Game Hint #2

[Zflash]

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Game Hint # 2

Good Morning Teams,

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

23 Days until Kickoff
See you then


Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments

[smurfgirl]

This reminds me of the 2006 game hint- it was a riddle which mentioned Montanta's green heights, or something along those lines.

It sounds like there are different tasks in different locations? A lot of people talked about different "levels" or the possibility of platforms with the first game hint, this would still be consistent here.

I wonder if the pattern of the capitalized letters matters at all? CP, CP, but then MM, ED. It looked like it was going for a pattern, and then it got cut off at the end, maybe this has some sort of symbolism?

Thoughts on what the places mean?

[JohnBoucher]

What happens if we crash Google Maps???

[RMiller]

drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;


As a person who has lived in Minnesota (where Minnetonka is), when I read that I immediately think LAKE Minnetonka. It is a large lake in the suburbs of the Twin Cities. Lots of ice fishing in the winter.
Don't know what it means beyond that though.
-Ryan

[Stuart]

http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Evergreen.International.Airlines.302-674-4641

that's got to be the field evergreen in Dover . . well it could be

[Ryan Caldwell]

these are street names in cities

colorado st. is in parimount CA, there are shops all along the street.

[Akash Rastogi]

No no no, obviously its talking about a mini Tonka truck. Face it people, we're building Tonka trucks :rolleyes:

[joshsmithers]

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

UUUUUGGGGGGGG. Makes no sense! why are the prepositions screwed up?!?!?! It's really throwing me off. And where does the moonfish come in?

EDIT: For future reference to new thread readers, it was found here: http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

[IndySam]

There is a Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
A Central Ave in Phoenix, AZ
Minnetonka BLVD Minnetonka, MN
Evergreen Drive in Dover OH and DE

[RMiller]

Minnetonka BLVD Minnetonka, MN


Team 1816 built during the 2007 season just off of Minnetonka Blvd. at a Honeywell facility.
-Ryan

[martin417]

Since each of the terms in the ordered pairs are capitalized, they could be proper names. I looked, and in each of the cities listed (Paramount, CA; Phoenix, AZ; Minnetonka MN; and Dover, DE) there exists a street named for the first term in the pair. What does it mean? I have no idea.

[IndySam]

Zamboines are made on Colorado Ave in Paramount CA.

ICE GAME

[johnr]

I agree with smurfgirl. A set of tasks. Less interaction between alliances.
1--move out af starting position
2-- hook-up with other bots-universal connector in kop?
3-- do task
4-- get to finish line

[Ian Curtis]

then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

I like the sound of Evergreen. Perhaps the CMUcam is making a comeback, in some way that will allow it to be used all match. Or maybe a longer autonomous period, or even a self selected time for autonomous. That'd be nifty!

[IndySam]

Microsoft is on Central Ave in Phoenix

[Kevin Sevcik]

I have no useful input on the clue, but I'm terribly curious if the GDC ever stops to consider the effect their clues might have on the Google ranks of all these different words and phrases. I mean, Opah probably saw the biggest jump in popularity ever last week...

Won't someone think of the poor confused search engine optimizers?

[XaulZan11]

As a person who has lived in Minnesota (where Minnetonka is), when I read that I immediately think LAKE Minnetonka. It is a large lake in the suburbs of the Twin Cities. Lots of ice fishing in the winter.
Don't know what it means beyond that though.
-Ryan

As a Viking fan, I immediately thought of the Vikings 'love boat scandal', which occured on Lake Minnetonka. Hopefully this has nothing to do with the new game, because that would probably be a poor choice by FIRST...

[Doctorwho]

On google maps all Coordinates indicated by the clue end up going from near the west coast (The Paramount Cafe in Denver, Colorado and the town of Central, Phoenix) To the midwest (Minnetonka, Minnesota) To the East (Evergreen Field in Dover, Ohio).

If you put all of the points together it forms triangle similar to the one in the FIRST logo, so it might have a connection to what the game piece is this year, and it seems that there are going to be different actions related to the game piece (picking up, connecting) and then we need to place it somewhere ( The field) No clue how this relates to the fish though.

[Suspect_Deezy]

I have no useful input on the clue, but I'm terribly curious if the GDC ever stops to consider the effect their clues might have on the Google ranks of all these different words and phrases. I mean, Opah probably saw the biggest jump in popularity ever last week...

Won't someone think of the poor confused search engine optimizers?

lol


NO

[RMiller]

Microsoft is on Central Ave in Phoenix

On Minnetonka Industrial Rd is the Honeywell facility and St. Jude Medical. Minnetonka Blvd has lots of government offices for Minnetonka.

[whitetiger0990]

Someone on my team thought of a sort of "delivery" thing. Having to collect a bunch of things and delivery them. He made this guess based off the first clue (his train of thought was moonfish->shooting the moon->collecting hearts->collecting a bunch of something, craziness)

I think this hint sounds like a delivery.. not sure about the specific places though...

[Ryan Caldwell]

try looking at google maps street level camera dealy,

there are forklift cranes ouside on colorado ave, in paramount CA,

all of the central ave, st, & drives in phoenix connect to a 1st ave, st, drive.

there is a truck with a trailer when you get to the ground level camera for Minnetonka Blvd, minnetonka, MN

and there is a football field, off of evergreen dr, dover OH so maybe some sort on end zone, scoring area

[IndySam]

There is some kind of football filled on Evergreen Dr, Dover, OH.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/scott4020/evergreen.jpg

[IndySam]

Start with our Zamboni on a slippery surface, get some data from Microsoft, pick up a football in MN and play with it in Ohio.

[rees2001]

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.


I think it would be sweet if the robots started in a garage (shop)
Had to form a train of some sort
Go ice fishing
& then play football.


BUT since i am really really bad at these things... Have Fun & I'm going back to ignoring the game hints.

[Nate Smith]

Cities names matching the hint nationwide:
Paramount - 3 (CA, AL, MD)
Phoenix - 10 (AZ, IL, LA, MD, MI, MS, NY, OR, CO, GA)
Minnetonka - 1 (MN)
Dover - 10 (DE, NH, NJ, OH, AR, FL, ID, IL, IN, KS)

[Joe Ross]

I have no useful input on the clue, but I'm terribly curious if the GDC ever stops to consider the effect their clues might have on the Google ranks of all these different words and phrases. I mean, Opah probably saw the biggest jump in popularity ever last week...

http://www.google.com/trends?q=opah&ctab=0&geo=all&date=mtd&sort=0

[martin417]

It is interesting that on Nov. 13th there was a spike in searching for Opah. That was before the hint came out. I guess Dave was looking to see what we would find in a search.

[dipmeinaluminum]

I think it would be sweet if the robots started in a garage (shop)
Had to form a train of some sort
Go ice fishing
& then play football.


BUT since i am really really bad at these things... Have Fun & I'm going back to ignoring the game hints.


i cant stop laughing!!! your not the only one!

[keen101]

It's all gibberish to me, but i'll guess anyway.

good morning teams = there is a bright light up high.

paramount = steep terrain

evergreen = green light (to be used with the Ethernet camera)

I think this year will heavily depend on getting a camera to work. Before with the CMU camera the micro controller was barely able to use it. But, now we have a whole computer to control a camera.

other than that i have no idea. I like the idea of a triangle shaped match though.

[Teammax]

I haven't put it all together (and ofcourse I could be way of base) but this clue goes with my comments on the last clue. I have no idea what page I made my comments on but

OPAH is a French government agency to improve communities and living conditions. I do not speak french and I am not sure how what I said fits in "O.P.A.H." but this clue seems to point to the same thing. Where there are different activities going on at different places with one main goal in mind. What do you think?

[Grant Cox]

I told myself I'd stay out of the obsession this year, but I couldn't resist...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=Colorado+Ave,+Paramount,+CA+90723&daddr=Central+Ave,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+to:M innetonka+Dr,+Minnetonka,+Minnesota+55345+to:everg reen+st+in+dover&hl=en&geocode=&mra=pe&mrcr=1,2&sll=39.13006,-99.84375&sspn=17.79946,40.341797&ie=UTF8&z=4

A route connecting the four streets. Note that there are actually two Evergreen Drives in Dover, OH and Dover, DE, but they both satisfy my theory more or less. All four locations go from left to right, with the first two and the last two being at about the same "elevation" (the first two are more south, the last two more north). 4 stages? Second two higher up or something? Check out the link and you'll see what I mean.

Also, I think this confirms the idea that the game will involve some sort of a handoff or giving of the game piece to other bots. The Opah being a prizefish which is often given as a gift, then this:

Taking out of the shop = coming out of the home zone
Get connected = meet up with other bots
Make a pickup = handoff
Head to the field = go play the game

Granted this could also be interpreted to several of the other games (05-07 off the top of my head), where the human player has given the game piece to their bots. But the possibilities are there.

[Teammax]

Cities names matching the hint nationwide:
Paramount - 3 (CA, AL, MD)
Phoenix - 10 (AZ, IL, LA, MD, MI, MS, NY, OR, CO, GA)
Minnetonka - 1 (MN)
Dover - 10 (DE, NH, NJ, OH, AR, FL, ID, IL, IN, KS)

This is actually very useful thanks for the input

[sdcantrell56]

Perhaps it is some sort of capture the flag type game. POssibly start at different places, meet up with the rest of your team, pick up the flag and head to the endzone.

[s_forbes]

Maybe we have to make bike messenger robots? We have to stop by each location and drop off a package. By rule, no robot is allowed to have multiple speeds or brakes. Bonus points are given to robots that can do tricks and wear fashionable clothing.

[JesseK]

Just like last year's 3-coordinates hint, I think we are overthinking this hint.

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
1. Assume these are street names in cities, as previously pointed out.
2. Someone figure out what machine shops/garages are on Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
3. Someone figure out what computer, electronics, telephone, internet/etc places are along Central Ave in Phoenix. Note that these could also be anything that get people connected to each other, such as dating services, bridal shops, etc.
4. Figure out what delivery or food places that deliver are on Minnetonka St/Ave in Mennetonka, MN.
5. Figure out what parks/fields are on Evergreen St. in Dover.

List all of the businnesses/places from steps 2-5 and then we can proceed. This is one pretty cool hint :cool:

[EricH]

Just like last year's 3-coordinates hint, I think we are overthinking this hint.


1. Assume these are street names in cities, as previously pointed out.
2. Someone figure out what machine shops/garages are on Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
Zamboni is it. I tried machine shop, auto shop, automotive shop, and just plain shop in Google Maps.

[384 huband44]

is it possible for these places connected could be the arena?

[EricH]

is it possible for these places connected could be the arena?
Possible. Zambonis are used to resurface hockey arenas, pickup could refer to a pickup game of [your favorite sport] and you could easily play in a field. You play those pickup games when you're connected with your buddies.

[RMiller]

Possible. Zambonis are used to resurface hockey arenas, pickup could refer to a pickup game of [your favorite sport] and you could easily play in a field. You play those pickup games when you're connected with your buddies.

Like pond ice hockey on Lake Minnetonka.

[EricH]

Like pond ice hockey on Lake Minnetonka.
Exactly (though I don't think you use a Zamboni on that...).

What "connection points" are on Colorado in Phoenix? That could be important.

[IndySam]

Exactly (though I don't think you use a Zamboni on that...).

What "connection points" are on Colorado in Phoenix? That could be important.
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix

Microsoft is on Central Ave in Phoenix

[RMiller]

Exactly (though I don't think you use a Zamboni on that...).


I just remembered there is an ice arena on Minnetonka Blvd. (with all the other government buildings) (it is Minnesota after all).

