New Game Hint? - Crackerjacks, Haagen-Dazs cups and Diet Coke cans?

[EgROS]

We might have our first game hint of the year!
Check it out at Bill's Blog: http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009/07/what-do-crackerjacks-have-to-do-with.html

He mentions 3 distinct shapes:
Diet Coke cans- cylinders
Crackerjack cases- boxes
Haagen-Dazs cups- frustums

Could these be the three shapes of next years game pieces?

[ttldomination]

Please look around the forum, I believe this clue is already under discussion and has been overly dissected.

[rtfgnow]

This post from Bill's Blog has not been discussed, you are thinking of this thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=77965 about a post a few weeks later. The post that this thread is about has not been mentioned on CD.

[Chris is me]

I'm trying to figure out what any of those have to do with using one's head. Hmmm..... Any ideas?

[gorrilla]

I'm trying to figure out what any of those have to do with using one's head. Hmmm..... Any ideas?

well you have to eat them all.....collecting something?

[Karibou]

I'm sure you all remember these (https://www4959.ssldomain.com/toysoup/store/ProdImages/PLA-Shape&Sort-2.jpg)...
I could see a game that involves sorting items. It'd just be incredibly challenging, and rely a lot on the new camera and/or the drivers

$0.02

[EricH]

This post from Bill's Blog has not been discussed, you are thinking of this thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=77965 about a post a few weeks later. The post that this thread is about has not been mentioned on CD.Oh?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=865508&highlight=crackerjack#post865508

It just didn't have its own thread.

[Mr. Pockets]

I still think that it has something to do with stacking things. Maybe on the robot as opposed to on the field in referrence to the bit about using your head (balancing on your head):confused: .

[rtfgnow]

Sorry Eric, I don't follow much in this forum.

[jmanela]

maybe you put the different game elements inside of the boxes?

[Elgin Clock]

If a game involving shape seperation & organization finally emerges in 2010, I will echo the statement of many with a great big "FINALLY!!!"

The idea of a game with that element to it has been discussed since I joined FIRST way back in 2001 - & I'm sure well before.... ::safety::

[Katie_UPS]

I'm trying to figure out what any of those have to do with using one's head. Hmmm..... Any ideas?


The ice-cream containers... I'm telling you! Its a lamp-shade!

[Mr. Pockets]

Hmm what about a tetris game? The idea was tossed around at a robot demo today, and it does make a bit of sense with the different shapes bit. Don't have the first (pardon the pun) clue how you'd make a robotics game out of it though.

Edit: Oops, thanks iCurtis (Silly spell-check >.<).

[Fe_Will]

Hmm what about a tetras game? The idea was tossed around at a robot demo today, and it does make a bit of sense with the different shapes bit. Don't have the first (pardon the pun) clue how you'd make a robotics game out of it though.

2005 Triple Play

[Ian Curtis]

2005 Triple Play

I think Mr. Pockets might have meant tetris. Tetras does fit rather nicely though...

[NalaTI]

I'm trying to figure out what any of those have to do with using one's head. Hmmm..... Any ideas?

I figured that there was something (a cross beam or bar) in the air and he hit his head on it while trying to duck under it...

[BrendanB]

I'm trying to figure out what any of those have to do with using one's head. Hmmm..... Any ideas?

You can eat the contents of the containers.... maybe he wanted to make sure that this years game pieces can be recycled from other common household items meaning no Walmart not stocking orbit balls YAY!!!

Man that doesn't make sense, but at least there is less than 4.5 months left until we find out what it is. Maybe i should pack these items for lunch during kickoff for good luck.:rolleyes:

[Karibou]

You can eat the contents of the containers.... maybe he wanted to make sure that this years game pieces can be recycled from other common household items meaning no Walmart not stocking orbit balls YAY!!!
I can really see them going green this year, and trying to cut back on costs. Maybe not quite to the point where we can make game pieces from common household items (though I really would like to see a toaster used as a game piece - toast game? called it.), but where the game pieces are more eco-friendly, or something of the sort.

Diet coke cans can be recycled ::safety:: You can even get money from them! Hmm...kind of sounds like a variation of this year's Super Cell to me.

On the subject of a Tetris game...the 8 hours a week I wast--err, spend playing tetris might come in handy :D

[SCROSSLEY-GCEC]

Ice cream + head = brain freeze
:P
ice game

[Robert Cawthon]

Ice cream + head = brain freeze
:P
ice game

Sometimes I think that is a normal state of mind for me! :confused:

[MiniNerd24]

Diet coke cans can be recycled ::safety:: You can even get money from them! Hmm...kind of sounds like a variation of this year's Super Cell to me.
I think you just struck the nail on the head there. Recycling has been a big theme lately, especially for FIRST, the insight about it resembling last year's empty cell was a nice touch too! I think the game will be related to a variety of shapes that need to be exchanged with bigger points for different shapes collected, recycled, and played. Perhaps we'll need to use camera code to sort out the game pieces by color or shape.

[Dragonos]

Robots will have to sort recycling! Put Aluminum in the aluminum box, paper in he paper box, or shoot plastic over a goal for bonus points!
You will have to find ways to detect these objects.
1 Aluminum Magnets.
2 Lasers to catch the paper on fire.
3 Advanced particle analysis.
4 Light sensors
5 Cameras AKA fancy Light sensors

[Mr. Pockets]

You will have to find ways to detect these objects.
1 Aluminum Magnets.
2 Lasers to catch the paper on fire.
3 Advanced particle analysis.
4 Light sensors
5 Cameras AKA fancy Light sensors
Well, I have a few ideas about where quite a few rookie teams will be spending Dean's donation.

