America's Top Public High Schools

[JohnBoucher]

Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/id/201160/?q=2009/rank/1) puts this list out each year.
Is your school on it and where?
Is there a relationship between FIRST and "top" high schools?

[Mark McLeod]

Hauppauge is 394
Too bad it wasn't ranked 358 :)


P.S.
I looked at the Long Island schools for this FRC list. Some of the FRC teams are now defunct.

Rank Team # School
37 Jericho (defunct)
54 2638 Great Neck South
76 2875 Cold Spring Harbor
110 496 Vandermeulen
116 2872 Wheatley
158 Manhasset (defunct)
167 1803 Schreiber
207 373 Locust Valley (defunct)
267 2869 Bethpage
350 353 Plainview-Old Bethpage JFK
389 514 Miller Place
394 358 Hauppauge
468 1554 Oceanside
610 1019 Westhampton Beach (defunct)
642 352 Carle Place
656 28 Pierson
765 263 Sachem North
950 1358 MacArthur
957 569 W. Tresper Clarke
967 263 Sachem East
997 2161 Walt Whitman
1097 1751 Comsewogue
1174 1606 Division Avenue
1178 2487 Sayville
1385 527 Plainedge
1401 311 East Islip (defunct)
For the LI teams PoBots came closest to matching their FRC team number #350 for team 353.

[Joe Ross]

#4 is team 86
#10 is team 812

Here are some previous threads on top high school lists:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59882
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38007
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20878

Team 469's school was #1 in 2003, and had a picture in Newsweek. They are 22nd this year.

[Phyrxes]

#406 is team 2068

[GaryVoshol]

There are 33 teams from Michigan in the rankings - which is as close to the list that Killer Bees will get, since they're not from a public school. :D

469 is ranked #22. Many other teams are also on the list, some from teams in more than one school, including 503, 226, 217, 247, 1189, 1504, and others that I can't recall the numbers right now.

[Karibou]

1189's two schools are ranked 857 & 434...same district, same curriculum, but very different ranks. At North, where I go, a lot of kids take AP classes just because. Hardly anyone takes normal Psych, they all take AP instead. There's also a lot of pressure from parents, teachers, etc. A lot of kids end up in AP classes because of pressure, and they end up doing badly in the classes because of it.

Is it like this in any other schools?

[Katie_UPS]

half of 1675 (we're a two school collaboration) is ranked 271. The other half is a technical school and I don't think it offers AP (and I know not IB) classes.


I'm wondering if the wealth of the school has anything to do with how well it ranks. Schools with more money can help pay for more tests...

[Libby K]

Team 1923 is made of two schools, West Windsor-Plainsboro North, which is ranked #678 and South, which is #510. Both schools are recognized as Blue Ribbon, and are ranked within the top 10 every year for the state.

[Bertman]

LASA, Team 418, aka Purple Haze is #35

[JaneYoung]

LASA, Team 418, aka Purple Haze is #35

There's a bunch of schools from Texas. I also noticed that 2468, Westlake, is #72, 2583 from Westwood is #88, and 2158 from Anderson is #466. Killeen, FRC 647, is #955. That's as far as I've gotten.

I did a search for Austin and Round Rock schools and it looks like nearly every school listed has a BEST robotics team.

[ttldomination]

Team 1771 - North Gwinnett High School - Rank 212

Team 1261 - Peachtree Ridge High School - Rank 648

While It is apparent that there is somewhat of a correlation, I don't think that it is that big of a factor. 40 or so students out of 3000+ students cannot change the numbers that much.

[MrForbes]

Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/id/201160/?q=2009/rank/1) puts this list out each year.
Is your school on it and where?


I can't even get the page to load.....I guess I won't make the list.

[Travis Hoffman]

I'm wondering if the wealth of the school has anything to do with how well it ranks. Schools with more money can help pay for more tests...

Most, if not all, of the Northern Ohio schools I recognize from that list are in well-to-do communities, some extremely so.

[Burmeister #279]

Most, if not all, of the Northern Ohio schools I recognize from that list are in well-to-do communities, some extremely so.

