anyone have any ideas about next years game?

[NyCityKId]

so yeah... i know its a bit early but its never to early to start brain-storming right?

[Fireworks 234]

so yeah... i know its a bit early but its never to early to start brain-storming right?

You said it all right there :p The game isn't even finished yet :rolleyes:


Edit: Yay 200th post!

[ADZDEBLICK]

water game...

[gvarndell]

No wheels -- hover craft.
A hockey-like game?

[chmconkling]

well what something big (big in history big in sports big in science etc) that will tell u the type of game were going to have

[MarkoRamius1086]

A football oriented game? The elliptical balls would prove a worthy challenge to deal with!

[ADZDEBLICK]

probably a variation of another mainstream sport (already did soccer, basketball, nascar)
mountain climbing?

I could see football but the GDC would have to write the rules to prevent excessive robot damage and Juggernaut teams (flying V robots).

[gvarndell]

well what something big (big in history big in sports big in science etc) that will tell u the type of game were going to have

I would like to suggest that, if English is not your first language, make note of that in your sig.

[JohnFogarty]

Golf ROBOT GOLF......your robot must hit small white balls into holes and be able to act like Tiger Woods.. xD

[Jon Stratis]

given the huge explosion in Minnesota teams over the past few years... I think the game will be based on hockey :)

[thefro526]

Golf ROBOT GOLF......your robot must hit small white balls into holes and be able to act like Tiger Woods.. xD

*Begins working feverishly on an automated fist-pumping mechanism*

All jokes aside, I'd really like to get through this season before someone throws another game at me.

[EricH]

I'm just going to go ahead and start discussion of the 2013 game, if you don't mind...

Seriously, it gets earlier and earlier every year. But we as teams will know little or nothing until next January. Sure, it's fun to speculate. But to do that while well over a third of the teams still have at least one event left is just a little premature...

[sircedric4]

With the Classmate and camera's finally being standard equipment for everyone, I think they should make a game where the bonus round requires the camera and driving from the camera.

Like submarine ROV's and robots in space sometimes the only feedback you have is what the camera is telling you. I would like to see a bonus round where they drop a curtain in front of each driver station, and then you have to manipulate a game piece or do something else difficult based only on your video feed.

As an alternative, they could have some sort of enclosure in the middle of the field where some game pieces are and the only way you can play with them is to have a camera on the end of your manipulator.

I would suspect this sort of game design feature would be coming soon.

[MarkoRamius1086]

Or a massive tunnel in the middle of the feild! Like covering the entire middle section!

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Oh, c'mon. We all know it'll involve Krispy Kremes and Red Herrings :D

[NyCityKId]

Golf ROBOT GOLF......your robot must hit small white balls into holes and be able to act like Tiger Woods.. xD

so we are going to have to build adulterous robots??? :O!!!

[NyCityKId]

probably a variation of another mainstream sport (already did soccer, basketball, nascar)
mountain climbing?

I could see football but the GDC would have to write the rules to prevent excessive robot damage and Juggernaut teams (flying V robots).

Hmmmm mountain climbing would be pretty interesting but i wonder how they would make that a team sport?

as for football: it would be pretty cool but i think that game is a bit too human oriented... but then again that makes it a better challenge.

[ErichKeane]

No wheels -- hover craft.
A hockey-like game?

So last year (on the regolith) my co-mentor and I came up with a fantastic idea for a game: Roomba Hockey.

Basically, the floor is regolith/low friction stuff. Maybe even worse than regolith if they could manage. The game pieces are Roombas with everything but the driving parts removed.

The goal of the game would be to corral the roombas into a section of the field... which they could then drive out of, or be removed from by a competitor.

Think slippery "hungry hungry hippos" except the balls can escape and be stolen!

[Dancin103]

Really already?!? lol

[Epic]

We all know it is going to be BattleBots.

[Basel A]

You have to collect shrubberies. Bonus points for cutting down the tallest tree in the forest with a herring.

[Zach O]

I hear they're taking an old game and redesigning it. They say it's gonna be the best game yet! It's called "Moonacy!" :D

And just because... water game!?

[,4lex S.]

This forum needs a rule that disallows this discussion before the end of Atlanta... is that even possible?

I mean, I don't think the GDC is going to give a legitimate hint before the end of Atlanta anyways. And we need something to speculate off of, or it just spirals into another water game thread :rolleyes:.

[Fireworks 234]

Maybe it'll be a bumperless year!!! :ahh: :ahh: :ahh:

Nah...FIRST likes those things too much...

[ALTrammell818]

The god bot will have sails.

[JohnFogarty]

hmmm, no one has said baseball?? Tech robots are doing that now. It would me kinda fun, but maybe too easy. We need another Pyramid game, but from what I hear that game was toooo violent lol.

[nikeairmancurry]

20th Year anniversity...
Take year one, and modify it for year 20.... Be cool

[kevin.li.rit]

Dodgeball game. You can score by hitting another robot with a ball or catching a ball. If your bot gets hit, it gets disabled for like 5 seconds. If you catch it, the other robot gets disabled and any disabled teammates get re-enabled.

[EricH]

20th Year anniversity...
Take year one, and modify it for year 20.... Be cool
That's a corny idea. Literally.

(Maize Craze was played on a corn field. Yes, you heard that correctly.)

[kevin.li.rit]

That's a corny idea. Literally.

(Maize Craze was played on a corn field. Yes, you heard that correctly.)

So are we going to get rid of our wireless adapters and run tethers overhead?

[Wildcat]

whatever it is its gonna be better than this year

[Koko Ed]

Robot Curling.
Canada rejoices as they beast every event they enter.

[Dkt01]

Maybe the last 20 seconds of teleop will be done in complete darkness. Teams are forced to use onboard sensors or night-vision cameras (in 2011 KOP???).

Or, maybe autonomous will become more important than just the first 20 seconds. Maybe teams will receive bonus points for scoring in a 30 second autonomous mode.

Whatever the game is, January can't come soon enough.

[JohnFogarty]

whatever it is its gonna be better than this year
AGREED TIMES 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[nikeairmancurry]

AGREED TIMES 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I think many are starting to disagree with that statement.... The tournements, being played espically in michigan, are some of the best I've seen in 2 years. Watching teams to try to come up with plans of attack agasint hardcore teams (469), is something you havent seen in two years. A robot can dominate and people will come to watch that one robot play. Atlanta finals are gonig to be nuts, and probably x20 times more exciting than last year!! In this game you can't have 30 point blowouts in elmiations..1 point can make the difference.. Plus we will see the best hangers from around the world on the same field..

[ALTrammell818]

So are we going to get rid of our wireless adapters and run tethers overhead?

Ahh of course. Back to tethers. :rolleyes:

But seriously people, how do you not enjoy Breakaway?

[Koko Ed]

AGREED TIMES 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I think Breakaway may be the best game FIRST has had since 2006. Especially in the elims.
Now if only they haven't gone for that ranking system (even "improved" it's still kinda dopey. Gimmie W-L-T any day).

[JohnFogarty]

I liked OverDrive the best,

[MarkoRamius1086]

Dodgeball game. You can score by hitting another robot with a ball or catching a ball. If your bot gets hit, it gets disabled for like 5 seconds. If you catch it, the other robot gets disabled and any disabled teammates get re-enabled.

Yeah! Now that is going to be an epic game! I have also seen many posts on this thread and many others about having... a semi-autonomous as the End Game. This seems like a really neat idea... and one that has a good chance of being implimented. I only wonder how they will manage to pull off a houdini on the drivers... besides having a massive curtain go over the drivers stations.

Another trend of posts I have seen allot of, is how bad this year is. I personally love this year. And really(!), how could you say something like that after last year? Lunacy? This year adds a whole new challenge with the bumps. (Though I do understand the difficulty has been hard on many teams (including mine) due to the weather).

[NyCityKId]

guess it wasn't pointless after all... lol. I personally liked breakaway and watching all the other competitors tackle the multiple challenges in there own unique way. unfortunately it was a little too hard for my team. but i do know one thing: Next year I"m going to take on a leadership role and make sure everyone knows about 1601. whatever the game is we'll be ready (puts on determined face)

[kwotremb]

I really didnt think this years game was going to be all that great at first, but after watching/competing in some events I think this years game is awesome!

Only idea I have for next years game is the main playing element will not be round, or at least not a nice ball. Just look at events from about 2002 on, even numbered years are a nice ball, odds are not. Only somewhat deviation is last year, but that still was not really a ball.

[De_Code_Master]

Robot Curling.
Canada rejoices as they beast every event they enter.

Haha, we met the brazilian team 1772 at Palmetto. Their bot last year was kinda nonfunctional, but they BEASTED this year, making it all the way to finals after ranking 6th. Hmm...:p

I'm seeing a pattern: last year basketball, this year soccer. Perhaps next year baseball? Maybe robots have to catch balls and drive to certain areas with them. Or even tennis (prepares to bring a ball feeding machine to competition).
I bet the GDC's already bookmarked this thread. For the sake of seeing a robot using bumpers as floaties: Water Game!

[ttldomination]

I think that there are major themes that FIRST tries to go by. Last year, scoring balls, wasn't anything spectacular, it was the regolith flooring that made the game correlate with a major lunar accomplishment.

Likewise, this year, it was soccer with a twist in accordance with the FIFA world cup coming up.

It seems that FIRST is starting to go out and get inspiration from this going on around the world, and in that manner, they develop the game. But I think it is *impossible* to guess the twist that the GDC adds to each game.

Like if you tell someone we're playing soccer, there's nothing overly hard about that. If you show them the field and tell them about a couple of the rules, then the entire game changes.

We can really only wait and see what the GDC keeps pumping out.

[NyCityKId]

*sigh* I know I'm going to sound stupid asking this, but: what does "GDC mean?....

[bassoondude]

HANDBALL!!!

[bassoondude]

*sigh* I know I'm going to sound stupid asking this, but: what does "GDC mean?....
I believe it means "Game Design Commision", but im not positive.

[EricH]

*sigh* I know I'm going to sound stupid asking this, but: what does "GDC mean?....
Game Design Committee.

Better known as the group of evil geniuses that we all want to graciously professionally beat up sometime during build season because of X rule that we absolutely hate for whatever reason.

[NyCityKId]

Game Design Committee.

Better known as the group of evil geniuses that we all want to graciously professionally beat up sometime during build season because of X rule that we absolutely hate for whatever reason.

LOL!

i think first goes a little too far with the safety thing. they say most of these rule are for safety but i think they just like to get on our nerves. for example: why limit the amount of motors we can use?

