View Full Version : Choosing Drivers
How do your teams choose who is going to be a driver?
My team thought of a "video game tournament" would be the best way of doing this. We are playing driving games like MarioKart, and Need for Speed. Apparently who ever is the best at playing video games will be the best at driving the robot, at least that is the theory.
I was wondering what you think of this idea, and if it will produce accurate results. I think there are many many many more factors involved. For instance I want the participants to all stand up, wear scratched up saftey glasses and listen to extremely loud music while playing.
So, what do you think? Will the best video gamer be the best driver?
I doubt it. It's possible, yes, but there are a number of other factors.
In the racing games, can you race with a trailer? No? Well, then, that's a factor you have to take into account.
Your suggestion is pretty good. They should also play standing up with someone behind them telling them what to do. And if possible, leave the controller alone during the countdown to the start.
Or, better yet--as soon as you get a running robot that can tow a trailer, wear down its batteries as fast as you can by having the drivers train on it. That's the main thing here--the racing games are all on asphalt/concrete, and we're driving on a much slicker surface.
Also, if you have anyone who races R/C cars, they'll probably make a pretty good driver.
MrForbes
25-01-2009, 11:27
Also, if you have anyone who races R/C cars, they'll probably make a pretty good driver.
....especially if you give them an RC car controller (with the radio removed, and the control potentiometers connected to the DS)
nahstobor
25-01-2009, 11:39
I think video games can help, but doesn't do FIRST robotics driving justice for choosing a driver. The best robot drivers make the best robot drivers, some just may happen to have great racing game skills.
As far as when I am picking a driver for my team the first thing that I look at is the persons sports background. From what I have found drivers with a background in sports turn out to be better drivers because they understand the meaning of pressure situations. Also as far as communication aspects between myself and my drivers they don't forget about the fact that they are playing a timed game and don't attempt to question decisions that are made during the game.
There are many things you can look at for the driver but the most important thing is getting someone to practice. The driver is the most important position on the team, you could have the best robot out on the field but it is useless if you don't have a good driver. My advice is who ever has interest right now give them a robot to drive, set up some cones in an open space and get use to the controls of the robot.
1114 has posted a great list of requirements for a driver (http://www.simbotics.org/files/first-robotics-canada/workshop-presentations/runteam.pdf) on their website. 612 uses something a little bit similar but I agree with many things that they go through when they pick their drivers, so far it has seemed to work.
First thing we do is give them a written test to make sure they thoroughly understand the rules.Then we do the driving skill test to see how they handle the robot and finally we do an interview with the coaches and leadership team to see if they have the aptitude to properly represent our team on the field of play because we want someone who conducts themselves with integrity as well as having driving talent.
gorrilla
25-01-2009, 11:45
we just, whoever wants to do it raises their hands, and we drive around the old robots to see who would be driver,co-driver,and human player
smurfgirl
25-01-2009, 12:16
Here's an old thread about choosing drivers, with some valid information and discussion: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66161
Here (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=723050&postcount=11) is the first post in that thread I wrote explaining what our team takes into consideration for driver selection. (When I saw this thread, I remembered writing a long list about driver selection, so I knew there had to be an old thread floating around somewhere.) Good luck!
jamie_1930
25-01-2009, 12:32
Last year we waited until our chasis was done and then we took it into the school library, because it was the largest carpet we could find, and set up some tape lines. Whoever performed the best would be the driver. Our mentor would tell us what directions to go and would time laps, and just like Koko Ed said we were to read the game rules and took a written test before.
thefro526
25-01-2009, 13:08
Choosing a Driver isn't as easy as most think. First we find who is interested and then see how many of those interested are dedicated members. From there we test skill, game knowledge, and also we see how much experience they have.
One of the biggest things to remember is that Driving is not entirely about skill. It's about teamwork, so you may find a kid who's a complete ringer behind the sticks but if he can't work with his co-driver, HP and Coach then why have him on the field. Also it's good to look into who would be the best Drive Team rather than who will be the best Driver, Operator and HP.
