anyone have any ideas about next years game?

[davidthefat]

So design it with 6 legs. You'll always have 3 point contact with the floor and thus no self balancing algorithms required ... well, no more than a wheeled robot anyways ;)

thats $$$$ 1 servo is like $15 rounded up, and you need 3 for each leg, so $45 per leg, then 6 legs = $270 JUST on servos

[biojae]

thats $$$$ 1 servo is like $15 rounded up, and you need 3 for each leg, so $45 per leg, then 6 legs = $270 JUST on servos

I don't think that 18 rc servos would move a 120 lb robot very far.

But, if you were to use cims (or FPs) in a closed loop positioning control, then you would have much more powerful servos.

(And it would be a reason to allow us more more motors on the bot (and drain the battery really fast))

[yarden.saa]

two stories field. when there is a ramp between them that the robot can drive between the stories easily. At the upper floor there will be 3 points that the robot can fall to the the other story. these points gonna cchange at each field that it will be "randomly". the purpose is take soccer balls to the holes at the second story. there is not specific hole to specific alliance. the score will be decided manually.

[progal]

It'd be cool to involve human sports into robot sports

Whatever a human can do, a robot can do. Am I right? :p

[yarden.saa]

I'd like to put my history teacher in the center of the field and then we will see who is the boss. I hate history and I have test next week.

[dag0620]

It'd be cool to involve human sports into robot sports

Whatever a human can do, a robot can do. Am I right? :p

And sometimes the other way,

Like at WIWI this year, were going to do a mini competion at lunch where Instead of Robots playing breakaway, we have humans on all fours.

[progal]

And sometimes the other way,

Like at WIWI this year, were going to do a mini competion at lunch where Instead of Robots playing breakaway, we have humans on all fours.

Haha, I'm already imagining it. Seems very interesting

[Bjenks548]

And sometimes the other way,

Like at WIWI this year, were going to do a mini competion at lunch where Instead of Robots playing breakaway, we have humans on all fours.

For strategy purposes, team 548's drivers, coaches, human players, and other members went to pier frog durring build season. There we played full 2:15 matches against 503 on their full field for strategy purposes. We had tons of fun and found some crazy strategies. Including the deflecter idea when one of the frog force guys who must have been around 6 foot 6 was playing against our coach who is around 5 foot 5. It was really fun to play with breakaway with people and we got some good strategies out of it.

[davidthefat]

I don't think that 18 rc servos would move a 120 lb robot very far.

But, if you were to use cims (or FPs) in a closed loop positioning control, then you would have much more powerful servos.

(And it would be a reason to allow us more more motors on the bot (and drain the battery really fast))

:ahh: :o Forgot about the weight... CIMs cost more though

[electron]

I was able to talk to Steve Cremer, a regional director for FIRST this weekend at MIT, and he said "I think I am authorized to tell you this, but Bill told us all this week that the game for next year would include water elements of some kind."
(not totally a direct quote, but its as accurate as I can remember it)
Now, I don't think he was authorized to tell me this, but still.. a water game!! :yikes: :D

(and no, I am not joking, and I do not think Mr. Cremer was either.)

[apalrd]

I don't think as many motors as you think (18) are necessary.

I see it being done with as few as 4:

You have 3 points of contact with the ground at all times. 6 legs.

You would raise 3 legs, move them forward, drop them, raise the other three, and while moving them forward, move the 3 down back.

2 joints per leg, but there are really 2 sets of 3 that move together, so at least 4 joints that are independently controlled.

I don't see you being able to turn with only 4, so I propose 6 + pneumatics:
Raise/lower with pneumatics. Move each with a motor (CIM or FP). The legs are either up or down, but you can vary the forward movement of each leg to turn in an arc.

[davidthefat]

I don't think as many motors as you think (18) are necessary.

I see it being done with as few as 4:

You have 3 points of contact with the ground at all times. 6 legs.

You would raise 3 legs, move them forward, drop them, raise the other three, and while moving them forward, move the 3 down back.

2 joints per leg, but there are really 2 sets of 3 that move together, so at least 4 joints that are independently controlled.

I don't see you being able to turn with only 4, so I propose 6 + pneumatics:
Raise/lower with pneumatics. Move each with a motor (CIM or FP). The legs are either up or down, but you can vary the forward movement of each leg to turn in an arc.

1 leg is the bare minimum, but you need MIT status skills to pull that off, well the easiest is the 6 legged, then 4 then 3, then 2 then 1, thats what I would assume the order is

[EricH]

I was able to talk to Steve Cremer, a regional director for FIRST this weekend at MIT, and he said "I think I am authorized to tell you this, but Bill told us all this week that the game for next year would include water elements of some kind."
(not totally a direct quote, but its as accurate as I can remember it)
Now, I don't think he was authorized to tell me this, but still.. a water game!! :yikes: :D

(and no, I am not joking, and I do not think Mr. Cremer was either.)If anybody knows something, they aren't telling. If they are telling, they don't know anything (or if they do, they shortly will not). Not only that, but "water game" is the oldest joke in the book. If you really think that they're not joking, then you've been fooled pretty badly.

[electron]

If anybody knows something, they aren't telling. If they are telling, they don't know anything (or if they do, they shortly will not). Not only that, but "water game" is the oldest joke in the book. If you really think that they're not joking, then you've been fooled pretty badly.

I'm not saying that isn't a possibility, just saying what he told me. :rolleyes:

[davidthefat]

If anybody knows something, they aren't telling. If they are telling, they don't know anything (or if they do, they shortly will not). Not only that, but "water game" is the oldest joke in the book. If you really think that they're not joking, then you've been fooled pretty badly.

Watch, one day it will be a water game and YOU will be punked... but seriously I doubt its ever going to be a water game, that would force every team to water proof the robot, which will hinder the inspection, and they will never do that. and there are potential safely issues with a pool and electricity, unless they are using distilled water every game...

[electron]

and there are potential safely issues with a pool and electricity, unless they are using distilled water every game...

actually, he specifically said that it would be in a pool, but would more be like "shoot water into this goal, or fill this container, etc"

[EricH]

Either way, not gonna be a water game. See the 101 other threads on water games for a reason. (And there's a very good reason not to in that there are already a couple...)

[hedgehoglover]

I think that a game like capture the flag would be a really neat idea. Maybe the alliances could choose the location and set up predetermined obstacles. This would require a lot more strategy and be much more interactive.

[davidthefat]

I think that a game like capture the flag would be a really neat idea. Maybe the alliances could choose the location and set up predetermined obstacles. This would require a lot more strategy and be much more interactive.

or a super duper crazy AI... :D ::rtm:: You see my reference there? but how would you "capture" the flag? Literally grab it? then how would teh other team regain the said flag?

[apalrd]

You could literally grab it, and have a pushing battle back to score it, or something like that. I can see extreme speed and extreme pushing power being key, to push through the defenders and then race to score it.

You could have multiple flags, on each side, with each team having a zone, and the more flags you get the better. There would be defense to prevent flags from being achieved, offense to get the flags, and maybe even a little stealing already scored flags and bringing them back where they belong.

What would the flags be? How about a ring made of small-diameter PVC and 4 elbows, spiked onto a post. You could even have different ones of different values, the toughest and largest prizes there are fewest of (and are the hardest, most guarded).

Field and play:
"your flag" means the flags you are guarding and they are trying to score.
"their flag" means the flags they are guarding and you are trying to score.
standard size field. Alliance wall has box, 18" tall by 24" deep across the entire width of the field. On the top there are pegs where the flags you are guarding and the opposing alliance is trying to get are. On the wall there are pegs for you to score. 9' out there is a line. There are 12 flags and 12 flag holders. No more then 2 of their flags scored per peg. There be no more than two of your robots (defense on your flags or scoring their flags) and one of their robots (attempting to capture your flags) in that zone 9' from the end of the field. Anyone can be in the middle zone. At the start of the match, each robot starts touching the box in their home zone. At the center of the field, there is a dividing line where one bonus flag exists. It is a different color. It starts exactly in the center of the field. It is owned by nobody at the start.

[PAR_WIG1350]

when building walking robots, 6 legs is over-all the easiest, but you still need to keep the left and right synchronized. the simplest to program have 8 or more legs since they are stable and their legs don't need to be synchronized.

Only 2 motors are needed to build walking robots with six or more legs, one for each side, mechanical linkages take care of the rest. If you use less than six legs, additional balancing motors are needed.

[Robert Cawthon]

I don't think that 18 rc servos would move a 120 lb robot very far.

But, if you were to use cims (or FPs) in a closed loop positioning control, then you would have much more powerful servos.

(And it would be a reason to allow us more more motors on the bot (and drain the battery really fast))

Just do the whole things with pneumatics. It would make it so much simpler.

[Bjenks548]

I have no idea on what the game will be, but it would be crazy to have a game piece with a movable cg. Like the 2007 pool tubes with 1/3 of it filled with little steel balls. It would be crazy to try to control an object like that durring collisions and just manipulating it.

[GaryVoshol]

I was able to talk to Steve Cremer, a regional director for FIRST this weekend at MIT, and he said "I think I am authorized to tell you this, but Bill told us all this week that the game for next year would include water elements of some kind." We've already had a game with water elements in it - Rack and Roll. And for the last 4 years, we've used pool noodles. I wouldn't read too much into the words "water elements". And a red herring is a water element, is it not?

[NickE]

I don't think as many motors as you think (18) are necessary.

I see it being done with as few as 4:
This (http://www.mondospider.com/gallery.php?tab=videos) giant spider is powered with two motors.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Just do the whole things with pneumatics. It would make it so much simpler.
Just out of curiosity, how would you accomplish this?
Rotary actuators? How many cylinders per leg?
It just sounds really heavy. <not that it's easy to make a light weight walking drive train>

[dag0620]

For me, I just want the game to include a King of the Hill element. I don't care how its portrayed, or done, I just want it to be there.

[bam-bam]

I'd like to put my history teacher in the center of the field and then we will see who is the boss. I hate history and I have test next week.

Erm... I'm sorry?:confused:

Anyhoo, think about instead a game where you have to hold a ball/game piece of some kind and having to hold onto it for the longest time in the match.



But that won't really work...:(

[hg273]

How about "shooting" laser pointers at a target on the opponents robot?

