Strategy

[Austinmead]

what do you guys think of this?
robot is offensive, a kicking mechanism....with treads to allow it to go over the bumps?
any other things i should add to the idea???

[viperred396]

what do you guys think of this?
robot is offensive, a kicking mechanism....with treads to allow it to go over the bumps?
any other things i should add to the idea???


I dont understand what you are asking. Are you asking us to design your bot/bouncing ideas of of us/ or something else?

also your title really has nothing to do with your thread and this post probably be in the "General Forum"

[Storm 2729]

what do you guys think of this?
robot is offensive, a kicking mechanism....with treads to allow it to go over the bumps?
any other things i should add to the idea???

We were thinking that treads might not be so effective, and to instead utilize tank drive. We had used tank drive last year and its something that's easy to build and service.

[cooldude8181]

My team doesn't like the idea of treads because we think that it will slow the bot down to much for them to actually be effective.

[timytamy]

If you were planing to go over the bumps I would recomend threads as it will allow you to have traction along the whole of your base. However, when you turn with threads you drag over 90% of the threads. So if you plan to move fast the threads may not be a good option.

In saying that I could be completely wrong :confused:

Thanks,
timytamy

[carbuff2228]

i think this year alot of team will go with mecanum

[Lil' Lavery]

My team doesn't like the idea of treads because we think that it will slow the bot down to much for them to actually be effective.

Treads have no relation to the speed of the robot.

[Michael Ogden]

what do you guys think of this?
robot is offensive, a kicking mechanism....with treads to allow it to go over the bumps?
any other things i should add to the idea???
If your robot is offensive, ther is no need to go over the bumps.

[carbuff2228]

If your robot is offensive, ther is no need to go over the bumps.

Yeah there is in my opinion to be able to do end game if you have it and to score the ball if you dont have a long range shooter

[Who?]

what do you guys think of this?
robot is offensive, a kicking mechanism....with treads to allow it to go over the bumps?
any other things i should add to the idea???

personally i think you should exile the tread/track idea all together just for the sake of manuverability, with treads you wil have little to no turning capabilities on the carpet or whatever substance we will be driving on.

[BrianCloutier]

My team doesn't like the idea of treads because we think that it will slow the bot down to much for them to actually be effective.

We had the same idea, we value being agile much more than being "tank-like"

[carbuff2228]

yeah while you lose pushing power with manuverability you can easily get away from a defensive bot thats not manuverable

[Daniel_LaFleur]

If your robot is offensive, ther is no need to go over the bumps.

Don't be too sure about that ;)

[KrakatoaCoo]

what do you guys think of this?
robot is offensive, a kicking mechanism....with treads to allow it to go over the bumps?
any other things i should add to the idea???

treads may not be that great on handling and speed......unless your team is willing to give that up for going over bumps........

my team is basing our new drive train on our 2006 robot, The Commander, which went over bumps like it was flat!

[MrForbes]

with treads you wil have little to no turning capabilities on the carpet or whatever substance we will be driving on.

Don't be so sure about that. I've seen some well designed treaded robots that can turn very well. You do have to design it right...and that generally means lots of rollers to support the tread, and having the height of each roller just right. Well done, tread type robots are very intimidating.

[MFennig8]

I have to say, treads, as much as our team has never tried them, seem to be a really good aspect. One of the members on my team brought up having three lines of tread, having four separate parts like they are tires and even a snowmobile idea with treads in back with wheels on front.

But looking at it, and how our team has come across being the strong defensive team we are, 6 wheel drive is our way of thinking. Having all 6 wheels powered off of two center wheel drive motors. We had a 2 wheel drive on aim high and it went smoothly up the 30 degree ramp of 2FT. We figure, why not do that and add a two speed transmission to the mix to get that extra help.

[CallieJ]

Our team did some prototyping and found that if the robot was under 18" high it seemed to be fine on the bumps, without tipping. This is also useful because it happens to be the height of the tunnel, so it leaves that option open. The chassis we were using had 6 wheels, a little smaller than the required ones for Lunacy.

[LostProphet]

You could possibly put a dome on top of the robot so you would not get penalized for holding the ball.

[Austinmead]

or you put memory foam on top of the robot and angle it to the front of the robot so the soccer ball falls infront of you....