Also, your Driver/Drive Team is who people see on the field. They're attitudes and actions tend to represent the whole team in a lot of cases. So if they walk out to the field with a bad attitude looking as if they just woke up that may not make your team look well or another team may remember that during alliance selections.
862 drivers are selected by a 5 mentor panel who looks at several criteria, the first of which is a written test on the game rules & strategy. Next is a practical driving test (if the robot is done in time), we also look at meeting attendance, behavior at meetings, and interactions with the other potential drivers. We also select an alternate set of drivers just in case.
Copies of several years worth of Driver & Human Player written tests can be found in our Document Repository (http://lightningrobotics.com/files/?path=/Documents/Build%20Season/Tests&result=File%20Renamed&f=2009%20Driver%20Test.doc)
IBdrummer
25-01-2009, 13:35
Being good at video games is a great skill to have if you're interested in being a driver in FRC, but I don't think it could test enough factors to be the best way to choose your driver(s). Driving tests with old robots or with at least the base of your new bot could show your skill, but you should also use a rule test to see how much they know about the game. Hard work/Determination, GP, and skill are probably the three factors our team looks at the most when picking a driver. If you have two drivers, then imo the most important skill is how much chemistry the drivers have, because when you have two skilled drivers you can't unlock their maximum potential until they work together like clockwork.
To choose drivers we start with a written test. Then, as the robot starts to be finished (at least the base with drivetrain) and when you can attach bumpers and the goal to it (don't want someone to break it before comp) you have a test. It's a pressure situation because they know it's their chance to be driver, and you have a group of people watch them (mentors who choose the driver, not other students). You then have one mentor stand near them and tell them what to do before the start, and see if they can do it.
i.e. in 2007 we had a field set up, the robot together, but the manipulator wasn't quite working. they put ringers on the floor, had us drive next to them, say pick them up (as if we had a manipulator and a person to say it to), then the mentor would judge if they were close enough to pick it up or not. If not then say you didn't get it and have them reallign. Then have them drive to the rack as if they scored, and try to end up on a ramp at the end of the time (we had about 1 minute I think, and they said when 20 seconds was left). Things to keep in mind while people do this is see their technique, how well they accomplish things, and also the way the pick what to do (backing up when it's faster instead of turning around, if they make a mistake fixing it instead of saying that wasn't good, was it?, etc.)
NorviewsVeteran
25-01-2009, 14:24
If you're going to include video games, have the WHOLE team play a variety of games- racing, shooting, preferably something with co op play. Don't look at the scores or individual performance, look at the individuals. Somebody might be really good at a particular game, but the one that stays cool and can come back after a big hit is who you want controlling the field. The rules can be learned, but the attitude has to come over a long time.
Also, your Driver/Drive Team is who people see on the field. They're attitudes and actions tend to represent the whole team in a lot of cases. So if they walk out to the field with a bad attitude looking as if they just woke up that may not make your team look well or another team may remember that during alliance selections.
This is one of the more rather important factors when deciding who team drivers are going to be. I'm entering my forth year as the Devil Duckies Head Driver and the most important factor in deciding who will be on the stage is their dedication. The students who are willing to stay late nights building, talking and making key decisions about not only the design of the robot, but the rest of the team are those who should be considered "worthy" to represent the team.
Video games don't matter, if anything that's one of the most shallow ways of picking a driver, no offense to those who consider that method:D . Finding a student who is loyal to the team, a great leader, motovating, intelligent, fun and has almsot no life or job:yikes: is what you should be looking for. The fact that they may be pretty good at staring at a tv screen should be a bonus. It's also almost a given that the student who spends the most time with the robot and helps design, build, and modify the darn thing is going to be the driver(they also need to dig the crazy hair:D ).
My info may be biased on account of myself being on a small team where a core group of students shares most of the responsibility, but oh well:) . For the most part, the drivers, as well as the other leaders on the team, usually pick students and take them "under their wing" so that when they graduate, there's another to take on the responsibilities.
