View Full Version : 2009 Greater Toronto Regional
It has been confirmed that Discovery Channel will be webcasting the GTR regional. It will be an interactive webcast that will have interviews with teams at the event. The info is on the Discovery Channel Canada website found here (http://www.discoverychannel.ca/article.aspx?aid=15217). When we get the URL for the webcast I will post it here. I have also asked that it be available to everyone, not just CAnada and was told that they would.
I would like to give a big thanks to Discovery Channel for all that they have done in the past and this year.
despite my team's attendance at the event, and my own attendance at the event, i will likely be watching much of friday on the webcast, as i have to be back in Whitby for a project presentation at my school :(
GTR is always a fantastic regional to attend or watch.
Steve, will I need any sort of Metric to English conversion codecs or patches to view the stream? ;)
Mark Rozitis
22-03-2009, 20:49
There is also a good chance that on at least the Thursday and Friday CP24 with former OPP SGT Cam Wolley might be in attendance and live from the event/pits, that's of course assuming he can talk his bosses into allowing him to have that much fun while on the job :)
Cam is the safety guy at CP4 so it's quite likely they may let him play....hopefully not with any of the robots though :ahh:
Nice thing about the Hershy centre is from the doors you are line of sight to the CN tower for microwave hit or COFDM/mini-microwave hit.
It has been confirmed that Discovery Channel will be webcasting the GTR regional. It will be an interactive webcast that will have interviews with teams at the event. The info is on the Discovery Channel Canada website found here (http://www.discoverychannel.ca/article.aspx?aid=15217). When we get the URL for the webcast I will post it here. I have also asked that it be available to everyone, not just CAnada and was told that they would.
I would like to give a big thanks to Discovery Channel for all that they have done in the past and this year.
I had a source confirm today that the 2009 GTR will be webcast by Discovery Channel Canada via http://www.discoverychannel.ca
The exact URL of the webcast will be confirmed shortly!
cool... Probably this is true as that daily planet guy usually comes.. Jay something lol
I was informed late today that there won't be interviews like last year.
Zuhaib Ali
23-03-2009, 23:34
cool... Probably this is true as that daily planet guy usually comes.. Jay something lol
Jay Triano. Come on, how do you forget his name? :ahh: This guy is hero!
Tristan Lall
23-03-2009, 23:41
Jay Triano. Come on, how do you forget his name? :ahh: This guy is hero!A basketball hero.
You mean Jay Ingram, science hero.
Zuhaib Ali
24-03-2009, 00:03
A basketball hero.
You mean Jay Ingram, science hero.
Omg, that was the biggest blooper of my life on CD. Sorry. And the funny thing is that i was talking about Jay Ingram with my brother when i made that post. I'm just tired.
P.S. I wouldn't say Jay Triano is really a basketball hero. ;)
cpeister
24-03-2009, 21:14
I was informed late today that there won't be interviews like last year.
is there a reason for this?
is there a reason for this?
probably a big burden on them and they just dont need to deal with it... Anyones guess.
No reason given but there have been cutbacks everywhere so that may be the reason.
GTR will be webcast at the following link!
http://www.discoverychannel.ca/first
Mark Rozitis
25-03-2009, 06:00
No reason given but there have been cutbacks everywhere so that may be the reason.
I think you're bang on with that theory, all of the media have had at least three rounds of major layoffs, I'm next if there is another round and there just aren't the bodies around anymore.
All the editorial assistants (EA's) are gone, cameras are working longer shifts, overtime gone. Morning and noon news cancelled and other shows gone.
I've gone from not being able to having to park on the street as our lot was full in august to a very empty parking lot these days, to having no back-up when monitoring all the scanners for breaking news on the road and of course still getting blamed for anything I miss :)
It will be good to see some media show up to the GTR, there's not that many of us left.
M
From the Hershey Center - The pits are as quiet as can be, only the sound of a hockey game in the next arena. It seems that all robots are present and accounted for, the arena is set and almost all have gone home for a sleep. See you all tomorrow as we prepare to kick off FIRST'S best regional, GTR.
Zuhaib Ali
25-03-2009, 20:57
Btw, Team 188 is willing to exchange its scouting database with other teams at GTR. If you are interested and will have a reasonable amount of data compiled, then come talk to our head scout sometime tommorrow or friday. Team 188 would prefer to make the exchange after the awards ceremony on Friday. We have 12 people scouting matches, 6 for robot and 6 for human player. If you'd like a look at our new database ask for the head scout. Our head scout will mainly be at the stands and if your lucky, you can find him in the pits strategizing. Ask for Zuhaib and if that's too hard, Zboy. OR if you are aware of Shawn Lim (team 188's coach) you may talk to him. Please approach us as soon as possible.
Best of luck teams!
cool breeze
27-03-2009, 09:26
It has been confirmed that Discovery Channel will be webcasting the GTR regional. It will be an interactive webcast that will have interviews with teams at the event. The info is on the Discovery Channel Canada website found here (http://www.discoverychannel.ca/article.aspx?aid=15217). When we get the URL for the webcast I will post it here. I have also asked that it be available to everyone, not just CAnada and was told that they would.
I would like to give a big thanks to Discovery Channel for all that they have done in the past and this year.
I am trying to view the telecast, cna anyone else view the telecast or is it just being blocked at my work site.
I am trying to view the telecast, cna anyone else view the telecast or is it just being blocked at my work site.
Took me quite awhile to find the actual live cast, but it is working fine for me in Waterloo, ON.
Though I notice that FRC-spy doesn't seem to be getting GTR.
Edit: Here's the direct link: http://www.discoverychannel.ca/first/player.html
Just for fun, here are the OPR match predictions as of Q55. These are usually about 60% accurate, aka marginally better than flipping a coin. Don't take the scores too seriously, they're just the sum of each alliance's OPRs, and are mainly an indication of whether a match will be close or a blowout. And of course, this doesn't take into account teams improving their strategies or robots.
Q56: Blue (2809, 1114, 2198) beats red (1310, 1241, 919) 94-51
Q57: Red (1404, 1325, 2626) beats blue (1559, 1535, 1141) 53-43
Q58: Red (2013, 1846, 2185) beats blue (1503, 1518, 2634) 44-38
Q59: Blue (677, 865, 772) beats red (3117, 1246, 1815) 55-4
Q60: Blue (2935, 2852, 2386) beats red (886, 854, 2625) 80-63
Q61: Blue (1605, 1244, 1514) beats red (1241, 2076, 188) 67-66
Q62: Blue (2505, 1404, 1114) beats red (1558, 2994, 1325) 91-29
Q63: Red (1559, 1310, 1219) beats blue (2361, 1053, 2185) 49-35
Q64: Blue (3117, 1835, 610) beats red (2200, 1246, 1141) 60-47
Q65: Blue (919, 1482, 907) beats red (2013, 1815, 2626) 38-25
Q66: Blue (1547, 1305, 677) beats red (2670, 1518, 2198) 47-37
Q67: Blue (1126, 2056, 1312) beats red (1846, 2166, 2809) 86-60
Q68: Blue (865, 1075, 1006) beats red (1535, 771, 1503) 67-57
Q69: Blue (2634, 781, 1114) beats red (1334, 843, 772) 68-38
Q70: Blue (1310, 2505, 2013) beats red (1514, 1835, 1404) 57-56
Q71: Blue (188, 919, 854) beats red (1518, 2994, 3117) 86-30
Q72: Red (2670, 886, 1053) beats blue (1241, 1482, 1246) 19-8
Q73: Blue (2056, 2200, 2386) beats red (1605, 2198, 2185) 119-80
Q74: Red (781, 1334, 1535) beats blue (1815, 1846, 2935) 57-34
Q75: Blue (610, 2626, 1006) beats red (2361, 2809, 1547) 73-50
Q76: Blue (1219, 907, 2852) beats red (677, 2634, 1075) 66-52
Q77: Red (1141, 1244, 1312) beats blue (843, 1558, 2625) 56-27
Q78: Red (771, 772, 1126) beats blue (1559, 2076, 1503) 70-36
Q79: Red (1305, 2166, 2013) beats blue (865, 1325, 854) 52-41
W L T QP RS MP
0 Ranking 2386 8 0 0 16 52 119
1 Ranking 2056 8 0 0 16 49 119
2 Ranking 1219 6 2 0 12 49 76
3 Ranking 1006 6 2 0 12 47 93
4 Ranking 2505 6 2 0 12 46 91
5 Ranking 2852 6 2 0 12 46 80
6 Ranking 854 6 3 0 12 46 86
7 Ranking 610 6 2 0 12 46 109
8 Ranking 1114 6 2 0 12 44 94
9 Ranking 1605 6 2 0 12 41 84
10 Ranking 1310 6 2 0 12 37 69
11 Ranking 188 5 3 0 10 54 95
12 Ranking 1305 5 3 0 10 51 86
13 Ranking 1075 5 3 0 10 50 85
14 Ranking 1404 5 3 0 10 50 91
15 Ranking 919 5 3 0 10 49 86
16 Ranking 2809 5 3 0 10 47 94
17 Ranking 2013 5 4 0 10 45 70
18 Ranking 886 5 3 0 10 43 75
19 Ranking 1334 5 3 0 10 39 95
20 Ranking 1547 5 3 0 10 35 72
21 Ranking 1325 5 3 0 10 34 95
22 Ranking 1126 4 4 0 8 54 93
23 Ranking 2200 4 4 0 8 51 119
24 Ranking 1244 4 4 0 8 48 98
25 Ranking 2935 4 4 0 8 46 82
26 Ranking 1535 4 4 0 8 46 68
27 Ranking 2166 4 4 0 8 44 81
28 Ranking 2185 4 4 0 8 44 88
29 Ranking 781 4 4 0 8 43 98
30 Ranking 1835 4 4 0 8 43 70
31 Ranking 907 4 4 0 8 40 109
32 Ranking 677 4 4 0 8 39 64
33 Ranking 1141 4 4 0 8 38 82
34 Ranking 1482 4 4 0 8 32 88
35 Ranking 3117 4 4 0 8 28 80
36 Ranking 772 3 5 0 6 48 80
37 Ranking 2625 3 5 0 6 47 80
38 Ranking 1846 3 5 0 6 44 66
39 Ranking 2198 3 5 0 6 44 94
40 Ranking 1514 3 5 0 6 44 90
41 Ranking 1503 3 5 0 6 42 76
42 Ranking 1559 3 5 0 6 41 72
43 Ranking 2361 3 5 0 6 40 84
44 Ranking 2076 3 5 0 6 40 66
45 Ranking 1312 3 5 0 6 38 86
46 Ranking 771 3 5 0 6 38 70
47 Ranking 865 3 5 0 6 36 67
48 Ranking 1518 3 5 0 6 36 54
49 Ranking 2670 3 5 0 6 34 56
50 Ranking 1241 2 6 0 4 50 86
51 Ranking 2626 2 6 0 4 47 76
52 Ranking 2994 2 6 0 4 40 81
53 Ranking 1053 2 6 0 4 38 85
54 Ranking 2634 2 6 0 4 37 68
55 Ranking 1815 2 6 0 4 30 50
56 Ranking 843 1 7 0 2 41 66
57 Ranking 1558 1 7 0 2 34 70
58 Ranking 1246 0 8 0 0 30 68
Edit: 1 for 3 so far, this prediction is ridiculously bad.
I've been watching regionals online this weekend. I've seen about seven today, but of course, GTR is of most interest, being the closest to home and having many friends there. (188, 1126, 1503, etc.) It's pretty cool seeing Karthik announcing again too.
But, having been to three regionals this year and watched so many online, I just have to comment that GTR has the best music!
Good luck to everyone. I'll be watching tomorrow, as I'm sure many more will be. I'm looking forward to seeing some great play!
Al Gritzmacher
I totally agree with you Doc. The music at GTR is so much better than any other event. I didn't think it was that great originally, and then Bond came on and I declared it best ever... haha.
Can anyone find a loophole to ban Cotton Eyed Joe, Sandstorm, and Soulja Boy from regionals for interfering with the vision system or something?
I've been to five regionals and my nod for best music goes to Philli (the Deejay was working the night before at a club and put his club playlist on by mistake. I asked him if he could play it again. It didn't sound so dated like FIRSTs is).
Mark Rozitis
27-03-2009, 23:16
I've been to five regionals and my nod for best music goes to Philli (the Deejay was working the night before at a club and put his club playlist on by mistake. I asked him if he could play it again. It didn't sound so dated like FIRSTs is).
Actually I like the music they play at GTR, sure some of it is older/classic but it's quite the mix and it's good music. Of course I'm listening to it twice as loud in my earphones off my wireless from the camera and I can't believe some of the songs they played but it was so much fun hearing them.
The DJ is phenomenal, it's like he constantly feels the pulse of the event and chooses the right song at the right time....almost.
I can only expect the music to be much louder and more energized Saturday during the finals.
mark
Nawaid Ladak
28-03-2009, 00:44
I really enjoy the music the DJ does at Waterloo/GTR (same DJ if im correct). It's a shame he's getting paid, because if he wasn't, i'd be the first to say he deserves a Regional Outstanding Volunteer Award a few years down the road
I've never gone to a Canadian regional, but yet, i find myself watching them, not because of the matches (there were many other great regionals on this weekend... not taking anything away from GTR). but the music during the break helped me be more productive at work (i had the webcast on in the background while doing my work, so i could "listen" to the matches)
The webcast currently crashes every single browser on my machine, it crashes windows media player if I play it outside of the browser, and it also crashes all the browsers and media players on my other computer.
This is running Windows XP.
This behavior started about 15 minutes ago.
The webcast currently crashes every single browser on my machine, it crashes windows media player if I play it outside of the browser, and it also crashes all the browsers and media players on my other computer.
This is running Windows XP.
This behavior started about 15 minutes ago.
The internet has crashed on me for the second time this weekend. I am trying to get it back up. All of the DSL's here ha e the same problem.
cool breeze
28-03-2009, 12:19
Does anyone have a status on the alliance selections?
darkember
28-03-2009, 12:30
There are still 3 matches to go based on http://www2.usfirst.org/2009comp/events/ON/matchresults.html
cool breeze
28-03-2009, 12:38
There are still 3 matches to go based on http://www2.usfirst.org/2009comp/events/ON/matchresults.html
It's been that way for at least a half hour ;)
darkember
28-03-2009, 13:40
Does anyone know whats happening right now? The scores havent changed in a few hours.
who's in the finals, the webcast is really distorted
darkember
28-03-2009, 15:08
The match results havent been updated yet so im not sure either.
