A FIRST Encouter with Physics [Archive]

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StevenB

20-03-2010, 17:25

I've begun working on a document entitled "A FIRST Encounter with Physics". The idea is to present a basic introduction to some of the physics concepts we most frequently deal with in FRC, so that students who haven't taken physics yet can participate in the design process at a deeper level.
I've observed that most students get stuck in the realm of "I think xyz would work...", often because they lack to tools to move on to "I know xyz would work...". I've seen teams have debates about whether the window motor is strong enough to drive their mechanism, rather than doing the calculations and knowing for sure. This project is an attempt to fix that.

The attached document is an early revision, and I'm posting it now to show you a small sample and to get your feedback. I welcome comments and suggestions on what I've written so far, as well as particular concepts and applications that would be good to add.
If you're interested in helping, whether writing, creating diagrams and illustrations, editing, or anything else, let me know - I'd love to have this be a community effort.

Edit: More current version of the document here (http://botsnlinux.net/firstphysics.php)

,4lex S.

20-03-2010, 18:47

I have been wanting to get something like this done for a while now. Thanks for taking the initiative. I am willing to write and/or do graphics for you.

andy174drive

20-03-2010, 19:24

Ian Curtis

20-03-2010, 19:31

This is super cool!

It might be worth mentioning that stalled means that the output shaft is not spinning. It is often the little stuff that trips us up.

It is also a little confusing to have the diagram about the CIM in the middle of an example problem using the FP. Why not use the same motor in 2.1 and 2.2?

Other than those minor nitpicks, it's much more readable than the physics textbooks I put up with in Physics I!

nighterfighter

20-03-2010, 19:40

This is awesome, thanks for doing this!

I won't be taking physics (officially) until next year, (been reading some online once a week, etc.) and this is great!

Thanks for doing this!

pfreivald

20-03-2010, 20:06

I'm a physics teacher, and I am for the first time (thanks to the efforts of our team) teaching an "Introduction to Robotics" course next year in the high school, tied to the efforts of Team 1551. This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to find online somewhere.

Vocabulary is *key* when writing a textbook that you want to be transparent to students. I suggest that you (literally) give the chapters to a convenient seventh or eighth grader who is rather average in their overall science/technology background, and ask them to highlight/ask about any words they do not know. Make a glossary including those words, plus any others you might think prudent (like 'stall' in the concept of a motor).

If the intent is to publish this as a .pdf file, then make all vocabulary works linkable to the glossary.

-----------

And on a side note, when not hurriedly typing forum posts before my dinner gets cold, I'm pretty good with English. It was one of my minors in college, and I have some published work floating around out there. I would be more than happy to help edit anything you do.

...that said, I do *not* have time to do raw creation stuff. As FIRST winds down to summer levels, beekeeping picks up, and I'm just as busy as ever! (Oh, and did I mention that I have a brand new class to create from scratch by September, in my nonexistent free time? :D )

But anyway, I pledge my services as an editor to this enterprise.

Good luck, and thank you so much for doing it. An absolutely fantastic idea.

Patrick

glennzo

20-03-2010, 20:08

Excellent idea and a very nice start..

kevin.li.rit

20-03-2010, 22:54

I'd start off with simple machines first before describing gear ratios. Mechanical Advantage is an important concept. I also hope you're not going to leave out all the fun stuff we do with Electricity in FIRST.

MagiChau

20-03-2010, 23:06

Thanks for spending time on this. I am not going to take physics until my Junior year so this helps me :D

StevenB

21-03-2010, 23:51

Right now I am doing some extra credit for my physics class regarding the physics of our robot's systems, I could post it when I'm done if you wanted to use an example or see any points having to do with things like trajectory, spring forces and the like. That would be great!

I'd start off with simple machines first before describing gear ratios. Mechanical Advantage is an important concept. I also hope you're not going to leave out all the fun stuff we do with Electricity in FIRST.
What "fun stuff" did you have in mind? Voltage drops, wire gauges, and so on?

kevin.li.rit

22-03-2010, 00:00

That would be great!

What "fun stuff" did you have in mind? Voltage drops, wire gauges, and so on?

Yeah Voltage, current, resistance, piezoelectric circuits, sensors, magnets, motors, other sensors, transistors, inductors capacitors, batteries, diodes, resistors, pots, ... etc..

rickross

30-03-2010, 06:46

Vocabulary is *key* when writing a textbook that you want to be transparent to students. I suggest that you (literally) give the chapters to a convenient seventh or eighth grader who is rather average in their overall science/technology background, and ask them to highlight/ask about any words they do not know. Make a glossary including those words, plus any others you might think prudent (like 'stall' in the concept of a motor).

