View Full Version : A reminder before the big day
As seen in this sticky (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23727) from the Rules/Strategy forum, people have an annoying tendency to not read the game manual.
Folks, I want to point out that the Game Manual is important. It has the field diagrams, the game rules, the robot rules, and the tournament structure. Yet every year, I come on after Kickoff and there are hundreds of questions about the game, the robot, the tournament, what can we use on the robot, can we do xyz action, and the like. 99% of the time, the answers are in one place: the Game Manual.
[I]Read the Manual before posting your question. 99% of the time, the rules will be crystal clear. The other 1% of the time, everyone else has the same question. So you might want to search before posting your question. Chances are somebody has asked and answered it already
I remember last year that someone was confused over a very clear rule. Somebody had said something at Kickoff that was--while not in conflict with the manual--interpreted the wrong way. This is a perfectly reasonable time to ask a question. However, simply saying something to the effect of, "What is the maximum size of the robot?" or "Can we use CO2?" will almost always get you a very annoyed-"sounding" "Read the Manual!!!!" from everyone around you.
What I'm trying to say is, hold off on posting rules questions until you have actually read the manual and checked for any other questions on that topic here. (Hint: when looking for an answer in the Manual, use <Ctrl-F> to look for a particular word or phrase that will help you.)
Alex Dinsmoor
02-01-2009, 17:31
Great post! Somebody should sticky this as it applies to every years game.
Vikesrock
02-01-2009, 17:35
Thanks for posting this Eric.
I would like to add that not being able to get the manual off the FIRST site is not really an excuse.
Every year after kickoff the FIRST site becomes bogged down as thousands of people rush to download the manual. I recommend that everyone grab the encrypted copy of the manual off the FIRST website (http://usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=452) tonight and use the password given during the kickoff to decrypt it (write the password down!). You can replace the encrypted copy with a new decrypted copy tomorrow night or Sunday as the traffic starts to die down.
Agreed, agreed, agreed. A thousand times over. I'm in the process of printing out the sections I can access, so they're in the team binder before kickoff, just for organization's sake.
What we like to do is, right after kickoff, come back and read through the robot and game sections, as a team. That way, we know what we can and can't put on our designs as we start that phase of the process. Also, it avoids the situation where one person (guess who?) knows the manual inside out, and nobody else has read it. If you go through the parts that are most questioned (The Robot and The Game) as a team, nobody has an excuse to ask questions that are clearly defined therein.
GaryVoshol
02-01-2009, 18:10
Thanks for posting this Eric.I add my thanks to Eric. A bit self-serving of he and I though, as for a while last year we were answering most of the "read Rule <R##>" type of questions.
(write the password down!)Better yet, take a picture of the screen with your camera and you can read it later.
One major point also needs to be made -
ALL answers provided, commented on, or discussed on CD are UNOFFICIAL.
We love that everyone in the FIRST community migrates to our website to share thoughts and ideas, BUT ...
ONLY FIRST can provide the OFFICIAL answers.
It's okay to refer the posters to the appropriate answer - if that answer is derived from the official response, but if you do that, please include the official response number too.
Otherwise, it's just another opinion and that may only create more confusion.
So, in closing...
Have fun and ask all the questions you want to, but just remember that the answers are NOT official unless they come from FIRST.
Mike Aubry
Team 47
Tetraman
02-01-2009, 18:15
Forget making a sticky, these should be big bold words on the CD forum home page.
Another thought,
With the FIRST website being bogged down after kickoff, does it become difficult to download the game animation? If so, could someone post the video on youtube, for teams to watch with out having to wait for it to download off FIRST's site.
GaryVoshol
02-01-2009, 18:20
Another thought,
With the FIRST website being bogged down after kickoff, does it become difficult to download the game animation?
Yes
If so, could someone post the video on youtube, for teams to watch with out having to wait for it to download off FIRST's site.No - the videos are copywrite protected.
Tetraman
02-01-2009, 18:31
No - the videos are copywrite protected.
really?
wilsonmw04
02-01-2009, 18:33
While I agree with your comments, let me add one thing. Take a look at the upper right corner of the offending post before saying, "dude, read the manual!" or "search before posting, man!" If they are new, welcome them to our little community and POLITELY point them to where they can find the answers they are looking for. Remember, your post maybe someone's first impression of the CD community specifically and the larger FIRST community in general.
Alex Dinsmoor
02-01-2009, 18:37
While I agree with your comments, let me add one thing. Take a look at the upper right corner of the offending post before saying, "dude, read the manual!" or "search before posting, man!" If they are new, welcome them to our little community and POLITELY point them to where they can find the answers they are looking for. Remember, your post maybe someone's first impression of the CD community specifically and the larger FIRST community in general.
