2010 Game Hint #2

[Chris is me]

Rumor #2: Canadians don't know what the proper way to choose alliances is. (Who cares who 1114 and 2056's third partner is? They're still going to win!)

Odd, considering the 2006 and 2008 captains were Canadian :)

I dunno what about the hint indicates the end of the serpentine (which I happen to like, unless the competition is the IRI).

[JKWarrior]

Just curious but where did you get those pictures from?

samsies

[JKWarrior]

hmm * thinks of overdrive year :rolleyes: *

Overdrive was dumb, and it lacked creativity. I mean come on NASCAR? I understand that the silly sport is really helpful in the design and technology of new cars, including efficiency and aerodynamics, but i almost died of shame that First couldn't come up with a more creative game.

[Katie_UPS]

Overdrive was dumb, and it lacked creativity. I mean come on NASCAR? I understand that the silly sport is really helpful in the design and technology of new cars, including efficiency and aerodynamics, but i almost died of shame that First couldn't come up with a more creative game.

What if they weren't thinking "NASCAR" and were thinking "Toad's Turnpike"?

I think its kinda lame that you're bashing them like that. I've been on a GDC for a mentor challenge. Every once in a while you get an outstanding game idea and refine it till it's fantastic. But if that doesn't happen, its INCREDIBLY HARD to make up a new game to play.

+$.02

[JKWarrior]

[QUOTE=Karibou;893813]Not quite. Maize Craze was played on corn, if Wikipedia is indeed correct (and I trust the FIRST community to keep it as such). I think that there were a few other playing surfaces too, but as I have little knowledge of past games, I don't know which ones they were. Weren't the ramps for 2007 diamond-plate?


entrance ramps are the same but the ramps that count were actual robots

[JKWarrior]

What if they weren't thinking "NASCAR" and were thinking "Toad's Turnpike"?

I think its kinda lame that you're bashing them like that. I've been on a GDC for a mentor challenge. Every once in a while you get an outstanding game idea and refine it till it's fantastic. But if that doesn't happen, its INCREDIBLY HARD to make up a new game to play.

+$.02

im sure you are right and im sorry that im a liitle un familiar with Toads Turnpike, unless you are sayimg mario cart 64, in which i give you mad props. i guess im just a NASCAR hater

[infinitydex]

-finnaly school is over wat up people

-any ideas on the field floor:confused:
-and the first hint was as some of my team members said was a object holder:confused:

-any ideas on the objecs that will be used
-on another skript page i herd something about shooting objects threw holes in a wall that separates the field.
:yikes: :D :yikes:

[Taylor]

-finnaly school is over wat up people

-any ideas on the field floor:confused:
-and the first hint was as some of my team members said was a object holder:confused:

-any ideas on the objecs that will be used
-on another skript page i herd something about shooting objects threw holes in a wall that separates the field.
:yikes: :D :yikes:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78869

[jamie_1930]

Overdrive was dumb, and it lacked creativity. I mean come on NASCAR? I understand that the silly sport is really helpful in the design and technology of new cars, including efficiency and aerodynamics, but i almost died of shame that First couldn't come up with a more creative game.

In my opinion overdrive was fine, it had a lot more to do with coming up with ways to capture, move, and hurdle the tracks balls, then it had to do with NASCAR. It seems to have lacked creativity when you think of it at first, but it made for an interesting game, have you ever seen so many robots tip over before?

[onetree3]

I think the floor is just a distraction. But i don't think that the gate is the focus. Lots of people think that the yellow things are to Velcro to hold down the field. They have to be touching the floor for the velcro to work and it appears that the gold things are slightly off the ground.

[EricH]

I think the floor is just a distraction. But i don't think that the gate is the focus. Lots of people think that the yellow things are to Velcro to hold down the field. They have to be touching the floor for the velcro to work and it appears that the gold things are slightly off the ground.
It's not that we think that, it's that we know that. I've said this before, but I've helped set up the field at least once per year at an official event since 2007. Every year, both sides got 4 trip guards, one over every support on the outside.

They are flat because they are made flat, then they bend under the Velcro that holds them to the floor and the metal they protect people from, if they aren't pre-bent.

[infinitydex]

by my oppinion i think that the wall is a large part of the competition because that means the field will be split or that that image is a side wall image and its to keep objects from flying all over the place :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

[Rick TYler]

It seems to have lacked creativity when you think of it at first, but it made for an interesting game, have you ever seen so many robots tip over before?

