Robots after the competition [Archive]

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GillSt.Bernards

12-03-2009, 18:19

So Team 2458 was trying to come up with ideas on what to do with the robot after all the competitions for the 2009 year and off season competitions. Unfortuanatly our school will not allow us to keep the robots unless we come up with a productive use for them so we are going to edit ours to become a tee shirt launcher. We decided that would be something fun to do during the off season and that would benefit the schools because they could use it during basketball games.

Any other ideas?

Matt C

12-03-2009, 18:21

Wow, the school I deal with expects all the robots to still work, but won't give us enough room to store them properly.

GillSt.Bernards

12-03-2009, 18:23

Lucky yeah ours is like if you find a good use for it and we can use it you can keep it other wise take it apart, keep the parts that you need and dispose of it

kevin.li.rit

12-03-2009, 18:25

A tshirt launcher is doable, but I always like to keep a couple robots around as is. They can be useful as a platform to teach programming or test out code. It is also useful for demos.

It also seems early to tear down a robot when there are off season events that occur into the fall.

Collin Fultz

12-03-2009, 18:27

It is also useful for demos.

Use this point to your school. Tell them you will use it at demos at schools without robotics programs to help start new teams as well as at potential sponsors to try to gain more monetary support.

GillSt.Bernards

12-03-2009, 18:28

Yeah well if we do not have a design by the time the robot is going to come back then they are just going to throw it out themselves.

Any other ideas besides a tee shirt launcher that this robot could be made into

GillSt.Bernards

12-03-2009, 18:29

Use this point to your school. Tell them you will use it at demos at schools without robotics programs to help start new teams as well as at potential sponsors to try to gain more monetary support.

Yeah the school is not buying that. Our school is really strange and really does not see the point in this team even though it has done so much for the students who joined

kevin.li.rit

12-03-2009, 18:30

If you take apart your robot you cannot attend Monty Madness!

http://www.montymadness.org/

Matt Howard

12-03-2009, 18:40

As a temporary solution, see if you can park it at a students house for the time being. In the meantime, ask the school if they would provide space for a storage container. Seatainers can be had very cheaply, and if you ask the right companies they can even be had for free.

Just an idea.

Collin Fultz

12-03-2009, 18:41

What if you "throw it out" by taking it to your lead mentor's house for storage?

johnr

12-03-2009, 19:26

I always thought a bot with a brush on it could be turned into a street/sidewalk cleaner. So when ever a kid gets into trouble the principal could tell him/her to clean up around the school. Wait, never mind, everyone will get in trouble then.:)

Ericgehrken

12-03-2009, 19:30

What if you "throw it out" by taking it to your lead mentor's house for storage?
Definitely consider doing that because then your team can keep your robot together for demos and off season events.

ZInventor

12-03-2009, 20:20

if the school won;t let you keep the bot there, why not keep it at home? (mentor or student;s house!!!)

our school won;t let us store the bot at school, but we can still keep it at home!

if the school refuses any of those solutions, and do throw it out, press charges for theft! since it is you guys who built the bot, not them...

-Z

rsegrest

12-03-2009, 21:29

Please tell me you guys are joking...my department director and superintendent would be FURIOUS if we trashed out bots. Just as an example we are a second year team who partially disassembled last years robot to do some prototyping and practice after we shipped. The first thing my director said when he walked in and saw it was, "You are going to put it back together when you're done with it aren't you?"...

Here's a question for you, who are your mentors? If your sponsors are either science or math teachers your bot is an INCREDIBLE teaching tool (think gear ratios, torque, horsepower etc.) have you used that approach with the administration? Also, if you need to play dirty then use the old going for a greener world! I mean come on...there are resistors, capacitors, etc. that we really don't need to be putting anymore of in the landfills!

:( All the bots in the bot graveyard... :ahh:

Billfred

12-03-2009, 22:32

This seems like something that one of the New Jersey old-timers could offer a better insight on. You might want to talk with them to see if they can help convince your administrators on the importance of keeping old robots together. Try talking to 25 in particular, as they've championed the pre-rookie concept for fall events. (And, as a mentor of 2458 for about 24 hours at Brunswick Eruption in 2007, I know North Brunswick is in reach.)

To that end, uses for a full and complete robot:

1) Eye candy. You can ask any mentor--or they'll tell you--about the importance of having a robot to show anyone you're trying to bring aboard. Students, mentors, sponsors, anybody--show a robot, and it becomes a lot easier for folks to wrap their heads around it. If they don't buy this, ask them to pitch a product (and ask for the money upfront) where you have nothing to show a client right now but have Really Awesome Stuff coming around the bend. Nine times out of ten, this approach will get you laughed out of the building. (Case in point: when 2815 started, they borrowed a robot from Metal In Motion to show at the first meeting in order to help the kids and parents wrap their head around what exactly they were signing up for.)

