasonable

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

It's a multiple-functional arena
there will be a height
get throw something
pick up something
drive
go back to the height
down up down up
there may be ice, water or slippery stuff on the carpet
thats what i see FIRST is offering
i don't even think they would do anything with hockey, cuz from what i see so far, the time for the game must be miminize
and if still a 3 vs 3 game, you don't have enough room for a crazy hockey

and i am still doubting my assumption about the multiple-functional areana

[Jwxie]

and to analyze the function of a fish
and these places, and delivery, and height, and slippery

the entire game is totally different from the past
i don't know how the hints look like in the past years, but i am sure here it is


i don't even think ice is going to be on the arena
you will have to invest a huge money on getting enough of ice and to make sure it's cold enough not to melt
look, the 2nd day of the game is a full day competition, what are you going to do with an ice?
no way~
delivery, it is always the point of a game - the task

so here is what i think
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

1. all the robots start at the same line, but they are lock inside a cage or behind a block of something
2. they are now running, the autonomous mode will lead it open its way, rushing throw a line
3. now, they stop and the game task starts, the driver must drive it throw a height of something
4. pick up something
5. turn around or go down the height, go under and rush back to the start point

the problem is, how do you get bonus points and how do you cooperate?
it's not a single robot game, you will have buddies on each side....

[Jwxie]

oh i just have another idea about how teams work
you will have robot to do certain tasks
water is possible

1. you need to pick up one thing from a height
2. you need to go throw a water section, to pick up another thing

if 2nd is true, your robot cannot go throw a water,. and it's dangerous, because the robot is compose of chemical and electrical stuff....
you will need your robot, or a team to pick up a wooden board, place it above the "river", and the robot is going to go across the "wooden bridge" to pick up the stuff

well, this idea is going to fail because again witht the saftey....
oh well... forget it LOL

[Jwxie]

I really like the idea of the robot having to go into autonomous mode 15-20 seconds into the game. Then they would have to "fish around" for something. It would find it, and then give it to another robot, maybe passing it through a window, and it would start some kind of relay or territory war?
i would defeinity say this is the game
just like what i think as soon as i read the hints

but the arena is limited with space.... last year's arena was really small compared to some of the past years' games
but i don't know
i think we both got the track

[GaryVoshol]

There are fish that are souls.Holy Mackerel!

(Sorry)

[GGCO]

While talking to one of my mentors today (jerry) i had this crazy idea that makes allot of sense to me....

evergreen - earth (name)
minnetonka - water (lake)
paramount - air (airport at the end of it)
pheonix - fire (located on the upper edge of the Sonoran Desert)

Elemental?.... but what does it all mean.... i was counting on the forums to figure that out before my brain has a system failure and crashes.... (ill reboot and be better by morning) -- this seems like a real big coincidence to me...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANYONE FROM TEAM PINK HERE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


.

Four corners of a competition field? And you win if you control the majority of them by the end of the match? I still think that the auto part of the competition is not going to be at the beginning....

[Katie_UPS]

I really like these game speculations. The game this year sounds like it will be good.

[Xavier Brandall]

The fish combined with the idea of picking something up somewhere implies we might be "fishing" for some item out of a box or something of the like. Dover in England is famous for its cliffs, so we may have to place the previously mentioned item on some high "cliff", or must climb such an obstacle.

Central in Phoenix may mean the center of the arena, and getting hooked up means there may be something there we need to activate (have the robot flip a switch?).

Minnetonka is a smaller city just outside of St. Paul, or just off of the political center of Minnesota.

This gives only an abstract idea of what could go on, but may help nonetheless.

[~Mike()]

Maybe there are different platforms or sections on the field where the robot needs to do specific tasks.
The riddle repeats the word on
connected on central in Phoenix

[Jwxie]

Maybe there are different platforms or sections on the field where the robot needs to do specific tasks.
The riddle repeats the word on
connected on central in Phoenix

a movable and changeable platform?

[alectronic]

i also think that the idea of having auto in the middle or end would be cool, but as far as i can tell from the controller it would be not possible. Unless FIRST has coded a way to over-ride this, the driver station is set so that the 2 way switch to choose auto or tele will only run auto if the unit boots up with the switch that direction. now i know they have the competition port and stuff at the regionals, but for safety, the units will not allow people to switch from tele mode to auto mode without resetting, which they would not have people do because of the delay. sorry to burst any bubbles, and please let me know if i have mis-analyzed the new DS.

[alectronic]

a movable and changeable platform?

i thought about this with my team, and we thought maybe the field had elements (out of robot control) that moved. say, for example, a giant revolving door in the middle. that doesn't make much sense, but you see the point.

[BornaE]

i also think that the idea of having auto in the middle or end would be cool, but as far as i can tell from the controller it would be not possible. Unless FIRST has coded a way to over-ride this, the driver station is set so that the 2 way switch to choose auto or tele will only run auto if the unit boots up with the switch that direction. now i know they have the competition port and stuff at the regionals, but for safety, the units will not allow people to switch from tele mode to auto mode without resetting, which they would not have people do because of the delay. sorry to burst any bubbles, and please let me know if i have mis-analyzed the new DS.

During the beta test, We could switch between autonomous and Teleoperated mode at anytime without resetting the DS.
I have not set up the actual KoP control system yet but I am almost certain that they have identical functionality.
Please double check your observation.