I feel like this would go against the GDCs commitment towards making the game more audience friendly. Breakaway was a great game for getting people who had never seen a FIRST competition up to speed. This was not the case with Lunacy.

I predict we'll see a return of the interchangeable bumpers, as well as another game with spherical objects.

As much as a Civil War game would be great, FIRST probably does not want to promote warfare.

[theprgramerdude]

What if they boosted the power the dist. board can handle, and gave us two battery's in serial for 24v monsters? I think I would smell a racing/speed based game.

[Radical Pi]

What if they boosted the power the dist. board can handle, and gave us two battery's in serial for 24v monsters? I think I would smell a racing/speed based game.

They would never do a repeat Overdrive within 3 years of the original

[The_Rail_Tracer]

Most likely something like this: How to cap off an oil leak thats 5000 feet under the ocean OR, how to clean oil up quickly and efficiently.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Anyhoo, think about instead a game where you have to hold a ball/game piece of some kind and having to hold onto it for the longest time in the match.



But that won't really work...:(

it's not that crazy, in FIRST, this often takes the form of "king of the hill" games.
it was used in '03 and in that game with the 'puck'

[Andrew Schreiber]

I have some questions about next year's Jello game.

What is the coefficient of static friction between the required tires made of waffles and the Jello?

May we use Ego Mini Waffles instead of the full size ones provided in the KOP?

What is the depth of the Jello?

Will touching the material supporting the Jello be an automatic DQ?

Where can we purchase a second Mr. Fusion for use on our practice bot?

[Zach O]

I have some questions about next year's Jello game.
May we use Eggo Mini Waffles instead of the full size ones provided in the KOP?

Where can we purchase a second Mr. Fusion for use on our practice bot?

Mini waffles MAY be used, but only if they follow the same toasting guidelines as regular waffles, which may result in burns.

Yes, the first one will be supplied in the Kit of Parts, but any additional Mr. Fusions can be purchased at AndyMark, along with Eggo waffles and instant Jell-O packets. Note, the use of plutonium is NOT allowed, and any robots using plutonium to power their flux capacitor will not pass inspection. (There goes FIRST, going green again!)

[Karibou]

Mini waffles MAY be used, but only if they follow the same toasting guidelines as regular waffles, which may result in burns.

Yes, the first one will be supplied in the Kit of Parts, but any additional Mr. Fusions can be purchased at AndyMark, along with Eggo waffles and instant Jell-O packets. Note, the use of plutonium is NOT allowed, and any robots using plutonium to power their flux capacitor will not pass inspection. (There goes FIRST, going green again!)

Dear sir, do you have confirmation on this? Q&A, or it's not legit.
::rtm::

[bassoondude]

Dear sir, do you have confirmation on this? Q&A, or it's not legit.
::rtm::

I'm pretty sure this is a joke, considering the mention of a flux capacitor, plutonium, and the fact they are trying to use waffles as wheels.

[Siri]

I'm pretty sure this is a joke, considering the mention of a flux capacitor, plutonium, and the fact they are trying to use waffles as wheels.It's legit, please see Team Update 17.


On a slightly more realistic note (this is a "next year's game" thread after all), I could actually see a capture the flag-type game. In fact, it might be a good non-violent allusion to the Civil War, if we're going that route. Maybe a little less complicated though, with bigger "flags" for audience viewing.

...[snipped for space] It was really fun to play with breakaway with people and we got some good strategies out of it.I love this idea. We're considering playing mini matches with VEX (and hopefully still will), but this would be a great addition, both for strategy and understanding the quirks of the field.

[Jeremy Germita]

I had a dream about the 2011 kickoff last night.
The game was similar to Aim High(2006) as you had to shoot balls(similar to poof balls) into a high goal. But it was more like a game of golf(more or less), as the goal moves with every scored ball.

Thinking of anniversaries,
2011 is the:
5th anniversary of Aim High
10th anniversary of Diabolical Dynamics
15th anniversary of Hexagon Havoc

I also agree that swappable bumpers will return. They seem too audience friendly to abandon.
Vision targets probably will return, too.



Personally, I'd like to see a return of the IR beacon and Hybrid period of Overdrive. I thought this was an interesting element of the game.

[Vermeulen]

GDC post (frcdirector.blogspot.com)

The GDC has posted:
The Game Design Committee spent the weekend on the first floor here at 200 Bedford Street. We waded our way through your suggestions and have narrowed the field down to four game concepts, each with their own diabolical twist. We discussed the Coast Guard’s robotic water games with Vince Wilczynski and wondered what we could do to make this year’s game the biggest and the best in order to celebrate FIRST’s 20th anniversary.

Woodie was away on vacation, Aiden was unable to attend and Dean couldn’t join us until Sunday due to other commitments. But, Paul Lazarus brought his filming equipment and FRC staff fueled the GDC with snicker doodles, blueberry pie and the ever present Haagen-Dazs, so by Sunday we were able to build a few prototypes and begin trying out ideas. We are far from finished, but each member of the GDC walked away with something to think about before our next teleconference and we're planning for another onsite soon.

Today Dean is at the JCPenny store managers’ meeting in Texas where eight local FRC teams are introducing senior staff to the excitement of FIRST by playing a mini Breakaway tournament. I wish them all the best of luck. I’m back in my office, planning for the future and finishing up the leftover fruit and bacon.

208 days to Kickoff
See you then!

I've bolded the suspicious-sounding parts.

I think that the water game part, the waded part, and the GDC food part were red herrings, but the bacon part... Why would there be any bacon left over? That doesn't make sense... The first floor part seems unnecessary to me, maybe it's hinting at a multi-storied game?

[Jeremy Germita]

I had another idea...

A FARM-type/theme game!

GDC quote from above:
I’m back in my office, planning for the future and finishing up the leftover fruit and bacon.

They say that it is the 20th anniversary of FIRST. FIRST's First Game was MAIZE Craze.

Corn? Bacon(pigs)?

Maybe you have to harvest some game peice?
Or herd lambs?

Just my thoughts...

[PAR_WIG1350]

Diabolical is probably referring to 2001, where there was one alliance of 4 competing against the clock.

[Karibou]

I had another idea...

A FARM-type/theme game!

GDC quote from above:


They say that it is the 20th anniversary of FIRST. FIRST's First Game was MAIZE Craze.

Corn? Bacon(pigs)?

Maybe you have to harvest some game peice?
Or herd lambs?

Just my thoughts...

I was going to say "Pigs? In FIRST? When pigs fly...", but...yeah. Hey Andy Baker, will the pigs be available from AndyMark?

Words that seem hint-esque to me are "twist", "first floor", and "leftover". Maybe we'll have a game that involves us going up something similar to a spiral staircase to place "leftovers" in the "fridge." (can you tell that I'm thinking about dinner?)

Also, they mentioned a lot of sugary foods this time around.

[delsaner]

We were talking about this topic at a robotics meeting today (just a cleanup session) towards the end of the meeting. We all said, since this'll be the 20th anniversary, that all FIRST games will me mashed together. Here were our ideas...

Small tetras can be stacked on top of plastic tubs or shot through goals at the top of the driver station, which will then be given to the human players to shoot into the trailers behind each robot. For the bonus points, robots can hang on a spider rack, and other robots can suspend from already hung robots.
(we like to be creative with things...) :)

As for the reality, I would love to see a game piece that is not a ball, but balls are easy to use and we have used up all other shapes in previous years. Cylinders may be a possibility, I cant think of any items that would be large enough and sturdy enough for robots to handle. I am imagining baseballs or basketballs. I cant relate to bacon however (I looked up bacon history, saw that Europe was mentioned, looked up popular sports in Europe, and soccer came up, and I doubt its soccer next year, so yea... no luck there :rolleyes:).

My thoughts.

[MWB]

As for the reality, I would love to see a game piece that is not a ball, but balls are easy to use and we have used up all other shapes in previous years. Cylinders may be a possibility, I cant think of any items that would be large enough and sturdy enough for robots to handle. I am imagining baseballs or basketballs. I cant relate to bacon however (I looked up bacon history, saw that Europe was mentioned, looked up popular sports in Europe, and soccer came up, and I doubt its soccer next year, so yea... no luck there :rolleyes:).

My thoughts.

What if they used a non-rigid shape... like a soft thick ball filled with a type of gel.

[bam-bam]

one of the posts says pig-tail (for Ethernet)...

This is probably a common term amongst the programmers, but since the "bacon", I'd thought I should bring it up...

[Andrew Schreiber]

As for the reality, I would love to see a game piece that is not a ball, but balls are easy to use and we have used up all other shapes in previous years. Cylinders may be a possibility, I cant think of any items that would be large enough and sturdy enough for robots to handle. I am imagining baseballs or basketballs. I cant relate to bacon however (I looked up bacon history, saw that Europe was mentioned, looked up popular sports in Europe, and soccer came up, and I doubt its soccer next year, so yea... no luck there :rolleyes:).

My thoughts.


I've been saying it for years; Footballs. Probably no more expensive than the soccer balls this year. Probably just as tough. And it is a really hard shape to manipulate. They don't roll straight and they bounce erratically. Couple this with another game piece (maybe softballs) and you will have teams thinking more strategically since all but a few teams will not be able to manipulate both balls.

[ttldomination]

I've been saying it for years; Footballs. Probably no more expensive than the soccer balls this year. Probably just as tough. And it is a really hard shape to manipulate. They don't roll straight and they bounce erratically. Couple this with another game piece (maybe softballs) and you will have teams thinking more strategically since all but a few teams will not be able to manipulate both balls.

Two Words: Clean Sweep.

- Sunny

[Mr. Tech Vike]

i have a feeling it might revolve around current events. but what i really hope for is a multi-platform feild, something like king of the hill see what robot stays on the longest.

[EricH]

but what i really hope for is a multi-platform feild, something like king of the hill see what robot stays on the longest.2003, Stack Attack. After you got done attacking the stacks and sending them to the ground, you headed for the top of the hill to see how your traction on flat HDPE compared to your opponent's traction on angled copper mesh. Some folks figured out that you could lock in around the edges of the HDPE, so teams had a hard time getting up where they were...