2) Programming practice. Heck, make it a programming contest if you've got the nerve to teach enough folks LabVIEW. This is the robot--no, you can't modify it--and this is the objective. Go.

3) A way to learn from your past mistakes. I've been on and around teams that would make bone-headed mistakes. If it weren't for the ability to go back and see how we did this or that a couple years ago, we'd repeat that bone-headed mistake. Keep running your robot, and see what breaks. If you can figure out what is most likely to break on your robot, you can start figuring out how to make it break less often or be repaired quicker--but this only happens with a robot around.

4) Rolling physics demonstration, as stated above.

5) Tackling dummy for future robots. (Sure, your robot can score when everything is lined up perfectly--but how does it handle when you've got another robot shaking you about?)

That said, the later posts make me believe you might have a deeper issue than what to do with a robot. If a school doesn't give proper support to the team, whether financial or (more frequently) logistical, it is infinitely harder to build a sustainable team. I've been fortunate to be on teams where the schools have been big fans of the robotics team, so I can't offer advice there. Your administrators don't "see the point" in the team? Do everything you can to make them see it. Invite/bring/drag/kidnap them to an event--since 2458 appears done for the regular season, try PARC or Monty Madness that happens before summer hits. Have them talk to the old-timers, the folks who've seen the effect this can have on students when a team is really running at full bore.

If you haven't done so already, start compiling your own statistics on the effectiveness of your program. How many members of the team have adjusted their post-graduation plans as a result of working with the team? How many people have you reached out to in the larger community? Have you created any partnerships with local businesses? (This isn't always money, mind you; ask WildStang about their efforts to place their graduates within Motorola, their primary sponsor.) NASA requires this sort of assessment of all teams that receive grants from them, in no small part because they have to justify the effectiveness of over a million dollars each year in federal grants. Your issue is probably not on the same scale as that of an agency of the federal government, but the importance of gauging effectiveness remains the same.

Stall for time on the robot, worry about getting the school on board.

GillSt.Bernards

13-03-2009, 11:36

Yeah I am going to ask if we can keep it at our head mentor's house. The street cleaning idea is pretty cool too. :)

Jared Russell

13-03-2009, 12:15

Our team acquired an old trailer for storage and transportation of our robots and tools. If your team has the resources, you can scour the area for good deals (maybe even a donation?) and get yourselves one. It is awesome because we can take it to nearby off season events and regionals and have half a shop's worth of spares and tools sitting in the parking lot.

(Just make sure the roof doesn't leak, as we found out at PARC last year!)

Lil' Lavery

13-03-2009, 12:28

If for whatever reason the school doesn't allow you to keep your robot, make sure you get to it before they throw it out. Be sure to rescue your electronics, and, in particular, the cRio. All signs point towards teams having to reuse the cRio each year, so it'll save you a considerable amount if you can salvage that.

IKE

13-03-2009, 12:45

If all else fails, ask the school for a compromise. Explain to them the virtues of having an extra running bot for demos, practice driving, and practice programming. Ask them if you can have a maximum of 2 on hand. Let the students (Past and Present) vote on which bots get to stick around. This will keep your alumni involved (at least until you trash their machine), and it will give you a working second bot to try stuff out on.

About 10 out of 14 Killerbee robots are still around. Most can be revived with a quick dusting, but some require a lot more. If Bungee and/or rubber bands are critical to it functioning, they seem to only have a lifespan of a couple years before that stuff needs replacing.

Billfred is right though that this seems like a symptom of a larger issue. Try to get involved at open houses and other stuff. Show the school the value of your team. Have each person write a personal letter to your Super-intendent and principle letting them know what this has meant to you. Most importantly, invite them to a competition or schedule a meeting and show them picutres. If they are not involved they won't get it. It is your job as a FRC member to get them involved enough to get their support.

rjamesjr

13-03-2009, 16:23

We made our robot for the 2007 game launch stress balls. We use it at basketball games and demonstrations. This year's robot is going to be modified so that it can shoot the balls and we will use it for demos also.

GillSt.Bernards

13-03-2009, 18:48

Unfortunatly our school is not much in a compromising mood and the fact that our faculty avdvisor will not be coming back next year we are kind of at a standstill. I have sent our head mentor an email but she is not going to be able to keep it at her house and she is checking with the company but it is not looking good. At the moment we do not have any faculy advosors for next year and no one to vouch for the robot or the students. I am going to try and get to it efore they throw it out and take the electronics off and see if we can get the go ahead to convert it to a tee shirt launcher, they kind of liked that idea. Thanks!

MarcD79

29-03-2009, 18:09

Did the school pay for all the supplies, metal, aluminum, or do you have a sponsor outside of school who donated materials, machined parts? If they did not pay for all the materials, they have no business insisting on having it disposed.