[EricH]

i think first goes a little too far with the safety thing. they say most of these rule are for safety but i think they just like to get on our nerves. for example: why limit the amount of motors we can use?
Equal power. Think about it: I buy 20 CIMs and use all of them on one robot. That robot could easily tear itself apart (assuming that the battery didn't drain instantly or something of that nature), damaging everything around. Or, it could outpush and outrun every other robot out there and do a few other things while it was at it--with a single-speed drive and the right wheels.

By limiting the number and type of motors, the maximum power is roughly equalized for everyone, pneumatics being the "roughly" part. Imagine competing at sumo wrestling against a pro sumo wrestler, and that's what could happen if you put the quantity of motors to unlimited.

[NyCityKId]

and that's what could happen if you put the quantity of motors to unlimited.

i sortof get your point. but on the flip side everyone could go out and buy 20 cims and that might actually be pretty awesome to see 6 robots reach running around with 20 cims.

in any case maybe the motor example wasn't the best point....

[Justin Montois]

Robot Curling.
Canada rejoices as they beast every event they enter.

1114 does this already...;)

[Daniel_LaFleur]

i sortof get your point. but on the flip side everyone could go out and buy 20 cims and that might actually be pretty awesome to see 6 robots reach running around with 20 cims.

in any case maybe the motor example wasn't the best point....

Yes and no. It would create a sort of arms race, and is not something that, I believe, FIRST wants to do.

Another reason for it is it's a design challange. Using less than optimal motors to do specific tasks means improvisation and innovation ... both are good things IMHO.

[BJC]

I think that it will not have balls as game objects because they used balls the last 3 years.
I also think they won't model after another sport.

I hope they make a game that allows for very creative out of the box robots. Many this year are boxes.

[NyCityKId]

Yes and no. It would create a sort of arms race, and is not something that, I believe, FIRST wants to do.

Another reason for it is it's a design challange. Using less than optimal motors to do specific tasks means improvisation and innovation ... both are good things IMHO.

well said, point taken... but i guess that means they do try to drive us crazy >_<

[bobwrit]

I liked breakaway, because of all the strategy that was involved in it. I'd hope they continue to produce games with a lot of strategy. I'd imagine that the GDC would go with a combination game for FIRST's 20th year(combination of past games).

[NyCityKId]

I liked breakaway, because of all the strategy that was involved in it. I'd hope they continue to produce games with a lot of strategy. I'd imagine that the GDC would go with a combination game for FIRST's 20th year(combination of past games).

over-break-acy and roll?

[delsaner]

I think that it will not have balls as game objects because they used balls the last 3 years.
I also think they won't model after another sport.

I hope they make a game that allows for very creative out of the box robots. Many this year are boxes.

Yes, seeing that small balls were used two times in a row makes next years game piece(s) unlikely to be small balls, yet they are easy to work with and they open the door for a lot of creativity and potential. I do not think they will be small balls next year, but I will not be surprised if they are once again.

On the topic of creativity in regards to the robot, I do wish that this game allowed for more different ideas. One of the main reason I enjoyed Lunacy was because there were so many robots with different ways of scoring; I said "Wow, that's clever/ingenious" countless times the first day of competition. This year, it all seems to be the same bot and similar kicker design. The only thing that is different that I still go crazy over is the way each team manages to lift itself. That still drops my jaw. I just think that next year should open the door a little more and allow for more creativity.

$0.02

[NyCityKId]

The only thing that is different that I still go crazy over is the way each team manages to lift itself. That still drops my jaw. I just think that next year should open the door a little more and allow for more creativity

Agreed. This was my first year going to FRC and I saw a few lifters that blew my mind. They showed me what "out of the box thinking" really is.

[ttldomination]

I think that it will not have balls as game objects because they used balls the last 3 years.

That's what I've been thinking for the past 2 years. :P

Although each year, I don't expect another ball game, I'm thoroughly surprised by what the GDC can do with a ball.

[Bruceb]

I have it on good authority that we will be required to launch and retrieve a flying ROV.
Bruce

[Karibou]

Well, let's go to our friends, Wikipedia and Google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011

2011 is...
...the UN's declared International Year of Forests, and International Year of Chemistry.
...the 10th anniversary of 9/11 (and yet, there are two towers on the game field THIS year)
...the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500
...the 150th anniversary of MIT

If anyone decides to actually heavily research events, be on the lookout for other 20th anniversaries :P

[Trevor_Decker]

Well, let's go to our friends, Wikipedia and Google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011

2011 is...
...the UN's declared International Year of Forests, and International Year of Chemistry.
...the 10th anniversary of 9/11 (and yet, there are two towers on the game field THIS year)
...the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500
...the 150th anniversary of MIT

If anyone decides to actually heavily research events, be on the lookout for other 20th anniversaries :P

I do not think they will use MIT, since it would be to partial towards one school. However I would love to see what they would do as an anniversary for MIT.

[Armonious]

I'm always down for another ball game.

Water polo anyone?

Seriously, I would really love seeing a water game, though it should never happen.

[davidthefat]

It better be easy on autonomus robots...

[Ian Curtis]

I do not think they will use MIT, since it would be to partial towards one school. However I would love to see what they would do as an anniversary for MIT.

For what it's worth, the FRC competition is actually based on an MIT class called 2.007 (http://stellar.mit.edu/S/course/2/sp09/2.007/). All MIT engineers (or at least the ones I know) are required to take it, and way back yonder it was taught by Dr. Flowers.

For the record, I want my mobile goals back (see 2004, 2002, 2001). Trailers were cool, but it was more fun when we could fight over them. :)

[Grim Tuesday]

Mobile goals were great for my team in 2004. We were dedicated to latching on, and made sure no one could score past us. We got all the way to Newton,a nd were seeded number 1 until our driver train broke.

I hope that they come up with a new mechanic, since each year there will be a way to totally own the game [469], and I would like to come up with a new way to do it!

[Vermeulen]

FIRST is moving the champs to St. Louis because of it's proximity to the Mississippi River. It's going to be a robot regatta, of course!

Water games aside, though, I think the only way to know for sure would be to kidnap Dave Lavery. (Note: I am not liable for any criminal or civil charges acquired in the process of kidnapping Dave Lavery. Please do not kidnap Dave Lavery.)

Lets see...
30th anniversary of the first space shuttle launch
20th anniversary of the announcement of the Internet
20th anniversary of the announcement of Linux
20th anniversary of the invention of carbon nanotubes

[Thing2_1723]

I do not think they will use MIT, since it would be to partial towards one school. However I would love to see what they would do as an anniversary for MIT.

haha! everyone will be required to bring a robot that can perform hijacks :D

[bassoondude]

Maybe we will have to build an indy car that can do something they do at MIT.

[ttldomination]

Well, let's go to our friends, Wikipedia and Google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011

2011 is...
...the UN's declared International Year of Forests, and International Year of Chemistry.
...the 10th anniversary of 9/11 (and yet, there are two towers on the game field THIS year)
...the 100th anniversary of the Indy 500
...the 150th anniversary of MIT

If anyone decides to actually heavily research events, be on the lookout for other 20th anniversaries :P

Hm...Forests relate to the environment, and that sounds like a theme that is right up FIRST's alley. And so is Chemistry.

9/11 is too touchy of a topic.

I think '08 was really close to racing and I think that's as close as we're gonna get.

And I don't know what they can do with MIT. I mean, that doesn't narrow it down that much, MIT is involved in nearly everything.

[Vermeulen]

Maybe... Teams have to arrange objects labeled with elements to form cellulose. Bonus points for climbing a real tree in the middle of the field.

[NyCityKId]

Maybe... Teams have to arrange objects labeled with elements to form cellulose. Bonus points for climbing a real tree in the middle of the field.

I think we would have a riot on our hands

[seannoseworthy]

What ever the game may be I just want a scoring system that works, a scoring system were people can just understand after watching one match, a scoring system where teams don't score on them selves then ill be happy with what ever the game is. :)

[Daniel_LaFleur]

What ever the game may be I just want a scoring system that works, a scoring system were people can just understand after watching one match, a scoring system where teams don't score on them selves then ill be happy with what ever the game is. :)

The current scoring system doesn't work?

1 pt for a goal. 2 pts for a hang. 3 points for a suspend.

Seems simple and works.


... now if you are talking about the seeding system ... well, just consider it another challange and another thing to overcome (or at least read that section before your first regional :ahh: )

[delsaner]

My only problems are...

-the ball return action that can produce a lot of penalties by a small accident
-the seeding system

These are the only things, in my mind, that need to be modified for next year.

[NyCityKId]

My only problems are...

-the ball return action requires perfection, otherwise there are 10+ point penalties.


What do u mean i the ball return action requires perfection? it seamed pretty simple and straight forward to me... mabye im not understanding what your talking about:confused:

[delsaner]

What do u mean i the ball return action requires perfection? it seamed pretty simple and straight forward to me... mabye im not understanding what your talking about:confused:

I probably worded it wrong. It seems that a lot of penalties are coming from not returning the ball in time. Our team has lost a match or two because of ball return penalties, and I see it happen a lot of times. Sorry for the confusion. I'll edit that.

[TKM.368]

I understand Crown Suppliers have a say in what might be included in subsequent games. This year there is a new Crown Supplier on the block that is very, ahem, involved with FRC...

[NyCityKId]

I understand Crown Suppliers have a say in what might be included in subsequent games. This year there is a new Crown Supplier on the block that is very, ahem, involved with FRC...

Andy Mark? :ahh:

[NyCityKId]

I probably worded it wrong. It seems that a lot of penalties are coming from not returning the ball in time. Our team has lost a match or two because of ball return penalties, and I see it happen a lot of times. Sorry for the confusion. I'll edit that.

Oh ok i see. but i disagree still i think it just took some vigilance on the human players part. i think it adds to the stakes of the game. however, it is kinda depressing to lose a match because u didnt return a ball to the field ontime

[Vermeulen]

Andy Mark? :ahh:

You know, if they made the teeth on their sprockets longer, and strung a whole bunch together, they could make a paddle wheel...

[EthanMiller]

I have a bad idea.

What if... Instead of waiting until next year January for build season, we started designing our own game? How much interest is there? If you're interested, PM me. Based on interest, we can go from there. Of course, we'll have to reuse the KOP from this year, I know my team has no money right now. (Business team takes the off season off. I dunno why.)

