View Full Version : Entering Two Robots in an Offseason Competition?
Akash Rastogi
22-03-2009, 23:43
Are there any offseasons that do/do not allow doing this? Entering a second robot either for use by a pre-rookie or just if we want to train several drivers at once. I know all about entering robots for pre-rookies.
The Lucas
23-03-2009, 00:32
You are certainly welcome to enter 2 robots in the Duel on the Delaware. Last year we loaned our practice robot MOEkyo Drift to rookie Team 2558. They fixed it up (our practice robots are never "competition ready") and entered it in the Duel. We faced them (interesting to watch) in the QF and they won one match. We have also had 2 Daisies (341) before (I think in '06) and some pre-rookies.
I can also remember 2 robot teams at PARC. Last year, there was 145 & 145(2). I think I have seen multiple 1218 robots there as well.
EDIT: Mods you might want to move this to Off season events sub forum
I remember 254 once doing this, with the "Bionic Poofs"... although I think they were an actual FRC team for one year at least, with a number and everything.
SCRRF Fall Classic does, particularly if they're short on teams (they often are...).
I remember 254 once doing this, with the "Bionic Poofs"... although I think they were an actual FRC team for one year at least, with a number and everything.Bionic Poofs was the 60/254 collaboration.
Most offseason competitions will allow you to do this as long as they aren't too restricted on space (i.e. IRI).
IRI at one point was accepting pre-rookies. I'm not really sure if they still do or how it works. Is there a certain competition you are wondering about?
Considering the Rah Cha Cha Ruckus is struggling to make it to 24 teams (haven't got there yet) we would encourage teams to enter two robots in a heartbeat so long as you pay for it.
I know last year at one of the off seasons, 1519 ran Speed Racer and Fezzik as two distinct entities (Speed Racer was dubbed 9151 so FMS wouldn't puke all over it)
Elgin Clock
23-03-2009, 10:23
I know last year at one of the off seasons, 1519 ran Speed Racer and Fezzik as two distinct entities (Speed Racer was dubbed 9151 so FMS wouldn't puke all over it)
This happened at Battlecry @ WPI (Speed Racer was a substitute for any team not able to show up in a match which worked out well) & I think both of 1519's bots were also there for the innaugural Bear Brawl (http://www.wnecrobotics.com/)off-season competition in Springfield MA @ Western New England College as well.
I know Speed Racer was at least, since they won Bear Brawl (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31918).
Some events, such as Brunswick Eruption, encourage you to loan a practice or previous robot to a pre-rookie, and have at times given a discount to those pre-rookie entries.
The answer you need is that you probably can, but check with the specific event before committing to any travel plans.
Wetzel
Brandon Holley
23-03-2009, 10:59
This past year 1519 wanted to bring both their robots to the Beantown Blitz and compete as 2 teams.
Our cap is ~36 teams...we explained to them they would be 2 teams until we got to the waiting list...we had 34 teams show up, so 1519 got to run as 1519A and 1519B.
The only way we wouldnt let it happen would be if there were other teams on the wait list (which there were for a while, but as people cancelled, it worked itself out)
We offered a discount to teams who brought 2 robots...1st robot full price, 2nd robot half price.
ATannahill
23-03-2009, 15:10
TNT (Tempest N' Tampa) will let you enter a pre-rookie team, like last year, or bring a second robot, I do not know about space restraints but we haven't done too much planning for it yet.
Corey Oostveen
23-03-2009, 15:26
The WMRI (West Michigan Robotics Invitational) allows pre-rookie teams to compete and I am sure that there would be no problem with having your team 'divided' and use two robots, get more kids involved that way!
Team 904 Creston was gracious enough to lend us their practice robot to compete with and we ended up doing really well!
Thanks 904!
http://www.wmri.net
The website is not updated yet but I am sure it will be shortly.
Also, forgot to mention WMRI was a BLAST!!!! Very well run and a great time for all who attended
Corey
Akash Rastogi
23-03-2009, 15:28
Again, I meant bringing in a second robot for a group of your own students to play with. Not a pre-rookie.
Again, I meant bringing in a second robot for a group of your own students to play with. Not a pre-rookie.
That's what I meant for Ruckus. We did that in 2005 with 378's robot. They didn't want to come but they loaned us their robot and we gave it to some kids on 340 to play with.
JonellGregor
23-03-2009, 15:34
Again, I meant bringing in a second robot for a group of your own students to play with. Not a pre-rookie.
I really don't think many off-season regionals would allow it. Wouldn't some poeple complain and say it's unfair? I know that TnT probably doesn't allow a team to have two robots. I mean you would have to check for sure but I'm sure if you were allowed to, you would probably have to pay twice.
I really don't think many off-season regionals would allow it. Wouldn't some poeple complain and say it's unfair? I know that TnT probably doesn't allow a team to have two robots. I mean you would have to check for sure but I'm sure if you were allowed to, you would probably have to pay twice.
SCRRF did last year at the Fall Classic, if I recall correctly.
Unfair? Maybe. Is FIRST fair? If it were, probably half the teams out there would be illegal for building a practice robot.
artdutra04
23-03-2009, 20:34
I really don't think many off-season regionals would allow it. Wouldn't some poeple complain and say it's unfair? I know that TnT probably doesn't allow a team to have two robots. I mean you would have to check for sure but I'm sure if you were allowed to, you would probably have to pay twice.It is really unfair?
Is working hard throughout the entire year (meeting at least once per week) and having the students and mentors work really hard at car washes, can and bottle drives, and our BBQ concessions to earn the money to build a practice robot fair? Most definitely yes.