-Borna
Team 39 - Beta tester

[redbarron]

"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover. "


Sounds like a truck drivers route to me lol.

maybe we have to start of with or hook up to trailers and deliver fish!!!:eek:

[redbarron]

people, be reasonable


It's a multiple-functional arena
there will be a height
get throw something
pick up something
drive
go back to the height
down up down up
there may be ice, water or slippery stuff on the carpet
thats what i see FIRST is offering
i don't even think they would do anything with hockey, cuz from what i see so far, the time for the game must be miminize
and if still a 3 vs 3 game, you don't have enough room for a crazy hockey

and i am still doubting my assumption about the multiple-functional areana

I dont know about ice, water, or slippery stuff on the carpet but there is nothing to say that they kept the field as the previous years.... Maybe there is no more carpet. I don't think they will be putting water on the floor but I could see the GDC using Diamond Plate or a plastic as the playing surface this year.... There are infinite possibilities for playing surfaces and was thinking of this last year when our driver was practicing laps on a polished wood floor, :D kinda looked like a scene from Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift:p

[groves]

I think it looks like a shark.

[Josh Goodman]

0.o never saw that before....

[billbo911]

I think it looks like a shark.

0.o never saw that before....

Take a look at post 298 in this thread.

[dpeterson3]

Don't know if this was mentioned, but could Dover refer to racing. The monster mile is in Dover DE. Maybe we get to do high performance racing over an obstacle course. Making a pickup and drop-off sounds like moving some kind of game piece around like we have every year. I wonder if it will be similiar to last year. We have to get off a starting block and then race while moving pieces.

thats my $0.02 worth

[johnr]

I still think the hook-up part means that you will physically hook your robots together and then play......"Red rover, red rover, let blue bot come over.":p

[SniperFox17]

Do you think that the game might have to somehow do with the game Monopoly (Our coach thought of this one)?

[jrdude]

We tried searching everything in google maps and no luck with any kind of image that would've showed up. We also tried zoming out at every stage and could'nt see anything.

look at the outline

[JohnBoucher]

"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;"
Released in 1941 by Paramount pictures, "In Old Colorado" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033753/) was a movie about a conflict over water rights between two workers. Perhaps the main plot--a territory battle --is the main game we play. We have to claim as much territory as possible, perhaps by stealing units of X from each other.


"stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;"
Central transport international has an office in Phoenix http://www.centraltransportint.com/ShippingInfo/LocateTerminal.aspx?zip=85043. It's a large shipping company--perhaps we have to carry a lot of things from one side to another (back to the territory battle), such as whoever ends up with the most units of X on their side wins.


"drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; "
The use of "pickup" and repeat of "tonka" sounds like trucks. A tonka truck could be a dumpster, a pickup is a truck that could also carry lots of things, which would be necessary to transport the units of X onto our playing field.


Sounds Like Stack Attack :ahh:

[jrdude]

I think it looks like a shark.

it does look like a shark when you do that...

[Ziaholic]

Yikes ... it took a while to get to the end of the thread! ... but I wanted to read it all before I posted.

I really like the elemental theory ... not sure if it's relevent to the '09 game, but I like it nonetheless. ;)


I'm not much for raining on brainstorming ideas, but I've really gotta' doubt the N/S/E/W theories. I live in (near) Phoenix, and there aren't very many of us Phoenicians that consider ourselves "southern" ... there are hundreds of better cities to reference as "southern". They wouldn't have picked Phoenix if they were trying to hint at South.

The number 4 pops up a lot. 4 types/colors of flesh in the Opah (a non-schooling fish) makes me wanna' predict no alliances ... but I'm unsure if the powers-that-be are willing to remove that "mainstay" feature of our matches. Our regionals and/or nationals would take longer if it's not 3v3 matches. If it's only 1v1v1v1, promoting and/or eliminating 2 teams per match, will take more matches to complete.

And with the growing number of teams ... the ability to pull off an event in a long weekend becomes threatened if we only advance/eliminate 2 teams at a time.

Perhaps the allies aren't pre-determined, but rather, get determined based on your autonomous performance. a la the "get connected" reference the clue.

... enough rambling for now ...

[jaz]

About the slippery surface - has anyone looked at the FTC field?

It has PVC rollers on part of the field that you may have to drive over.

[Zach Purser]

I still think the hook-up part means that you will physically hook your robots together and then play......"Red rover, red rover, let blue bot come over.":p

Actually, hooking your robots together is an interesting idea. We've had mobile goals in the past that you had to pull to an end zone. Maybe we're supposed to make robots that can link together to pull the goals. In reference to the fish clue, it would be a "longline" of robots. :)

I'm picturing a large goal, placed in the center of the field on a big sheet of HDPE "ice". Your robots will link up so that when one robot is touching the goal it is completely on the ice and the linked robot is on the carpet. The third robot can collect balls to place in the goal, help pull, or go bother the other team to prevent them from scoring or pulling.

[EricH]

The number 4 pops up a lot. 4 types/colors of flesh in the Opah (a non-schooling fish) makes me wanna' predict no alliances ... but I'm unsure if the powers-that-be are willing to remove that "mainstay" feature of our matches. Our regionals and/or nationals would take longer if it's not 3v3 matches. If it's only 1v1v1v1, promoting and/or eliminating 2 teams per match, will take more matches to complete.

And with the growing number of teams ... the ability to pull off an event in a long weekend becomes threatened if we only advance/eliminate 2 teams at a time.

Back in 2005, people thought the consistent reference to three meant something. It did, and now we have 3-team alliances.

I wonder...Are we getting 4-team alliances:ahh::yikes:??? *dives under the nearest panic shelter*

[2560DawgDM]

can anyone help me out? im rying to get a solid list of businesses on the specific streets but all the map pages i go to give me businesses near it. help a brother out?