You know though, if they really want to push a recycling theme what if they made a game with two ways to score. One way would be very easy to pull off, but would only provide lower point scores (sort of like just throwing stuff out). The other way would be slightly more time consuming, but would yield greater rewards (along the same lines as recycling). If you factor in varying point values for different shaped game pieces...

[Karibou]

You know though, if they really want to push a recycling theme what if they made a game with two ways to score. One way would be very easy to pull off, but would only provide lower point scores (sort of like just throwing stuff out). The other way would be slightly more time consuming, but would yield greater rewards (along the same lines as recycling). If you factor in varying point values for different shaped game pieces.

That sounds awfully similar to what happens in FLL...you put in the extra effort, and get more points for it.

[lady lighting]

i still think the theme is going GREEN

[rcmolloy]

WALL-E style robots anyone? Lol

[swarm420]

Hmm... perhaps its a food competition? :p
Robots need to deliver the specified food to a human player, who must then eat the food. The team witht he most food eaten wins.

I CALL DIBS ON THE HAAGEN DAZ! :D

For all we know, could they just realease hints, have us talk about it on here, and then get the contest from one of us? :yikes:

[FIRSTtm134]

Due to last years 3D animation being that you had to use something from the environment and all of the items being recyclable, I would have to agree the robots are going to have to sort things, maybe not small things like cans but maybe a larger item such as large plastic barrels or maybe since when you flip a Haagen Dazs carton over it looks like a cone we might have to do something with traffic cones?

[andrew348]

Maybe we are just building vending machines:yikes:

[Mr. Pockets]

Maybe we are just building vending machines
Dang it!
I was honestly just watching someone repair one earlier today.
So much for getting a head start ^_-

[Dragonos]

Hmmm MIT made can crushing robots in their FIRST-like class....

[Vermeulen]

I've been thinking about this, and it seems to me like this will be a sorting game with two pieces, such as sorting the caramel corn and peanuts from a crackerjack box. The two game pieces, the "popcorn" and "peanuts" could possibly be a frustum and a cylinder.

[MikePres]

Remember the loose connections between last years clues to the real game?
i won't be surprised if this happens again this time...

what about the date of the kick-off?
what about the connection of those snacks to american history?
what about the connection between the snack and the places they were born (Coca-Cola & Atlanta, for example...)
at this point it can be anything ><

[Steven_585]

Coca-Cola deadquareters in Atlanta.
Cracker Jacks first sold at Chicago World's Fair in 1893 (this is also the same world's fair that Nikola Tesla lit with Alternating Curren light and brough AC into the mainstream versus Edison's DC)
Haagen-Dazs created by Polish immigrants in Bronx, New York, in 1961.


:confused:
:D

[Mr. Pockets]

Good thinking

Here are some wiki results with the same year as the release of Cracker Jacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1893)(1893)

Along with some wiki results for 1961 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961)
Any thoughts?

[Karibou]

Good thinking

Here are some wiki results with the same year as the release of Cracker Jacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1893)(1893)

Along with some wiki results for 1961 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961)
Any thoughts?

I just looked over the list, and didn't really see much (of course, if it's some kind of connection between the two years, I'll let someone else cross-reference the pages, but that might be looking TOO deep). I think that if it had anything to do with the dates, it would be glaringly obvious (dates can't hide much), so researching any of the events in those years would probably be digging TOO much.

I'm sticking with my recycling/going green theory :/

[Chris is me]

1961 is notably the most recent upside-down year (years written identically when inverted). There won't be another until 6009. Perhaps the game deals with inversions, turns something on its head, etc.

Like Dave Lavery's head...

[EricH]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but...

In Bill's last blog, he again noted Haagen-Dazs, but this time in conjunction with tacos. Now, this may simply mean that Dave and his mysterious never-ending stomach (or Dean) suddenly have a taste for ice cream, but I'm thinking a little more crazy.Throw in gallons of Haagen-Dazs, a mountain of tacos and several interesting dry runs of the new game and it was a full weekend.Dean decided he likes mini Haagen-Dazs coffee ice cream cups. I learned Dave drinks diet Coke and you’d be surprised how much fun a bunch of engineers can have with a case of Crackerjacks. The above are the food mentions on the blog so far. Note what repeats. Why isn't it Ben and Jerry's or some other ice cream company? So it can't just be ice cream, it has to be Haagen-Dazs. (I disregard the Diet Coke comment, because I was surprised he actually drinks it instead of adding Mentos...)

Now, the known members of the GDC:
Dean Kamen (founder), Woodie Flowers (national advisor), Dave Lavery (animator, team member), Bill Miller (FRC director), Aidan Browne (head ref), the KOP engineer, Paul Lazarus (White Dwarf Productions), and Calum Pearson (Cirque du Soleil). Some of these may have a connection...

As noted, H-D was founded in 1961, the last upside-down year. Upside down sounds like it's right up one of the GDC's alley...

Now, H-D in general: is there anything that stands out?

Let's see, it's kept colder than most ice cream, name isn't actually a word set, shrinking carton sizes this year, lots of chocolate.

Cold, and misleading name: It's not a hint at all, and a whole thread discusses it as a hint. Ouch. (Personally, I think this is the right answer. But, in case it isn't...)

Shrinking: the field (or maybe robot) size will shrink this year. Might also be game objects shrinking. (Note: if that's the case, I know what the game objects are...)

Cold, as contrasted with tacos and the usual hangout of Crackerjacks: melting? Are we getting a "green" themed game?