[fsgond]

If your robot is offensive, ther is no need to go over the bumps.

I think a good robot is able to do all aspects of the game, with that said I have seen a few very simple bots make it with a very specialized design.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I think a good robot is able to do all aspects of the game, with that said I have seen a few very simple bots make it with a very specialized design.

I believe that it's more important that what you do, you do well. Rather than playing the entire game. You have alliance partners to cover for your weaknesses (if you choose wisely)

Also, It doesn't matter how well you can play the different phases of the game if your robot is broken all the time. So build it "to work every time"

[PIDman]

Totally agree with Daniel LaFleur on this one. Good robots can do everything. Great robots can do one thing, and do it incredibly well.

[Bob Steele]

I believe teams need to think about playing this game just like playing soccer.
On the pitch you want to keep control of the ball... moving it from the midfield and into scoring position. At the same time you should be always watching for opportunities to score..

In this game you have 12 balls... not really all that many on this big field...you may be surprised when you start to play how much empty real estate will be there...

My evaluation is to continuously move balls towards your goal area...
If you have a shot take it... if you don't, just keep the pressure on the area in front of your goals... If you can keep more balls on your side of the field... the opposing team will have a difficult time controlling them.

Remember you can control your home zone... you can dump 8-10 balls in there and then bring your robots up and into the zone... the opposing team can only have one robot there.... you can then overwhelm the other team by blocking them and wait until close to the end and put the balls in...
Waiting to score until the end will mean the scored balls won't be put into play until too late for the other alliance to use them.

I believe this strategy will be seen in Atlanta...

When I coached and played soccer it is the same strategy... only with one ball....keep control... keep pressure on the defense... string them out...move the ball from side to side until you have an opportunity...then push through to the goal...

Keeping the other side unbalanced while you attack gives you a great advantage...

good luck to everyone we will enjoy seeing you on the field!!

[JohnFogarty]

The Treads have to be built right that is the main thing, you have to take all variables into concern. We built a friction drive Tread system and geared it to have the strength of 10 Bears.

The Turn issue you guys talked about earlier is not a problem at all, we actually turn better then previously built wheeled robots.

The best part of this is the fact that you get in a pushing battle with someone who has treads......I'm afraid you won't have much luck ;) . I have already myself tried stopping our robot and it didn't turn out well.

We did have a center of gravity issue, but we resolved it by relocating the battery. If all goes well we didn't even build a hanging mechanism, we either shall try to get in other peoples way or the best part just driving up onto the box.

Have Fun out there :D

[Wayne TenBrink]

What's a defense bot to do?

During qualification matches, if you spend all your time blocking an offense bot, you aren't moving balls to your own offense bots or building your own score. If you are successful at hindering your opponent's best scorer, you are just reducing your own qual points.

If you are a really good defender, you should still get picked for eliminations. But then where do you spend your time? If you join your teammate in the mid zone, then your opponents will probably do the same thing, leaving both home zones undefended. The quickest & strongest ball handler in the center zone holds the advantage.

How many balls need to be in your opponents home zone before you feel the need to go back there to play D?

In my opinion, good defense will require more than just pinning an offense bot. A good defense bot needs the ability to get the ball away from the blocked offense bot and move it downfield.

[carbuff2228]

[QUOTE=GingerBreadMan;928112]Totally agree with Daniel LaFleur on this one. Good robots can do everything. Great robots can do one thing, and do it incredibly well


i kind of disagree compared to like 148 and 217 and the other usual power houses they are great in my opinion because they can do everything well

[drtysteve384]

just sit your defending zone kick balls across the field and when you run out go into the middle and just kick balls like their is no tommorow, to prevent your opponet from having balls and scoring, and have a robot play defense and if there is a robot with a weak kicker jut put them in offense zone and kick balls into the goals, as it is not the much of a distance to kick...

[Chris is me]

i kind of disagree compared to like 148 and 217 and the other usual power houses they are great in my opinion because they can do everything well

Can 148 or 217 go under the tunnel or suspend robots?

Though the best antithesis to the everything argument is probably 148 in 2008.