[PAR_WIG1350]

As for the reality, I would love to see a game piece that is not a ball, but balls are easy to use and we have used up all other shapes in previous years. Cylinders may be a possibility, I cant think of any items that would be large enough and sturdy enough for robots to handle. I am imagining baseballs or basketballs. I cant relate to bacon however (I looked up bacon history, saw that Europe was mentioned, looked up popular sports in Europe, and soccer came up, and I doubt its soccer next year, so yea... no luck there :rolleyes:).



Frisbees, traffic cones, shipping tubes, wheels, footballs, Throtons (http://www.aeroaction.com/NewFiles/home.html), etc

[Wildcat]

i have a feeling it might revolve around current events. but what i really hope for is a multi-platform feild, something like king of the hill see what robot stays on the longest.

i foresee a problem with that, im picturing it now: two teams are going to get into a shoving match trying to push each other off the platform, by some coincidence both teams are going to have VERY high traction drive trains, one of their drive trains if not both are going to get completely destroyed

[PAR_WIG1350]

i foresee a problem with that, im picturing it now: two teams are going to get into a shoving match trying to push each other off the platform, by some coincidence both teams are going to have VERY high traction drive trains, one of their drive trains if not both are going to get completely destroyed

thats why you design it so the wheels slip before this happens

[Chris is me]

i foresee a problem with that, im picturing it now: two teams are going to get into a shoving match trying to push each other off the platform, by some coincidence both teams are going to have VERY high traction drive trains, one of their drive trains if not both are going to get completely destroyed

If there is a mechanical (rather than current draw / voltage / electrical) failure in your drivetrain during a pushing match, you built your drivetrain incorrectly.

[pwnageNick]

Here is next year's game. Two cylinders 5 feet tall are spaced apart in the center area of the field. There are balls that shoot out of the cylinder at a high rate. There are 40 in each cylinder, each either red or blue. The objective is to end up with as few of your alliances blocks on the ground. At the end of the field on each alliance side, there's a bin where robots can put balls that came out of the cylinder. Each cylinder is 5 feet in diameter. There is a 20 foot diameter circle around each cylinder according to each alliance color. Only one robot is allowed inside the tape perimeter at a time. The other two robots are in charge of collecting the runaway balls. There is also a line going down the center of the playing field dividing each alliance side. A robot can drive anywhere on the field besides inside the circle around the cylinder. In the last 30 seconds 10 balls for each alliance will come out of the cylinder that are worth 5 times the value of a normal ball. One detail: Robots cannot cover up the cylinder opening, but they can try to catch the balls or deflect them back into the cylinder. A normal ball on the floor is 1 point. A ending ball is 5 points. The game will be called Breaking Point (BP)

In case you couldn't tell, this game is based off of the BP Oil Spill lol.
At first I was laughing at my idea myself, but now that I'm looking at this, I think this might actually be pretty cool.

[Garret]

I think a game in which the playing field is covered in a layer of sand would be an interesting challenge.

[ttldomination]

I think a game in which the playing field is covered in a layer of sand would be an interesting challenge.

And a dirty one....

Next year's game is going to involve vuvuzelas...I can just feel it.

[iblis432]

this may have already been said, i havn't been keeping up with this post, but here's some food for thought.

400 years ago (7 Jan 1610)
Italian scientist and astronomer Galileo Galilei discovered Jupiter’s four largest moons: Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto

100 years ago (13 Jan 1910)
The first public radio broadcast – an experimental live transmission from the Metropolitan Opera House, New York, USA, where several famous opera singers, including Enrico Caruso, were performing

For Galileo all I can think of is four scoring elements: Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto. But what these actually are and what you do with them is beyond me. something to do with rotation perhaps?

I dont know what you can do with the first radio broadcast, but it's an interesting scientific tidbit they might throw in.

[rcmolloy]

By now the GDC could be thinking of anything. I know that next years game is going to be outrageous but extremely fun. The best thing to do right now, like iblis432 said, is to look at events and past games for hints. I have a strong feeling regolith will be included in next years game with a feature that resembles a hockey like game.

[apalrd]

...regolith will be included in next years game.....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo!!!!! I hate regolith.

[rcmolloy]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo!!!!! I hate regolith.

Haha! Regolith is the death of me as well. Although, if it is a hockey based game like I think it could possibly be, I can guarantee that the regolith will be used as "ice". Let's just hope that the GDC actually knows appreciates how annoying regolith was during Lunacy.

[Bjenks548]

Haha! Regolith is the death of me as well. Although, if it is a hockey based game like I think it could possibly be, I can guarantee that the regolith will be used as "ice". Let's just hope that the GDC actually knows appreciates how annoying regolith was during Lunacy.

Just imagine regolith bumps on a field :yikes:

[rcmolloy]

Just imagine regolith bumps on a field :yikes:

:ahh: Personally, I wouldn't play the game hahaha.

[lim shi hao]

ERR.... even though singapore is not involved in the game, but i agreed that its best that you wait, meanwhile do some test and prototyping, possibly some practice to keep the team in good shape for next year.:confused: :confused:

[548swimmer]

ERR.... even though singapore is not involved in the game, but i agreed that its best that you wait, meanwhile do some test and prototyping, possibly some practice to keep the team in good shape for next year.:confused: :confused:

This happens every season. With the absence of a game to focus our efforts on, we take guesses as to the next years game.

[rcmolloy]

Well I just throw things out there based on my opinion. Right now, I am developing a mecanum chassis prototype for a new type of drive train. It's just something to get us thinking about next year and what to prototype in the off-season.

[J-Brock]

well, '09 the theme was the moon, and it was the anniversary of landing on the moon, and the theme this year was based off soccer and a major event in soccer was this year maybe since cricket's world cup will be next year, the next years game will be like cricket?

[delsaner]

I've been saying it for years; Footballs. Probably no more expensive than the soccer balls this year. Probably just as tough. And it is a really hard shape to manipulate. They don't roll straight and they bounce erratically. Couple this with another game piece (maybe softballs) and you will have teams thinking more strategically since all but a few teams will not be able to manipulate both balls.

Footballs came across my mind as a possibility, and it seemed plausible; The only reason I backed away is that I thought objects similar to footballs were brought up in a recent game (apprantly, the game I was talking about is unrelated to FIRST. I just remember talk about this one game using footballs and balls, my bad). Now that I realize that footballs have not been mentioned, I think that would be a more likely game piece to use. Thanks for helping me correct myself, haha. :)

[Emiller8]

I think the game piece will most likely be some sort of football shaped object. I still am wondering how the goals will be set? Would there be goals at both ends of the field, or one goal in the center that both alliances would have to use to score. The possibilities are endless.

[XOFallenAngelOX]

well.....A WATER GAME OF COARSE!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[Bjenks548]

So here are a few ideas.
The game piece or pieces well be accessible to everyone
It will celebrate 20 years of first
You will need a good 3 person alliance, one person can't make a team (kinda like this year)
It will be fun like every year

[Robert Cawthon]

This happens every season. With the absence of a game to focus our efforts on, we take guesses as to the next years game.

Yes, it does happen every year. It keeps the mind limber and I love to hear what the young (and our ancient and decrepid) minds come up with. Some are better than the GDC, in my humble opinion. (No, no water games. That comes up every year, also.) It's still fun and, who knows? Maybe one will hit close to what the GDC came up with. Wouldn't that be something.

On a side note, I agree with Andy. Footballs would be a good challenge and easy to get. :cool:

[R2D2DOC]

Have not read ALL of the possibilities in this thread. However, at IRI, there was a bean bag toss game offered as an auction item. Could those be made larger and of durable materials feasible for FRC? It would be a "square" profile, something we have not seen in a long time. And it would fit with an "older" rock tune by Huey Lewis and the News: "Hip to be Square"

Enjoy. . .

[blackiceskier]

Well since it is going to be the 20th anniversy of FIRST that can only mean one thing. the return of the CORN the field itself will be a different surface again and the game play will be simple. Also there will be wires hanging from the ceiling

This years game will be a total retro throwback

[ThaineP]

And it would fit with an "older" rock tune by Huey Lewis and the News: "Hip to be Square"

Enjoy. . .

It makes me feel old that I know (or have) that song. :yikes: :o I've gotten ribbings about my 'ancient' taste in music, even from my family. Hehe....

I thought something involving a game piece like a frisbee would be cool, with something like breakaway for a goal, and the 'bots would throw them like the football machines for practicing with, with the two wheels.

I hope it's something with a shape other than a plain sphere, for a challenge.


Thaine

[rcmolloy]

And it would fit with an "older" rock tune by Huey Lewis and the News: "Hip to be Square"

American Psycho! Hip to be Square is such a classic along with the movie.

[Radical Pi]

I thought something involving a game piece like a frisbee would be cool, with something like breakaway for a goal, and the 'bots would throw them like the football machines for practicing with, with the two wheels.

Our team would win big time on that one :P (3/4 of our team plays frisbee)

I like the idea of beanbags, or some sort of game piece that doesn't keep a constant shape. It requires much more flexibility in the robots (after the entire "We got a different soccer ball than Breakaway is using! Our robot won't be able to kick both of them!" thing)

[R2D2DOC]

Well since it is going to be the 20th anniversy of FIRST that can only mean one thing. the return of the CORN the field itself will be a different surface again and the game play will be simple. Also there will be wires hanging from the ceiling

This years game will be a total retro throwback

Fill the Bean Bags with CORN kernels ! !

[hg273]

Our team would win big time on that one :P (3/4 of our team plays frisbee)


No advantage there, seeing as 3/4 of FIRST plays frisbee :p

[Bjenks548]

Just guessing, the goals will be scored automatically again. That seemed to work really well.

[yarden.saa]

some hooks hanging from ceiling that can move to the crowd (it will be intresting). the purpose is hang mini 'bots on the hooks.
the mini 'bots will be a robot the size of 15x15 inch that will drive randomly autonomously.every time a mini 'bot is hanged on the hooks, the hooks will go down so the mini 'bots can return to game. there is a problem how the mini 'bots don't get dameged but I sure FIRST will have a solution.

[PAR_WIG1350]

It would be interesting to build a robot that needed to cross gaps and help other robots that lack this ability to get across, but that is more of a game element than an actual game.

