View Full Version : What Are You Doing During Autonomous Period?
davidthefat
22-02-2010, 22:12
I think we are just going to spin for 15 seconds, compressing air during that time... We cant track the ball and our kicker isnt even accurate, we are just bombing it toward the goal...
We are going to kick our balls, then do something else. Our selector switches select that something else, so it will vary, but there will be no more than 4 of those something elses per position. I would suggest at least getting/starting out of your partners way in case they want to kick balls.
Chris is me
22-02-2010, 22:24
I think we are just going to spin for 15 seconds, compressing air during that time... We cant track the ball and our kicker isnt even accurate, we are just bombing it toward the goal...
You shouldn't need to track the ball. It starts exactly where you put it every match.
You are also allowed to precharge your pneumatics, so you shouldn't need to use auto mode to do that.
What my team WAS going to do in auto was to have several modes with an adjustable 0-15 series of switches for delay. Then we got the kicker working an hour before we had to crate, and we still lack a posession mechanism. So... probably just 3 autos, "kick em forward".
reversed_rocker
22-02-2010, 22:24
we have a vacuum on our robot that makes for great consistency in the autonomous mode. our robot has a photo transistor on the front to detect balls that are in the vacuum, so we just line them up, go straight, grab a ball, kick, and move on to the next one. there are switches on the driver station that tell the robot what zone its in, so it stops after it hits the proper number of balls and raises the kicking mechanism for close shots.
O'Sancheski
22-02-2010, 22:32
we are going to drive up to the bump and turn to get over to the ball return to setup for our strategy
hyperdude
22-02-2010, 22:49
As far as I am aware, our programmer has not done anything for autonomous. I think there's been a few ideas floating around, but now all we're going to be able to do is wait til April 1 to test any of them (our robot is crated up and ready for tomorrow).
umangv620
22-02-2010, 23:55
Position 1:
Move foward, kick. repeat 1 times.
Position 2:
Move foward, kick. repeat 2 times.
Position 3:
Move foward, kick. repeat 3 times.
Thats it. Simple, right? wrong.
Tom Line
23-02-2010, 01:20
I think you might want to stick "aim" in there at some point, but even if you can't aim you should have the ability to at least kick or push 1 ball into the goal since you're free to line everything up in a straight line anyway.
As of right now, our kicker is cocking back to full discharge position and it blindly firing into the stands. This is not safe. refer back to my other posts about safety being for squares: comprised of the 4 staples in safety including Proper training, proper attire, common sense, and protection.
eugenebrooks
23-02-2010, 02:42
I think you might want to stick "aim" in there at some point, but even if you can't aim you should have the ability to at least kick or push 1 ball into the goal since you're free to line everything up in a straight line anyway.
You also need to think about not blocking
the kicks of your alliance partners during
autonomous.
Our autonomous program isn't completely debugged, but we've programmed it so that it should drive toward a ball, stop when our ball detector sensor detects something, aim at the goal with our vision tracking, kick, realign, then loop that depending on what zone we're in. We also sort of programmed encoders to track our position in autonomous mode so we don't go too far (especially if our gyro or something else goes wacky and we end up crossing zones).
Kibaspirit
23-02-2010, 08:44
Our robot goes to one side to find the wall (We have mechanum wheels) then tracks and shoots a ball. It can clear a bump. [:
EricWilliams
23-02-2010, 10:16
We will be doing something fantastic in autonomous! Hopefully. :cool:
As of last night our first routine:
Arms the kicker (We come on the field with air)
Rolls forward at 1/2 speed to the first ball
Kicks towards the goal
Rearms the kicker for teleop
Stops
We also have a end of match routine that "kicks" one last time so that the robot is safe to move by the crew.
Well to be honest, as I type this...we will be hoping that something functions as intended and hasn't caught fire or broken in half!
I had to throw that out there, if half of us are half as tired and have spent half as much time as what I suspect working thru this project, then there are a whole lot of us out there who need a day to rest and recharge!
GOOD LUCK
Mike
Re: What Are You Doing During Autonomous Period?
I'm watching the match, that's what I'm doing.
With luck, the robot will be moving and kicking.
PAR_WIG1350
23-02-2010, 22:22
I was told we are programing auto in Boston. Might get done before then. I don't know.
Radical Pi
24-02-2010, 00:18
At the moment? Nothing. When we can get it working? Kick, drive forward, Kick, drive forward, kick. Our robot is short enough that we probably don't have to worry about getting out of the way
darkangel
24-02-2010, 01:11
We've got the simple drive-kick one, and, as far as I've seen, it's fairly accurate. Not sure if it can score goals (and I probably won't be sure until WPI), but it can get the balls over the bump, no problem.
Tom Bottiglieri
24-02-2010, 01:35
We will be staying out of our teammates' way when they try to kick and not incurring penalties, among other things.