Very true, good first impressions are a MUST in a forum. People are easily turned off when someone flames them in their first post.
I think that FIRST will put the video on youtube them selves since they have a FIRST youtube account.
While I agree with your comments, let me add one thing. Take a look at the upper right corner of the offending post before saying, "dude, read the manual!" or "search before posting, man!" If they are new, welcome them to our little community and POLITELY point them to where they can find the answers they are looking for. Remember, your post maybe someone's first impression of the CD community specifically and the larger FIRST community in general.
Yes first impressions are important, but this also gives you a chance to say it in your own way. The game manual is sometimes worded strange or leaves gray areas. Its also a good idea to check the first updates. There are usually a few updates each year to clear up some of that gray area.
Finally, reading the game manual will save time and lead to more creativity in the end.
No - the videos are copywrite protected.
Don't Forget that hosting copies of the manual encrypted or not are also copyrighted. So please don't host copies of the manual either. Either wait for the downloads or download now and de-encrypt the files tomorrow with the password.
-Mike AA
Cow Bell Solo
02-01-2009, 19:27
I would also like to add to the comment of getting all the sections of the manual tonight and then get the undecrypted copy after the main rush of tomorrow. I would add, check the FIRST website weekly for when they release the manual updates as they will add information that had previous questions about, or change some of the rules. This can become crucial information in your design of your robot and strategy.
Lets just say I printed off the available sections once they were released on the website. And being last year as being one of the two people on the team that read the manual and everyone said lets do this, lets do that, or can we do this, can we do that, and It got tireing after a while since we always were having to correct them because they didn't read the manual and know the rules, and eventually people starting to just plain ask us. I would tell them well it is in the manual, look in this section, it says it there, but they would only look for what they were wanting and not the rest of the manual. So I also heavely suggest that you get the entire team to read the manual to save those that read the manual lots of frustration.
cbudrecki
02-01-2009, 19:35
really?
you may want to read this thread... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60713)
Another reminder that I feel should be on the Portal page: DONT' START A NEW THREAD!!! There will be one started titled something along the lines of "2009 Game name here discussion/rules/etc..." Find that thread, and post all questions to it, it'll probably right at the top of the portal list.
One major point also needs to be made -
ALL answers provided, commented on, or discussed on CD are UNOFFICIAL.
This should definitely be kept in mind. If it isn't quoted from the FRC Manual, or the FRC forums (please use "[QUOTE]" tags!!!) than it should only be taken as speculation and NOT FACT!!!
Tetraman
02-01-2009, 19:43
you may want to read this thread... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60713)
Thanks for the link. I will remember not to add the game animation to my YT channel this year.
wilsonmw04
02-01-2009, 20:03
Thanks for the link. I will remember not to add the game animation to my YT channel this year.
the important post was this one:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=685373&postcount=32
you can use it on your website, just give props to Dave (or whoever does it this year)
Yes
No - the videos are copywrite protected.
Since when does copyright matter on youtube
wilsonmw04
02-01-2009, 20:33
Since when does copyright matter on youtube
Copyright matters no matter where it's posted. If an item has a copyright, having it posted on youtube doesn't void the owners copyright. You are voicing a large misconception of the "web 2.0" generation.
DonRotolo
02-01-2009, 20:51
I think he was expressing sarcasm.
Now if we could get all the newer folks to just read this thread...
sigh.
.
Copyright matters no matter where it's posted. If an item has a copyright, having it posted on youtube doesn't void the owners copyright. You are voicing a large misconception of the "web 2.0" generation.
I wonder if the rightful copyright owner(s) could be persuaded to post it on YouTube themselves. It would certainly aid in distribution, as I remember the official download being very slow, even in the off-season.
wilsonmw04
02-01-2009, 20:57
I think he was expressing sarcasm.
Now if we could get all the newer folks to just read this thread...
sigh.
.
DOH!! I should have looked for the "mentor" tag. It's so darned hard to read tone on the web...
ahhh man! time has gone by so fast since last season. Im so excited I'll need a towel. So I heard a rumor that there has been a breach at FIRST and some teams have the new game. Thats a shame; my son came home and told me and i didnt have the patience to let him be so idiotic so i hit him in the back of the head. :yikes:......... so does anyone know what the game really is? k cya everyone, thnx a bunch, from your secret lover stalkerman69.
Something tells me you're not a parent and not from Team 2669 in Israel...
Please stop.