[Karibou]

some hooks hanging from ceiling that can move to the crowd (it will be intresting). the purpose is hang mini 'bots on the hooks.
the mini 'bots will be a robot the size of 15x15 inch that will drive randomly autonomously.every time a mini 'bot is hanged on the hooks, the hooks will go down so the mini 'bots can return to game. there is a problem how the mini 'bots don't get dameged but I sure FIRST will have a solution.
That sounds like fun...but I don't know that the venues will appreciate us installing hooks on their ceilings D:

[yarden.saa]

The hooks idea I wrote was bad but I think the mini 'bots idea is great and can be in any game idea.
I think 2 mini 'bots per 6 robots is the best fit.

[Siri]

That sounds like fun...but I don't know that the venues will appreciate us installing hooks on their ceilings D:They could probably do a pretty simple "fake" ceiling, like hanging hooks from 2008-like Overpasses, or maybe slightly higher.

I'd wonder about the price of autonomous bots, though. With the expense of the trackballs ('08) and regolith ('09), and the difficulty getting orbit balls ('09), it seems like FIRST is leaning towards standard/readily available/easyish to make and easy to repair/replace. Two alliances vying to control two minibots would definitely take their toll, probably even faster than the orbit balls needed fixing (and almost certainly more difficult). Maybe take the changing shape and CG of beanbags rather than actual robots?

[Jeremy Germita]

Maybe the Mini bots can be:
1. slightly modified Roomba's. That is commercially available, but relatively expensive compared to track/orbit/poof balls. They also have some experience on the field!

2. Non-autonomous RC cars or similar. Maybe the Human players will control the opposing alliances' cars. Any generic car will do for practice, but one modified for the action of 60+ matches will be used officially.


Also, the hooks don't seem like that bad of an idea. Like Siri said, the idea of 08's overpass can be made into a pseudo-ceiling. That seems like an interesting element of the game, combined with the minibots.


I still see a Corn/Farm/20th Anniversary themed game.

Maybe even a variation of the tethered bots. like, if your robot strays too far from a set point, the robot will have to return within a set time.

Or even, The MiniBots are tethered and the size of Maize Craze Bots!

Possibilities...

[Radical Pi]

2. Non-autonomous RC cars or similar. Maybe the Human players will control the opposing alliances' cars. Any generic car will do for practice, but one modified for the action of 60+ matches will be used officially.

Hmm, scoring elements driving away from your robot? What an evil idea :cool:

Actually, it could make for a very fun game. Imagine something like rounding up a bunch of cattle. Let's add a 2nd human player and have each alliance have 6 mini-bots (each controlled by a single HP). The goal of the big bots is to keep the opposing alliance's mini-bots inside a scoring area. Get a point every time a mini-bot enters the scoring area, multiplier for all bots in at the end. Perhaps to shake things up at endgame the scoring areas are switched and all of the bots need to be herded to the other side for the bonus. No idea what autonomous would be.

Plus, imagine the reaction from the Human Player when a bot picks up his mini-bot :D

[Siri]

The goal of the big bots is to keep the opposing alliance's mini-bots inside a scoring area. Get a point every time a mini-bot enters the scoring area, multiplier for all bots in at the end.This would make for interesting strategy, since the goal isn't actually to keep the mini-bots inside, but to keep them crossing the line. Still don't know how it could work from a cost standpoint, but it's an interesting gedankenexperiment.

[yarden.saa]

I like the idea of the human player that is driving in the minibot but...
I don't know how the FMS will work with more than 6 robots (in Israel it didn't worked with 6 robots(I hope to know that the problem was the router it self, but we don't know till now)).

The minibots should me autonomous to keep the game not crowded.
The purpose of the minibots is to make the game more difficult equally(the mini bot is travelling in the field and disturb all thr robots equally)

[Jeremy Germita]

Maybe the FMS only handles the scoring of the bots, they will be controlled by the usual RC frequencies. It will be a little costly to outfit the RC cars with the wireless compatible with the FMS.

[EricH]

Maybe they'll return all the Placebo robots to the field... Hovercraft, Vacuum, and I think there was another... If the vacuum worked, too, the field might stay clean!

[Bjenks548]

Why should the field supply the minibot? I think how you build your minibot (following the rules of course) is very important...

[Siri]

Maybe the FMS only handles the scoring of the bots, they will be controlled by the usual RC frequencies. It will be a little costly to outfit the RC cars with the wireless compatible with the FMS.Interesting. (Glad I'm not an FTA, though.)

Or you could just tag the minibots like that lap counters in '08 (except, you know, working) for scoring and then control them autonomously/via RC frequencies.

[Jeremy Germita]

Eric, the other placebo was a confetti shooting bot.
Placebos sound like they were an interesting element to a match.

[kstl99]

Here is a great video that could lead to an interesting game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_citFkSNtk

[oddjob]

2011 is the 2500 year anniversary of the marathon and the international year of chemistry. Combining marathon with chemistry, the game is to build a fuel cell powered robot that can move continuously for the full 2 minutes 15 seconds.

I know what you are thinking, that's almost as dull as Lunacy but for the robots that stop moving, an onboard motion sensor triggers an explosive charge (air bag module) and the robot gets blown up. Too bad for them but very exciting for the spectators. Bring plenty of spare parts next year.

[Bjenks548]

Bill mentioned the new game again

"I’m exhausted. The Game Design Committee met on-site this weekend and covered a lot of territory. The 2011 game has changed again. I can’t tell you how, but the elements engineering prototyped for this weekend are being moved to storage, procurement is looking for different game pieces his morning and we’re developing scoring for the new design. Of course the game could change again by the next meeting, but right now we’re all focused on the ideas from this weekend. Luckily we had enough Haagen-Dazs to keep everyone fueled. Unfortunately, Paul Lazarus didn’t get any because he logged in from a remote location."

All I see from this is nothings set in stone yet, but there seems to be a general concept. Also the game pieces must be something that there are a lot of different types (footballs?, bean bags?). That's all i can get from this, I'm sure people will start looking for connections to Haagen-Dazs though.

[Karibou]

All I see from this is nothings set in stone yet, but there seems to be a general concept. Also the game pieces must be something that there are a lot of different types (footballs?, bean bags?). That's all i can get from this, I'm sure people will start looking for connections to Haagen-Dazs though.
Wasn't Haagen-Dazs one of the running "hints" from Bill's Blog last year?

I disagree about the different types. If they have to work out an entirely new method of scoring, then they probably completely changed the game piece from one object to a completely different one.

[joeweber]

Heres a clue to next years game. Hear the word FIRST alot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLtWVy1DQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLtWVy1DQI

[maverickfan138]

Haagen Dazs doesn't really jump out as something important in that message. Instead, the words fueled, remote, and location are extremely striking. The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to do with the oil spill in the gulf. Fueled is pretty self explanatory. Remotes are what they used to control the under water robots that repaired the leaking well. The well was a mile under the sea, so that could be a remote location. Maybe the game will involve blindly(well, using the camera) positioning something from a difficult location?

[will_1359]

there could also be some control lag involved, if we have to rotate a valve wheel while using a camera, i can't wait to finish my personal project and have the team take inspiration from it.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Haagen Dazs doesn't really jump out as something important in that message. Instead, the words fueled, remote, and location are extremely striking. The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to do with the oil spill in the gulf. Fueled is pretty self explanatory. Remotes are what they used to control the under water robots that repaired the leaking well. The well was a mile under the sea, so that could be a remote location. Maybe the game will involve blindly(well, using the camera) positioning something from a difficult location?

Sounds more like Lunacy to me, considering the source. (outpost-->remote location, refueling station-->fueled)

TERRITORY stands out more to me (and not just because I capitalized it).

[Radical Pi]

TERRITORY stands out more to me (and not just because I capitalized it).

Territory...capture the flag? The team with the most Haagen-Dazs tubs wins?

[Tyler Hicks]

I've been expecting a CTF (capture the flag) game type for the past few years now. That would be the most advanced game by far in my opinion. There are endless possibilities to make a CTF game for FRC fun and complex.

[hg273]

Haagen Dazs doesn't really jump out as something important in that message. Instead, the words fueled, remote, and location are extremely striking. The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to do with the oil spill in the gulf. Fueled is pretty self explanatory. Remotes are what they used to control the under water robots that repaired the leaking well. The well was a mile under the sea, so that could be a remote location. Maybe the game will involve blindly(well, using the camera) positioning something from a difficult location?

Keep in mind that the GDC is trying to design more spectator-friendly games. Breakaway was a fantastic example of this. We'd like a game where we can bring people who've never heard of FIRST before, and they can instantly understand what is going on. A blind target game sounds slow (like fixing the oil spill) and not necessarily conducive towards audience engagement. Let's be honest, who here watched the entire feed of BP trying to fix the riser pipe?

[Karibou]

Haagen Dazs doesn't really jump out as something important in that message. Instead, the words fueled, remote, and location are extremely striking. The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to do with the oil spill in the gulf. Fueled is pretty self explanatory. Remotes are what they used to control the under water robots that repaired the leaking well. The well was a mile under the sea, so that could be a remote location. Maybe the game will involve blindly(well, using the camera) positioning something from a difficult location?
Keep in mind that the oil spill happened long after Kickoff, which I believe is when the GDC begins working on the next year's game. They might have found a way to weave the oil spill concept into the game, but I doubt that's what the game's "theme" is.

Those are really good words to weed out, though. They remind me A LOT of Lunacy...I'm sure that was on purpose.

[Bjenks548]

Ok so what game is easy to watch and has a lot of game pieces?

I don't think it will be a sport however because we had that this year. Maybe something like building a pyramid (something more stable then the boxes in stack attack) or a puzzle or something.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Ok so what game is easy to watch and has a lot of game pieces?

I don't think it will be a sport however because we had that this year. Maybe something like building a pyramid (something more stable then the boxes in stack attack) or a puzzle or something.

Tanagrams?

[CalTran]

Tanagrams would be interesting. I don't think that's too much of a spectator sport though; seems like it'd be slow paced.

[Karibou]

Tanagrams?

Maybe more of a puzzle-type game. Tanagrams is less based on strategy and more based on the creativity of the person (or people) behind the glass. Puzzle-making is also creativity, but maybe a game could be a modified version that just involves interaction between game pieces for bonuses. Maybe tossing a bean bag chair into an elevated box at the end of the game, or something like that.

[ThaineP]

Tetris!

Naaaah.
Too bad, though.

[Bjenks548]

The only problem with my puzzle idea is there would be only one way to solve each puzzle... I don't know about other teams, but my drive team would know that puzzle inside and out. What other treacherous ideas could they do...