[ebmonon36]

I looked on Wikimapia along Colorado Ave in Phoenix. There were 3 or 4 bank buildings (skyscrapers), some restaurants, 2 schools a Make a Wish office, and one of McCain's condos (the clue doesn't reference the locations of the others. I already explored that). Nothing that really stood out though.

Edit: and microsoft as pointed out. I kept thinking that was in Paramount...I'm confused already

[EricH]

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix
You're right! Especially with some of the more recent Microsoft commercials.

So, Zamboni connects via computer to an ice arena on Minnetonka Blvd.-- Oh, no. Autonomous ice smoothing.

What about that last one?

BTW, I detect the return of HDPE. I thought we'd lost that after 2004. More specifically, ramps with HDPE.

[rfrank]

Guys, I figured it out. Minnetonka -> Minnetonka Lake -> water game.

So it's clearly a water game.

[smurfgirl]

So, Zamboni connects via computer to an ice arena on Minnetonka Blvd.-- Oh, no. Autonomous ice smoothing.

What about that last one?

BTW, I detect the return of HDPE. I thought we'd lost that after 2004. More specifically, ramps with HDPE.

Maybe just autonomous smooth/slick something? Ice is a little harder to do...

And the HDPE thing is definitely possible... especially since you mention ramps, I'm still hooked on the idea of different "levels".

[EricH]

Guys, I figured it out. Minnetonka -> Minnetonka Lake -> water game.

So it's clearly a water game.Two problems: 1) Zamboni 2) Minnesota in winter is frozen.

Ice game.

Hence the HDPE in my last post--that's commonly used as fake ice.

Oh and there's worse. Much worse...

Dave posted this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422)a while back. 'Nuff said.

[T3H_K3YM45T3R]

maybe the moon fish and the "Good Morning Teams" could go together, as to say you start out with a dark playing field or start out having to use the camera for sight and then move on to a brighter field or be able to see without use of the camera.

I like the idea of an "ice game" but I the only problem that I see is how they would keep the ice frozen and then all of the competitions would have to have a zamboni, if traction wheels can go through carpet I think they can probly go through ice...

[EricH]

I'm thinking that the "Good morning teams" is not part of the hint. If you look at all his posts, they either start out that way or start with "Good afternoon teams".

[RJ886]

hi
the first hint was a fish called the opah. and thanks to the second hint i belive that this game would be about fishing or using and arm to grab an object.

if you have any more information about the challenge this year please post a reply to my comment

thankz
^(0_0)^

[Andrew Schreiber]

Two problems: 1) Zamboni 2) Minnesota in winter is frozen.

Ice game.

Hence the HDPE in my last post--that's commonly used as fake ice.

Oh and there's worse. Much worse...

Dave posted this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422)a while back. 'Nuff said.

Ice games would be favoring us who actually get ice. :)

I also apologize for this useless post so I will toss some speculation.

Picture a combination of 2003 and 2004, multiple levels on the playing field using a slippery substance as the ramps (HPDE as Eric suggests) This was pulled from the moonfish's vertical migrations (Hanging please?) and the same place as Eric's HPDE comment.

Now back to watching us skew google results. What if some company just hired FIRST to do SEO for them?

[smurfgirl]

Picture a combination of 2003 and 2004, multiple levels on the playing field using a slippery substance as the ramps (HPDE as Eric suggests) This was pulled from the moonfish's vertical migrations (Hanging please?) and the same place as Eric's HPDE comment.

Now back to watching us skew google results. What if some company just hired FIRST to do SEO for them?

Yes, I agree, that's exactly what I think.

[smurfgirl]

Picture a combination of 2003 and 2004, multiple levels on the playing field using a slippery substance as the ramps (HPDE as Eric suggests) This was pulled from the moonfish's vertical migrations (Hanging please?) and the same place as Eric's HPDE comment.

Now back to watching us skew google results. What if some company just hired FIRST to do SEO for them?

Yes, I agree, that's exactly what I think.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Connection On Central in Phoenix:

There is a N Central Ave and S Central Ave in Phoenix AZ.
Maybe something of interest where they connect?

[lbarger]

My first thoughts, not published on the Hint #1 thread was why did FIRST look for a picture of a "moon fish". We know they have thrown NASA challenges at us before. I therefore speculated it was having to do with the moon, perhaps the search for water ice for a sustained based. But harvesting 'water ice' would not make an exciting game. What else would NASA want to do on the moon with robots?

After Hint 2, I am expecting a construction challenge. Robots may have to work together to assemble something and then rush home for bonuses.

Now I am stretching further to see what the game might be...
Some robots may have to assemble a goal while one or more others gather the scoring elements. If the scoring elements are in the assembled goal and the robots are back in their starting base, there are bonuses. Would be interest...

[Boydean]

The true question is...

http://usfirst.org/uploadedImages/clue1.jpg


what does this mean for the fish?!?!? :eek:

[wooodman4449]

i am in phoenix and our school is on central. we host the kickoff every year, could this have anything to do with it?

[EricH]

What I saw on Minnetonka in Minnetonka: A bunch of parks, about half of which had athletic fields (pickup game, or pickup from a game) and one of which had some form of dome; a bunch of lakes and ponds (pond hockey--another "pickup"), and a marina or so. This using Google Maps.


Final analysis (for now): sports-based game, most closely related to hockey. There will be HDPE or Lexan on the field, on a raised element. You don't have to be on the raised element to score, but you will need to keep moving (fish and format of the last clue). And don't damage the field!

[billbo911]

I really hate jumping in without finishing the thought process, but I just can't help myself.

OK, from clue #1.
An Opah, a gift that is given away.

From clue #2.
During Autonomous, the package (the gift) can be picked up.
It will then be "connected", passed off, via Microsoft in Phoenix, through a window or "Windows".

The rest I am still working out.

This same sequence above can continue during tele-op, but bonuses are applied during autonomous.

Keep working on this........ I feel like I am rambling a bit here.

[JesseK]

BTW, I detect the return of HDPE. I thought we'd lost that after 2004. More specifically, ramps with HDPE.

Hence the HDPE in my last post--that's commonly used as fake ice.

So a slick surface. We could have to "pick up" something at the top of a very slippery ramp.

Connection On Central in Phoenix:

There is a N Central Ave and S Central Ave in Phoenix AZ.
Maybe something of interest where they connect?
Good catch!

Furthermore, I wonder if the last line refers to Evergreen Farms (http://www.gardens.com/go/view/340/). The two references to this are that it's Christmas season, and we are in fact playing on a sort of field. So maybe other than the ramps, there will be many obstacles in the middle of the field.

The final conjecture I have for the last line is that Dover Publications has a Dover Evergreen Classics (http://store.doverpublications.com/by-subject-children-dover-evergreen-classics.html) collection which has many popular childrens stories in it. Many of those stories have references to fields in them. Unfortunately, this company is in Mineola, NY...so the street/city nomenclature doesn't match.

[Alan Anderson]

It will then be "connected", passed off, via Microsoft in Phoenix, through a window or "Windows".

That's brilliant!

[Roger]

I showed this to one of our (non-technical) mentors, she wrote back:

I was better off with the fish....

[Greg Needel]

It will then be "connected", passed off, via Microsoft in Phoenix, through a window or "Windows".



I really like this, Also I will throw out there that evergreen drive, DE is connected to South Dupont Highway. Since we all know that the DuPont Color associated with FIRST is green I say the green lights are coming back.

If we follow this theme what other company's and then products can we infer from the other lines.

[SuperJake]

then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

If we are sticking with the location gig, I found an Evergreen International Airport (air field) in Dover, Delaware.

It is located at the Dover Air Force Base.

<edit> Here is a map with the current locations that have been mentioned (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=15714+Colorado+Ave,+Paramount,+CA+90723+(Fra nk+J+Zamboni+%26+Co)&daddr=2929+N+Central+Ave+%23+1400,+Phoenix,+AZ+850 12+(Microsoft+Corporation)+to:44.934717,-93.633041+to:Bldg+500,+Dover+Afb,+DE+19902+(Evergr een+International)&hl=en&geocode=FT0gBQId_P_0-CEgNTvoOt331g%3BFZbj_gEdIuZR-SE-ZUaaTrMrcw%3B%3BFbsoVQIdXmqA-yHqffG9tVICEg&mra=me&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=2&sz=12&sll=44.916437,-93.55751&sspn=0.127638,0.243416&ie=UTF8&ll=41.376809,-96.855469&spn=34.470856,62.314453&t=h&z=4).

Maybe there is a wall separating one alliance partner from the other two. The two alliance partners have to feed the one (or vise versa) playing pieces to score.
</edit>

[martin417]

If we are sticking with the location gig, I found an Evergreen International Airport (air field) in Dover, Delaware.

It is located at the Dover Air Force Base.

That's it! flying game! Here's my entry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO67Yha_03g

[dtengineering]

Ice game.

Hence the HDPE in my last post--that's commonly used as fake ice.



Ice Game! Yes... combine that with the hockey pucks in the FTC game this year and the Canadian influence on FIRST is really starting to show! :)

Yeah, yeah... I know other countries play hockey... and thank goodness for that or international hockey matches would be rather boring.

Actually having some part of the playing surface be low-friction (perhaps hdpe) would be a most interesting challenge and would get away from the bigger torquier (is that even a word?) drive systems and pushing matches that defined success in a few of our past games.

The only catch would be coming up with a surface that teams could afford to practice on. A 4x8 sheet of HDPE could be fairly expensive. Simply using smooth concrete might serve the same purpose... but that would present a challenge in gymnasiums...

In any case, bring on the ice!

Jason

[ebmonon36]

Or if we go with the Dover, OH theory with the football field on Evergreen Drive, then the game piece will finally be footballs. Footballs were brought up in reference to the Opah's (tropical fish so I say no to ice fishing) shape.

[billbo911]

Or if we go with the Dover, OH theory with the football field on Evergreen Drive, then the game piece will finally be footballs. Footballs were brought up in reference to the Opah's (tropical fish so I say no to ice fishing) shape.

Adding to my pervious post and building on this one....
Passing, or making a connection through a target window, with a football (Nerf of course) could quite easily be part of the game.

Multiple mentions of a "light" also sit well with me. We do receive a camera with the KOP, or early shipment systems. The vision vi's do allow for specific color tracking. So the thought of hitting a mark with a projectile (like the arrow shape formed by the "moonfish" in "Finding Nemo", see hint #1 thread) sounds like a real possibility.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Ice Game! Yes... combine that with the hockey pucks in the FTC game this year and the Canadian influence on FIRST is really starting to show! :)

Yeah, yeah... I know other countries play hockey... and thank goodness for that or international hockey matches would be rather boring.

Actually having some part of the playing surface be low-friction (perhaps hdpe) would be a most interesting challenge and would get away from the bigger torquier (is that even a word?) drive systems and pushing matches that defined success in a few of our past games.

The only catch would be coming up with a surface that teams could afford to practice on. A 4x8 sheet of HDPE could be fairly expensive. Simply using smooth concrete might serve the same purpose... but that would present a challenge in gymnasiums...

In any case, bring on the ice!

Jason


Pucks, hmmm... maybe combine 2002 (the year with the big pucks if I recall) and a slippery surface with multiple levels. Each team is trying to give away the pucks.

Also, hockey, let us try to steer away from the negative aspects of hockey such as fighting. Instead let us steer more towards the positive ones such as Michigan teams winning :) Sorry, I had to toss that out there.

[Mr A.]

Could the Minnetoka pick up be in reference to TONKA trucks? Originally manufactured at Mound Metalcraft… Possibly some kind of transportation involving carrying and dumping.