Urban Hawk
25-01-2009, 16:10
i believe that in many instances the people who are extremely into video games do general make good drivers because it gives them experience; yet don't count out those less into them because you might miss a very good driver if you do.
Because of this I think in this question the real question should be what makes a good driver; not just who makes a good driver. Some of these things would be things such as reflexes, the ability to make a quick but accurate judgment, skill at the controls, the ability to work with others, and ability to plan ahead would be just a few among the many qualities that would make up good drivers. The list can truly go on and on. As for methods to prepare them for competition, there are plenty to chose from.
One of the easiest methods to train them is obviously to either use your robot or use a robot from another year equipped with the new wheels and actually use it to train your drivers to how the conditions will be. even if the two robots are not exactly alike they can still give the drivers a general idea of what they are facing.
As for using video games to train the drivers is a good way; however the way you train them with the games can vary. With people not that experienced in video games it may be a good idea to go all the way though the games simply so they can get good at using controllers and really get used to them.
However for people who have allot of practice with video games, simply going all the way through them in the normal way will be no where near as effective given the fact that they all ready probably have years of experience with them so a few weeks playing them will not do much to help them. With those people you need to fine tune their skills.
one of my favorite ways to train them is to do stuff such as having the drivers in a different room then the game, then playing the game through until you reach an extremely difficult situation. then you can pause the game, power off the tv, and then bring the driver into the room. You give them the controller and unpause the game at the same time as you turn on the tv. That way the driver has no idea what they are about to encounter and will force them to work on their reflexes and quick thinking to safely get out of the spot. For added difficulty you can switch the games on them.
That is only one method to train them however if you get creative you can come up with other ways to train their skills.
Also remember the fact you get 2 drivers in the game. That is also going to determine training methods because one driver you are going to want to train more heavily in driving skills while the other one you will probably want to train more heavily on judgement and shooting skills so they can accurately score on the opponents.
Also because of this fact the drivers also need to be able to work together effectively and be able to know what the other will most likely do in the competition. Its no good having a great shooter if your driver makes sudden changes and the shooter cant anticipate it.
Also the major thing you have to prepare the drivers for is the rules so make sure they understand them before you let them drive. penaltys can make a major difference in a close match so it is no good if you lose a match simply because you get a penalty.
Picking a drive team is a major discussion that all of our mentors are involved in. To determine this we
* Give a written/verbal test to see who understands the rules (used to be written but last few years more of a verbal test)
*Let each student drive the robot around and simulate actions they would have to do on the field
But, Most importantly we look at who has been an active team member. Being on the drive team is an honor. I mean you are representing our TEAM. Our drive team at regionals will definitely be made of 4 students that have been leaders during crunch time and understand the robot's capabilities (because they fully understand the robot((because they were the ones that made it))).
I honestly I have never seen a person that is just naturally gifted at driving a robot. The students that are the best are students that were the most dependable during the build season.
Besides there are always invitationals later where the others can drive.
techsupport07
25-01-2009, 17:39
Our team really has no specific way of choosing. We normally just have the secondary driver (controller of the arm, etc.) from the previous year graduate up to the main driving position. This will usually happen their senior year. I, myself have been a driver for the team (both secondary and the main driver). I started out by controlling the shooting and ball pick-up in 2006. I then became the main driver in 2007 (my senior year). Usually to even start out driving, our drivers have some experience, whether it be with RC vehicles or video games. I play a lot of racing video games and do a lot of RC racing, etc.
Picking a drive team is a major discussion that all of our mentors are involved in. To determine this we
* Give a written/verbal test to see who understands the rules (used to be written but last few years more of a verbal test)
*Let each student drive the robot around and simulate actions they would have to do on the field
But, Most importantly we look at who has been an active team member. Being on the drive team is an honor. I mean you are representing our TEAM. Our drive team at regionals will definitely be made of 4 students that have been leaders during crunch time and understand the robot's capabilities (because they fully understand the robot((because they were the ones that made it))).
I honestly I have never seen a person that is just naturally gifted at driving a robot. The students that are the best are students that were the most dependable during the build season.