So, we have something shrinking, with a green theme, hanging upside-down. This is getting interesting.

[McGurky]

Ok, I agree that it could be a flipping game.

Like said before 1961 flipped is 1961...

in addition to this, when the H-D logo is flipped upside down it is the same (ignoring the words)

http://haagendazs.com/img/home_hdlogo.jpg

Hmmm, any other ideas?

[Karibou]

Cold, as contrasted with tacos and the usual hangout of Crackerjacks: melting? Are we getting a "green" themed game?


*thumbs-up*


Also, notice the "case" of Crackerjacks. Most people use the term 'box'...case implies large amounts of something to me. I think that massive amounts of game pieces are in order (more like the quantity of Lunacy game pieces as opposed to the four trackballs from Overdrive)

Shrinking...the opposite of shrinking is expanding...Crackerjacks are just popcorn covered in caramel (right? I don't eat them, so I don't really know). A package of popcorn 'expands' when you put it in the microwave...

I don't know exactly what these are called, but a quick google search of "expand shrink ball" got me this:
http://video.filestube.com/video,2d9737e19467514903e9.html
One of those toys we all used to play with as little kids (fine, my generation played with them...). Wal-mart, look out...

Orrrrrr, this is all just a huge school of red herrings. You never know. I can't wait until game hint season :)

[xnaut]

well... i like the idea its all food... and all have unique shapes... but i seriously think they got bored and were messin around with the snacks they were eating and wanted to skrew with us by puttin it up here

[smistthegreat]

2 thumbs up on the green theme. I also agree with the upside down element, and perhaps an cold/ice game. Although the regolith last year seams kinda icy to me. To me all this is still speculation though. IMO its either going to be something remarkably similar to what's being discussed here, or something completely different that no one saw coming. All this guess in fun though :).

[DonRotolo]

I don't know exactly what these are called
A Hoberman Sphere. The image you link to shows the largest one in the world.

Haagen-Dazs is definitely a clue, and the name is a key element.
Tacos might just refer to what they all ate one night while working.
A Case of cracker jack means several boxes. "Candy-covered popcorn, peanuts and a prize - that's what you get with Cracker Jack" according to their jingle.

And Dave may have just bumped his head, and Bill's having an inside chuckle over it.

Every year, I am amazed at the creativity and deviousness of the GDC, how masterfully well they do their job. I hope everyone realizes just how difficult an engineering problem it is, designing an FRC game. You have time, budget, size & weight constraints, it needs to be scored easily, be exciting for a crowd, tens of thousands of game pieces need to be available (worldwide!), and lots more. If you get a chance to meet anyone on the GDC, even though they have the best job in the world, be sure to thank them.

[Omar1510]

When I first read the blog entry my mind immediately ran to sustainability and recycling. I saw it as:
Coke ----> Aluminum Cans
Crackerjack boxes -----> Cardboard/paper
Haggen Daz ice cream ----> plastic containers
I am speculating that the ice cream containers are made of plastic or have a plastic coating. And I guess that is my homework to confirm this weekend.
And about the part from tacos that could mean food waste as in compost.

So what does it mean for game design?
It is definitely a sorting game on three levels or types of game pieces with three different storage containers for depositing the respective game pieces. There will also be a bonus "WASTE" category that needs to be stored in it's own location or on the robot.

How does it fit with the FIRST message?
FIRST is all about training future scientists and engineers to solve the world's problems and sustainability is one of those leading options.

As a side note I initially thought that instead of hagen daz ice cream they were referring to 7eleven or DariyQueen frosty cups that are definitely plastics.

Finally my 2 cents on rumors. Last years fish picture blatantly showed the relation between it and that years game on one level of uncertainty (i will explain) by saying that the game was to mimic conditions on the moon and the fish was referred to as "moon fish" or "lunar fish". By this I mean that we absolutely knew that it was a picture of a fish, and we needed one level of derivation to find the name of the fish and thus the answer to the hint (we didn't know that it was the answer but we knew the information). We didn't for example go find the name of the book or page number that the picture was taken from and used that information to learn about the game.
So for this year's hint it is my opinion to pay more attention to the direct information we learn from the hint.

[Karibou]

I like the way you broke down how those items are recyclable. It reminds me of when I go up to Mackinac Island every year for a Girl Scout service camp; we recycle and sort EVERYTHING.
We have two trash cans in every room except the dining hall. Compost trash cans are for food waste (such as leftovers from tacos), paper, and anything that can decompose. Landfill trash cans are for anything plastic or shiny, along with a few other things that obviously can't decompose.
Also, we have seperate boxes on the back porch for aluminum (such as diet coke cans), styrofoam, and 1 and 2 recyclable plastics. Cardboard (Crackerjack boxes...maybe) is thrown in a seperate "box" behind the area where we lock up our full trash bags, and it is recycled later.

(of course, the reason that WE sort everything is to minimize the landfill output of the island, but still...)

I believe that you are right in saying that the Haagen-Dazs cups are coated in some kind of plastic or wax. If we were to have Haagen-Dazs's on the island, this would cause them to be put into LANDFILL. They will not decompose as fast as the items in the compost bags will, and the cardboard cannot be re-used. Now, I haven't examined a box of Cracker Jacks lately, are the boxes just cardboard or do they have a plastic outside?

...possible outlier? Sort through what can be "recycled," and if you take anything that's not recyclable you get negative points?

[BrendanB]

Haagen-Dazs is definitely a big hint. But it is packaged the same as other ice-cream like Ben & Jerrys and in paper form, not plastic so WHAT Haagen-Dazs does different or support that other companies don't could be a clue.