PatrickN
28-03-2009, 15:13
2056/1114/2185 vs 188/610/1305 in the finals
astephen68
28-03-2009, 16:24
The winning Alliance is: 2056/1114/2185
astephen68
28-03-2009, 16:26
Congrats to all three teams and to the finalists.
astephen68
28-03-2009, 16:30
Congratulations to 1114 simbotics on winning the Chairmens award
Congratulations to 2056/1114/2185 on their victory, and 2056 on their record-setting 6th-in-a-row win. I'm kind of disappointed that that ref's call in the 2nd match had to happen as a spectator, because the finals matches were so close and so well played, it was tragic that there couldn't be three played full tilt. I really hope 188 got a warning that the ref was going to block them from re-entering if they weren't punctual. Their robot was nearly on the field when the 6 minute mark happened, I don't think I've seen a timeout be enforced quite so stringently.
Though afterward (and maybe they tried this, I think I saw them score a supercell on themselves) I realized that if 188/610/1305 had been really sneaky, they could have tried to score on each other as hard as possible to ensure a double-supercell removal against red in the next match. This would have prevented red from having the supercell that decided the third match.
UberChar
28-03-2009, 17:34
what was that timeout for? i wonder what team 188 was up to when they didn't show up for the 2nd final match? my team was saying they were trying to purposely trying to get penalties so they would have the super cell's removed?
congratulations to the winners of the regional
what was that timeout for? i wonder what team 188 was up to when they didn't show up for the 2nd final match? my team was saying they were trying to purposely trying to get penalties so they would have the super cell's removed?
Not so much a penalty, but the smartest thing for the blue alliance to have done would have been to lose so badly that the red alliance would incur a double-G13 penalty and lose all their supercells in the next match. Since they were almost certain to lose the 2nd finals match without 188, they needed to lose it so badly that it hurt the red alliance in the next match. Unfortunately, I'm sure they thought 188 was going to play with them until about 60 seconds before the match, so they probably wouldn't have had much strategizing time to deal with their loss.
In retrospect, if they had caused the red alliance to be supercell-less in the 3rd match, they might have won, since the last match was decided by a supercell.
As for what 188 was doing when they didn't show up: they were fixing the robot, and they very nearly finished in time. When they made the announcement that 188 wasn't going to play the match, 188's robot was sitting at the side of the field. There was actually a BIG boo when they announced 188 wasn't going to play, I couldn't believe it.
188 wasn't doing anything sneaky. They actually expected to be on the field and we're very upset when they weren't allowed on the field.
It was a very ugly and unfortunate situation.
This really upset me. I'm fairly certain I've never seen a timeout enforced with such ludicrous definity. Many regionals have been known to have mascots etc dancing on the playing field and run as much as 2 minutes OVER the timeout just to finish dancing before the teams got back on the field. 188 was at the field so soon before that I didnt even notice until Karthik announced they wouldn't be on the field. It was quite evident that the entirety of the stadium DIDNT want to see 188 sit the match out.
I can't help but wonder... *puts on flame shield* if there wasnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias in the decision. 1114/2056/2185 were down a match, and at least 1, and i think more than 1 of the referees have ties to 1114. I'm sure people will accuse me of being un-GP for this comment, but its an issue I've thought of before with having refs who have ties to teams. I don't know what the answer is... it's difficult to be completely unbiased, but it would also be hard for FIRST to find qualified enough referees willing to do the job, who don't have ties to any team. I know this sounds like I'm harping on 1114 and their volunteers, and I'm really not trying to do that, they're great people and I'm happy to compete with them.
The second part I find really questionable is the scoring in Finals match 2. RT Scoring at the end of the match (as i recall) said 84-10. I had watched 188's human player throwing balls into 1305's trailer right from the start and figured out what they were doing. I even watched 188's human player score a super cell into 1305's trailer. Final score came in at 119-48. I certainly didnt see 48 points worth of scoring on the blue alliance. I can't say for sure it didnt happen, until I review video of it. If 188/610/1305 HAD made the double G14, 1114/2056/2185 wouldn't have had the super cell that won finals match 3.
The other issue I've noticed with Lunacy is the way field reset and the final tally of the rocks is done. It seems very haphazard and I'm sure at some point theres been mistakes made in the counting. When 3 people are removing balls from a trailer with little-to-no communication between them, how can they possibly get an accurate count? I don't fault any particular person on this one, its just something I've noticed. The volunteers all do a great job and should be commended for their service to the community.
I am on team 188 and I will tell you right now that there was in NO way any bias on the call. In fact the head ref that made the call was a former 188 team member. I was as upset as any but I have to say that the head ref made the right call. As for the reason of Team 188 calling the time out and being late I have no inside knowledge as I try to be removed from the team while I am a volunteer.
This final was well played, tough and exciting. Kudos go to the #1 alliance as they were great competitors and gracious winners. I for one hold no ill feelings against anyone at the competition and I still say that it is the best in FIRST.
As for the webcast and scoring issues, there was a major DSL crash in the Mississauga area. On Thursday the system went down for 10 hours or so and affected about 800 users. Todays failure was worse and there were more than 8000 users affected. I did my best to escalate the situation as the company I work for donated the services. Unfortunately this affected the webcast and the scoring update, however try as I might, it was out of my hands.
...Thanks Steve. I feel better knowing the head ref is 188 Alum. GTR is, and always has been, my favorite FRC event, and its always very well run. I haven't ever really noticed many bad calls at Waterloo or GTR as far as the reffing goes, I've never seen anything in the Canadian regionals like whats happened at some of the regionals south of the border.
As a Side Note: Anyone know if we're going to be seeing the videos from GTR posted to TBA or anything? I really wanna see Finals 2 again.
EDIT: I think this is the end of our Official Season, I'll be watching the webcasts of Championships (can 1114 join the elite back-to-back championship club which currently consists only of team 71?, can 2056 win championship? we'll have to wait and see...), and I'll see you all at Kettering Kickoff in september, and hopefully at Brunswick Eruption if I can make it down there.
I can't help but wonder... *puts on flame shield* if there wasnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias in the decision. 1114/2056/2185 were down a match, and at least 1, and i think more than 1 of the referees have ties to 1114. I'm sure people will accuse me of being un-GP for this comment, but its an issue I've thought of before with having refs who have ties to teams. I don't know what the answer is... it's difficult to be completely unbiased, but it would also be hard for FIRST to find qualified enough referees willing to do the job, who don't have ties to any team. I know this sounds like I'm harping on 1114 and their volunteers, and I'm really not trying to do that, they're great people and I'm happy to compete with them.
I'm almost speechless right now. You're seriously accusing a WFFA winner, former head referee at many regionals and one of the people with the most integrity I have ever met of being biased? He was not even supposed to volunteer this weekend, and graciously stepped in, leaving his team shorthanded, when one of the referees fell ill. This is the person you're accusing of being biased?
Three of the referees on the field has ties to 188. Including the one who also had ties to 1114. The head referee was on 188 in high school.
The decision was NOT made or influenced in any way by the referee with ties to 1114. The decision was made by the head referee (who had ties to 188) and the field supervisor, who had ties to NO team.
It's incredible to me that you are okay with just accusing a volunteer of being biased and influencing a match to that extent in a public forum without knowing any of the facts.
This really upset me. I'm fairly certain I've never seen a timeout enforced with such ludicrous definity. Many regionals have been known to have mascots etc dancing on the playing field and run as much as 2 minutes OVER the timeout just to finish dancing before the teams got back on the field. 188 was at the field so soon before that I didnt even notice until Karthik announced they wouldn't be on the field. It was quite evident that the entirety of the stadium DIDNT want to see 188 sit the match out.
This exact situation happened at GTR in the semifinals last year. 188 was on the alliance that benefited from a 3 on 1 situation. They should know better. The rules are the rules, and this was a 100% correct interpretation.
I was also completely appalled at the boos that went up when the decision was announced. I thought I was at a FIRST event, where values of gracious professionalism were espoused. I thought there was no place for booing at a FIRST event. I guess I was wrong.
To clarify: This was not a smattering of boos. This was at least half of the stadium, booing the head referee. It was incredibly disconcerting and dismaying.
yea it was truly saddening... I thought we were very GP at least we did try... I also didn't really understand the booing though for sure... As Kate said that was really un GP and really unexpected...
But on another note, thanks to teams 2056 and 1114 for a great win...
See you guys in Atlanta!
XaulZan11
28-03-2009, 22:27
I'm almost speechless right now. You're seriously accusing a WFFA winner, former head referee at many regionals and one of the people with the most integrity I have ever met of being biased? He was not even supposed to volunteer this weekend, and graciously stepped in, leaving his team shorthanded, when one of the referees fell ill. This is the person you're accusing of being biased?
In his defense, he has a point. People are biased. Everyone. As much as you can deny it or wish it doesn't exist, being unconciously biased happens. I don't think 1075Guy is saying he conciously decided to help out 1114 and the red alliance. Learning that he was once on 188, maybe he even overcompensated his bias. I'm not saying I agree with 1075Guy's decision to accuse someone on a public forum without knowing all the facts, though.
Anyway, congrats to the winners and 1114 for the RCA.
EDIT: Just to clarify my post, I wasn't at the event nor do I know who any of the refs or other volunteers were. Just so people don't misunderstand my post, I'm not saying the refs were biased or not, just pointing out that people, in general, are biased.
Pat Fairbank
28-03-2009, 23:09
Here are some photos (http://picasaweb.google.com/patfair/GreaterTorontoRegional2009) I took at GTR 2009.
Jonathan Norris
28-03-2009, 23:09
Wow... What an event!! I am so supremely proud of how the rookie students on my team performed this weekend. From the moment they walked into the pits on Thursday they were not phased for one second by the competition, they competed like we've been doing this for 10 years. They showed the judges all the hard work they've done throughout the season, and showed them that they get FIRST. I am very proud of for them to receive the Rookie All-Star Award, and get the chance to compete in Atlanta. Thanks again to our alliance partners 1219 and 2166, you two were a pleasure to work with.
To a team that has been doing this for 10 years, 610... you guys are back!! To see Crescent back in the finals was the second best moment of my day. You really built an awesome robot and Josh did you ever know how to drive it, its the best driven robot i've seen all year. Too bad you aren't going to ATL, probably one of the best robots not going to Atlanta this year.
About what went down in the finals, for those who say the booing wasn't warranted... 188, 610, and 1305 had just pulled a big upset in the first match and emotions were running high. Then the silliness happens (don't know what else to call it...) of not letting 188 on the field for the second match when 610 didn't have a front roller.. boo's are going to fly. There should have been better communication on all fronts and that situation should never have happened. Congrats to the alliance for putting up a great fight in the third match, you almost had it.
1114... such a well deserved Chairman's award, just look at the quality of teams you have helped start: 1503, 2056, 2166, and now us 2809. That doesn't mention the million other things you have done for the FIRST community, you deserve a strong consideration for Championship Chairman's this year, I know first hand how much you deserve it.
To the rest of the Canadian teams and everyone involved with the event, I was most impressed this weekend with the comradery between the teams. The mutual respect we have for one another has really grown over the last couple years into a really strong community. I look forward to seeing a lot of you again in Atlanta.
I want to make it clear that I am not supporting the booing, but trying to explain why in a situation like this it is difficult to avoid. Yes in a perfect GP world the booing would never have happened, but we can take comfort that it didn't last for more then a couple seconds before people realized it was wrong. The situation was quickly explained to the crowd by Karthik that dampened the flames. Thank you to Sawn for explaining in detail why that situation happened.
About what went down in the finals, for those who say the booing wasn't warranted... 188, 610, and 1305 had just pulled a big upset in the first match and emotions were running high. Then the silliness happens (don't know what else to call it...) of not letting 188 on the field for the second match when 610 didn't have a front roller.. boo's are going to fly. There should have been better communication on all fronts and that situation should never have happened. Congrats to the alliance for putting up a great fight in the third match, you almost had it.
188 had ample warning that their timeout was about to expire. There was a countdown going on a screen in clear sight of their pit. They were warned three minutes before. They were warned one minute before. They had multiple queuers, field staff and even referees telling them they had to be on the field before their timeout ran out for the last 60 seconds of their timeout. Teams not being allowed on the field during elims has happened before at GTR, with 188 being involved in the match.
What I really take issue with is your comment that booing was to be expected. I thought that this was a program which took pride in never booing anyone, being supportive and gracious, being the opposite to what minor league sports are devolving into today.
I dont think that it's necessary that 'boos are going to fly.' Teams who truly understand gracious professionalism and have read the rules should never boo a call ever - especially not a legitimate one. It flies in the face of what I thought this program was supposed to be. We're talking about a volunteer who has dedicated a good chunk of his time to this program, getting booed for enforcing the rules. In my mind, that is completely inappropriate.
Deleted per request from johnnyo
first who are you? mind identifying your self a bit? And they missed it by a few seconds... they missed it. If we dont have rules what do we have?
Also you come here and say you booed? you should be ashamed of your self... If you know anything about first it is that we are GP to each other.
I wasn't at Toronto this weekend. Nor did I see what happened. But in my opinion, this has gotten blown a bit out of proportion. Don't rip people apart for having opinions around here. 1075 guy clearly did everything he could to explain that he wasn't accusing, just bringing up the idea. If he didn't know, then he has the right to inquire. He didn't come out and say "I bet it was because of this..." or "Is it really a coincidence that...?". It possibly wasn't something that needed to be brought to the public eye, but he should be respected none the less.
Johnnyo does raise some interesting points. Is there a reason to be upset with the situation? yes. Is there favoritism in the pits? yes, at any regional. He wasn't saying that everything was rigged, just that there is favoritism. I have no doubt that teams like 188 and 1114 see lots of attention; Largely because they are responsible for the existence of many of the teams in that same pit.
The booing is an interesting issue. It sucks that they missed the match by such a close margin. But fair is fair. It sucks. The people in the stands want to see the best alliance win. I'm a little disappointed that it happened... because in the end, the people running the show are making decisions that they think are right and fair. It makes the opposing alliance look like bad guys as well. There isn't anything to change about it, it happened. There is a little of spirit at an FRC event and we all have times where we make poor decisions or put our emotions a little too far out on our sleeves. Please be respecting of other people. It's okay to point out your disagreements, but in the end, if you are trying to make them feel like crap, you aren't doing anyone any good.
Having seen everything that happened in the Finals, can anyone comment on what happened between match 2 and match 3, I noticed the head ref talking to the #1 seed alliance captain, then to the mentor of 2056.
Was the #3 seed asking to use the #1 seeds timeout? Because that's what it looked like from the stands. Granted, its pure speculation
The other thing I wanted to comment on, was the, dare i say odd, way that 2056 asked 1114 to be their alliance partners, While not rude, our out of line by anyway, it seemed quite odd to ask a team to join their alliance in that manner.
- Bochek
yea i can comment on that. I believe that was on the field... Basically the head ref was telling us that we weren't allowed to have first winning advantage i think it was... Basically waiting for the other teams to place robots so we can see were we place...
As some people have come to my defense to say, I wasn't TRYING to say that I think the head ref, or any of the refs WERE displaying a bias. I was trying to bring up the issue that refs who have ties to teams are going to have a really hard time being truly unbiased. They are likely to either a) favor their team(s) or b) be unfairly HARD on their team(s) for fear that they would be accused of favoring their team(s).