Ottowa[sp?] Hills. -_-

Can somebody check our team's school for me, i can't get the page to load (my connection is so bad right now i'm only getting 70% of the page >_< )
its Toledo Technology Academy. thanks =)

ps, if i hadn't gone back to this page to tell everybody this, my view would have been the 279'th view XD

[smurfgirl]

#162 (Connecticut's top high school for the year, Farmington) is Team 178, The Enforcers.

[ginosoprano09]

There's a bunch of schools from Texas.

2585 from Bellaire is #135, 1898 from Westside is #183, 624 from Cinco Ranch is #458, 2587 from Lamar is #838, 2880 from Ball is #976

[BrendanB]

Ottowa[sp?] Hills. -_-

Can somebody check our team's school for me, i can't get the page to load (my connection is so bad right now i'm only getting 70% of the page >_< )
its Toledo Technology Academy. thanks =)

ps, if i hadn't gone back to this page to tell everybody this, my view would have been the 279'th view XD

Your school is not on the list.

Only two New Hampshire schools made the list.

Hollis Brookline- 1073 (ranks 1228)
Southegan- 138 (ranks 1467)

[Joe Ross]

I'm wondering if the wealth of the school has anything to do with how well it ranks. Schools with more money can help pay for more tests...

#56 is a relatively new charter school from Hawthorne, CA, a poorer area. The two closest public schools are in the bottom 20% of the state rankings.

[AdamHeard]

Team 294 is #299 with Mira Costa, and #738 with Redondo Union.

687 is #351

[sanddrag]

589's school is #346

[Ivan Helmrich]

Lincoln College Prep Academy, home of the Tigerbytes team #1775, is 127 on the list.

One indication of wealth is the "Subs Lunch" number. Higher numbers reflect a higher percentage of students who get subsidized meals at school. Schools numbered 9 and 10 have subsidized lunch numbers of 2% and 100% respectively. The whole range is represented.

[PaW]

Issaquah High School made the cut at number 1106.

My other son attends Interlake High School (Saints Robotics FRC 1899 & Rick Tyler's favorite adopted VEX team ;) ) did well on the Newsweek survey at number 18.

[Mike8519]

Team 303 is ranked #1075 - Bridgewater-Raritan High School

[Wayne C.]

North Brunswick (25) isn't on the list. I guess we are just ghetto

[Koko Ed]

There are 33 teams from Michigan in the rankings - which is as close to the list that Killer Bees will get, since they're not from a public school. :D

469 is ranked #22. Many other teams are also on the list, some from teams in more than one school, including 503, 226, 217, 247, 1189, 1504, and others that I can't recall the numbers right now.

I remember back in 2005 not only was their school number one but the robotics teams was the main picture for the article showing off their Championship trophy and robot.

[iwin2000]

Team 2168 is #1119.

[JB987]

Interesting to note that the rating is based on number of tests taken but doesn't reflect performance on the tests. Some schools force all or most of their kids to take AP level courses and subsidize the costs of the tests as well and pass rates are not impressive...I would prefer to see the average scores considered as part of the criterion for ratings.

[David Brinza]

Almost half of Team 980's students attend South Pasadena HS (ranked #787).

There are a bunch of SoCal FRC teams whose schools are on the list, several have already been mentioned.

[Carol]

Has anyone compared the percentage of schools on the list that have FIRST teams with the percentage of schools not on the list? Or rather, it may be easier to compare to the percentage of schools nationwide that have FIRST teams.

[Jetweb]

Interesting to note that the rating is based on number of tests taken but doesn't reflect performance on the tests. Some schools force all or most of their kids to take AP level courses and subsidize the costs of the tests as well and pass rates are not impressive...I would prefer to see the average scores considered as part of the criterion for ratings.

the majority of 179's students come from Suncoast, ranked #7 this year and was 3rd last year. every one of them would tell you that these rating mean nothing for the exact reasons mentioned by JB, they were actually angry that the district was making it seem like an accomplishment.

[Burmeister #279]

Thanks Brendan. I don't remember ever bein on the newsweek list but we've always been blue ribbon in ohio. 'gratz to those who made it though =)

[Brad Voracek]

Not on the list.