I suggest you all do the same. ;)
ideasrule
24-02-2010, 10:13
We're free to place the balls ourselves??? Until reading this thread, I thought the balls were placed randomly by field management. I got this impression after reading the rules, AND two people I've asked told me the same thing.
Our code can use the camera to track balls, but if we can place the balls ourselves, that capability will be useless. We can just drive forwards until the light sensors come on, kick, and repeat.
JamesCH95
24-02-2010, 10:27
We've got modes where we drive and kick 1, 2, or 3 times, though with how wide our kicker is I think we're going to program in a "shotgun" move where we herd 2 or 3 balls together on our kicker and then blast them all over when we get close to the bump.
What Are You Doing During Autonomous Period?
Praying.
GaryVoshol
24-02-2010, 11:41
We're free to place the balls ourselves??? Until reading this thread, I thought the balls were placed randomly by field management. I got this impression after reading the rules, AND two people I've asked told me the same thing.
Our code can use the camera to track balls, but if we can place the balls ourselves, that capability will be useless. We can just drive forwards until the light sensors come on, kick, and repeat.
I didn't think this was that difficult to understand:<G09> BALL Starting Positions – Prior to the MATCH, each ALLIANCE is provided with six BALLS to be placed on the FIELD. The BALLS must be placed on a STARTING GRID location prior to the MATCH start. When the FIELD is viewed from the ALLIANCE STATION, the BALLS must be placed on the right side of the CENTER LINE, with one BALL in the near ZONE, two BALLS in the MIDFIELD, and three BALLS in the far ZONE. The BALLS must not be in contact with a ROBOT at the start of the MATCH.OK, they could have said "provided with six BALLS which they place on the FIELD." That would have made it a little clearer. But still, if the alliance is provided with the balls, they aren't then taken away from the alliance to be put on the field. "Provided" means that they are in the alliance's possession. And if there was a process for someone else to place the balls, the rules would have specified that process. Such as the numbered location of the tetras in Triple Play, or the randomizer video game in Overdrive.
Exploding Bacon has 6 new programming students this year! Because of this we decided to go for the simple approach of driving straight (with a PID loop) and kicking at the right time in the appropriate direction using encoders and the gyro. So far this has been a pretty effective method!
Even without the encoders and gyro, this can be done with dead reckoning. It goes to show that this is another great game to attempt 100% of robots doing something in autonomous mode!
ideasrule
24-02-2010, 12:32
I didn't think this was that difficult to understand:OK, they could have said "provided with six BALLS which they place on the FIELD." That would have made it a little clearer. But still, if the alliance is provided with the balls, they aren't then taken away from the alliance to be put on the field. "Provided" means that they are in the alliance's possession. And if there was a process for someone else to place the balls, the rules would have specified that process. Such as the numbered location of the tetras in Triple Play, or the randomizer video game in Overdrive.
In my defense, I was simplifying things a little in my last post. I initially thought the alliance was allowed to place the balls themselves, but wasn't completely sure, so I asked two other people. They were both $@#$@#$@#$@# sure that I was wrong, so I just believed them without re-checking the rules.
A big "oops" on my part. I'll have to rethink our autonomous strategy.
Kicking all the balls that are in our zone into the goal.
thefro526
24-02-2010, 13:53
Crying - Because we don't have an autonomous mode.
Or
Yelling - Because our programmer didn't make an autonomous mode.
It's 50/50 either way.
We are just going forward until we detect a ball and then kick it. We are just lining the balls up in a row to make a whole lot easier.
Egg 3141592654
26-02-2010, 11:09
We deploy, because no amount of pre-charged tank pressure can get that kicker going in enough time to do much
thefro526
26-02-2010, 11:12
We deploy, because no amount of pre-charged tank pressure can get that kicker going in enough time to do much
What do you mean about "No amount of Pre-Charged Tank Pressure"?
I'm not trying to challenge your post or anything, but you can completely charge your pneumatic system before you walk on the field. That's what we're going to do and I know quite a few teams do this as well.
drtysteve384
26-02-2010, 12:51
We were going to locate the ball with our camera and then use our kicker to kick it in to the goal... but only if we were in the scoring zone...if not i think we would just kick them across the field...
Stupid rookie question....we haven't programmed anything for auto. period. Will that actually cost us? Second dumb question...can we program something for auto. period once we're at the competition?
Our bot is designed to hop the bump, through the tunnel and push ball/play defense. Basically a simple design to run consistently each round without mishaps
Y'all's thoughts?:ahh:
Stupid rookie question....we haven't programmed anything for auto. period. Will that actually cost us? Second dumb question...can we program something for auto. period once we're at the competition?