Do I think either is what happened in this case? I don't know. Maybe, but that's not really what's important. The bigger question is, is there anything we can do to avoid having refs with ties to teams? I don't think so. The problem is that few people outside of FRC mentors/alums/etc fully understand the dynamic of an FRC match, and few would know the games as intimately. I think having refs who have no ties to an FRC team (and therefore likely know very little about the program) would lead to WORSE reffing than the potentially biased reffing from team-affiliated refs.
I think everyones emotions are a little raw on the issue because the regional could have played out VERY differently if that match had been run with 188 on the field, OR if 188 succeeded in their plan to make the #1 alliance triple their score. The blue alliance only lost the regional by 7 points. The super cell scored by 1114/2056/2185 made the difference.
Also please note: I am an individual. Please do NOT affiliate my views with any team(s) I might be affiliated with.
What happened in match two will live down in FIRST history to be sure and that's a shame because what happened in match one and three were two of the best matches I have seen this year in FIRST. Both alliances gave it their all and did everything strategically and ability wise to give the audience one amazing show. I'm still not 100% sure if I like this game or not (which is amazing considering I have been at a regional every week. Perhaps my lack of commitment to it is a sign I don't) but like every year even crappy games look great when played well by top level teams.
If that's the case then next week is gonna be amazing in Michigan(can we skip the practice and just let them do extra matches instead?).
Vikesrock
29-03-2009, 00:46
They had multiple queuers, field staff and even referees telling them they had to be on the field for the last 60 seconds of their timeout.
I am curious where this "rule" comes from? Is it in the rules and I'm missing it? Or perhaps the Q&A?
EDIT: As soon as I posted I realized I may have read this comment wrong. If it is intended that they had to be on the field a the 5 minute mark of their timeout I would be interested in seeing the source of that ruling. If it is intended that for the last 60 sec. of their timeout people were telling them to get on the field and they didn't make it then nevermind.
colin340
29-03-2009, 00:53
ok here i go
bias- there was none they were running a tight ship at GTR they, yes at some other regional they would have waited, but as i see it thats the way things should be done other wise things could get mega unfair and sloppy.i see it as a good, fair yet very hard decision
the booing- is was wrong bottom line very but the reason it got so bad is that is spread and people were booing before they could think about what they were doing. people are not naturally GP it take time and practice to hold back and not go along with the crowd a few people prolly started it and it just spread.
I was disappointed in the conduct of a team in the in the finals. Teams-if you have people who can't control them self's in the heat of the moment you need to be able to live with the damage they might do to your team rep!! or find a way too help them deal with the stress!!
I can't help but wonder... *puts on flame shield* if there wasnt at least a LITTLE bit of bias in the decision. 1114/2056/2185 were down a match, and at least 1, and i think more than 1 of the referees have ties to 1114.
If asked to highlight individuals within FIRST who define the word "integrity" I would immediately mention two names. One of those names is the person you are referencing. I can vouch that he is of the highest character, as I'm sure can hundreds of others.
Your allegations are so off base they are just humiliating. Just absolutely ridiculous.
No flame shield needed... you're just flat out 100% wrong.
d.courtney
29-03-2009, 01:23
What I really take issue with is your comment that booing was to be expected. I thought that this was a program which took pride in never booing anyone, being supportive and gracious, being the opposite to what minor league sports are devolving into today.
I dont think that it's necessary that 'boos are going to fly.' Teams who truly understand gracious professionalism and have read the rules should never boo a call ever - especially not a legitimate one. It flies in the face of what I thought this program was supposed to be. We're talking about a volunteer who has dedicated a good chunk of his time to this program, getting booed for enforcing the rules. In my mind, that is completely inappropriate.
I don't think Jonathan ever said he agreed with the booing, as far as I can tell he was explaining why it should only be expected given the circumstances. Do the circumstances make it right? No. I agree with him in the respect that when emotions run high and in the heat of the competition peoples judgement can be clouded, and to expect that 100% of the time, all teams are going to respond in a gracious manner is unrealistic. Gracious Professionalism is a fantastic standard to strive for and it is something that sets FIRST aside from minor league sports but we are human. No matter how much we all try we will continually fall short of every standard we set for ourselves, but that doesn't make the standard useless. We should be forgiving when the rare circumstances like this arise not condemn those involved in the booing.
Like Jonathan also said I believe that this was preventable, but I feel it was preventable for a different reason. I think it was preventable from the view point that FIRST needs to be consistent with this rule across regionals. I have watched many regionals, and attended many as well, and the difference to how the referees address the issue is vast. At some regionals it seems as long as if teams are making their way to the field when the buzzer goes they are ok. Other regionals it looks like the decision is in the opposing alliance's hands, where they are asked if they are willing to allow the robot unto the field or if they are willing to use their time out. And then there are regionals where like GTR if your robot is not on the field at the time of the buzzer, to bad. Its a hard to decide what the best rule would be, but the importance isn't so much where the line is drawn but rather that it is a consistent rule. Also if the rule was explained to the audience when someone takes a time out then there would not be booing in these cases (or at least much less booing).
I had noticed that too, (the handshaking) and was pretty sure it just got forgotten in all the craziness that was going on. As it turned out, it really wasnt a big deal, there was a third match and the handshakes got done. Karthik, Thanks for a massively fun regional as always. You ARE the most fun MC in FIRST.
JVN, I too know that the person in question is of the highest caliber, I wasn't trying to suggest any bias that may or may not have happened was intentional. People are biased. It happens to everyone, often subconsciously.
EDIT: In response to the post just above this one: I'm pretty sure there's a rule that was brought in saying that you can't have red and blue both take their timeout before the same match.
RE-EDIT: Also, why is it that people feel they must hide behind fake CD accounts (which are against the rules btw) when making controversial statements? Being afraid to speak your mind is so wrong. You must be elegant, and cautious in the way you word things, but why hide? I'm not afraid to stand up for what I think is right. There were a couple of times today where until I did a double take and realized I was wrong I was prepared to go down to the scoring table to defend teams I felt got scored wrong, and I didn't want any teams "losing" matches that they actually won.
FYI, FixFIRST, there is a rule preventing back-to-back timeouts. Red can't call a timeout if blue just did and vice versa. As I understand it, blue had a timeout already. Sorry, can't do that. <T19> In the elimination matches, each ALLIANCE will be allotted one TIMEOUT of up to 6 minutes. If an ALLIANCE wishes to call for a TIMEOUT, they must submit their TIMEOUT coupon to the Head Referee within two minutes of the Head Referee issuing the arena reset signal preceding their MATCH. When this occurs, the Time-out Clock will count down the six minutes starting with the expiration of the arena reset period. Both ALLIANCES will enjoy the complete 6-minute window. In the interest of tournament schedule, if an ALLIANCE completes their repairs before the Time-out Clock expires, the ALLIANCE CAPTAIN is encouraged to inform the Head Referee that they are ready to play and remit any time remaining in the TIMEOUT. If ALLIANCES are ready before the 6-minute window, the next MATCH will start. There are no cascading time-outs. An opposing ALLIANCE may not offer their unused TIMEOUT to their opponent.
Rich Kressly
29-03-2009, 01:40
I'm glad people "compete like crazy," but I'm not feeling the "treat each other well in the process" part from some folks here. I'm sure when Woodie reads this or it gets brought to his attention, he'll be pretty darn sad.
Accuse, speculate, and provide all of the innuendo you want. All, and I mean ALL of the WHINING I'm reading here points to two very obvious thoughts in my mind:
1. Some folks care way too much about the robots and "winning" a game. Acting poorly like this after the fact shows a tremendous lack of class.
2. Be careful about the reputation you're building for yourself in this thread and others like it (yeah, every year the finals at at least one regional lead to crap like I read here). Get over it, fast. Go change the culture. And next time something happens in your life that you get all emotional about in public like this remember the example you are SUPPOSED to be setting for the rest of the world.
namaste
1. Some folks care way too much about the robots and "winning" a game. Acting poorly like this after the fact shows a tremendous lack of class.
I agree with you Rich, some people DO care way too much about "winning". BUT, I think you will notice, well at least for me (i assume I'm one of the people you're speaking about) that the people raising the issues had no particular interest in the outcome of the matches.
Personally, I have no affiliation with any of the teams on either alliance in the finals. I just want to see fair matches, across the board. One of the biggest problems with the competition in its current form is the variation in the reffing from one regional to the next. Some of the more travelled teams I'm sure can attest to being able to get away with something at one regional, and then being penalized for it at another. This is less of a problem here in Canada for the bulk of the Canadian teams, as GTR and Waterloo share a HUGE portion of the staff. Since its the same people, they get run in very similar fashion. I just wish the REST of FIRST could be this good at consistency.
I think its only fair for teams to expect to show up and play the game that was defined to them in the rules. Some of the discrepancies have led to play styles in some games (08 SVR comes to mind, but I'm sure there's others) which if teams knew from the start that they would be called that way, might have built their bot very differently.
Shankar M
29-03-2009, 01:56
I feel like people are getting a little bit worked up over this finals match and it is overshadowing what was yet another incredible Greater Toronto Regional.
I think that the suggestions of bias in the decision-making processes of the volunteers (who helped to run an incredible event) are a little bit harsh. Many members of the volunteer staff on the field have connections at various levels with 188, just as many of them have connections with Team 1114 (and likely the other 4 teams on the field at that time).
I also think it is equally important that fingers are not pointed at teams over the events that transpired. The first alliance did attempt to call a timeout, but (as EricH mentions above) the rules disallow it. Once the calls were made, the alliance's hands were tied. They did what they could, and when they were out of options, they played their game, can we really fault them for that? (We dealt with a similar situation last year, when 2 of our opponents were not able to make it onto the field in time for the buzzer and were thus left off the field.) It was certainly an unfortunate event and left many people disappointed, but it is integral that we respect the decisions of the officiating crew. They simply followed the rules that they were to enforce. If we as a community have disagreements over what happened, constructive means are the best way to seek resolutions.
Good morning fellow FIRSTers!
It's 1:00am, only hours after the completion of the 2009 GTR; an event that I can honestly say has been one of the most AMAZING experiences of my life.
For those who do not know me, I am the field coach for Team 188, winner of the 2006 GTR WFFA, and was in the thick of everything that occurred this evening.
Before things get too out of hand in this thread, I would like to share my story with all of you this evening. Much of it is a blur, as things happen so quickly in the heat of the moment. In situations like this, information is often crossed-up, words are misinterpreted... and worse... rumours often spread.
I'd like to clear much of the air, and share with you what it was like to be in my shoes this evening. Much of this post is intensely personal, and while you may not agree with everything I did (even I don't always 100% agree with the things I do in retrospect... we all make mistakes), I ask that you please respect my actions, decisions, opinions and especially my mistakes.
After Finals 1
Our alliance had just pulled off the upset, and I was immediately informed by 610 that they had sustained damage to their front roller during the match. I was not surprised, as 610 had adjusted strategy mid-match to play hard defense as they saw an imbalance in points scored against us by 1114. 610's adjustment opened up the match for 1305 to deliver ECs and us to ultimately score a buzzer beating SC with our robot.
The Timeout
610 quickly informed 188 that they would need the timeout to start repairs. We approached the head ref and I asked "I'm giving you a heads-up to let you know we'll be presenting our time-out coupon at the last possible moment. Can you please confirm with us how long that is from now?" The head ref consulted with the FTA, and he returned saying that "well you're in luck, the last possible moment looks to be about 10 seconds from now."
I stood there and smiled to the head ref, and we counted down from 10 together with a bit of a chuckle.
Our alliance's time-out coupon was presented.
In hindsight, it seemed like we had to present our coupon and start our timeout a bit early, as I thought I recalled more time set was aside for field reset. In fact, we were being forced to present our timeout coupon before all our robots had even been taken off the field. But, I honestly did not know how much time had passed since the match had ended, nor how much time WAS alloted for field reset between matches. I also didn't know how many minutes before the next match started I needed to present the time-out coupon. I also did not know when the next match was supposed to start.
These were all mistakes on my part. As the alliance captain drive-team coach, you need to know all these rules backwards and forwards.
I headed back to the temporary pit area to check up to see what 610's status was. They were working HARD, efficiently, and you could see it was an amazing team effort. Unfortunately though, I was informed that the roller would not be available for our next match. 610's drive crew notified 188's strategy team, that since 610 adjusted to an effective defense role mid-match in Finals 1, and that 610 should get out there without the roller, and have 610 stick to defense right from the start of the match. Great call.
My Mistake
Here's the kicker for all you conspiracy theorists:
During this timeout period... I simply neglected to inform my own team of the time-out time constraints
There was nothing wrong with OUR robot. It was functioning just fine. It was in the pits, and our crew was doing our pre-match checks and battery changes. I informed 610 and 1305 exactly when we needed to be on the field.
I did not adequately inform my own pit crew!!!
At 60 seconds left in the timeout, I was in the pits, and exclaimed "All teams on the field NOW!"
1305 was already there, 610 packed up, and was out of the pits immediately, my own pit crew looked at me and said "WHAT?!"
And here's is where I must say this VERY clearly, and especially for students on my own team to understand FULLY where fault lies in this situation:
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS LIES SOLELY ON ME
Our pit crew and programmer did a wonderful job, but I was negligent in my effort to give them the information they needed to do their work. This was my job. I didn't do it.
I screwed up - end of discussion.
I owe my pit crew and programmers the biggest apology one can imagine. Imagine yourself being put into their situation, simply doing your job, having this happen, then having to answer the inevitable questions of: "What on earth were they doing in the pits on 188's robot?"
What were they doing? They were doing their jobs, and they were doing a darned fine job.
My screw up threw them under the bus.
I scrambled to grab the controls to hook them up to the driver station. The pit crew scrambled to get the robot back on to the field. I got to the driver station, seconds later, the robot was at the gate.
As I was connecting our controls, someone (I cannot recall who) told me that the refs weren't letting our robot on the field.
I had my 2008 GTR role-reversal flashback... when 1507 and 247 were kept off the field after a timeout just like this, and we played against them 3 vs 1.
I looked over at our pit crew and drive team by our robot. I let them down, and I was angry at my mistake.
I slammed my fist into the lexan - not a very common outward show of emotion on my part... but I did it not because I was angry at the ref's ruling, but at the magnitude of my own mistake, and the subsequent letdown in caused in our entire alliance.
The Head Ref
Before I continue, there's something you all need to know about myself and the Head Ref Fraser Allen. Fraser and I have known each other since 1998, when we were both high school student members on Team 188. We poured our blood sweat and tears together in the exact same way you and your team members are doing right now. There are 11 years of history in our friendship, and a deep amount of respect for each other. His dedication for the FIRST program is exceptional, and having said that:
The presence of any type of bias, real or perceived by me was NON-EXISTANT.