[Cynette]

Or if we go with the Dover, OH theory with the football field on Evergreen Drive, then the game piece will finally be footballs. Footballs were brought up in reference to the Opah's (tropical fish so I say no to ice fishing) shape.Since I'm from Dover, DE, I love all the attention it's getting. But I agree with Eric, the football field on Evergreen Drive in Dover, OH is just about as in your face as it could get.

[EricH]

Pucks, hmmm... maybe combine 2002 (the year with the big pucks if I recall) and a slippery surface with multiple levels. Each team is trying to give away the pucks. 1999, the first year of alliances, the year of the puck, and the year of the floppies. For reference, the "puck" was an octagonal structure that gave you 2X your score if you controlled it and bonus points if you were on it. It was flat, about 6-12" high, and had two vertical uprights that weren't very tall. The floppies were donuts about half the puck's height with velcro around the edge and filling the center. They were stuffed with foam peanuts.

2002 was Zone Zeal, with five zones on the field. Hmm... hockey has zones, too!

[Animus]

Here is a map with the current locations that have been mentioned (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=15714+Colorado+Ave,+Paramount,+CA+90723+%28F rank+J+Zamboni+%26+Co%29&daddr=2929+N+Central+Ave+%23+1400,+Phoenix,+AZ+850 12+%28Microsoft+Corporation%29+to:44.934717,-93.633041+to:Bldg+500,+Dover+Afb,+DE+19902+%28Ever green+International%29&hl=en&geocode=FT0gBQId_P_0-CEgNTvoOt331g%3BFZbj_gEdIuZR-SE-ZUaaTrMrcw%3B%3BFbsoVQIdXmqA-yHqffG9tVICEg&mra=me&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=2&sz=12&sll=44.916437,-93.55751&sspn=0.127638,0.243416&ie=UTF8&ll=41.376809,-96.855469&spn=34.470856,62.314453&t=h&z=4).

Maybe there is a wall separating one alliance partner from the other two. The two alliance partners have to feed the one (or vise versa) playing pieces to score.

While I'm not sure there'd be a barrier quite so physical, I do like the idea of FIRST forcing us to rely on cameras to interact with our alliance partner(s). And it does fit with the fishing idea. Based on the idea of shooting the moon, maybe there's a competition to have either the least of a certain object on your side, or all of it... but that could result in sickening stalemates. Hmm, maybe not.

Someone mentioned a triangular field earlier, and while I think that's unlikely, it'd be interesting to have 3 alliances of 2 robots each. Hard to score, though.

[Zach Purser]

If you assume Dover, OH, the whole trip is right at 3000 miles (depending on where in Minnetonka you put the marker). Not sure what to make of that, we already assumed we would have 3 members per alliance. If were were to assume a triangle field, it could be 3 members per alliance, and 3 alliances, so 9 robots on the field at once???

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=15714+Colorado+Ave,+Paramount,+CA+90723+(Fra nk+J+Zamboni+%26+Co)&daddr=2929+N+Central+Ave+%23+1400,+Phoenix,+AZ+850 12+(Microsoft+Corporation)+to:44.938557,-93.465328+to:Evergreen+Dr&hl=en&geocode=FT0gBQId_P_0-CEgNTvoOt331g%3BFZbj_gEdIuZR-SE-ZUaaTrMrcw%3B%3BFT18agIdTNUk-w&mra=dme&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=2&sz=13&sll=44.943903,-93.495369&sspn=0.100117,0.150719&ie=UTF8&ll=36.949892,-95.976562&spn=56.682266,77.167969&z=4

[njamietech]

i like the idea of a hockey style game (ice optional). but thats mostly because I am from Calgary Alberta and as result I am a HUGE flames fan.

GO FLAMES GO.

anyways,

I think a hockey game is possible. I also like the idea of a triangluar field. we have had other field shapes but never a triangle.

however, i think a little more investigation is needed.

[MCahoon]

There are two species of opah - one of which is only found in the Southern Ocean waters around the South Pole (ice game?) 34th parallel south to the Antarctic Polar Front

[smurfgirl]

Pucks, hmmm... maybe combine 2002 (the year with the big pucks if I recall) and a slippery surface with multiple levels. Each team is trying to give away the pucks.

Does this make anyone else think of that picture with the curling robots on a multi-level ice field? I've been searching for it here, but to no avail.

[RMiller]

For what it is worth, that stadium in Dover, OH is not on Evergreen Dr. Rather, it is on 7th St and Evergreen Dr is housing.

[EricH]

Does this make anyone else think of that picture with the curling robots on a multi-level ice field? I've been searching for it here, but to no avail.
I linked to it earlier in this thread.

[RMiller]

Dave posted this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422)a while back. 'Nuff said.

Here

[JesseK]

If you assume Paramount, CA and Dover, DE, you can also make the conjecture that teams will have to go all the way from one side of the field to the other side of the field to complete the task.

[Zach Purser]

For what it is worth, that stadium in Dover, OH is not on Evergreen Dr. Rather, it is on 7th St and Evergreen Dr is housing.

That's a good point. And we know that Dean hates sports, so maybe a football field is a bad fit. An airfield does seem a better fit for a field that Dean would approve of.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Here

I think Eric was TRYING to get them to read the thread themselves. I'll say it again here (though I know it will be ignored in this frenzy) READ THE THREAD!

[logicalyrandom]

Not really paying attention to the proper nouns used in the riddle, and combining it with the first hint, i think the game is likely to go as follows:

Autonomous mode: Bots must make a sensory connection to some sort of object, say, in the center of the field, and must 'fish' for an object, either up high or in a hole. Once Autonomous ends, the bots then must try to get similar objects from the sides of the fields, then must place then either in a goal on either their end of the field, or their opponents end of the field.

This fits the clues in the riddle and the picture of a fish.

[EricH]

I think Eric was TRYING to get them to read the thread themselves. I'll say it again here (though I know it will be ignored in this frenzy) READ THE THREAD!
Yep, that's part of it. The other part is I didn't want to go chase it down again.

And I second the call to read the thread. It's still under 100 posts, so it shouldn't take that long.

[GaryVoshol]

I'm a little surprised no one has come up with this yet:

There are FRC teams in Dover NH, Phoenix AZ and Minnetonka MN. But not in Paramount CA.

There is a Colorado in Paramount, a Central Ave in Phoenix, a Minnetonka (Drive?) in Minnetonka, and an Evergreen Valley Drive in Dover. The last is a small residential cul de sac, but there is a baseball field near the end of the drive. So it might not be the football stadium in Dover, OH.

[rtfgnow]

What I saw on Minnetonka in Minnetonka: A bunch of parks, about half of which had athletic fields (pickup game, or pickup from a game) and one of which had some form of dome; a bunch of lakes and ponds (pond hockey--another "pickup"), and a marina or so. This using Google Maps.


Final analysis (for now): sports-based game, most closely related to hockey. There will be HDPE or Lexan on the field, on a raised element. You don't have to be on the raised element to score, but you will need to keep moving (fish and format of the last clue). And don't damage the field!

I think we need to look closer at the dome, it jumps out at me for some reason, also does no one else see head on tothe field, a connection to FTC perhaps?

[Herodotus]

Just throwing this out there, but if we continue with the "uneven terrain" stuff, Dover could also be a dual reference to Dover, England, the site of some rather famous cliffs. I think if anything it would be a side reference though, I have a feeling the U.S. locations are more important.

[EricH]

There are FRC teams in Dover NH, Phoenix AZ and Minnetonka MN. But not in Paramount CA.
There are lots of teams relatively close to Paramount, CA, though. FRC 2174 is just northwest, FRC 1135 was just east, I live not too far to the west, andt there are teams there, oh, and Paramount's just up the 710 freeway from Long Beach, where the Los Angeles Regional will be held this year.

[rtfgnow]

I also notice a connection to movies, DreamWorks from moonfish and Paramount as in Paramount Pictures.

[EricH]

I think we need to look closer at the dome, it jumps out at me for some reason, also does no one else see head on tothe field, a connection to FTC perhaps?
It's not exactly in Minnetonka. It's closer to the area of Saint Louis Park, MN.

[lenny8]

has anymore conected the cities to see what the lines make?

[Elgin Clock]

Central (Ave) in Phoenix:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Avenue,_Phoenix,_Arizona

A place to get connected there, would be the Light Rail public railway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRO_Light_Rail_(Phoenix)).

[1337 Sean]

I believe we will be ice fishing so to speak.

Slippery areas would give the drive team something new to think about, while fishing would give upper mechanical a challenge.

As for programming i think the camera will be used to locate the "fish" in autonomous mode.

Just a guess based on other peoples ides but work off of it please.

[RMiller]

What I saw on Minnetonka in Minnetonka: A bunch of parks, about half of which had athletic fields (pickup game, or pickup from a game) and one of which had some form of dome; a bunch of lakes and ponds (pond hockey--another "pickup"), and a marina or so. This using Google Maps.


Do you remember what cross-street you saw the dome at? I don't recall a dome out that way and didn't see anything that I thought was one.

[AndyB]

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

Running with IndySam here:

There is a Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
A Central Ave in Phoenix, AZ
Minnetonka BLVD Minnetonka, MN
Evergreen Drive in Dover OH and DE

There is a zamboni shop on Colorado Ave in Paramound, CA (Machine out of the shop)
There is a fair trade internet cafe on Central Ave., Phoenix, AZ (Get connected)
"Goin' Postal is a shipping center on Minnetonka Blvd., Minnetonka, MN. (Make a pickup)
Crater Stadium, home of the Dover Tornados is on Evergreen Dr., Dover, OH (head to the field)

[EricH]

Do you remember what cross-street you saw the dome at? I don't recall a dome out that way and didn't see anything that I thought was one.
It's in Bronx Park, Saint Louis Park, MN, if it is a dome. Closest to Idaho Ave. S and Minnetonka.

[GaryVoshol]

"Goin' Postal is a shipping center on Minnetonka Blvd., Minnetonka, MN. (Make a pickup)Aaaahh, mailboxes again! :ahh:

[smurfgirl]

I linked to it earlier in this thread.


Oh sorry, I missed the bottom line on that post... which happened to be the one that had the link.

I guess I'm not the only one who thought of that, though. (:

[Tetraman]

Just read the bold parts...

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

I think that's wayyyy more important than the places.

[RMiller]

It's in Bronx Park, Saint Louis Park, MN, if it is a dome. Closest to Idaho Ave. S and Minnetonka.

I think that is a water "tower" (not elevated). It is too small to be a dome for a sports facility at the least.
-Ryan

[joshsmithers]

Just read the bold parts...

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

I think that's wayyyy more important than the places.


Are you suggesting that the places are red herrings? Half this thread is analyzing the places. They're there for a reason, and I'm willing to bet they go hand in hand with their respective tasks you bolded. The places mean that there is a certain displacement in between the tasks.

Remember 06, where there were four periods of play: Auto, Offense, Defense, and free-for-all. It took time to get from one period to the other. Likewise, it takes time to get from one of those places to the other. I see the return of the periods of gameplay.

Don't rule out the places so fast;)

[Elgin Clock]

Running with IndySam here:
There is a zamboni shop on Colorado Ave in Paramound, CA (Machine out of the shop)
There is a fair trade internet cafe on Central Ave., Phoenix, AZ (Get connected)
"Goin' Postal is a shipping center on Minnetonka Blvd., Minnetonka, MN. (Make a pickup)
Crater Stadium, home of the Dover Tornados is on Evergreen Dr., Dover, OH (head to the field)

Ahahahaha!! I don't discredit your guess, since it's indeed very plausible, but isn't that what we currently do already??? O_o

(Machine out of the shop) - Get out of the pits!
(Get connected) - Make sure your electrical system works and/or hook up to driver's station!
(Make a pickup) - Be sure you have that flag for your alliance color!
(head to the field) - Get your bot on that field!