[roboraven15]

i really want to see some sort of a king of the hill goal involved in a game. i know it in itself isn't deep enough but maybe if you did like multiple hills and which one to be on top of randomly switches throughout the game, and you combine some other elements or morph with a whole other game maybe.

i would also love to see a field dimension change although that would be pricey, i think a triangle could be pretty cool.

[BJC]

i really want to see some sort of a king of the hill goal involved in a game. i know it in itself isn't deep enough but maybe if you did like multiple hills and which one to be on top of randomly switches throughout the game, and you combine some other elements or morph with a whole other game maybe.

i would also love to see a field dimension change although that would be pricey, i think a triangle could be pretty cool.

I like the current field dementions as it makes for easy viewing. I like the idea of having multible completly different ways to score instead of just one way like most years (not counting bonuses).

Also next year probably won't use normal balls because they seem to rotate years.

2004: Stack Attack :balls
2005:Triple Play:tetras
2006:Aim High:balls
2007:Rack 'n Roll:tubes
2008:Overdrive: balls
2009:Lunacy: poof balls (kind of balls)
2010:Breakaway: balls
2011: ? :not balls

[Lee Reid 3136]

i think a triangle could be pretty cool.

Maybe with a third alliance... That has some potential. But a BJC said it would be hard to watch.

[BJC]

Maybe with a third alliance... That has some potential. But a BJC said it would be hard to watch.

With a third alliance on a triangle field anyone viewing the match would have to look over or through driver station windows that would cover the entire perimeter of the field. Nobody would really be able to see whats going on except the drivers:(

[JohnFogarty]

circle feild?

[Trevor_Decker]

I have a bad idea.

What if... Instead of waiting until next year January for build season, we started designing our own game? How much interest is there? If you're interested, PM me. Based on interest, we can go from there. Of course, we'll have to reuse the KOP from this year, I know my team has no money right now. (Business team takes the off season off. I dunno why.)

I think that would be a good idea, and I am interested. However I think that the logistics would be very difficult. yet doable, I think it would be a lot like organizing an off season event.

If we do this we should keep the game very simple and perhaps have a more drawn out build season so it is not as stressful as the normal build season.

who else is interested.

[BJC]

I think that would be a good idea, and I am interested. However I think that the logistics would be very difficult. yet doable, I think it would be a lot like organizing an off season event.

If we do this we should keep the game very simple and perhaps have a more drawn out build season so it is not as stressful as the normal build season.

who else is interested.

Is there really anything stopping this from being a year round sport with the GDC creating spring game too? Or perhaps if the teams came up with it by themselves FIRST would alow teams to borrow the fields for compititions. This would make the next three years of my life! After all basketball, football, soccer, ect have off seasons where they practice. What if instead of teams pursuing their own off seasons projects, the GDC could give a problem that was kind of a lead in into the actual seasons game! This would be so sweet!!!:D :D :D

[NyCityKId]

Woah. I am most definatly liking where this is going. And I am most definatly interested in getting an off season competition going. Do I see a FIRST Robotics Competition rival 10, maybe 5 years down the road? perhaps FIRCDURC? (For Inspiration and Recognition of Chief Delphi Users Robotics Competition)

[apalrd]

@BJC: 2004 was not Stack Attack (that was tim and jim's least favorite year and Mom's only year - 2003), it was FIRST Frenzy, but it was a ball game. 2003 was a non-ball game). Also, @ your last comment, we have OCCRA for that. With only like 5 pages of rules total, student-built requirements, and no bumpers (full contact!).

I like the idea of modifying the alliances a little bit. Anyone remember how 2001 was a 4v0 game where everyone worked together, against no-one (they did everything based on time). I can't see them changing any time soon based on the field layout, except maybe moving 4v4 or something (and removing the human players at the ends).

I really really want a non-ball game. I hate ball games, because (with the exception of 2008) the ball game robots look less exciting then those that don't handle balls.
Look at 33's past robots.
2000 was short enough to go under the goal, yet extended with a billion-segment (actually, it was no more than 5 segments) elevator, to score and hang.
2001. Shortest 33 robot that still exists (nothing past 2000 is remembered by most). It hooked to two goals with its double-headed design, and dragged fallen robots off the ramp with some hooks that could be lowered on the front. Back in this time there was no autonomous mode, no bumpers, no CIM motors, and a PBASIC processor with 63 bytes of variable space, yet it still made it to finals on Einstein without problems.
2002. Large robot that collected soccer balls, first 33 bot to have honeycomb, and had an articulated chassis to lift the goal off the ground after it was latched (it jacked up the rear wheels to lift instead of moving the hitch). This robot had sorta-bumpers as part of the goal hitch, but they were part of the robot, unlike now.
2003 has a giant arm to stack boxes, and when the arm is down forward it can do "death spirals" where all of the wheels are off the ground but the front pair. From these days came the "happy feet" to climb a wire mesh ramp, PBASIC autonomous mode, PIC Co-Processor to count encoder clicks and feed them via DAC into an ADC on the PBASCIC controller, and no bumpers.
2004 bot. It was known as a refrigerator, because it was a giant box on wheels. The least exciting robot we have.
2005: They stacked semi-large heavy tetras on odd-shaped goals, using crazy manipulator arms that moved with many joints to pickup and place tetras. Ours has an arm with two joints and a pneumatic-actuated three-fingered hand (the middle finger is separate from the other two; great for victory motions). This robot has bumpers on the front and rear, although they are not the pool-noodle type we have now.
2006: Rolling boxes with turreted (or non-turreted) shooters, a storage mechanism, and a rule that prevents extension above 60" (the starting height). Like 2004, you see rolling boxes, although these actually do something cool. Ours had a rotary ball sorter.
2007: Tubes on a rack. Like 2005, we see manipulators of many sorts, with roller claws, gripper claws, and other claw designs on multi-jointed arms, elevators, and other crazy contraptions. It looks cool. Ours has a sweet arm with three joints (a shoulder and elbow on the main axis, and a wrist rotation on the end), and a pneumatic claw. Unlike this and last year, there are no limits on where you can touch opponents robots, and bumpers are not required.
2008 was similar. Manipulator arms for really big game pieces. We had an elevator where the top roller on the ball fell back to go under the overpass. It looks cool and drives fast.
Then we come to 2009. This is my least-favorite game. Many robots that can't extend out of their starting box driving around and shooting moon rocks into trailers. There was some excitement, but not much. Many robots closely followed a few designs, and the robots don't demo quite as well as we want, especially with slick wheels (other than that they are pretty cool to demo though).
2010: Lots of short robots with kickers. Some have hanging mechanisms, some are better than others. Not much special in most, but some can hang or manipulate balls well and excell.


2011: I hope we have another year with robots that get bigger than they start. Something like 2007 or 2005 would be ideal for me, but something that makes teams think outside the box and where the GDC does not decide what people should/will/must build to manipulate the game pieces, as the large number of rules this year required a ball manipulator basically be a kicker of sort. Maybe the scoring should be simple like this year, but any bonuses should be worth more than 2 points. If we want to build a giant 5-jointed arm to pickup a soccer ball via 6-fingered servo-actuated hand and to gracefully pickup a ball or build a catapult to whip the balls across the field (with limits on ball speed to prevent damage, of course) why can't we?


I've been thinking, why doesn't the GDC combine elements from previous games into a "best of the best" game? Giant moving goals (2002) + giant game pieces (2005-2007-ish) + big bonuses (2007, 2004) + terrain (2001,2003,2004,2010) would be ultimate. Except designing a robot to lift really heavy goals with large PVC rings over teeter-totters or over bumps would be a pain to design and build, so you they could do something like "score large PVC rings on your alliances moving rack to get points, then move it to a platform to get more points, then elevate yourself off of it for even more points, plus a bonus if you're elevated on it while it is on the platform." so you don't have to do it all. You could have robots that specialize in doing one thing well, like scoring on the rack or moving the rack to the platform. You could have defensive robots that move the rack somewhere else to make it harder to score, like moving the rack off the platform or scoring negating rings. What could rookie teams do with kitbots? Probably nothing with a kitbot by itself, but building a single-jointed manipulator arm would be fairly easy and could do a decent amount, scoring on low levels of the rack, plus they could make it strong enough to lift the robot off the goal as well. What could more experienced teams with better manufacturing capabilities do? multi-jointed arms to play game pieces higher up and large hitches on the back to carry racks and lift themselves. How could you make it even better? multi-shaped game pieces (like squares = 4 points, triangles = 3 points, circles = negative 3 points, goal on platform = 10 points, robot hanging off goal = 5 points. The platform could be something to fight for, having room for only two robots and two towers, so other robots have to hang off the side if they want to join, or something like that. @DaveLavery: No vision. The cRio has a hard time with vision, but combined with the rest of the robot systems, it is almost impossible.


As soon as we get a hint, whether from Dave via extra punctuation translated as Morse code or an actual hint, I know we will say it's a water game. And it won't be. But, until the kickoff, we will have no idea. That isn't to say we can't think about what we would like the game to be.

[NyCityKId]

whats OCCRA? and where state is it in?

[Karibou]

whats OCCRA? and where state is it in?
Oakland County Competitive Robotics Association. It's a MI organization, but I know that there are probably similar ones out there in other states.

http://www.oakland.k12.mi.us/Default.aspx?tabid=535

[ComputerWhizIA]

whats OCCRA? and where state is it in?

OCCRA stands for Oakland County Competitive Robotics Association (thus only teams from Oakland Country, MI are involved in it) and it is a robotics competition during the fall months. OCCRA is similar to FIRST since both competitions supply teams with a kit of parts and have a similar schedule (6 weeks of build and then a month of competitions). The biggest difference is that students have to design, build, code, and test their robot and they cannot use advance machining techniques (such as welding or milling) to build parts.

[NyCityKId]

Oakland County Competitive Robotics Association. It's a MI organization, but I know that there are probably similar ones out there in other states.

http://www.oakland.k12.mi.us/Default.aspx?tabid=535

Oh Ok i see well maybe iwe can get something set up in new york. and other states also

[BJC]

OCCRA stands for Oakland County Competitive Robotics Association (thus only teams from Oakland Country, MI are involved in it) and it is a robotics competition during the fall months. OCCRA is similar to FIRST since both competitions supply teams with a kit of parts and have a similar schedule (6 weeks of build and then a month of competitions). The biggest difference is that students have to design, build, code, and test their robot and they cannot use advance machining techniques (such as welding or milling) to build parts.