I have read posts here about bias and even over-compensation. I flat out DO NOT agree that either were factors at play. Please understand that a VERY large number of the volunteer force at Canadian regionals are 188 alumni. They take on influential roles as refs, inspectors, scorers, etc... etc... the list goes on. Fraser's association with 188 is no secret. Neither is Karthik's, neither is Steve Warren's, neither is Ian Mackenzie's, the list goes on.
Fraser made the right call - not because he was FORCED to enforce the rules by the letter of the law in order to not show any type of 188-bias. It was simply because he is an excellent head ref.
The FIRST community can do me a favour, and treat him nicely for making a tough decision, because ironically, I need to buy him dinner (at minimum) just to convince him to come back next year given the backlash that's brewing! That backlash needs to stop now. I'm not losing a valued friend and volunteer of the FIRST program over something like this.
Setting up Finals 2
It was no excuse time. Those who know me understand that I despise whining and complaining. Things needed to get done, and we needed to figure out what was the best thing to do to help our alliance. Throwing a tantrum to try and get out robot on the field would not have helped.
We had seconds before the match was about to start. I knew that an idle trailer was a HUGE disadvantage, and against a potent #1 alliance this WAS a sure loss when played 2 vs 3.
I apologized to both 610 and 1305 and said: "I'm extremely sorry guys, but I'm not giving you guys the chance to play these guys straight up 2 vs 3. We are going to try and force a double G14 for the next match. We are going to score on our own alliance... quietly."
I then told our own payload specialist on our side to continually score on our own alliance.
I ran across the field exclaiming to the refs, who REALLY wanted start the match "start the match, I'll take the penalty!" They waited.
Once at the other side, I told 610's payload specialist the same.
I wasn't able to tell 1305's payload specialist the same, but I was hoping it would be enough.
On my way back to our driver station, I bumped into Karthik, and exclaimed:
"I think the GDC is going to hear about this match... watch it carefully!"
It was so loud and chaotic, I was running, he was trying to do damage control as MC, and I'm pretty sure he didn't hear me at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure he probably thought he heard me insult his mother, and to watch out because I was coming for him and the rest of his family after the regional.
It was a gross misunderstanding, and no doubt we will laugh long and hard about this for years to come.
I don't know if there were comments targeted at Karthik about his reaction after this incident, but again, I implore you guys to calm down and understand the context in which all this occurred. If those comments were directed at me and my reaction regarding hitting the lexan, I'm fine with that. That was pretty tasteless, and it won't happen again.
Finals 2 Begins
And the moment is does, our corner payload specialists are silent. A usually productive autonomous is relegated to pretty much nothing. The match progresses, and my eyes are pinned to the scoreboard. Our score remains at 8 for a long period of time, and I begin to think how much I will be crucified in the FIRST community for pulling something like this, if we're actually successful.
2056/1114/2185's score continues to grow, and our score stays the same. Have they noticed? Not yet... Will they notice? Of course they will, the question is only whether they will notice and react in time.
And they do.
They begin to score on themselves frantically, but we have one last ace up our sleeve. 1305 has delivered an empty cell to our near payload specialist. He calmly exchanges it for an SC, and drains it into one of our own robots.
We don't get the double G14, but we get a single G14 for our final match at full-strength.
Strategy enthusiasts: Understand something very carefully here. 2056/1114/2185 won the GTR during THIS match... consider how avoiding the double G14 here affected how the end of Match 3 played out.
Now I know there will be a firestorm of differing opinions on how GP this strategy was. I won't even attempt to defend myself. It was a decision I made, and I unilaterally told my alliance partners to participate. Believe me, I have heard from SEVERAL people on my own team about the inappropriateness of this strategy, and they ALL are right. However I stood by my decision as a reflection of *MY* own choice regarding what I felt was in the best interests of our alliance at the time. It is not to be interpreted as what 188/610/1305 believe in as teams, especially with regards to their level GP. These are some of most gracious and professional teams I've ever had the pleasure of working with. The level of camaraderie was stellar, and I hope everyone who was watching got that impression, because that chemistry was there. Without it, we could have never done something this crazy or stupid.
Finals 3
I will have to leave this one for the video archives for you all to see for yourselves. It was an amazing match, with this game being played at an amazingly high level, with strong defense all around. We hung in there despite a "non-specific upper robot malfunction." I'm proud of the entire alliance, and I'm sure a series of huge thanks and congrats posts will be forthcoming. But until then, the biggest thanks to our alliance partners 610 and 1305 for battling throughout the eliminations. We weren't the favourites to win at first, but I think we convinced a lot of people as the matches went on. It was an honour for me to be able to work with such a fine group of people.
Although we were all disappointed we did not win this regional, we were glad to be a part of such an amazing alliance, and to be able to write a memorable chapter in FIRST lore.
You just can't make this stuff up!
Chris Fultz
29-03-2009, 07:44
Thank you for this detailed post.
I hope it quiets everyone who is speculating on what did or did not happen at the event and we can move on.
IntensifiedAmp
29-03-2009, 09:09
Thank you for clarifying that. Glad it's nothing spectical, and it was outright the truth : )
*Changes subject*
1219 had a LOT of fun playing at GTR. It was amazing and spectacular. This is the only year we have gone into the eliminations as an alliance captain at the Greater Toronto Regional. This is also the year I had the most fun with the game because of the low traction surface that allowed some very challenging defense.
Thank you to 2809 and 2166 for playing some very fun matches in the quarters. Although there were electrical problems, it was noones fault. (Random electrical issues can come and go). The penalties also seemed to cost a bit. But it was just plain out intense.
Thank you to 1305, and Gerry St. Dennis for helping us out at both the Waterloo and Greater Toronto Regionals in getting our to safety and completion.
Also thank you to Tristian Lall for helping us out at the Waterloo Regional to make sure we were ready to go as always.
So I guess this will be my last year as a student of this school, and hopefully next year, a new identification as a mentor of a team -- My team, a team, or a rookie team. FIRST will always be this fun -- I just love the intensity!
For those wondering who I am, I was the BASE driver at the Greater Toronto Regional (after 3rd Qual. match) because we had switched.
thanks man for that post... Hopefully people will stop speculating now that someone on the other side has come in and given some truth to the situation.
Rich Kressly
29-03-2009, 09:26
Namaste, Shankar and Shawn. Your display of sportsmanship, humility, leadership, and responsibility in the above posts is a model for all of us to follow.
My father taught me long ago that how we respond to adversity is what defines us as human beings. Let's all keep this definition in mind as we move forward to change a culture.
congrats 1114/2056/2185
188/610/1305 u guys played amazing
congrats 1114 on your RCA win
ps. does anyone have the pictures that were taken at the awards ceremony on both days?
IntensifiedAmp
29-03-2009, 09:45
Does anyone know when/where the GTR matches will be online?
congrats 1114/2056/2185
188/610/1305 u guys played amazing
congrats 1114 on your RCA win
ps. does anyone have the pictures that were taken at the awards ceremony on both days?
I have tons of photos of both days. I couldn't get them on 1DVD so I needed to put on 2. I will be talking to Karen Rosenthal and see what we can do to get to the teams.
Does anyone know when/where the GTR matches will be online?
They were not recorded by Discovery Channel so unless someone had a recorder or copied the stream I don't have any.
I have tons of photos of both days. I couldn't get them on 1DVD so I needed to put on 2. I will be talking to Karen Rosenthal and see what we can do to get to the teams.
thx steve! it will be wonderful if all teams could get the dvd!
J Flex 188
29-03-2009, 11:52
For those that don't know Shawn (soon to be Mr. Lim to his students), he is a person of the highest quality, calibre, respect, integrity, humility and plain old, good nature and character than any other person you can find in FIRST, or pretty much in the world at large. The fact that he put up such a detailed post at such an early hour when a firestorm was brewing and taking the blame himself attests to that. I first got to know him 5-6 years ago when he came back from university to mentor and when he was my drive team coach in 2004-2005. He's also been a boss, advisor and most of all a friend to me since those days.
The great thing about the GTR or CR as I still call it is that you run into alumni from various teams, but especially from 188 everywhere you go. The other great thing about the GTR is that these same alumni have spawned multiple other teams, including 1114, whose main mentors I can say have the same characteristics and mental attitude as Shawn.
I would just want to highlight one more thing for the CD community at large to know . As soon as the boos started to rain down, I saw a team member from 188 who had been a grade 9 student during my first year of university and helping 188 post-high school stand up and wave emphatically to all those around him, not on his own team, with a passionate look on his face to stop the booing immediately. That single moment should stop any and all speculation as to the reputation of 188 for respect for the game and what FIRST stands for. You may be able to teach the ideals of FIRST and of GP to everyone and anyone, but getting them to live by it, as some as said, may prove to be a more difficult task. But what I can safely say is that everyone on 188 does understand this and spreads it as best as they can.
This was a fantastic regional to attend and I sincerely hope this controversy dies down to a point where it is forgotten. It is not human nature to "act like a robot" and forget everything in the heat of the moment, behind the robot, there are human minds and faces and we have to let them cool off the same we let a robot's motors cool off after a hard set of matches as well. Congratulations go out to all alliances and all teams that participated in this regional!
PatrickN
29-03-2009, 11:55
For anyone who thinks there might be a little blind defending of the refs or who thinks they're being made out to be completely infallible I'll say this, I was on 188's drive team in the past and I've always felt that our alumni refs busted our butts just a little bit extra. Having said that, they've NEVER changed the outcome of any competition I was at and I don't think they changed the outcome of this one. I certainly don't think they've ever made a decision because of team number and really I'd consider it a good natured kind of ribbing I would chalk up to either A) Tough love or B) Making real certain they weren't favouring us.
Even before seeing his post I knew what happened after the match. With a veteran coach like Shawn Lim, the absolute MASTER of directing blame onto himself and away from a young drive team (seriously, talk to him and every loss in the past five years was his fault), I'm certain 188 will be hungrier than ever, not just at Atlanta, but next year during the build season, they'll work harder and learn more, which has got to be a good thing.
Very small discrepancies in philosophy are going to exist from ref to ref and it's simply part of the game. In the past, before the current crop of kids who actually know how to build a robot that stays intact, we would constantly squeeze extra seconds and minutes out to try and repair our broken robot. I never heard an opponent whining about that and we never got more than a ref/field crew repeating their directions to us. It's just part of the game and certainly another ref at another regional might have decided "Hey, they weren't trying to get a competitive advantage, I think I'll let them on since I think it's the 'right' thing to do". I'd consider that opinion to be totally valid, just like I consider this decision to be completely valid. Personally I kind of like watching Jordan hit that 20 footer, but I'd consider it a completely valid opinion if someone said they'd prefer seeing a clip of John Stockton ice a couple free throws and everyone mobbing Bryon Russell. Which leads nicely into my other, unrelated comment...
To Karthik: I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of your sports references are going over people's heads or going unnoticed by people too busy worrying about their robot, but not here buddy. I'm loving all of them, don't stop man.
To 188: In the past it seems like controversy only happens to stud robots, so take heart in that. Me, I like the controversy. It means... You're close. It means... You're ready. (Watch more NBA playoff games if you don't get that :P)
The Greater Toronto Regional: Where Karthik blatantly ripping off NBA ads happens.
Shawn,
It takes a lot of class, integrity and humility to make a post like that one. Thank you for letting everyone one know all the facts behind what happened. You are a true leader.
As for your strategy in Match 2, I think it was brilliant. You knew winning the match was highly unlikely, so you came up with a plan that gave your alliance the best chance of success in match number 3. I commend you for having the courage to try such a different strategy at a crucial time.
---
I'd like to apologize for forgetting to have the drive teams shake hands before finals match 2. There was a considerable amount of confusion before I walked on the field, and even more so when the booing hit. In the midst of all of this I simply forgot to do the handshakes. I sincerely apologize for forgetting this FIRST tradition.
---
Let's focus on everything amazing that happened at GTR this weekend. This regional overwhelmed me with the level of enthusiasm and passion of the students. I spoke to so many people who had such an inspiring level of excitement for FIRST. It's great no only to see that people "get it" but that they want to make other people "get it."
Special thanks and congratulations go out to:
Team 1535 - You've inspired me to get myself a t-shirt cannon!
Teams 1141 & 2200 - For showing everyone that a simple design coupled with smart strategy and dedicated people can be the recipe for a great robot.
Team 677 - As a fellow Buckeye it was great to see this spirited team from The Ohio State University. I had such a blast leading all those O-H-I-O chants.
Team 1126 - This was my first chance to interact closely with team. They really blew me way. From top to bottom they have an amazing program. I was especially impressed with their attention strategy. No wonder they've been so successful over the years. It was great having a chance to chat with Dante, Dylan, Matt Starke and the rest of this role model team.
Teams 188, 610 & 1305 - It was an honour to play an alliance as tough of yours in the final. You played a great mix of offense, defense and empty cells. Seeing the firepower of 188 & 610 was a sight to behold. Our alliance absolutely didn't want to play that match as a 3 on 2. All year long I've been impressed by the students on team 610. They're a great group of individuals who built an amazing robot. This is definitely one of the most underrated teams in FIRST. Team 188, you guys are just amazing. This team has grown so much this year and has shown it on and off the field. I've talked about the deadliness of their robot before, but when you add in the strategies that they were running it becomes that much more dynamic. Also to 188, thank you for taking the time to watch the 1114 Chairman's presentation and provide the valuable feedback that you did.
Teams 2056 & 2185 - This was really a fun alliance. Team 2185 earned their second regional victory of the season by playing some savy, hard nosed defense. As for 2056, I don't even know what to say. They have now won six consecutive regionals. That streak is the longest in the history of FIRST. We are talking about an unparalleled reign of dominance at the regional level. I've had a chance to spend more time with them this year than I have in the past, and this team blows me away. They have a group of students who absolutely love robots, their driveteam is definitely one of the best that I've seen. Tyler and Stan, you two have built a dynasty. Congratulations. Thank you for picking us.
Team 2809 - Rookie All-Stars!!! When you look at this team, it's nearly impossible to realize that they're rookies. They carry themselves like a team who's been around for years, role models to everyone who sees them in the pits, the stands and on the field. It's no wonder since they have a group of extremely dedicated and experienced FRC and FLL mentors. Petey, Jno, Michelle, Mike, Kate, Remi, Stu & Christine, the dedication of your students is a testament to the kind of people you are. I see a very bright future for 2809, hopefully starting with a Rookie All-Star award in Atlanta!
The Amazing GTR Volunteers - The group of volunteers at Toronto have been working this event for years. It's really a family like atmosphere and one that I love being a part of. Charles Offor did an amazing job in his full debut as a Game Announcer, and I can't wait to work with him again. Special thanks to Jeremy and Liz for coming up from Rochester to give us a hand.
Everyone who was part of 1114's RCA submission - I can't thank you enough. It's a great honor to earn such a distinguished award. It's overwhelming to see how far this team has come since 2003. Special thanks to 1114 students Candice, Matt & Scoot who were great ambassadors for the team this weekend.