[Josh Drake]

Where is Adam West when you need him?

[Tetraman]

Are you suggesting that the places are red herrings? Half this thread is analyzing the places. They're there for a reason, and I'm willing to bet they go hand in hand with their respective tasks you bolded. The places mean that there is a certain displacement in between the tasks.

Remember 06, where there were four periods of play: Auto, Offense, Defense, and free-for-all. It took time to get from one period to the other. Likewise, it takes time to get from one of those places to the other.

Don't rule out the places so fast;)

I agree with you completely that the places are just as important as the actions.

If you want me to think about the places...I'll say that Colorado is a square with 4 corners, Pheonix is in the state of Arizona a state with 3 corners, Minnetonka is in the state of Minnesota a state with 2 corners and Dover is in the state of Delaware a state with 1 corner.

[RMiller]

If you want me to think about the places...I'll say that Colorado is a square with 4 corners, Pheonix is in the state of Arizona a state with 3 corners, Minnetonka is in the state of Minnesota a state with 2 corners and Dover is in the state of Delaware a state with 1 corner.

How are you defining "Corners"? If you look at the NW corner of Delaware, I think you will find a second corner. There may be more in other states depending on how you define a corner.
-Ryan

[Tetraman]

How are you defining "Corners"? If you look at the NW corner of Delaware, I think you will find a second corner. There may be more in other states depending on how you define a corner.
-Ryan

90 degree corner

[billbo911]

(Machine out of the shop) - Get out of the pits!
(Get connected) - Make sure your electrical system works and/or hook up to driver's station!
(Make a pickup) - Be sure you have that flag for your alliance color!
(head to the field) - Get your bot on that field!


Honestly, I think this is the best analysis I have read yet.
The only hole is that we get the flags before we get connected. The order is off.

[logicalyrandom]

Are you suggesting that the places are red herrings? Half this thread is analyzing the places. They're there for a reason, and I'm willing to bet they go hand in hand with their respective tasks you bolded. The places mean that there is a certain displacement in between the tasks.

Remember 06, where there were four periods of play: Auto, Offense, Defense, and free-for-all. It took time to get from one period to the other. Likewise, it takes time to get from one of those places to the other. I see the return of the periods of gameplay.

Don't rule out the places so fast;)

I would say the places are red herrings. FIRST knows very well our tendency to over analysis everything, and the hints themselves are usually very simple. This thread on the whole is spending too much time with google maps and place names, trying to figure out the game from those, when the real hints are probably in the first part of each line. Why? The locations are just obscure enough to seem like viable clues, but have enough connections to send us on a wild goose chase.

[Bryan Herbst]

Adding to my pervious post and building on this one....
Passing, or making a connection through a target window, with a football (Nerf of course) could quite easily be part of the game.

Multiple mentions of a "light" also sit well with me. We do receive a camera with the KOP, or early shipment systems. The vision vi's do allow for specific color tracking. So the thought of hitting a mark with a projectile (like the arrow shape formed by the "moonfish" in "Finding Nemo", see hint #1 thread) sounds like a real possibility.

I'm going base a portion of my theory off of this.

We start with a connection of some sort (possibly with another robot or the addition of a manipulator or field piece to our robot), then put the manipulator through a window to fish something out (possibly a fish).

I believe the last part is saying that this is a hint about the field itself, not necessarily that the clue is about playing the game.

The first clue (a fish) connects nicely to Minnetonka (and Minnesota as a whole), as there is a lot of fishing here. Billbo's idea of a window could also connect to the "window" that ice fisher's make in the ice while ice fishing, and the zamboni idea would fit in with it well too- the connection could be the fact that zambonis move on ice more so than the fact that they smooth over the ice.


On a completely unrelated note, I definitely felt a little burst of happiness at Minnesota being in a hint.

[Stephen of REX]

Honestly, I think this is the best analysis I have read yet.
The only hole is that we get the flags before we get connected. The order is off.

Not necessarily, maybe this year they won't tell us what alliance we are on until we come onto the field.:ahh:

[Andrew Schreiber]

Not necessarily, maybe this year they won't tell us what alliance we are on until we come onto the field.:ahh:

That would defeat the whole purpose of alliances.

[EricH]

I would say the places are red herrings. FIRST knows very well our tendency to over analysis everything, and the hints themselves are usually very simple. This thread on the whole is spending too much time with google maps and place names, trying to figure out the game from those, when the real hints are probably in the first part of each line. Why? The locations are just obscure enough to seem like viable clues, but have enough connections to send us on a wild goose chase.Last year, they used places. I think that the places may actually be more likely to be hints than the first part of each line.

C, P, CA
C, P, AZ
M, M, MN
E, D, ? (could be NH or DE)

Looking at the above list (hint's Street, City, State first letter), I don't see any recognizable patterns, unless you count the CAM in the state names. Not being sure which Dover is referred to, I left that one questionable.

[Stephen of REX]

That would defeat the whole purpose of alliances.

Not really, you would just have to make up strategies with you team mates on the fly, which could even be fun!

[logicalyrandom]

Last year, they used places. I think that the places may actually be more likely to be hints than the first part of each line.

C, P, CA
C, P, AZ
M, M, MN
E, D, ? (could be NH or DE)

Looking at the above list (hint's Street, City, State first letter), I don't see any recognizable patterns, unless you count the CAM in the state names. Not being sure which Dover is referred to, I left that one questionable.

But again, aside from the speculations that have been running around this thread, what easily discernible information is there in the names? Compare that to the first section of that line, where some obvious hints are laid.

"Make a connection": communicate with something during autonomous, or simply a reference to the new control system.

"Make a pickup": our robots need to pickup the game pieces, and based upon the fish, this could involve picking them up from up high or from a hole

"head to the field": Dump the scoring pieces in a goal of some sort, or park the robot in a scoring area.

[kgzak]

Not really paying attention to the proper nouns used in the riddle, and combining it with the first hint, i think the game is likely to go as follows:

Autonomous mode: Bots must make a sensory connection to some sort of object, say, in the center of the field, and must 'fish' for an object, either up high or in a hole. Once Autonomous ends, the bots then must try to get similar objects from the sides of the fields, then must place then either in a goal on either their end of the field, or their opponents end of the field.

This fits the clues in the riddle and the picture of a fish.

I was thinking the same thing sorta. The making a connection makes sense because we are now using IP adresses.

[Booksy]

OK

The new Control System comes with this fancy new $230 camera. They obviously want us to use it. My guess is:

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
Take your robot out of the pits. Reference to ice, slippery surface. Machine capable of driving on ice.

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
Plug in your driver station and get your robot ready. Microsoft on Central, moonfish is an audio tracker, connect to something using audio/video tracking (my guess is video with the camera, find something on the field and go get it)

drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
When you start the game, pick up a game piece and take it to the actual playing field, maybe hand it over to another player and keep feeding them pieces or something.

then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
Take the piece to the field, kind of lumped it in with the last one.


Either way, I'm banking on camera's as a very important piece. That is almost a given in my mind.

I think the clue is a representation of a match. Where it starts and ends and what relates to what is still up in the air.

[EricH]

But again, aside from the speculations that have been running around this thread, what easily discernible information is there in the names? Compare that to the first section of that line, where some obvious hints are laid.

"Make a connection": communicate with something during autonomous, or simply a reference to the new control system.

"Make a pickup": our robots need to pickup the game pieces, and based upon the fish, this could involve picking them up from up high or from a hole

"head to the field": Dump the scoring pieces in a goal of some sort, or park the robot in a scoring area.
Obvious? I don't think you read one of my posts earlier, where I talked about an alternative meaning.

"Make a connection" with your buddies to "make a pickup" game of your favorite sport. You "Head to the field" to do that, don't you?

And why would they include the last part of each line if it doesn't help attempts to decipher the hint? With the GDC, every element of a hint has a meaning. Even the shape, if it has one, can have a meaning. If it doesn't have a meaning, the hint would have read

"Take your machine out of the shop;
stop by and get connected;
drive by and make a pickup;
then head to the field."

It doesn't make much sense that way, does it? Looks like a todo list.

On the other hand, if you just have the locations, you get a bunch of locations and nothing else to help.

"on Colorado in Paramount;
on Central in Phoenix;
on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
on Evergreen in Dover."

Now it really doesn't make sense.

In a sense, it is a todo list. But it tells where, not just what.

Wait a minute. Amazing Race has a set of clues that tell contestants what to do. I wonder...
GDC, you're a year late with this one!

[logicalyrandom]

Obvious? I don't think you read one of my posts earlier, where I talked about an alternative meaning.

"Make a connection" with your buddies to "make a pickup" game of your favorite sport. You "Head to the field" to do that, don't you?

And why would they include the last part of each line if it doesn't help attempts to decipher the hint? With the GDC, every element of a hint has a meaning. Even the shape, if it has one, can have a meaning. If it doesn't have a meaning, the hint would have read

"Take your machine out of the shop;
stop by and get connected;
drive by and make a pickup;
then head to the field."

It doesn't make much sense that way, does it? Looks like a todo list.

On the other hand, if you just have the locations, you get a bunch of locations and nothing else to help.

"on Colorado in Paramount;
on Central in Phoenix;
on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
on Evergreen in Dover."

Now it really doesn't make sense.

In a sense, it is a todo list. But it tells where, not just what.

Wait a minute. Amazing Race has a set of clues that tell contestants what to do. I wonder...
GDC, you're a year late with this one!

I agree that GDC wouldn't simply have part of a hint without a reason, however, as I stated earlier, IMO the locations are in the hint as red herrings, to make us over analyze. And when I said "obvious" I meant that work required to decipher the first part of each line is much less then the amount of work put into deciphering the locations. Though I agree that a robot form of the amazing race would be awesome.





EDIT: Another idea as to the third line: Perhaps we once again have human players handing game pieces to the robots, only this time from the sides, not ends, of the field.

[Dan2081]

"Take your machine out of the shop;
stop by and get connected;
drive by and make a pickup;
then head to the field."

This has to be describing pre-game activity
1- out of the pits
2- form strategies as to what your robot will be doing in particular
3- possibly every robot starts with certain game piece
4- start the game

[Stephen of REX]

Another idea as to the third line: Perhaps we once again have human players handing game pieces to the robots, only this time from the sides, not ends, of the field.
Yes, cooperation between a human player and a robot in autonomous robot would be cool, because it would require better control both by the human player and by the autonomous code. Slots on the side of the field for pieces would facilitate the robots "make a pickup" then "head to the field".

[guakam0li1089]

pulling a few ideas together, maybe we have to construct a goal and score by going up and down slippery ramps (unlevel playing field) to get the object most likely a sports ball, such as a foot ball basketball or such, and score by putting through the goal constructed. this game woud even allow for defense by trying to stop the other team from scoring. (maybe a few defensive bots might get thier ankles broken playing D)

[Mr_I]

Running with IndySam here:



There is a zamboni shop on Colorado Ave in Paramound, CA (Machine out of the shop)
There is a fair trade internet cafe on Central Ave., Phoenix, AZ (Get connected)
"Goin' Postal is a shipping center on Minnetonka Blvd., Minnetonka, MN. (Make a pickup)
Crater Stadium, home of the Dover Tornados is on Evergreen Dr., Dover, OH (head to the field)


Goin' Postal ?!? The game's a shoot 'em up?? :eek:

[JaneYoung]

On a completely unrelated note, I definitely felt a little burst of happiness at Minnesota being in a hint.