[synth3tk]

Back in 2005, people thought the consistent reference to three meant something. It did, and now we have 3-team alliances.

I wonder...Are we getting 4-team alliances:ahh::yikes:??? *dives under the nearest panic shelter*
A scary thought, but it could be fun!

[2560DawgDM]

i found something cool with the fish. upload it onto photoshop flip the image horizontally. then blow it up and put the brightness to zero. it looks like an encyclopedia entry? thoughts?

[ATannahill]

Thoughts?

1. Your in the wrong thread.
2. It is the next page in the book from which the picture is scanned.
3. 1 and 2 would not have occured if you read the hint #1 thread.

[2560DawgDM]

i realized that as soon as i posted it. and i reposted on the right thread already. sorry ;). but i dont think that anything is irrelevent. the FIRST people are smart enough not to make mistakes likt that. refer to my first post on this thread. any help?

[BanksKid]

two things

Bently MFG group inc opn colorado ave in paramount california... leading manufauture of high tech gaskets... ie circles

Patriots square park home of the circlular urban design on central ave in pheonix

...... see the connection...... i do.....

[2560DawgDM]

About the slippery surface - has anyone looked at the FTC field?

It has PVC rollers on part of the field that you may have to drive over.


is the field released already?

[torchitup]

It is a map of the US and we have to leave from colorado
"Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;"
Then get connected aka pick something up in Central in Phoenix;
Trhen drive by and make a pick up using what we got connected with on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; then we bring it to a field in Evergreen in Dover.

[EricH]

is the field released already?FTC is competing already. FRC has no released field images/drawings/fields yet, and won't until January 3, 2009.

[2560DawgDM]

thats what i thought. i thought it might have been a typo because t and r are right next to each other. oh, a possible lead...all in minnetonka MN, minnetonka industrial road, evergreen park, and civic central park. ??? interesting yes?

[ShotgunNinja]

Anyone get the reference to 42 degrees?

[2560DawgDM]

Anyone get the reference to 42 degrees?

what do you mean?

[craigcd]

O = Optional
P = Player
A = Autonomous
H = Hybrid

[Libby K]

WAYY ahead of ya


http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8772/kamenplanetcopyii4.jpg

I'm sorry to bring this back, but this picture makes me laugh, and at the same time, deeply disturbs me.

[xnaut]

O = Optional
P = Player
A = Autonomous
H = Hybrid

nice thought!!!

[synth3tk]

I'm sorry to bring this back, but this picture makes me laugh, and at the same time, deeply disturbs me.
It would be really funny to see this in his introduction this season, just like the dancing Krispy Kremes. ;) :D

[Koolaid64]

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;

hmm... thinking about these two lines makes one thing pop into my mind trains, trains connect to multiple trail cars and have central hubs and its also relevant to making pickups

[Elgin Clock]

Starting zone for the bots will be "ice" or an HDPE-like area relating to the Zamboni company & the test rink that the company built there on Colorado Ave, in Paramount, CA.

Around the area of Central Ave, in Phoenix, AZ there is a freeway that goes under part of that road & a park (Hance Park).
We will need to navigate under something rather large (more than a railing - more like something with limited view from the player's station to the robot - like a large tube, or overhang)

Near Minnetonka MN, there is a company named Recon Robotics. They make reconnaissance robots for gathering data before you go into a hostile environment - (Military or Police industries mostly.)
Near a certain area during game play, we will have to collect data via a human player & then proceed with game play. (Auton/Hybrid in the middle of the match, as has been requested for many years by the programmers).
Or... we will have to collect data while under that obstacle as mentioned previously.

I got nothing for Evergreen in Dover as of right now, but I have to go with the end game will be played on a material that is really green, such as astroturf with the data you are able to collect in the 3rd part of the game heavily used in this part of the game.



In closing, I think this game will step it up with the most types of surfaces & tasks of any game to date.
Can't wait! :cool:

[synth3tk]

In closing, I think this game will step it up with the most types of surfaces of any game to date.
Not saying that anyone should ever start planning based on speculation from the game hints, but this would be something interesting to think about. It would definitely be a nice challenge, in addition to the new system.

[Elgin Clock]

Not saying that anyone should ever start planning based on speculation from the game hints, but this would be something interesting to think about. It would definitely be a nice challenge, in addition to the new system.

I'm hoping for a return to many field surface variations like 2004 in that regard.
We've had too many games between then & now with a majority of flat driving. I want to see some more terrain or surfaces to deal with which teams will have to overcome with their drive trains.

[Michael_MARS]

Starting zone for the bots will be "ice" or an HDPE-like area relating to the Zamboni company & the test rink that the company built there on Colorado Ave, in Paramount, CA.

Around the area of Central Ave, in Phoenix, AZ there is a freeway that goes under part of that road & a park (Hance Park).
We will need to navigate under something rather large (more than a railing - more like something with limited view from the player's station to the robot - like a large tube, or overhang)

Near Minnetonka MN, there is a company named Recon Robotics. They make reconnaissance robots for gathering data before you go into a hostile environment - (Military or Police industries mostly.)
Near a certain area during game play, we will have to collect data via a human player & then proceed with game play. (Auton/Hybrid in the middle of the match, as has been requested for many years by the programmers).
Or... we will have to collect data while under that obstacle as mentioned previously.

I got nothing for Evergreen in Dover as of right now, but I have to go with the end game will be played on a material that is really green, such as astroturf with the data you are able to collect in the 3rd part of the game heavily used in this part of the game.