I'm still blown away by the amazing things we saw at GTR this weekend. It was an inspiring weekend. I can't wait to be back in 2010!
The Greater Toronto Regional: Where Karthik blatantly ripping off NBA ads happens.
Come on Patrick, don't forget about me ripping off the Herb Brooks speech from "Miracle (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0349825/)". :)
PatrickN
29-03-2009, 13:02
Come on Patrick, don't forget about me ripping of the Herb Brooks speech from "Miracle (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0349825/)". :)
Unfortunately the webcast was seemingly constantly down so I only caught a grand total of about 5-10 minutes of the entire competition. Rest assured I would have appreciated that had I seen/heard it. I didn't even catch all of the what you said before the connection died but I had seen the original so many times that even substituting 1080p High Def with a choppy webcast and the combination of Kobe/KG with what appeared to be Muggsy Bogues/Earl Boykins I recognized it :D
Justin Montois
29-03-2009, 13:04
I'm not going to say much about the finals matches except to say I think the right call was made.
First of all, a huge thanks to Team 1126, SparX for being the most gracious hosts to me and instantly making me feel like I was part of the team. You guys are the best and I hope that if some of you travel with our team someday we can be half the hosts you guys were. Congrats on building another amazing robot and your Xerox Creativity Award. I love you guys!
Karthik and the rest of Team 1114, it was great to be able to talk to you for a little bit about your team and their Chairman's efforts. After talking with you and your Chairman's presenters about their presentation style and reading the board of your accomplishments, I knew you were going to win. Thanks for taking the time to talk with me and we are honored to have you presenting with us at Championship for the Chairman's Award. Oh and a side note, congrats on winning the regional as well! ;)
Congrats to The winning alliance and the finalists for putting on a great show and proving this game can be exciting to watch when the right robots and the right strategies are being played out.
Also, I can't say enough about the field crew. Staying on schedule ALL WEEKEND seemed only a dream after what went on when the bugs were still being worked out but you guys made it a reality and it really improved the quality of the event as a spectator. Great Job!
To everyone at GTR, this was my first time north of the border for a regional competition and I can't tell you how impressed I was at the spirit in that building. 1075, 1310 and all the other teams that made the atmosphere so great, thanks for making my first Canadian regional one to remember.
Oh by the way, if anyone wants a 1535 shirt, I think Karthik said something about one being atop the Hershey Centre press box..... ;)
Lil' Lavery
29-03-2009, 13:17
Shawn Lim's post gave me an error message I haven't seen before on Chief Delphi. You cannot give reputation to the same post twice.
Shawn, you have nothing to be ashamed of with that strategy, nor was it "un-GP." I'm sure a number of other teams had the same strategy tucked away somewhere in their playbook (I for one did).
Early in qualification matches at the Washington DC regional I spoke to my drive coach about using that exact method if we ended up against a combination of machines (*cough 45 and 234 cough*) that clearly outclassed our alliance. Upon seeing that exact match-up in the semi-finals, we knew it would not work in that particular situation (the #1 alliance did not rely on super cells, though they did incorporate them into their strategy), especially after being plastered in the first match when they were already carrying in a G14 penalty (also, the strategy doesn't work in match 2 if you're already down 1-0 :rolleyes: ).
You should never be ashamed of trying to harness the game dynamics to your advantage.
It's unfortunate what happened in the finals, but unfortunate things happen in life. I guarantee you that 2056, 1114, and 2185 didn't wish to win in such a "controversial" fashion, but their achievement should not be reduced because of it.
gr8dragon
29-03-2009, 13:51
Hi,
I (programmer for team 188) can't let Mr.Lim(Shawn) take all the blame for not making the field for Final match 2. In the pit during the timeout I was being persistent to change something that was totally not necessary. This caused some argument between the pit crew who tried to convince me to not bother. In all the talking we forgot to change the battery, and our electronics guy rode the cart to the gate changing the battery. We had ample time, warnings and no fixes to be made. So I felt guilty for letting Mr.Lim take the blame. Sorry to everyone on the team. Especially Leo and Karsin for not listening to you guys.
On my way back to our driver station, I bumped into Karthik, and exclaimed:
"I think the GDC is going to hear about this match... watch it carefully!"
It was so loud and chaotic, I was running, he was trying to do damage control as MC, and I'm pretty sure he didn't hear me at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure he probably thought he heard me insult his mother, and to watch out because I was coming for him and the rest of his family after the regional.
It was a gross misunderstanding, and no doubt we will laugh long and hard about this for years to come.
I don't know if there were comments targeted at Karthik about his reaction after this incident, but again, I implore you guys to calm down and understand the context in which all this occurred. If those comments were directed at me and my reaction regarding hitting the lexan, I'm fine with that. That was pretty tasteless, and it won't happen again.
Thank you for posting this. I saw this "shove" into Karthik and I could not believe what I saw from a team that I look up to. Thanks for the explanation.
Thank you for posting this. I saw this "shove" into Karthik and I could not believe what I saw from a team that I look up to. Thanks for the explanation.
Yup, I want to make this very clear for everyone. Before Finals Match 2, Shawn ran past me and tried to get my attention. Since he was running, this tap may have appeared to be a "shove". It most definitely was not. It was just a fairly intense moment and a huge misunderstanding. Shawn and I have been friends since we were 12 years old, and I know he would never ever do anything to intentionally disrespect me. (Well, except crack jokes about my fantasy hockey teams.)
Mike Starke
29-03-2009, 14:27
Shawn, thank you for that explanation. You mentioned it's "1 in the morning", but it posted at 3:36 am. Haha. Thanks for the hard work, and time you put into that post.
1126- You guys are a complete pleasure to be around. Along with Justin, thank sooo much for being our hosts, and letting us get some floor space in your hotel rooms, and sharing food and laughs and all that. I really look up to your team. You guys are great friends and an awesome inspiration. :)
To all the volunteers, thanks for your tremendous hard work. I know some jobs may not be that glamorous, but you did them with class, style, dedication and hard work. I couldn't believe how quickly matches ran. The time between was next to nothing, and team introductions were kept super short, which I liked- Thanks to Karthik and the game announcer.
Only seeing how FLR and NJ and Buckeye is set up, I really like the Hershey Center. The pits aren't as close as FLR, but that's no big deal. The atmosphere was great, and everyone was super nice. The competition was great, and the competition in the finals will be something that will be remembered for a long time.
I hope to return to GTR in the future. Thanks again to everyone. Good luck the rest of the year!
Zuhaib Ali
29-03-2009, 14:28
Personally, this regional was by far the most fun of any FIRST event I’ve been to. The atmosphere at the event throughout the weekend was simply electric, setting the stage up for everyone to shine. We saw everything this weekend: upsets, high scores, joy and elation, and crushing defeats. Stories from throughout this weekend will be told for years to come.
First off, I’d like to thank our alliance partners 610 and 1305 for doing a remarkable job and pulling through in clutch situations. We truly made the #1 alliance work for their win, and perhaps more importantly we put on a great show for everyone
To 610, after your performance, we’re convinced that you guys are one of the best alliance partners we’ve worked with. Our team was also extremely pleased to see your team return to the high levels that we know you are capable of. We loved you versatility and would like nothing better than to see you find some way to make it down to Atlanta
I loved 1305’s drive team through the eliminations! You guys went on the field and were able to get the most out of your robot doing everything in your power to win. We owe your team a great deal of thanks. Without your empty cell deliveries they would have been no way for us to score the last second super cells. You contributed so much to our alliance, perhaps more than most people were able to see. The intangibles often make all the difference. Thank you and see you in Atlanta!
2056 was indeed the best team in terms of performance on the field. Your team has really come a far way winning your first 6 regional’s in a row. That is an accomplishment no one but your team holds. Be proud of it. Going 8-0 in qualifications was no coincidence. You guys deserve a lot of credit especially when you had a tough schedule. Your robot will be a huge force to reckon with in Atlanta.
Congratulations to team 2185, your team is now part of the 2 regional win club. Both your robot and drive team showed you were one of the best defensive teams out there. If we didn’t need an EC deliverer as badly as we did, you most definitely would have been a notable partner. Your drive team had a lot of confidence which took you guys a long way.
Once again, 1114 put on a stellar performance and they continue to be great role models in all of FIRST. After taking a look at their chairman’s display I realized they did so many things I wasn’t even aware of. It was dam impressive and I knew right away it was a championship submission.
The dilemma that occurred in the finals is regretful. Head referee Fraser Allan did his job by making the correct call. I’ve had a couple of conversations with Fraser and he is an amazing person to be around. What happened in the finals can’t be more clearly explain.
Mr. Lim, we win as a team and lose as a team. You didn’t let anyone down and the blame can’t be solely placed upon you. Matter of fact, many team members including myself were present at the pits during the time out and we all ceased to remind ourselves to be on the field. We might have lost the finals, but the team gained much more from your truly inspirational character.
Our alliance absolutely didn't want to play that match as a 3 on 2.
We totally understand that. Team 1114 and 2056, you guys should definitely be proud of your victory. Team 188 started the build season in hopes of being as good as, if not better, than teams like 2056, 1114, 71, 111, 217, 67….. and the list goes on. You are teams we derive inspiration from. Powerhouses exist for a reason. They make everyone try so much harder. Thank you!
They were not recorded by Discovery Channel so unless someone had a recorder or copied the stream I don't have any.
Did anyone remember to bring any recording equipment?
As a sidenote, I would like to say that I was not taking issue with the discussion of biased referees in general. I know that that is potentially an issue, and welcome general discussion of if it exists and how to stop it.
What I did take issue with was the specific pointing of fingers at a specific referee, specific team and specific regional. Without knowing all of the facts, randomly accusing specific people who you do not know is unacceptable to me. Even if the claims are unfounded, many take them at face value, and it is potentially very damaging to the reputation of the individual, team and even the regional.
Now, onto the happier part of my post. I was not actually supposed to be at this regional – I was told on Tuesday that they were desperately in need of a lead queuer. As I had filled that position at Waterloo last year, they asked me if I could come out, and I jumped at the chance, and I’m glad I did.
Congratulations to Teams 1114, 2056 and 2185. The way you won may not have been how you would have liked, but the level of skill you showed in finals match 3 and all throughout the eliminations leaves no doubt in my mind that you deserved the win. The level of class, dedication and effort you showed was at the level I always have seen for your teams - above and beyond.
1114 – I was completely blown away by your Chairman’s presentation when I saw it on Thursday night. Everyone who put effort into that should be incredibly proud of themselves, and know that you truly deserved this award. The things you have done for the FIRST community are unparalleled. Those of you who haven’t watched their episodes of Degrassi are really missing out!
Thanks to “my” team, 2505. With the incredible mentors you have, it’s only a matter of time before you become a new Canadian superpower.
188/610/1305 – Congrats on a hard fought finals. Thank you to Shawn for your post earlier – you have a tremendous amount of class, and I am proud to have worked with you in the past and hopefully again soon!
To my queuing team: never did I think we would be capable of running ahead of time on a (mostly) 6 minute match schedule, but we did! You all were fantastic, and I appreciate everything you did so much. I hope to work with you again in the future.
Thanks to Jess Breadner for all of your help at lunch on Saturday, and for bringing me my fruit. :)
Fraser Allan was an amazing head referee with a thorough knowledge of the rules – many times I saw him after a match go running over to the scorer’s table to go through the manual to confirm that the referees made the right call.
There were ups and downs throughout the weekend, but I am still glad I made the decision to trek up from London to make it, and I hope to be back next year.
Jonathan Norris
29-03-2009, 14:47
Did anyone remember to bring any recording equipment?
Kevin Reid from 2609 brought his equipment and was able to record Saturday morning, his recording of the afternoon didn't end up working for some reason... Hopefully someone else has a recording of the afternoon.
I was too busy getting my team ready for GTR and didn't bring my equipment.
IntensifiedAmp
29-03-2009, 16:00
Kevin Reid from 2609 brought his equipment and was able to record Saturday morning, his recording of the afternoon didn't end up working for some reason... Hopefully someone else has a recording of the afternoon.
I was too busy getting my team ready for GTR and didn't bring my equipment.
I'm assuming he'll post these up soon?
well i have a copy of it and i will be cutting up this and waterloo as soon as i have the time. Hopefully il be able to start soon.
IntensifiedAmp
29-03-2009, 17:31
well i have a copy of it and i will be cutting up this and waterloo as soon as i have the time. Hopefully il be able to start soon.
Thank you VERY much : ) I'm sure a lot are excited to rewatch the experience.
Gaurav27
29-03-2009, 18:16
GTR 2009 proved to be once again, one of the most competitive regionals in FIRST.
GTR's first clarification announced by Karthik before qualification matches was that there will be NO REPLAY matches and they stood by it all weekend which was really good to see. GTR's Head ref. & his asst. refs also did an amazing job at keeping all matches fair.
After the completion of all 79 qualification matches, there was an almost even split between every win-loss record (ex. 2056: 8-0, 2386 7-1 followed by 8 teams with 6-2, 10 teams with 5-3, 18 teams 4-4 ...etc.). This happens almost every year and shows how competitive the regional really is. (Teams can easily jump up or down in the standings)
2056: Best bot I've seen from them in all of their years. They're 6/6, winning every regional they've ever attended. :ahh: Nothing else to say about them.
188: They left me speechless this year. Coming back from no regional win since 2003 (i think) to winning ALMOST both of their regionals. For this, i truly congratulate them for. Everyone makes mistakes that costs them matches. That is just one of them. Trust me 1241 knows and i'm sure other teams have been there. 188, all the very best for Atlanta! Good Luck there and we hope to work with you guys in the future.
1114: Congratulations 1114 on the RCA and Regional Win! You guys worked hard for the regional win. This team consistently makes robots that just win games. Overall, 1114 is a team that creates an electric atmosphere whenever they're on the field! This team sets the example for everyone and motivates other teams to do that much better. Good Luck in Atlanta Simbotics!
2185: "New Kids on the Block" in 2007. Well guess what, this team has consistently proved to be the best defensive bot out there. When they need to, their robot has the capability of shutting down other bots and played a crucial role in eliminations. Congratulations 2185 on your 2 banners! Good Luck in Atlanta!
1334: Thank you for picking us! You guys were amazing to work with. 1334 is always visible with their red devil head "thingy's". :P You really shut down our opponents through pinning them for long periods of time. It was awesome to work with you. We were so close to finals! Anyhow, we look forward to working with you in the future. Congratulations on your Waterloo Engineering Inspiration Award @ Waterloo and Good Luck in Atlanta!
854: Iron Bears as always are a pleasure to work with. Awesome bot and congrats on the Driving Tomorrow's Technology Award!
1241: Woot! Imagery :) Talking about my own team is kind of awkward but i am truly proud of each and every member on our team. Being semifinalists at both FLR and GTR we tried our very best to win both of them. Using strategies almost impossible to carry out, we used these to win crucial matches. Our 2009 bot also one of the simplest we have built, carried out every task required for Lunacy. From running empty cells to scoring moon rocks, it could do it all.
