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RoboMom

12-10-2009, 15:08

A continuation of this post:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=875096&postcount=3

Some good stuff coming up with the Congressional Robotics Caucus.
http://www.roboticscaucus.org/

Congrats to all the FRC/FTC/FLL/Botball and Vex teams participating!

Is anyone keeping track of all the FIRST teams who have presented to members of Congress? I know there have been at least 2 in the past couple of months.

RoboMom

12-10-2009, 17:22

Is anyone keeping track of all the FIRST teams who have presented to members of Congress? I know there have been at least 2 in the past couple of months.

Can we just start a list here?

2007
FRC 365
FRC 116
FRC 768
FVC 116? (not sure of #)
FVC 3053
FLL 1911
FLL 1677

2009
1727
1864

ebarker

12-10-2009, 21:59

Can we just start a list here?

2007
FRC 365
FRC 116
FRC 768
FVC 116? (not sure of #)
FVC 3053
FLL 1911
FLL 1677

2009
1727
1864

2007
FRC 365
FRC 116
FRC 768
FVC 116? (not sure of #)
FVC 3053
FLL 1911
FLL 1677

2009
1727
1864
1311

.

dlavery

12-10-2009, 22:48

2007
FRC 365
FRC 116
FRC 768
FVC 116? (not sure of #)
FVC 3053
FLL 1911
FLL 1677

2009
1727
1864
1311

.

There are several other visits to add to the list. I will have to go back in my notes to look up the complete list of participating teams and events. But the ones that I remember off the top of my head include:

1998 - Havoc On The Hill
Team 116
Team 120
At least six other teams - I need to check and remember which ones they were as we staged a full Ladder Logic competition in the main foyer of the Cannon Office Building.

2001 (or 2000? I know John Larock will remember - we were both laughing so hard at this event that we could not breathe) - University Researchers Assault On Congress
Team 116
Team 365
(this was possibly the most awesome FIRST-related event on Capitol Hill ever held. ALL of the ones since then pale in comparison. Not because of anything the teams did, but because of the speech that Dean gave to 300 university presidents and Congressional liaison officers. You had to be there to understand. Dr. Charles Vest, then-president of M.I.T., still refuses to speak to Dean because of that speech.)

2008 - Congressional Technology Caucus (I think that was it - Dave Flowerday may remember the correct event title
Team 111
Team 116

There was at least one other event as well. I think it was in 2004, but I have to refresh my memory on the details of who was there and to which group they presented. I will edit/update when I find the info.

-dave

.

Meredith Novak

12-10-2009, 23:31

1998 - Havoc On The Hill
Team 116
Team 120
At least six other teams - I need to check and remember which ones they were as we staged a full Ladder Logic competition in the main foyer of the Cannon Office Building.

Team 16 was there!

_

Carol

13-10-2009, 15:13

Last month MOE 365 gave a presentation to Senator Ted Kauffman (Biden's replacement in the Senate) at our lab in Delaware.

Mr MOE

13-10-2009, 15:39

There are several other visits to add to the list. I will have to go back in my notes to look up the complete list of participating teams and events. But the ones that I remember off the top of my head include:

2001 (or 2000? I know John Larock will remember - we were both laughing so hard at this event that we could not breathe) - University Researchers Assault On Congress
Team 116
Team 365
(this was possibly the most awesome FIRST-related event on Capitol Hill ever held. ALL of the ones since then pale in comparison. Not because of anything the teams did, but because of the speech that Dean gave to 300 university presidents and Congressional liaison officers. You had to be there to understand. Dr. Charles Vest, then-president of M.I.T., still refuses to speak to Dean because of that speech.)
.

Dave:

This event was in 2001. MOE was excited to be going because it was our second year in FIRST, we had been fortunate to have been part of the National Championship alliance in Disney that year, and Dean had not yet unveiled the Segway (it was called "IT" at that time). The event was a dose of reality in the midst of what FIRST meant to us at that time. Dean's speech did leave us speechless. It was one of those "Wow - how do we react to that?" moments and utterly memorable.

-J-

ebarker

13-10-2009, 16:31

My OTHER CAR is still on Mars!!!

Totally !!!! off subject but last night I sat through a briefing from an engineer that spent a lot of time at McMurdo Station, Antarctica. Apparently NASA spends time there because it is the closest thing we have to some planetary regions.

So did you go to region and drive your other car around down there ?

.