Besides there are always invitationals later where the others can drive.
You make a good point, but must also consider that those who don't know exacly how things work will not hold back in rough situatiosn. I'm not saying it's good to not know the robot, but make sure those who do know everything about it don't hold back in situations where they may hurt the robot a little to win a match because they were afraid of damaging it too much. Make sure they play every match to it's fullest. (I'm not saying carelessness, but driving to it's full extent when necessary).
Some of the best drivers I have seen were on the animation team and knew less technical facts about the robot than those on mechanical or electrical. Everyone on the team, though, should know about your robot.
bigbeezy
25-01-2009, 18:56
We look at commitment during the build process and to the team in general. Not just the number of hours that one's put in but how much of that time was actually spent working on the robot or for the team and not just messing around. Then we have everyone on the team take a written test (used to be the "driver's test" but now is for all leadership positions on the team during competition). The scores on this test don’t say whether or not you'd be a good driver, but what it shows is that you are dedicated to read the game manual and understand the rules to the nth degree.
Then finally we look at driver skill. However just being good at driving doesn’t mean that you'll get the job. Communication is paramount. If you can't communicate with your co-driver and coach then you have no business behind the controls. One big aspect is, can they stay cool under pressure. It’s easy to drive at your shop where it’s nice and quiet and no opposing robots to compete against, but can you do the same things with the same poise during the real thing.
How do your teams choose who is going to be a driver?
My team thought of a "video game tournament" would be the best way of doing this. We are playing driving games like MarioKart, and Need for Speed. Apparently who ever is the best at playing video games will be the best at driving the robot, at least that is the theory.
I was wondering what you think of this idea, and if it will produce accurate results. I think there are many many many more factors involved. For instance I want the participants to all stand up, wear scratched up saftey glasses and listen to extremely loud music while playing.
So, what do you think? Will the best video gamer be the best driver?
Those of us developing the FRC simulation that will be distributed soon hope that it is a useful part of driver training this season; and that as its fidelity increases in future seasons, it becomes a valuable tool in teams' bags-o-tricks for driver training and other build season activities.
Take a look here: Link to recent 5th Gear discussion (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67395&highlight=simulator)
and here: 5th Gear discussion with links to other FRC simulation threads (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67316&highlight=gblake)
We look forward to your feedback.
Blake
Andrew Y.
25-01-2009, 19:53
my personal opinion is the driving games will have NO baring on robot driving skills. Its kinda silly
Heres how i choose drivers
1) Test on Robot and Game Rules
2) Test on robot operations, functions, and know how to repair and fix on the fly aka "Pit engineering"
3) A driving test that I determine visually. I look for consistency, ability to drive while taking orders, a time trial of laps
4) involvement during the build season. And overall attitude
At the end, the mentors and teacher coaches get together and select our primary driving team & a secondary
Kyle Love
25-01-2009, 19:53
Allow all students to at least try out.
Have driver testing on multiple days (at least 3-5 days)
Put them in realistic situations.
Put other robots out there with them.
Create criteria for fairly judging the drivers (obstacle course is a good one also)
Implement a points system to fairly choose a driver.
Keep the top 2-3 for practice day at your first regional
Give each driver equal field time at the regional to see if they crack under pressure
Have a finalized drive team by the end of Thursday at your first regional.
Keep the other drivers ready to replace the main driver at any time. (we all get sick eventually)
AlexD744
25-01-2009, 20:06
On our team we have 4 people who want to be drivers. So we just made 2 teams. Thiers basically an A and B team. I'm on the B team. :-(. But I'm also a freshman and the other 3 are juniors. That's means I'll have 2 years after they graduate. However, the driving is a lot different this year and things might change. However, I doubt they will.
AlexD744
25-01-2009, 20:13
I honestly I have never seen a person that is just naturally gifted at driving a robot. The students that are the best are students that were the most dependable during the build season.