Thanks to all the teams, volunteers and organizers at GTR for making this an extremely memorable event!
2009 being my graduating year, i look forward to mentoring this team and helping out at the 2010 Waterloo & Greater Toronto Regionals! See you there!
Lastly, GOOD LUCK TO ALL CANADIAN TEAMS ATTENDING WORLDS! BRING HOME THE WIN! :cool: I HOPE TO SEE A LOT OF CAN TEAMS ON EINSTEIN :P
2056isaac
29-03-2009, 19:42
For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. That’s what FIRST is. It is not to do with what goes on on the field. It is to inspire youth to be science and technology leaders in a competitive, but professional environment, and I want to start by thanking the people who “get it.” You guys are people who we as students should look up to. Thank you.
GTR Crew. Thank you to the crew that made GTR possible. Thank you to the judges, referees, volunteers, and the others that we would not be able to have such a great time without. To Karthik and Charles. You guys made the place alive and I can’t thank you enough for creating such an amazing environment to play this unique sport. Thank you.
Teams. You guys deserve as much thanks as any. You took the challenge and overcame it. Thank you for the friendships and intense matches. Thank you to 188/610/1305. I know that I do not thrive off the fear and your brilliance and incredible strategy made it an amazing nail-biter. Thank you.
Team 1114 and 2185. Thank you for working with us. Without 2185’s power defense and 1114’s miraculous scoring, we wouldn’t be where we are. Thank you to 1114 for all the help they have given us. You have helped us in every aspect of FIRST and you guys are awesome. I hope our symbiotic relationship holds fast. Thank you.
Parents. Karthik always takes time out of the usual FIRST thank yous to thank the parents and he is so right. I can’t even imagine where we would be without your support. To the parents of team 2056, you guys are awesome. Helping with things from engineering to administration to scouting, you have trekked along with us the whole way and you deserve our utmost thanks. Thank you.
Tyler and Mr. Hunter. Without you we wouldn’t be team 2056. Without you two, the students on our team would be sitting in class trying to figure out what to do when in 1, 2, or 3 years, we are going to be setting off into another world that is so different from our current life. Without you, on a Monday night in January we would be sitting in our rooms playing video games. Without you, we wouldn’t have many skills that many employers want so bad, and thank you for all the laughs.
“Great moments are born from great opportunities.” Thank you for the opportunities.
SpaceOsc
29-03-2009, 19:54
Who won Engineering Inspiration and Rookie All Star @ GTR?
With many thanks to Michelle Celio for hosting my pictures of GTR. There are 686 for Friday and 650 for Saturday.
Fridays Pictures (http://www.michellecelio.com/GTRreg09/Friday/index.html)
Saturdays Pictures (http://www.michellecelio.com/GTRreg09/Saturday/index.html)
Please forgive me if there seems to be more Team 188 pics but I was shooting for them as well.
If anyone wants a picture or 2 at full resolution, send me an email or message and I will forward to you. No requests for Kathik pics without his consent as he owns the copy rights to them.:rolleyes:
d.courtney
30-03-2009, 01:22
2056, 1114, and 2185: Congratulations on the win, you had a extremely strong alliance, it was amazing being able to watch matches played at such a high caliber. Best of luck in Atlanta. To 2056: Congratulations on your 6th straight regional win! To 1114: Congratulations on RCA, I can’t think of a more deserving team. Thank you very much for allowing me to view the presentation on Thursday, it was very helpful to see a winning submission and quite inspiring hearing everything you have done. Hopefully this year you can bring home Chairman’s from Atlanta!
188, 610 & 1305: Another amazingly strong alliance, it was fantastic to see your alliance improve with each match you played. Finals Match 1 and 3 are amoung some of the greatest FIRST matches I have ever seen, and that is due in great part to the tough competition you provided. Never have I seen such intense and close matches in the finals at a regional. Congratulations on being finalists and good luck to 188 and 1305 in Atlanta.
2200: Again, I am in love with your robot. Fantastic forethought and courage went into designing a robot to focus simply on one small aspect of the game, a very aspect many teams overlooked not only in robot design but also in game strategy. Your robot is one of my favourites this year.
1535: Congratulations on Engineering Inspiration, I unfortunately haven’t had the chance to get to know your team to well, but from the Judge’s write-up it sounds as though you certainly deserve the award. Best of luck at Atlanta!
2809: Fantastic work on taking home the Rookie All Stars. Its true you already fit in with the elite teams from Canada and I only see success for the future of your team. Good Luck in Atlanta!
All the Volunteers: Each and every one of you give up a vast amount of time, thank you for your dedication and for making this regional such a success.
Thank you everybody, it hadn't dawned on us that we had qualified for Atlanta for winning the Engineering Inspiration Award until after Karen Rosenthal told our team captain she would get our shipping papers ready, we were in complete shock and still cannot believe it.
Congratulations to 1114, 2056, and 2185 On Winning
Congratulations to 1114 for winning the chairmans award
SprocketGuy
30-03-2009, 18:01
Steve W,
Those are some amazing pictures you took. Thanks so much for posting them.
thx steve these are the exact pic i was hoping for!!:)
UberChar
30-03-2009, 20:19
this post has nothing to do with the finals, but if someone from 1305 can answer this for me why take out your gun type of shooter? Ive been wondering that since the 2nd day of GTR, just curious
I suspect they changed it from that to the box bot they had at GTR because of 2200's success at Waterloo and their flop there. They saw that EC delivery was proving to be an important role, and it was likely this choice that landed them on the #3 alliance to take regional finalist.
...Thanks Steve. I feel better knowing the head ref is 188 Alum. GTR is, and always has been, my favorite FRC event, and its always very well run. I haven't ever really noticed many bad calls at Waterloo or GTR as far as the reffing goes, I've never seen anything in the Canadian regionals like whats happened at some of the regionals south of the border.
For what it is worth, I was at the scoring table when the decision was being made for the call. There was no pressure or bias either way being put on the head ref by anyone. We all told him that it was ultimately his call. He could have called it either way. I do not envy his position, as I have been in a similar position before. Because of his ties to 188, he had to call it strictly by the book (I had to call it strictly by the book as well, when I was in a similar situation several years ago).
Great pics Steve. Thanks for sharing.
http://www.michellecelio.com/GTRreg09/Saturday/Images/14.jpg
Karthik, that jersey is starting to look awefully dirty. Besides, Delgado hasn't played in Toronto for like five years. I think it's time to trade it in for something more appropriate: http://www.emqb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/terrell-owens-jersey_edited-1.jpg
Karthik, that jersey is starting to look awefully dirty. Besides, Delgado hasn't played in Toronto for like five years. I think it's time to trade it in for something more appropriate: http://www.emqb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/terrell-owens-jersey_edited-1.jpg
Trust me, that jersey is a clean as can be. It gets taken care of very well. As for your jersey suggestion, I can assure you that I will never, ever be putting on a Bills jersey. :)
Great pics Steve. Thanks for sharing.
http://www.michellecelio.com/GTRreg09/Saturday/Images/14.jpg
Karthik, that jersey is starting to look awefully dirty. Besides, Delgado hasn't played in Toronto for like five years. I think it's time to trade it in for something more appropriate: http://www.emqb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/terrell-owens-jersey_edited-1.jpg
Karthik is a Cowboys fan (bleh).
wendells
31-03-2009, 06:11
khartik,
I wonder if you were ever to put on 20 lbs what would happen to your jersey then? :ahh:
khartik,
I wonder if you were ever to put on 20 lbs what would happen to your jersey then? :ahh:
It would start to fit.
SprocketGuy
31-03-2009, 10:28
Did anyone happen to tape Global News on Friday/Saturday night? I've heard that there was coverage of the tournament and our team but we didn't know until Monday. I'd love to get a copy.
This year, more than any other, we leaned on statistics meticulously gathered by our scouting team. We used their data both during the pick selection process, and during our strategy planning sessions.
Although we used a large number of statistics this year, we also felt that this year's game one was of the hardest to scout and collect data from.
I've attached our scouting database to this post, and wanted to sneak in a quick thank-you to our student scouting team:
Priyank, Amrutha, Nelluxan, Nancy, Shifa, Aline, Pranit, Stephen, Welson, Waqar, Matthew, Alvin, Sharven, Diriye and Zuhaib.
Your efforts are what made much of the magic happen at GTR, and hopefully a few other teams will be able to use the product of your hard work!
Of interest in the database are real OPR stats (individually tracked for each robot and match, NOT aggregated and averaged via linear algebra), real HPR stats (tells what portion of the real OPR was attributed to the Human Player) and real NPR (Plus/Minus). We also tracked robot and human player shooting percentages, as well EC deliveries, and SC attempts and makes - seperately for both robots and human players. Stats are collected for Friday only. No matches were statistically scouted on Saturday - sorry!
Hope you find these useful, as we most certainly did!
Thanks again scouting team!
Mark Rozitis
31-03-2009, 23:25
Did anyone happen to tape Global News on Friday/Saturday night? I've heard that there was coverage of the tournament and our team but we didn't know until Monday. I'd love to get a copy.
Well I am the camera guy for Global who shot the waterloo and GTR stuff, in waterloo we made Global on the Friday/saturday 6pm and 11pm but only 25 seconds.
GTR we made it all three days and I just found out that on saturday 6pm they used one clip with shawn lim and in total 30 seconds made air.
The weather network on Friday aired a some video along with a bunch of earth hour clips.
It is really hard to get a copy of stuff that goes on air and one of the lessons I learned this year is to set up the DVD recorders next year and record at home.
I have been able to request a DVD copy of the saturday 6pm news with the shawn lim clip and as soon as I have it I will let you know.
I also have a fair bit of RAW un-edited B-roll from waterloo and GTR, nothing in any particular order but lots of vis of the fans, 781 and 1075? who had the most active cheering sections at WAT and GTR respectivly, and stuff from the pits.
Problem is it's all High quality broadcast grade video and that means huge files once i get it all onto my laptop but I suppose there is some software out there that will allow me to compress it a bit and I can make that available if you want it....via DVD, FTP if you have a server or maybe via yousendit.com.
I'll have to figure that out in the next few days, been doing 18 hour shifts back in the real world so right now there are discs, cables, laptops and god knows what else still lying all over the floor of my room....just the way it all landed when I came home from GTR and my earth hour shoot at IESO. :)
I'll figure something out and as soon at the Global library gets me that DVD I will let you know.
I'ts interesting how strict the librarians are, they let me watch the 30 second vo-clip but wouldn't close their eyes and let me copy it, have to follow proper procedure and wait my turn :)
I do have a fair bit of b-roll of 1075 as they were quite active in the stands and the coach looked fairly hyper behind the drive team and for news.....thats what were looking for.....excitment.
Too bad I had to leave early to rush the video back to global and missed the real excitement towards the end of the GTR, next year....I will plan differently, and bring maybe a few TB of external HD's with me to record "everything".
mark
cpeister
01-04-2009, 10:18
I would love to have the stuff on 781.
lol, yeah, the active cheering section was us (1075)... it would be nice to have the b-roll stuff of us to use for promo videos... any way you could get it to me?
Nick Lawrence
01-04-2009, 13:59
I would love to see some of those Earth Hour clips, after all, they did pull me aside to interview me. Boy, did that guy talk really fast, he managed to fit "Why do you think Earth Hour is important?" in two seconds off camera.
Also, if there is any b-roll stuff of 1503, I'd love to have it for keepsake purposes, but also for possible future use in promotional items.
SprocketGuy
01-04-2009, 18:37
Well I am the camera guy for Global who shot the waterloo and GTR stuff, in waterloo we made Global on the Friday/saturday 6pm and 11pm but only 25 seconds.
GTR we made it all three days and I just found out that on saturday 6pm they used one clip with shawn lim and in total 30 seconds made air.
The weather network on Friday aired a some video along with a bunch of earth hour clips.
It is really hard to get a copy of stuff that goes on air and one of the lessons I learned this year is to set up the DVD recorders next year and record at home.
I have been able to request a DVD copy of the saturday 6pm news with the shawn lim clip and as soon as I have it I will let you know.
I also have a fair bit of RAW un-edited B-roll from waterloo and GTR, nothing in any particular order but lots of vis of the fans, 781 and 1075? who had the most active cheering sections at WAT and GTR respectivly, and stuff from the pits.
Problem is it's all High quality broadcast grade video and that means huge files once i get it all onto my laptop but I suppose there is some software out there that will allow me to compress it a bit and I can make that available if you want it....via DVD, FTP if you have a server or maybe via yousendit.com.
I'll have to figure that out in the next few days, been doing 18 hour shifts back in the real world so right now there are discs, cables, laptops and god knows what else still lying all over the floor of my room....just the way it all landed when I came home from GTR and my earth hour shoot at IESO. :)
I'll figure something out and as soon at the Global library gets me that DVD I will let you know.
I'ts interesting how strict the librarians are, they let me watch the 30 second vo-clip but wouldn't close their eyes and let me copy it, have to follow proper procedure and wait my turn :)
I do have a fair bit of b-roll of 1075 as they were quite active in the stands and the coach looked fairly hyper behind the drive team and for news.....thats what were looking for.....excitment.
Too bad I had to leave early to rush the video back to global and missed the real excitement towards the end of the GTR, next year....I will plan differently, and bring maybe a few TB of external HD's with me to record "everything".
mark
Mark,
that "active" Coach from 1075 is ME! and I'm dying to see the footage!! I'd be ever grateful if you could hook me up with anything you have! I was told the online news video had the 30 sec clip but it didn't.
I'm kind of shocked you are on the forums, are you FIRST Alum that happens to film for Global?
Thanks Mark!
Mark Rozitis
01-04-2009, 21:02
I will do what I can with the RAW B-roll that I have once I get it into my computer and off the XDCAM discs, I am trying to find away to reduce the file sizes as well but my brain over heated and I haven't had time to do anything last couple of days except work.
As for the stuff online, each TV station is different, some put stories online and keep them there for awhile and some do not, it's hit and miss and it shouldn't be that way, how many people get home at 6pm to watch the news these days? Tv stations had better put their best product on the internet because that's were the viewers are and will be in the future.
I am not FIRST alumni, my FIRST time covering a FIRST event was Aim High and I remember it very well and since I do front line hard news (scanners- BC996t, police, fire, ems, etc) and severe weather 90 percent of the time I am wound up like a spring 95 percent of the time and believe me I had no clue what this event was, some robotics competition they were sending me to and I was trying to figure out an excuse not to go and eventually I went down to the Hershy centre and figured I'll go in there for five minutes and get out of there.
So I get there and I ended up entering via the upper levels so I am in the stands and it's like this massive rock concert with robots on the field and the music was good.
I shot some video, then went down to the field and then the pits and paused to send a message on my blackberry to the station saying "this thing at the hershey centre is really big, send another camera and a reporter!!!"
They made me wear safety glasses, I told them that I'm ok, I'm media and of course I ended up getting used to shooting with safety glasses on and and then I realized that I would look out of place if I wasn't wearing them.