Although OCCRA is all good and well, I would really love to have a problem/hint by the GDC that has to do with the next years game, which teams would attempt to solve in the off season. For example, if it was this year, perhaps building a drivetrain that could go over elevated terrain would be hinted at. Then the GDC could have made the rest of the game more difficult, because lets face it most of us spent at least the first 2 weeks of build season on a drivetrain that could go over the bump:p . This ideas really growing on me, because I know the GDC would always throw curveballs. For example, if they had done it this year instead of just giving us the bump and telling us to go over it in the off season, they would give us a similar yet different challenge such as going up stairs or something of that sort. Besides most areas don't have opportunities like OCCRA.

[davidthefat]

I want to play football with robots... 7 on 7 may be more appropriate

[HazzardFuzzBomb]

With the Classmate and camera's finally being standard equipment for everyone, I think they should make a game where the bonus round requires the camera and driving from the camera.

Like submarine ROV's and robots in space sometimes the only feedback you have is what the camera is telling you. I would like to see a bonus round where they drop a curtain in front of each driver station, and then you have to manipulate a game piece or do something else difficult based only on your video feed.

As an alternative, they could have some sort of enclosure in the middle of the field where some game pieces are and the only way you can play with them is to have a camera on the end of your manipulator.

I would suspect this sort of game design feature would be coming soon.

I would love the play by only camera function. I'm a fan of the ball games, and they seem to entice the crowd more especially, Though this system of scoring is simple, i was talking to people who were not part of FIRST and were at the competition and were lost on what was going on like
"scoring into your own side"
"how do the points work"

Maybe game of dodge ball or hockey would be amazing, a lot of teams seem to want to take a nice whack at others bots (and doing not very much damage for ::safety::'s sake) and get rewarded for it.

By the way, this is my first time in this type of discussion and have learned one word to make ten posts follow it
"water game!!!"

[NyCityKId]

WATER GAMES FTW!!! O_O :D

[angelawence11]

haha... water game thatd be fun. im thinking glow in the dark (assuming safety would allow it. haha jk.).
something football like would definitely be an interesting challenge. i feel as if lunacy was a mix of basketball and ice hockey, so i think those two are out. breakaways obviously similar to soccer... maybe we could work something baseball-like in ;)
No matter what it is, its gonna be great and I can't wait to see the diversity of next years robots! GO TEAMS!

[NyCityKId]

haha... water game thatd be fun. im thinking glow in the dark (assuming safety would allow it. haha jk.).
something football like would definitely be an interesting challenge. i feel as if lunacy was a mix of basketball and ice hockey, so i think those two are out. breakaways obviously similar to soccer... maybe we could work something baseball-like in ;)
No matter what it is, its gonna be great and I can't wait to see the diversity of next years robots! GO TEAMS!

Baseball would be interesting, but they might stay away from that since this year's FTC had a little to do with baseball. (well they made it seem that way from the Demo Vid)

I think the might do something non-sports based since they've sort of gone through all of the practical sport already... well at least the sports I can think of.

[DarkFlame145]

I know one thing for sure............. it will NOT be a water game

[spacewolfx]

How can you be sure it won't be a water game?

I, for one, think that a water game is very feasible (sorry if i did not spell that right). It would prove to be a tough challenge and very interesting to play in.

[NyCityKId]

How can you be sure it won't be a water game?

I, for one, think that a water game is very feasible (sorry if i did not spell that right). It would prove to be a tough challenge and very interesting to play in.

water games might be interesting for older teams but rookie teams and less experienced teams might have trouble waterproofing. not to mention the safety issues that might come up with a water field.

[Karibou]

How can you be sure it won't be a water game?

I, for one, think that a water game is very feasible (sorry if i did not spell that right). It would prove to be a tough challenge and very interesting to play in.

This idea gets beaten to death every year. The main reasons...
-Cost (pump the water in, make some sort of tank to contain the water, etc)
-Venue availability (no high school gym floor - at the very least - can take hundreds of pounds of water sitting on it for three days straight, and pools aren't exactly spectator-friendly)
-While teams would KNOW how crucial it would be to protect their electronics, there is SUCH a huge chance that something will spark and kill everything.
-Spectator viewing pleasure (or lack thereof)

[WhiteShadow1474]

I think the might do something non-sports based since they've sort of gone through all of the practical sport already... well at least the sports I can think of.[/QUOTE]

we're bringing back the regolith and the robots are going to curl. I'm calling it :cool:

[bobrenjc93]

I LOVE the idea of dodge-ball.

[dag0620]

I'm gonna start a new Movement

Maize Craize 2011 !!!!:cool:




And if you think I'm joking about wanting a new version of this back, your wrong.

[bassoondude]

Maize Craze 2011: Robots must complete a randomly generated corn maze, on a bed of maize.

[Trevor_Decker]

Maize Craze 2011: Robots must complete a randomly generated corn maze, on a bed of maize.

Do you mean 2010?

[NyCityKId]

Do you mean 2010?

I think he meant 2011 since the game would be coming out in 2011. (no sarcasm intended)

[Trevor_Decker]

I think he meant 2011 since the game would be coming out in 2011. (no sarcasm intended)

aw I am sorry, for some reason I thought that next year would be the 2010 game, my fault.


maybe some day I will learn to tell time!

(it is 2010 now, so next year's game will be 2010+1 :confused: )

[NyCityKId]

aw I am sorry, for some reason I thought that next year would be the 2010 game, my fault.


maybe some day I will learn to tell time!

(it is 2010 now, so next year's game will be 2010+1 :confused: )

Lol it's ok. sounds like you just had a brain fart. I do it all the time xD

[AnibaS]

I have a feeling the GDC wouldn't go for a remake of a previous game; Dean's too creative for that! :p

I would like the see a new field design though. Although the rectangular field has been very effective for previous games, it would be nice to have an "out-of-the-box" design!

Spirals and multi-dimensioned?

[delsaner]

I would like the see a new field design though. Although the rectangular field has been very effective for previous games, it would be nice to have an "out-of-the-box" design!
Spirals and multi-dimensioned?

1) I would think the main reason the field is rectangular is because it is easy to work with, and allows for countless possibilities. Whilst a different shaped field would be interesting, I doubt it will be changed.

2) Elaborate on the spiral and multi-dimension idea. These sound interesting, but I'm having difficulty understanding what they are exactly. =/

[AnibaS]

Elaborate. These are interesting ideas, but I'm having difficulty understanding what they are exactly. =/

Just throwing vague ideas out there! :p

Inspiration? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ENw7iuUejMQ/SpWG2upufeI/AAAAAAAAIAA/TsiOts60BEI/s400/up+to+down+spiral+staircase.jpg

1) I would think the main reason the field is rectangular is because it is easy to work with, and allows for countless possibilities. Whilst a different shaped field would be interesting, I doubt it will be changed.

Oh, I agree that is easy to work with, but wouldn't it be a nice challenge for the GDC?

[NyCityKId]

Just throwing vague ideas out there! :p

Inspiration? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ENw7iuUejMQ/SpWG2upufeI/AAAAAAAAIAA/TsiOts60BEI/s400/up+to+down+spiral+staircase.jpg



Oh, I agree that is easy to work with, but wouldn't it be a nice challenge for the GDC?

Definitely an interesting idea I like the idea of multi-dimensional fields that would be a challenge. It would also require better communication skills. Ooo and maybe 4 team alliances and 3 minute matches instead of 2 *o*

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I'm gonna start a new Movement

Maize Craize 2011 !!!!:cool:




And if you think I'm joking about wanting a new version of this back, your wrong.

I can see it now, rooster tails of corn kernals ... and exploding gearboxes as the kernals jam the gears :ahh:

[JohnFogarty]

....ROBOT TENNIS!!!!! :D

It's not a bad idea, team with the least balls on their side wins.

[dag0620]

....ROBOT TENNIS!!!!! :D

It's not a bad idea, team with the least balls on their side wins.

Maize Craze was played with Tenis Balls! :D

[JohnFogarty]

See i do win.......I'm still for the robo-Golf thing it would be slightly different.

[bassoondude]

Definitely an interesting idea I like the idea of multi-dimensional fields that would be a challenge. It would also require better communication skills. Ooo and maybe 4 team alliances and 3 minute matches instead of 2 *o*

The field design would be cool if you had it digitally printed on the normal rectangle field. And I seriously doubt the game time will be extended because it already takes forever to get one match done, any longer would take too long. At a regional with 34 teams, 63 qualifying matches took a day and a half. with an added minute to the matches, you would add over an hour to the qualifying matches, which already end really late. Also, with a longer game we can expect a more complex game, which will probably result in a longer reset time, which could add 1+ more hours to the qualifiers time.

[bassoondude]

I just had an amazing idea: multi level laser tag. The robots would be armed with lasers of some sort, and sensors for the lasers. The GDC would have to design a field with a lot of hiding places and make sure everyone had a working camera, but with a little bit of work this would be a really fun game.

[dag0620]

One thing I do want (If we have Maize Craze or not next year :P) is a 30 second Autonomous. FTC gets it, so why cant we. I feel that those extra 15 seconds could allow Autonomous to become even more important then it already is.

[AnibaS]

One thing I do want (If we have Maize Craze or not next year :P) is a 30 second Autonomous. FTC gets it, so why cant we. I feel that those extra 15 seconds could allow Autonomous to become even more important then it already is.

I would like to see this as well. Many teams this year had no autonomous, sadly :\

[dag0620]

I would like to see this as well. Many teams this year had no autonomous, sadly :\

I agree, It was about the only main-stream job I had for the entire build season (I was constantly helping solve problems with other programmers) and many on the team never took it as sirusly as i wish they did (It was considered something to take care off when all else was said and done :( ) to go to regionals and too see whole teams just ignoring it made me pretty sad.

[NyCityKId]

I agree, It was about the only main-stream job I had for the entire build season (I was constantly helping solve problems with other programmers) and many on the team never took it as sirusly as i wish they did (It was considered something to take care off when all else was said and done :( ) to go to regionals and too see whole teams just ignoring it made me pretty sad.

I third that. A longer autonomous mode makes it seem more like a robot and less like a giant radio controlled car.

[fuzzy1718]

Whatever the game is, it will have a semi-easy to build field (I don't want to be the one to cut out spirals) and the game pieces will be readily available to all teams. That has kinda been a theme the last two years... Walmart just sucks at holding up their end:p For next year I have a feeling we will see the return of robot to robot end game bonus. It was kinda there this year, and it was definatly there in 2007. Maybe a game piece that is in an area that two robots have to work together to get at for the end game bonus?
I agree about the auton, the past few years there really hasn't been any benefit to doing it.
I'd love to see the return of steps, or a pit that is impossible to cross other than by another robot turns into a ramp and you climb over.
Definatly the return of bigger robots and extending outside of the start configuration during the match.
No more games where if you control one postition on the field you control the whole game!!! please!!!