Our head driver, Blake, is naturally gifted. He just tried it one time and realized he could drive really well.
smurfgirl
25-01-2009, 20:22
On our team we have 4 people who want to be drivers. So we just made 2 teams. Thiers basically an A and B team. I'm on the B team. :-(. But I'm also a freshman and the other 3 are juniors. That's means I'll have 2 years after they graduate. However, the driving is a lot different this year and things might change. However, I doubt they will.
Don't worry about being on the "B" team, you are lucky that you have three experienced drivers to practice with and learn from. As a freshman, a lot of this season will probably be spent learning new things and having wisdom passed down to you from older members. Enjoy it for what its worth. Regardless of if you end up driving the robot in future years, you still will have benefited from the lessons learned as a member of your drive team this year. That's what really counts in the long run.
Chris Fultz
25-01-2009, 20:29
Many teams make the selection of a talented freshman or sophomore on the team, and then stick with that person until they graduate. There are lots of reasons for that, the main one being the value of experience on the field. While video games and athletic competitions may give some preparation, there is nothing that can prepare you for being in a FIRST match than being in a previous FIRST match.
Why - (just a few)
the unique dynamic of 3 v 3
the need for cooperation between partners
the need for quick decisions
the ability to listen to a coach, and quickly make moves on the field
the ability to be a hero one match and a dog the next
the ability to be critiqued by every other member of the team
the ability to have 'heartfelt' discussions with the team mentors
the ability to push for a solid strategy
just plain experience
Many teams also select a drive team (all four positions) and stay with them the entire season or at least an entire competition. There are many dynamics that come in to play with these 4 people and the more time they spend together the better they work together.
NorviewsVeteran
25-01-2009, 20:35
Many teams also select a drive team (all four positions) and stay with them the entire season or at least an entire competition. There are many dynamics that come in to play with these 4 people and the more time they spend together the better they work together.
Such as the other driver/coach leaving out words and you know exactly what they mean. That is built over time.
bigbeezy
26-01-2009, 00:13
Such as the other driver/coach leaving out words and you know exactly what they mean. That is built over time.
Exactly.
At your first regional communication is key because the drivers and coach really haven't been working together very long and haven't gained that experience. But once you're at your second or third competition drivers are able to know what each other is going to do and the communication is more for double checking.
That is why i dont really understand/agree with the use of two drive teams. Basicially you are cutting that experience in half.
IMO having driver tryouts on thursday of competition is not good. I mean unless you had zero time to practice before ship I would want my drive team to get as much time as possible behind the controls. When I was a driver I would use thursdays to 1) get used to how the robot handles, 2) figure timing on tasks such as crossing the field or going between scoring positions, and most importantly 3) trying things that would be risky to do on Friday/Saturday for instance 2006 when on top of the platform i tried moving on the slick surface and found that it was really easy to slide off the ramp, so I knew not to do that during competition.
We allow all students to try out. The drive team based on how well the performed on a rules/strategy test and on the driving test. We also take other factors into account such as will they be traveling to all events, team participation, will their team role duties be limited if they are driving and past experience. Another thing we try to take into account is if the student can accurately express themselves; this is helpful when talking to the head ref and developing strategies. We also try not to have an all senior drive team.
My team has a selection process based on several criteria. We have an obstacle course set up with old years robots, and we record the times and the number of obstacles knock down. That is the predominant thing, but we also consider a person's ability to handle themselves under pressure, how well they interact with the co-driver, how well they can stratigize, and how dedicated they are to the team, seeing as how its kind of a privelage to drive.
in our team first the mentors look at the students attendance,leadership skills,work ethic and diside whos qualified. then we have a series of driving test with diffrent situations with diffrent people matched up for both postions. then the mentors make the decision.
H0WSY0URCAT
26-01-2009, 18:22
About the racing games to find the best driver......I am the worst at racing games and i was told by some of my mentors and other team's mentors that i am one of the best drivers they have seen. I think it all comes down to hand eye coordination and dexterity and also if they do well under pressure.