Our bot is designed to hop the bump, through the tunnel and push ball/play defense. Basically a simple design to run consistently each round without mishaps
Y'all's thoughts?:ahh:
No need to panic. :]
The only direct consequence of not having done an autonomous mode is that whatever zone you end up starting in will still have all of the initial balls there at the end of autonomous. This is a significant disadvantage if you're starting in the far zone (relative to your own goals) as that will leave three balls sitting in the near vicinity of one of your opponents goals at the start of teleoperated mode, but it's not likely to be the end of the world. It may make you slightly less desirable at alliance selection time on Saturday if you still don't have one and other teams do, but there are a lot of other variables in that decision.
You can program an autonomous mode on-site at the competition (or now, for that matter, although testing may have to wait a bit). If you need help and ask around at competition, you can almost certainly find a team that will help you.
GaryVoshol
26-02-2010, 15:35
Stupid rookie question....we haven't programmed anything for auto. period. Will that actually cost us?Maybe a little. Work with your alliance partners. Ask them where they want you to set up so you are out of their way.
Second dumb question...can we program something for auto. period once we're at the competition?Absolutely. Get some help on Thursday. There are plenty of good teams on the regional list. The best ones will be able to teach you how to program something for auton, not just do it for you.
byteit101
26-02-2010, 15:37
We were going to locate the ball with our camera and then use our kicker to kick it in to the goal... but only if we were in the scoring zone...if not i think we would just kick them across the field...
can your camera find the ball now? I would be interested in the code, as we are having some trouble locating the ball
You shouldn't need to track the ball. It starts exactly where you put it every match.
You are also allowed to precharge your pneumatics, so you shouldn't need to use auto mode to do that.
What my team WAS going to do in auto was to have several modes with an adjustable 0-15 series of switches for delay. Then we got the kicker working an hour before we had to crate, and we still lack a posession mechanism. So... probably just 3 autos, "kick em forward".
Rule please?
Radical Pi
26-02-2010, 17:59
Rule please?
<G09> BALL Starting Positions – Prior to the MATCH, each ALLIANCE is provided with six BALLS to be placed on the FIELD.
Lots of people have been confused on this one. It says the ALLIANCE places the balls
<R75> *snip*The compressor may be mounted on the ROBOT, or it may be left off the ROBOT and used to pre-charge compressed air in the storage tanks prior to bringing the ROBOT onto the FIELD. Off-board compressors must be controlled and powered by the ROBOT.
Basically, you can use another compressor as long as it is powered and controlled by the robot while off the field
Crying - Because we don't have an autonomous mode.
Or
Yelling - Because our programmer didn't make an autonomous mode.
It's 50/50 either way.
Or he going to be proud because I have an untested autonomous mode that should work in two out of three positions
Chris is me
27-02-2010, 13:54
<R75> *snip*The compressor may be mounted on the ROBOT, or it may be left off the ROBOT and used to pre-charge compressed air in the storage tanks prior to bringing the ROBOT onto the FIELD. Off-board compressors must be controlled and powered by the ROBOT.
Basically, you can use another compressor as long as it is powered and controlled by the robot while off the field
It was also my understanding that there is no rule requiring your pneumatic system to begin a match at 0 PSI, even if you have an onboard compressor... I'll find the rule in a minute.
Vikesrock
27-02-2010, 23:42
It was also my understanding that there is no rule requiring your pneumatic system to begin a match at 0 PSI, even if you have an onboard compressor... I'll find the rule in a minute.
<R01-B> allows for 120 PSI stored at the start of the match in up to 4 Clippard tanks.
<R01> Energy used by FRC ROBOTS, (i.e., stored at the start of a MATCH), shall come only from the following sources:
A. Electrical energy derived from the onboard 12V battery (see Rule <R40> for specifications and further details).
B. Compressed air stored in the pneumatic system, stored at a maximum pressure of 120 PSI in no more than four Clippard Instruments tanks. Extraneous lengths of pneumatic tubing shall not be used to increase the storage capacity of the air storage system.
C. A change in the altitude of the ROBOT center of gravity.
D. Storage achieved by deformation of ROBOT parts.
Emphasis mine
Egg 3141592654
28-02-2010, 13:04
What do you mean about "No amount of Pre-Charged Tank Pressure"?
I'm not trying to challenge your post or anything, but you can completely charge your pneumatic system before you walk on the field. That's what we're going to do and I know quite a few teams do this as well.
What i mean is that our kicker is a long range kicker, and takes FOREVER to set up (Piston is too small), but once it is set, it takes a few seconds to reset after that.
If all goes well (chiefly our programmer figuring out how to get what he wants out of the encoders - and if not I guess he'll dead reckon using time) we should have about 16 different autonomous options, selectable with a rotating potentiometer dial (a clicking one would have been nice, but pre-match we'll just have to tether the Classmate to the robot and make sure we stop the dial at the appropriate number). Options such as: get out of our partners' way in the first 5 seconds, wait the next 5 seconds, and flick the ball over the hump/into the goal in the last 5 seconds, and various combinations thereof.