AlexD744

29-03-2009, 18:24

I'm sorry but if it weren't for our 2006 ad 2005 robot we wouldn't have this years regional final robot. Every robot you keep helps your team prosper. We use our other robots for practice and demonstrations. Without them I can't imagine us as regional finalists. I say you need to get your current lead mentor to find a replacement immediaately. Then, they need to get your principle to see the importance of robotics no matter what. It is extremely valueable. Maybe a student can house the robot until this is figured out. I would love to store a robot at my house (It might even be my senior wish). Anyway, I can't stand to see a team break apart because of the administration. Are you going to nationals?

gorrilla

29-03-2009, 18:29

we just stack our old ones in the back of our shop(all of them except the 2006 robot are squares now:P)and the 1 that we have(barely)running(2008) we use for demos and parades and stuff......

jamie_1930

29-03-2009, 23:11

For those in the Rochester, NY area we have Ruckus, a small competition at the end of the year to get excited about the new year. Also last year we realized we hadn't really done much to advertise so we had a couple demos to show off the robot and we even had some little kids drive it around. if you do let someone drive your robot at a demo remember to add your own E-Stop button no one wants to hear the headline "FIRST Robot injures toddler"

Carol

30-03-2009, 08:51

Is there another team nearby that could help with storage?

P.S. You don't have your state listed in your location so it's hard for other teams know where you are.

P.P.S. This applies to a lot of users on CD - please put complete location information in your profile.

MrForbes

30-03-2009, 09:36

I think the robot probably does belong to the school, since it's a school club....stuff that was donated now belongs to the school, so they can dispose of it how they please. It's very short-sighted to think of just throwing it away, as it can be a great teaching tool, unfortunately that requires a willing/dedicated teacher!

Definitely make sure they understand the monetary value of the parts....don't let that control system get thrown away!

Mike Hendricks

30-03-2009, 10:11

A couple years ago, we convinced our school to let us put a large steel storage container in the back parking lot at our school. It's large enough to fit our crates, large raw materials, field carpet, old field elements, game pieces and all our old robots.

All of our robots are kept in running condition, although some have been tweaked with for prototyping during build season. A couple hours of TLC, and we could have all of them running again. We have thought about suspending them from the ceilings in our shop (since we have like 15' ceilings).

We have always been against the idea of dismantling or destroying our robots.

Tetraman

30-03-2009, 10:17

174 dismantles completely all robots a year after the year they competed. There was only one that stayed longer then that was our Diabolocal Dynamics robot...because it got us to division semi's at the championship. We kept it for about three years after that because it was the best robot we ever built. But there just wasn't enough space for it anymore (we have a very small work room). So we had to dismantle it.

I suggested we take the large orange gripper from that robot and put them up on the wall like trophy antlers....but they didn't go for that idea.

Team2339

30-03-2009, 10:19

Put knobby wheels on it and convert to pick up soccer balls.
Now it has a purpose and can be shown off anywhere.:)

Seriously, the advantages of a working robot as an educational tool are incalculable. Make it's final form useful enough to have a purpose.

Let admin drive it.

:D

Tom Bishop

30-03-2009, 10:58

See if you can find a nearby team that could temporarily store your robot without dismantling until you can find a new mentor or sponsor that can help you out. If you had your state listed someone would probably volunteer or CD'ers could suggest someone!:)

Old robots are a very necessary part of any recruitment, outreach, and they provide an example for building new robots; a point that you can improve for next year.

Your best bet to convince the admins of the worth of the program and the utility of having the old robot around. Show them this thread!

GillSt.Bernards

30-03-2009, 11:19

GillSt.Bernards

30-03-2009, 11:21

EricH

30-03-2009, 11:50

If you can convert it to a T-shirt launcher, see if you can also make it drivable via camera, and launch a couple team T-shirts "in the general direction of" the school administration, the physics teachers, and people of that nature at low power.

Other suggestions: For a T-shirt launcher, see if you can scrounge up another compressor and a really old pneumatics tank. There are some pretty big ones that were FRC-legal many years ago (before 2001), and someone like 25 may still have one. You'll need plenty of capacity for lots of shots... Then, if you can figure up a method for a multi-barreled one or a revolver type, you just might have a chance. Color it in school colors. Then show the administration. Teach THEM how to operate it, so that when the team folds because they don't offer any support and the last of the current students graduate, THEY can drive it and use it.

And for some ideas on T-shirt launchers:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/32328
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/33464 (And if you follow my suggestion on the accumulator, PVC *might* be safe, though I'll suggest using something that can take air pressure for the barrel anyway.)
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31867 (The big black thing in the middle is the old-style tank I was talking about earlier.)
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30897 is the CAD of the launcher used in the first picture.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/29127

There are more, trust me, but these ought to get the creative juices flowing. (Search CD-Media with the term "T-shirt".)

Oh, and if the team continues for another year, get an IFI system if you don't have one and install that in the launcher when you take out the cRIO.