WhiteShadow1474
26-01-2009, 20:02
I for sure can say that driving an FRC robot is much different than driving a tricked out ride in need for speed. It's not all about speed. It's about control. You also need to be able to take all types of pressure. Pressure from your teammates and alliance members. You basically are representing 6 weeks of your team's blood sweat and tears. I knew that i did not want to disapoint my team.
lukevanoort
27-01-2009, 09:33
Racing games and robot driving make use of some similar natural (and developed) aptitudes. If I have naturally fast reflexes and strong hand-eye coordination then I am probably better at both racing games and robot driving than a similar person lacking those qualities. However, this is true of many things; for example, competitive martial arts share even more qualities with robot driving (rapid strategizing, hand-eye, reflexes, peripheral vision, stressful environment), but its pretty clear that holding a martial arts tournament is probably not a great way to select a driver.
In the end, the only way to really determine if someone is a good driver is to have them drive at a competition. I have seen people who are quite good drivers in testing lose a lot of their talent when placed into the stressful competition environment. Conversly, some people perform much better under stress. So, since you can't really hold a full competition just to find drivers, your best bet is to replicate the competition environment as closely as possible, find the person who performs the best, and then let that person practice as much as possible. (practice being the key element, even a terrible driver can become decent with enough practice)
Kakashi1261
27-01-2009, 09:47
I was one of the drivers last year for 2008, and I am driving again this year, but what I am not seeing a lot of comments on is the stress and pressure. I know that I was not the only one in that whole Georgia Dome that was stressed out, heart racing faster than any robot. So My suggestion is to invite students, teachers, and just random people to watch them practice, and get them to watch the driver closely. This is the only simulation I can come up with that can partly compare to a regional.
Some teams, Like ours, gets the chance to go to a practice regional before we ship the robot, so that is a great place to hold try-outs.
On our team everyone practices driving and then the mentors make the final decision before competitions start.
Another thing you should consider when selecting drivers is the amount of socializing and alliance strategizing the drivers do... pick someone who wont mind communicating with others both on and off the team, can handle the stress and knows the game.
Kit Gerhart
27-01-2009, 16:04
About the racing games to find the best driver......I am the worst at racing games and i was told by some of my mentors and other team's mentors that i am one of the best drivers they have seen. I think it all comes down to hand eye coordination and dexterity and also if they do well under pressure.
That is an interesting comment. I am one who disagrees with some people on my team who think being good at games makes you good at robot driving. It sounds like you confirm my thoughts. It would be possible to make a game that simulates driving our robots, but the regular games do not. Our robots all have their handling characteristics which are a lot different from what most games would do with the same control inputs. Maybe I also discount the relevance of games because I am relatively good at driving robots (for someone about 45 years too old to be FIRST-eligible), though I have very VERY little experience with video games. I figure maybe the R/C airplane flying and R/C car racing helped in my case, but who knows.
Anyway, the bottom line, as many have stated, is that knowledge of the rules, knack for game strategy, ability to take pressure, and having the right attitude are at least as important in making a good driver as having good "stick skills," though the stick skills are very important.
A last comment... We select our drivers "starting from scratch" every year. Sometimes a returning drive team member will keep the job, and sometimes not, but every team member who meets our general requirements to travel to the competitions is given the chance to try out for drive team positions if they want to.
Maybe I also discount the relevance of games because I am relatively good at driving robots (for someone about 45 years too old to be FIRST-eligible), though I have very VERY little experience with video games. I figure maybe the R/C airplane flying and R/C car racing helped in my case, but who knows.
The most recent FIRSTCast discussed this topic. I do remember R/C being brought up. That's actually going to be a bit better than racing video games.
nnfuller
28-01-2009, 00:33
I have to say i agree with the idea of looking for people who solve problems well under pressure. I may not be the best driver on my team at all times, but when it comes down to a real competition i seem to handle the pressure better. Also people who know how the robot works are more capable of problem solving should you have a malfunction mid round. I know that when we had someone who didn't have a main role in the construction of the drive train and a motor blew he lost it because he couldn't understand the problem and no amount of video games will teach you how your robot works.:yikes:
This is a quote from another post I made about a year ago, as lame as it sounds I do believe it. The driver needs to know every little quirk of the robot. As a driver I could do things with some of my bots that no one else could replicate, because I knew my bot. You need to know precisely what will happen.
