No more Autodesk Visualization Award?

[Kevin Thorp]

Posted by a teacher in the general forum:

"Autodesk will retire both the Visualization Award and the Inventor Award in order to introduce the Excellence in Design Award (with expanded software options)."

Can anyone confirm this? I wonder what it means? Will there be one contest and teams can use whatever Autodesk product they want (Inventor, 3ds Max, Maya) to create their entries?

I hope we find out some details before the Kickoff.

[Chris is me]

It's on Bill's Blog (http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009/11/something-to-think-about-while-im-off.html). No idea what it means for animation.

[Koko Ed]

I know it's complete blasphemy to my fellow animators but I truly hopes this brings legitimacy to the use of the program.
I always felt the animation competition was completely separate from what the team was doing and thus was hardly relevant to FIRST. Hopefully they will do something that actually ties into what goes on with the design process and presentation about what the team is actually doing. I truly hope that's what FIRST has in mind.

[J93Wagner]

"...Excellence in Design Award (with expanded software options)."


I believe that this means using AutoCAD and related 3d Modeling software to show how effective the software can be...

I really can't guess more than that, but I starting to get excited for the new portions of the 2010 game manual that will come out. :D

DISCLAIMER: This is only an opinion, please don't go spouting anything I say off as a sort of fact.

[Rob Colatutto]

I am guessing they mean to allow submissions of CAD models from Pro/Engineer and Solidworks to be eligible for the new award.

[/edit] see this post http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78929 [/edit]

[MasterRobot]

I'm not sure about Solidworks or ProEngineer because it seems that Autodesk is pulling out all the stops in allowing most of their engineering software to be available for FIRST. I believe that because we're now allowed so much more Autodesk software, we may be limited to what is on FirstBase

As for visualization, it seems quite sad, but it seems that there will still be something for animations (not necessarily the people who do CAD) to do. Why would Autodesk give Maya and 3ds Max when they wont be useful? I guess they are only 6 month licences...but to use the software only for Safety Animation would be a waste. Hopefully Autodesk has another animation contest (besides CAD) that can let animations continue to produce animations.

[Kevin Thorp]

Maybe Autodesk will post a design challenge and allow teams to use whatever Autodesk software they want (3ds Max, Maya, Inventor, Autocad, Revit, etc.) to create their entry. I assume all these programs will be available free to FRC teams.

If you have a strong animation team you'll use Max or Maya. If you have a strong CAD group you'll use Inventor or Autocad. Or (and I'll bet this is what Autodesk is hoping for) the sub teams will work together on a project, the way professional engineering & marketing groups work together.

It might be a good idea to learn a little more about how CAD & visualization software can work together. Or more importantly, how the CAD & visualization sub-teams can work together.

But I'm just guessing here. Autodesk will be posting more "hints" as we get closer to the Kickoff.

[Lil' Lavery]

This isn't the first time this has happened... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50085)

[Dancin103]

Well this is interesting. I would love to see the details and hear the reasoning behind this one. It sounds as though they are trying to emphasize more on the "Inventor" portion of the old Autodesk awards and do away with the actual animation of it all, or maybe they will make it geared towards still 3D modeling and animation of your robot. If any of what I just said makes sense.

Cass

[Andrew Schreiber]

Or maybe we should wait for details before flying off the handle? Yes BB said there would be a restructuring but that was all. Wait until the Awards section comes out and THEN make a call for the reasoning.

[JaneYoung]

This isn't the first time this has happened... (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50085)

Well, at least the wording is a little different this time around. To retire an award shows a respect for the historic aspects of it with regard to previous competitions. That's always nice.

[ChrisH]

Autodesk will retire both the Visualization Award and the Inventor Award in order to introduce the Excellence in Design Award (with expanded software options).

It sounds to me like they are putting more emphasis on CAE (Computer Aided Engioneering) than what we have seen as classical animation. It is very possible to animate your robot designs using Inventor. I used the capability a couple of times to show robot concepts.

