GDC at it again! [Archive]

IndySam

03-02-2010, 00:20

Regarding Spike Relay Module

Are the Spike Relay Modules allowed to control the window motors?
Besides the air compressor what other motors may the Spike control?
Is there a maximum number of Spikes allowed on the robot?

TNX

GDC

Re: Regarding Spike Relay Module
1 - Yes.
2 - Under Rule <R55>, any motor other than the CIM motor and Fisher-Price motor may be controlled by either a relay module or a speed controller.
3 - While there is no rule that explicitly addresses this, by our calculations the maximum number of Spikes that can be contained within the NORMAL CONFIGURATION volume/weight constraints is 883. However, it is noted that the budget limitations of Rule <R22> would limit you to no more than 102 Spikes on a single ROBOT.

sportzkrazzy

03-02-2010, 00:37

:ahh: O no only 102!!!!! but our design calls for 103....

MrForbes

03-02-2010, 00:41

Notice they did not mention anything about all those Spikes being connected to anything....

Eugene Fang

03-02-2010, 00:43

Notice they did not mention anything about all those Spikes being connected to anything....

We plan to use about 40 of them for ballast.

sportzkrazzy

03-02-2010, 00:44

yeah we where going to use them to make weight... at .12 lbs they are really heavy for the price and we need all the weight we can get. Now where did that sarcasm emote go.....

Nick Lawrence

03-02-2010, 00:46

I was planning on building a wedge with ~35 spikes for more loft on the ball.

-Nick

Eugene Fang

03-02-2010, 00:49

I was planning on building a wedge with ~35 spikes for more loft on the ball.

-Nick

Don't pop the ball with all those spikes! :ahh:

Phoenix Spud

03-02-2010, 02:10

Now what about those Vics? And Jags?

fsgond

03-02-2010, 09:42

All motors must be run through victors or jags, minus a very few exceptions.

Daniel_LaFleur

03-02-2010, 09:52

All motors must be run through victors or jags, minus a very few exceptions.

Not quite correct.

All CIM and FP motors must run on victors or Jags. All other FRC legal motors may be run on spikes.

Matt C

03-02-2010, 13:04

Now where did that sarcasm emote go.....

What you need is the SarcMark (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/6995354/Sarcasm-punctuation-mark-aims-to-put-an-end-to-email-confusion.html)!

BrendanB

03-02-2010, 13:06

Wow, part of me wonders how much time they have on their hands these days!?

JesseK

03-02-2010, 13:53

Wow, part of me wonders how much time they have on their hands these days!?

A quick 120 second calculation is all you need to come up with those numbers. The GDC also hasn't taken into account what constitutes a ROBOT. Their numbers are based upon figures that exclude any scheme to put the spikes together. Thus this supposed spike-only robot has no left over money/weight cost for glue, or even a cardboard box. Since that would take too long to get set up on the field (stacking 2 spikes is a pain, let alone 102...), I conjecture a KOP frame + spike-only robot could not pass inspection.

Thus we need to take 1 spike away and use the extra $ for fishing line to tie them all together on a KOP frame. 101 spikes ... time to take stock in IFI!

Vikesrock

03-02-2010, 13:57

Their numbers are based upon figures that exclude any scheme to put the spikes together. Thus this supposed spike-only robot has no left over money/weight cost for glue, or even a cardboard box.

The fastener/adhesive exemption <R23-C> could be used here to find a way to cobble them all together.

BrendanB

03-02-2010, 14:09

A quick 120 second calculation is all you need to come up with those numbers. The GDC also hasn't taken into account what constitutes a ROBOT. Their numbers are based upon figures that exclude any scheme to put the spikes together. Thus this supposed spike-only robot has no left over money/weight cost for glue, or even a cardboard box. Since that would take too long to get set up on the field (stacking 2 spikes is a pain, let alone 102...), I conjecture a KOP frame + spike-only robot could not pass inspection.