Only thing I could dig up while searching their sit is that they love bees. And no, not team 33.:p

http://www.helpthehoneybees.com/

Darn, I told myself that I wouldn't think about the game hints this year! Oh well.:rolleyes:

[Chris is me]

Maybe it's just that most food is sold in recyclable containers and that there's really n relevance to the game from that perspective. I'm hard pressed to think of 3 consumables not in recyclable containers.

What if... the GDC just likes Haagen Daas?

[JaneYoung]

Has the resizing of the carton (http://www.haagen-dazs.com/company/cartons.aspx) (and the reasoning behind it) for Haagen Dazs been discussed yet?

[Zflash]

ice cream is to carton as robot is to crate.

From Bill's Blog
"Heads up, Section 4 of the competition manual (Robot Shipping) may change this year. FRC is working with a FedEX packing engineer to review our current crate criteria in an effort to improve efficiency in shipping."

Perhaps the crates will get smaller and perhaps the robots will get slightly smaller in size as well.

[BrendanB]

And as if the 5 foot rule wasn't hard to fit into.:rolleyes: Well, changing crate sizes and Haagen-Dazs cartons seem plausible.

[a kenny03]

(though I really would like to see a toaster used as a game piece - toast game? called it.),

On the subject of a Tetris game...the 8 hours a week I wast--err, spend playing tetris might come in handy :D

haha. me want buttered toast! yum!!!!:D
so, i guess i should keep playing my tetris, then.
and what about pokemon puzzle league? is better than tetris!:p

[Team1710]

Has the resizing of the carton (http://www.haagen-dazs.com/company/cartons.aspx) (and the reasoning behind it) for Haagen Dazs been discussed yet?

Yeah I have to agree. Especially since the resizing is occurring in January. Maybe the robot must fit in tight places in order to place something. So we have to have the same functionality of a full size robot all within smaller constraints like Haagen Dazs is just reducing the size instead of reducing the quality.

[Chris is me]

This would be completely consistent with the "10 matches for every team by using a 4v4 field and smaller robots" theory from another thread. Brilliance!

[alectronic]

Much of what i saw initially on the Haagen-Dazs website right away (and the one about helping the bees) was like the "go green" and recycling type stuff... and this is similar to one of the recurring themes of the FLL games too. maybe what they meant was simply a theme of sorts for the game, like moving different shapes to different places, similar to recycling.
just a thought

[a kenny03]

hmmm... making a smaller robot... well there have been years when our team has just made the footprint

[Andrew Schreiber]

And as if the 5 foot rule wasn't hard to fit into.:rolleyes: Well, changing crate sizes and Haagen-Dazs cartons seem plausible.

I for one wouldn't mind them saying we have a smaller base foot print if they give us the ability to expand. I wouldn't mind adding a bit of weight too. Similar to 2007 where a 4' robot weighed x a 5' weighed x-10 and a 6' weighed x-20 (I can't remember x but I think it was 120)

[EricH]

I for one wouldn't mind them saying we have a smaller base foot print if they give us the ability to expand. I wouldn't mind adding a bit of weight too. Similar to 2007 where a 4' robot weighed x a 5' weighed x-10 and a 6' weighed x-20 (I can't remember x but I think it was 120)
Correct, 120 sans battery and bumpers.

That was actually one of the most-liked size/weight patterns. The surprising thing was how many actually went for the higher height limit with less weight.

[a kenny03]

i never heard of that rule. but with a smaller robot and the recycling theme, i would guess they would have to give us expansion capibilities.

[Andrew Schreiber]

i never heard of that rule. but with a smaller robot and the recycling theme, i would guess they would have to give us expansion capibilities.

This was a rule a couple years back. But FIRST doesnt HAVE to give us anything, they could come out and say we have an 18" by 18" by 18" cube we have to fit in, cant expand outside it. Have fun.

[a kenny03]

they could... but FIRST isn't that maen...ok wait, changed my mind. (grrr stupid moon rocks!!!) but they have always been around the same footprint size, so why change it that radically? the going green strategy is a nice thing, but its not worth it to change it that much...

[Andrew Schreiber]

they could... but FIRST isn't that maen...ok wait, changed my mind. (grrr stupid moon rocks!!!) but they have always been around the same footprint size, so why change it that radically? the going green strategy is a nice thing, but its not worth it to change it that much...

Actually, FRC robots used to be much smaller. But I doubt that going green would be the only reason, face it, FRC robots are expensive to build partly because of their scale. They are hard to practice with because of the size of the field. They are hard to transport too. There are benefits to making them smaller. On the other hand, one of FRC's eventual goals is to be a spectator event, smaller robots are not conducive to this goal, they are not as impressive. FIRST would walk a fine line here between impressiveness and cost cutting.

You are correct though, FRC dimensions have been roughly the same size (meaning within a few inches in a given dimension) for the last couple years, what better reason to change things then? Cuz yes, FIRST is that mean. (I blame Dave)

[EricH]

they could... but FIRST isn't that maen...ok wait, changed my mind. (grrr stupid moon rocks!!!) but they have always been around the same footprint size, so why change it that radically? the going green strategy is a nice thing, but its not worth it to change it that much...
Actually, they haven't. In 1992, the robots were smaller than the 2009 control system.

Some other game-changing rule changes: Pre-1998, you could intentionally detach parts. Pre-1999, matches were 1v1v1. Pre-2002, metal on carpet was legal. Pre-2005, matches were 2v2 and robots were 30"x36"x60" (changed from 36"x36"x60"). Pre-2006, you could have wedges on your robot, and bumpers were counted in your size and weight--and you had to develop your own.