If the intent is to publish this as a .pdf file, then make all vocabulary works linkable to the glossary.

Hi Patrick, I LOVE the idea of a glossary for the many terms we use in FIRST and robotics. We're planning to add a "glossary" module to the OSQA online question-and-answer system we're building that powers RoboFAQs.com (http://robofaqs.com), so it would be excellent to have your input and involvement when you make some progress organizing the terms and definitions. Good luck!

Rick

scawsome

30-03-2010, 15:31

I love the idea of this! If you want, I finished AP Physics and I can describe in detail how to predict projectlie motion (for soccer balls etc.) and several other physical systems (I also plan on majoring in physics in college too). So,I would love to pass on my knowledge with the first community and write. Just tell me what to write about and I will do it! Please talk to me sometime!

Evert Timberg

30-03-2010, 17:49

This is great! Having one document with everything a team needs to teach students about the physics behind their robots will lead to a better competition. At my old highschool (where I now mentor) the physics teacher used to run a robotics team back when Canada had it's own "Canada First" competition. They weren't a strong team technically and couldn't fabricate a lot of the parts but they were able to design robots using simple physics that won competitions.

pfreivald

30-03-2010, 18:01

Hi Patrick, I LOVE the idea of a glossary for the many terms we use in FIRST and robotics. We're planning to add a "glossary" module to the OSQA online question-and-answer system we're building that powers RoboFAQs.com (http://robofaqs.com), so it would be excellent to have your input and involvement when you make some progress organizing the terms and definitions. Good luck!

Rick

Oh, was I volunteering to organize terms and definitions? :eek:

I really, really wasn't. My background is in particle physics and in English literature (as well as beekeeping and tabletop wargames, but I don't think those count). I generally find myself barely qualified to talk to engineers, much less run a FIRST team.

I *am* volunteering to help proofread, edit, make suggestions, and so forth, including identify terms that should be defined when I read the document -- but I am probably the wrong choice (read: definitely the wrong choice) to actually organize terms and definitions out of whole cloth.

Weird Al/ Tony

03-04-2010, 11:04

well I kinda get it but it is slightly confuzing. you should explain everything as if you where teaching a 4 year old. Spell out every word (dont use the v=volts, t=torque till later) the equations should be broken down. even when you describe newtons, dont be afraid to over babyfi it. the simpler and the easier to read the better. when you get further on in the book like 10 pages at least, then start abbreviating. and also add a chart with all abbreviations you can think of. the chart would do good on the first page right after the contents. This way readers will have a chance to read it before they start the actual gear ratio and motor stuff.
for example:a=acceleration(definition)
a/c=alternating current (current found in your house outlets)
v=volts

and so on. (only use this part for abbreviations you will be using or that readers may encounter.)
and as for the breaking down of the equations put stuff like
EX: here the X indicates the cross product (small note on what cross product is) of the two vectors(Force and radius)
EX2: the length of the lever "ie:the gear" is in fact the radius of the gear. this radius = 2centimeters/2 =1cm

(and describe why the 2 cm is divided by two)
then
EX3: (keep the picture of the problem you are working with, with the equation thing. I got confuzed :confused: when the big gear is right there, I thought we had started talking about that) and also put F=torgue/radius.

Either way it will be easier to understand for us rookies.:)

Siri

03-04-2010, 13:39

Great start! I also (supporting what everyone else has said) recommend a quick summary section at the end of every chapter or so. For instance Chapter 1's could say: F=ma, T=r x F (and/or T=r.F_(perpendicular), depending on your exact target audience), T_out=T_in(driven/driving) with a note that says if small drive big: slower, more torque. If big drives small, faster but less torque.

It's probably too early in the lesson to do this and it'd take some more description, but I'd love to see a few integrated design examples at some point. i.e. back up a step from "we have a kicker winch that needs to do this" to "we want to fire such and such rotating kicker at v velocity" It'd only take a few, but I think getting kids thinking about design intent might be really helpful. Also, this is a minor detail, but I know my students would probably concentrate on it better/like it more if I had actual robot photo examples to help put with a "you really can do awesome stuff if you know this" perspective.

I'd be happy to write some/proofread for this project. I actually did a (pretty simple) physics in robotics class for our team's pre-season last year: kinematics, friction, rotational motion, CG, and simple machines/MA. I'd recommend especially digging into (wheel) friction and maybe projectile motion.

kevinhorn

27-05-2010, 22:22

I appreciate the Motor torque example as this is one of the perennial problems that a first team faces. Using SI units is a good thing. Creating clear definitions each put in a separate box helps with readability. Sometimes including an equation in the box is helpful for quick reference while reading an example. It is good to note that the motor must produce a lifting force not equal to but greater that the load in order to lift the load in a timely manner.