In closing, I think this game will step it up with the most types of surfaces & tasks of any game to date.
Can't wait! :cool:

I agree with you Elgin Clock, I had a few toughts along the same idea. But, how often do these clues actually pretain to the game. I have not been with first for to long, so I have no idea if they do(I cant remember if last years clues did or not).

[EricH]

I agree with you Elgin Clock, I had a few toughts along the same idea. But, how often do these clues actually pretain to the game. I have not been with first for to long, so I have no idea if they do(I cant remember if last years clues did or not).
They always do. There's only one problem: we don't know how until after Kickoff!

[Jwxie]

i would not even think too complicate
but surely i don;t think FIRST wants to do any plain shooting / running around anymore

the fish, all i can say is a hint to the task
and train model? the idea sounds cool but impossible for team ganging up
how do you connect the robots?
but i would again, say there are many tasks to do with teams
and the arena, is going to be larger, of course

overdrive's arena in NYC/NJ 2008 is small from what i know....
but they do have enough of space to make the arena twice or more as large as the 2008 game....

movable platform, possible

[Jwxie]

Not saying that anyone should ever start planning based on speculation from the game hints, but this would be something interesting to think about. It would definitely be a nice challenge, in addition to the new system.

i agree, the purpose of these hints, 1) to get people excite about the game
and 2) to make every team begin to do brainstorming, especially for rookie teams
it is our first year and discussion is one of the major things that as a rookie should always do

[xnaut]

whatever the game is it is sure to be something new and different....

[MiniNerd24]

I wonder if we'll have to climb something sorta tall? I imagine they wouldn't want falling robots breaking.

[Jwxie]

I wonder if we'll have to climb something sorta tall? I imagine they wouldn't want falling robots breaking.

no, they will either be a ramp, you have to go over it
or just to use the arm to pick up something or put something back

[fablehill]

You know, going off of the train concept, trains also have multiple tracks. Even if its not trains, the clue refrences four streets. This may have already been brought up, but what if the clue has something to do with field, possibly having four offshooting areas and a central one? or maybe the field will be maze-like, and rearranged each round.

Man, I hope it's a rearranging maze, because that would be amazing.

[kgzak]

I was just messing around and i put all the cities on a map, using dover Delaware. I connected the dots and got

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/364/picture1is0.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1is0.jpg)


A Fish :confused:

[2560DawgDM]

I was just messing around and i put all the cities on a map, using dover Delaware. I connected the dots and got

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/364/picture1is0.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1is0.jpg)


A Fish :confused:

there are only 4 cities, you have 5 points. elaborate plz.

[1527Michiru]

If you take every 23rd (Cause there's 23 days left till Kickoff) letter, starting with the first (HaHa)
you get TSNOBTAI
which is an anagram for Botanist

if that's relevant at all.....

[Booksy]

I'm trying to run this down from the GDC's view.

So first I typed "zamboni" into google
Well, www.zamboni.com, sounds promising.
Hey look, they are in paramount... first result.

Looks to me like they googled zamboni.

I wonder what we can find from the rest.

[Zach Purser]

If you take every 23rd (Cause there's 23 days left till Kickoff) letter, starting with the first (HaHa)
you get TSNOBTAI
which is an anagram for Botanist

if that's relevant at all.....

Wow, impressive.

So: clue #1, animal (fish); clue #2, vegetable (botanist); will the 3rd clue be a mineral?

[Elgin Clock]

there are only 4 cities, you have 5 points. elaborate plz.

Looks like Opah, Oklahoma.
That was established as an alternate meaning to the Moonfish / Opah in clue 1.

Btw, there is an Opa Locka airport in FL.
Let's just add some more darn locations into the mix. :ahh: :rolleyes:

If you take every 23rd (Cause there's 23 days left till Kickoff) letter, starting with the first (HaHa)
you get TSNOBTAI
which is an anagram for Botanist

if that's relevant at all.....

Wooooow... That was so random it may just be it! LOL

I agree with you Elgin Clock, I had a few toughts along the same idea. But, how often do these clues actually pretain to the game. I have not been with first for to long, so I have no idea if they do(I cant remember if last years clues did or not).

The clues over the years have pertained to everything imaginable within the game, scoring objects, robot design, playing field design, & even scoring of the game itself.
Bottom line is, if they find a random aspect they think we would have fun analyzing before kickoff, they will throw us these clues, & laugh themselves into a frenzy with all the crazy (but certainly feasible) ideas we throw out there in these forums... Or at least I would anyways. lol
The Game Design Committee (GDC) could even be watching our ideas & random speculation for this year's clue & get ideas about next year's game with all the ideas we throw out somehow.
Who knows?

[Arthur S]

Getting hints makes the holiday season so much more jolly doesn't it? Well until you rip your hair out trying to guess what it all means.

[JJD]

As most of you may have done already, I looked up these locations on google maps.

Paramount to Central in Phoenix-
This is the shortest distance of them all, so will be worth the least amount of points. My guess as we will get some points for just "Driving out of the shop" Meaning getting out of the starting gate(Maybe some obsticle, because there are mountains around Colorado??). Get connected makes me think of it ending autonomous mode.

Phoenix to Minnetonka-
This is quite a long distance, so will be worth more points completing it. Since we'll be going through the mountain range, there will be 2 choices. Either go over a significant obstacle(if not used in 1st part) or, go under or through them(idea for camera!!)Then, when we reach "Minnetonka" our robot must grab something(maybe different sizes/shapes for a difference in points)

Minnetonka to Dover
Now, there are 2 Dovers. There is one in MA and one in Dover, Kent, UK.