That's cool. It's neat that teams can easily be made to feel a part of the process. Little bursts of happiness should happen more often.

[logicalyrandom]

Goin' Postal ?!? The game's a shoot 'em up?? :eek:

Is it wrong that when I read Goin' Postal, I though of the Discworld book?

[Tetraman]

(Machine out of the shop) - Get out of the pits!
(Get connected) - Make sure your electrical system works and/or hook up to driver's station!
(Make a pickup) - Be sure you have that flag for your alliance color!
(head to the field) - Get your bot on that field!

The game hint is - There is no change in robot prep if you do it already.

[krankin]

all right
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
we drive out of the "shop" (some structure on the field)

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
we have to get on the light rail that runs down the middle of Central

drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
we then have to pick something up in Minnetonka (I don't know what yet)

then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
then we load what ever we pick up in Minnetonka into the cargo planes at
Evergreen air field.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

OK, I'll take a poke at this one as well :p

I believe each statement is a hint as to what you have to do, and where you will be doing it

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;

Take your machine out of the shop = each team will have a starting zone
on Colorado in Paramount = starting zones will be on a (very) high promenient spot (example in FTC?), possibly just off the field.

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;

Stop by and get connected = you will need to join with a game piece ... possibly like a train coupling or trailer hitch. Game piece may be needed to score further (or only game piece can score)
on Central in Phoenix = in the center of the field ... Phoenix I'm not sure about here. Possibly the 'connected game pieces' recycle or replenish.

drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;

drive by and make a pickup = You'll need to 'load' what you connected to. Ammunition?
on Minnetonka in Minnetonka = The 'loading device' must be small.

then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

then head to the field = head to where you can score
on Evergreen in Dover = scoring zone will be illuminated and elevated (re: Cliffs of Dover in England)


Feel free to tear this theory apart.

[Herodotus]

Is it wrong that when I read Goin' Postal, I though of the Discworld book?

Not at all, I thought the same. Maybe it will be a water game, but it will use water from the Ankh, so we'll be able to just drive over it anyways :D

[Mr_I]

Is it wrong that when I read Goin' Postal, I though of the Discworld book?

Not at all! I, too, am familiar with the exploits of Moist Van Lipwig! :cool:

[anonymous_geniu]

the first one refers to a Zamboni shop, which "cleans the ice" of ice rinks
the second and third refer to ice hockey, and possibly to figure skating
the fourth refers to field hockey

[Electricia 1599]

what was the game hint #2and how did you find this out?

[Mr_I]

Please read the first post on this thread.

[rilesmitch]

Originally Posted by Zflash
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

take machine out = game start (let the robots roll)
stop by and get conected = posible a loading station (what for though?)
drive by... PICK UP = mabey a little fishing/claw game action (the Opah)
then head.... field = scorring zone all point scored objects need to be un loaded.:D

[DonRotolo]

It is a fish!

Oh, sorry. Wrong clue.:ahh:

The game will involve leaving the home zone to a location where robots will gain advantage(s) by linking up in some way (likely physically), going to some other area to obtain the game piece and then transporting it to a scoring zone.

Remember, early in the 'new robot controller' era the cRio* was touted as having the ability for robots to communicate with each other?

*Actually, the wireless thingus was what enabled the communication IIRC

This is my only speculation post in this thread as well.

[matt91]

has anymore conected the cities to see what the lines make?
i have. it makes a weird square. one end is more narrow than the other... possible track shape? who knows?!

[ExarKun666]

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

From what I previewed from reading this whole forum was a couple of things. I don't really think the places are to important. I do think that that the robot will have to stop somewhere on the field to obtain an object, or when it says drive by and make a pickup, this could mean the players can also plac this object on the robot, then they head over to a possible green lighted area (like in a before competition, where you sought out the green light) using your camera. The first hint I think adds to this, and you should look at the games they already have made. FTC game, there are two rugged areas on their field so this could mean two different rugged areas, because the new control system can handle rugged terrain, and since it is a "moon fish", and the moon is rugged, this also suggests for some rugged terrain. I can't figure out specifically what the rugged terrain is or what the objects are, but that's my best guess.

[Booksy]

Remember, early in the 'new robot controller' era the cRio* was touted as having the ability for robots to communicate with each other?

*Actually, the wireless thingus was what enabled the communication IIRC

This is my only speculation post in this thread as well.

Yeah, robot-robot communication would be a fun challenge. I definitely believe FIRST is going to make it something that takes advantage of the new system dramatically, while still making the game as easy or hard as you want it to be, as in '08, where you could have just driven laps if you wanted.

Point is, it won't be something that would make every team do a ridiculous challenge. That said, however, it might be a ridiculous challenge for one of the alliance members.

Maybe the robots will be able to have variable amounts of communication, the more communication you have, the more possible points.

There are so many separate ideas that I can't even write what I want to say. Let's just take all the ideas, put them together and shuffle the words. Whatever comes out of that will be the consensus.:p

[Dan Richardson]

Just kind of a horrible little tidbit but there is a giant field at the end of what is a very short "Evergreen Ln" in Dover New Hampshire.

[JayZ]

A quick google search for "connected on Central in Phoenix" came up with a law office which is on Central Ave in Phoenix, Arizona. Apparently, they are having a "Stay Connected" seminar. Coincidence? I think not ;)

here's the link: http://www.lrlaw.com/events/xprEventsDetailLR.aspx?xpST=EventDetail&event=79

[ExarKun666]

Yeah, robot-robot communication would be a fun challenge. I definitely believe FIRST is going to make it something that takes advantage of the new system dramatically, while still making the game as easy or hard as you want it to be, as in '08, where you could have just driven laps if you wanted.

Point is, it won't be something that would make every team do a ridiculous challenge. That said, however, it might be a ridiculous challenge for one of the alliance members.

Maybe the robots will be able to have variable amounts of communication, the more communication you have, the more possible points.

There are so many separate ideas that I can't even write what I want to say. Let's just take all the ideas, put them together and shuffle the words. Whatever comes out of that will be the consensus.:p

First, I agree with you, they are most definitely going to take advantage of what the new control system can do. I think the communication among robots will be limited to teams, I hope, otherwise there might be an interference factor, and the opposing team could potentially talk to your robot, but I don't think the competition will be to ridiculous. The communication idea for points wouldn't be such a bad idea for the game either.

[rtfgnow]

A quick google search for "connected on Central in Phoenix" came up with a law office which is on Central Ave in Phoenix, Arizona. Apparently, they are having a "Stay Connected" seminar. Coincidence? I think not ;)

here's the link: http://www.lrlaw.com/events/xprEventsDetailLR.aspx?xpST=EventDetail&event=79

Even weirder it is event #79, our team number.

[SlaminSwimster]

This is team 2614's guess.
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado [color-auto] in Paramount [very important]; stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix; link up with another robot visually, follow it around like schooling fish (the opah is specifically a non-schooling fish, a misleading clue or a 3rd robot that is independent). {could be referring to route 66 passing through Pheonix, following some-sort of trail}
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; place objects (probably colored or different shaped) into the other robot and vice versa (like dump trucks) then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover. end the match on a certain area of the field (possibly a different color than the rest of the carpet) {white cliffs of Dover in the English Channel, sailors would know that they were almost home when they saw them}

[xnaut]

Remember 06, where there were four periods of play: Auto, Offense, Defense, and free-for-all. It took time to get from one period to the other. Likewise, it takes time to get from one of those places to the other. I see the return of the periods of game play.

moon fish..... moons also have different phases.... and bumpy surfaces:confused: :confused:

i still stick with the bumpy (or moonlike) (ramps?) this way vets could get to harder places making a dynamic game but newbies could still be productive (like in overdrive... overpass = vets.....laps = newcomers) everyone wins!

we need to do a complete recap of what connects with the old fish and what ideas that peaple spent countless hours on can be swept away...:(

to many ideas have been introduced to come up with any type of conclution (for the most part) - you know its sad when within 7 hours over 100 posts were created

either way... i cant wait till january! :ahh: :ahh:

[pumbaa2007]

One of our team members is thinking that since all the places on the map seem to "cross" all over the "country" that this would be some sort of cross-country field, that is, one that is not flat. Which would make sense when it comes to the uneven surface of the moonfish. I'd also like to point out that we're a vet team and we lapped in overdrive, to great success (holding several records at peachtree).
1533

[ExarKun666]

we need to do a complete recap of what connects with the old fish and what ideas that peaple spent countless hours on can be swept away...:(

to many ideas have been introduced to come up with any type of conclution

I think ideas that should definitely be kept are:
- rugged surface
- some form of object will be picked up and placed at some end of the field
- the camera will most definitely be used to sense either a specific area or object
-robots will need to communicate with each other to do whatever the task will be

I am not sure on the other ideas, but I think these four should be kept while weeding out 'bad' ideas for a conclusion.

[xnaut]

Which would make sense when it comes to the uneven surface of the moonfish.

thanks you .... somebody agrees

I'd also like to point out that we're a vet team and we lapped in overdrive, to great success (holding several records at peachtree).
1533

and sorry i didn't mean it like that.... a lap bot was almost required on winning alliances...:D what i meant was... hurdleing was a chalanging aspect to the game that produced more points if done well.... hurtling wasn't worth it unless done efficiently ... like getting the harder to get points are worth more ... if done efficiently

[xnaut]

I think ideas that should definitely be kept are:
- rugged surface
- some form of object will be picked up and placed at some end of the field
- the camera will most definitely be used to sense either a specific area or object
-robots will need to communicate with each other to do whatever the task will be

I am not sure on the other ideas, but I think these four should be kept while weeding out 'bad' ideas for a conclusion.

GENIUS

[xnaut]

#150 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ExarKun666]

GENIUS

Thanks, I am not sure if I got all the ones that should be kept however, but I do know those four are in from what I've read from most people's posts in this forum as well as in hint #! forum, you can make additions to the list, but taking away from the current four is probably not a good idea, I don't mean to sound egotistical or anything.

[Animus]

On the bot communication note, maybe an allied bot will take over what has historically been the human player role - but on the field, of course. Like a shuttle run, where some object has to be handed off from one bot to another.

[DMetalKong]

I think that there will be a major point bonus that teams will have to work together to attain.

To clarify: maybe there is a section on the field that an alliance has to be in order to score.

Evil thought: Get two robots to hang balanced on either side of a teeter totter.

[EricH]

I think ideas that should definitely be kept are:
- rugged surface
- some form of object will be picked up and placed at some end of the field
- the camera will most definitely be used to sense either a specific area or object
-robots will need to communicate with each other to do whatever the task will be

I am not sure on the other ideas, but I think these four should be kept while weeding out 'bad' ideas for a conclusion.
I'm going to add slick surface to the list. If you take the hint as a whole, at least 2 of the 4 seem to point to ice. If I had to guess, the slick area would be on top of the rugged surface based on past games (2003, 04, 06).

[ExarKun666]

I think that there will be a major point bonus that teams will have to work together to attain.

Well there, I think, has always been an end of game point bonus, like 08 game was leave ball on the rack, so there will be a point bonus, and teams are going to have to work together to get it, like years before, I personally think the major point bonus will have something that requires bot communication, and without it the point bonus will be impossible, that's my thought.

[ExarKun666]

I'm going to add slick surface to the list. If you take the hint as a whole, at least 2 of the 4 seem to point to ice. If I had to guess, the slick area would be on top of the rugged surface based on past games (2003, 04, 06).