[CalTran]

Ok, so, our team actually has had a few jokes about a laser-tag robot. Metal Mustangs did a few team bonding games of laser-tag and each time we come, we've always wanted to make a robot to play too. Maybe it's not such a bad off-season project after all...

And also, I really like the idea of a multi-leveled field. It would almost add a requirement of a camera, as well as a small athletic portion (running up and down to follow and get a good view of where your robot is).

Just a Frosh $0.02

[JohnFogarty]

we can't have lasertag robots...we dont want this competition to end up looking like this http://besttoysguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/toy_ultimatebuzzlightyearrobot.jpg

[bassoondude]

we can't have lasertag robots...we dont want this competition to end up looking like this http://besttoysguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/toy_ultimatebuzzlightyearrobot.jpg

That was my inspiration for the entire idea. jk

[oddjob]

First ask ourselves what worked and didn't work with this years game, and build from that.

This years game had a great autonomous and end of game bonus. Splitting the field into three was interesting and it worked well with this game, but the game wouldn't have been much better or worse if the bumps were removed. In fact, I'd like to see the game with no humps and more robot movement around the field. I haven't seen a real soccer field with two big humps in it? Simplicity is a big virtue with the casual spectator that shows up just for the Saturday and doesn't know all the rules (sponsors!). There was a clear offense and defense to the game, and that's good because it fits with most peoples idea of what a competitive game is. The ball return dookickey was interesting, in that it ensured that returned balls were further away from the scorers goal and it was a kind of alliance equalizer.

Assessing the elevation/suspension bonus needed to take some time, and the added drama there wasn't necessarily a bad thing but it could maybe have been automated e.g. have the robots climb a pole and push a big red Bonus button.

The whole penalty situation has got to be fixed. Finding out two minutes after the match is over that a team lost 2 points for stepping out of bounds and changed from a win to a loss, that's pathetic. Either assess and score the penalty as it happens, or don't bother.

This years game gets a high grade from me. It was easy to understand. A good autonomous mode was a real advantage. The end of game bonus was just right, not enough points to negate the previous 2 minutes but it could make a difference. Visually the game was always moving and because "soccer" is low scoring, each goal scored had large significance.

Next years game - 3 on 3 basketball. NBA regulation ball, backboard and hoop (except scored balls get directed to the drivers station). 2 points for a basket. Each alliance has to position at least one robot in defense, one in offense. Balls enter the field overhead to the middle. Autonomous mode is shooting free throws. End of game bonus - slam dunk! (ha ha, not really, needs to be a bit easier). Or, no defense in the last 20 seconds and bonus score for hoops shot from a 3 point line. (maybe 5 points to make it worthwhile). The refs have handheld devices that instantly transmit penalties to the scoreboard.

I didn't think it all through, but there's a good basis there.

[JohnFogarty]

It's already been done......

[JohnFogarty]

though i would like to see robots doing this http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/33000/Robot-Basketball-33146.jpg

[oddjob]

It's already been done......

I'm not familiar with FRC games prior to 2007. Which one is like that?

2010: Breakaway
2009: Lunacy
2008: FIRST Overdrive
2007: Rack 'n Roll
2006: Aim High
2005: Triple Play
2004: FIRST Frenzy: Raising the Bar
2003: Stack Attack
2002: Zone Zeal
2001: Diabolical Dynamics
2000: Co-Opertition FIRST
1999: Double Trouble
1998: Ladder Logic
1997: Toroid Terror
1996: Hexagon Havoc
1995: Ramp 'n Roll
1994: Tower Power
1993: Rug Rage
1992: Maize Craze

[JohnFogarty]

Aim high was a basketball type game.

[oddjob]

Aim high was a basketball type game.


FRC is definitely getting bolder. This year we used REAL soccer balls, not foam balls or some other compromise. A REAL basketball based game would be awesome and present plenty of challenges. There would need to be easier scoring opportunites than only the 10 foot high hoop, etc..

There are other real games to emulate. What about the luge or dressage or rythmic dancing or roller derby? Those are stupid ideas. That's it then, dodgeball it is!

[NyCityKId]

Everyone seems to have a lot of great ideas but the GDC is running out of options as far as sports go. After reading throught the posts I think the GDC will probably do some sort of non-sports based game. If not that then they are going to have to start partially recycling some games. But hey, who am I to say what they can and can't come up with. Maybe they'll blow our minds :D

[Karibou]

I really hope that we won't get a sports-themed game again next year. While 2007 was based off of Tic-Tac-Toe (to my understanding), Overdrive in 2008 was a really unique twist (and it's not something typically thought of as a sport), and 2009 wasn't sports-based at all...it still feels like we've been putting a spin on typical sports for a longgg time.

I'm still all for a recycling-themed game. Cardboard-glass-plastic-paper recycling. Just throwing that out there again.

[fuzzy1718]

2007 was a revamped version of an earlier game toroid terror, I don't remember the year, but the concept was the same. I wouldn't be suprised if we see more of this in the next few years, but with a circe de sole person on the GDC who knows. The possiblities are endles... sort of.

[Rick TYler]

....ROBOT TENNIS!!!!! :D

It's not a bad idea, team with the least balls on their side wins.

A little more like robot volleyball than tennis, but http://www.vexforum.com/wiki/index.php/Clean_Sweep

[JohnFogarty]

dang its already been done :/ lol

[kevin.li.rit]

Its not the first time they used soccer balls.

I still want to see a dodge ball game where you can get points by hitting a robot or catching a ball thrown at you by another robot(but you can only hold one ball). If you get hit you get disabled for a certain amount of time. If you catch a ball your teammates get re-enabled.

Either that or some sort of capture the flag game.

[NyCityKId]

Its not the first time they used soccer balls.

I still want to see a dodge ball game where you can get points by hitting a robot or catching a ball thrown at you by another robot(but you can only hold one ball). If you get hit you get disabled for a certain amount of time. If you catch a ball your teammates get re-enabled.

Either that or some sort of capture the flag game.

I'm trying to picture it but I cant see how dodge ball would work out. The picking up and throwing part would be easy, but the catching would be a whole different story. Not to mention, compared to humans, FRC robots aren't all that agile.

Capture the flag on the other hand is really intriguing. Robots would have to travel to the other alliances side of the field capture the flag and travel back, all while overcoming various obstacles. Maybe something like a tunnel so the robot would have to dip the flag that they're holding in order pass through. or bumps and steps. Another idea is that robots would have to help each other to get the flag. For example, robots are only allowed to extend to 5 feet, but the flags are on top of a 7 foot platform.

Capture the flag is one of those games that the GDC could really let the imaginations run wild with. Which we all know they're good for...

[kevin.li.rit]

I'm trying to picture it but I cant see how dodge ball would work out. The picking up and throwing part would be easy, but the catching would be a whole different story. Not to mention, compared to humans, FRC robots aren't all that agile.

Well, I'm sure some teams can make some very agile robots!

[Radical Pi]

Two words: ROBOT PONG!!! Autonomous mode of hitting hockey pucks across the field, whoever wins autonomous gets to kick the other alliance back and forth across the field, kicked alliance scores by touching the walls at the end of the field. Switches halfway through :D

I have a few ideas for an interesting game. I'd like to see a return of regolith, but in a much more...evil fashion. Instead of an entire field of regolith, we have a "mixed" field, where part of it is regolith and the rest of it is regular carpet. Not sure how scoring would fit in.

Also, I'd love to see some sort of dynamic field, where the scoring method literally changes the placement of a field element. For example, what if there was a moveable ball rack (like in 04) that could be dropped into some place on the field which blocks off that part of the field, such as filling a gap between 2 walls. Any robots which happen to be in that area are trapped until the block is cleared. It can be cleared by doing some difficult task like pulling a high-up lever, or an alliance may opt to send a human player to clear it, which any team can do easily but it uses the pressure pad system from '05 where if you leave the pad (to clear the goal) your robot is disabled until you return to the pad. A nice tradeoff to keep from sacrificing a robot while trying to free another, creating a 1v3 (or hopefully 2v4 :P) situation.

[Robert Cawthon]

The game pieces are Roombas with everything but the driving parts removed.

Why disable the brushes? Keep the floor clean.

What ever it is, lets keep the game simple so it is easy for the audience to understand. I like the volleyball idea. I would also like to be able to play a portion of the game using only the camera, perhaps instead of autonomous.

Also, going to 4v4 would allow for more playing time for each team. Multiple alliances, however, would tend to cause the alliances to gang up two on one. Better to stay with only two alliances but add more players to each alliance.

[Radical Pi]

I would also like to be able to play a portion of the game using only the camera, perhaps instead of autonomous.

I'd prefer finale turning into a blind mode instead of autonomous. Perhaps 2x points for finale scores with camera only?

[TomH]

I'd prefer finale turning into a blind mode instead of autonomous. Perhaps 2x points for finale scores with camera only?

Well, as cool of an idea as that sounds, I think there are some downsides to a blind mode, and the autonomous (for some teams) may be more eventful (good or bad), and because of that, its always stayed. For instance, at this year's Philly Regional, after our first semi-final match, and a timeout due to some issues, we did not top off our pneumatics system, and because of that, during autonomous, we did not score (1 ball scored from the far zone in most attempts), and the game came down to a 8-7 loss for us, and we were eliminated. The autonomous is a big portion of the game, getting rid of it would make teams more reliant on their drivers, and the programmers whom spend time making a autonomous, lose the opportunity to show what they can do in the with code, and only code.

So I don't exactly hate on the idea of a blind finale instead of an autonomous, but this blind period, although something some teams may be already used to, may be a fear to other teams. It would definitely be a challenge if ever put in a game, but also, it would be a portion were some teams may just forget about. I overall think that an autonomous period is very important, and also shows the ability of a robot on its own. Today's real world is more about creating autonomous robots on their own, not people with cameras attached to robots standing 50ft away.

And as of next year's game, can anyone think of any big leaps in man-kind that have happened 5, 10, 15, 20... years ago, think about Lunacy and the Moon landing.

[Chris is me]

When thinking about autonomous ideas, people also have to consider that autonomous is really boring.

If you make autonomous longer, it will make the game boring for longer.