Yes -- in 2005. (Why do I feel like this must be a trick question?) A lot of robots rolled on the ramps in 2006, too.

[Thuvishan.R]

Would someone be able to verify that the "Gate" looks wider than it has been in past seasons? or is that just me seeing things because of the scaling of the image?

Assuming that I can clearly varify where the gate is located it looks like the size of the gate hasn't changed so that dosn't mean larger robots. Although it looks like the place ment of the gates have changed :cool: Meaning that the gates might be in the centre of the field thus the scoring objectives would be down on opposite ends. which would lead into the new DS because if the opposing teams robots were down on the opposing alliance side, Their view would be obstructed thus meaning that the robots would do better if they had visual capabilities coming from a camera attached to the robots. Allowing drivers to visually see the targets through the DS if all else fails.

Just my $0.02:rolleyes:

[infinitydex]

I think the floor is just a distraction. But i don't think that the gate is the focus. Lots of people think that the yellow things are to Velcro to hold down the field. They have to be touching the floor for the velcro to work and it appears that the gold things are slightly off the ground.

my point is that wat about the wall seems to be conected to the metal rods. the wall means that there trying to keep stuff in the field. so i think there will be objects flying aroud the field projected from other robots.
didnt they have a wall in the 2008 competition to keep the balls in the field.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Karibou]

Yes -- in 2005. (Why do I feel like this must be a trick question?) A lot of robots rolled on the ramps in 2006, too.

Don't forget 2008! So many tipped robots from mis-hurdling and metaphorically T-boning the overpass...

[EricH]

Every year, they have had the border that is currently displayed in some form.

In 2008, there was indeed a larger wall, near the overpass. There was also a center divider, if you'll recall. The purpose was to keep the folks that were right there from the effects of a missed hurdle, as running is a bit harder if you've got a scoring device in hand or on the table in front of you. The fence used was not attached to the field border in any way, shape, or form, save some zipties between members at passing points.

In 2006 and 2009, no such walls existed; the standard field border was deemed sufficient. In the rare cases it wasn't, a field reset person would give chase to the offending ball.

(Reason to be Field Reset rather than Scorekeeper #47: You get your daily exercise.:p)

[JimWright949]

Hmmm. What if the gate is not a gate but instead of a gait (a manner of walking).

Which leads me back to my game theory I shaired with the Washington State FIRST board last night:
O Walking robots, no wheels allowed.
O 3x3x3 matches (yep 9 teams on the field)
O The robots will have to 'launch' bowling balls around the field.
O In order to involve more chemistry students, the 'launching'
mechanism for the bowling balls have to be a chemical reaction and not mechanical.
O There isn't a speed limit on the speed of the bowling balls,
however there is a limit on the chemicals that a team can use to cause the reaction.

ok ok ok, maybe just the first point is valid.

-Jim

[Brian C]

y my, many folks are thinking 2v2 and 3v3...............

What about 4v0 and everyone has to work together towards a common goal, similar to 2001?

Or maybe......maybe...no not 6v0!!:eek:

[EricH]

2001 was one of the least-liked games in FRC history. I'd have to say that if the GDC brought it back at all, especially the Xv0, they would hear more about it than from 2008's <G22> and 2009's <G14> combined. (You might also include 2005's loading zone penalties, but that's probably stretching it a bit too far.)

[infinitydex]

Hmmm. What if the gate is not a gate but instead of a gait (a manner of walking).

Which leads me back to my game theory I shaired with the Washington State FIRST board last night:
O Walking robots, no wheels allowed.
O 3x3x3 matches (yep 9 teams on the field)
O The robots will have to 'launch' bowling balls around the field.
O In order to involve more chemistry students, the 'launching'
mechanism for the bowling balls have to be a chemical reaction and not mechanical.
O There isn't a speed limit on the speed of the bowling balls,
however there is a limit on the chemicals that a team can use to cause the reaction.

ok ok ok, maybe just the first point is valid.

-Jim

chemical reactions!!!:yikes: i cant see in first robotics that they would have a chemestry class. walking robots seem alittle out there but now that i look at the first hint that may be possible. rods are legs, center piece that bent 90 degree as a hip, and the center whole as a joint.:D :cool: :] :confused:

[EricH]

I think I'll put that chemical reaction suggestion into my proposal for a 2012 water game. Something about how many different H2O-triggered reactions can you get without a big mess, and then what can you do with the products.