If a team works hard, earns the money to build two robots, and then wants to compete as two separate teams at a post-season event, then as long as they are willing to pay for two spots and are not depriving a team on a waitlist of a spot, then there's nothing wrong.
JonellGregor
23-03-2009, 20:43
It is really unfair?
Is working hard throughout the entire year (meeting at least once per week) and having the students and mentors work really hard at car washes, can and bottle drives, and our BBQ concessions to earn the money to build a practice robot fair? Most definitely yes.
If a team works hard, earns the money to build two robots, and then wants to compete as two separate teams at a post-season event, then as long as they are willing to pay for two spots and are not depriving a team on a waitlist of a spot, then there's nothing wrong.
I get what you're saying. I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I'm sure there are other teams that would. I'm sure off season regionals would let you do it, you would just have to check with them
ATannahill
23-03-2009, 20:50
I approve of it, but unfortunately neither I nor Jonell makes the decision, you should contact Brian Camp (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=11164) or Tom Filipek (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=19485) for the official answer.
BrendanB
23-03-2009, 21:13
This happened at Battlecry @ WPI (Speed Racer was a substitute for any team not able to show up in a match which worked out well) & I think both of 1519's bots were also there for the innaugural Bear Brawl (http://www.wnecrobotics.com/)off-season competition in Springfield MA @ Western New England College as well.
I know Speed Racer was at least, since they won Bear Brawl (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31918).
Speed Racer was the only attendant at Bear Brawl.
As stated before, 1519 took both Speed Racer and Fezzik to both Mayhem in Merrimack and to Bean Town where speed racer subbed in for a no show along for most of the weekend at Battlecry. We also took both to River Rage where Fezzik subbed in for a no show.
We have also brought two robots to Mayhem in Merrimack in 2006, 2007, and 2008.
Ken Streeter
24-03-2009, 09:17
Are there any offseasons that do/do not allow doing this? Entering a second robot either for use by a pre-rookie or just if we want to train several drivers at once. I know all about entering robots for pre-rookies.
It is completely up to the organizers of the off-season tournament as to whether or not participating teams are allowed to enter two robots. 1519 has been attending most of the New England off-season events for the past couple years. (We went to seven off-season events last year.) What we have tended to observe is the following:
* At tournaments which are typically over-subscribed (i.e. they have to turn away teams because the tournament is too popular), teams are not permitted to enter two robots, because allowing a team to enter two robots would require turning away another team. In New England, this is the case at WPI's BattleCry, which is perennially over-subscribed. At last year's BattleCry, we brought our hurdling robot (Fezzik) as our primary entry, and brought along "Speed Racer" as a substitute for any teams which weren't able to compete in a given match. (I could picture such a "substitute robot" option for non-show teams being very important in Lunacy off-season events!)
* At tournaments which are typically under-subscribed (i.e. they are working hard to get enough teams to fill out a 24-team competition schedule), participating teams would usually be encouraged to bring a second robot which they could run free of charge. We have done this for a few years. Other New England teams which often bring a 2nd bot include teams 40, 173, and 549.
* At tournaments which fall in between the above extremes, 2nd robots are usually permitted but need to register at either full price or a reduced price. We entered two robots last year at "Beantown Blitz" in Boston, "Mayhem in Merrimack" in Merrimack, NH, and "River Rage" in Manchester, NH.
We really like fielding two robots during the offseason events for a whole bunch of reasons:
* This gives *everybody* on the team that wants to drive an opportunity to do so. Last year at one of the offseason events, we had a different driver for Speed Racer for all of the qualification rounds. I think everybody should have a chance to drive the robot! It's a lot of fun to drive the robot on the field, and it is helpful for everybody to understand just how demanding the task can be! Our policy for the offseason events is to give everybody on the team at least one opportunity to fill any of the team roles (drive team, human player, pit crew, scout, etc.)
* Building a 2nd robot gives more students a chance to be involved. For 2008, our 2 robots were the separated configurations of our original "dual-config robot", but in 2006 and 2007, we actually built new robot designs as the 2nd robots for the offseason. The construction of these robots occurred in the offseason, when build schedules are relaxed and there is an opportunity to do more training of the new students on the team. These are valuable opportunities for more people to be involved with all aspects of the robot design, fabrication, assembly, and maintenance.
* Entering a 2nd robot allows some interesting intra-team matchups, whether it be with the two robot designs being against each other (we had quite a few "Fezzik" vs "Speed Racer" matches last year) or even with the two robots being together on the same alliance!
In sum, fielding a 2nd robot in the offseason can be a very fruitful endeavor, even though it does take a fair bit of extra work!
Best of all, the offseason provides fantastic "bang for the buck" in getting as many students as possible to participate directly on all of the team roles!
Josh Goodman
24-03-2009, 09:29
Considering the Rah Cha Cha Ruckus is struggling to make it to 24 teams (haven't got there yet) we would encourage teams to enter two robots in a heartbeat so long as you pay for it.
Lies. We had 24 teams in 2008. Didn't we? :confused:
Alan Anderson
24-03-2009, 10:04
IRI at one point was accepting pre-rookies. I'm not really sure if they still do or how it works.
It's almost guaranteed that IRI will have to turn away perfectly good veterans again this year, just because there won't be room for everyone who deserves to compete.
The pre-rookie invitations at IRI last year were for play separate from the regular competition, on the TechnoKats' practice field set up in the pit area. I think the intent was to have at least six of them present, using veteran teams' spare robots, so they could have full Overdrive matches.
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