"The driver must have a relationship with the robot, the driver should talk to the robot, speak soft encouraging words to it. Pet names are also a good idea. If the driver does not love the robot, how can the driver learn to trust the robot. The driver-robot relationship is one of love, if you love the robot, she/he will never fail you, she will go that little bit, the limits can be pushed, and she will take ya the distance that equals the amount of love you have for her. I can think of some of the greatest conversations I had with my robot, she never let me down. I loved that robot... It brought a tear to my eye when she was scrapped for parts... "
The driver should always be the one who turns the robot on and give it the last once over.
Oh and I hate video games...
CraigHickman
28-01-2009, 02:46
One of the biggest things to remember is that Driving is not entirely about skill. It's about teamwork, so you may find a kid who's a complete ringer behind the sticks but if he can't work with his co-driver, HP and Coach then why have him on the field. Also it's good to look into who would be the best Drive Team rather than who will be the best Driver, Operator and HP.
Exactly. In the past my team has always selected the Base Driver based on skill, but not really examined anything else. For the new team I'm mentoring, here's the process they'll go through upon testing:
1. Students who want to be the driver can sign up. Same for students who want to be an operator. From then on we throw all the possible permutations onto a table, and the testing begins!
2. We test each operator Squad in a short (1 minute!) emulation of the game. For this year, we're going to be moving a trashcan around between "scoring windows", since we don't have trailers. The Squad that scores the highest will drive the bot.
We're hoping this will emulate the real field situation as much as possible. In order to make the test closer to the actual competition, we'll be blasting music at them, as they play wearing scratched up safety glasses. Should be fun!
Also, here's the advice I give my drivers: "Drive it like you stole it." It's the pit crew's job to make sure the bot is in good condition, the driver shouldn't have to worry about that. We'll keep the machine running, you make it your world out there. In the words of Randy Couture, "Impose your will" upon the field, and the rest will follow.
Collin Fultz
28-01-2009, 08:46
I have to say i agree with the idea of looking for people who solve problems well under pressure. I may not be the best driver on my team at all times, but when it comes down to a real competition i seem to handle the pressure better.
This is an interesting point. In 2004, when I was a student, I was selected to be the HP. For those who don't remember, HP's played a huge role in that game, scoring similarly to the HP's in this year's game. I wasn't the best shooter in the world, but I understood the strategy of the game and obsessively watched matches that year. At any given competition, I could tell you the tendencies of every other team there. Did they like to hang? When did they typically go for the bar? How good was their HP? I was like an NFL coordinator on the field. There was a student who was better at shooting than I was, but he was a sophomore and I was a senior and a co-captain, so I got the nod. In Atlanta that year, I went 0-5 in a match that we lost by 5 points. One made basket would have tied and two would have won it for us. I walked off the field and handed the HP button to Pat. All of the strategy in the world couldn't match on the skills he had.
Of course, the real stinger was at IRI that year, when my girlfriend at the time (now my wife) got to be HP for a match. She went 6-6, calmly walked off the field and said, "I don't see why that was so hard for you to do in Atlanta."
What's my point? I don't know. But don't underestimate natural ability...especially in younger members. It should be the coach's job to hold the strategy in his mind. The driver should be focused on executing the strategy. Think of it like an NFL offense. The coach is the O-Coordinator. The driver is the QB. The driver needs to be focused on the current task at hand, the current play. The coach can focus on big picture things, like time left and current match score (especially this year). The coach being able to communicate is just as big of a factor as the driver being able to communicate. The decision on who the coach is can have just as big an impact on match success and the decision on drivers.
So, I guess the next question is...how do teams choose their coach?