JaneYoung

13-10-2009, 16:48

Dean's speech did leave us speechless. It was one of those "Wow - how do we react to that?" moments and utterly memorable.

Could you guys give us the gist of the speech or tell us where we could look for it? Sounds like it made an impact.

Jon236

13-10-2009, 17:09

In 2006, the TechnoTicks (236) visited all 435 members of the House of Representatives as well as both Senators from Connecticut.

dlavery

13-10-2009, 17:34

Could you guys give us the gist of the speech or tell us where we could look for it? Sounds like it made an impact.

It actually was one of the very few of Dean's speeches that had almost nothing to do with FIRST. To begin, it is important to understand the context. Each year, about 300 of the largest research universities in the country send their university presidents to Congress. They come, accompanied by their Congressional Liaison Officers, to lobby Congress to allocate more Federal funds for university research programs. On the day of their visit to The Hill, they gather for a breakfast forum to hear a few speakers, get a pep talk or two, and organize their efforts to scatter and visit every Senator and Representative. In one day, they visit every Congressional office and ask, beg, plead, and cajole for more basic research funds to be allocated in the Federal budget, and specifically for more funds to be earmarked and be sent their particular institutions. It is pork barrel lobbying at its very finest.

In 2001, Dr Charles Vest was the president of MIT and was in charge of organizing this particular event. He asked Dean to come and be the guest speaker at the breakfast forum (I guess, assuming that he would talk about cool technology stuff and things going on at DEKA and how basic research was a good thing, etc etc etc). Dean accepted, but the speech he gave was not one that anyone there was expecting.

I will never forget Dean's opening lines: "I want you to know that I am here under protest. I believe that everything you are doing here is repugnant and ethically wrong. And now I am going to tell you why..." And for the next 35 minutes, that is exactly what he did.

The message was loud and clear: why in the world are you crawling to Washington to kiss the behind of some twit politician that never got better than a "C" in high school science? Just to beg for financial table scraps from the government? Why don't you think about the organizations that benefit the very most from the research you do - the corporations, the ones that make products (and therefore money) from your research output? Why don't you ask THEM to fund basic research? They are the greatest benefactors, should they not be the greatest contributors? You are attacking an easy source just because it is easy, rather than because it is appropriate. Shame on you.

The amount of defensiveness, self-righteous indignation, and puffery in the room was palpable. The entire room of university presidents (and the one Senator that had just received a special "advocate for science" award from the group and, just before Dean spoke, announced how proud he was to receive a "science award" - particularly since he never received better than a "C" in high school science) sat there spluttering over their eggs and cold toast. They had no idea how to respond. It was awesome.

Dean wrapped up his diatribe by then saying "oh yeah, and we have some of our FIRST teams here to show you their robots and talk to you about how real companies and organizations show their support. You need to talk to them."

As John said, it was one of those "Wow - how do we react to that?" moments.

-dave

.

mrmummert

13-10-2009, 18:10

Hello...

I would have loved to have been in that room with Dave when Dean talked.

I wanted to mention that Speaker of the House , Nancy Pelosi recently
made a trip to BAE's shipyard in San Francisco. (Sept.) While there besides showing and explaining to Mrs. Pelosi things BAE was working on , they also explained BAE's involvement with the FIRST Program. Our shipyard division
president was there , who knows the Program well (He was at Nasa-VCU this past season) and knows what the program is about. I'm sure He made sure
Mrs. Pelosi knows what the program is all about.

JaneYoung

13-10-2009, 20:42

The amount of defensiveness, self-righteous indignation, and puffery in the room was palpable.

Thank you for posting this, Dave. I will read and reread this a hundred times or more, I'm sure.

This quote is where I burst out laughing and then had to regain self-control so that I could finish reading your amazing post.

Jane

Mr. Pockets

13-10-2009, 21:25

The message was loud and clear: why in the world are you crawling to Washington to kiss the behind of some twit politician that never got better than a "C" in high school science?

Dave: You have given me yet another reason to be confident that I will die laughing. Gosh I wish I could have been there for that speech. Sounds pretty priceless to me.

Rich Kressly

14-10-2009, 13:16

Reps from Lower Merion HS Robotics (FRC/VRC 1712) we be attending tomorrow's Caucus gathering. We will share info on our experience upon our return (been scrambling around getting ready too much to add more now). Looking forward to a memorable experience (darn, I wish I'd have seen that previous Dean speech to the Univ. Presidents).