MA Dover-
It is possible that we will need to navigate a "Mountainous" type area as above, this time with our object. Failing to get our object over will result in a loss of points. Again, go over or under your choice. This is where strategy would come in, if you chose something too big or odd shaped, it's possible you wouldn't be able to go under and/or over.

Dover, Kent, UK
This one stumps me a bit, but, for the crazys out there (Dave). We have to get our object over a large body of water.(will add more as I think of it)






This also conforms with all the "4's" popping up.

1. Autonomous Mode
2. Going over mountainous area
3. Getting Item
4. Going over mountainous are with item



Comments? Concerns?

[MiniNerd24]

Wild guess here and pretty poor connection but...
Paramount was/is a well known production company for movies...so maybe we need to use our camera this year?

[RoboGeek99]

All i know is that im burnt out from hints...personally WATER GAME jk...i just want Jan 3 to come along and it will make the world go round again:ahh: :ahh: :ahh:

[alectronic]

Getting hints makes the holiday season so much more jolly doesn't it? Well until you rip your hair out trying to guess what it all means.

ouch, that would hurt. but you are right, a person could easily go insane.

[elvis9110]

i think the out of the shop part is getting out of the starting zone, maybe separated from the rest of the field somehow
the get connected is the end of autonomous, getting connected to the controller
the make a pick up being obtaining the game piece, possibly triangle shaped like connecting the places
and the last bit is about scoring.
also, the camera will come into effect because we wont be able to see the whole field or certain sections. i was also wondering about if the casings for the control systems could mean that theres something in the game that might foul up the old control systems and the new ones would be resistant to it

[Jwxie]

1. Autonomous Mode
2. Going over mountainous area
3. Getting Item
4. Going over mountainous are with item

i agree that's what i think too
most of us believe it may be the model
idk, but sounds like the game

maybe something in the middle
by #2 and #3 you will need to work with your buddy teams

[JJD]

Or, in another spin-off of the number 4, it could be a 1v1v1v1....

[kgzak]

there are only 4 cities, you have 5 points. elaborate plz.

I used the name of the fish from the first clue and got Opah Oklahoma.

[XOFallenAngelOX]

Hint 2
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount; = Machine Sales - USA
Frank J. Zamboni & Co., Inc.
15714 Colorado Avenue
Paramount, CA 90723-4211

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;= http://www.phoenix.com/en/search/default
http://phoenix.citysearch.com/profile/35399873/?brand=smx_yp-nc


drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka = Lake Minnetonka? Or Minnetonka Audio Software
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.


what i think it might be

[alectronic]

just because it would be interesting, are any of FIRSTs or NIs manufacturers or corp. offices in these cities? I don't know how that would relate unless each city somehow related to one line of the 2nd hint. I guess that would make the hint not a hint at the game or robot, but still.

[NoahTheBoa]

Earlier EricH mentioned 4 team alliances. I think that this is definitely plausible because there are now more FRC teams than ever before. Does anyone know how many teams are registered this year? Maybe that could help us decide if 4v4 is possible.

[JayZ]

I agree with the people who say that "zamboni" is important relating to the first line. It seems like the GDC is using google to get its hints. They got the first hint by googling "moonfish". They got the first line of hint #2 by googling "zamboni".

Basically, to figure out the hint, all we have to do is figure out what to google that brings up the location the hint says as the first result.

Now, the problem comes down to the rest of the lines. When you google "connected central phoenix" you get some lawyers' website. I think that this is the page that the GDC got, but we need to figure out what they searched for that brought them to that page.

I haven't gotten much with the third and fourth lines. For the third line I came up with "minnetonka moccasins" but that's just a hunch. And for the fourth it could be "dover evergreen classics" but that is also a hunch.

I think this method could work. and i think it is the closest i'll ever come to solving a hint :D

[EricH]

Earlier EricH mentioned 4 team alliances. I think that this is definitely plausible because there are now more FRC teams than ever before. Does anyone know how many teams are registered this year? Maybe that could help us decide if 4v4 is possible.
1689 FRC teams all told.

This is not going to be a very good method, though. What you need to do is look at what the lowest number of teams at an event is. If it's less than 32, you can't do a 4v4 game and keep it through normal eliminations. It's impossible. I can't think of an event offhand with that few, but who knows. I'll be back in a bit with the answer to: Is there an event with fewer than 32 teams?

And the answer is: Yes. (Waterloo, in case you were wondering which one.) 22 teams, 8 open slots. No 4v4 this year, unless they do a tweak that starts eliminations in the semis.

[Benjwgarner]

Look at the shape:

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frcfishwb7.jpg

:eek: :confused: :ahh:

Opah + Mapquest = ???

Hmm....

[GBilletdeaux930]

Look at the shape:

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frcfishwb7.jpg

:eek: :confused: :ahh:

Opah + Mapquest = ???

Hmm....

Looks more like a shark to me but i can see where your comin from

[mrnoble]

Hi- we (the students and I) have been reading for a while, but I've just joined. I've slogged through as many hint posts as I could, and didn't see this anywhere, so if I'm repeating something someone else posted, forgive me...:rolleyes:
CXT Software is located on North Central Avenue in Phoenix. Others have pointed out that Microsoft is there, too. www.cxtsoftware.com

[Technogenius]

It's probably something dealing with different terrains.

[mrnoble]

re: phoenix.

this may be of interest. The city of Phoenix seems to think this corridor is a key "connectivity" area.

http://phoenix.gov/ECONDEV/nocentrl.pdf

[Mr_I]

We really should be careful here. The GDC is probably monitoring all of these discussions, and using the best ideas to torment us with both clues and games for the future years!

18 days to go!