If you put it at the end, it's a really boring finish, plus people will just drive their robots to exactly where they'd need to be for the end game anyway.

[Karibou]

I really hate to rain on parades and shut down ideas quickly, but the possibilities of a blind portion of a game are very slim to none. This idea comes up every year, and the main reasons why it probably won't happen (taking into account the multiple ways that the effect could be achieved, such as curtains over the driver station, over the field, etc.) are:

1. Safety. Safety safety safety. Two robots get entangled and nobody can see it? Sounds like a great way to pull some wires and create smoke (magic or otherwise). Blinding the drivers doesn't enable them to see their robot, so they couldn't see if anything were to begin malfunctioning.
2. Spectators. Probably close to 75% of the people at FIRST events are in the crowd. If they can't see part of the field, then they probably won't be too excited to watch the matches. Also, if the scouts couldn't see the robots, then they can't scout the robots for that portion, and that would be a HUGE blow to a lot of strategy teams.

I like the idea of a blind mode involving robots, but I just don't think that it's right for FIRST.

>.<

[TomH]

When thinking about autonomous ideas, people also have to consider that autonomous is really boring.

If you make autonomous longer, it will make the game boring for longer.

If you put it at the end, it's a really boring finish, plus people will just drive their robots to exactly where they'd need to be for the end game anyway.

I understand that and agree, to some level. If you think about it though, its code controlling the robot, not the driver, and if you think about it, code controlling a robot without live guidance from a driver, is neat, and it shows what robots can do, when you have good code and a good robot. And if your realized it, there are becoming more semi-autonomous ways to score, using a robot and code, and the help of a driver. I don't think autonomous is boring, and maybe the people who think that it is, don't see some of the challenges teams have to face to accomplish this.

And Karibou, I think you're right. One wrong move and one or multiple teams dreams can be ruined

[fuzzy1718]

In light of a recent thread, how about a game where wheels and treads are at a disadvantage to legs? What that would be who knows, but it would be cool. That way advantageous teams could build the legs and the rest could build the wheels. Who knows might open up new doorways for FIRST.

On the note of programming, what about a section where the bots have to lneup and grab something and they have to be really accurate. Then a dotted tape line could be sensed for the robot to line up right. It takes a real world project (cars that automatically stay in their lanes) and turns it into FIRST. Sounds like a win win to me.

[lemiant]

What about limiting transmissions from the drivers station to the robots to once every 2 (or 5) seconds, it would not impede line of sight, it would create the same necessity for autonomous and it would still give beginners a chance to compete, although with less maneuverability.

[dag0620]

What about limiting transmissions from the drivers station to the robots to once every 2 (or 5) seconds, it would not impede line of sight, it would create the same necessity for autonomous and it would still give beginners a chance to compete, although with less maneuverability.

I'm not for it, that would just make things way over complicated - as I often tell my fellow programmers

"Yes you can do it the complicated way and make your self look better, or you can do it the simpler way, and keep your life easy".

Maybe I'm wrong and it could work but its just my $0.02

[bobosalad]

We all know it is going to be BattleBots.

i think they should create a battle bot challenge one year to get it out of everyones systems!!

[theprgramerdude]

I'd like to see a challenge where it's more like a race, but without actually limiting speed like in Overdrive (there were penalties for excessive speed :( ). It would just be a mad dash around the track, maybe with some bumps or obstacles, at top speed, so that the team that puts effort into creating the most efficient, frictionless design would win. Of course, extra bumpers on the edges would be needed for safety.

[GaryVoshol]

... but without actually limiting speed like in Overdrive (there were penalties for excessive speed ... There were? That's news to this referee.

[Karibou]

There were? That's news to this referee.
And to this memorizer-of-rulebooks. I think that the penalties in question were the ones for excessive ramming rather than speed.

[Klynn]

Like submarine ROV's and robots in space sometimes the only feedback you have is what the camera is telling you. I would like to see a bonus round where they drop a curtain in front of each driver station, and then you have to manipulate a game piece or do something else difficult based only on your video feed.



Then the camera's have to have a higher video quality then they are now, so the drivers can see what they are doing and not get DQ or penalties.

If they have a game like this its going to be hard on the drivers. And the control systems will be very complex to be able to move around on the field and teams are going to be needing more parts (who knows). But the it's going to take more time trying to figure out how to drive it with only the camera.

I'm guessing it's going to based around hockey, or some water sport.

-If it explodes, you know it was a techainal error- :eek:

[Klynn]

i think they should create a battle bot challenge one year to get it out of everyones systems!!

They should, it would be cool to see the different designs that teams come up with it. Then maybe some more of the teams schools would come to the competitions and support their team. -daydreams if only LO* would do this-

-If it explodes, you know it was a techainal error- :eek:

* LO= Lake Orion High School

[oddjob]

I don't think autonomous is boring, and maybe the people who think that it is, don't see some of the challenges teams have to face to accomplish this.


Technically, autonomous is challenging and worthwhile. From a spectators point of view, maybe it was boring in 2010. If someone walked in off the street and watched a game, they wouldn't necessarily even know that the robot is doing it's own thing for the first 20 seconds. The end of game bonus this year was exciting. Autonomous was not so much, it was just the regular game played by a program. The GDC could make autonomous more visually appealing but they don't need to make it so difficult that few teams can be successful.

As an example to make it more exciting, in this years game, replace the end of game elevation/suspension bonus with a high mounted momentary switch that has to be hit for points, and let the robots go for the switch in autonomous too. If they screw up and fall over, so sad, too bad, better luck next time. I have no clue if the GDC are satisfied with autonomous or have motivation to change it significantly. I like it but I can see why a spectator might not.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I really hate to rain on parades and shut down ideas quickly, but the possibilities of a blind portion of a game are very slim to none. This idea comes up every year, and the main reasons why it probably won't happen (taking into account the multiple ways that the effect could be achieved, such as curtains over the driver station, over the field, etc.) are:

1. Safety. Safety safety safety. Two robots get entangled and nobody can see it? Sounds like a great way to pull some wires and create smoke (magic or otherwise). Blinding the drivers doesn't enable them to see their robot, so they couldn't see if anything were to begin malfunctioning.
2. Spectators. Probably close to 75% of the people at FIRST events are in the crowd. If they can't see part of the field, then they probably won't be too excited to watch the matches. Also, if the scouts couldn't see the robots, then they can't scout the robots for that portion, and that would be a HUGE blow to a lot of strategy teams.

I like the idea of a blind mode involving robots, but I just don't think that it's right for FIRST.

>.<

I disagree with your assessments here and I'll answer each of your reasons:
1> Safety -- Just because the driver(s) cannot directly see does not mean that they cannot get information about the robots. Camera feedback and human players (looking around the curtain ... lets call them spotters) could easily give feedback to the drivers.

2> Spectators/crowds -- In most arenas the crowd sees from the side of the field, so you would lose less than 10% seating visibility. You could also tap into the teams video feed (if they have one ... it's IP is known) and feed that to the big board, giving the crowd (and possibly human players) a robots eye view (something that would make the game MORE exciting ... if you ask me).


Are there issues to overcome in driving without seeing the robot? Absolutely.
Are they impossible to overcome? not at all.

[mayde]

You must be pretty eager to start up for next season!

for as much as it would rock to know the game this early in advance,
i think if we did, my team would get no fundraising done over the summer.

but, wouldn't it be great if the game was entirely dancing robots??

[Radical Pi]

You could also tap into the teams video feed (if they have one ... it's IP is known)

The DS could forward the camera to the FMS, however the FMS has no direct connection to the robot (everything is through the classmate), so this wouldn't work without breaking the alternate-language dashboards in the process

[ohhiitskelly1o3]

i think if somehow there were walls used in next years game it would bring it to a whole new level!
anyone every play indoor soccer? well,the ball is allowed to bounce off the wall and still be in play. something like that would be so awesome i think!

[j.cole]

Going off of one of the reasons to take a Break away from break away heres my idea. The reason was (correct me if I'm wrong) "You wonder if soccer was played with 12 balls americans would actually watch it." What I say to that is "You wonder if FIRST was played with 12 footballs the general public would actually watch it."

[Hadar]

Because it's FIRST 20th year, my guess is that the game will combine all three elements of the first logo (circle, square and triangle) I have no idea how though... =\

[RandomStyuff]

Because it's FIRST 20th year, my guess is that the game will combine all three elements of the first logo (circle, square and triangle) I have no idea how though... =\

Actually, I doubt it. They tried that in the FTC (don't remember when, could be in the FVC days) and from what I've read on these fourms (seeing as there is no FTC in Israel) it was a failure of sorts... forcing something like the logo onto gameplay would be just that: forced and unnatural. I doubt the correct way to design a game is by what kind of signs you'd have in it and adding those signs into the game would make it even worse. At the most I can see them doing something like that with Vision targets, where one is circular (like this year's), one triangular and one squared. It would give the programmers a challenge though...

[Bjenks548]

Anyone else think we're (including me) a little obsessed? The seasons over and were already onto the next one.
There are ceirtain elements of each game that I'm 99% sure won't change:
Autonomous period
Bonus round
Same shape of field (other then the corners which tend to change)
2 alliances of 3 teams each
There will be human players
Bumpers are needed on the robot at specified hights

Thats about all I'm sure about untill the game is released.

[Karibou]

Anyone else think we're (including me) a little obsessed? The seasons over and were already onto the next one.

Hey, the GDC starts planning for the next year as soon as the new game is out. We're actually a little slow, by their standards.

[kjolana1124]

Hey, the GDC starts planning for the next year as soon as the new game is out. We're actually a little slow, by their standards.

Kara's right. I think a goal we should have is, as a collective, come up with a rulebook of our own before kickoff. We should be able to do it ;)

[PAR_WIG1350]

I hope next year bumpers are only mandatory on the corners or something like that

[xxjgdancexx]

I say we have a scuba-bot game! The would seriously be epic :D
Or possibly ice hockey/field hockey/lacrosse mix?

[theprgramerdude]

Its early, but is anyone else thinking the 2012 game will involve some element of the field/world falling apart, and we're simply trying to make the robots survive/remain mobile for 2 minutes?

[Bjenks548]

Just a thought, wouldn't giving us really small game pieces such as marbles be really hard? Trying to grab and fire thouse things would be a fun chalenge. Also not letting them get swept up into unwanted parts of the bot would be bad.

[kjolana1124]

Its early, but is anyone else thinking the 2012 game will involve some element of the field/world falling apart, and we're simply trying to make the robots survive/remain mobile for 2 minutes?