As far as the GDC being that mean, at least three of them have the pure evil genius rating, and the rest are simply pure evil. Never take anything for granted, including the ability to use metal on robots and the ability to use threaded fasteners. (One of the GDC actually made comments to this effect on CD. Neither has actually happened...yet.)

[Karibou]

Never take anything for granted, including the ability to use metal on robots and the ability to use threaded fasteners. (One of the GDC actually made comments to this effect on CD. Neither has actually happened...yet.)
Going green by saying that we have to build our robots out of wood? Man, that would screw a lot of people over and completely even the playing field :/

This was a rule a couple years back. But FIRST doesnt HAVE to give us anything, they could come out and say we have an 18" by 18" by 18" cube we have to fit in, cant expand outside it. Have fun.
That sounds extremely close to VEX/FTC to me (though I don't know much about that program, I could be way off) :/ maybe they would do it if they hadn't just given us a fancy new control system to use.

[Andrew Schreiber]

That sounds extremely close to VEX/FTC to me (though I don't know much about that program, I could be way off) :/ maybe they would do it if they hadn't just given us a fancy new control system to use.

It should sound like VEX/FTC that is where I got the dimensions. But you know in '92 the control system was off board, nothing says we can't have tethered robots.

[GaryVoshol]

Going green by saying that we have to build our robots out of wood? Who said anything about wood? The materials list will be papyrus and cornstarch. Have fun!

[Andrew Schreiber]

Who said anything about wood? The materials list will be papyrus and cornstarch. Have fun!

Can we use water?

[NorviewsVeteran]

Can we use water?
Only hard water.

[JaneYoung]

Only hard water.

With extra set aside for that plop plop fizz fizz moment that is hovering, near, and loaded.

[dlavery]

Going green by saying that we have to build our robots out of wood?


If... she... weighs... the same as a duck ... she's made of wood.

And therefore? ...






.

[GaryVoshol]

And therefore? ...






.We're burning heretic robots!

[Karibou]

If... she... weighs... the same as a duck ... she's made of wood.

And therefore? ...






.
Dave Lavery just responded to one of my posts. I think that I might die.

So our robots have to perform witchcraft? I can see it now: "Hello operator, I'd like to get a hold of a certain Albus Dumbledore. You see, I need him to 'program' our robot. What do you mean, I have to wait!? WHAT!? 1114 already has him? That explains a lot..."

[Mr. Pockets]

Going green by saying that we have to build our robots out of wood? Man, that would screw a lot of people over and completely even the playing field :/
I'd find it somewhat ironic if they chose to "go green" by replacing a recyclable resource with a renewable resource (shrugs).
That would be pretty neat though, though I'd think it would also lead to less robust robots (or maybe I'm just ignorant of the physical strengths of wood).

If... she... weighs... the same as a duck ... she's made of wood.

And therefore? ...






.
It...is capable of playing a water game?

[Andrew Schreiber]

I'd find it somewhat ironic if they chose to "go green" by replacing a recyclable resource with a renewable resource (shrugs).
That would be pretty neat though, though I'd think it would also lead to less robust robots (or maybe I'm just ignorant of the physical strengths of wood).


Wood is actually quite useful as a building material. If memory serves, check out RAGE sometime. Also, Spruce Goose. If you don't know what this is google it.

[Karibou]

Speaking of wood/fire...
We certainly don't want THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPCTEajtnIw) happening again (Nathan reminded me of it :P). And that was with a metal robot...

[JaneYoung]

Dave Lavery just responded to one of my posts. I think that I might die.


Don't even consider this. If you do, I'll be left with 2 left shoes and that will never do.

*sigh* heroes...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Only hard water.

Ok, Im confused and feel like I should make a joke about DUIs here.


With extra set aside for that plop plop fizz fizz moment that is hovering, near, and loaded.
Really confused

Don't even consider this. If you do, I'll be left with 2 left shoes and that will never do.

*sigh* heroes...

So... Freaking... Confused.

Wow, are we sure this isn't a game hint thread?

[JaneYoung]

Wow, are we sure this isn't a game hint thread?

No... not from anything I've posted anyway. The person who is known for confusing people (to the point of having bad gas I might add), is dlavery. You know, the guy who is waiting for an answer to his leading question. That guy.

I am just being funny tonight. Well, obnoxious mostly.

Kara and I are in a small competition that has to do with shoes and if she dies because dlavery responded to her post then I am left with 2 left shoes and that will never do.

See? No hints. Nothing up my sleeve. No gas build up, although if that duck thing doesn't get solved, there is potential for the plop plop fizz fizz moment for me.

*wanders off to find an antacid*

[Akash Rastogi]

We gotta make a battle bot obviously....Duh...

http://www.jaunted.com/files/16133/Barrel_Monster_2.jpg

[EricH]

Uhhh. No, guys. You're COMPLETELY on the wrong track here.

Dave just made a Monty Python reference. Not just any Monty Python reference, though, a reference to the Quest for the Holy Grail. I thereby draw two conclusions:


A game hint is a Holy Grail that we will search long and hard for.
Even when we get close (or not), we STILL won't get it!

[a kenny03]

sounds like fun:D

[Andrew Schreiber]

No... not from anything I've posted anyway. The person who is known for confusing people (to the point of having bad gas I might add), is dlavery. You know, the guy who is waiting for an answer to his leading question. That guy.

I am just being funny tonight. Well, obnoxious mostly.

Kara and I are in a small competition that has to do with shoes and if she dies because dlavery responded to her post then I am left with 2 left shoes and that will never do.