[gaby1367]

i think that they are gonna add a new alliance to the game so instead of 2v2 its 3v3

[infinitydex]

i think that they are gonna add a new alliance to the game so instead of 2v2 its 3v3

last year it was 3 vs 3 not 2 vs 2. y is i a new to have 3 vs 3 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Elgin Clock]

i think that they are gonna add a new alliance to the game so instead of 2v2 its 3v3

last year it was 3 vs 3 not 2 vs 2. y is i a new to have 3 vs 3 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I believe Gaby meant to say 3 separate teams. Red, Blue, & possibly some other color.
That would then make 2v2v2, and not 3v3.
We already have 3v3. :)

[qwertyuiop[]\]

all this hint means is that we are going to have the same walls and that the floor is going to be carpet. nothing else. no depth. everything is at the surface. This is only even a hint because of last years game.

[Don Wright]

Or maybe 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1...

So, no official alliances, but if you help another team, you can get Coopertition points...

[Chris is me]

Plenty of people have proposed that the game will be 2x2x2, but has anyone suggested the game would be 4v4 with smaller robots?

This theory matches the "10 qualifying rounds for every regional" blog post of yesteryear. Haagen Daas cups have been resized recently to become smaller... hmm.

[viper110110]

I noticed in the shipping rules that the max height for the crate was 6 feet including the bottom 4x4s. If your crate is 6 feet tall with 4 inch supports and about an inch of plywood, your bot can't have a height of 6 feet unless you disassemble it. I think we are going to have smaller bots this year.

[dodar]

how do you come to that solution, you robot can only be a max of 5ft tall. That is more than enough room in that situation for your crate to fit your robot

[viper110110]

how do you come to that solution, you robot can only be a max of 5ft tall. That is more than enough room in that situation for your crate to fit your robot

Oh my mistake, I thought in the past it has always been 6 feet. At least we know that the robots won't be any bigger this year.

[Robert Cawthon]

Plenty of people have proposed that the game will be 2x2x2, but has anyone suggested the game would be 4v4 with smaller robots?

This theory matches the "10 qualifying rounds for every regional" blog post of yesteryear. Haagen Daas cups have been resized recently to become smaller... hmm.

Yes, several people have, in other threads and, I believe, this one, but I don't feel like looking back to verify. There has been speculation of 4v4 or 5v5 with smaller bots. The 5v5 could have teams 4 and 5 placed on a higher level between the first three teams. Whatever one would think of, the free thinkers on this site have probably thought of it and some would even post it and admit to it. I am one of these people. 24 hrs!! :confused:

[Taylor]

Hmmm. What if the gate is not a gate but instead of a gait (a manner of walking).

I'm surprised not many people have made more of this. The clues haven't been attacked as creatively as they have in the past. Recalling 2006's clue (the "a shovel's show" line in particular), as well as Dave's morse-ing, perhaps we should be taking a more abstract look at what's been presented to us, rather than accepting two CAD renderings at face value.

Oh my mistake, I thought in the past it has always been 6 feet. At least we know that the robots won't be any bigger this year.

Perhaps, but it is not uncommon for robots to extend beyond their original starting dimensions, particularly vertically. The 2009 game was a HUGE abberation in that regard.

[vic burg]

So, I am kind of late on this but:
Pretty sure we are just being teased again. Although it is nice to know that we *should* have carpet again. It's easier to set up in my opinion.... lol
Did think about possibly a third gate, but a) that would be extra work for the field crew and they would have to remake how many fields? (only by a small bit, but still extra work), b) would they REALLY allow humans onto the field during a match? and c) what would be the purpose, really? I mean, if it's for the game pieces, I don't think that they would be that big or heavy to the point that they need to be pushed through a gate.

[Lil' Lavery]

In my opinion overdrive was fine, it had a lot more to do with coming up with ways to capture, move, and hurdle the tracks balls, then it had to do with NASCAR. It seems to have lacked creativity when you think of it at first, but it made for an interesting game, have you ever seen so many robots tip over before?

I saw plenty of robots tip in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Heck, 2009 is basically the only game where robot tippings were infrequent in quite some time.

[jerry w]

Every year, they have had the border that is currently displayed in some form.
...