As I said before in a previous post, if you look at the FTC game their game has both a rugged and slick surface, so there might just be two types of surfaces that the robot must bypass in order to complete the game.

[ExarKun666]

I had an interesting thought about autonomous, has it been announced anywhere whether it's hybrid again this year or not, if not do the hints point to autonomous being hybrid again?

[rilesmitch]

This is team 2614's guess.
Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado [color-auto] in Paramount [very important]; stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix; link up with another robot visually, follow it around like schooling fish (the opah is specifically a non-schooling fish, a misleading clue or a 3rd robot that is independent). {could be referring to route 66 passing through Pheonix, following some-sort of trail}
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka; place objects (probably colored or different shaped) into the other robot and vice versa (like dump trucks) then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover. end the match on a certain area of the field (possibly a different color than the rest of the carpet) {white cliffs of Dover in the English Channel, sailors would know that they were almost home when they saw them}

nice! this seems the best one so far :eek:

[1jbinder]

Sorry to stop the fun. As of 3pm PDT there was no announcement of this on the FIRST website. I think it is a fake clue. It has been done before.

[DMetalKong]

Sorry to stop the fun. As of 3pm PDT there was no announcement of this on the FIRST website. I think it is a fake clue. It has been done before.

It isn't on the FIRST website, but it is on Bill's Blog (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/). I think that pretty much means that the clue is valid.

[Booksy]

It isn't on the FIRST website, but it is on Bill's Blog (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/). I think that pretty much means that the clue is valid.

Someone must have hacked his blog then.:yikes::p

[GBilletdeaux930]

Sorry if this has been repeated before but heres my thing about the locations:

Paramount California is the home of the Zamboni

Central Avenue, Phoenix, Arizona is currently the epicenter of the population in Phoenix.
Its where everyone is. So everyone is going to be going to a certain point to meet or something. Start in the same place?
Also, central avenue is where the rd numbering system in phoenix starts. So its like 0 and the nxt is 1 and so on.

Minnetonka means "great water"

and dover... well theres a field by evergreen dr. dover OH that was mentioned previously i believe.

But yea, go at it

[ExarKun666]

Sorry to stop the fun. As of 3pm PDT there was no announcement of this on the FIRST website. I think it is a fake clue. It has been done before.

Hypothetically if it was a fake clue, would FIRST tell you it was fake? Because if they don't say whether it is real or not, then there would be an argument whether it was real, and all that time trying to analyze it would be gone to waste.

[RoboGeek99]

when and where did we get this game hint?:ahh: :yikes: :ahh:

[Booksy]

when and where did we get this game hint?:ahh: :yikes: :ahh:

Looks like it came right from Bill's blog there.

[ExarKun666]

when and where did we get this game hint?:ahh: :yikes: :ahh:

Bill's Blog http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

[Steven Sigley]

"Take your machine out of the shop;
stop by and get connected;
drive by and make a pickup;
then head to the field."

This has to be describing pre-game activity
1- out of the pits
2- form strategies as to what your robot will be doing in particular
3- possibly every robot starts with certain game piece
4- start the game

On the idea that robots start with a certain game piece, has anyone considered, that rather than a multiple of one type of game piece there could be say 3 individual game pieces per alliance? Perhaps one tetra, one track ball, and one box. That'd be interesting.

[vincefitzgerald]

ive read this entire thread
and their are so many good
guesses and they all
are ver possible

[RoboGeek99]

Looks like it came right from Bill's blog there.

with that...is it official?

[vincefitzgerald]

good question
its not on the First website

[ExarKun666]

with that...is it official?

That's what is being figured out, no one can say, because even though the blog is linked in FIRST it just might be a gag hint, since last year's 2nd hint was actually posted on the FIRST website and not a blog, it was legit, but with this it is hard to tell.

[RoboGeek99]

*warning opah joke*
There is something fishy going on here...:rolleyes:

[Booksy]

On the idea that robots start with a certain game piece, has anyone considered, that rather than a multiple of one type of game piece there could be say 3 individual game pieces per alliance? Perhaps one tetra, one track ball, and one box. That'd be interesting.

Maybe we will have to do something like: http://www.mailorderexpress.com/shop/prdpics/110617.jpg

With a wall on one end, and different shaped game pieces, your robot has to put the block in the correct whole, maybe even just different colored holes.
(autonomously?)

[ExarKun666]

*warning opah joke*
There is something fishy going on here...:rolleyes:
Yes, there is, my guess, is that it may not be official since last year's hint was on the FIRST website, and this one is just linked off the FIRST website, so I would suggest not taking this particular hint so literally, and if there are any hints listed on the actual FIRST site, actually use those.

[1jbinder]

The first hint of this year was posted on the official FIRST website. This one was not. By no means though don't stop debating about if it is real or not. It is fun to watch.

[ExarKun666]

Maybe we will have to do something like: [url]
With a wall on one end, and different shaped game pieces, your robot has to put the block in the correct whole, maybe even just different colored holes.
(autonomously?)

You are describing a child's play toy type game, but there is still the question of how to implement a rough terrain in that as well as camera, personally I don't think that's it.

[rtfgnow]

We recieved an email blast about Bill's Blog, it has been mentioned on the First Forum and on the FRC page, I say it is legit. Also if you look back a few posts you will see a link to the opah picture.

[1jbinder]

We recieved an email blast about Bill's Blog, it has been mentioned on the First Forum and on the FRC page, I say it is legit. Also if you look back a few posts you will see a link to the opah picture.

On Bill's blog, the first hint is a link to the FIRST website. This one is just posted there. For all we know bill could be pulling are leg. It might just be me but this is pretty suspicious.

[ExarKun666]

We recieved an email blast about Bill's Blog, it has been mentioned on the First Forum and on the FRC page, I say it is legit. Also if you look back a few posts you will see a link to the opah picture.

That's interesting, didn't bother to look back, well I agree since the blog includes both hints, still a little iffy, but more certain then before.

[ExarKun666]

I personally think, just analyze it, don't debate it, I mean this is all about good fun, so just to be safe and just to get enjoyment, I think we should assume it to be a real hint, but that's just me.

[Booksy]

You are describing a child's play toy type game, but there is still the question of how to implement a rough terrain in that as well as camera, personally I don't think that's it.

Rough terrain: put it on the ground, put robot on terrain. done.
Camera: Colored holes and colored objects say, each team has 3 different coloured blocks and they have to put those blocks into the correct hole at the end of the field. This color could be recognized by the camera in autonomous.

[Steven Sigley]

did someone say rough terrain?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70519

[ExarKun666]

Rough terrain: put it on the ground, put robot on terrain. done.
Camera: Colored holes and colored objects say, each team has 3 different coloured blocks and they have to put those blocks into the correct hole at the end of the field. This color could be recognized by the camera in autonomous.
Could work, but just the mere fact of trying to do that autonomously would be hard to program for, unless they were at a set area, but then you would have to pick the object up just right, I don't rly see it, it's a good thought, but from what I've read, I don't see this as the game...but don't let me squish your imagination. :)

[Booksy]

Could work, but just the mere fact of trying to do that autonomously would be hard to program for, unless they were at a set area, but then you would have to pick the object up just right, I don't rly see it, it's a good thought, but from what I've read, I don't see this as the game...but don't let me squish your imagination. :)

To start, I don't really think it will be that either.

That said, My idea was have a robot start with the piece and just choose which bin/hole to put it in.

[EricH]

If Bill was faking, I would suggest a new photoshop victim to Heidi. After what she put Dave through... Or better yet, see if Dave wants a new challenger on Krispy Kreme eating.

Bill is the FRC competition director. I think he is on the GDC. Bill's Blog has been recognized by FIRST as the official regular update channel (or something like that).

And last year's first hint was sent directly to teams. People thought it was a joke/prank at first. Then FIRST came out and said "Yes, it is from us" and people quieted down a lot. It did take a day or three, though.

I'll call shenanigans if it isn't acknowledged/disavowed by my Statics final. That's Tuesday, 7:00 AM MST.

[ExarKun666]

To start, I don't really think it will be that either.

That said, My idea was have a robot start with the piece and just choose which bin/hole to put it in.

Oh well that is different then what I thought you were originally thinking of, srry misunderstood your original idea. But yeah that could be more of a possibility, a very interesting possibility, and would be more likely the game, then what I originally thought you meant, but with that said, I still do think, even with this idea, it prbly won't end up being the game, but who knows?

[Booksy]

Oh well that is different then what I thought you were originally thinking of, srry misunderstood your original idea. But yeah that could be more of a possibility, a very interesting possibility, and would be more likely the game, then what I originally thought you meant, but with that said, I still do think, even with this idea, it prbly won't end up being the game, but who knows?

I wouldn't be to afraid to bet that we are all wrong. :)

[ExarKun666]

I wouldn't be to afraid to bet that we are all wrong. :)

Yeah me either, it will most likely be a game that all the hints pointed to, and it will be really obvious, and there was no need to over analyze it or anything, then I would just laugh, or it might be a game that might relate to the hints in a way that no one thought of.:o

[calieanZET]

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Game Hint # 2

Good Morning Teams,

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

23 Days until Kickoff
See you then


Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments


I am not sure about the rest of the clue but I have an idea about the "get connected" part of the clue. Given that NASA is a big sponsor of FIRST, NASA is planning a new set of moon missions, and the first hint was a moonfish; perhaps there is a period of the game where the new camera must be used to connect to a scoring element, and that cannot be seen from the driver station. Similar to what was done during the Apollo missions, when the Orbiter had to dock with the lunar lander, via a remote "targeting" display, that could be located on the driver station. Perhaps during the autonomous/hybrid period, the robot is meant to do it automatically, but you are given the ability to make some minor corrections. You can never infer the entire game from the clues, and I am most likely completely wrong, but this would be a cool use of the new cameras abilities.

[ExarKun666]

I am not sure about the rest of the clue but I have an idea about the "get connected" part of the clue. Given that NASA is a big sponsor of FIRST, NASA is planning a new set of moon missions, and the first hint was a moonfish; perhaps there is a period of the game where the new camera must be used to connect to a scoring element, and that cannot be seen from the driver station. Similar to what was done during the Apollo missions, when the Orbiter had to dock with the lunar lander, via a remote "targeting" display, that could be located on the driver station. Perhaps during the autonomous/hybrid period, the robot is meant to do it automatically, but you are given the ability to make some minor corrections. You can never infer the entire game from the clues, and I am most likely completely wrong, but this would be a cool use of the new cameras abilities.

That would most definitely be a cool autonomous portion of the game, and the camera, I am almost positive, will be used in some way to detect an object for scoring, but to detect an object like the Apollo missions, is a new thought, that is actually interesting.

[Booksy]

22:16:40!

Can't wait any longer. Opah now controlling all system resources. Total system failure in 5... 4... 3... 2...:)

[njamietech]

maybe (reffering to camera use and bonus portion) we will not have autonomous or hybrid.

maybe there will be a period at the start of the match where there are curtains in front of the drivers station window and we have to use our cameras to see.

then (maybe) there will be a pause as the curtains are lifted and the bonus portion ends and we return to our normal mayhem.

and for the technical details, the curtians will be on motorized rollers (like the screens in some theaters (not movie theaters...Stage theaters)).

scary thought.