[PAR_WIG1350]

Maybe more of a puzzle-type game. Tanagrams is less based on strategy and more based on the creativity of the person (or people) behind the glass. Puzzle-making is also creativity, but maybe a game could be a modified version that just involves interaction between game pieces for bonuses. Maybe tossing a bean bag chair into an elevated box at the end of the game, or something like that.

Now that would be interesting, that would require a large manipulator, though, and teams would have to decide if the bonus is worth the weight and space penalties.

[Bjenks548]

Bill speaks again " And Game Design is now weighing the pros and cons of purchasing game elements (no one seems to have exactly what we want) vs. having them made (pricey and there are the issues of lead time and inventory to consider). "

There goes the idea of footballs...

[kstl99]

I know it is fun to speculate as shown by the 364 responses in this thread, but I am curious if anyone was close to guessing what last year's game would be.

[ttldomination]

I know it is fun to speculate as shown by the 364 responses in this thread, but I am curious if anyone was close to guessing what last year's game would be.

Is anyone ever close to guessing it? And even if one is close, there's no way of knowing whether that someone is close or not.

[Siri]

I know it is fun to speculate as shown by the 364 responses in this thread, but I am curious if anyone was close to guessing what last year's game would be.Don't know of anyone who got close-ish before the hints start coming out. I've seen a couple get close with the hints: understanding the tortoise & hare statues from the numbers (GPS coordinates) in 2008, etc. Granted, I've never seen it help with design considerations pre-kickoff, but it's fun. :P

[Chris is me]

Bill speaks again " And Game Design is now weighing the pros and cons of purchasing game elements (no one seems to have exactly what we want) vs. having them made (pricey and there are the issues of lead time and inventory to consider). "

There goes the idea of footballs...

There's no reason that couldn't be a red herring. :P

[demosthenes2k8]

How about a nice game of chess?

[JesseK]

I'm going with orange cones again. If I guess it enough years, eventually I will be correct.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Bill speaks again " And Game Design is now weighing the pros and cons of purchasing game elements (no one seems to have exactly what we want) vs. having them made (pricey and there are the issues of lead time and inventory to consider). "

Either they are changing the weight restrictions, or this is a red herring. I would be inclined to guess the latter, but the former isn't out of the question either.

[Doctorwho]

Curling perhaps?

[Karibou]

Either they are changing the weight restrictions, or this is a red herring. I would be inclined to guess the latter, but the former isn't out of the question either.
Or they could be referencing the possibility that the game is about weight...or balance? I doubt that they will be changing the weight restrictions unless it is by lowering the maximum weight. The possibility of increasing the weight limit has been mentioned every year, and it has also been mentioned every year that it is unlikely that they will be raising the weight. Long story short, two people can only lift up so much robot safely.

[Bjenks548]

Is anyone ever close to guessing it? And even if one is close, there's no way of knowing whether that someone is close or not.

Actually yes, I heard from 2 separate people last year (before the game hints even came out) saying that the game would either be soccer based or Olympic based. The second I saw a soccer ball at kickoff I knew they were right.

[ttldomination]

Actually yes, I heard from 2 separate people last year (before the game hints even came out) saying that the game would either be soccer based or Olympic based. The second I saw a soccer ball at kickoff I knew they were right.

Of course some people get close, but knowing that you were close after kick-off doesn't present much of a benefit.

[Taylor]

Actually yes, I heard from 2 separate people last year (before the game hints even came out) saying that the game would either be soccer based or Olympic based. The second I saw a soccer ball at kickoff I knew they were right.

Olympics + Soccer = pretty much every sport ever is included in that statement. It's so broad they couldn't miss.

I predict the champion drive teams at each event of the 2011 season will consist of vertebrates.

[Siri]

Olympics + Soccer = pretty much every sport ever is included in that statement. It's so broad they couldn't miss.Assuming it's sports-based. They would have missed in 2009 and 2008*...and 2007, 2005... All in all, sports is board and can even be ambiguous (was 2009 mobile basketball on ice?), not to mention a decent bet in a world championship year. You can certainly miss, though.

*Avoiding the "is NASCAR a sport" question, it's certainly not an Olympic sport. Unless 2008 was supposed to be based on speed skating.

[JesseK]

*Avoiding the "is NASCAR a sport" question, it's certainly not an Olympic sport. Unless 2008 was supposed to be based on speed skating.

Speed skating = 2008 game on the 2009 surface. THAT may have been fun to watch! Heck, even the 2009 game on the 2009 surface with the 2008 lap system would have been much more fun than that clust....... oh nvm. Eventually they'll get some real ice on the field and call it a water game :ahh:

[kenavt]

For the past two years, the FRC game has been about something happening that year (and celebrating it, in a way). 2009, the L-word, was, of course, the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11. 2010, Breakaway, from what I see, was the 2010 World Cup. Following this parallel (and why wouldn't the GDC?), something interesting/an anniversary has to be taking place this year that would somehow translate into the 2011 FRC game.

That's my guess. As to what's the event that's so important... there's the Cricket and Rugby World Cups, the Space Shuttle is to be retired, the 125th anniversary of the patenting of the first practical internal combustion car, a couple milestones in radio programming, and you could say it's the 2500th anniversary of the marathon.

The GDC has a lot of material.

[dabig hammer]

i think it goes without saying that FIRST would never be so reckless as to make a "water" game and use water... they would probably use mineral oil as it doesnt conduct electricity but this would bring on a host of new problems such as the cost, how much of a pain it would to work on an oily robot, teams access to large quantities of the oil, and if the robot tips, relays and plugs would be covered in oil and no longer work unless thoroughly cleaned... so yeah barring hassles and cost no liquid game

[demosthenes2k8]

Well, technically, water doesn't conduct the charge, but using distilled water would be irritating.

I'm thinking it maybe has a chemical theme, considering *coughcoughBPcoughcough* that 2011 is the International Year of Chemistry.

PS kenavt, Lego isn't a swear.

[ttldomination]

I'm thinking it maybe has a chemical theme, considering *coughcoughBPcoughcough* that 2011 is the International Year of Chemistry.

That would be fine, but there has to be the entertainment factor to the games that FIRST has been looking for.

Cause, idk about you, but if the GDC has us balancing equations for 2 minutes and 15 seconds...idk what I'd do...but I wouldn't be a happy camper. Although it might help in my chem class...

[Tyler Hicks]

In 2009, the hint was something along the lines of "moon fish", and it was the anniversary for the moon landing. But even if they just said, "MOON Game", there is no way anyone could get lunacy out of that, or placing orbit balls and placing them in trailers for a game.

2010 we have the world cup, and same thing goes, they could simply say "ROBOT SOCCER", sure we could have a kicking robot, but I highly doubt anyone could piece together a field with bumps and towers.

So whatever events happen in this year, the game might have a link to it, but First does a good job shocking everyone at kickoff.

[JesseK]

Regardless of hints, the last 3 years have had linearly-scaled scoring games. No multipliers, no "last team to cap gets the goal", no "stacks" of anything. My prediction is that this year will have some such element, and that element alone will drive strategems out of whack.

[kenavt]

Well, technically, water doesn't conduct the charge, but using distilled water would be irritating.

I'm thinking it maybe has a chemical theme, considering *coughcoughBPcoughcough* that 2011 is the International Year of Chemistry.

PS kenavt, Lego isn't a swear.

Oh, Lego? Nope, not a swear... but the other word... :ahh:

But, actually, if 2011 is the Year of Chemistry, then that has to be the theme of the game in some way. However... I don't think they're going to make an oil spill game. I just can't imagine them being able to realistically translate the oil spill to a FRC field.

[Taylor]

I just can't imagine them being able to realistically translate the oil spill to a FRC field.

I think they already have. Maize Craze.

A field covered in ball bearings/marbles/corn kernels would absolutely be analogous to oil. Unfortunately, if there were a corn game now, the teams would go crazy(ier?) trying to find the absolute correct hybrid the GDC used.

[Siri]

I think they already have. Maize Craze.

A field covered in ball bearings/marbles/corn kernels would absolutely be analogous to oil. Unfortunately, if there were a corn game now, the teams would go crazy(ier?) trying to find the absolute correct hybrid the GDC used.I think the bigger craze-inducing factor would be finding enough of it to cover the current field, since the Maize Craze tabletop was more than 5.5 times smaller. :eek:

[PAR_WIG1350]

The game should be such that the robots can more freely expand, the bumper rules have become very rigid. I hope they allow a little more freedom with whatever new game they come up with.

[zachmartin1806]

Looking around i saw something that said 2011 is the 2,500th anniversary of the first ever marathon, and MIT's 150th anniversary. Could anything be pulled from this?

[EricH]

5-minute matches, and the maximum size limit goes to one smoot in any direction. (Starting size remains unchanged.)

Oh, and the game will be a measuring race; the alliance to measure the farthest wins. Tape measures are specifically disallowed, however (until reallowed when implemented by a team that didn't read the rules at a Week 1 event).

[SteveGPage]

Since this is the first year in St. Louis, how about a game with arches and bridges. FTC hints indicate that is what this year's FTC game will be. I could see a game where we have to climb ramps, maybe elevate team members again, cross gaps, etc... Make it a 3D game, so not a level 2D field, but multiple levels.

[ttldomination]

Make it a 3D game, so not a level 2D field, but multiple levels.

The issue with a 3D game is the visual aspect of things. In Lunacy, it was so hard to see what was going on over tall robots and trailers, and this year, there were large blind spots behind the bumps.

So you really have to wonder how much 3D there can be before drivers can't see what they're doing/the game play degrades.

- Sunny

[SteveGPage]

The issue with a 3D game is the visual aspect of things. In Lunacy, it was so hard to see what was going on over tall robots and trailers, and this year, there were large blind spots behind the bumps.

So you really have to wonder how much 3D there can be before drivers can't see what they're doing/the game play degrades.

- Sunny

Good point. I think a couple of bridges and/or ramps, however, could still be used, much like the bumps and towers were used as field obstacles last season.

[demosthenes2k8]

It might also make for strategic use of the cameras

[PAR_WIG1350]

It might also make for strategic use of the cameras

But then it becomes harder for the rookie teams to play

[Chris is me]

But then it becomes harder for the rookie teams to play

This applies to literally any aspect of the game challenge.