See? No hints. Nothing up my sleeve. No gas build up, although if that duck thing doesn't get solved, there is potential for the plop plop fizz fizz moment for me.

*wanders off to find an antacid*

For once Dave's comment made more sense. (Did people really not catch the Monty Python reference?)

We gotta make a battle bot obviously....Duh...

http://www.jaunted.com/files/16133/Barrel_Monster_2.jpg
I hope that isn't related to FRC, that guy STOLE those barrels and then destroyed them. While it is a cool piece of art it was also made illegally.

[Chris is me]

For once Dave's comment made more sense. (Did people really not catch the Monty Python reference?)


I hope that isn't related to FRC, that guy STOLE those barrels and then destroyed them. While it is a cool piece of art it was also made illegally.

It isn't (search Google Images for "Traffic Cone"), but regardless you can buy traffic barrels. (http://www.trafficcones.us/traffic-barrel.html)

[Andrew Schreiber]

It isn't (search Google Images for "Traffic Cone"), but regardless you can buy traffic barrels. (http://www.trafficcones.us/traffic-barrel.html)

I know, but I distinctly recall reading an article (http://www.raleigh3.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=2089&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=2724&hn=raleigh3&he=.com) about how he stole those barrels.

I guess what I was trying to say is that we shouldn't try to imitate this. While it does look AMAZING the first one was made using stolen property and breaking the law, for any reason short of it being grossly unjust (think, Rosa Parks) is WRONG and must be discouraged. I shouldn't post right after I wake up.

Also, I wish sites would get URLs that are actually legible. :mad:

[Karibou]

Only hard water.
...so ice, then?
ICE GAME 2010.
The polar ice caps are melting. Find a way to stop it.

I've never watched Monty Python, so whatever reference was made just flew over my head at the speed of light.

Jane - Hmm..super expensive doggie chew toys? You would find something to do with them ;)

[NorviewsVeteran]

Please remember where we are, in the middle of a happy place where Monty Python references do not go unnoticed, two left shoes just won't do, and hard water is apparently alcoholic ice?

And Kara, the reference probably went closer to the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.

[EricH]

I've never watched Monty Python, so whatever reference was made just flew over my head at the speed of light.Short version (for those that haven't watched):

King Arthur is recruiting for the Round Table, and stops by a village where a woman is accused of being a witch. The local officer for the job requests proof. ("She turned me into a newt!" "A newt?" "I got better." and "Well, we did do the nose." are some memorable lines here...) Anyway, he asks, "What do you do with witches?" to which the crowd answers, "Burn them!" "What else do you burn?" "Wood." This leads to a logical chain leading to the conclusion that the accused must be a witch if she weighs the same as a (rather large) duck. They use the largest scales in town for the job.

[Mr. Pockets]

And Kara, the reference probably went closer to the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.
African or European? Finally the references are for a movie that I've actually seen.

1. A game hint is a Holy Grail that we will search long and hard for.
2. Even when we get close (or not), we STILL won't get it!
He's probably also hiding the game rules in the castle of UUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH :D

[Karibou]

Short version (for those that haven't watched):

King Arthur is recruiting for the Round Table, and stops by a village where a woman is accused of being a witch. The local officer for the job requests proof. ("She turned me into a newt!" "A newt?" "I got better." and "Well, we did do the nose." are some memorable lines here...) Anyway, he asks, "What do you do with witches?" to which the crowd answers, "Burn them!" "What else do you burn?" "Wood." This leads to a logical chain leading to the conclusion that the accused must be a witch if she weighs the same as a (rather large) duck. They use the largest scales in town for the job.
That's what Google told me :P

Now, back to the game...

[EricH]

African or European? Finally the references are for a movie that I've actually seen.


He's probably also hiding the game rules in the castle of UUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH :D
No, the beast of AAAAAAAAARRGH doesn't have a castle. Though why he has a killer rabbit protecting the cave I don't know.

[Andrew Schreiber]

...so ice, then?
ICE GAME 2010.
The polar ice caps are melting. Find a way to stop it.

I've never watched Monty Python, so whatever reference was made just flew over my head at the speed of light.

Jane - Hmm..super expensive doggie chew toys? You would find something to do with them ;)

This

Please remember where we are, in the middle of a happy place where Monty Python references do not go unnoticed, two left shoes just won't do, and hard water is apparently alcoholic ice?

And Kara, the reference probably went closer to the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow.

Thread

African or European? Finally the references are for a movie that I've actually seen.


He's probably also hiding the game rules in the castle of UUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH :D

Is

No, the beast of AAAAAAAAARRGH doesn't have a castle. Though why he has a killer rabbit protecting the cave I don't know.

Crazy

No, really, y'all is crazy! (Yes, I used y'all just to spite Dave)

[Akash Rastogi]

Nobody's taking me seriously? :(

I swear we have to battle transformers too.

[mikeleslie]

So we need to do the math here. Kara, you're the design lead, figure it out . If we take the force in newts of an unladen African swallow + 1/2 the bouyancy of the floating wood - the weight of the witch (eating ice cream)
I think a cracker jack answer here would include the phrase "I got better"...btw, perhaps for the qualifying matches they should just ask teams to "bring out your dead".

[NorviewsVeteran]

So we need to do the math here. Kara, you're the design lead, figure it out . If we take the force in newts of an unladen African swallow + 1/2 the bouyancy of the floating wood - the weight of the witch (eating ice cream)
I think a cracker jack answer here would include the phrase "I got better"...btw, perhaps for the qualifying matches they should just ask teams to "bring out your dead".