Not surprising.

Our HS is not very good at all.

[katd30]

One of 2642's students goes to JH Rose High, is #688. Odd though, since Rose is known for having the lowest AP scores in our area and the highest dropout rate. So maybe Newsweek should not release this list until mid-July when AP scores do come out so it reflects the school's performance. However, I do realize that College Board and who ever distributes the IB and Cambridge tests may not release average scores per school to the general public.

Also, it only compares how many tests were taken, not how many students took AP tests. There is one girl at my high school who took a test every day of the 2 weeks of testing, and took 2 on several days. The list also does not reflect the number of dropouts versus graduating seniors. Or the fact that many sophomores, juniors, and even freshman take AP exams as well (I took 2 as a sophomore, as did half the sophomore and junior classes).

Newsweek also doesn't look at other types of classes. Many students at my freshman/sophomore year high school take Concurrent Enrollment classes at the local community college. And my junior/senior year high school has an articulation agreement with 2 state universities where we receive X numbers of hours for a class without taking an AP exam. Many of the students that take advantage of this agreement enter college as a 2nd semester sophomore or as a junior.

So... Sorry for the long post. My mind just kind of kept spiraling and I blabber a lot. But here is a good question, I think: What do the schools on the list receive? Maybe not from Newsweek, but in terms of funding and publicity?

[Katie_UPS]

So... Sorry for the long post. My mind just kind of kept spiraling and I blabber a lot. But here is a good question, I think: What do the schools on the list receive? Maybe not from Newsweek, but in terms of funding and publicity?

Bragging rights, really. "Send your kid here! Newsweek ranked us the top in the state!"
Which in turn, helps the school. The more you can "brag", the more kids apply. As more kids apply, the competitveness goes up. Ideally, the smarter kids will get in, and the collaboritive intelligence goes up.

Although, don't get me wrong, letting kids who aren't as 'smart', but want to learn, into the system does just as much, if not more, good than just letting 'smart' kids in.

[DMetalKong]

the majority of 179's students come from Suncoast, ranked #7 this year and was 3rd last year. every one of them would tell you that these rating mean nothing for the exact reasons mentioned by JB, they were actually angry that the district was making it seem like an accomplishment.

Besides the fact that APs do not even make up all of the advanced courses that can be offered by a high school.

[ehochstein]

My school unfortunatly is not ranked in there, but in our state we are ranked in the top ten for test scores >.>

[FIRSTgirl675]

Unfortunately my school is not on the list, but we are a small, science, engineering/technology, and math based school of 240 with low funding from the district because of budget cuts. We do have the top state testing scores in 4 counties. The closest school to Team 675's is located about 15 min south, and it is ranked 1070.

[Arty]

#34-Newport High School
Newport Robotics Group (NRG948) #948
:)

[dtengineering]

I just want to make sure that everyone is taking this list about as seriously as when the National Enquirer runs a story on "Hollywoods Hottest 100 Stars".

They are both judged by equally scientific comparisons and are both equally as meaningful.

I am sure that there are some excellent high schools on the list, just as I am pretty sure that there might be some "hot" Hollywood Stars on the other list... that doesnt' mean the list is meaningful. The main purpose of the article... as much as the authors might protest... is to sell magazines.

There is no such thing as the "best" school for all students, just as no teacher is the "best" teacher for all students. The ultimate arbiter of a school's "goodness" is the student and their family.

So why correlate FRC teams to what is essentially little more than a random list?

Jason

[Jon Jack]

Our school doesn't offer IB or AP, so not on the list.

[BandChick]

North Brunswick (25) isn't on the list. I guess we are just ghetto

Hightstown (1089) isn't on there either. Guess we just have to stick together!

[Koko Ed]

Wilson Magnet is 148th.
They were as high as 24th a few years ago.

[JesseK]

AP classes, IMO, are great if one wants a harder class or wants to see what college classes are like. They're TERRIBLE for replacing a college course. Don't do an AP Calc, Chem, or Physics class in high school and expect that you'll know even half of everything you'd get out of a good college's Calc I, Physics I, or Chem I class. As an engineer or scientist, this really only sets you up for failure in the follow-up courses.