[PAR_WIG1350]

But then it becomes harder for the rookie teams to play
This applies to literally any aspect of the game challenge.

Harder is the key word, it is already hard enough for rookie teams without forcing them to incorporate live feed from the camera or image processing.

[JesseK]

Harder is the key word, it is already hard enough for rookie teams without forcing them to incorporate live feed from the camera or image processing.

Rookies will always be able to play the game without cameras. Teams that successfully incorporate the camera into some automated function of their robot will usually have more success. How is this wrong?

[leenco12]

No wheels -- hover craft.
A hockey-like game?

well what something big (big in history big in sports big in science etc) that will tell u the type of game were going to have

[Akash Rastogi]

well what something big (big in history big in sports big in science etc) that will tell u the type of game were going to have

Reported

[leenco12]

*Begins working feverishly on an automated fist-pumping mechanism*

All jokes aside, I'd really like to get through this season before someone throws another game at me.

I'm just going to go ahead and start discussion of the 2013 game, if you don't mind...

Seriously, it gets earlier and earlier every year. But we as teams will know little or nothing until next January. Sure, it's fun to speculate. But to do that while well over a third of the teams still have at least one event left is just a little premature...

[sithmonkey13]

I disagree with your assessments here and I'll answer each of your reasons:
1> Safety -- Just because the driver(s) cannot directly see does not mean that they cannot get information about the robots. Camera feedback and human players (looking around the curtain ... lets call them spotters) could easily give feedback to the drivers.

2> Spectators/crowds -- In most arenas the crowd sees from the side of the field, so you would lose less than 10% seating visibility. You could also tap into the teams video feed (if they have one ... it's IP is known) and feed that to the big board, giving the crowd (and possibly human players) a robots eye view (something that would make the game MORE exciting ... if you ask me).


Are there issues to overcome in driving without seeing the robot? Absolutely.
Are they impossible to overcome? not at all.
What if the team did not put a camera on? Or like 1178's (my team) bot, where due to unforeseen circumstances (the kick system jarring a damaged power cable) where in the middle of a match, a team might lose camera, and not get it back?

[Bjenks548]

Anyone else think the game object won't be a perfect sphere? I say this for 3 reasons.
1) In recent years the games tend to rotate between ball, not a ball. Assuming orbit balls are not considered perfect "spheres"
2)No student team member has worked with anything other then a round object. 08 track ball 09 orbit ball and 10 soccer ball.
3) The FTC and FRC games usually have some similarities and their not using balls/spheres

FYI: I know 1 and 2 contradict a little bit, but u can see where I'm coming from.

[sithmonkey13]

Multi-level arena
I know this would be difficult, but hear me out. Not a full, two story arena, but an arena with ramps to a raised platform in the center, with rails to keep robots from falling off. Also, less strict rules on violence. We put bumpers on, so let us slam into other robots.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

What if the team did not put a camera on? Or like 1178's (my team) bot, where due to unforeseen circumstances (the kick system jarring a damaged power cable) where in the middle of a match, a team might lose camera, and not get it back?

Then that team would have to adapt and overcome. Possibly using spotters ... or getting assistance from their alliance partners?


The greatest successes come from the greatest adversities.

[princessnatalie]

Going of the idea of multiple levels, and the pattern of having to do with historical dates...
In 1911 the Erector Set was invented by AC Gilbert...

Not sure how relevant this information is, I am probably just forcing things to fit the pattern.

[loora]

The future game would be hovercraft gmae. I like that idea!

[dotbran]

The South Pole is reached for the first time.
The Rutherford model of the atom is created.
Superconductivity is discovered (=hovercrafts?).
An aircraft lands on a ship for the first times.
The neon lamp is developed.

[pandamonium]

It is never too early!

The GDC released a new gate this year maybe they planned to incorporate this in the next game design as well. This gate allowed for the field to be divided into 3 sections via ramps. next year they may be divided by walls, stairs, other... It is my opinion that this change was made for more than just one game and perhaps they were planning ahead.

How challenging would getting over a 12 inch high wall be?

[TomH]

Regarding the erector set, I can see the idea that you need to be able to manipulate pieces into some set of some sort. I also have come upon that in 1961, the first manned flight happened. Now I know we just got off Lunacy, so it might not happen. What ever this years game might be, it seems like it be very interesting if it has a historic background.

[davidthefat]

It is never too early!

The GDC released a new gate this year maybe they planned to incorporate this in the next game design as well. This gate allowed for the field to be divided into 3 sections via ramps. next year they may be divided by walls, stairs, other... It is my opinion that this change was made for more than just one game and perhaps they were planning ahead.

How challenging would getting over a 12 inch high wall be?

My response: don't go around, go through! ::ouch:: :ahh:

[Chadius012]

It is never too early!

The GDC released a new gate this year maybe they planned to incorporate this in the next game design as well. This gate allowed for the field to be divided into 3 sections via ramps. next year they may be divided by walls, stairs, other... It is my opinion that this change was made for more than just one game and perhaps they were planning ahead.

How challenging would getting over a 12 inch high wall be?

I think an articulating chassis is the way to go in this case. Just worm over the wall.

[pandamonium]

ramp bots that drive up on each other to get over and hopefully they wont tip when dropping off the other side.

But that isn't the point I was getting at. What do you guys think about if the gate will be used again and how?

[Mike Marandola]

I really would like to see either a flying game, a water game, or a game with small game objects, such as bouncy balls fired at high speeds.:D

[demosthenes2k8]

I really would like to see either a flying game, a water game, or a game with small game objects, such as bouncy balls fired at high speeds.:D

Oh geez we're modeling neutrinoes.

[gilkeedman]

With Carpet
and it's going to be some type of integration between baseball and football

[Dustin Shadbolt]

There are a lot of historical dates that they could use to pull from but then again it could be something completely random. Kind of hard to tell. Can't wait 'till the first clue though.

[sithmonkey13]

there's the Cricket and Rugby World Cups

Robot rugby?

[aechmtwash11]

even though Bill said that FIRST is going to hold off on the 20th anniversary celebration I still see the GDC bringing back different aspects from past years. Maybe the low friction surface from Lunacy, bumps from Breakaway, big balls from over drive....it would be kind of like what Survivor did a few years ago with Survivor All-Star's

[dotbran]

even though Bill said that FIRST is going to hold off on the 20th anniversary celebration I still see the GDC bringing back different aspects from past years. Maybe the low friction surface from Lunacy, bumps from Breakaway, big balls from over drive....it would be kind of like what Survivor did a few years ago with Survivor All-Star's

I want me some MAIZE CRAZE

[dodar]

maize craze with tennis balls!!!

[Jeremy Germita]

If the FTC(and/or FLL) game(s) of the year hint at the next FRC Game, then I can predict an increased importance of autonomy.

FTC:
40 Second Autonomous mode(v. 30 of previous years)

FLL:
The Bad Cell destruction is a mission that requires the light sensor in order to be consistently successful.

[davidthefat]

If the FTC(and/or FLL) game(s) of the year hint at the next FRC Game, then I can predict an increased importance of autonomy.

FTC:
40 Second Autonomous mode(v. 30 of previous years)

FLL:
The Bad Cell destruction is a mission that requires the light sensor in order to be consistently successful.

Thats good cause I don't need to worry about the length of the autonomous mode

[demosthenes2k8]

I think that if autonomous is more important, then you DEFINITELY need to worry about the length.

[davidthefat]

I think that if autonomous is more important, then you DEFINITELY need to worry about the length.

Well you obviously do not know my goal for this year, full automation even during the teleop mode.

[Jeremy Germita]

To quote one of our FTC mentors, "A fifteen second autonomous mode is nothing!"

With a longer Autonomous mode, there could possibly be more than one scoring method.

[Grim Tuesday]

I doubt that they will bring back old elements, since it would represent a huge advantage to teams who played in those events, as opposed to teams who joined FIRST at a later stage. Even teams with less seniors to sophmores percentage would be at a disbalance.

I would love to see a game involving light in some manner, possibly using laser as a scoring mechanism.

[the programmer]

i'd like to see something with 3 or fewer scoring objects or a bunch of objects with 1 or 2 valuable ones, this way you could actually keep track of things and get excited for rarer scores, an example: you get much more excited about a touchdown in football than you do a 3-pointer in basketball

[Bjenks548]

When does Bill give out the first game hints usually?

[EricH]

When does Bill give out the first game hints usually?
The official game hint does not come out until December.

Anything you may or may not think is a hint from either Dave or Bill could come at any time, including in previous years.

[dlavery]

The official game hint does not come out until December.

Oh? Really? Is there some documentation or policy statement that says that is the case?

I'm just sayin'....



.

[EricH]

Oh? Really? Is there some documentation or policy statement that says that is the case?

I'm just sayin'....



.
Tradition is almost a policy in itself...

Admittedly, last year's tradition is this year's rule change!

[Karibou]

Oh? Really? Is there some documentation or policy statement that says that is the case?

I'm just sayin'....



.
No, but as Eric said, it seems to be a tradition.

However, I will not complain at all if I wake up on Thanksgiving and find a game hint and a thread about it. Who doesn't want Christmas (or your choice of winter holiday) to come early?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Oh? Really? Is there some documentation or policy statement that says that is the case?

I'm just sayin'....



.

If we ask really nicely can we get it pushed back until New Year's Eve since we will all be staying up late that night anyway? What if we bribed you with cookies?

[Siri]

Dave was also kind enough to drop us a 'hint' in the Universal Gripper thread.
I wonder how well it could pick up one of these:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mCdS4AIyL._SS500_.jpg

-dave

Which I assume means we're all either picking up little circular (R) pieces or dressing like Nittany Lions. ;)

[Chris is me]

I'm going to laugh when the game piece is literally tennis balls and people go way off with the brand name or shape of the picture.

[maverickfan138]

I wouldn't be surprised if the game involved a see-saw or multiple see-saws in some way.

[AustinSchuh]

What if we bribed you with cookies?

I bet krispy kremes would work a lot better.

[Cyberphil]

A few of the kids on our team and I were discussing the possible game pieces and we came up with two very interesting ones:

A safety cone: It has many different angles and would provide a very interesting challenge for all of the teams to lift/move

A 50 Gallon Barell: Another large game piece that would provide a difficult challenge considering it is not spherical

Both of these pieces would be interesting, and I would love to see them in action!