In 2006 and 2009, no such walls existed; the standard field border was deemed sufficient. In the rare cases it wasn't, a field reset person would give chase to the offending ball.

(Reason to be Field Reset rather than Scorekeeper #47: You get your daily exercise.:p)

Again you are belittling the scorekeeper...
If a moonrock sailed toward the scoring table, we could either catch it or let it hit us in the head. I chose the latter, so that I could get up and get the game piece. Thus I got plenty of exercise.

btw, We hate when someone stands in front of the table. So, having a gate in the field center would mean too many people near field center. This would make me very unhappy. Thus I refuse to believe in the third gate...:cool:

[vic burg]

btw, We hate when someone stands in front of the table. So, having a gate in the field center would mean too many people near field center. This would make me very unhappy. Thus I refuse to believe in the third gate...:cool:

I totally agree. But that would add what, at least 2 more people to field crew? Which is not that bad, but when you have a well oiled machine normally and random people show up to volunteer, although wonderful, they sometimes don't know what to do with themselves during the matches. Heck, sometimes I don't and this is my 4th year as field crew (crosses fingers in hope) so more people would be an issue in my opinion. Plus, it would interfere with the radio but then we could dance more (gotta love the Florida Regional)!!!! hee hee.

[johnr]

One more guess. Hint one still looks to me like the plastic device moves back and forth along the smaller pipe with stopping pegs at each end. Now add spring/rubberbands from plastic to front and simple handle on back. You now have a shooting device for human player. Second hint is most likely a side rail. Side rail as in billards.
One more thing. Does anyone else see an optical illusion in second hint? The dark area looks like it is humped up,like a hill.

[Spylake]

I'm wondering if the floor is actual smooth and non porous. I notice that the bottom rails are flat like a hockey rink.

Put those together and maybe air cushion game pieces and or robots are in order this year.

My other idea is the expected emphasis on image recognition that FIRST has been hinting at. Maybe the floor is some special monochromatic color that is easy to process.

[eaglecat]

I posted this over in rumor mill. Now found the better spot. I'm a newbie to CD, but not to forums. :)

Looking at the official hint #2 on the FRC webpage.
http://usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/content.aspx?id=16119
It would appear the yellow squares are tripped targets, having been tipped over.

Combined with the 2010 Winter Olympics this year. My personal guess is that we shall have a BIATHLON Competition. This would be most unique compared to previous years, and a bit of a pain to setup for the hosts, as far as space required. Nonetheless. It would be cool.

I searched for "biathlon" before posting. No one had made a post with the word. So hopefully this is not redundant.

http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-biathlon/additional-information/about-the-sport_144492xG.html

- eaglecat

[Refresh]

I believe its the railing of the side of the field. The yellow things are there to keep it in place. I really am stumped because there isn't much of a hint.

[Chexposito]

I think everyone's to critical about trying to figure it out, we'll get the hints tom. after the game is revealed. Save your minds for the task at hand after it's revealed.

Maybe they're making reference to the hockey boards with the yellow along the bottom. A hockey based game would be fun , and would go along with the minimal penalty idea if they want to keep it! Also could be very exciting compared to years past, with points being harder to get and less points to count, keeping the matches close.

[JaneYoung]

CAD
rail

Even more fun, if you search for CAD gate - you can find water valves. :)

Ok, time to leave CD for a while.

[Bob Steele]

Oh my mistake, I thought in the past it has always been 6 feet. At least we know that the robots won't be any bigger this year.

By the way... 3 years ago (Rack and Roll) we could have 6 foot tall robots (but they had to be lighter..)

The crate requirements were the same though.... so you had to break it down for shipping.

FYI


good luck!!

[infinitydex]

almost time for the kickoff
-does anybody have any idea on the wall of the field??:confused: ??
-is it for flying objects and is hint #1 legs for a walking competition. and on a different chat site, the image of hint #2 is just a regular wall, boarding ramp, and the yellow things are supports for the field when people crash into it.
:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

[MarcD79]

Those yellow things are the counter weights to hold the railing upright. The yellow is to alert anybody that they are there & not to trip on them. The gate does in fact look like it is more center field oriented. On the original field setup, there aren't any counter weights between the gate & the end of the field. As for gate size, I agree, angle of sight.

[MarcD79]

As one who has built many fields both at Suffield Shakedown & Hartford Regional., What you are looking at for hint #2 is a normal field configuration in a cad program mode. I do agree the gate is not at the end.

