[FTC]: Email Blast: FIELD MANAGEMENT FORMAT FOR FTC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

[PhilBot]

This just arrived in my in-box.... WOW !!!!!

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*All teams, mentors, coaches, volunteers *

We’re looking forward to an exciting World Championship in Atlanta next month and we’ve got some news that you need to know regarding the format of the competition.

We’ve decided to run the World Championships using the Field Management System (FMS) directly from each teams’ own computer.

*What it means*

It means that you’ll need the FMS on your computer, your two Gamepad controllers connected, and your robot linked to your computer via Bluetooth through the FMS (not your robot programming program). The FMS has been available for a couple months now $@# you can get it at http://www.ftctraining.com.

*Why we’re doing it*

We want to give teams more control and minimize cycle time between matches. If you’ve made it to this level you have the ability to do this and really take control over what happens at the field, in every respect.

By running the FMS directly from your own computer teams will be able to test their programs and robots in exactly the same conditions they will see in Atlanta.

Also, teams will arrive at the competition field already connected to their own computers via Bluetooth $@# eliminating the time spent pairing and reconnecting at the playing field.

*What you’ll need to do at the event*

You’ll need to bring a laptop to the Championship. You need LabVIEW loaded on it and the FMS. This will probably be the same computer you’re already using to program your robot. Before reaching the field, select your tele-op program, close down the connection between your programming software (LabVIEW, NXT-G, or RobotC) and your robot, open the FMS, connect to your robot via the FMS, choose your autonomous program on the NXT and you’re ready to compete.

At the start of autonomous and tele-op periods the referee or announcer will ask if the coach of each team is ready. Once all teams are ready they will count down the start of the match. On their instruction the coaches will simultaneously start the period. If necessary referees will decide if points are scored outside of the timed session if teams do not exactly hit “start” at the same time.

Bring your power cord to the fields as well. Power outlets will be provided at the queuing stations and at the field if you need them. Tables will be arranged to rest the laptops allowing teams to stand in front of the tables while the coach stands behind.

If for some reason a team’s computer quits or something else occurs a central FMS will also be available as a backup.

*What you should do now*

If you don’t already have it, download the FMS and get comfortable with it. You should be using it now to ensure that your code works with the FMS regardless. Practice with your robot as much as you’d like to iron out any issues and ensure that your robot performs well in Atlanta.

*Summary*

We used this method in the Florida State Championship. It reduced cycle times and no matches had to be replayed. Teams liked the ability to test their robots under the exact conditions they faced in the competition. We think this format will allow for an even better World Championship.


Thank you!

FTC Staff

[Overyourhead]

I got this too. I really really do not like this. I feel that there will be a delay in peoples auto and tele opp periods. In many matches some of the greatest moves happen in the last few seconds, and if some robots shut off before others it may make unfair plays.Also, out team always tends to have trouble connecting via blue tooth. This may cause more hassle than actually help speed up the process.
I'm open to opinions of others.

[gdo]

I can definately see the advantages of this system. Teams won't have to wait 10 minutes for everyone to get paired up to the FMS at the field. Rounds will go quicker as everyone will already be paired when they arrive at the field. I think it will make Atlanta run much quicker, especially with 100 teams all competing.

There are definately some problems that could arise, but overall I think it will work out very well for the tournaments flow. Lets not count out anything yet, I think in this case it might be better for it go this way. I am open to trying new things. Its not perfect, but I think its an improvement.

[Nate Smith]

I'm not personally involved with FTC right now, so these are just my random thoughts...

-I like the idea of pre-syncing to a personal bluetooth source, rather than having to reconnect to the field system, and then back to the personal system after the match, back and forth for the entire event.

-I do agree with the posts here, however, in regards to timing to ensure that everyone starts and ends at the same time.

I propose these modifications to the plan. I don't know how feasible this would be at this point, however, as it requires a modification to FMS.
1. Set up a system similar to how the FRC FMS is used - provide an ethernet cable for each team to connect to at the FTC field.
2. Each team's FMS would sync to a "master" system that FIRST was running.
3. This "master" FMS would communicate with each team's system to start and stop as needed. If necessary, the system could also perform a self-test of sorts when first synced, to prevent any modifications to the team FMS from taking place.