[Bruceb]

Still waiting for stair climbing to be part of the game.
Bruce

[EricH]

For someone with a rookie year of 2004, you seem to have forgotten that 2004 had stairs... 3*2", or 1*6", with an extra 6" step on top of that for extra height. Some teams did in fact use the 2" stairs, while many did the 6" ones.

[JohnFogarty]

ROBOT RELAY RACE!!!! completing different missions....crap that's too much like FLL..

[unionylibertad]

^ i wont say that's a bad idea...maybe frc could borrow concepts from its younger sibings

[Bjenks548]

I think its way more fun to watch the frc games that score like sports, as apposed to watching a robot do missions (no offense to FLL I'm mentoring one of those). I just think that there needs to be more scoring in the games, Lunacy's big moon rocks dumps were really exciting as opposed to scoring 1 point at a time in Breakaway.

[dag0620]

Lunacy's big moon rocks dumps were really exciting as opposed to scoring 1 point at a time in Breakaway.

While I agree games like you described are probably the gems of the games FIRST has had, even though Breakaway was low scoring it was still had high energy. With the use of defense and Robots often in almost "mini wrestling matches" it was probably one of the best games I've seen since I first started watching FRC games years ago.

My $0.02

[chemipanda]

We have been talking on our team and we think its gonna deal more with the camera and recognizing colors and doing something with those colors

[Chris is me]

Lunacy was honestly really, really boring compared to Breakaway. In Lunacy, scores were rarely close enough for a single action to sway the game, and you couldn't tell if that action was important enough anyway. Breakaway very naturally grew in excitement as the match progressed, starting with a strong autonomous mode and building up to the end game final scores or hangs.

[Zandashia 2420]

so possibly there is a pattern. We have did so many professional sports. I suppose the next one will be similar to hockey, football, or maybe even golf. however this game will be complex with a zillion features

[blackiceskier]

so possibly there is a pattern. We have did so many professional sports. I suppose the next one will be similar to hockey, football, or maybe even golf. however this game will be complex with a zillion features

Its going to be related to tennis

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Its going to be related to tennis

Tennis (or for that matter, any sport tracking a fast moving object) could be quite difficult (and fun :D )

[Mike Schroeder]

according to The Home Depot customer order system, you can expect a few traffic cones, 3/4" 45degree PVC elbows and one string of LED christmas lights being delivered to 200 bedford street sometime soon.

[Grim Tuesday]

according to The Home Depot customer order system, you can expect a few traffic cones, 3/4" 45degree PVC elbows and one string of LED christmas lights being delivered to 200 bedford street sometime soon.

Why?

[EricH]

Back in 2006, the same Home Depot order system (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41123) showed an order for quite a few mailboxes at about this time, going to the same place. No mailboxes in the game yet.

I believe that said order system has a name:

Big Mike the Bearhugger--or is that Big Mike, AKA, Winnie the Pooh (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/19266)?

[blackiceskier]

GDC post (frcdirector.blogspot.com)

The GDC has posted:


I've bolded the suspicious-sounding parts.

I think that the water game part, the waded part, and the GDC food part were red herrings, but the bacon part... Why would there be any bacon left over? That doesn't make sense... The first floor part seems unnecessary to me, maybe it's hinting at a multi-storied game?

The left over part and the bacon stick out the most to me.
bacon, pig, pig skin= football for a game piece and in 1995 the FRC game was ramp and roll which used a field goal as a scoring place which could be referring to the LEFTOVERS. 2011 also brings to us the 45 super bowl which is the most watched sporting event in the USA so this ties in to the spectator friendly atmosphere that FIRST has been trying to get at for a few years.

Maybe FIRST is using LEFTOVER game elements or ideas from other levels of their competitions like imagine something from FLL being made into a FRC game element or the atlas ball from FTC being brought back to make and appearance in the realm of FRC

[Karibou]

I don't know if anyone's made the connection yet, but the title of Bill's latest blog post is "My staff bought me a blue cake." The color of the cake isn't mentioned again.

Now, isn't one of Penn State's colors blue?

(all emphasis mine)

Maybe someone can make something out of this (I sure can't), but I just thought I'd throw that out there..

[BJC]

I don't know if anyone's made the connection yet, but the title of Bill's latest blog post is "My staff bought me a blue cake." The color of the cake isn't mentioned again.

Maybe someone can make something out of this (I sure can't), but I just thought I'd throw that out there..

Ok, I'm going to be that guy... I just can't resist.

Blue... Water Game!

But seriously, I think that either footballs or "weight" type game pieces with two tennis balls connected via pvc would be really cool. Both tricky to handle and having nothing to do with water.

Don't ask me why, I just have intuition.;)

[JaneYoung]

Maybe someone can make something out of this (I sure can't), but I just thought I'd throw that out there..

What he's throwing out there are some crumbs. Blue ones.

[Bjenks548]

"Oh, and as of late last night, we have a game name for 2011! With any luck, we’ll have a game logo by Friday. Let the game hints begin."

This makes me think hes gunna give us hints about the game name

[PAR_WIG1350]

"Oh, and as of late last night, we have a game name for 2011! With any luck, we’ll have a game logo by Friday. Let the game hints begin."

This makes me think hes gunna give us hints about the game name

Maybe he has already released the hint and we haven't found it yet.::rtm::

Begin? Friday? Late?

[youxieshi]

.....................................

[JaneYoung]

^reported

[rcmolloy]

A good point was brought up by Jared341 in the latest BB post about checking out the game manual. He noticed that the coopertition award was in affect yet again for 2011. This award is defined as...

Coopertition™ Award
The Coopertition™ Award celebrates the team that best demonstrates the ability to help their opponents compete. In the inaugural year of the Coopertition Award, the award will be granted to the team that earns the most Coopertition Bonus points during the competition.

In Breakaway, I believe coopertition points were awarded from assists towards getting goals. Now let's all think, what else can assists be used to in regards to games.

Think out side the box instead of games like soccer or basketball...

::rtm::

[EricH]

In Breakaway, I believe coopertition points were awarded from assists towards getting goals. Now let's all think, what else can assists be used to in regards to games.
Uhhh... What?

Coopertition points were given in the coopertition bonus, which was given to the winning team according to the formula CB=2*Losing alliance's unpenalized score.

That's not from "assists towards goals", unless you're thinking of scoring for your opponent (which was legal but risky).

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see a similar Coopertition Bonus next year; it sure seemed to go over better than 2009's G14... And it has just about nothing to do with the game scoring (other than discouraging blowouts).

[rcmolloy]

Uber fail on my part haha. I actually never truly understood the coopertition bonus in the first place but I always believed that it was from assists.

:yikes:

[Chris is me]

The Coopertition Bonus was terrible in my opinion. Not because it encouraged scoring for the other team, but because scoring Coopertition Points was literally the least helpful move a team could make for the other team. In terms of effect on standings, it was actually the most competitive, greediest move. Each score got you 2 and the opponents 0, instead of 1 and 1 for your own goal score. In effect, the winner of the CB was the least coopetive team!

[Tom Ore]

The Coopertition Bonus was terrible in my opinion. Not because it encouraged scoring for the other team, but because scoring Coopertition Points was literally the least helpful move a team could make for the other team. In terms of effect on standings, it was actually the most competitive, greediest move. Each score got you 2 and the opponents 0, instead of 1 and 1 for your own goal score. In effect, the winner of the CB was the least coopetive team!

Which leads us back to 6v0 as the best way to help the 6 teams involved in the match. Any chance the game will be designed to work best as 6v0?

[hg273]

Which leads us back to 6v0 as the best way to help the 6 teams involved in the match. Any chance the game will be designed to work best as 6v0?

Very low. Remember that the GDC amended the game last year to discourage that strategy. Chances are they looked to solve that problem with this year's challenge.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Very low. Remember that the GDC amended the game last year to discourage that strategy. Chances are they looked to solve that problem with this year's challenge.

Either that or they will realize it and be relieved because the feeling that something unknown was overlooked passed and frustrated due to the oversight.

I've had something similar happen to me before. Before I left on a camping trip I was running around trying to figure out why I felt that I was forgetting something. I found out afterwards that it was my underwear::ouch:: . Its a good thing I was only staying for one night.

It's better to forget one's underwear when in the woods than one's safety glasses when in the shop.::safety::

[Tom Ore]

Very low. Remember that the GDC amended the game last year to discourage that strategy. Chances are they looked to solve that problem with this year's challenge.

It will be interesting to see what they do. The coopertition bonus tends to move the qualifying rounds toward high offense. The teams that wanted to showcase their defensive skills generally didn't make the playoffs since their seeding scores were low - but defense was important in the playoffs. My thought was that since the qualifying rounds and playoffs played differently anyway (offense vs defense) maybe the GDC will design a game with this in mind.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Maybe they could add an additional type of match aimed at showing off what the robots can do, at the expense of fewer qualification matches.

[demosthenes2k8]

The whole "two kinds of match" thing sounds interesting - the same game with two alternating sets of "extra" rules would really make it challenging!

I can just imagine it: "OK, this match will have walls A B and C up, and walls D E and F removed. Please wait 10 minutes for a field reset."

Actually, just thinking of that...labyrinth? It'd be awesome!

[dag0620]

The whole "two kinds of match" thing sounds interesting - the same game with two alternating sets of "extra" rules would really make it challenging!

I can just imagine it: "OK, this match will have walls A B and C up, and walls D E and F removed. Please wait 10 minutes for a field reset."

Actually, just thinking of that...labyrinth? It'd be awesome!

I really like the idea of a somewhat changing setup. Yes it could delay reset times substantivity, but if FIRST could find a way to do it fast then I'd be all for it, gives an excellent new challenge as well as forcing robots to use more sensors, epically during Autonomous!

[davidthefat]

I want to see a bigger match up, like 6v6 or 12v12. I think 3v3 is too small. The 3v3 forces individual teams to "fend for themselves". They would have to form alliances, but that alliance ends after the round and chances are you will be put against that team. I personally do not like the competition "model" (I do not know what I shall call it). I think alliances should be made even before the kickoff and have the games be more in depth. So the same alliances are stuck together throughout the competition. So the teams then can make specialized robots while cooperating as a bigger team. So that calls for bigger and deeper games. Now I think that would make things a lot more "fair". Alliances can be set up depending on socioeconomic backgrounds and the amount of experience the teams have. Chances are the veteran teams in richer areas will end up having a better robot.