Ian Curtis

15-10-2009, 01:42

The message was loud and clear: why in the world are you crawling to Washington to kiss the behind of some twit politician that never got better than a "C" in high school science? Just to beg for financial table scraps from the government? Why don't you think about the organizations that benefit the very most from the research you do - the corporations, the ones that make products (and therefore money) from your research output? Why don't you ask THEM to fund basic research? They are the greatest benefactors, should they not be the greatest contributors? You are attacking an easy source just because it is easy, rather than because it is appropriate. Shame on you.

So what changed Dean's mind? This makes his opinion on politicians (and we all know the official FIRST position on lawyers :rolleyes:) pretty clear. Why have we spent the past several seasons inviting our representation (Senators, Representatives, Governors, etc) to our events?

I'm well aware that FIRST does a fantastic job of recruiting corporations to our cause. I'm just interested as to why FIRST went after the government, especially given these sentiments.

why in the world are you is FIRST crawling to Washington to kiss the behind of some twit politician that never got better than a "C" in high school science? Just to beg for financial table scraps from the government? Why don't you think about the organizations that benefit the very most from the research you do students we inspire - the corporations, the ones that make products employ (and therefore make money) from your research output inspired students?

Travis Hoffman

15-10-2009, 01:46

I find it amusing that the black dot on the map indicating Caucus member Congressman Tim Ryan's location is nowhere near his congressional district. :)

Have fun, Rich. Bring home some bacon. ;)

EricH

15-10-2009, 01:51

I'm well aware that FIRST does a fantastic job of recruiting corporations to our cause. I'm just interested as to why FIRST went after the government, especially given these sentiments.
I think it's a case of apples and oranges. Allow me to explain:

When the universities went to Capitol Hill, they wanted money for perspiration--the work to develop X, Y, and Z. When FIRST goes to the same place, we want money to help us with inspiration--the genius behind tomorrow's X, Y, and Z.

Or, to put it another way, the universities went to ask for money to develop a product (and presumably buy it in some way). FIRST is bringing a product that we'd like the government to buy.

I think this is a good question to ask, and I'm well aware that my answer probably isn't the correct one.

ebarker

15-10-2009, 06:25

IHMO,

On a great many matters it isn't the Federal responsibility to fill every pothole, correct every matter and inconvenience of the populace.

Federal participation in local education generally amounts to a few percentage points of total local education budget. Having said that the Fed's exercise a lot of leverage and guidance in how local policy is created and executed. That do that through legal means plus throwing around a little money.

I think the most we should want or ask for is some 'steerage' - some seed funding to do 2 things. a) focus schools on STEM, b) incentivise the process. Outside of that as far as I'm concerned "what happens in Washington needs to stay in Washington". Their participation in local education has already exceeded constitutional limits.

Succinctly put - leadership is the ability of someone to focus a group on a task so they will continue to move forward and make progress. Washington's role is to do that, by 'bully pulpit', policy, and seed money. And no more.

But I digress - leadership ? Washington ? - I thought this was the daily funnies......

Deans comments that Dave mentioned are totally hilarious... and well deserved by the universities.... I don't think there is any inconsistency here.

..

Lil' Lavery

15-10-2009, 10:04

2008 - Congressional Technology Caucus (I think that was it - Dave Flowerday may remember the correct event title
Team 111
Team 116

That was 2006, and it was as part of Motorola's display at the Tapping America's Potential 2015 (http://www.tap2015.org/) event.

Rich Kressly

16-10-2009, 12:52

As promised...quick report from yesterday's caucus gathering:

From the Caucus briefing brochure found at roboticscaucus.org - here's a list of Exhibitors & Guests:

Banneker Senior HS, DC - FTC Team 2989
Bryn Mawr College, PA
Carnegie Mellon University, PA (This was actually Robin Shoop and the CMU Robotics Academy)
Forsyth Alliance Robotics, GA -(Rick Folea's group repsenting gobs of teams in many programs)
Foshay Learning Center / NGY STEM, CA - (FRC team)
Herndon High School, VA - FRC & FTC Team 116 / 519
Jefferson Middle School, DC - FLL Team 8180 KIPR - KISS Institute for Practical Robotics, OK (BotBall)
Lower Merion HS, PA (FRC/VRC 1712 - my gang)
McKinley Technology HS, DC - FRC Team 1915 Montgomery County Public Schools, MD
Sidwell Friends School, DC
Worcester Polytechnic Institute, MA (Ken Stafford and other WPI Staff)