It sounds like this new competition is focused more on designing the robot you want and figuring out how to make it work before you start building.

[BuddyB309]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!! THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING!!!!!

If it weren't for the Autodesk Visualization award I would have never found my passion. :mad:

This is just....ugh!......ANGER!!!

[Rich Kressly]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!! THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING!!!!!

If it weren't for the Autodesk Visualization award I would have never found my passion. :mad:

This is just....ugh!......ANGER!!!

Easy Chicken Little, the sky may not be falling. :-). It looks like teams will still be able to use an array of Autodesk software, including 3DSMax. How these teams use it, and what they use it for, is certainly likely to change some here, but I'm sure we'll still be able to help students "find their passions" - we're a resourceful bunch, aren't we? Let's stay tuned and see where this goes.

[Dancin103]

Easy Chicken Little, the sky may not be falling. :-). It looks like teams will still be able to use an array of Autodesk software, including 3DSMax. How these teams use it, and what they use it for, is certainly likely to change some here, but I'm sure we'll still be able to help students "find their passions" - we're a resourceful bunch, aren't we? Let's stay tuned and see where this goes.

Agreed. I think we all just need to wait and see what's going on.

Cass

[Andrew Schreiber]

If it weren't for the Autodesk Visualization award I would have never found my passion. :mad:

Ignoring the big red text because it just irritates me to have someone make a post using text THAT irritating despite the fact that we currently know next to nothing. If you credit Autodesk Visualization for helping you find your passion why do you need to have a major company tell you what you can and cannot do. If Autodesk removes the award no one says you have to stop doing animations. Heck, talk to your regional coordinator, it may not be an official award but I am sure that they would be willing to show animations when possible. Go back to team voting on the submissions. No one is stopping you from doing it it just makes a little more work (ok a lot) to give an award.



And also, chill out until we know something more. As a former animator myself I am mildly bothered by this but I have a feeling that it will all work out.

[Lil' Lavery]

I disagree with the whole "let's wait and see" mentality. Let's make it known, now, in a polite and professional fashion that the AVA was an important part of FIRST for many people. Maybe it's still around in some form, who knows? But if we let FIRST know it's value NOW, it will help encourage FIRST and Autodesk to continue to keep the award around in their plans and hopefully help it be a part of the upcoming Awards section of the manual.
If it still exists, they may roll their eyes at us and continue. If it doesn't, they'll take notice with time still left to change it.


I was a member of a team where the animation took a very prominant role. It was one of the largest, if not the largest, group of students working on an individual sub-team/project year after year. It was a source of team pride, a powerful promotional tool, and an additional avenue of learning about aspects not directly related to engineering/the robot (such as storyboards, film composition, computer networking, etc.) that wouldn't have been opened if not for the format of the competition. If it changes, even if 3ds max is still incorporated, it may lose a great deal of the other ANIMATION related qualities. Maybe those aren't important to some of you, but to many in FIRST, they are critical. There's a difference between learning to make a 3d model and learning to make a 30-second short film.

[Andrew Schreiber]

I disagree with the whole "let's wait and see" mentality. Let's make it known, now, in a polite and professional fashion that the AVA was an important part of FIRST for many people. Maybe it's still around in some form, who knows? But if we let FIRST know it's value NOW, it will help encourage FIRST and Autodesk to continue to keep the award around in their plans and hopefully help it be a part of the upcoming Awards section of the manual.
If it still exists, they may roll their eyes at us and continue. If it doesn't, they'll take notice with time still left to change it.


I was a member of a team where the animation took a very prominant role. It was one of the largest, if not the largest, group of students working on an individual sub-team/project year after year. It was a source of team pride, a powerful promotional tool, and an additional avenue of learning about aspects not directly related to engineering/the robot (such as storyboards, film composition, computer networking, etc.) that wouldn't have been opened if not for the format of the competition. If it changes, even if 3ds max is still incorporated, it may lose a great deal of the other ANIMATION related qualities. Maybe those aren't important to some of you, but to many in FIRST, they are critical. There's a difference between learning to make a 3d model and learning to make a 30-second short film.

