View Full Version : 2009 decryption test
First has released the encryption test at http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=11570. This is probably a hint that the manual is coming.
I posted before trying it and I found 2 interesting things.
1. Only the mirror worked.
2. Only the fish is listed as a game hint.
sayso_411
28-12-2008, 23:04
True...it didnt go as the FIRST site said it would...
Browzilla
29-12-2008, 00:23
Incidentally, FIRST claims it won't work with Mac's Preview; that's not the case (at least with OS X v10.5.5)
Also, yeah. Only the mirror worked.
Greg Peshek
29-12-2008, 01:55
Um is it just me or do the motors on the flowchart in picture 1536 not look like CIMs. Yes they're black, but it looks like the leads are coming out of the sides, as well as a different face plate. Not sure, maybe it's just me.
Um is it just me or do the motors on the flowchart in picture 1536 not look like CIMs. Yes they're black, but it looks like the leads are coming out of the sides, as well as a different face plate. Not sure, maybe it's just me.
This has been covered in the thread that was created when that chart was first released.
The consensus was that motor is the first thing that looks like it could be used on a FRC robot when you look for DC motors in google images.
jtdowney
29-12-2008, 06:11
Incidentally, FIRST claims it won't work with Mac's Preview; that's not the case (at least with OS X v10.5.5)
Also, yeah. Only the mirror worked.
I am using 10.5.6 and was able to view the test file in Preview just fine as well. I downloaded Adobe Reader anyway just in case.
JohnBoucher
29-12-2008, 10:09
cool. here is also a KOP preview on the most interesting looking parts.
Other than these photo's the rest look pretty much standard from previous years.
Where did you find this? I must not have enough coffee in me yet, because I can't find it on the FIRST site.
I believe he is talking about the diagram that came with the early shipment of the control system, seen at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/32057 and http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/32056.
JohnBoucher
29-12-2008, 10:25
I believe he is talking about the diagram that came with the early shipment of the control system, seen at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/32057 and http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/32056.
But not the other parts
So i just did the math..... If we knew the password was 15 characters long, there are 768909704948766668552634368 possible combinations (assuming no special characters or spaces)
Using a brute force attack at an average rate of 7717 combinations/second this would take
99638422307731847680787 Seconds
1660640371795530794679 Minutes
27677339529925513244 Hours
1153222480413563051 Days
3168193627509788 Years
316819362750978 Decades ..... You get the point
So assuming my 1.6 x2 Ghz laptop can do 7717 combinations/second
to do it in 1 Day (24 hours) we would need
360382025129238453 Ghz of processing power. Or 112619382852887016 Newer computers
Seems fairly encrypted to me.
Where did you find this? I must not have enough coffee in me yet, because I can't find it on the FIRST site.
FIRST still hasn't figured out how to not put pictures of the KOP on links that are viewable by all.
And that's if its 15 characters. It could be allot more.
EricVicenti
29-12-2008, 14:40
What was the passcode last year? It was some variation of 'drive straight, turn left', right?
FIRST still hasn't figured out how to not put pictures of the KOP on links that are viewable by all.
Hunh?
nathanww
29-12-2008, 15:02
What was the passcode last year? It was some variation of 'drive straight, turn left', right?
Yeah, it was a string of words like that. BTW, does anyone know if the previous years were like that as well? If they were, I might have a go at the manual with a dictionary attack
Yeah, it was a string of words like that. BTW, does anyone know if the previous years were like that as well? If they were, I might have a go at the manual with a dictionary attack
A. No, it hasn't always been a string of words
B. It's probably best to keep your decryption plans to yourself as people on these forums are liable to jump on you for it :P --something about it not being in the spirit of FIRST
Joe Ross
29-12-2008, 15:19
Yeah, it was a string of words like that. BTW, does anyone know if the previous years were like that as well? If they were, I might have a go at the manual with a dictionary attack
2008: Drive!Straight?turn!LEFT!?
2007: 7sBg8H4x2f3R9C3tm5
2006: S1x240JrTBmsqf95DL06FdsTM33H
2005: 3XTr1pl3play2oo5
2004: FEma2X5E10vEir
Have fun finding any of those in a dictionary, or someone's rainbow tables. As Bochek said, it's also not able to be brute forced.
Just like the game hints, FIRST knows they are dealing with 40,000 high school students. With the encryption key, the give just enough so that some people think they can figure it out, but in reality, there isn't any chance, just like the game hint.
Hunh?
They've had problems in the past with people finding things on their website that aren't password protected, I'd imagine that's where these came from.