This made me laugh. Very hard. I like it!

[roboraven15]

love the 2012 game!!!!! they better to that lmao

[ttldomination]

Its early, but is anyone else thinking the 2012 game will involve some element of the field/world falling apart, and we're simply trying to make the robots survive/remain mobile for 2 minutes?

Considering that most teams can barely stay together *now*. I don't know how much more FIRST would have to do before everyone starts falling apart. :P

[buildmaster5000]

Its early, but is anyone else thinking the 2012 game will involve some element of the field/world falling apart, and we're simply trying to make the robots survive/remain mobile for 2 minutes?

YES!!!!!!!! after two minutes, three feet of water floods the field, but that would be messy and hard to control. I would feel sorry if your robot got a little wet...

[kjolana1124]

YES!!!!!!!! after two minutes, three feet of water floods the field, but that would be messy and hard to control. I would feel sorry if your robot got a little wet...

WATERGAME

[AcesJames]

Dunno if it's been mentioned already... (Not searching 12 pages :p)....But I'd like to think that the GDC is going to keep with the modified sports motif, like soccer this past season. Dean himself at Kickoff said that he was "not afraid to do what's been proven to work already". I'm probably misquoting that, but you get the picture.

Considering that FRC keeps pushing for camera aided gameplay, I have a feeling we will be aiming at a target again in 2011, much the same way as 2010. Obviously, older games used the camera, but not quite in the same way. Bearing this in mind, the obvious sports that come to mind would probably be Hockey, Baseball, Football.

Or, the GDC could surprise us and go to something not-so-related to sports. It would follow a pattern... 2006 was basketball, 2007 was tic-tac-toe, 2008 was NASCAR, 2009 was...lunar exploration?, 2010 was soccer. According to this, it would seem that games that are similar to professional sports occur every other year. If that means anything at all, we're going to something different in 2011, and in that case, I have no idea.

[theprgramerdude]

YES!!!!!!!! after two minutes, three feet of water floods the field, but that would be messy and hard to control. I would feel sorry if your robot got a little wet...

Perhaps just one giant maze, with a load of obstacles/objects and holes in the way, with highground at the other end? Winner is the first one there? Hey, maybe even make it multi-level.

[SteveGPage]

Perhaps just one giant maze, with a load of obstacles/objects and holes in the way, with highground at the other end? Winner is the first one there? Hey, maybe even make it multi-level.


Maybe a Putt-putt/Golf theme - ramps, obstacles, etc... it could be a 3D game with multiple levels - you could either shoot the balls into the holes, or push them in. The more difficult the hole, the more the points - of course it would be full contact golf!

[R2D2DOC]

FOOTBALLS ! !

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Joe-Nedney-wins-kicking-contest-saves-Earth-fro?urn=nfl,235226

[johnr]

Don't have guess on game but on field piece-- an arch.

[apalrd]

...But the it's going to take more time trying to figure out how to drive it with only the camera...

We have a camera on our robot, fed to the Dashboard at 120x160. We only use the camera for dashboard feedback, and the framerate is good (although there is lag). During a practice session at CTC, the driver was able to drive down the indoor street from the shop, turn a corner into hallway, and drive the practice robot into the CAD room (standard-size door, no bumpers on the robot), with only the camera.

When the robot got back, I had a little tuning to do on the ride height, so I setup the controls on a bench in the shop. After fixing the ride height problem and flashing the code, I drove it out the doors and into the street (there are streets at CTC indoors), and drove around without any possibility of seeing the robot. I was semi-able to collect balls (the largest problem was blind spot directly in front of the robot), aim at people around 15 feet away, and kick. It was fun. I was then able to get the robot up to its full speed of 13.2 ft/sec in high gear, something we had never measured before on this robot (we measured 11.5 on the practice bot), driving by camera. The lag isn't that bad, only about 1s behind reality, so with enough practice you can account for that and follow, say, a line down the side of the road (something we did)

We did not train our drivers to drive by camera; we only use the camera on-field to give the coach feedback on balls hidden out of sight. But in the ~hour and two batteries of practice bot driving we had, we found it quite easy to drive by camera (even in high gear), although the lag time made it difficult to collect balls and perform accurate tasks quickly.

[R2D2DOC]

Alrighty==>

Arch + Putt_Putt = CROQUET ! !

[Enigma's puzzle]

Ok, a game with very little rules, just the standard no intent to destroy. The field is littered with balls, like Nerf balls, a combination of basketballs (like aim high), footballs, and the footballs with tails.

basketballs 1 point
footballs 2 points
tailed footballs 2x multiplier

Each team has a normal 8 foot table or 2 directly in front of the alliance wall. fully above the table at the end of the game counts, whether in your robot, on top of a robot, or directly on the table.

Maybe change the table in a way so balls stay on, or fall off. Or make zones in which prohibit defenders or more than 1 defender, or whatever the GDC can come up with to mess with our minds.

[Durza16]

I think a golf game would be interesting, and the maze idea is a good one.

but im secretly hoping for a watergame.

[JohnFogarty]

.....Jai-ali WOULD BE A WIN

[Thuvishan.R]

I would love to see some ramps come back either be it climbing on top of other robots or on a stationary ramp. :p

[Wildcat]

maybe no auto mode next year, maybe there will be a drop down cover screen in front of the driver stations for the first 15 sec forcing teams to use the camera feed to the DS to navigate

[theprgramerdude]

I don't think that can happen, seeing as how easily the field breaks already. What if one teams curtain doesn't retract?

[biojae]

I would love to see some ramps come back either be it climbing on top of other robots or on a stationary ramp. :p

Weren't the bumps ramp-like enough for you this year?
And there were some ramp-bots this year, to get others on the platform.

[548swimmer]

What about a game forcing a low profile.

The challenge would be to get small (6 inchish) balls into a hopper on the back of the opposing robot. The balls could come from a netted area where the net is 2ft above the ground. They could be kicked out to the other robots who could then attempt to score. To incorporate the human player, the balls could be dumped during a 10sec period occurring twice per minute into a ball return. The humans would then feed the balls through a chute back into the netted area.

[Katie_UPS]

What about a game forcing a low profile.

The challenge would be to get small (6 inchish) balls into a hopper on the back of the opposing robot. The balls could come from a netted area where the net is 2ft above the ground. They could be kicked out to the other robots who could then attempt to score. To incorporate the human player, the balls could be dumped during a 10sec period occurring twice per minute into a ball return. The humans would then feed the balls through a chute back into the netted area.
Hate to suppress any creativity, but this is pretty much just a combination of Lunacy and Breakaway.

[PAR_WIG1350]

What about a game forcing a low profile.

The challenge would be to get small (6 inchish) balls into a hopper on the back of the opposing robot. The balls could come from a netted area where the net is 2ft above the ground. They could be kicked out to the other robots who could then attempt to score. To incorporate the human player, the balls could be dumped during a 10sec period occurring twice per minute into a ball return. The humans would then feed the balls through a chute back into the netted area.

Sounds like '04 (dumping balls) plus '09 (goals pulled by robots) plus '10 (kicking)

Maybe the balls could be above the net and the robots under it, the biggest issue seems to be driver visibility and entanglement

[PAR_WIG1350]

Just a thought, wouldn't giving us really small game pieces such as marbles be really hard? Trying to grab and fire thouse things would be a fun chalenge. Also not letting them get swept up into unwanted parts of the bot would be bad.

What happens if marbles get in the robots? how would you keep track of all of them?

sry about the double post

[Bjenks548]

What happens if marbles get in the robots? how would you keep track of all of them?

It could be a test at making a robot marble proof... soon to lead into water proof.

[548swimmer]

It could be a test at making a robot marble proof... soon to lead into water proof.

I'm currently working on a watergame drivetrain. If you can call it a drivetrain... I'll upload when I finish.

[kgzak]

I like the idea of mobile goals. It makes the game interesting. They do not have to be pulled by other robots but maybe have the goals be able to move.

I would like to have a game where you can hold and posses and carry multiple balls. This year was fun and I liked it but I think it would be more fun to design something that can do more manipulation of balls. Maybe not even balls but some odd shape making it even harder to manipulate.

I do not want to get rid of autonomous. That is one of my favorite parts of building the robot, programing autonomous. The programers have some interesting ideas for autonomous next year, even though we don't know the game yet (anyone know how to make a GUI in Labview?)

[lemiant]

What about a game that was not on the floor {example:

Metal bars run width-wise along the field. The bars are about 1m (1 yard for you Americans) apart and 2m-3m off the floor. Robots start on raised platforms (like the bases of the towers this year), and are not allowed to touch the floor. There could be one (or a few) goals on each end of the field, and the aim is to get the playing pieces into the opponents goals. If you were an advanced team you could move from bar to bar to collect balls, but rookie teams could just travel back and forth along one bar, playing defense.
}

How's that for throwing a wrench in your drivetrain?

As an added plus it is themed after a game, FOOSBALL!

[theprgramerdude]

How would we get the robots on the bars if they're 2-3m off the floor?

[lemiant]

Pull ups, just like the end game this year: or there could be a rule that you could start on the bar, within the space extending vertically above your platform.

[PAR_WIG1350]

It could be like a giant spiderweb with I-beams to ride on and hang on to. Maybe it would popularize controls based on polar coordinates.

or, maybe the robots could be giant stationary arms.

[TomH]

How about a tennis-themed game where robots have to move balls beyond the opponent into a goal that is about 27' wide (width of field)? There would be a net in the middle, and penalties given for any robot that hits the net, and there would be multiple balls on the field. The balls would have to be retrieved by a robot- sort of the way you would with empty cells in Lunacy, except they would be placed in on the floor.

[Wildcat]

How about a tennis-themed game where robots have to move balls beyond the opponent into a goal that is about 27' wide (width of field)? There would be a net in the middle, and penalties given for any robot that hits the net, and there would be multiple balls on the field. The balls would have to be retrieved by a robot- sort of the way you would with empty cells in Lunacy, except they would be placed in on the floor.

maybe for auto for something like that the robot can only hit the ball from behind the baseline or whatever represents the baseline like the serve that starts a tennis match

[Akash Rastogi]

Maple syrup game, corn starch game, Jell-O game, butter game, condensed milk game, gatorade game. Maple syrup game gives too much of an advantage to the Canadians actually, nevermind. Water games are so overrated.

Am I close yet?

.