Enigma's puzzle
28-01-2009, 09:07
I was a coach for the last two years, and i came across the same kind of realization that you did, as HP. There were people that were coaches, that could recite the manual like a poem, but they were lacking the people skills to convey their great strategies to there alliance partners. I have since realized that knowing the rules verbatim is less important than being able to work with other teams, share strategies, and think on the fly.
What we have been looking for in a coach, is someone humble, smart to stratagize and "play well with others", while being able to tell their opinion in a strong confident manner, off the field. While on the field they can be the "GPS" to anticipate what will happen and convey directions to the drive team, essentially applying the given strategy to the situation. while being able to adjust the strategy on the fly.
In your football analogy, above, the HP would be lineman, given strategy at the beginning of the play and then being expected to execute it by himself. While the coach (as the football coach) gives the driver (quarterback) directions, and the driver is in charge making the decision how to do it.
Brandon_L
28-01-2009, 09:59
we just take the bot to the gym. Anyone who wants to drive comes up and we make teams of 2 (one for driving and one to control manipulators and stuff.) We then just pick the best....If we can't decide (we didn't last year) then we use both teams and swap them out every other match.
When I am looking for drivers, I look for kids that are good under pressure, mature, competitive and can work well with the other drive team members. If I have a kid who is a great driver but is constantly yelling at the other members of the drive team or is ignoring the field coach then I would not even consider them. It is great to have your driver and operator be friends that communicate well with each other. Look at the best sports teams, they all tend to have great chemistry and work together. Teams like the Dallas Cowboys had serious issues this season, because there was a lot of fighting amongst their team, while a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers have worked together more as a team and have made it to the Super Bowl. Competitiveness is also key to me. I hate losing more than anything in the world and I want my drivers to feel the same way. They should play every match like it is the finals. If they aren't focused on winning every time they are in a match, then I will find a replacement for them. Finally the drivers need to make a commitment to the team. They need to show a passion for the team, even if it is animation, programming, web design or chairmans. You need to care about the team, it can't just be something you just do, it needs to hold a significant purpose in your life. If you don't care about the team, I am not even going to consider you as a driver.
This thread's great. You've pointed out lots of stuff that I 'knew', but couldn't put into words. Anyway, here are my thoughts, split into oddly-titled paragraphs that are phrases the drive team should believe.
"There is nothing but the team": They should be inhumanly dedicated to the team. They should want the drive position, they should be excited for competition, they should want to waste saturdays in March watching grainy, heavily compressed webcasts of other regionals.
"There is nothing but the next match": The drive team can't be easily distracted during the competition. They shouldn't run off to screw around when they should be talking with their next alliance partners. If they have nothing to do, they should be out scouting, watching matches, and doing post-mortems of past matches.
"There is nothing that can disturb me": They should not be affected by the screaming, loud music, and semi-celebrity (at least within the building) status that being a driver exposes them to. They should welcome and understand criticism about past matches so that they can improve for the next one.
"There isn't a 'good enough'": If a practice bot is available, they should want to drive it until battery exhaustion every day after school. They should do drills, to improve their handling, etc. They should set performance goals and meet them.
Essentially what I've described is the mindset of a committed athlete. The endless practices, the obsession, the ability to focus under pressure, they're all prerequisites for a successful athlete, and they should likewise be required for a FIRST driver. Ability to handle a robot can be learned by practice, but the correct attitude is much harder to instill.
Thanks for all the input, please keep it coming in!
I'm going to mention this in my team's next group meeting (tomorrow). I know that there are some on the team that feel very skeptical about this idea. Thanks again!
thefro526
28-01-2009, 18:36
Also, here's the advice I give my drivers: "Drive it like you stole it." It's the pit crew's job to make sure the bot is in good condition, the driver shouldn't have to worry about that. We'll keep the machine running, you make it your world out there. In the words of Randy Couture, "Impose your will" upon the field, and the rest will follow.
I'm With Craig On This One.
You can Never replay a match. Drive Each Match As If It were your last. If your robot breaks then fix it. When Picking driver's they have to be ready to make risky moves, be aggressive and remember they have the hopes and dreams of an entire team on their back.
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