[RoboGeek99]

maybe (reffering to camera use and bonus portion) we will not have autonomous or hybrid.

maybe there will be a period at the start of the match where there are curtains in front of the drivers station window and we have to use our cameras to see.

then (maybe) there will be a pause as the curtains are lifted and the bonus portion ends and we return to our normal mayhem.

and for the technical details, the curtians will be on motorized rollers (like the screens in some theaters (not movie theaters...Stage theaters)).

scary thought.

that would be so cool...and that is the best guess at a good use of the fancy new camera we are getting

[ChrisH]

On Bill's blog, the first hint is a link to the FIRST website. This one is just posted there. For all we know bill could be pulling are leg. It might just be me but this is pretty suspicious.

I doubt very much that any of the people involved in designing the game or engineering the field would ever joke about a game hint. They might make a joke with a game hint, but the hint itself will be a real hint. Bill Miller is one of those people and is in a position to decide what information will be released when.

While the FIRST engineers are people like anyone else, they also have a high and sometimes lonely calling. Imagine working with only a few other people for most of a year and not being able to tell anybody about it. I have been there, years back when I worked in The Dark World. In some ways it was very exciting, but in the end it was more frustrating than anything else, and I still can't talk about some cool stuff except to people I don't see anymore. But they have it worse, if teams don't like the game they hear about it from 10,000 people, and will continue to hear about it for years to come. I've seen FIRST people shudder at the mere mention of a tape measure, people who weren't even involved with FIRST in '02. (newbies are encouraged to research the "tape measure controversy" of 2002)

To purposly put up a "joke" would seriously damage the credibility of the poster in the FIRST community. Something the FIRST engineers want to avoid at all costs. They understand just how much this means to all of you and they truly want to do a good job. They are not going to blow it for a chuckle.

I like Elgin's interpretation. It fits the clues, and only tells us that the flow if the event will be similar to years past. Which is a fancy way of saying nothing at all. Just the kind of thing I expect from the GDC.

[Booksy]

that would be so cool...and that is the best guess at a good use of the fancy new camera we are getting

I think the best use of the camera would be for autonomous. Driving around robots with joysticks isn't very robotic, more RC. I think we need a longer Auto mode, and a camera would make that possible(er).

[Katie_UPS]

I haven't read past page 3, but I am really up for this "capture the flag" game.

[logicalyrandom]

I think the best use of the camera would be for autonomous. Driving around robots with joysticks isn't very robotic, more RC. I think we need a longer Auto mode, and a camera would make that possible(er).

Isn't the new camera just visual spectrum? How would we be able to convert that into useful autonomous data?

[roboraven15]

i think that part of the game may include some sort of ice fishing, based of the moonfish and minitonka. Think, you could have a hole in the ground or box and you have to stick your arm or hook threw it and fish out the object (possibly one in motion). even then using your camera to find it in the hole which mormally can't be seen by the drivers. Intresting idea.

also in response to ice game field, they could use those Ez-Glide Synthetic ice rinks. http://www.ezglide350.com/ezvideo.php

[EricH]

Isn't the new camera just visual spectrum? How would we be able to convert that into useful autonomous data?It isn't too hard. The CMUCam II was able to track a target light that only output on the visual spectrum, if you could program it right and find the weight and space for it. It was quite good at it too. All you have to do is have the target be visually different enough from the background. Do your programming magic and you can do a lot of things just by looking at one green area. (Of course, the CMUCams had a tendency in testing to track anything but the light, for some poor programmers...)

I think these cameras are a little more advanced than the CMUCams.

[BornaE]

About "stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;"
this could have something to do with the new light rail in phoenix
most of central has light rail tracks and the grand openning is Dec 27th and 28th

http://www.valleymetro.org/images/uploads/METRO-starter-line.pdf

[seg9585]

All those streets in their corresponding cities are near railroad tracks. Maybe this has something to do with it.
The first clue was a fish, right? Anyone know of any underwater (tunnel) railroads?

[njamietech]

All those streets in their corresponding cities are near railroad tracks. Maybe this has something to do with it.
The first clue was a fish, right? Anyone know of any underwater (tunnel) railroads?

yes,

there is one under the english channel

EDIT: it was a mother of an engineering feat to build too

[EricH]

All those streets in their corresponding cities are near railroad tracks. Maybe this has something to do with it.
The first clue was a fish, right? Anyone know of any underwater (tunnel) railroads? The Chunnel between England and France counts as one. I'll assume that subway tunnels are out (sorry, New York City), or we'd have a lot more.

[logicalyrandom]

It isn't too hard. The CMUCam II was able to track a target light that only output on the visual spectrum, if you could program it right and find the weight and space for it. It was quite good at it too. All you have to do is have the target be visually different enough from the background. Do your programming magic and you can do a lot of things just by looking at one green area. (Of course, the CMUCams had a tendency in testing to track anything but the light, for some poor programmers...)

I think these cameras are a little more advanced than the CMUCams.

ah, ok. Thanks.

[rilesmitch]

a tunel may create a link through a "wall" and the teams go throught the tunels to play part of the game.
The game pices may be out of sight of the drivers
(the red team can see the blue robots and the blue can see the red, but they can't see their own bot

[ExarKun666]

All those streets in their corresponding cities are near railroad tracks. Maybe this has something to do with it.
The first clue was a fish, right? Anyone know of any underwater (tunnel) railroads?

Going off this idea, maybe there are several tunnels, and in autonomous it has to use it's camera to pick out which one gets to the item, that scores points, of course with the rugged or slick terrain thrown in there somewhere to make it a challenge.

[Noel]

Hi!

I'm just drawing from posts I read from this clue and the 1st one, so here it goes:

There are four types of the moonfish, and there are four sections
to this new clue, so it maybe a four-player game with some weird
alliances (I haven't really thought through this part). Or, each robot
is scored on how they complete their portion of the "race". I remember
from the first game hint that the angle of 37 degrees was mentioned
for some reason or another, but possibly we won't be elevation to a new
height, but delving deeper somehow (on a 37 deg. ramp), considering that
the moonfish is a deep sea fish. We'd have to use those wicked cool, omg I
screamed when I saw them cameras (my first year in FRC--obvious isn't it?)
to navigate the deep sea parts. Um, I think that was it.

My team mates and I are having mega fun reading these, although at times
we wonder if some people have been dropped on their heads a couple
of times...geez, I hope I'm not added to the list of "dropped on heads" people, that'd suck.

--a girl who doesn't want to be added to the list--

[jrdude]

H:\Documents\Pictures\map.png


If the image above works does anyone see something... like in the map... :confused:

[dodar]

Going off this idea, maybe there are several tunnels, and in autonomous it has to use it's camera to pick out which one gets to the item, that scores points, of course with the rugged or slick terrain thrown in there somewhere to make it a challenge.

it could be like a mini golf course, where you can choose different paths to take and you get to the end faster or to the game piece faster and if this just happens to be it I bet that there will be more than just a red and blue alliance lol

[jrdude]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/3101859268_49bd8d1e62_o.png


does anyone see something... like in the map... :confused:

[rilesmitch]

Any one see the fish?

bottem fin is FL
upper out line is the line
(see last post)

[ExarKun666]

it could be like a mini golf course, where you can choose different paths to take and you get to the end faster or to the game piece faster and if this just happens to be it I bet that there will be more than just a red and blue alliance lol

If this is it, it will prbly end up being free for all, and they would have to find a way to hide the paths, underneath so teams aren't able to tell which is shorter or longer.

[EricH]

Any one see the fish?

bottem fin is FL
upper out line is the line
(see last post)
Ouch! That one looks like a shark, too.

If the GDC is trying to tell us something... I don't know what it is!

[ExarKun666]

In response to the map picture, it looks like there is a sudden spike up to the north, and, I'm just guessing, it looks like it could be a ramp, and of course it's not a perfectly straight line, so uneven surface, just throwing that out there.

[logicalyrandom]

If this is it, it will prbly end up being free for all, and they would have to find a way to hide the paths, underneath so teams aren't able to tell which is shorter or longer.

A good idea, but we have to remember that FIRST needs to keep things simple to set up in terms of practice courses & at actual regionals, and the game needs to be spectator friendly.

[jrdude]

Any one see the fish?

bottem fin is FL
upper out line is the line
(see last post)

Yes a see the fish and a city is its mouth is near Virgina Beach???? :ahh:

[ExarKun666]

A good idea, but we have to remember that FIRST needs to keep things simple to set up in terms of practice courses & at actual regionals, and the game needs to be spectator friendly.

Point taken, so branching out then, and changing this a bit, the robots need to communicate to each other and be able to say I detected this item, just incase that one robot can't pick it up, it tells an alliance bot that can, so maybe a game that involves 3 totally weird objects that all have a significant different way of being picked up, that way you have 3 bots, 3 different attachments, and communicate to the specific bot that can pick the item up.

[Clourchn07]

i like the idea of ice field and as for hockey or fishing that could be fun!! i like the power bots lose their power

[bobwrit]

I'll back the slippery surface idea. It seems to fit with both the Opah clue(it's a fish. Ignore the Moon part...)and NASA(NASA's planning a series of missions to Europa. Europa is a ice planet). As for the camera, I'm agreeing with the idea that we will have to track some sort of light(Ooooh, I can see a way to put an more advanced AI if this is so.... So tantalizing... *Reveiws methods of creating Neural Networks*).

[Illegalsocks]

In the thread for Game Hint #1, somebody brought up that you can find an Opah on the stamp of Madeira, Portugal. The Flag of Madeira looks like it might be the layout of the playing field.

http://www.nat.is/images/portugal_madeira_flag.gif

The blue could be icy/slick sections and the red could be a raised portion of the field.

[ExarKun666]

In the thread for Game Hint #1, somebody brought up that you can find an Opah on the stamp of Madeira, Portugal. The Flag of Madeira looks like it might be the layout of the playing field.

http://www.nat.is/images/portugal_madeira_flag.gif

The blue could be icy/slick sections and the red could be a raised portion of the field.

Well I like the thought of that layout as being the playing field, but I think the yellow should be a ramp, the red is another raised area, with the blue and white being flat, because on the map, there is that rise to the north in the middle, so big hill thing in the middle of field maybe.

[Sam390250]

Well perhaps the communication thing and the tunnels is refering to alliance robots being on separate sides of the field

Such as Team A & B being an alliance and Team C & D being an aliance

it would be set up where Team A & D can see Team B & C's robots...and Team B & C can see team A & D's....

this would be difficult to set up though, and would need a small barrier or else there would be little room to do anything on the other side...

[logicalyrandom]

Point taken, so branching out then, and changing this a bit, the robots need to communicate to each other and be able to say I detected this item, just incase that one robot can't pick it up, it tells an alliance bot that can, so maybe a game that involves 3 totally weird objects that all have a significant different way of being picked up, that way you have 3 bots, 3 different attachments, and communicate to the specific bot that can pick the item up.

Now that's an interesting idea. Building off of that, we could see something along the lines of different shaped game pieces that can be stacked on top of each other, and are worth bonus points for larger stacks or for stacking them in a more difficult arrangement.

[xnaut]

Point taken, so branching out then, and changing this a bit, the robots need to communicate to each other and be able to say I detected this item, just incase that one robot can't pick it up, it tells an alliance bot that can, so maybe a game that involves 3 totally weird objects that all have a significant different way of being picked up, that way you have 3 bots, 3 different attachments, and communicate to the specific bot that can pick the item up.

this is a good idea... our bots could be Modular... this is so that if we have more than 1 type of thing to pick up (lets say tetra vs soccer ball) and we got our alliance members picking up tetras we through on our soccer ball mod. and go.... this would go with the new modular C-Rio...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
on another note... i have some knowledge of the camera as i was on the beta team for 79 Krunch so ........... the camera kicks face this year and we successfully tracked a green light (preformed the rack and roll autonomous) very well while watching it all parallel on our laptop wirelessly... so watching the camera while driving is a possibility but (this might have just been us) we found lag while sending cam. data as well as joystick data at the same time.