Well, I'm impressed. The Gearheads can get blood from a turnip. Not to say Mr. Lavery is a turnip by any means.

[Mr. Pockets]

So we need to do the math here. Kara, you're the design lead, figure it out . If we take the force in newts of an unladen African swallow + 1/2 the bouyancy of the floating wood - the weight of the witch (eating ice cream)
I think a cracker jack answer here would include the phrase "I got better"...btw, perhaps for the qualifying matches they should just ask teams to "bring out your dead".
Pssst, Kara. I'm pretty sure the answer is blue...I mean yellow AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!

Anyway, I think that the game might require robots that resemble massive wooden bunnies with BIG SHARP TEETH to deliver shrubberies to the heart attack prone cartoonist. Holy hand grenades probably won't be permitted though (cause to many flesh wounds).

Oh and don't be silly Mr. Leslie. Everyone knows FRC teams at comps are "not dead yet".
^_^

Andrew: That's because Camelot is a silly place.

[nighterfighter]

I saw a post about hard water...

Isn't hard water radioactive, and just a few drops will kill you? :eek:

(Haha, the one day I paid attention in chemistry!)

[Mr. Pockets]

Hmm not according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water).
Are you sure that you aren't thinking of heavy water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water)?

[nighterfighter]

You are right, heavy water.

Well, I *kind* of paid attention, okay? :p

[scottmacdonald]

I'm sure you all remember these (https://www4959.ssldomain.com/toysoup/store/ProdImages/PLA-Shape&Sort-2.jpg)...
I could see a game that involves sorting items. It'd just be incredibly challenging, and rely a lot on the new camera and/or the drivers
$0.02

Crackerjacks - come in a plastic bag
Haagen-Dazs cups - are cardboard
Diet Coke Cans - made of aluminum

I agree with a "go green" theme and sorting items but that still doesn't explain...
If... she... weighs... the same as a duck ... she's made of wood.

And therefore? ...

which references the Monty Python Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU) from the holy grail

[BrendanB]

Man this thread went crazy.


So after a long day on the express register and seeing at lest 15+things of Haagen Daza ice cream and too much diet coke, i thought of a couple of ideas.

Like what was mentioned earlier about ice cream containers getting smaller, and possibly the crate sizes which means smaller robot dimensions. I then thought of this- What do most people do when they go on a diet. Change to diet soda, which in most cases in diet Coke.

So my thoughts are smaller crate size/robot size (Haagen Dazs containers getting smaller) and less robot weight (Diet Coke)

my ideas

[kevincrispie]

stacking things won't be that interesting. What should be done is manuvering around while trying to score.

I dunno. Stacking's gonna be hard, but it would definitely be interesting to see those robots.

[EricH]

stacking things won't be that interesting. What should be done is manuvering around while trying to score.

I dunno. Stacking's gonna be hard, but it would definitely be interesting to see those robots.
Stack Attack, 2003. It was generally acknowledged that the attacking part was easier than the stacking part, and the King-of-the-Hill at the end was a warzone.

It was an interesting game, but wasn't played like it should have been.

[Andrew Schreiber]

stacking things won't be that interesting. What should be done is manuvering around while trying to score.

I dunno. Stacking's gonna be hard, but it would definitely be interesting to see those robots.

Ever watch 2005?

[a kenny03]

sadly, i havent. care to explain?

[EricH]

Stack pyramids on bigger pyramids. Nobody really went for the 10-point home-zone bonus. Oh, yeah--you were also playing tic-tac-toe, trying to get as many rows as possible.

[Andrew Schreiber]

sadly, i havent. care to explain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Zwir1pwbw Might help, 2005 was actually a pretty exciting year. The game design was good but the pieces were... well I just wasn't a fan.

[Urban Hawk]

perhaps we have to find an hidden object because isn't there those prizes hidden in crackerjacks that they are so famous for?

[mtaman02]

Every year, I am amazed at the creativity and deviousness of the GDC, how masterfully well they do their job. I hope everyone realizes just how difficult an engineering problem it is, designing an FRC game. You have time, budget, size & weight constraints, it needs to be scored easily, be exciting for a crowd, tens of thousands of game pieces need to be available (worldwide!), and lots more. If you get a chance to meet anyone on the GDC, even though they have the best job in the world, be sure to thank them.

So for all who thought 6 weeks is not enough time to build and test robot, lets give it up to the GDC who have the similar rules and budget constraints to design, build and successfully launch an exciting game with a durable field year after year.

And even larger round of applause to the same GDC who do their very best year after year in keeping FIRST's secret. I know for a fact it's got to be trying and ultimately difficult to read all these threads and type in "YOUR ALL WRONG" :P and close the window out.

[dlavery]

And even larger round of applause to the same GDC who do their very best year after year in keeping FIRST's secret. I know for a fact it's got to be trying and ultimately difficult to read all these threads and type in "YOUR ALL WRONG" :P and close the window out.

YOU'RE ALL WR... Oh. Wait. Maybe not so much. Never mind....

:D

-dave




.-

[mtaman02]

YOU'RE ALL WR... Oh. Wait. Maybe not so much. Never mind....

:D

-dave




.-

see I know he's just having fun with us, cause he wouldn't do that so quickly =P...

[Karibou]

see I know he's just having fun with us, cause he wouldn't do that so quickly =P...
Yes, but this is Dave we're talking about. He's just messing with our heads again, and shouldn't always be trusted.
And even if he isn't messing with our heads and we are on the right track (no pun intended), we don't know which parts of our speculations are right :P

Side note: I was at a thrift store today, and on the racks of mens shirts, there was a Hawaiian shirt next to a shirt with a fish pattern. Oh, the irony.