Sean, I agree that AVA is a very important part of FIRST. It does attract a group we might not otherwise inspire and it does show students there are different opportunities. I will never say that it is not important or should be eliminated. Nor will I ever tell a student that they should stop working on an animation (even if there is no award) because we need them to build something. It sucks to hear a mentor say that what you are working hard on is something "no one really cares about". I imagine it would suck much harder to hear FIRST come out and say that but I highly doubt that is what they are going to do.

I say we should let FIRST explain their change before we fly off the handle. Expressing a concern about this topic is great, it shows enthusiasm and passion, neither of which are a bad thing when expressed respectfully. Making posts in all caps with a half dozen exclamation points after each sentence is flying off the handle. It does not show passion or enthusiasm it shows ignorance and immaturity. Now, are the concerns voiced valid? I worry they are. This does not mean that we should assume that FIRST is removing our beloved competition. FIRST has usually been pretty good about improvements (they try to be at least). I trust FIRST because they do have a good cause and some brilliant people helping them towards that cause. I am not saying don't express concern, nor am I saying not to question the great and mighty FIRST. Just relax a bit, we know very little about this right now and for all we know it could be a really awesome change.

[JaneYoung]

I would like to have a clearer understanding of the reasoning behind the retirement of the awards. Further, I would like to have an understanding of why the AVA has not been able to gain a strong foothold in the FRC competition yet it has continued to make an impact on teams and on individuals.

We don't have enough information or know enough about the new award to be able to understand how this will impact the absence of the other two awards. To defend the AVA, at this point, would be to do so without knowing what's coming up in 2010. If we were to begin some form of writing campaign in defense of the AVA, it would, indeed, have to be done mindfully in a professional and polite fashion.

[Kevin Thorp]

Although there is quite a bit of overlap, Inventor & Autocad are primarily design tools, 3ds Max & Maya are visualization tools.

Maybe the challenge this year will be to design some type device or product (that will help humanity of course), and create a commercial to "market" it. You could do it all in 3ds Max, or if you had a strong CAD team, they could be more involved in the design while the visualization team was working on a creative marketing ideas. Of course both teams would have to work well together to have a chance at winning.

Hmmm... very different teams with diverse skill sets learning how to work together to deliver a winning product? Sounds like they're preparing you for life in the "real world". For example check out this Prius ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq4nrmnqY9o). I'm sure CAD software was used to design the car and a creative visualization team was hired to develop the commercial.

But I'm just speculating. Looking forward to the next clue from Autodesk.

[Rich Kressly]

The two awards were nice to have, no doubt, but do we REALLY need an award to motivate groups to do top notch work with any software if the AVA should entirely "go away"? There are many ways 3DS Max projects can be part of the FIRST experience without the award. I bet animation strong programs could make one heck of an animated movie to sell their program and utilize locally. If fact, I think you could do your team's entire Chairman's Award video using Max if you really wanted to.

[Kevin Thorp]

Wow - I didn't mean to start a panic! I probably should have titled this thread "Major changes in the Autodesk Visualization Award"

We don't know what changes are coming but I'm sure students using 3ds Max will be able to compete for the new award.

[dlavery]

Express your concerns.

Now.

Loudly (but respectfully).

Timing is everything.

Just be aware that not every one of these decisions emanate solely or directly from FIRST Headquarters in Manchester. They may be merely the funnel through which information flows from multiple sources. So, should you choose to make your concerns known, you might consider doing so in a manner that is clear, concise, and able to stand alone with no additional supporting information - as that is likely how it may have to be forwarded to the appropriate people.

-dave




...

[JaneYoung]

Express your concerns.

Now.

Loudly (but respectfully).