About an hour into it walking around the pits I noticed there are hundred of people there frantically working on robots, tools flying, parts dropping to the ground and yet I still haven't heard one swear word, I really noticed that. ( Can't say the same for me when I'm working on something) :)
So to make a long story not quite as long, I went back the next day, shot more video for our weekend news on my own because I thought this aim high game was really fun to watch and and I wanted to get more goals on tape, then I started learning about FIRST and came across this site and became addicted and now it's been the most favorite event/shoot I look forward to each year. Now that weekend when I went back for the second day of Aim High I remember it well, I shot 6 hours of tape and I rushed back to Global and at 5:15pm I went to the producer's desk and told him I have all the FIRST robotics stuff for the six and I had this stack of tapes in my hand and he says ok thanks mark, I have it in for 1minute 45 seconds so just give me you're best stuff......and I was holding 6 hours of video and interview clips in my hand and it was 5:15.
I try and follow FRC quite closely although this year with the long hours I didn't have as much reading time as I would have liked.
I have received some some great technical advice on this site on computer related matters and really experiencing a regional and seeing what goes on gives you something to think about in terms of you're own skills and work ethic.
It's a really good event, good news story and worth doing and the music is really good at the regional and where else would you have robots, technology, sports, high school and college students and adults all in one building dancing to the chicken dance? They even played a stompin Tom song this time around :)
mark
that "active" Coach from 1075 is ME! and I'm dying to see the footage!! I'd be ever grateful if you could hook me up with anything you have! I was told the online news video had the 30 sec clip but it didn't.
I'm kind of shocked you are on the forums, are you FIRST Alum that happens to film for Global?
Thanks Mark![/QUOTE]
Vince lau
01-04-2009, 21:19
Glad you liked your first FIRST experience and that you keep coming back. If only your station sent you down to Atlanta to cover the Canadian teams. Picture the Georgia dome filled with students, teachers, mentors, parents, 4 fields, and a huge pit that's like a 10 minute walk away.
To 1075, wow. The shift in the amount of spirit that you guys gave out to your team was pretty niice. You were all pretty quiet at Waterloo too! Look at you guys at GTR now. Also, that conducting man was a good idea! (: It's a shame that most of our spirit team were either sick or were tired at GTR.
To Mark Rozitis, thank you for offering the coverage of our team! It would be awesome if you could get that to everyone. I doubt that you will be able to send much through yousendit.com though (100mb max if I remembered correctly).
You mentioned something about FTP, so I'm assuming you can use it? If so, then how about I set up a directory for you so you can upload these videos for everyone? We have quite a lot of bandwidth and disc space and i'm pretty sure we have enough to share.
Thank you. (:
Thanks 781, we sat behind you guys at Waterloo and watched you win the spirit award there. We decided we wanted to win it at GTR and ramped the game up to suit that goal. Behind the scenes we were trying for the safety award too but yet again got beat out by 1141 (the last THREE official events we've been to (i think 4, actually) they won the safety award).
Mark Rozitis
02-04-2009, 06:33
Yea it's a fun event that's for sure and an intelligent fun event, and I often think as I wander around the pits if we only had "one" of these teams as our engineering dept stuff would actually work back at the station :)
Years ago stations actually would send cameras and reporters down to the states or wherever for stuff like that but not these days, it would bring them higher ratings and it's not really that expensive if you do it right.
Glad you liked your first FIRST experience and that you keep coming back. If only your station sent you down to Atlanta to cover the Canadian teams. Picture the Georgia dome filled with students, teachers, mentors, parents, 4 fields, and a huge pit that's like a 10 minute walk away.
Mark Rozitis
02-04-2009, 06:39
If you have FTP that would be perfect, as soon as I get the RAW video onto my system I can just set the files to start uploading the same way I do with the stuff I shoot for the weather network, I have stuff from waterloo and GTR, it's all RAW news footage and nothing is in any particular order but there is a fair bit of video.
FTP is a bit easier than yousendit.com because one little hiccup and you have to start over again whereas FTP just auto-resumes.
mark
To 1075, wow. The shift in the amount of spirit that you guys gave out to your team was pretty niice. You were all pretty quiet at Waterloo too! Look at you guys at GTR now. Also, that conducting man was a good idea! (: It's a shame that most of our spirit team were either sick or were tired at GTR.
To Mark Rozitis, thank you for offering the coverage of our team! It would be awesome if you could get that to everyone. I doubt that you will be able to send much through yousendit.com though (100mb max if I remembered correctly).
You mentioned something about FTP, so I'm assuming you can use it? If so, then how about I set up a directory for you so you can upload these videos for everyone? We have quite a lot of bandwidth and disc space and i'm pretty sure we have enough to share.
Thank you. (:
Mark Rozitis
02-04-2009, 06:46
I know I still have all the raw video and the clips, looking like this sunday morning is when I will get in all into my laptop and then I can make DVD or FTP video out, I'll probably start loading the video into the computer Friday night actually.
So I talk that fast eh? wonder if that's why no one can ever understand me? :)
You should hear some of the short form and stuff we use in news as we are racing to active incidents and stuff or listen to the dispatchers on the scanners.....that's probably where I picked it up actually talking that fast, I normally don't say much and then there are these short data bursts :)
Actually it would have been so much easier if I had a reporter or someone else with me asking the questions....I'm terrible at it, i'm technical/nerd/camera.....not reporter but the producers now want me getting clips too :(
m
I would love to see some of those Earth Hour clips, after all, they did pull me aside to interview me. Boy, did that guy talk really fast, he managed to fit "Why do you think Earth Hour is important?" in two seconds off camera.
Also, if there is any b-roll stuff of 1503, I'd love to have it for keepsake purposes, but also for possible future use in promotional items.
1141 did do a really nice job with safety. They had a pretty clean pit if I remember correctly from Waterloo. They also hosted a raffle for a safety kit with a fire extinguisher at Waterloo. Our safety captain enthusiastically received that! (:
Mark Rozitis, I have sent you a private message with the ftp information and I hope you would upload your videos onto our server when you are ready! If there's anything else we could do for you, please ask. (: Thank you very much for doing this for us, again!
Mark Rozitis
02-04-2009, 19:58
Got it and the waterloo and some mississauga GTR stuff is already on the way up. Go Modem!!!! :)
1141 did do a really nice job with safety. They had a pretty clean pit if I remember correctly from Waterloo. They also hosted a raffle for a safety kit with a fire extinguisher at Waterloo. Our safety captain enthusiastically received that! (:
Mark Rozitis, I have sent you a private message with the ftp information and I hope you would upload your videos onto our server when you are ready! If there's anything else we could do for you, please ask. (: Thank you very much for doing this for us, again!
Hmm, i don't see anything. Make sure you are uploading to the folder "uploads.team781.com"? Thanks (:!
Mark Rozitis
03-04-2009, 05:45
Hmm, i don't see anything. Make sure you are uploading to the folder "uploads.team781.com"? Thanks (:!
The first batch of waterloo and GTR stuff is on it's way up to you now one by one, there was a technical error I discovered this morning, looks like there was and operator error but it's all going up to that folder now as far as I can see, one by one the files are uploading and there is smoke coming off the modem so it's looking like things are all good now on my end. :)
Next I will load the rest of the GTR stuff into the system and send that up on the weekend.
mark
Some videos taken by Mark Rozitis have been uploaded! Download them here (http://uploads.team781.com/) in high quality! Make sure you have lots of space freed up on your computer before you start your download.
Some videos taken by Mark Rozitis have been uploaded! Download them here (http://uploads.team781.com/) in high quality! Make sure you have lots of space freed up on your computer before you start your download.
and bandwidth!
lol
much appreciated, but WOW those files are big... perhaps someone on 781 could use virtualdubmod or similar to remix them down into .mpg files, they'll be a lot less cumbersome on the 781 server, and a lot faster for everyone to download.
EDIT: I'm currently downloading the ~200MB file, and getting 60Kb/sec on my Rogers 10Mbps service... The strain on team781.com's server must be pretty big.
Re-EDIT: VirtualDubMod can be found here (http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/), is free and open-source, I believe.
Mark Rozitis
05-04-2009, 18:58
The reason my files are so big is they are captured right out of the camera with VirtualDub at .avi, HQ broadcast grade right from the Sony XDHD cam.
Since they do everything for me at both stations I shoot for I don't have as much experience as I should with the different formats as well as editing although I made a comment to Bill Holtby at GTR that I would learn to edit by next year's regionals, well I guess I'm learning to edit:)
I used sony vegas movie studio 8 and rendered one of the files to mpeg2 and it didn't look as good, I then tried .wma and it looked quite good. I need to learn and experiment more and figure this all out.
I'll check out the link you posted once I get home, I'm on the blackberry now.
The last file should be up on 781 by 8:30pm.
I have the same rogers service as you I think and I'm uploading at 124k/s so could just be that we've slowed down the whole internet :)
If they won't download or are too big I suppose it could render them all to .wma's.
There is a fair bit of 1075 in almost each one of the GTR clips and more of 781 in the waterloo clips.
Then again if you're going to use the raw video to edit some promo videos together you have the HQ stuff so that's good.
M
much appreciated, but WOW those files are big... perhaps someone on 781 could use virtualdubmod or similar to remix them down into .mpg files, they'll be a lot less cumbersome on the 781 server, and a lot faster for everyone to download.
EDIT: I'm currently downloading the ~200MB file, and getting 60Kb/sec on my Rogers 10Mbps service... The strain on team781.com's server must be pretty big.
Re-EDIT: VirtualDubMod can be found here (http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/), is free and open-source, I believe.
cpeister
05-04-2009, 21:17
much appreciated, but WOW those files are big... perhaps someone on 781 could use virtualdubmod or similar to remix them down into .mpg files, they'll be a lot less cumbersome on the 781 server, and a lot faster for everyone to download.
EDIT: I'm currently downloading the ~200MB file, and getting 60Kb/sec on my Rogers 10Mbps service... The strain on team781.com's server must be pretty big.
Re-EDIT: VirtualDubMod can be found here (http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/), is free and open-source, I believe.
Actually, I am delighted that team781.com is still moving as fast as ever, despite the strain.
Edit: I am not the webbie, but I believe we have an insane amount of bandwidth.
I'm pretty sure our web server can take the strain. For the price we pay every year, it better be able to take it... ):
To 1075guy, if you would like, I can convert the videos to .mpg and upload those for you to download.
I tried converting one of those bigger files into a small .avi file (using Total Video Converter). The 9:18 clip went from 1.9GB to 141MB. The quality isn't as good in comparison, but it's decent... and the size remains the same at 720x480.
I tried to use VirtualDubMod like recommended, but it gave me errors when I attempted to open a file- "Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown)."
I'm uploading the smaller files at uploads.team781.com/small/ (uploads.team781.com/small)... They're still .avi files, but their quality is just bumped down a bit.
Cheers! (:
Edit: Just a note that the videos will not be uploaded in order.
Flyin' Axe
05-04-2009, 23:08
I'm pretty sure our web server can take the strain. For the price we pay every year, it better be able to take it... ):
To 1075guy, if you would like, I can convert the videos to .mpg and upload those for you to download.
I tried converting one of those bigger files into a small .avi file (using Total Video Converter). The 9:18 clip went from 1.9GB to 141MB. The quality isn't as good in comparison, but it's decent... and the size remains the same at 720x480.
I tried to use VirtualDubMod like recommended, but it gave me errors when I attempted to open a file- "Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown)."
I'm uploading the smaller files at uploads.team781.com/small/ (uploads.team781.com/small)... They're still .avi files, but their quality is just bumped down a bit.
Cheers! (:
Edit: Just a note that the videos will not be uploaded in order.
Can you please post a description of each video. Like what the video is about??
Thanks you very much for hosting these amazing videos!!
Mark Rozitis
06-04-2009, 05:54
The only description I can say is the date the videos where shot and the location (waterloo/GTR), the number at the start of the file denotes the date, since i was primarily shooting for the news I was shooting a little bit of everything.
I wish and believe me I could have shot more video, when I shot all this I was being conservative :)
Have to think and plan better for next year, perhaps plug a hard drive into the Audio/video feed from the production company and then also wander around the pits and stands and shoot the other stuff I suppose.
Can you please post a description of each video. Like what the video is about??
Thanks you very much for hosting these amazing videos!!
Thanks, wish I got compliments like that about the video I shot for work.......
SprocketGuy
06-04-2009, 07:08
Hey Mark and Malice,
A HUGE thank you to both of your for getting all this footage out to us. Mark you have some amazing stuff! Malice, I can't believe your site can handle all the downloading I did this weekend!
The Sprockets are in your debt.
Sincerely,
Adam
I will make a list of which teams are featured in which clips some time today while I upload the smaller-sized videos. I'll have plenty of time to do that too because it's a snowday today! (:
cpeister
06-04-2009, 08:10
Yeah. SNOWDAY!
Ohhh... I remember that 'dvsd' error... I forget how I fixed it... I think I had to download a codec or something... whatever. Thats some hosting you've got. I know I run a website for the Canadian Timing Association (we time race cars at Mosport, north of Bowmanville, ON, in the summer) I pay like $12CDN/mo for the hosting... Huh. Having just looked at it, it seems that I get Unltd Bandwidth and Disk Space. But I only used 2.5MB of bandwidth last month. :P
Wahaha, we've managed to use up 40GB of bandwidth currently this month. We too have unlimited bandwidth + disc space, so don't worry. (:
All the HQ videos are up at uploads.team781.com while the smaller sized video clips are at uploads.team781.com/small. You may need the DivX codec (http://www.divx.com/) to play the small sized videos.
You can pause/resume downloads. I would recommend getting a download accelerator to download these videos since they're kinda big.
Here's what happens in each video so you don't download what you don't need. The first number is the date.
19 Waterloo 1
Around the pit
- 854 build
- 1141 working in the pit
- 1075 close ups of robot + cart
- 2166 robot modding
19 Waterloo 2
Near the field
- 2056 a bit of robot setup
- 781 robot load and setup
- 2609 robot setup
- 2056's robot was followed in the match with 2200, 781, 2056, and 2609
19 Waterloo 3
Walking around the pit and field, various glances and stuff
- a zoom in on a "We have the parts and we know how to use them" shirt
- people and robots at the 296, 781, 854, 1035, 1075, 1141 pit area
21 Waterloo 1
Matches, around the field, drivers, and the audience
- "Safety glasses required in pit at all times"
- 854 robot + robot modifications at the practice area
- 1334, 1404, 2013, 1565 pit area
- Karthik talking & glance at queue line
- 296, 2013, 2609, 2361 match... then loading + unloading robot
- 781, 1075, 1334, 2200 audience
- 1141, 854, 1815, 2935, 1310, 2702 match.. I think 854 ripped up a moonrock with their robot here
- 1075, 1305 audience
- 1565, 1404, 1075, 781, 1334, 2200 drivers
- 781 audience
26 Mississauga 1
Match between 188, 1305, 772, 781, 2056, 854
- 188, 1305, 772, 781, 2056, 854 match
- 781 human player (BRAAAAAAADDYYYYYY!!!!!)