[Robert Cawthon]

How about a tennis-themed game where robots have to move balls beyond the opponent into a goal that is about 27' wide (width of field)? There would be a net in the middle, and penalties given for any robot that hits the net, and there would be multiple balls on the field. The balls would have to be retrieved by a robot- sort of the way you would with empty cells in Lunacy, except they would be placed in on the floor.

That sounds like PONG. For you youngsters, that was the first video game available for the public to play. I would say that for this year, it would be too close to breakaway, but does hold some promise for a game down the road.

[Doctorwho]

Maybe a capture the flag style game, where the robot must collect a marker from the opposing alliance's side of the field and return it to their side of the field.

[xxjgdancexx]

Maybe a capture the flag style game, where the robot must collect a marker from the opposing alliance's side of the field and return it to their side of the field.
that would actually be pretty cool! lots of action, but they would have to be possibly more strict with the rules than for the Breakway game due to the bot-on-bot contact with defense/offense. Still an awesome concept though :D

[MarioGal56]

I'm calling either "Mars" related, and/or green technology to be incorporated into the kits...somehow

[dag0620]

I'm calling either "Mars" related, and/or green technology to be incorporated into the kits...somehow

Many of us had to put up with Mars in our younger FLL days, please lets not re-visit those memories.

[JohnFogarty]

Capture the Flag would be cool, here's my thought if we were to go there. In the center of the feild there could be a maze where the walls would be high enough you can't see over. Therefore having to use your Camera feed to get through. :D

[roystur44]

How about motocross racing relays? The bots would have to pass a baton and race around a 3 dimensional course. The obstacles could be a hill climb, bumps, salmon pegs, straight away drag.


Roy

[TomH]

How about motocross racing relays? The bots would have to pass a baton and race around a 3 dimensional course. The obstacles could be a hill climb, bumps, salmon pegs, straight away drag.


Roy

It's an interesting idea, but there would have to no autonomous due to that its a race, and only 2 robots are moving at once. The matches would be longer, and since your idea is close to the racing view of Overdrive, I doubt we see it next year, but maybe in the future.

[Bjenks548]

One of my guesses is that this year it will not be a sphere game piece. Even years tend to have balls while odd years don't (the orbit balls weren't perfect spheres)

[Wildcat]

One of my guesses is that this year it will not be a sphere game piece. Even years tend to have balls while odd years don't (the orbit balls weren't perfect spheres)

footballs, its finally gonna be the year they use footballs

[Rick TYler]

footballs, its finally gonna be the year they use footballs

That WOULD be interesting. The VEX Robotics Competition game in 2009-10 used footballs as the primary game object. Clean Sweep was a fun game but -- you can trust me on this -- footballs are evil.

[548swimmer]

That WOULD be interesting. The VEX Robotics Competition game in 2009-10 used footballs as the primary game object. Clean Sweep was a fun game but -- you can trust me on this -- footballs are evil.

And so is the GDC. I vote for footballs!

[JohnFogarty]

hmm... Footballs would be cool... I could create a 2 axis throwing arm like the PING man.

[delsaner]

One of my guesses is that this year it will not be a sphere game piece. Even years tend to have balls while odd years don't (the orbit balls weren't perfect spheres)

There are two ways of looking at whether they will use spheres again. 2008, 2009, and 2010 had spheres as game pieces, so it is likely that the GDC will try to avert from using spheres as game pieces. I would not be suprised, however, if the game does have spheres as game pieces next year; spheres are extremely easy to work with. That's just my P.O.V.

[PAR_WIG1350]

I want Frisbees, they are fun, but I don't like the kind that are flat of have holes in the middle, they are unstable (usually)

[rcmolloy]

Well I am thinking in news and sports for my information. Last year was the lunar landing anniversary. This year is the World Cup. Next year there is nothing that sticks out to me yet. Although, if we are looking for answers I am pretty sure we should check them first or second.

[Wildcat]

Well I am thinking in news and sports for my information. Last year was the lunar landing anniversary. This year is the World Cup. Next year there is nothing that sticks out to me yet. Although, if we are looking for answers I am pretty sure we should check them first or second.

seeing as how the past couple of years honored the X anniversary of an event, i just did some googling and found that 2011 will be the 2500th anniversary of the Marathon (http://www.danaxtell.com/marathonanniversary/), the international year of chemistry and the 100th aniv. of Marie Curie's nobel prize for chemistry (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2009/February/2011ToBeInternationalYearOfChemistry.asp), AND the 150th aniv. of the Battle of Gettysburg (http://www.gettysburg.travel/150/event.asp) if these spark any ideas

[Karibou]

seeing as how the past couple of years honored the X anniversary of an event, i just did some googling and found that 2011 will be the 2500th anniversary of the Marathon (http://www.danaxtell.com/marathonanniversary/), the international year of chemistry and the 100th aniv. of Marie Curie's nobel prize for chemistry (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2009/February/2011ToBeInternationalYearOfChemistry.asp), AND the 150th aniv. of the Battle of Gettysburg (http://www.gettysburg.travel/150/event.asp) if these spark any ideas

Well then, chemistry seems to be a trend. I wonder what FIRST could do with that? (that's not even sarcasm: I really do wonder how FIRST could involve chem with a robot competition)

[EricH]

Two battles, but we all know that every time FIRST puts out a game, there's a bit of a battle on the field...

[blackiceskier]

Well we can wait for the FTC game to be announced. Generally this gives a hint to what the FRC game will be like. Face Off and Lunacy both had different driving surfaces than normal. Hot Shot and Break away had a ball return or holder plus the end game made a large difference. So if we wait until September we can get a tiny glimpse into FRC

[JohnFogarty]

As being part of the FTC World Winning alliance i'd say you are right FTC gives some hint to what the FRC is going to be like :D

[TomH]

Well we can wait for the FTC game to be announced. Generally this gives a hint to what the FRC game will be like. Face Off and Lunacy both had different driving surfaces than normal. Hot Shot and Break away had a ball return or holder plus the end game made a large difference. So if we wait until September we can get a tiny glimpse into FRC

You are right there. For the past two years, when I looked at the FTC games, I tried to figure out what relation they had to that years FRC game. The only thing is that the relation was not something that would make the game stick out, such as that there was a ball holder in Hot Shot and there was a ball holder, in Breakaway there was a ball return. So the relation is that there was something in both games that let balls onto the field. There were differences too though. So there may be a relation between both, but it seems that it wouldn't be that big similarity.

Edit: Also, what would be an anniversary of something soccer/football related, or anything that is related to Breakaway?

[hg273]

Edit: Also, what would be an anniversary of something soccer/football related, or anything that is related to Breakaway?


See above,
the World Cup takes place this year in South Africa (Breakaway)
Last year was the anniversary of the moon landing (Lunacy)
2008 was the 60th anniversary of NASCAR (Overdrive)

see a trend?

[PAR_WIG1350]

Whatever it is, the GDC will get creative with it, if they follow a trend for too long it might get predictable and that wouldn't be good.:eek:

[bassoondude]

My prediction is that it will have something to do with the Civil War. I don't know how this will play out (possible water game with the Star of the West?) but i think it would be something vastly different than the past few years, while still keeping to the same theme of anniversaries.

[Wildcat]

seeing as how the past couple of years honored the X anniversary of an event, i just did some googling and found that 2011 will be the 2500th anniversary of the Marathon (http://www.danaxtell.com/marathonanniversary/), the international year of chemistry and the 100th aniv. of Marie Curie's nobel prize for chemistry (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/Issues/2009/February/2011ToBeInternationalYearOfChemistry.asp), AND the 150th aniv. of the Battle of Gettysburg (http://www.gettysburg.travel/150/event.asp) if these spark any ideas
in addition to what i previously mentioned i oticed its also the 20th aniv. of FRC

[Karibou]

in addition to what i previously mentioned i oticed its also the 20th aniv. of FRC

Well then, are there any other special 20th anniversaries coming up in 2011?

[GaryVoshol]

AND the 150th aniv. of the Battle of Gettysburg (http://www.gettysburg.travel/150/event.asp) if these spark any ideaserr, Gettysburg was 1863. But the Civil War / War Between the States started in 1861.

[EricH]

err, Gettysburg was 1863. But the Civil War / War Between the States started in 1861.
Drat. This one's going to be a long one, then--I bet the 5-year plan was the game...it'll be played for 5 years, or until everyone gives up.:ahh::D:yikes:

[TomH]

Could we see the return of an older FIRST game with some different but not major changes?

[Chris is me]

Could we see the return of an older FIRST game with some different but not major changes?

I've always wanted this to happen on a Vex scale.

post number 2791

[dag0620]

Could we see the return of an older FIRST game with some different but not major changes?

As previously mentioned, I had recommended Maize Craize, being brought back. However with the 25th (which is much bigger, and usually a more important milestone) only 5 years away, I see special anniversary festivities being held off till then.

[PAR_WIG1350]

speaking of marathon, maybe we will need to build robots with legs.

[Karibou]

err, Gettysburg was 1863. But the Civil War / War Between the States started in 1861.
Heh. I guess this is an appropriate year for the FRC (and FTC and FLL)/VRC championships to be held on the same days. War Between the Robotics Competitions for Volunteers?

[davidthefat]

speaking of marathon, maybe we will need to build robots with legs.

I suggested that before, apparently its not cool

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I suggested that before, apparently its not cool

Of course robots with legs are cool ... just without the terrain that would require them, wheels are more efficient.

[delsaner]

speaking of marathon, maybe we will need to build robots with legs.

I suggested that before, apparently its not cool

Awesome = Absolutely
Possible to complete in 6 weeks = Unlikely

Robots with wheels does seem really awesome, but the concept does not seem compatible with FRC, nor would be have the time to actually test and build a robot with legs. That is just my opinion.

[Radical Pi]

I suggested that before, apparently its not cool

Only when it's programmers in question is it a problem. I am not writing self-balancing algorithms on our robots

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Only when it's programmers in question is it a problem. I am not writing self-balancing algorithms on our robots

So design it with 6 legs. You'll always have 3 point contact with the floor and thus no self balancing algorithms required ... well, no more than a wheeled robot anyways ;)

[Robert Cawthon]

My prediction is that it will have something to do with the Civil War. I don't know how this will play out (possible water game with the Star of the West?) but i think it would be something vastly different than the past few years, while still keeping to the same theme of anniversaries.

How about "shooting" laser pointers at a target on the opponents robot? And instead of red and blue alliance teams, we have blue and grey? Or how about capture the flag with historical unit flags for each team or alliance?

[Wildcat]

How about "shooting" laser pointers at a target on the opponents robot? ?
ROBOT LAZER TAG!!!!