Jerry... if your reading this can you confirm or elaborate if there are any more questions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ExarKun666]

Now that's an interesting idea. Building off of that, we could see something along the lines of different shaped game pieces that can be stacked on top of each other, and are worth bonus points for larger stacks or for stacking them in a more difficult arrangement.
Yeah, but that's kind of like the game Elevation for VEX, and I think FIRST tries to make the games different like, so it's not the same thing, but with different bots, it's not a bad thought. But how bout if they do the stacking thing, they must carry the stack of objects to a designated area, for full points, and anything that falls off, doesn't count anymore.

[logicalyrandom]

Yeah, but that's kind of like the game Elevation for VEX, and I think FIRST tries to make the games different like, so it's not the same thing, but with different bots, it's not a bad thought. But how bout if they do the stacking thing, they must carry the stack of objects to a designated area, for full points, and anything that falls off, doesn't count anymore.

Ah, didn't know VEX was doing that. Carrying the objects to a stacking area would be neat, and if they place it in your opponents start area, could lead to some interesting tactics.

[ExarKun666]

this is a good idea... our bots could be Modular... this is so that if we have more than 1 type of thing to pick up (lets say tetra vs soccer ball) and we got our alliance members picking up tetras we through on our soccer ball mod. and go.... this would go with the new modular C-Rio...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
on another note... i have some knowledge of the camera as i was on the beta team for 79 Krunch so ........... the camera kicks face this year and we successfully tracked a green light (preformed the rack and roll autonomous) very well while watching it all parallel on our laptop wirelessly... so watching the camera while driving is a possibility but (this might have just been us) we found lag while sending cam. data as well as joystick data at the same time.

Jerry... if your reading this can you confirm or elaborate if there are any more questions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm...that is interesting, if you can watch it via laptop that would definitely be useful information to have, to determine what kind of things they could come up with that, although, would be infinite. The lag thing sounds problematic though :(

[ExarKun666]

Ah, didn't know VEX was doing that. Carrying the objects to a stacking area would be neat, and if they place it in your opponents start area, could lead to some interesting tactics.
Yes, they should give bonus points if you actually managed to get it over to the opponent's side, and add the fact that the opponent can take the objects out, so you can have the option to have a defensive bot to guard the items once there.

[logicalyrandom]

Yes, they should give bonus points if you actually managed to get it over to the opponent's side, and add the fact that the opponent can take the objects out, so you can have the option to have a defensive bot to guard the items once there.

Now all they have to do is remove the rule about not crashing into other robots, and we will have a very interesting game on our hands.

[ExarKun666]

Now all they have to do is remove the rule about not crashing into other robots, and we will have a very interesting game on our hands.

Most definitely! I feel like it needs more, but it's a work in progress, maybe the addition, it has the rugged area and a slick area of the field, and the parts where you drop the items off, should be raised, so your robot had to get up a ramp, and change that one rule, and add an additional part to the robot, and if you press one of 12 buttons on the controller it would shine a colored light into the bot, and the bot would disable for a couple secs, so offensive bots could actually get the items out, it might help avoid the crash issue.

[logicalyrandom]

Most definitely! I feel like it needs more, but it's a work in progress, maybe the addition, it has the rugged area and a slick area of the field, and the parts where you drop the items off, should be raised, so your robot had to get up a ramp, and change that one rule, and add an additional part to the robot, and if you press one of 12 buttons on the controller it would shine a colored light into the bot, and the bot would disable for a couple secs, so offensive bots could actually get the items out, it might help avoid the crash issue.

so lets summarize what we have so far: A combination of capture the flag, with ramps and slick areas 'protecting' the game pieces, robots can use a laser tag like system to disable other robots temporally, and the for bonus points, you have to stack game pieces in your opponents base. What does CD think: best game ever?

[ExarKun666]

so lets summarize what we have so far: A combination of capture the flag, with ramps and slick areas 'protecting' the game pieces, robots can use a laser tag like system to disable other robots temporally, and the for bonus points, you have to stack game pieces in your opponents base. What does CD think: best game ever?

I personally like this game. Even though this might not be it, it sure is a suggestion for a future game.

[Geek_Girl]

Ok, so far I have:

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
ZAMBONI SHOP
SLIPPERY SURFACE
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
MICROSOFT OR FAIR TRADE INTERNET CAFE
-robot connects to internet to communicate w/ something on field AND/OR
-microsoft WINDOWS on the field AND/OR
-something must be TRADED
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
GOIN' POSTAL SHIPPING SERVICE
PACKAGES
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.
CRATER STADIUM FOOTBALL FIELD
-game piece is a football AND/OR
-craters on the field

Where does the fish fit in?
-football shaped
-slippery
-"deeply forked" (craters?)
-commonly given as a gift (gift => package => shipping)


All seems to fit - what do you guys think?

[ExarKun666]

I think that summarization is good, so far, I think we need to figure out is the playing field outlay, and gameplay, based on the 2 hints that we have, cause I think we have figured out both hints, as much as we can.

[logicalyrandom]

I personally like this game. Even though this might not be it, it sure is a suggestion for a future game.

Anyone here know Dean's e-mail?

[ExarKun666]

Based off me original idea
-stack objects, carry over to raised area
-field is a mix of rugged and slick terrain
-can defend items
-bots can laser the camera to disable bots for a few secs to get the objects out of the scoring area
-MAKES AWSOME GAME

[ExarKun666]

Anyone here know Dean's e-mail?

is it on his site maybe?

[ExarKun666]

Anyone here know Dean's e-mail?

got it: contactDEKA@dekaresearch.com

[R.C.]

I still stand on my original theory of doom.

-34 degree ramps
-4 different color objects
-multiple ramps
-King of the Kill but with objects
-Camera only used in teleop.
-I don't think robots will communicate just yet, more like drivers communicate to create a strategy.
-Not every robot is going to have a manipulator, so all robots talking will be kinda hard.
-same game piece, just different colors
-human player returns
-all the pieces are in the center and you have to score on the oppo side
-SLIPPERY FLOOR = MORE TRACTION
-two side moon thing:
one side is slippery the other is not

I have read all the posts up till now on both threads and I have to say that FIRST is awesome, these are the fastest growing threads ever!

[ExarKun666]

I still stand on my original theory of doom.

-34 degree ramps
-4 different color objects
-multiple ramps
-King of the Kill but with objects
-Camera only used in teleop.
-I don't think robots will communicate just yet, more like drivers communicate to create a strategy.
-Not every robot is going to have a manipulator, so all robots talking will be kinda hard.
-same game piece, just different colors
-human player returns
-all the pieces are in the center and you have to score on the oppo side
-SLIPPERY FLOOR = MORE TRACTION
-two side moon thing:
one side is slippery the other is not

I have read all the posts up till now on both threads and I have to say that FIRST is awesome, these are the fastest growing threads ever!

Well I think there are some problems with that, 1st camera only in teleop would not use it to it's full capacity, and I highly believe it will be used in autonomous, with the new control system bots can communicate to each other, and I think that should be a game element, even if it's new, game piece not sure, but they will be different in some form.

[R.C.]

Well I think there are some problems with that, 1st camera only in teleop would not use it to it's full capacity, and I highly believe it will be used in autonomous, with the new control system bots can communicate to each other, and I think that should be a game element, even if it's new, game piece not sure, but they will be different in some form.

Sorry i so meant auto. Man finals suck!

[SammyKay]

I attempted to read most of the responses, but since I have school tomorrow morning, I couldn't read them all. If I give an idea that has already been addressed or discussed, could somebody please tell me the answer or show me where I can find it? Sorry for all the people that put in the time and effort into presenting the idea and figuring out if it's a good one.

I think that since some of the cities create a triangle it might be possible that the field might change to be a triangle shape and maybe we have 3 alliance teams. Still 3 teams on each alliance, but maybe this way they can get more teams on the field and have possibly better rankings.

[ExarKun666]

I attempted to read most of the responses, but since I have school tomorrow morning, I couldn't read them all. If I give an idea that has already been addressed or discussed, could somebody please tell me the answer or show me where I can find it? Sorry for all the people that put in the time and effort into presenting the idea and figuring out if it's a good one.

I think that since some of the cities create a triangle it might be possible that the field might change to be a triangle shape and maybe we have 3 alliance teams. Still 3 teams on each alliance, but maybe this way they can get more teams on the field and have possibly better rankings.

the triangle shape is probably going to end up being ramps, which I think, will end up being in the competition.

[JaneYoung]

Anyone here know Dean's e-mail?

You may know this already but just in case :) ...
There is a forum here in ChiefDelphi that is called FRC Game Design.
Each year after the official season comes to a close, Dave usually starts a new thread for the 'next' season like this (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148) one. (I say it that way because I think the GDC is way out there but, of course, I'm clueless.) If you guys think suggestions made in the hint threads are good, make a mental note to suggest them in the thread that is created after the 2009 season. That way, the ideas are sure to be viewed and not lost here in this thread - which will, by that time, be old news - very old news. Hard to believe, I know.

[ExarKun666]

Anyone know if autonomous will be hybrid again, anything announced about it? Of not announced, do the hints point to it being hybrid again?

If it is hybrid, might give some ideas to the game, perhaps.

[EricH]

Anyone know if autonomous will be hybrid again, anything announced about it? Of not announced, do the hints point to it being hybrid again?

If it is hybrid, might give some ideas to the game, perhaps.
Not announced yet. 22 days or so, I think, before we know.

[synth3tk]

Anyone know if autonomous will be hybrid again, anything announced about it? Of not announced, do the hints point to it being hybrid again?

If it is hybrid, might give some ideas to the game, perhaps.
We probably wouldn't know this early, even if the hints point to it.

[ExarKun666]

I honestly don't think that this hint adds that much more to the 1st hint, and everything that it did add, we have already said. I'm ready for a third hint!

[dtengineering]

Anyone know if autonomous will be hybrid again, anything announced about it? Of not announced, do the hints point to it being hybrid again?

If it is hybrid, might give some ideas to the game, perhaps.

While we don't know yet, consider that we do have a new control system that has the capability to transmit video back to the driver station. I suspect a fair bit of R&D went in to the camera capabilities, and I would be surprised if it wasn't used in some way.

The reasoning behind the switch from autonomous to hybrid was that hybrid better simulated several types of robotic mission, particularly in space exploration where there is limited bandwidth and a significant time delay between signal transmission and reception. Likewise there are many robotic missions that need to be controlled using video.

Perhaps we will see curtains over the driver station, blocking the view of the field during "autonomous".... or perhaps the robots will start in full telop mode and the curtains will fall at the end of the match, requiring drivers to use the on-board cameras to complete one final task.

So no, we don't know... and honestly, after six years of reading these clues, I have to say that even if we DO figure out what the clues mean we won't know we've figured it out until the game is announced... but we do know that we have a new control system, and I'm willing to bet that the GDC is planning to use it to do something exciting that we could not do with the old one.


Jason

[ExarKun666]

Perhaps we will see curtains over the driver station, blocking the view of the field during "autonomous".... or perhaps the robots will start in full telop mode and the curtains will fall at the end of the match, requiring drivers to use the on-board cameras to complete one final task.

Yeah, someone mentioned curtains earlier, and I thought that would be a very cool addition, but some did say earlier also, that they had beta tested this, and they lagged while having the laptop viewing thought the camera, and controlling the bot, so it might not happen unless they fixed that lag, which would be a cool competition, blindfolded, pretty much, and can only rely on the camera.