In the world of No Child Left Behind, test results are all we have to rate education these days :rolleyes:. If only someone were able to get past the red tape and implement a Taxonomy on Education Objectives (http://www.amazon.com/Taxonomy-Educational-Objectives-Handbook-Cognitive/dp/B0018DEW84/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244661078&sr=8-1) -style program in an entire school system. Then we'd have measurable results for a non-subjective article that aren't based upon funding or 'status'.

[henryBsick]

Team #125

Boston Latin High School
2009: 165
2008: 119
2007: 79
2006: 82

Brookline High School
2007: 1118
2006: 784
2005: 819

[Lil' Lavery]

I was shocked when I didn't see perennial #1 Thomas Jefferson High School at #1 on the list. I was even more shocked when I didn't see them at all. Then I found out they had joined the "elite list" (http://www.newsweek.com/id/201138) of schools that are not considered because of their magnet/GT status (though others remain in the 1500, the criteria seem arbitrary). While TJHS doesn't have a FIRST team (not for a lack of effort, but the administration values student independence, so they don't like the mentor-based aspects of FIRST), several others on that list do. Maggie Walker Governor's School (422), North Carolina School of Science and Mathematics (900), Bronx High School of Science (1155), Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy (2022), Oklahoma School of Science and Mathematics (1742), Stuyvesant High School (694), and Whitney High School (1135) all have teams (a majority of the "public elite").

Bergen County Academies has a BBIQ team and High Technology High has a MATE team, but no apparent FIRST teams at either. Union County Magnet High School used to have a team (1257), but it disbanded.

As for my alma mater (home of Team 116), Herndon High School placed 164th (19th in Virginia).

[ExarKun666]

La Canada is ranked 231. Our team number is 2429. :cool:

[smurfgirl]

AP classes, IMO, are great if one wants a harder class or wants to see what college classes are like. They're TERRIBLE for replacing a college course. Don't do an AP Calc, Chem, or Physics class in high school and expect that you'll know even half of everything you'd get out of a good college's Calc I, Physics I, or Chem I class. As an engineer or scientist, this really only sets you up for failure in the follow-up courses.

For the most part I'd agree with this, but it really depends on the quality of your AP teacher, as well as on what you plan to study in college.

For example, I took AP Calculus BC in high school. My teacher was fantastic. He always went well beyond the explanations and examples expected for the AP curriculum; he truly wanted us to understand how to apply what we were learning, how it worked, and how it was derived from other principles we knew. He loved showing us special tricks and applications. His enthusiasm and passion for math was contagious. Even though I knew he was a terrific teacher and I felt I had a solid grip on calculus after his class, I wasn't sure if that would be good enough for MIT. I decided to enroll in the math sequence that does a six-week review of single-variable, and then goes on to all of vector/multi-variable calculus for the rest of the semester. It turns out that even with MIT's rigor, I learned nothing in the first six weeks of class, because I had already learned it in my high school AP class. Maybe my class was exceptional. But I do think that it's worth it to use your AP credit if you truly have a good grasp on the subject... or if you don't plan to use the subject extensively. For example, I got a 5 on the AP French exam. I'm an engineer, not a French major, so I'm going to use that as a sign that I don't have to retake French III and IV here to make sure I remember every single verb conjugation 100%.


As for a school's merit being based off of their AP/IB offerings and results, I think it's a somewhat arbitrary criterion. Some schools which may not offer AP/IB courses may have equally or even further challenging offerings, but they choose not to buy into the AP thing. Though companies like CollegeBoard try not to advertise this, the standardized test industry is a lot about profit, and not necessarily about a solid education.

Furthermore, high scores on AP tests don't necessarily correlate to a good grasp of the subject matter, or ability to apply it in the real world. Scoring well on certain AP exams or other standardized tests corresponds to a lot of "memorization" of facts, or learning how to tailor your formatting to their expectations for high scores. Not scoring well on standardized tests doesn't necessarily mean that you don't understand a subject or can't apply yourself in the real world. Some people who may get nervous on tests or take longer than the allotted time, but may be able build a beautifully functional robot with structural integrity which solves a problem well, and explain all of the physics in it even if they bombed their AP physics exam.