Hope that it doesn't mysteriously stop working in the eliminations and that it doesn't stop us from moving at all.
...our programmer figuring out how to get what he wants out of the encoders - and if not I guess he'll dead reckon using time...
If he wants help with the encoders, tell him to ask. There are many people here who would gladly help him.
As for that potentiometer thing, you can have dashboard indicators on your Classmate during Disabled, and see it there.
onecoolc
03-03-2010, 15:12
...I think we're going to program in a "shotgun" move where we herd 2 or 3 balls together on our kicker and then blast them all over when we get close to the bump.
Wait, wouldn't that be considered multiple balls in possesion? As in bad?
<G43> ROBOT BALL POSSESSION - ROBOTS may POSSESS only one BALL at a time. Violation: PENALTY.
Because it looks like that from the first part of the defintion for Possesion:
POSSESSION: Controlling the position and movement of a BALL...
Or if you don't have a suction/roller mechanism, would that be considered okay? (As of the second part of the defintion for Possesion)
...a BALL shall be considered in POSSESSION if, as the ROBOT moves or changes orientation (e.g. backs up or spins in place), the BALL remains in approximately the same position relative to the ROBOT.
Tom Bottiglieri
03-03-2010, 15:26
We are just going forward until we detect a ball and then kick it. We are just lining the balls up in a row to make a whole lot easier.
How are you detecting a ball?
nikeairmancurry
03-03-2010, 16:06
After a few hours of practice, with trial and error, we have come up with a quick efficient method of set-up, drive forward until ball is detected, repeat twice if in the third zone, and so on in the other two zones. In each zone the kicker can be tension differently for a long third zone shot, to an easy kick shot. Lets hope this works just as well at competition, as it has at home.
Oh if your wondering the method for detection, its a secret for the moment. Until we atleast put up some pictures or video.. ^_^
Our robot will try to kick 1-3 balls depending on switches. But technically right now autonomous causes the cRIO to crash. Our Autonomous (like many others I'm sure) is a giant if, elseif and switch-based 353 line state machine. I personally would have rather had it been a series of while loops that go from one to the next, but experience shows the cRIO would crap its self. (And I didn't write autonomous, actually I didn't write anything this year - jus managed made me sadfaced)
~DtD
Robototes2412
03-03-2010, 17:51
i hooked up a switch to the kicker, the robot goes forward until the switch is hit and then kicks instantly, either a soft or hard kick depending on how big the radius of the target is
i hooked up a switch to the kicker, the robot goes forward until the switch is hit and then kicks instantly, either a soft or hard kick depending on how big the radius of the target is
i dont understand the reasoning behind this, the balls are all gonna have the same radius, mostly around the same size
Nathan Streeter
03-03-2010, 18:01
On behalf of Mechanical MAYHEM (1519), I'd like to wish all the FRC team best of luck with their autonomous modes!
We will be trying to score the soccer balls in our zone during auto. We already have our far-zone auto mode programmed and tested to score all three balls into our goal. We'll be trying to make programs to score from the mid and near zones, also. We're currently exploring the possibilities of scoring zones from multiple zones in the same auto; however, we'll see what's feasible with testing.
A Thread About Our Auto:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83733
Our Auto Video:
http://www.mechanicalmayhem.org/teamvideos.asp
nikeairmancurry
03-03-2010, 18:11
i dont understand the reasoning behind this, the balls are all gonna have the same radius, mostly around the same size
Im assuming he means the radius of the FIRST target above the goal..
Dave Scheck
03-03-2010, 18:18
I'm curious as to how teams are handling the fact that the balls on the left side overlap with the right side of the goal by only a couple inches. Shots will need to be dead accurate unless corrective aiming is done.
nikeairmancurry
03-03-2010, 18:28
I'm curious as to how teams are handling the fact that the balls on the left side overlap with the right side of the goal by only a couple inches. Shots will need to be dead accurate unless corrective aiming is done.
I don't it is as big as an issue as it may seem. From our trials, you can avoid this issue. I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot of teams who score from the left side very easily. The center and right side will be the sides to watch.
billbo911
03-03-2010, 18:47
We will have four options, one for each zone plus a surprise second option for zone 1.
Zone 1.1: Roll forward and kick ball into goal then back off.
Zone 1.2: surprise!
Zone 2: Roll forward to ball, align to target using camera, kick ball into goal, realign, repeat.
Zone 3: Slowly roll forward kicking each ball toward goal, stop after third ball. Hopefully one or more will go in.
If you want to see what the surprise is, search for our dancing robot post.:D
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