[XXShadowXX]

It would appear that this game involves Zambonies/Ice, Microsoft, Government buildings, and Football???

OH Crap we have to do taxes!

[synth3tk]

It would appear that this game involves Zambonies/Ice, Microsoft, Government buildings, and Football???

OH Crap we have to do taxes!
Best Joke Idea of 2008/2009 Season, hands down! :rolleyes:

[Team #1502]

okay so we have a diagram...and we think that it has to do with the tree octopus...no but we think it has something to with staying on a path, with different stations along the way. or finding something that doesn't belong...i will post the diagram soon. it just has to send first.

[grim]

Zamboni...ice...I think it's curling with bots!

[Jwxie]

GDC is always watching our discussion
i will stop looking at the map, and maybe draw our own anticipating model instead

[billbo911]

This also conforms with all the "4's" popping up.

1. Autonomous Mode
2. Going over mountainous area
3. Getting Item
4. Going over mountainous are with item



Comments? Concerns?

Going from Paramount to Phoenix is through the desert, not mountains.

[Koolaid64]

has anyone tried throwing these words in a thesaurus yet??
i would but i don't have the time right at the moment

[BanksKid]

two things

Bently MFG group inc opn colorado ave in paramount california... leading manufauture of high tech gaskets... ie circles

Patriots square park home of the circlular urban design on central ave in pheonix

...... see the connection...... i do.....

i dont think you guys cuaght this.... Bentley mfg group inc. makes gaskets for space suits.... the only maker of space suits in the united states is.... NASA... Dave... who is on the GDC works for nasa..... An OPAH is also known as a MOONFISH...... does any one else see this or just me...... PLEASE TELL ME I"M NOT CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!

...... is any one willing to go in on a bet that the hint has nothing to do with Zamboni........ message me if you do....

[XXShadowXX]

The hint does to involve Zamboni. Its simple really. Here is my theory.

The Game,
rectangle Field, with a slick center piece occupying 1/3 of total field area. Hybrid/"No Control Time"/Autonomous will be done attempting to collect* a game piece possible a fish shaped object (no theory on game object), and score with them. Goals can be scored on opposing alliance's side of the field, this will be accomplished with either a firing mechanism, or by traveling over slick item. The firing angle can be calculated by the camera, as well as find the game piece, which scoring in autonomous is most likely worth more then normal. Scoring can also be done, by carrying a said object across the field, and scoring, the goals will be sent at different heights, for different points.
The mountains represent a obstacle, the ice can be a obstacle, mountains have ice on them. The ice wouldn't be ice, I'm sure FIRST organizers can find a very slick solid object.

Predictions I am willing to make; There will be between 2-5 teams per alliance, The game will run less then 5 minutes, The two alliance will be Red, and Blue, if there is a third alliance it will be white.

*The fish in my mind denotes fishing, or better yet phishing, attempting to locate data/and item.

Well tear it to shreds.

[lafawnda]

The hint does to involve Zamboni. Its simple really. Here is my theory.

The Game,
rectangle Field, with a slick center piece occupying 1/3 of total field area. Hybrid/"No Control Time"/Autonomous will be done attempting to collect* a game piece possible a fish shaped object (no theory on game object), and score with them. Goals can be scored on opposing alliance's side of the field, this will be accomplished with either a firing mechanism, or by traveling over slick item. The firing angle can be calculated by the camera, as well as find the game piece, which scoring in autonomous is most likely worth more then normal. Scoring can also be done, by carrying a said object across the field, and scoring, the goals will be sent at different heights, for different points.
The mountains represent a obstacle, the ice can be a obstacle, mountains have ice on them. The ice wouldn't be ice, I'm sure FIRST organizers can find a very slick solid object.

Predictions I am willing to make; There will be between 2-5 teams per alliance, The game will run less then 5 minutes, The two alliance will be Red, and Blue, if there is a third alliance it will be white.

*The fish in my mind denotes fishing, or better yet phishing, attempting to locate data/and item.

Well tear it to shreds.

i agree with that! zamboni--ice--slick surface!! pretty much the same as my idea:D

[sayso_411]

lol...theres the GDC again trying to mess with us...i like the comment of NASA/gaskets/moonfish comment#455 (it makes sense to me) i think i am going to enjoy my break instead of losing sleep over the game

[CHAOS_74]

Both hints have somthing to do with large areas so maybe it has somthing to do with a large playing field with the peices in sight.

Opah-lives practically anywhere tropical

Hint #2-it has lots of places that are all over the place

:D

[MiniNerd24]

Wait... tropics... ice... and the Lego LEague challenge had to do with getting to know our climates and protection and stuff.... maybe something along the same lines???

[XOFallenAngelOX]

instead of thinking of zambonies and ice as the activity
maybe we should think about the movemenr
because o fthis i think we might have to push things along

[JayZ]

I think I am getting somewhere with this hint. I think I figured out the first and second lines so far. I got this by figuring out what the GDC might have searched for on Google to find something with the location that the hint says.

Line 1- "zamboni", google that and the first link takes you to a business located on Colorado Ave. in Paramount, CA

Line 2- "uhaul", the U-haul international HQ is located on Central Ave. in Phoenix, AZ. this could apply to "get connected" (hitch up the trailer) and to the next line which says to "make a pickup" (put the item in the trailer)

Lines 3 and 4 I haven't found anything useful yet.

[PhilBot]

The reference to Zamboni might be more related to hockey than Ice.