Timing is everything.



It might be helpful to start a new thread that outlines what we want to do. I'm not sure we would want to hijack this thread for that purpose.

Jane


Edit: ok, I'll start the new thread. I'll think about it for a little while this evening and then start it. In the opening post, I will include the link that Sean included in his post. I'll post a couple of suggestions and if anyone wants to add suggestions, cool. If someone starts a thread before I get finished thinking about it - that's cool, too.

Here's the new thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=882435#post882435).

[Ted Boardman]

>>Or maybe we should wait for details before flying off the handle? Yes BB said there would be a restructuring but that was all. Wait until the Awards section comes out and THEN make a call for the reasoning.<<

Hi All,

Andrew has the right idea here. There are changes coming, but nothing is cast in stone yet, so it would be premature to speculate too much.

You will be able to compete with Inventor, Max, or Maya.

Now, having said that, please don't hound me for details, but stay tuned to www.autodesk.com/first (http://www.autodesk.com/first) for announcements.

Thanks for your patience.

P.S. I will be trying to monitor this site this year to help with 3ds Max related topics. I don't use Maya or Inventor, though.

Later
Ted

[inventor_phild]

Hi All,

Just adding onto Ted's posting. I will also be monitoring the site this year and will provide help on Inventor related topics.

Phil

[Madison]

My team's experience has been that the Autodesk Visualization Award provides a fantastic, creative outlet for team members that are uninterested in or intimidated by more technical work.

I hope that, whatever changes come, some consideration is given to the success that the program has had in the past by engaging students' creative goals and technology simultaneously.

I love CAD work, but it's not for everyone and I'd hate to see that, by eliminating the awards recognizing these unique skills, y'all ascribe higher value to one over the other.

[Ted Boardman]

>>but it's not for everyone and I'd hate to see that, by eliminating the awards recognizing these unique skills, y'all ascribe higher value to one over the other<<

That's what keeps me coming back every year, Madison. This opens up the process to those who use the other half of the brain (can't remember which is which!!!!).

This is "communication" of ideas rather than hands-on technical stuff and it appeals to a group of people usually that would not feel comfortable getting involved with robots, per se. It's actually tougher to do because it's so subjective, but it doesn't matter how good something is if you can't get the word out.

A prize should not be the goal, although there's no doubt that's certainly an incentive to try and I hope everyone keeps it in perspective.

Thanks for your input.

Ted

[Rich Kressly]

Phil and Ted in the same CD thread (I'm not trying to rhyme, I'm really not :)). Welcome guys, and thanks for being here.

(and on a side note let me publicly state that working on the Autodesk VEX curriculum project with Phil awhile back was one of the coolest things ever. He's soooo darn good it's mind-blowing)

[Ted Boardman]

>>Welcome guys, and thanks for being here<<

Thanks much, Rich.

Ted

[andrewszatkowsk]

The new award will not incorporate animation hardly at all. THis is just FIRST's way of phasing out animation, which is a shame, because its the only thing keeping some people in

[Koko Ed]

The new award will not incorporate animation hardly at all. THis is just FIRST's way of phasing out animation, which is a shame, because its the only thing keeping some people in

What are you talking about? You can still enter animations to be judged. Where did you get that there is no more animation competition?

[Kevin Thorp]

Andrew, The "Exellence in Design" award has 2 catagories: CAD (Inventor) and Animation (3ds Max or Maya). The animation contest is almost identical to last years. :)

Details: http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Community/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2010_Assets/FIRST%202010%20Autodesk%20Award.pdf

[Suiraqua]

Kevin, thanks for posting that! My team and I have already gotten storyboards and designs started!

When I didn't see the AVA listed in the game manual I was going "NO! Please keep animation going!!!" I was glad to find see they just renamed it and such.

I also love how the theme didn't really change that much from last year. It's still 'Change your world', but now we don't have to use something from nature to do it (thank goodness; ours was really LAME).