From our team perspective, here's a copy of our school district press release (sorry for not having time to edit again):
"On Thursday, October 15 LMHS Robotics Team Captains traveled to Capitol Hill as exhibitors at a Congressional Robotics Caucus briefing. Inventor and FIRST Robotics Founder Dean Kamen was the day’s keynote speaker and attendees included several congressional representatives and staffers, industry leaders, and other robotics program exhibitors from K-12 programs, university programs, and non-profit organizations. Dawgma represented one of eight exemplary school-based robotics programs from around the nation on site to help Congress and Industry understand how important robotics education and competition can be to our national STEM initiative that is aimed at meeting the overwhelming present and future demand for scientists, engineers, and leaders. With 92% of Dawgma alumni currently pursuing a STEM-related career, team members had a chance to show attendees how LM Robotics has a positive impact upon students in both curricular and co-curricular settings from K-12 across the district. The day’s highlights for Dawgma included a visit from Representative Jim Gerlach, discussing the program with attendees from the iRobot Corporation & the National Science Foundation, and trading best practices with school and university exhibitors."

I'll make some pics available soon, but we took with us a banner outlining our robot, people, outreach, and curriculum impact histories. Along with Photos of FRC/FTC/VRC Robots we had several robotic senior projects on display - mostly VEX-oriented, our Elevation VRC Robot, curriculum materials. We also distributed a handout of robotics education resources highlighting many programs and platforms - free resources as well as those available for purchase.

In all a productive day.

Mr MOE

18-10-2009, 16:59

Rich:

Thanks for the details.

Congrats to Dawgma and other robotics teams (FIRST and non-FIRST) participating in this event. I hope it was successful in continuing to get the word out that these programs are important to current and future STEM education initiatives.

Great job all!

-J-

Mr. Pockets

18-10-2009, 21:38

So what changed Dean's mind? This makes his opinion on politicians (and we all know the official FIRST position on lawyers ) pretty clear. Why have we spent the past several seasons inviting our representation (Senators, Representatives, Governors, etc) to our events?

I'm well aware that FIRST does a fantastic job of recruiting corporations to our cause. I'm just interested as to why FIRST went after the government, especially given these sentiments.

Dean didn't change his mind. There is a slight difference between his opinion of the universities going to the government and his homework regarding getting more politicians aware of FIRST (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.)

My understanding is that Dean wanted us to show politicians what we're doing, and show them the importance of Science and Technology. This is a tad different from the idea of going to the government to "beg for financial table scraps".

So in other words the goals are different (one being finance oriented, the other social).

But I digress - leadership ? Washington ? - I thought this was the daily funnies......
Maybe we should try to get a FIRSTer as president :D . But of course, that'd be lunacy (business as usual ;) )

Ian Curtis

18-10-2009, 21:59

Dean didn't change his mind. There is a slight difference between his opinion of the universities going to the government and his homework regarding getting more politicians aware of FIRST (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.)

My understanding is that Dean wanted us to show politicians what we're doing, and show them the importance of Science and Technology. This is a tad different from the idea of going to the government to "beg for financial table scraps".

So in other words the goals are different (one being finance oriented, the other social).

Maybe we should try to get a FIRSTer as president :D . But of course, that'd be lunacy (business as usual ;) )

I suppose. But if the goal is to get a FIRST team in every high school, I have a hard time believing there would be a federal mandate without federal money. (Or maybe I don't :rolleyes:)

No doubt, in 50 years, FIRST will be sitting pretty financially, as all the FIRST alumni will be sitting on the boards of FIRST's benefactors. Now that's a future we can look forward to. :)

Mr. Pockets

18-10-2009, 22:21

I suppose. But if the goal is to get a FIRST team in every high school, I have a hard time believing there would be a federal mandate without federal money. (Or maybe I don't )
Especially once all the pork is tied on :rolleyes:.