[carbuff2228]

no but in my opinion it is not needed to go under the tunnel as long as you can go over the bump well like 148 or 217. Though they cannot hang robots to my knowledge they can still do everything exceptionally well thats why i think there great

[thefro526]

Though the best antithesis to the everything argument is probably 148 in 2008.

Agreed.

It seems like Tumbleweed comes up in 50% of the strategy discussions here on CD.

[Chris is me]

Regardless of your opinion on the issue, everyone's robot's in the crate, so you'd better tune a strategy to whatever you just shipped.

What can you do better than average? Capitalize on that. (The teams that can do more than one thing better than average don't need a CD post to tell them how to make a strategy.) If you have higher traction than normal, run screens for more agile alliance partners. Got a sweet mecanum drive? Swerve around your defenders and score. Got possession, but no kick? Secure balls and get them to your partners to score. There's something for everyone.

Can't do better than average on anything? Design is an iterative process, you have at least 3 days, probably more to improve something. 65 pounds is a lot.

[Lil' Lavery]

Can 148 or 217 go under the tunnel or suspend robots?

Though the best antithesis to the everything argument is probably 148 in 2008.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with them, but I've heard many a person suggest that 148 was "carried" in 2008. They aren't the end-all, be-all argument that you propse they are.

There are many excellent teams that focus on single aspects of the game, and there are many who "do everything." Look at 254/60 in 2004, for example. Then there are great "specialist" bots from great teams, such as 233 in 2007. It all depends on individual design and strategy, and there usually isn't a right answer to the question. Doing additional tasks does not automatically mean you sacrifice the quality of your "main function" (if you even set a specific task as your main).

Good teams can identify roles within a strategy and how to best fill them. They can create designs to fill those roles, and see how well they fill them and if a single design might be able to fill multiple roles (or if it can be combined with other designs).

[Chris is me]

I'm a bit more strongly emphasizing "you do one thing well" than "do everything" when it's not that simple. Essentially I agree with Sean. The point I want to make is that you shouldn't spend the build season insisting you have to do everything in order to be competitive; more thought needs to be put into it than that.

[XaulZan11]

Though the best antithesis to the everything argument is probably 148 in 2008.

As Sean elluded to, 148 was the last team selected in Atlanta. If that #1 alliance picked someone else, I think you have to really question 148's decision to go with a lap bot.

I think for the prime example of 'Do everything well, not just one thing" arguement would have to be 148's alliance partner, 1114. They were the most dominate team in 2008. They were probably the best hurdler and I think could have been the best herder and lap bot if they wanted to. Just because they just did one thing, doesn't mean that was the only thing they could do.

[thefro526]

Though I agreed with 148's 2008 machine being the antithesis for do-everything machines my belief on the subject is this:

Do what you can with the resources you're given. If you have a large number of resources available (Time, Talent, Manpower, Money etc...) then try to do as many things as you can without spreading your resources too thin. Inversely, if you only have few resources focus on doing one thing, and doing that thing to the best of your ability and then once you have that thing/function/mechanism worked out move your resources onto improving it or adding additional function to your machine.

We, (I), try to follow this second approach on 816. In 2006 and 2007 we learned that trying to do everything half-a**ed was worse that trying to do nothing at all. From now on we always try to focus on building a strong drive-train (most important part of any good machine, IMO), then a good/decent primary mechanism (Our elevator in 2008, our conveyor in 2009, or our kicker in 2010), and then a good secondary mechanism or function (Our multiple auton's in 2008 with robo-coach assist in 08, our autons and Driving Practice in 2009, and our hanging mech this year (which we removed)) This works pretty well for our team and our limited resources, I'd suggest that anyone else in a similar situation look into doing the same... Or Not.

[Chris is me]

As Sean elluded to, 148 was the last team selected in Atlanta. If that #1 alliance picked someone else, I think you have to really question 148's decision to go with a lap bot.

For the sake of the argument, I'm more referring to their regional performance, where their hybrid got them #1 seed at St. Louis and #2-3? seed at Bayou. At Championships their hybrid mode didn't seem to work right, which was key to their success. I doubt they would be the 24th selection if they got 5 or 6 lines every match. I remember reading a post that said going by scouting data they were the second highest scorer in St. Louis, below only 217.