[demosthenes2k8]

I want to see a bigger match up, like 6v6 or 12v12. I think 3v3 is too small. The 3v3 forces individual teams to "fend for themselves". They would have to form alliances, but that alliance ends after the round and chances are you will be put against that team. I personally do not like the competition "model" (I do not know what I shall call it). I think alliances should be made even before the kickoff and have the games be more in depth. So the same alliances are stuck together throughout the competition. So the teams then can make specialized robots while cooperating as a bigger team. So that calls for bigger and deeper games. Now I think that would make things a lot more "fair". Alliances can be set up depending on socioeconomic backgrounds and the amount of experience the teams have. Chances are the veteran teams in richer areas will end up having a better robot.

I disagree. I feel that, by constantly switching who you're working with, you learn to adapt your strategies to work with others AND to prevent someone who knows your past strategies from using them to stop you.
Also, that would severely limit teams like mine, who go to different competitions every year. Every team in this meta-alliance would have to go to all the same regionals.

[EricH]

You know, David, back in the day (before my time even), alliances were kept secret until 2 minutes or so before each match. FIRST event people knew, but teams just knew that teams W, X, Y, and Z needed to be at the field at time A. How about we go back to that? Oh, and there were only 2-team alliances, if you were wondering.

A year or so later, they went to the format we know and love today. Something about 2 minutes not being enough, or some such triviality.

[Karibou]

Chances are the veteran teams in richer areas will end up having a better robot.

I disagree entirely. Looking 7 miles from my own home, there are quite a few Detroit teams who are doing great, and Detroit as a whole is not in the greatest financial situation. While money can create fancy-looking robots, it does not always create game-winning ideas.

[davidthefat]

I disagree entirely. Looking 7 miles from home, there are quite a few Detroit teams who are doing great, and Detroit as a whole is not in the greatest financial situation. While money can create fancy-looking robots, it does not always create game-winning ideas.

I said "better robot" not "winning robot" on purpose. I totally understand but you have to see that richer schools have access to better opportunities. It might be the difference between a CNC machine and hand drill. Not saying that you can not produce the same work, but you really can't deny that the CNC machine is a lot more "convenient" than hand drilling everything. Now that itself won't give you a winning robot, but the more prototypes you can pump out, the more practice your team can get. The more money you have, the better and more hardware you can buy.

Just my observation. The richer teams tend to have better robots. Now "better" is subjective, but you get the jist of it.

[Chris is me]

A winning robot is the better robot, no matter how it was made or how much it cost.

I wouldn't say the "richer" teams have better robots, mainly because that relies on assuming that certain teams are richer.... and the teams people assume are "richer" are the ones with better robots. Circular logic. I've seen teams with $50,000 budgets miss eliminations at regionals and I've seen teams with $10,000 budgets win it all.

[Basel A]

I said "better robot" not "winning robot" on purpose. I totally understand but you have to see that richer schools have access to better opportunities. It might be the difference between a CNC machine and hand drill. Not saying that you can not produce the same work, but you really can't deny that the CNC machine is a lot more "convenient" than hand drilling everything. Now that itself won't give you a winning robot, but the more prototypes you can pump out, the more practice your team can get. The more money you have, the better and more hardware you can buy.

Just my observation. The richer teams tend to have better robots. Now "better" is subjective, but you get the jist of it.

While it's clear teams with more resources have better chances of excelling in any given year, and I think Kara acknowledges that, I don't think differences in budget necessarily best indicates a team with greater potential for building a better robot. If anything, I'd bet the number of mentors is much more important.

[apalrd]

The whole "two kinds of match" thing sounds interesting.....


What if you had an offensive-defensive role? In autonomous, both teams try to score or capture scoring devices. Whoever leads after autonomous becomes offensive for the rest of the match, whoever lags after auto becomes defensive for the rest of the match. Offender gets number of points scored, Defender gets number of points Offender attempted but failed to score (Offender got the scoring device from the human player or other non-defender accessible way, but failed to score it). During auto, only offensive points are counted for the purposes of determining who leads after auto. Multipliers for both teams would be nice, in the form of doing some extra action to get bonuses.

What if there was a bridge, like 2001? Offenders acquire and fill the goals, that is enough to get points. The robot has to actually load the goal, not the HP. If the offender balances the goal(s) on the bridge (with or without them also on it) they get a multiplier. If the defender balances on the bridge, they get a bonus. (due to the nature of bridge-balancing, it would be very hard to balance if a defender is also on and driving around, wrecking havok to the cg of the bridge. This would require a defensive offender, who's purpose is to out-defend the defensive robots (keep them off the bridge while the main robot balances it). The act of balancing an empty goal is OK too, if you are unable to manipulate game pieces, but gets you fewer points.

The issue comes when neither team does anything in auto, or both teams are equal in score.

I bet you didn’t know we do that to make sure the kit can accommodate the game.

I think this means that the game includes a movable trailer, and they included a device to latch onto the trailer for us. Probably a simple passive device (gate latch?) which can be used with its faults, improved upon, or redesigned from scratch.

[NickE]

The issue comes when neither team does anything in auto, or both teams are equal in score.Coin flip on the screen (like the ball randomizer in 2008).

[Robert Cawthon]

The whole "two kinds of match" thing sounds interesting - the same game with two alternating sets of "extra" rules would really make it challenging!

I can just imagine it: "OK, this match will have walls A B and C up, and walls D E and F removed. Please wait 10 minutes for a field reset."

Actually, just thinking of that...labyrinth? It'd be awesome!

Neat idea. I like the idea of a changable labyrinth.

To make a field reset faster for a changing labyrinth, they could require smaller bots and a half sized field. This would allow the traditional field to be split into two fields. Set up one side while the other side is being played on. Just a thought. Remember, the size of the bot can be changed with a change of the rules. :D

[Dominator1619]

Maybe we all are over looking the cake part of bills blog post. Could hint towards game piece shape ( general thoughts of cake shapes are square/rectangle ) or even multiple phases of the game ( like multilayer cake or multiple tier cakes ). Or even different parts of the game and how they're different but yet all important. With cakes you have the your cake (obviously) base frosting, border, and secondary decorations.

[demosthenes2k8]

Maybe, going off of Dominator's ideas, different robots in each alliance have different tasks?

(I'm like Nostradamus: I keep guessing in hopes that something's somewhat right.)

[PAR_WIG1350]

maybe blue cake is just what the surface of the field is made out of

[andgordo558]

Idk, but it seems we're due for another shape... Before we had the tetras and recently we've had the balls so...?

[apalrd]

...Squares time?

[dag0620]

You know what hasn't been done really (at least recently) pentagon, hexagon, octagon etc. shapes....

[theprgramerdude]

Balls and Tetrahedrals combined???? Spikey balls? Rounded tetrahedrals?

[Robert Cawthon]

You know what hasn't been done really (at least recently) pentagon, hexagon, octagon etc. shapes....

Although not written in stone (or aluminum), the game pieces tend to be variations of the FIRST logo shapes, triangle, square, and circle. If they are going to deviate from this, I vote for footballs. Punt, pass, and kick anyone?

[FIRSTtm134]

One word.

...

Frisbees.

[joek]

Although not written in stone (or aluminum), the game pieces tend to be variations of the FIRST logo shapes, triangle, square, and circle. If they are going to deviate from this, I vote for footballs. Punt, pass, and kick anyone?

tackle, touch, or flag?

i like labyrinth, or a robotic sumo match would be cool
One word.

...

Frisbees.

that might end badly, like concussion badly

[demosthenes2k8]

Crap. Now all I can think about is "You remind me of the bot. What bot? The bot with the power. What power? The power of YouTube. Who do? You do. Do what? Remind me of the bot."

I don't think the pattern's really held in the last four years. Three ball games and tubes. Circles, all.

(I also hope Dean doesn't actually give away part of the game before the actual Game animation, like he did this year.)

[PAR_WIG1350]

One word.

...

Frisbees.

Yes:D! but made out of foam::safety::

[cjackson]

One word.

...

Frisbees.

Our team is actually making our practice bot into a frisbee catcher so that we can work on learning to use the cameras and such.

[dag0620]

(I also hope Dean doesn't actually give away part of the game before the actual Game animation, like he did this year.)

Yess!!! Halfway through the speaches we could all tell it was soccer based. I think we all say we want to know the game ahead of time, but haveing gotten this close to knowing, don't ruin it for me until the animation!!!!!

[Karibou]

Well, Bill mentioned Pennsylvania in his newest blog post, titled "The view from 30,000 feet"

My newest guess is that it will involve dropping tennis balls into something. I don't know what Pennsylvania has to do with it, but it is called "the keystone state," which makes me wonder...

[Radical Pi]

Taking a slightly different approach to the blog, I'm running off of the title "The view from 30,000 feet". According to wikipedia, mount everest has a max elevation of 29,029 ft. Looking for links between Pennsylvania and everest, the only thing I can turn up is a University of Pennsylvania leadership trek (http://leadership.wharton.upenn.edu/everest/index.shtml) to the mountains that has gone to everest from 1998-2001 and 2003. What does this mean? I have no idea

[andgordo558]

With the Classmate and camera's finally being standard equipment for everyone, I think they should make a game where the bonus round requires the camera and driving from the camera.

Like submarine ROV's and robots in space sometimes the only feedback you have is what the camera is telling you. I would like to see a bonus round where they drop a curtain in front of each driver station, and then you have to manipulate a game piece or do something else difficult based only on your video feed.

As an alternative, they could have some sort of enclosure in the middle of the field where some game pieces are and the only way you can play with them is to have a camera on the end of your manipulator.

I would suspect this sort of game design feature would be coming soon.

That seems like a great idea, however the cameras don't seem to be up to speed yet (ours sent back approx. 1 frame per 10 sec. of time...:()

[Radical Pi]

That seems like a great idea, however the cameras don't seem to be up to speed yet (ours sent back approx. 1 frame per 10 sec. of time...:()

Were you trying image processing? On ours once the graphs were removed from the dashboard the camera was at a perfectly acceptable speed