Some year I predict the password will be something simple like "HaHa".
Bochek, how would having 40,000 students on their own computers doing parts of the total change your calculations on solving the password? Personally, it would be the exercise of how to solve the puzzle and not the actual answer that would be more enjoyable, and in the spirit of FIRST.
EricVanWyk
29-12-2008, 16:21
Personally, it would be the exercise of how to solve the puzzle and not the actual answer that would be more enjoyable, and in the spirit of FIRST.
I like that idea. My first college internship was in cryptography - that field is by definition full of fun and intriguing puzzles.
Some year I predict the password will be something simple like "HaHa".
Bochek, how would having 40,000 students on their own computers doing parts of the total change your calculations on solving the password? Personally, it would be the exercise of how to solve the puzzle and not the actual answer that would be more enjoyable, and in the spirit of FIRST.
Assuming it was exactly 15 characters. It would take
79204840687 years for 40,000 average level computers to brute force the password.
Only 79,204,840,687 years? Guess we better get started then....:) By the time we solve it we'd have forgotten what the game was to begin with!
DonRotolo
29-12-2008, 20:15
I couldn't open the last four images, but in one of the images we have a nice optical encoder type E4P-300-157 (datasheet (http://www.faulhaber-group.com/uploadpk/E4P_ENCODER_MD.pdf)) and in another what appears to be a 22 tooth sprocket with fancy holes in it...
Can someone describe the last four images, or explain why I can't see them?
I couldn't open the last four images, but in one of the images we have a nice optical encoder type E4P-300-157 (datasheet (http://www.faulhaber-group.com/uploadpk/E4P_ENCODER_MD.pdf)) and in another what appears to be a 22 tooth sprocket with fancy holes in it...
Can someone describe the last four images, or explain why I can't see them?
I couldn't open the last four either. Is there anyone who opened these?
Are these the last four you couldn't open?
Am I the only one who thinks the first image looks like a set of frame rails?
sayso_411
29-12-2008, 22:40
Are these the last four you couldn't open?
i dont know...i couldnt open the last four either :(
Am I the only one who thinks the first image looks like a set of frame rails?Looks a bit more like linear drawer sliders to me.
Looks a bit more like linear drawer sliders to me.
I thought that too, but why would FIRST give us different sizes/hole patterns?
Ice Berg
29-12-2008, 23:05
It looks to me like this will be the new kit chassis. Because FIRST split with IFI, and IFI made the old kit chassis, there is bound to be a new one this year or next. Andymark.biz currently has no products listed as C-base but i would guess that it is the name of the new kit chassis and will be up there after kickoff. C-base == chassis-base?
Jessica Boucher
29-12-2008, 23:37
Ok ladies & gents, back on topic. I'm glad everyone is taking the chance to make sure they will hit the ground running with the manual on Saturday!
They've had problems in the past with people finding things on their website that aren't password protected, I'd imagine that's where these came from.
Yeah. That's where they came from.
Yeah. That's where they came from. I'd post the link, but they might fix it then. Besides the pictures were only there for about a day or two, and i downloaded these before they were removed.
I had trouble viewing some when i downloaded them, but when they were downloaded i could view them in xp. Now when i try i can't see the last four images either. Sorry. If i can find an uncorrupted copy i'll repost them.
You won't repost them. Obviously, you believe these photos contain information that you're not yet meant to see or you wouldn't express concern about them "fixing it," and so it's best if you think twice before posting information like this again.
rberidon
30-12-2008, 01:32
You won't repost them. Obviously, you believe these photos contain information that you're not yet meant to see or you wouldn't express concern about them "fixing it," and so it's best if you think twice before posting information like this again.
There's something about this post that bothers me. It's either lacking in G or P, it's hard to say which.
Vikesrock
30-12-2008, 01:42
There's something about this post that bothers me. It's either lacking in G or P, it's hard to say which.
The post Madison quoted was about photos which he found on the FIRST snooping around the FIRST site. If these pictures were meant to be found the poster would not have been worried about FIRST fixing it. By not wanting the FIRST site fixed it would appear the poster is hoping to continue to take advantage of the flaw and gain access to information before the rest of us.
Does that seem GP to you?
As a moderator of this forum it's Madison's "job" to address issues like this. I don't see how her post is lacking G or P.
rberidon
30-12-2008, 02:06
The post Madison quoted was about photos which he found on the FIRST snooping around the FIRST site. If these pictures were meant to be found the poster would not have been worried about FIRST fixing it. By not wanting the FIRST site fixed it would appear the poster is hoping to continue to take advantage of the flaw and gain access to information before the rest of us.