[dooey100]

1. Set up a system similar to how the FRC FMS is used - provide an ethernet cable for each team to connect to at the FTC field.
2. Each team's FMS would sync to a "master" system that FIRST was running.
3. This "master" FMS would communicate with each team's system to start and stop as needed. If necessary, the system could also perform a self-test of sorts when first synced, to prevent any modifications to the team FMS from taking place.

Thats pretty close to what it was before. (Except with a USB cable)

[Abra Cadabra IV]

Eh, I don't know about this. It has the potential to save a lot of time, but there's suddenly a lot more room for error.

Also, some questions I'd like to see addressed:

-We've had occasional problems with the FMS freezing/spazzing out (both in practice and in real matches). What would happen to a team who had the bad luck to have their FMS crash, especially if the other three teams experienced no problems? Would they be allowed to replay the match?

-In case of a robot burning up a motor/being stuck in an infinite loop/something else really bad, would that team be allowed to disable their robot and otherwise let the match continue? (Kind of like pressing the emergency stop button in FRC)

Clarifying these points would be great.

[ttldomination]

Eh, I'm just wondering,

that what is a laptop's bad? For example my laptop sometimes lags during a test run or something and the entire program goes down...yet it has ALL of our programming stuff on it...

I mean, there are so many different things going on, I'm pretty sure that someone will end up pointing fingures at one point or another.

[jbbjjbt]

It seems to me that they need to allow one more person at the field on each team to monitor the FMS, including starting, stoping and watching for it to get out of control. Also the logistics of having to drag a laptop around is not going to be fun. will they provide a table or is the laptop going to sit on the floor where it can be stepped on?

On a personal computer level, all the USB ports on my laptop have gotten loose and flakey from plugging and unplugging the USB cables so many times, so what computer will we use?

[JMT]

I don't like the way they're doing the FMS, because (1) What if a team doesn't own a laptop already? Will they have to buy a new one before Atlanta? (2) Seems like there could be teams not turning on the FMS at the right time, thus having matches where each robot runs for 2min but the match runs for 2min 5sec.

I agree with Jon T, I think they will need to allow another person on the field to run each team's FMS. The drivers and coach can't do that.

How about the Toshiba, Dad?

[gdo]

Something that came across my mind today was that FIRST used a Linksys USB Bluetooth dongle instead of the one provided to teams for competition. I am wondering if it would be worth while in procuring one of these dongles in addition to the one that we already have from the kit.

Anyone know if there is an advantage to either one of the dongles or why FIRST used the Linksys dongles at competition instead of the ones teams had?

I believe that this the correct Linksys Bluetooth Dongle that FIRST was using : http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/USBBT100

[Overyourhead]

Something that came across my mind today was that FIRST used a Linksys USB Bluetooth dongle instead of the one provided to teams for competition. I am wondering if it would be worth while in procuring one of these dongles in addition to the one that we already have from the kit.

Anyone know if there is an advantage to either one of the dongles or why FIRST used the Linksys dongles at competition instead of the ones teams had?

I believe that this the correct Linksys Bluetooth Dongle that FIRST was using : http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/products/USBBT100

I was wondering that too. My team set up the fields for RI the day before the competition. My team has found that the dongle included with the kit loses connection every now and then. The Linksys bluetooth seams to have better connectivity.

I wonder if FIRST will make teams use the dongle included in the kit or if we will be able to use any brand.

[gdo]

I think its something that we should ask FIRST. Because I do not want to risk losing the connection with the provided bluetooth if that is an issue that might arise.

[HUmar104]

I was at the Florida Regional and they already implemented this "each team uses their own computer" rule.
I'll comment that it ran very smoothly. The amount of delay per match was down to just putting the robots down and that was something to marvel.
In all my matches, i never saw one person push the start button too early or too late. While this won't necessarily be the case in all situations, i'm just noting that people's reaction speed and honesty are to be trusted.