Thus we need to take 1 spike away and use the extra $ for fishing line to tie them all together on a KOP frame. 101 spikes ... time to take stock in IFI!
Its more the fact of when asked how many spikes are allowed on the robot, they don't come up with a number for all of the motors and pnuematics, they use the weight of the spikes to determine enough needed to fill 120lbs. :)

GDC member: "Hey guys since it is February and half way through build season, can we start adding some humor in our answers?"
Everyone else: "OH YES!"
;)

Taylor

08-02-2010, 07:44

Here's another (emphasis mine):

2 - While we understand that "hard" is a relative term, we do not define a specific hardness rating (understand that many teams and inspection stations do not have the tools required to measure specific hardness). Hardness is used in the general sense of the word as understood by a reasonably astute observer. A rule of thumb: If I hit you with it and it hurts, then it is "hard."

Peter Matteson

08-02-2010, 09:56

Joe Ross

08-02-2010, 10:10

A rule of thumb: If I hit you with it and it hurts, then it is "hard."

I guess nobody on the GDC has ever been whacked with a pool noodle.

Daniel_LaFleur

08-02-2010, 10:12

I guess nobody on the GDC has ever been whacked with a pool noodle.

Or a piece of surgical tubing :ahh:

MrForbes

08-02-2010, 10:16

I'd take a licking with a pool noodle or surgical tubing over one with PVC pipe or aluminum bar stock, any day!

Daniel_LaFleur

08-02-2010, 10:32

I'd take a licking with a pool noodle or surgical tubing over one with PVC pipe or aluminum bar stock, any day!

Apparently you've never been flailed with surgical tubing. It can take skin off down to the bone (don't ask :ahh: )

Rion Atkinson

08-02-2010, 10:32

I'd take a licking with a pool noodle or surgical tubing over one with PVC pipe or aluminum bar stock, any day!

Actually. I chose the PVC pipe or aluminum bar stock. There is less grip on those, thus easier to rip out of the other persons had. The are also heavier and slower, so it is a longer swig. All make running away or counter attacking easier. :D

My $0.02
-Rion

Cheerleader1073

09-02-2010, 09:55

... it's discussions like these why I just love FIRST :)

Kims Robot

09-02-2010, 10:51

I saw the title of this thread and expected it to be people complaining about the GDC saying "RTFM!!" (where F of course stands for FIRST)...

But instead I was happy to see it was about the GDC actually having a sense of humor... whew!! :)

Although to be semi-technical, I think that the 883 number would go against the definition of ROBOT which includes:
The ROBOT implementation must obviously follow a design approach intended to play the 2010 FRC game (e.g. a box of unassembled parts placed on the FIELD, or a ROBOT designed to play a different game, would not satisfy this definition).

The 102 number has a much more likely chance to comply with the definition of ROBOT :-D

kevin.li.rit

09-02-2010, 11:02

Its more the fact of when asked how many spikes are allowed on the robot, they don't come up with a number for all of the motors and pnuematics, they use the weight of the spikes to determine enough needed to fill 120lbs. :)

GDC member: "Hey guys since it is February and half way through build season, can we start adding some humor in our answers?"
Everyone else: "OH YES!"
;)

I think they use the cost of the spike since it would take 1000 to fill 120lbs (using it's listed weight).

dlavery

10-02-2010, 17:35

I guess nobody on the GDC has ever been whacked with a pool noodle.

You have no idea of the number of things we get whacked with while designing the games...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwLirQS2-o

-dave

.

Foster

10-02-2010, 17:52

You have no idea of the number of things we get whacked with while designing the games...

So I'm starting to rethink that the GDC is the coolest job in the world....

Taylor

10-02-2010, 21:08

Was that a herring?

dlavery

11-02-2010, 01:14

Was that a herring?

No, it was a shrubbery.

.

sportzkrazzy

11-02-2010, 01:26

From roger?

EricH

11-02-2010, 02:38

No, it was a shrubbery.

.
Now the shrubbery is a herring--and we have to cut down the tallest tree in the forest with --Oh, sorry, can't say that word, or the Knights Who Say 'Ni' will become totally helpless.

IndySam

11-02-2010, 08:38

No, it was a shrubbery.

.

don't say that word!

Taylor

15-02-2010, 14:47

Ian Curtis

15-02-2010, 15:04

Fasteners, adhesives, and lubricants do not have to be listed on the BOM. However, you may still want to have your mentors count them all for your own purposes. It gives them something to do. (http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14588)

Apparently mentors don't have enough to do.