I am by no means trying to take away from the merit of the schools on the list. They certainly all offer a comprehensive and high-quality education to their students. I am just trying to point out that in some cases, there may be more than meets the eye. Maybe other schools who are also terrific are getting overlooked because they don't offer AP/IB courses.

[EricH]

[...] Whitney High School (1135) all have teams (a majority of the "public elite").WHS doesn't run an FRC team anymore due to (lack of) funding and school support. Their VEX/FTC (not sure which they do these days) is still going strong, as is their FLL team, at least, last I checked they were.

[waialua359]

If we ranked teams based on AP scores, I'm pretty sure we'd be 32xx out of 32xx. :ahh:
Or not make the list.
Or be dead last of the Hawaii FIRST teams.

[smurfgirl]

If we ranked teams based on AP scores, I'm pretty sure we'd be 32xx out of 32xx. :ahh:
Or not make the list.
Or be dead last of the Hawaii FIRST teams.

Like I said in my previous post, AP scores are not everything. (This is one of the reasons that I think a lot of the "rankings" of schools locally and across the country are somewhat pointless; there are so many criteria that aren't analyzed that should be, and some that are taken into account that are can be false indicators, like AP scores.)

If what you say is true, then your team is a brilliant example of the point I am trying to prove. Standardized test scores are not always a good indication of someone's ability to understand a subject and apply themselves to a real-world task (like building a robot) or to communicate effectively to make meaningful contributions to the world (like community service).

[Anna B.]

If Burncoat High ever made that list... well... I don't have to worry about that because it's not happening any time soon. :)

[Andrew Schreiber]

AP classes, IMO, are great if one wants a harder class or wants to see what college classes are like. They're TERRIBLE for replacing a college course. Don't do an AP Calc, Chem, or Physics class in high school and expect that you'll know even half of everything you'd get out of a good college's Calc I, Physics I, or Chem I class. As an engineer or scientist, this really only sets you up for failure in the follow-up courses.

In the world of No Child Left Behind, test results are all we have to rate education these days :rolleyes:. If only someone were able to get past the red tape and implement a Taxonomy on Education Objectives (http://www.amazon.com/Taxonomy-Educational-Objectives-Handbook-Cognitive/dp/B0018DEW84/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244661078&sr=8-1) -style program in an entire school system. Then we'd have measurable results for a non-subjective article that aren't based upon funding or 'status'.

I have to agree that tests are a pretty crappy way to measure education but to say that AP classes don't teach you what you need to know is outright wrong. (based solely on my experience so take it with a grain of salt) I took Calculus AB in high school, passed the test and took Calc 2 my first term at Kettering. Throughout the class I was bored because I had already learned 95% of the material. I did eventually struggle with Calc 3 but I believe that was more due to my being sick through roughly 20% of the class. About AP classes, they MAY teach you the material (this is up for debate) but they will NOT prepare you for college. Too many times I heard teachers tell me that AP classes are like college classes, now after 2 years in college I can safely tell you that none of my classes have been like any of the AP classes I took. Don't go into college thinking you are going to be fine because you got A's in your AP classes.

I just want to make sure that everyone is taking this list about as seriously as when the National Enquirer runs a story on "Hollywoods Hottest 100 Stars".

They are both judged by equally scientific comparisons and are both equally as meaningful.
Jason


WAIT! Those lists aren't serious :ahh: I thought they were, isn't that what we vote on every couple Novembers?

[waialua359]

Like I said in my previous post, AP scores are not everything. (This is one of the reasons that I think a lot of the "rankings" of schools locally and across the country are somewhat pointless; there are so many criteria that aren't analyzed that should be, and some that are taken into account that are can be false indicators, like AP scores.)

If what you say is true, then your team is a brilliant example of the point I am trying to prove. Standardized test scores are not always a good indication of someone's ability to understand a subject and apply themselves to a real-world task (like building a robot) or to communicate effectively to make meaningful contributions to the world (like community service).