[JaneYoung]

Well, we have known for a long time that Dave is just a kid in man-sized Hawaiian shirts when it comes to hints, puzzles, and fun.

[J93Wagner]

Anyone notice on dlavery's title bar he has, "donning my flak jacket"?

I wonder if he put that because he knows he will be receiving flak for even posting on CD? Or if it is because he knows his posts are going to be ripped apart by eager FIRSTer's who can't wait for Kickoff?

[EricH]

Anyone notice on dlavery's title bar he has, "donning my flak jacket"?

I wonder if he put that because he knows he will be receiving flak for even posting on CD? Or if it is because he knows his posts are going to be ripped apart by eager FIRSTer's who can't wait for Kickoff?
He's had that for at least a year. I wouldn't put too much stock in that.

Oh, and you missed the obvious interpretation--flying game in a warzone.

[Burmeister #279]

Saw this and had to post it. it must be a game hint!!

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/funny-dog-pictures-haagen-dawg.jpg

okay dashund[sp] is the new red herring =)

[Alan Anderson]

YOU'RE ALL WR... Oh. Wait. Maybe not so much. Never mind....

:D

-dave




.-

What? A hat? I hope I'm not getting confused by a single missing element.




.--

[Danny Blau]

talking about putting the robots on a diet and cutting size:
with smaller robots there is more room on the field,
this could be filled with a large field element or more robots

could there be a 2v2v2v2 or 3v3v3 game this year?

Danny B

[BrendanB]

talking about putting the robots on a diet and cutting size:
with smaller robots there is more room on the field,
this could be filled with a large field element or more robots

could there be a 2v2v2v2 or 3v3v3 game this year?

Danny B

One of the things that they have mentioned is giving teams more matches at events. 2v2 would decrease matches unless they had two fields. 4v4 is one idea that I had if they are making robots smaller then they would have more room on the field. They might even expand the field a little bit to accommodate for two more robots on the field.

39 days left...:(

[Beta Version]

I'm not sure that those specific items are important per-se as themselves. However, relationships between them might be. For instance, they are all made of recyclable materials.

[lady lighting]

thats what i said a long time ago and im still sticking to my plan and that would be really cool if it was because when we were aloud to say what we wanted next years game to be on chief delphi i said it should be going Green

[MikeReilly]

It's right in front of us!! Cracker Jacks, HaggenDaz, Diet Cokes, then the "Bill in the hospital" posting. It's an ambulance game! Yup, eat too much crap, and you need to transport folks. It's a nice tie-in to the health care debate too.

Yup, ambulance transport game.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/bear.jpg

[Zach Herbst]

Crackerjack containers used to have a prize in the bottom of them that you had to eat all the way through them to get to
Diet Coke's slogan used to be "The One of a Kind"
Haagen-Dazs ice cream is in a bucket

I'm thinking we have to dig through a bucket full of nonessential game elements (or at least low scoring game elements) to get to the bottom where there's a high scoring game element ("one of a kind in the bucket) that you have to take somewhere.

I can imagine a couple giant buckets sitting in the middle of the field with robots rushing to them trying to pick up loads of "crackerjacks" to carry back to a goal and try to get to a bigger one in the bottom of the giant bucket.

It's just a guess :P

[hipsterjr]

So, at the mentor's breakfast on Saturday, I had a very interesting conversation with Dave about the true meaning behind "Crackerjacks, Haagen-Dazs cups and Diet Coke cans." His answer was very insightful and quite amusing. I will not spoil his fun with this one, but I will say that his explaination involved a big bowl and a cart full of of Diet Coke.;) Don't be surprised if this "2010" hint plays a role in the GDC's plans for 2011.

Don't worry Dave, your secret is safe with me.

[Robert Cawthon]

So, at the mentor's breakfast on Saturday, I had a very interesting conversation with Dave about the true meaning behind "Crackerjacks, Haagen-Dazs cups and Diet Coke cans." His answer was very insightful and quite amusing. I will not spoil his fun with this one, but I will say that his explaination involved a big bowl and a cart full of of Diet Coke.;) Don't be surprised if this "2010" hint plays a role in the GDC's plans for 2011.

Don't worry Dave, your secret is safe with me.

Let's see... A large bowl of Diet Coke and we have to throw Menthos at it? :confused:

[dcherba]

dont those shapes look like the FIRST logo??

[hipsterjr]

dont those shapes look like the FIRST logo??

It is a litte more abstract than just the shapes. That would be too obvious lol;)

[Basel A]

A large bowl of Diet Coke

Water Game!.. Err.. Coke game. How do we deal with the acidity?

[BrendanB]

I think it is only fair that Dave Lavery tell us the meaning behind the hints. Hints are only good for a while, but eventually it is only fair to give us the answer. Then the hint isn't a hint if we don't know the punch line! :)

[EricH]

I should probably start a new thread for this, but Bill's at it already. This time, it's little sandwiches and mini crab cakes that are the big hit. (See http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2010/04/were-back-but-only-just.html, 2nd paragraph from the end.)

Dave, you really need to step it up!

[littlenarniaa]

or it could just be like the logo of first. :)

[Zach O]

Water Game!.. Err.. Coke game. How do we deal with the acidity?

You tell me! We have 6 weeks to solve that problem. :P

[Andrew Lawrence]

I think the game will be called "LogoMotion", and will involve hanging inflatable tubes in the shape of the 3 parts of the FIRST logo. I suggest everyone make an arm with a gripper, while our team will definatly not have an elevator and a roller claw.