The Game piece for FTC this year is a street hockey puck, and FIRST has just had a bunch of these made in custom red and blue colors :)

[laxdawgb]

okay im not sure if its been said already but an anagram is possible, unfortunately internet anagram solvers arent used to long strings of words and wont give all of the results but anyway, i figured that the semicolon meant that you could solve it as a whole or as individual sections, so i got some words that brings me back to the water concept. the words that stood out were Unmoor, pontoon, and port. if anyone has a high quality anagram solver it may be something to look into

[Beckyob]

i have come to the conclusion that when they come up with the clues they all sit there and think hmmm how can i confuse the kids this year.

[spud nut]

Anyone realize that there is a new electrical tram system on central ave. in Phoenix? That may be a good bet

[nukelear1991]

Ok Im on to something.

On Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA there is a machine shop called ZAMBONIS.

Im not sure, but maybe the game is styled after hockey. I mean think the person said lake minnetonka is big for ice fishing...the fish clue was meant to be a "red herring" to make us think of a water game, but maybe the fish is an OPA (sp) which is a fish that can get up to 200 pounds (the electrical system is REALLY heavy so the weight req. could go up) and six feet in length, but fish in markets are usually hung by their mouths so the height req. could go up to 6 feet again...

6 teams per alliance:

1 Goalie

2 or 3 defence

2 or 3 offence




Just a thought...

[XXShadowXX]

I would like to revise my ice statement, while a slick surface could act as a buffer zone making it difficult to travel over it could be near impossible, calling for the other robots in your alliance to carry or build a bridge across said obsticle.

I think that is more in the sprit of first, you know having to support team mates, also incorporating a bridge into your robot...

[nnfuller]

I would like to revise my ice statement, while a slick surface could act as a buffer zone making it difficult to travel over it could be near impossible, calling for the other robots in your alliance to carry or build a bridge across said obsticle.
Not a bad theory except then you would need a robot that essentially could do nothing but be a bridge and the spirit of first is that any alliance no matter what robots are on it need to be capable of scoring.

[EricH]

Not a bad theory except then you would need a robot that essentially could do nothing but be a bridge and the spirit of first is that any alliance no matter what robots are on it need to be capable of scoring.
I do believe that there was such a robot a few years ago...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12780
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12786
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12297
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12299

That little tie-dyed ramp is, in fact, a robot. It was fully capable of scoring--balancing goals on the bridge was a very good way to score that year. But it was "only" a ramp.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Not a bad theory except then you would need a robot that essentially could do nothing but be a bridge and the spirit of first is that any alliance no matter what robots are on it need to be capable of scoring.

And this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27499) little ramp bot won at BAE and ended up 5th on Arcimedes a few years ago.

[Elgin Clock]

I do believe that there was such a robot a few years ago...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12780
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12786
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12297
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12299

That little tie-dyed ramp is, in fact, a robot. It was fully capable of scoring--balancing goals on the bridge was a very good way to score that year. But it was "only" a ramp.

So good in fact, it came in 2nd place overall at the championship event, & was the Archimedes Division champion.
Team 111 (http://www.firstwiki.net/index.php/111)
2001 NAT National Finalist
2001 NAT Division Champion - Archimedes


Other robots were ramps as well, including our first attempt at a robot that year.
Team 69 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12417) from MA was another.

[2056Durfey]

Most of the people here bring up some good points, though I do have a few concerns with some of them.

1) As for the weight and size limits I do believe that there are certain labour laws that require more the two people to life an object if it more the 150 Lbs, so they may have to take that into account when planning on robot design.

2) As for an ice surface, it would be very hard to do because of the cooling requirements. Even just a slick surface would be difficult as they would have to take into account the safety of the team members trying to place/retrieve their robot on/from the field as well as the field assembly and reset crew and the hazard of lose of control of some robots.

Those were just some of my thoughts.

[Scotty-G-Man]

maby its a scavenger hunt to where we have to program our robot on a hybrid system to pick up a flag or object and return it to the starting point

[360skier]

Evergreen in Dover, UK is along Slip Lane. I think ice is probably going to be part of the game.

[Wombat]

With the new Control System,
We were thinking it could be color sensored with the fish
like in the picture with picking up fish
because in Minnetonka is a fishing area just like the other clue


I don't know for sure but its probably an experiment with
all the new coding XD

however the new system weighs a ton!

[jerry w]

I think I am getting somewhere with this hint. I think I figured out the first and second lines so far. I got this by figuring out what the GDC might have searched for on Google to find something with the location that the hint says.

Line 1- "zamboni", google that and the first link takes you to a business located on Colorado Ave. in Paramount, CA

Line 2- "uhaul", the U-haul international HQ is located on Central Ave. in Phoenix, AZ. this could apply to "get connected" (hitch up the trailer) and to the next line which says to "make a pickup" (put the item in the trailer)

Lines 3 and 4 I haven't found anything useful yet.

for the third line enter
"biopolymer plastic bottles"
into google, and find that the 6th entry is Nature Works plastics
15305 Minnetonka Boulevard
Minnetonka, MN 55345

now can someone decode the field shape for line 4??
;)

[mrnoble]

There are at least two ice arenas located on Minnetonka Blvd in Minnetonka.

[waialua359]

I do believe that there was such a robot a few years ago...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12780
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12786
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12297
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/12299

That little tie-dyed ramp is, in fact, a robot. It was fully capable of scoring--balancing goals on the bridge was a very good way to score that year. But it was "only" a ramp.

that looks like jason morella in the background in the first pic.

[Doctorwho]

What if we need to "fish" an item off of the field and then put it into some sort of holder on our alliance's side of the field?