Ratios are another simple but important item. You covered speed vs torque but surprisingly many students do not know how to calculate the max speed of a drive with a CIM - Tough box even data sheets in front of them.

RoboMom

28-05-2010, 12:45

StevenB

03-06-2010, 19:54

Andrew Schreiber

04-06-2010, 10:56

Here's an updated version. I've added a glossary and index, and tried to clarify and expand some of the writing. It's far from perfect, though, so keep the comments coming! Also, I realize this version doesn't address everyone's comments - I'm not ignoring them, I just don't have infinite time. ;)

Moderators - I can't seem to edit my original post and update the document. Is there a way to do that?

Figure 5 and Equation 5 are getting mixed up. The link on page 7 to Figure 5 directs to Equation 5.

Figure 2 in Section 1.2.3 really should just show the radius instead of the diameter. (More like Figure 3.)

There is also a reference to Figure 5 when talking about the motor curves.
</nitpicking>*

Very helpful stuff. The illustrations are well done too. I really appreciate all the effort you are putting into this. Thank You!

*I am assuming this was done in LaTeX and the error was just a typo.

J93Wagner

04-06-2010, 12:26

I think your document should have <epic> and </epic> at the start and the end, becuase that is what it is.

What you had made a lot of sense and was well explained. The only thing I see missing is content, and some graphics and examples to help explain your concepts.

Cheerleader1073

06-06-2010, 16:39

Wonderful work so far! Will your text be posted on 1519's website upon completion? This will be very helpful in introducing the younger new team members to understand and be able to work with some of the concepts we use while they haven't taken physics, robotics, or engineering intro courses in high school yet.

Thank you!

jhouser

13-06-2010, 15:32

This stuff is awesome! There is a ton of potential for including robotics into the regular high school curriculum! I understand all the standardized tests (at least in California) really have the teachers strapped to a specific lesson plans. I really believe introducing this sort of real-world application would increase interest as well as retention.
Nice job!

StevenB

25-06-2010, 13:48

Thanks for all of the positive comments! That really helps my motivation to keep working on it. :) Thanks also for the comments, criticisms, and nitpicks.

Figure 5 and Equation 5 are getting mixed up. The link on page 7 to Figure 5 directs to Equation 5.</nitpicking>*

*I am assuming this was done in LaTeX and the error was just a typo.
I'm using LyX, which is essentially a front end for LaTeX. I checked, and it appears that what you're seeing is not really a typo - it's an artifact of my limited LaTeX knowlege. What is happening is that the "Figure 5" link is actually pointing to the Figure 5 caption, rather than pointing to the top of the figure. My PDF viewer (and presumably yours, too) jumps so that the link target is at the top of the page. This makes good sense for sections, but it's bad for figures. In this case, it just happens that Equation 5 is right in the middle of the page below Figure 5. I'm sure a LaTeX wizard would know how to fix it...

Wonderful work so far! Will your text be posted on 1519's website upon completion?
I'll have to ask 1519's webmaster if they'd like to do that... *shouts across the house*. Actually, I'm putting it under a Creative Commons license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/), which will allow anyone to distribute it as they wish.

I've created a project on FIRST Forge (http://firstforge.wpi.edu/sf/projects/firstphysics) for this document. For those of you interested in writing, editing, doing graphics or other things, please sign up for an account and check out the project files from the subversion repository. I'll put up more details about contributing on the project wiki page.

The latest and greatest versions of the document are available at http://botsnlinux.net/firstphysics. The top document in the list is the latest version, the files below are older revisions. I'll just warn you that right now I'm in the process of writing some new sections and it looks pretty rough in spots.

Ether

25-06-2010, 23:44

I've created a project on FIRST Forge for this document. For those of you interested in writing, editing, doing graphics or other things, please sign up for an account and check out the project files from the subversion repository. I'll put up more details about contributing on the project wiki page.

Just to be clear... are you asking that all further discussion of the document's contents be moved from this thread to the Forge web page? Or do you welcome reviewers to continue discussing and making constructive suggestions here?

~

StevenB

26-06-2010, 13:38

Just to be clear... are you asking that all further discussion of the document's contents be moved from this thread to the Forge web page? Or do you welcome reviewers to continue discussing and making constructive suggestions here?

If anyone has comments or ideas, posting here or sending me a PM is fine. I realize some people may not want to sign up for yet another account on yet another site.
For anyone who wants to help edit the document itself, registering on FIRST Forge will be the most effective way to do that. I hope that clarifies things.

StevenB

11-05-2011, 22:39

I know I'm reviving an old thread here, but summer vacation has finally given me the time to do some more work.
The most recent version of the document is available at http://www.botsnlinux.net/firstphysics.php.