ATannahill
02-01-2009, 21:23
As an observation 4 teams were recently dropped of the list of participating teams, I do not know what that indicates.
wilsonmw04
02-01-2009, 21:30
As an observation 4 teams were recently dropped of the list of participating teams, I do not know what that indicates.
Let's get this tread back on track. Gossip and speculation won't make the situation any better.
cbudrecki
02-01-2009, 22:43
If you want to link to the video, or embed it to your team's site, get it from FIRST. They DO have THEIR OWN YouTube page!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/user/FIRSTWorldTube):]
(why do I get the feeling this is going to need to be re-posted over the next 6 weeks???):confused:
Great post! Somebody should sticky this as it applies to every years game.Perhaps it could become part of a (somewhat annoying, but not terribly so) pop-up that appears before you are allowed to start entering/editing each new post in the appropriate forums?
Forget making a sticky, these should be big bold words on the CD forum home page.Perhaps it could become part of a (somewhat annoying, but not terribly so) pop-up that appears before you are allowed to start entering/editing each new post in the appropriate forums?
While I agree with your comments, let me add one thing. Take a look at the upper right corner of the offending post before saying, "dude, read the manual!" or "search before posting, man!" If they are new, welcome them to our little community and POLITELY point them to where they can find the answers they are looking for. Remember, your post maybe someone's first impression of the CD community specifically and the larger FIRST community in general.Time for a little soapboxing (I think that wilsonmw04 and I agree about this.) Let's be clear. There is no harm in politely pointing someone toward the manual, the Q&A, or existing threads. Let's not chatise folks simply for doing that (i.e. for writing "You can find that information in Section X of game manual - Download it from the FRC pages of the FIRST web site and come back to ask questions if you don't understand some specific part of it.")
Politely telling someone the answer is in the manual, or suggesting that they use Search to get information that is easily obtained by investing their own time, is not a "flame". It is reminding them of what they have been told by just about every single teacher or mentor they ever had.
I feel it is far, far more of a valuable lesson than a flame. The lesson is that when you approach (in age and activities) assuming "professional" responsibilities, and begin participating in the associated attractive and rewarding activities, you have to start acting like a professional.
Some folks might disagree.
... Another reminder that I feel should be on the Portal page: DONT' START A NEW THREAD!!! There will be one started titled something along the lines of "2009 Game name here discussion/rules/etc..." Find that thread, and post all questions to it, it'll probably right at the top of the portal list. ... Perhaps it could become part of a (somewhat annoying, but not terribly so) pop-up that appears before you are allowed to start entering/editing each new post in the appropriate forums?
Blake
cbudrecki
02-01-2009, 23:09
Perhaps it could become part of a (somewhat annoying, but not terribly so) pop-up that appears before you are allowed to start entering/editing each new post in the appropriate forums?
I like where you're going... Make it so that when you log in, it brings you to a page of "friendly reminders" about posting etiquette.
I may sound retarded for asking.. but how do I get the encypted pdf off the site? I have it up on my screen right now where it asks for the password and stuff... but when I try and save it to my computer (because the kickoff will not have internet access) it only saves the first 4 pages and not the encrypted stuff (thus I am unable to enter passwords)
ATannahill
02-01-2009, 23:28
What I would like is another button next to post reply that pretty much takes you to the reply screen but alread has in the box "The answer is in section X, please read it."
ATannahill
02-01-2009, 23:29
I may sound retarded for asking.. but how do I get the encypted pdf off the site? I have it up on my screen right now where it asks for the password and stuff... but when I try and save it to my computer (because the kickoff will not have internet access) it only saves the first 4 pages and not the encrypted stuff (thus I am unable to enter passwords)
Right click and click save as, chose where you want it saved and click okay.
p.s. sorry for the double post but he posted while I was typing.
I sloved it (not by using your method lol... I'm not that stupid) I realized that I have to save a bunch of different files. it is not all one giant pdf like I thought it was
Vikesrock
02-01-2009, 23:36
I sloved it (not by using your method lol... I'm not that stupid) I realized that I have to save a bunch of different files. it is not all one giant pdf like I thought it was
There is a link that has it all as one PDF. It is the one that says "Complete 2009 FRC Manual ". If you use the Right-click ->Save as method it will save the whole document.
Direct Link:
http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/2009_FRC_Manual_Package.pdf
I used that but if you just save from there it only saves the section your on.. I just highlighted them all and save... i didn't realize I had to save the sections seperatly.. that's all. I got it now though thanks
GaryVoshol
03-01-2009, 06:35
Saving sections separately is probably best anyway. That way when one is updated, you don't have to download the whole manual.
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