- 188 robot
26 Mississauga 2
At the pit- construction work, teams, people, robots
- "Have you brought your Gracious Professionalism" sign
- 2634 and 2198 fixing their robot
- 2185 mascot dancing around
- 2013 pit.. and zoom on their awards
- 1605 robot work
- Lunacy volunteer working the Segway
26 Mississauga 3
At the pit and some clips from a match
- 1503 pit: working on the robot and their sign/banner
- people walking the shortcut from the pit to the field
- clips from the 188, 1305, 772, 781, 2056, 854 match
26 Mississauga 4
At the field: matches and the cheering section
- 2505, 1503 loading their robot
- I don't know the number.... but it's a human player with an orange cap. Really good at shooting!
- 1535 cheering
- 1312 audience
- man with flags on his safety glasses taking a video
27 Mississauga 1
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- human players
- 843, 1514, 610, 188, 1334, 1126, 2809, 2935, 1815 drivers
- 1535, 1815 human player
- 1514, 188, 1126 robot
- 1310, 2809, 1075 cheering/audience
- 1305 camera man
- Karthik talking ... hm.
- 854 mascot dancing
27 Mississauga 2
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- 781, 1006 robot
- 1846, 1114, 610, 1219, 2935, 188, 2013, 843, 1141 drivers
- 1224, 2809 human player
- Charles and the volunteers.. dancing and such
- 1310 cheering
27 Mississauga 3
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- 854, 677, 2056 robot
- 1114, 1075 audience/cheering/dancing
- 2076, 1312, 1244, 2386, 3117 drivers
- 1075 driver & driving coach... then turns to the cheering section witth 1075
- 610 camera man
- 854 human player
- Karthik
27 Mississauga 4
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- 2013, 1114 human player
- 1219, 1310 audience/cheering
- 188, 2076, 2505, 2809, 2634, 1503, 865, 2852, 2935 drivers
- 188, 1114, 1535, 2185, 2626, 2505 match.. more focused on 188
- 2056 robot
- 1547, 1075, 1305 doing the Macarena (:
- 1126 audience.. and their little dog plushie
- green bird mascot dancing around.. unknown team #?
27 Mississauga 5
Mainly the audience and the volunteers
- 1305, 188, 1535, 1075, 1547 YMCA
- various volunteers dancing or talking
28 Mississauga 1
Audience and the volunteers- all dancing clips
- 1075... dancing/cheering/doing the chicken dance (:
- 3 girls in black & red in the audience.. unknown team #?
- volunteers dancing around
28 Mississauga 2
Pit and robot inspection
- wandering around the pit... kinda looks like a convention!
- 2200, 1141, 781, 1126, 2013, 1305, 1310, 610, 1075, 1114, 188 were focused on
28 Mississauga 3
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section... KARTHIK WITH THE T-SHIRT CANNON!!!!
- Karthik & t-shirt cannon.. appears twice
- 1075 drivers & cart driver
- 772, 1075, 2809 audience/cheering
- 1310, 2505 drivers and coaches screaming about an empty cell
- Scores table
- 2935 drivers
- volunteer Steve with a camera
- 610, 2626, 1006, 2809, 1547, 2631 match clips
Phew.. Happy downloading! (:
cpeister
06-04-2009, 13:12
I get an error when I try to watch these....any suggestions Holly?
I dunno. Try a DivX player? :/ (http://www.divx.com/)
Mark Rozitis
06-04-2009, 17:28
Wow! That is one heck of a job shot-listing all my video especially considering that when I'm shooting for the news I have the attention span of a squirrel.
I'm out covering the snow and wind storm today for Global and TWN but I do have a few files from last years's GTR as well, other than 188's polar bear mascot I can't remember what's in them but I can send them up later this week.
Oh well we now have a nice 60-70k wind driving this snow so I better get back out there and play :)
Thanks again for making the videos available to everyone and shot-listing it all.
M
Wahaha, we've managed to use up 40GB of bandwidth currently this month. We too have unlimited bandwidth + disc space, so don't worry. (:
All the HQ videos are up at uploads.team781.com while the smaller sized video clips are at uploads.team781.com/small. You may need the DivX codec (http://www.divx.com/) to play the small sized videos.
You can pause/resume downloads. I would recommend getting a download accelerator to download these videos since they're kinda big.
Here's what happens in each video so you don't download what you don't need. The first number is the date.
19 Waterloo 1
Around the pit
- 854 build
- 1141 working in the pit
- 1075 close ups of robot + cart
- 2166 robot modding
19 Waterloo 2
Near the field
- 2056 a bit of robot setup
- 781 robot load and setup
- 2609 robot setup
- 2056's robot was followed in the match with 2200, 781, 2056, and 2609
19 Waterloo 3
Walking around the pit and field, various glances and stuff
- a zoom in on a "We have the parts and we know how to use them" shirt
- people and robots at the 296, 781, 854, 1035, 1075, 1141 pit area
21 Waterloo 1
Matches, around the field, drivers, and the audience
- "Safety glasses required in pit at all times"
- 854 robot + robot modifications at the practice area
- 1334, 1404, 2013, 1565 pit area
- Karthik talking & glance at queue line
- 296, 2013, 2609, 2361 match... then loading + unloading robot
- 781, 1075, 1334, 2200 audience
- 1141, 854, 1815, 2935, 1310, 2702 match.. I think 854 ripped up a moonrock with their robot here
- 1075, 1305 audience
- 1565, 1404, 1075, 781, 1334, 2200 drivers
- 781 audience
26 Mississauga 1
Match between 188, 1305, 772, 781, 2056, 854
- 188, 1305, 772, 781, 2056, 854 match
- 781 human player (BRAAAAAAADDYYYYYY!!!!!)
- 188 robot
26 Mississauga 2
At the pit- construction work, teams, people, robots
- "Have you brought your Gracious Professionalism" sign
- 2634 and 2198 fixing their robot
- 2185 mascot dancing around
- 2013 pit.. and zoom on their awards
- 1605 robot work
- Lunacy volunteer working the Segway
26 Mississauga 3
At the pit and some clips from a match
- 1503 pit: working on the robot and their sign/banner
- people walking the shortcut from the pit to the field
- clips from the 188, 1305, 772, 781, 2056, 854 match
26 Mississauga 4
At the field: matches and the cheering section
- 2505, 1503 loading their robot
- I don't know the number.... but it's a human player with an orange cap. Really good at shooting!
- 1535 cheering
- 1312 audience
- man with flags on his safety glasses taking a video
27 Mississauga 1
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- human players
- 843, 1514, 610, 188, 1334, 1126, 2809, 2935, 1815 drivers
- 1535, 1815 human player
- 1514, 188, 1126 robot
- 1310, 2809, 1075 cheering/audience
- 1305 camera man
- Karthik talking ... hm.
- 854 mascot dancing
27 Mississauga 2
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- 781, 1006 robot
- 1846, 1114, 610, 1219, 2935, 188, 2013, 843, 1141 drivers
- 1224, 2809 human player
- Charles and the volunteers.. dancing and such
- 1310 cheering
27 Mississauga 3
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- 854, 677, 2056 robot
- 1114, 1075 audience/cheering/dancing
- 2076, 1312, 1244, 2386, 3117 drivers
- 1075 driver & driving coach... then turns to the cheering section witth 1075
- 610 camera man
- 854 human player
- Karthik
27 Mississauga 4
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section
- 2013, 1114 human player
- 1219, 1310 audience/cheering
- 188, 2076, 2505, 2809, 2634, 1503, 865, 2852, 2935 drivers
- 188, 1114, 1535, 2185, 2626, 2505 match.. more focused on 188
- 2056 robot
- 1547, 1075, 1305 doing the Macarena (:
- 1126 audience.. and their little dog plushie
- green bird mascot dancing around.. unknown team #?
27 Mississauga 5
Mainly the audience and the volunteers
- 1305, 188, 1535, 1075, 1547 YMCA
- various volunteers dancing or talking
28 Mississauga 1
Audience and the volunteers- all dancing clips
- 1075... dancing/cheering/doing the chicken dance (:
- 3 girls in black & red in the audience.. unknown team #?
- volunteers dancing around
28 Mississauga 2
Pit and robot inspection
- wandering around the pit... kinda looks like a convention!
- 2200, 1141, 781, 1126, 2013, 1305, 1310, 610, 1075, 1114, 188 were focused on
28 Mississauga 3
At the field: matches, audience, cheering section... KARTHIK WITH THE T-SHIRT CANNON!!!!
- Karthik & t-shirt cannon.. appears twice
- 1075 drivers & cart driver
- 772, 1075, 2809 audience/cheering
- 1310, 2505 drivers and coaches screaming about an empty cell
- Scores table
- 2935 drivers
- volunteer Steve with a camera
- 610, 2626, 1006, 2809, 1547, 2631 match clips
Phew.. Happy downloading! (:
Ah! The downloads are rolling!
Just noticed that videos from GTR aren't up on TheBlueAlliance.net yet.. Anyone know when those will be up?
cpeister
07-04-2009, 19:56
Well I have downloaded the codec and am now able to view them. The quality is exceptional, even in the small sized videos that I am viewing. Thanks so much Mark.
Mark Rozitis
07-04-2009, 20:50
Thanks and maybe next year I'll make a point of filming every team's pit and on the field as well, I didn't realize there would be this much interest/demand for that video but I guess there is.
I have 15 files from 2008 GTR, I'm experimenting with converting those .avi's to .wmv's and we'll see what the quality is like. The file sizes will be smaller and if that doesn't work then I'll upload the .avi's.
I just dragged all 15 files onto the timeline and set it to convert to .wmv and it's telling me it will take four hours with my CPU at 100% and that's on My Asus G50V supercomputer.
The stuff I shot this year might also have had better technical quality as I have had applied three firmware upgrades to my Sony XDcam and now I can really see the difference over last year.
The firmware upgrades thought didn't do anything with regards to the weight of the camera or make the angle of the lens any wider though :)
A friend of mine who works at CP24 has one of those Canon HDV's, amazing camera for just a fraction of the cost of what I'm using.
m
Well I have downloaded the codec and am now able to view them. The quality is exceptional, even in the small sized videos that I am viewing. Thanks so much Mark.
KevinReid
08-04-2009, 10:55
Mark, thanks for all your efforts. The high quality footage is great, useful for promo videos. Most of the other videos 'online' are too low quality to be very useful. We appreciate your work and hope you continue to help the FIRST community out with your video skills!
KevinReid
08-04-2009, 10:57
Ah! The downloads are rolling!
Just noticed that videos from GTR aren't up on TheBlueAlliance.net yet.. Anyone know when those will be up?
I uploaded the Saturday morning videos that we recorded this Monday, just a matter of TBA filing/linking to them. Did anyone else record Friday/Saturday afternoon? I can parse the videos if you have them!
I might have some of early saturday afternoon as filmed from the stands with my JVC everio. Its not really TBA quality though... (scoreboard and stuff)
Mark Rozitis
08-04-2009, 18:50
A file called 2008_GTR Broll is now uploading to the 781 server, it will be on there in full by 1am (Kincardine time), it's only 2.6G and it's a .wmv file, what I did here was take all my 2008 GTR Broll and drag it onto the timeline and render it down to this small 2.6G file, have a look, see if you like it and what the quality is like and if good I suppose I can FTP the higher quality .avi files up later towards the weekend. The original collection of files is not small so I thought I'd send up this preview file first and that will buy me enough time to get some work done on the wiring and UPS system here before I let the next 30G go and can't touch the system for 3 days :)
mark
Mark Rozitis
09-04-2009, 05:54
The 2008 GTR Broll files and making their way up now, the first one is a compressed .wmv of the whole lot and then the higher quality .avi's are making their way up one by one.
2008_GTR_regional broll (.wmv file)
16_king city hail (why you want to have hard hat with you at all times)
2008 FIRST award
2008 Bill Holtby award
2008 FIRST dance 2,3,4,5,7
2008 FIRST GTR comp day 1_1,2,3,4,5,6
2008 FIRST GTR comp day 2_1,2,3,4,5,6
2008 FIRST GTR practice day 1_2,3,4,
16_king city hail (why you want to have hard hat with you at all times when you storm chase using GPS and http://www.grlevelx.com/grlevel3/) :)
The technical quality of the 2008 stuff is not quite as good as the 2009 video but that's a lot in part due to three firmware upgrades since then for the camera I am using. It's not too bad though.
mark
sydney_1547
09-04-2009, 10:51
the gtr was so intense for waldo this year! we are really happy that we made it to the finals :)
good job to everyone else!
Mark Rozitis
11-04-2009, 20:34
Just an update here on the RAW .AVI's, ALL of the 2009 GTR and WAT stuff in up on the 781 server and the last of the 2008 GTR stuff should be up on there by 12 midnight tonight.
I feel sorry for whoever might be shot-listing all the 2008 stuff :)
Next year I will try to make a point of shooting at least five min of each team in the pits, field, stands etc, I had no clue there would be this much demand for this video especially since for news I don't really shoot each match through to completion, I am just looking for good pictures and jumping on to the next shot.
I'll also look into recording the production company's feed as well.
Team 781's FTP solution just made everything so much easier this year, thanks a lot for that.
Who knows, maybe by next year I will have my own FTP server if I figure out how to set one up and all that, there is a lot I'd like to do better for next year in terms of shooting style as well.
If anyone has any comments, suggestions etc feel free to post, I shoot news and severe weather all year so this is quite different and I'm sure there is room for improvement so if anyone has something they'd like to see for next year by all means suggest it.
As for any more "snowdays" this year for downloading and working with this video I believe winter is now over, I sent the snow end command and it was received so with the exception of the traditional flurries on the May 24 weekend it's over for this year. (famous last words) :)
mark
Yeah. SNOWDAY!
Mark Rozitis
26-05-2009, 22:35
Thanks so some assistance from Malice/Team 781 the MPEG-2 has been discovered and next year the file sizes will be smaller and just one T-6 line will do :)
and bandwidth!
lol
scottmacdonald
17-06-2009, 23:31
Just noticed that videos from GTR aren't up on TheBlueAlliance.net yet.. Anyone know when those will be up?
Can we can get who ever is in charge of the GTR videos to put them up on TBA (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/). For both '08 & '09.
Thanks if somebody is able to do this and for the videos already posted.
Can we can get who ever is in charge of the GTR videos to put them up on TBA (http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv/). For both '08 & '09.
Thanks if somebody is able to do this and for the videos already posted.
There was no official videos made. If there are any teams that copied the feed It would be great if a copy could be made available.
Ranana_Prussy
19-06-2009, 01:49
Well done Brinsley
Now dont forget to sort out a South London Regional Go Karting Team, your first job as rep, welcome to our world
Lee
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