I think the GDC should try mentoring a team sometime. It may open their eyes.

**ducks**

I imagine that is in response to "We have plenty of spare mentors for counting screws and rivets, but we'd like to get them started early if that's necessary." which is in the original post. :p

Taylor

15-02-2010, 16:00

I imagine that is in response to "We have plenty of spare mentors for counting screws and rivets, but we'd like to get them started early if that's necessary." which is in the original post. :p

Well, yeah, if you read.

Peter Matteson

18-02-2010, 14:06

Another classic GDC response to a comically asked question:
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14687

GaryVoshol

21-02-2010, 19:02

Another good answer: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14758

Daniel_LaFleur

21-02-2010, 19:10

Another good answer: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14758

Now that was funny.

You can tell it's getting to the end of build season.

PAR_WIG1350

21-02-2010, 20:15

Now that was funny.

You can tell it's getting to the end of build season.

HA HA HA HA awwww...
now I'm sad

Oh well, ~ 2 days left
Good luck!

EricH

21-02-2010, 22:20

Epic!

I wonder which GDC member wrote that one. Might be something Lavery would do...

DonRotolo

21-02-2010, 22:51

You know, that one really WAS funny. :D

nitneylion452

21-02-2010, 23:09

Now the shrubbery is a herring--and we have to cut down the tallest tree in the forest with --Oh, sorry, can't say that word, or the Knights Who Say 'Ni' will become totally helpless.

We are no longer the Knights Who Say "Ni." We are now the Knights Who Say "*insertwhatevertheysayhere*."

Oh Knights Who...until recently said "ni"...

EricH

21-02-2010, 23:12

We are no longer the Knights Who Say "Ni." We are now the Knights Who Say "*insertwhatevertheysayhere*."

Oh Knights Who...until recently said "ni"...
Doesn't matter, they're still helpless because I said *that word which the Knights Who At One Point Said Ni cannot hear*.

nitneylion452

21-02-2010, 23:21

Doesn't matter, they're still helpless because I said *that word which the Knights Who At One Point Said Ni cannot hear*.

But how can we not say it if we don't know what it is?

Jon Stratis

23-02-2010, 13:37

And the GDC is at it again... http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=14758

Given that plywood is a non-homogeneous, non-isotropic material with the strength and bending moment determined, in large part, by the relative orientation of the surviving laminations, it is not at all clear that cutting a dado across the entire height of the material would not severely compromise the structural integrity of the material. The dado reduces the effective thickness of the material by 16.67%. To ensure that the integrity of the modified plywood backing is still sufficient to survive the expected impacts of a typical match, you will need to provide appropriate analytical results to allow us to perform a comprehensive stress-loads analysis prior to having your robot inspected at the competition. As a minimum, we will need the following materials to be submitted for review: a clear definition of the resulting neutral axis along the entire length of the modified plywood material, a Finite Element Analysis (using a NASTRAN-compliant tool or equivalent) of deformation of the plywood backing within 12 inches of the dado cut during a 40-G impact by a 150-pound robot, both analytically- and experimentally-produced predictions of the yield strength of the modified plywood, and a full analysis (using Timoshenko beam theory or equivalent) of the resulting beam stiffness at the moment of impact as compared to the theoretical yield strength. ---- Nah, just kidding. Your solution sounds fine. No problem.

By far my favorite answer of the build season.

Al Skierkiewicz

23-02-2010, 15:07

It makes you wonder how many years they have been waiting for just the right question to be asked so that they could release this answer, doesn't it?

DonRotolo

23-02-2010, 22:34

I can imagine the build season is stressful on the GDC, too.

Now, wouldn't everyone who uses a cRio be a knight who says "NI (http://www.ni.com/)" ??

JesseK

24-02-2010, 10:18

Now, wouldn't everyone who uses a cRio be a knight who says "NI (http://www.ni.com/)" ??

Only if your last name is Knight.

JaneYoung

24-02-2010, 10:24

It makes you wonder how many years they have been waiting for just the right question to be asked so that they could release this answer, doesn't it?

Like sitting ducks, we are.

:)