[Monty Python]

It does appear as if the gate is in the middle of the field and while I can definitely see FIRST doing something unpredictable and changing up the alliance structure, my gut feeling is that they won't (not basing this off of anything, it just seems unlikely to me). So to me, the question becomes why bother moving the gate? My guess would be because human players have to stand in that area. If human players are standing on one side of the field, they can't be symmetrical across the field and there could be some competitive advantage for either side (obviously FIRST wouldn't want an inherently unfair game). This leads me to believe that human players will have limited importance this year and, for instance, will play a role more akin to their role in Stack Attack as opposed to their incredibly important role in Lunacy.

[ttldomination]

It does appear as if the gate is in the middle of the field and while I can definitely see FIRST doing something unpredictable and changing up the alliance structure, my gut feeling is that they won't (not basing this off of anything, it just seems unlikely to me). So to me, the question becomes why bother moving the gate? My guess would be because human players have to stand in that area. If human players are standing on one side of the field, they can't be symmetrical across the field and there could be some competitive advantage for either side (obviously FIRST wouldn't want an inherently unfair game). This leads me to believe that human players will have limited importance this year and, for instance, will play a role more akin to their role in Stack Attack as opposed to their incredibly important role in Lunacy.


Maybe the reason they might move to the gates to the middle is because the place where we score is now up against the driver stations, and the starting positions lie in a manner that would've caused problems with the traditional setup.

Of course that's just speculation and in roughly 12 hours time, we'll see exactly how far off we were.

Sleep well Chief Delphi, because for the next 6 weeks, sleep is only for the weak. :D

[EricH]

perhaps we should be taking a more abstract look at what's been presented to us, rather than accepting two CAD renderings at face value.I did propose that the game could have a parallel theme. Parallel communication, maybe.

[FIRSTgirl675]

Its a new decade and it has been a while since FIRST has done any sort of game that combined elements from past years. Maybe this year the game is going to be a combination of games from years past. When I see the yellow rectangles outside of the field, they remind me of the pressure pads that human players had to stand on at the end of Human Player Period in 2003's Stack Attack (also conveniently the last time FIRST used blocks). With both hints, I feel that this years game will be some sort of blast from the past using cube-shaped game pieces.
There's my .02

[Spylake]

My predictions.


You will have to collect and sort colored balls with the camera. Hence the uniform dark floor.

The balls need to be placed on elevated tracks of which HINT #1 is the connector and mount piece.

The tracks are inclined and roll the balls into the goal.

Goal tending will be allowed but you can not touch the track when trying to dislodge a ball nor can you simply block the track.


But then what the heck do I know. I'll be quiet now.

[purduephotog]

I was disappointed last year that a walking robot wasn't an option.

I agree that slide/pipe arrangement reminds me of a tennis ball shooter I once saw in American Gladiators. The acrylic/lexan material gives me worries, obviously, but that can be handled.

And if there IS only one gate this year I fear very much for venues that choose schedule over function. There were many robots last year that didn't boot up under the new hardware... and sat out the play.

[startech47]

Is the bracket really to be fabricated out of Lexan? Things may not be what they seem.

Why is everyone still waiting for the water game? The game committee gave it to us last year. What has earth normal gravity, but very low horizontal traction? Simulated artificial ice. Ice is frozen water. At the regional in New Jersey we were playing on artificial ice (Regolith) that was laid down over the real ice of the hokey arena. We even saw the Zamboni in the back. I thought that was pretty cool. Pardon the pun.

All of the reflections are correct. The pipe at an angle is a double reflection.

[infinitydex]

good luck people and i must say any1 missing parts for their kit.
the best idea is just to camp in the tunnel by my point of view.:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Karibou]

Is the bracket really to be fabricated out of Lexan? Things may not be what they seem.


I think that may have been exactly what Dave was hinting at, if he was indeed using morse code to drop hints. The hint that we were given was clearly made out to be Lexan. However, if you look at the actual part on the field, the top part (or what appears to be the top part of the supposed-Lexan piece shown in the hint picture) is shaped slightly differently, and it's made out of clear Polycarbonate.

[Trent B]

GE-10017 drawing shows the part as clear Polycarbonate.

[engunneer]

Lexan is Polycarbonate... no?

[Peter Matteson]

Lexan is Polycarbonate... no?

Yes, Lexan is the GE Plastics trade name for Poly-carbonate.