[Justin Hulbert]

[QUOTE=IndySam;782416]There is a Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
A Central Ave in Phoenix, AZ
Minnetonka BLVD Minnetonka, MN
Evergreen Drive in Dover OH and DE[/QUOTE

I like some of the other ideas about hooking up with other robots and stuff. But just for the heck of it what if those points make a picture, i know its only three points but, what if??? I'm going to use google earth to take a look. You just never know.

[Team #1502]

it might be a bit longer than expected for the diagram

[Macdaddy549]

Here's my 2 cents....

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
This first line means a starting area.

Stop by and get connected means Go to an area and connect to something. Goal or flatbead style platform.

Drive by and pick up means to load items for points

then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover. Parking area for bonus points.

The first clue means some type of hooking phase.

[NoahTheBoa]

Here's my 2 cents....


Stop by and get connected means Go to an area and connect to something. Goal or flatbead style platform.


Maybe a return of mobile goals.... When was the last time we had mobile goals in FRC?

[fordchrist675]

2003 was stack attack, as well as 2004 was first frenzy both featured mobile goals.

[ATannahill]

Maybe a return of mobile goals.... When was the last time we had mobile goals in FRC?
2004 unless you count the rack swaying as moving.

[ATannahill]

2003 was stack attack, as well as 2004 was first frenzy both featured mobile goals.
How did stack attack have moving goals? I don't see a goal, just a scoring area.

[fordchrist675]

Technically the boxs were considered mobile goals thats what i read on the first archives that is just what they said.

[Elgin Clock]

Technically the boxs were considered mobile goals thats what i read on the first archives that is just what they said.

I would not agree with that statement at all. I don't think anyone who played the 2003 game would actually.

However, as far as mobile goals are concerned though; 2004, 2002, 2001 & 1999 all had mobile entities (Re: scoring containers with wheels on them for the game objects). (Maybe other years earlier than that as well)

2001 (and maybe other year's, I'm not 100% positive) had a mobile "stretcher" as well, which acted as a replacement for an injured alliance partner who was non-operational at the time of the match.

Other teams were able to push those around with the bot on top of it, or empty if the team didn't show up I believe.

I know we handled & moved those in 2001 during the offseasons without a partner on them, so I may have an off-season ruling confused with a regular season one on that part. It may have just been put into play during the off-seasons because of a lack of 4 teams playing at the same time.

[fordchrist675]

Well thats just what I read on the site i don't agree with it either, i watched videos of the game. But you are right with the rest of the years

[manyquestions]

Going off xnaut's elements idea, perhaps they included all the elements, just so we would get the elements concept, but only one is actually useful. So, obviously, the game is played on planet Earth, there will be Air in the room, and Water in our bodies, but the real clue is that we finally get to add that flamethrower onto the robot! . . . or maybe I'm just dreaming. . . .

[Tetraman]

I'm going to put this here cause I rather not bump the Game Hint #3 prediction thread...

I predict that if we don't get a hint #3 tomorrow, we don't get another hint.

[ATannahill]

I'm going to put this here cause I rather not bump the Game Hint #3 prediction thread...

I predict that if we don't get a hint #3 tomorrow, we don't get another hint.
I disagree, I think there is a possibility of us getting an anagram of the encrypt password again, they just don't know what the password is. Maybe they will give us the real thing and we will anagram it without even trying it.

[jphilipp3]

okay so wasn't there something said a while back about "the best defense is a good offense?" (or something like that???) well if this was stated and the picture of dover matches the clue given about a "FIELD" maybe were talkin a contact competition this year.....possibly even the rules and what is considered "being rough" in general.....cause i mean the picture IS a FOOTBALL field.........:confused: :ahh:



There is some kind of football filled on Evergreen Dr, Dover, OH.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/scott4020/evergreen.jpg

[EricH]

okay so wasn't there something said a while back about "the best defense is a good offense?" (or something like that???) well if this was stated and the picture of dover matches the clue given about a "FIELD" maybe were talkin a contact competition this year.....possibly even the rules and what is considered "being rough" in general.....cause i mean the picture IS a FOOTBALL field.........:confused: :ahh:
You might be thinking of my signature. The quote is a common football/military one.

[MiniNerd24]

No way! Robotic football! I was dreaming that up years ago! It'd probably be the reason we were given the 50g absorbtion cRio this year all the "gentle bumping" could cause some damage.

[jphilipp3]

not like full on football but similar concepts to football such as force, how rough it could be to a certain degree...like that...such as allowing more leniency in that area

[jphilipp3]

oh ok i got ya now man....hmm i dont know then

[jphilipp3]

oh heres another idea.....
take a look at lines 2,3 and 4 of the hint


stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix...
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

okay line look up central drive in phx, AZ and it says "get connected" look at the map its a divided hwy ending a convergence....
then MINNETONKA AVE IN MINNETONKA, MN is a loop leadin to another CONVERGING interstate/hwy
to the field in Dover....
maybe racing is a bigger incorporation this year

racing>cnverge>repeat>home= RELAYS

[ATannahill]

oh ok i got ya now man....hmm i dont know then

oh heres another idea.....
take a look at lines 2,3 and 4 of the hint


stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix...
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

okay line look up central drive in phx, AZ and it says "get connected" look at the map its a divided hwy ending a convergence....
then MINNETONKA AVE IN MINNETONKA, MN is a loop leadin to another CONVERGING interstate/hwy
to the field in Dover....
maybe racing is a bigger incorporation this year

racing>cnverge>repeat>home= RELAYS

not like full on football but similar concepts to football such as force, how rough it could be to a certain degree...like that...such as allowing more leniency in that area

That edit button is there for a reason.

edit: So don't make multiple posts.