View Full Version : Riveting for speed
Richard Wallace
28-01-2009, 15:50
148 is apparently (http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11576) planning to attach their bumpers using rivets. Rivets are strong and light, and can be removed/replaced faster than bolts, or so I've heard. :)
Any other teams thinking along those lines?
JHSmentor
28-01-2009, 15:59
We rivetted our frame together in order to get it welded easily and I know that other teams have used them for their entire robot (without welding) but I can't imagine using them for the bumper attachments. I would be interested to know how they are going to do it, but there are potentially quicker and easier ways to mount bumpers. For our design though - getting inside the frame in order to drill out the rivets to allow the bumpers to be removed will be next to impossible. Having 2-3 bolts to hold them on would be so much easier I'm guessing.
Bob Steele
28-01-2009, 15:59
Pop or Blind Rivets you might be able to get out quickly... a quick drilling and they pop loose... IF you can get the drill where you need it...right angle drill might come in handy...
interesting idea..
standard aircraft rivets.... no way they would be faster.....
by the way Do you know what they call 1.5 million rivets flying in formation?
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A. Boeing 747.....
Kevin Sevcik
28-01-2009, 16:13
I'm curious as to what style of rivets they're using and what they're using as backup material. There are rivets that can anchor in a blind hole in wood, but they deform the wood as they do so. So I don't think they're be a viable option after the third replacement or so. I can only assume they're using metal plates of some sort to actually rivet to, but it really seems like it might be more trouble than it's worth.
Paul Copioli
28-01-2009, 16:17
Yes we will use rivets. Interestingly enough, we have been using rivets for the past three years for the bumpers and an inspector never said a word until the Championship last year during elimination round inspection (yes, we even passed the initial event inspection). I am glad it is cleared up this year.
And it is a fact that I can remove a pop rivet faster than someone can remove a nut and bolt. I am taking challenges.
Rick TYler
28-01-2009, 16:21
And it is a fact that I can remove a pop rivet faster than someone can remove a nut and bolt. I am taking challenges.
Do I get to use my cordless driver with a hex socket on it?
Paul Copioli
28-01-2009, 16:23
Yep.
sounds like a good contest/fundraiser for IRI.
$10 for a chance to beat Copioli.
Richard Wallace
28-01-2009, 16:40
Last year Paul got to kiss the pig at IRI. Not that he, or the pig, actually enjoyed it. :rolleyes:
I imagine he'd welcome the opportunity to prove his riveting speed at the next IRI, rather than repeat last year's performance. It could be called the Copioli pit-stop challenge.
Greg Needel
28-01-2009, 16:46
we are going to be using rivets for the bumpers. see the attached photo for an explanation how. We will be using 1/4 inch aluminum rivets.
we are going to be using rivets for the bumpers. see the attached photo for an explanation how. We will be using 1/4 inch aluminum rivets.
I might steal this. It's a good idea.
I feel like we should get karma points for "Inspiration via Q&A".
Bob Steele
28-01-2009, 17:17
Greg I am intrigued with this idea.
Do you think we would have problem with the mount that sticks out from the wood bumper material?
In looking at the way R08 is written I see no problem with this.
The rule states that elements attached to the bumpers are part of the bumper so I can only presume that you can attach elements to the back of the bumpers that are not the "3/4" plywood...
I really like that the GDC has opened up these requirements this year allowing all of us to engineer our own ways of attaching the bumpers...
After all ... it is the bumper that is important and that they don't weigh more than the 18 pounds total...
Paul Copioli
28-01-2009, 20:06
Here is our cross section. I am too tired to make a special picture so here is a direct shot from our solid model. The total height is 6", the bottom of the large angle is riveted to the bottom of the frame and the flat part is riveted to the side panel.
JHSmentor
29-01-2009, 01:26
very cool - we could use this too. I'll pass it on to the team for a vote. thx for sharing.
CraigHickman
29-01-2009, 01:31
Our team has one that we think can beat this one in speed, and I'm curious if the think tank around here agrees.
Take two hinges, and mount each at the ends of a bumper, so the bumper does not move when the hinge is also mounted to the chassis. Once the hinges are mounted to both, Knock the pins out. Instead of the pin, put a bolt of similar size in, and spot weld a Nut to the bottom side. Removing the bumpers is as simple as hitting two bolts with a power impact tool from the top.
Though I can see this rivet idea being cheaper than ours....
Herodotus
29-01-2009, 01:43
Here's a question though Paul, do you guys have a pneumatic rivet gun? I can't see a manual rivet gun being faster than taking a nut on and of, though maybe that's just our riveting abilities(or lack thereof) in action.
Paul Copioli
29-01-2009, 02:06
Pneumatic rivet gun from Harbor Freight - $25
Portable compressor deom Home Depot - $60
The look on someone's face when your rivets are faster than their bolts - priceless!
Pneumatic rivet gun from Harbor Freight - $25
Portable compressor deom Home Depot - $60
The look on someone's face when your rivets are faster than their bolts - priceless!
The look on Paul's face when for some reason "they" won't let him bring his compressor into the pits - PRICELESS!
... for everything else, use the "Big Daddy". (See McMaster #90239A510 - Best $100 our team ever spent.)
AdamHeard
29-01-2009, 02:49
Instead of Robots racing dean kamen.... how about Bumper races?
Our Cotter pin method might be able to rival the speed of rivets, but I doubt it.
Michael Corsetto
29-01-2009, 03:09
Drop in bumpers with bolts sliding into slots in L bracket aluminum, fastening with wing nuts? Design courtesy of 1114's 2008 robot. If you factor in the time it takes to set up the rivet remover tool (whatever that may be), we might have you beat?
I'd like to see the rivet method in action...
I'm pretty sure any of the previously mentioned methods will be under 10 minutes, but if this competition results in someone having to kiss a pig again, let the games begin!
AdamHeard
29-01-2009, 03:17
Drop in bumpers with bolts sliding into slots in L bracket aluminum, fastening with wing nuts? Design courtesy of 1114's 2008 robot. If you factor in the time it takes to set up the rivet remover tool (whatever that may be), we might have you beat?
I'd like to see the rivet method in action...
I'm pretty sure any of the previously mentioned methods will be under 10 minutes, but if this competition results in someone having to kiss a pig again, let the games begin!
Our cotter pin method takes 2 people 1 minute tops to do a robot, and probably 10 seconds per bumper.
I imagine riveting is even less than that.
Billfred
29-01-2009, 06:41
The look on Paul's face when for some reason "they" won't let him bring his compressor into the pits - PRICELESS!
... for everything else, use the "Big Daddy". (See McMaster #90239A510 - Best $100 our team ever spent.)
Seconded on the Big Daddy. Accept no Harbor Freight substitutes. (That we can't really use it on the C-Base (after a wonderful experience riveting the Kitbot last season) is my only real grumble about the new frame...but we'll figure out a way to get our money's worth this year.)
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