As for the bluetooth dongle thing. I've already figured out that it comes down to simply the bluetooth stack. I noted that the bluetooth dongle they provide us uses the Generic Microsoft Bluetooth stack. I was basically sick of using the dongle they provided us with and wanted to simply used the built in bluetooth in my laptop. (even though a laptop comes with a different stack, it's very easy to convert the stack it uses with a system ini file, yell if you need this process. It should be possible to use the microsoft stack with any dongle. *should* but not guaranteed)

But looking at that linksys dongle they used. Yeah, i'm very sure that thing looks much better than the one they gave us..and for good reason. They're managing 4 robots on one computer.

I've had pretty good results with a $4 bluetooth dongle i found on dealextreme. So I'm not exactly positive if the linksys dongle would be "better" for our purposes.

[jbbjjbt]

I was at the Florida Regional and they already implemented this "each team uses their own computer" rule.
I'll comment that it ran very smoothly. The amount of delay per match was down to just putting the robots down and that was something to marvel.
In all my matches, i never saw one person push the start button too early or too late. While this won't necessarily be the case in all situations, i'm just noting that people's reaction speed and honesty are to be trusted.



Could you tell us more about thie method as implemented in Florida.

How many teams and fields were involved?

How far were the pits from the playing fields? I.E. Did you have to carry the laptops and game controllers around very far?

Were there tables for the laptops?

Was the laptop run by the coach(on the field)? If so did it take much of his/her time, effort concentration? I am concerned because our coach is a student and heavily involved in directing the drive team.

Thanks,

[HUmar104]

Could you tell us more about thie method as implemented in Florida.

How many teams and fields were involved?

How far were the pits from the playing fields? I.E. Did you have to carry the laptops and game controllers around very far?

Were there tables for the laptops?

Was the laptop run by the coach(on the field)? If so did it take much of his/her time, effort concentration? I am concerned because our coach is a student and heavily involved in directing the drive team.

Thanks,

24 teams. 2 fields.
Pits were in the rooms adjacent to the field. It was a 30 second walk if that.
Yes, there were tables for the laptops.
Yes, the laptop was run by the 3rd person, the coach. My coach was also a student that acts as "strategist". All you have to do is press a button at the beginning of autonomous and then at the beginning of teleop. There isnt any focus on the computer after you hit the button.

[emmell]

I totally agree with HUmar104 on that. I was an assistant FTA at Florida and it went perfectly. All matches on time, no field "problems" nor complaints. Each team had control of their own situation with pairing and couldn't blame the FMS for anything. For those teams that had problems with their FMS, there was one one field that could be used.

For Championships, and transporting from the pits in the GWCC to the Dome, I recommend getting something like a rolling cart (see http://www.target.com/3-Tier-Rolling-Cart/dp/B000063SI0/sr=1-2/qid=1238339630/ref=sr_1_2/192-5732833-9837831?ie=UTF8&frombrowse=0&index=target&rh=k%3Arolling%20cart&page=1 for an example). Something that can carry your laptop and the robot and possibly a small tool box for carrying zip ties, batteries and the like.

As for the coach, he just had to push the button (Start/Continue) twice. And then he could help the team with the strategy during driver control. There was power for the laptops on the field (which FIRST will provide at Championships as well). There was never a problem with the coaches not hitting the button at the wrong time.

This option will be great for all teams in getting them on the field and playing all their matches on time. Hopefully, we will get more than 5 matches per team, but I haven't heard what that will be.

[gdo]

As emmell said, those rolling carts are very useful at the internationals. With the long walk from the pit area to the field, you will grow tired of carrying the robot (and now laptop) and whatever spares you might need at the field. We got one for last years internationals and just made everything move much easier for our team, especially during the eliminations when we couldn't get back and forth between the field and the pits for extra parts.

The test case of Florida certainly makes the concept look like it will work very well. I didn't hear of many problems at all from Florida, so I am optimistic about the FMS format for Atlanta. I am just worried about having so many robots running at once, we will see how the bluetooth will run with so many active connections. Hopefully everything will run as smoothly as it did in Florida :).

[ttldomination]

i got tired of carrying the robot 20 feet from the pits to the field at the GA tournament, so I'm sure world will definitely be a pain without a cart.

[gdo]

The walk from the pits last year to the field was a good 5-10 minutes depending on which route you took. Doing that several times a day will get a little long and you will love the cart by the end of the tournament. I know we really loved having the cart. Now with the robot, laptop, parts.... its all going to add up :)