Does that seem GP to you?
As a moderator of this forum it's Madison's "job" to address issues like this. I don't see how her post is lacking G or P.
I thought that her post was rather strongly worded. I was referring specifically to how she said it, not the issue itself.
She is right. It was rather un GP of me. Here is the link so FIRST can fix it.
http://www2.usfirst.org/2009comp/
sorry about it. I get exited and get carried away sometimes. No hard feelings i hope?
She is right. It was rather un GP of me. Here is the link so FIRST can fix it.
http://www2.usfirst.org/2009comp/
sorry about it. I get exited and get carried away sometimes. No hard feelings i hope?
You don't have to be so apologetic, there is (in my opinion) some merit in the discussion on whether or not you should post those pictures.
Having the CD-Consensus-Machine steamroll all over that discussion doesn't automatically mean you were so wrong you should start apologizing.
Let's try and be a bit more open folks.. you know.. democracy and what not... :rolleyes:
-Leav
p.s.
Written from Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex :)
artdutra04
30-12-2008, 03:03
She is right. It was rather un GP of me. Here is the link so FIRST can fix it.
http://www2.usfirst.org/2009comp/If that link was the source of all the confrontation in this thread, then wow. Just wow.
Seriously, people. Take a step back from your keyboard.
Step outside,
breathe in fresh air,
go skiing or snowboarding,
or do something not about FIRST for the next few days.
So you found the FIRST Mirror server. With the encrypted game manual. And a few screen shots from past scoring software.
There's nothing there that could possibly give you an advantage.
So what if a few weeks ago there was a few images that might be of the KoP. The keyword there is might. What's to say those aren't purposely fake photos given that FIRST might know people will try to search through the document tree in the days before Kickoff.
And even if you did find a photo of a sprocket. Who cares? What advantage does a photo of a sprocket give you?
Seriously, this thread makes it seem like such a huge leak occurred, but in reality there's nothing much there.
BTW, FIRST, you can prevent this in the future. Since it looks like you are running an Apache server, use a .htaccess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.htaccess) file to block viewing of the document tree. Put this file in the root directory on your FTP server. By doing this, the settings get inherited to all sub directories, so every sub-directory past, present, and future will automagically be protected from viewing available files in a directory, while all content files will still be 100% accessible if you know the exact URL (such as from a hyperlink on usfirst.org or an Email Blast).
If FIRST HQ is dumb/lazy/incompetent enough to continually leave information related to the game/KOP/etc on a public webpage, then they probably deserve for it to be found and posted on CD.
Just my $0.02.
Doug Adams
30-12-2008, 09:18
So what if a few weeks ago there was a few images that might be of the KoP. The keyword there is might. What's to say those aren't purposely fake photos given that FIRST might know people will try to search through the document tree in the days before Kickoff.
And even if you did find a photo of a sprocket. Who cares? What advantage does a photo of a sprocket give you?
I agree. We don't know what FIRST is up to. If someone finds something and posts it to CD isn't that negating any advantage they might gain? Even if it turns out to be real and possibly significant, is a team willing to bet their training time and team budget on that information?
Rumors are great for thought exercises, but I'm not committing to a design until after I see the volunteers pushing plywood robots on the kickoff stage and I understand the official game.
Nate Smith
30-12-2008, 10:41
FWTW, it appears that FIRST has at least fixed the photos issue...
I thought that her post was rather strongly worded. I was referring specifically to how she said it, not the issue itself.
You'll find that many of my posts are strongly worded.
Keen -- no hard feelings at all. While what you've stumbled across may not contain any significantly valuable information now, there's no assurance that it won't in the future.
It appears as if FIRST has taken steps to correct their oversight. Each year, they get better at understanding how to protect their information, but they're not perfect yet. When we run across things like this -- things we're reasonably sure we're not yet supposed to see -- we can help them to make things better by giving them a head's up.
We all know that teams have different resources, budgets, facilities and skillsets, so I think that our expectation that we all start on equal ground when it comes to strategy development and design is one of FRC's greatest assets. I'm just trying to keep the dream alive, y'all. :)
Daniel885
09-01-2009, 13:28
And that's if its 15 characters. It could be allot more.
Didn't you do some more math concerning that, Forest?
care to give us some mroe figures?
If FIRST HQ is dumb/lazy/incompetent enough to continually leave information related to the game/KOP/etc on a public webpage, then they probably deserve for it to be found and posted on CD.
Just my $0.02.
You aren't very fun at parties are you?
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