Still if you want to get help from the government you sort of have to play by there rules (and seeing as they write the rules it often pays to have their help ;) ). There is also technically a distinction between begging the government to slip funding to an organization/institution, and asking the government to make supporting an organization more financially appealing.

rfolea

19-10-2009, 10:09

I suppose. But if the goal is to get a FIRST team in every high school, I have a hard time believing there would be a federal mandate without federal money. (Or maybe I don't :rolleyes:)

Actually, the best quote of the day from Dean was "You do NOT have to put a FIRST team in EVERY high school - only the ones you care about"

Rich Kressly

19-10-2009, 10:23

Actually, the best quote of the day from Dean was "You do NOT have to put a FIRST team in EVERY high school - only the ones you care about"
And if you would carefully dissect what the Caucus is pushing, it's robotics education "in general" as it may be the most powerful way to meet our society's STEM needs. Dean's agenda is "a FIRST team in every school" which fits nicely as a subset. IF funding were to ever become available, I believe it would be for the more generalized need - but there's still work to be done to get there. IF federal funding for robotics education would ever exist, I would think/hope that FIRST teams would be some of the best on the planet at figuring out how to access such funds. Of course, for now, that's all conjecture. Lots of work to be done to get there, but the work of the Caucus is certainly rolling the ball in a positive direction.

Alexa Stott

19-10-2009, 10:43

The message was loud and clear: why in the world are you crawling to Washington to kiss the behind of some twit politician that never got better than a "C" in high school science? Just to beg for financial table scraps from the government? Why don't you think about the organizations that benefit the very most from the research you do - the corporations, the ones that make products (and therefore money) from your research output? Why don't you ask THEM to fund basic research? They are the greatest benefactors, should they not be the greatest contributors? You are attacking an easy source just because it is easy, rather than because it is appropriate. Shame on you.

Now there's a generalization if I've ever seen one.

My own representative, Congressman Rush Holt (D-NJ), holds a PhD. in physics from NYU. He also taught for some time at Swarthmore, and was the Assistant Director of the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory. I'm willing to bet he earned much more than a C in his high school science classes. As such, he pushes strongly for more science and technology in schools, and received an award from ASME for his efforts.

Perhaps a bit of research on Dean's part would have served well in this case.

EricH

19-10-2009, 10:59

Rich Kressly

19-10-2009, 11:02

Well Dean did say in the presence of legislators on Thursday, "...and I'll continue to try very hard to never understand this place..." However, he did it in a context that most folks in the room, including legislators and staffers, understood.

Mr. Pockets

19-10-2009, 11:46

Alan Anderson

19-10-2009, 12:08

Now there's a generalization if I've ever seen one.

It wasn't a generalization. It was the opposite of a generalization. The comment about the science grades was a direct reference to one specific politician who had made a point of mentioning it in earlier remarks to the assembled group.

The context of Dean Kamen's 2001 speech is important. You can't appreciate it properly unless you understand who was present and what had been said previously. You probably can't appreciate it completely unless you were there yourself to get the full effect.

Andrew Schreiber

19-10-2009, 12:59

Now there's a generalization if I've ever seen one.

My own representative, Congressman Rush Holt (D-NJ), holds a PhD. in physics from NYU. He also taught for some time at Swarthmore, and was the Assistant Director of the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory. I'm willing to bet he earned much more than a C in his high school science classes. As such, he pushes strongly for more science and technology in schools, and received an award from ASME for his efforts.

Perhaps a bit of research on Dean's part would have served well in this case.

While I do not doubt that there are some brilliant politicians there are also some incredibly dumb ones. Dean was, in my opinion, merely making a statement about the one senator in the room.

I overheard a discussion a while back about a company planning on financing a couple studies to award them some prize that they could use to sell themselves. This is what these men and women were doing, they made some prize up to BUY the loyalty of a senator. Dean's generalization may have been uncalled for but he is correct, what the university presidents were doing WAS morally and ethically wrong.

why in the world are you crawling to Washington to kiss the behind of some twit politician that never got better than a "C" in high school science? Just to beg for financial table scraps from the government?

Reread the above, he isn't saying ALL politicians are morons, just saying that this guy never got above a C in science (a fact the politician admitted) I only ask you to reread it because I misread it the first couple times as a generalization instead of merely restating a fact.

Now, as for why FIRST is different, realistically, we aren't. Graduates are a product, the industry that profits from them needs to foot the bill for producing high quality graduates. What industry profits the most from graduates? The government profits in the form of income tax. Therefore it is in their best interest to produce skilled graduates. The only difference is in who profits.

Thank you Dave for posting this.

Rich Kressly

25-11-2009, 09:51

As a follow up from the Caucus briefing, a short piece Lower Merion Robotics was published in Congressman Gerlach's eNewsletter today: http://gerlach.houseenews.net/mail/util.cfm?gpiv=2100050744.157861.1&gen=1