If you ever came to Hawaii and asked about a college-prep curriculum at our school, no one would even consider sending their kid to Waialua.
Part of our (robotics program) mission at our school, is trying to change that mentality. Private schools in Hawaii only accept the creme of the crop and you have your fair share of public schools that I refer to as the "public private schools." Almost all of them have FIRST teams now.
The pressure for us to deliver a high-level program to continue to attract high-level sponsorship from large businesses and foundations..................well, lets just say its beyond the roof.
My role on the team has slowly moved from construction team to lead administrator/coordinator/coach/documentation-leader in order to solely work on this aspect of our team.

[Phyrxes]

At our school we have some students that are so competitive with each other that the valedictorian/salutatorian is largely a function of who can get more A's in AP classes. I know we have kids taking 4 to 5 AP classes a year. as Juniors and Seniors and 2 to 3 as Sophomores. Anytime a significant portion of the population is taking that many AP classes (and tests) and usually scoring "okay" or better its skews a list like this.

[RMiller]

AP classes, IMO, are great if one wants a harder class or wants to see what college classes are like. They're TERRIBLE for replacing a college course. Don't do an AP Calc, Chem, or Physics class in high school and expect that you'll know even half of everything you'd get out of a good college's Calc I, Physics I, or Chem I class. As an engineer or scientist, this really only sets you up for failure in the follow-up courses.


I am sorry, but I have to agree with

... but to say that AP classes don't teach you what you need to know is outright wrong.

Again, this is from my experience.
I took AP Calc BC as a sophomore, then went on to take linear algebra as a correspondence course junior year, Calc 3 and Diffy Q as a senior at a local college. I took stats in college. I had no problem whatsoever.
I took AP Chem as a sophomore then analytical chem as a senior at a local college without any issue. I got a degree in chemical engineering and chemistry without too much difficulty (other than late nights because I would fall asleep too much in lecture :yikes:)
I took AP Bio as a junior. In my second year at college I took the required biomolecular engineering class (for ChemE) and was bored to sleep (literally).
I took AP Physics B (non-calc based) as an online class junior year. In the honors calc-based physics I did struggle some, but in the non-honors class second semester, I was bored enough to rarely come to class.
I took AP Micro and Macro econ as an online class senior year. In my fourth year at college, I took intermediate microecon. I worked more often on Senior Labs than listened in class and breezed through.

So, AP Classes can definitely replace college classes. If you put the time into it in high school, it can be of value later.
Are there people who struggle with college classes, even if they took AP Classes? Absolutely.
There is no across the board answer. If you are the least bit unsure, it might be wise to retake the class (and risk an easy A).

Note: I do not advise sleeping, skipping, or working on other classes in college.

Side Note: I do agree with others that [(#AP (or IB) Tests Taken in a year)/(students graduating)] is not a very indicative measure of a school.

2¢

[Abra Cadabra IV]

#231 is team 2429, and #346 is team 589.

[jmanela]

#580 Andover High School 2834 Bionic Barons

[miketwalker]

Team 1902 has numerous schools involved since they are 4H, but the main public schools appeared on the list (#166 Winter Park, #414 Lake Brantley, #686 Timber Creeek)

[Rick TYler]

Looking at the list, I'd say at least half of the top schools in Washington have FRC teams. Redmond High is #684 and makes up more than half the Exothermic Robotics Club, which competes in VRC and FTC, but not FRC.

[Rick TYler]

My other son attends Interlake High School (Saints Robotics FRC 1899 & Rick Tyler's favorite adopted VEX team ;) ) did well on the Newsweek survey at number 18.

I'll say they are my favorite adopted team. Some of the FRC 1899 students joined our club, built a VEX robot, and took it to VRC Worlds where they ended being an alliance captain. Nice kids and good robot builders to boot.

[Ryan Curry]

....and High Technology High has a MATE team, but no apparent FIRST teams..

HTHS is formerly Team #30 1997-2004. Hopefully some of our NJ BMS friends still remember us....

-Ryan Curry

[James Tonthat]

Team 1477 is (mainly) The Woodlands-College Park, rank 280.

[deusex]

Maggie Walker is on the public elite list and I'm the build manager for the team there.