Update #20

[quinxorin]

So, Who's seen Rule Update #20?
The GDC met in an emergency teleconference meeting last night. They would like to remind teams of the original intent of Breakaway. Breakaway is a game designed with the idea of high mobility and interaction. For this reason, blocking the tunnel is now considered a form of pinning, as it restricts some teams to only one zone. A team may not block a tunnel for more than five seconds during regular gameplay. This rule does not apply during the finale.
And remember, teams, this update was published April 1, April Fools Day.
[the MC announced this during opening ceremonies at the Michigan State Championship today. It was an April Fools joke, obviously in direct response to 469's robot, possibly the best in the world.]

[Rion Atkinson]

So, Who's seen Rule Update #20?
The GDC met in an emergency teleconference meeting last night. They would like to remind teams of the original intent of Breakaway. Breakaway is a game designed with the idea of high mobility and interaction. For this reason, blocking the tunnel is now considered a form of pinning, as it restricts some teams to only one zone. A team may not block a tunnel for more than five seconds during regular gameplay. This rule does not apply during the finale.
And remember, teams, this update was published April 1, April Fools Day.
[the MC announced this during opening ceremonies at the Michigan State Championship today, obviously in direct response to 469's robot, possibly the best in the world.]

So... The fact that it is April 1st and the fact that you have no link attached to this post... Makes me think this isn't true. :P

EDIT: Sorry to burst your fun. A quick check, no team update today. I get the feeling that they didn't do one today for this very reason.

[quinxorin]

So... The fact that it is April 1st and the fact that you have no link attached to this post... Makes me think this isn't true. :P

EDIT: Sorry to burst your fun. A quick check, no team update today. I get the feeling that they didn't do one today for this very reason.
Oh wow I forgot to say what actually happened at the end. Yes it was an April Fools joke. The MC at the Michigan State Championship announced it this afternoon during opening ceremonies.

[Rion Atkinson]

Oh wow I forgot to say what actually happened at the end. Yes it was an April Fools joke. The MC at the Michigan State Championship announced it this afternoon during opening ceremonies.

That is awesome! :D My math teacher assigned a whole bunch of homework today and said it was due by the end of the hour. About 10 minutes later he goes "Oh, have I said April Fools yet? It's all due on Monday" Here we thought he was going to lighten our work load... :yikes:

[dtengineering]

That is awesome! :D My math teacher assigned a whole bunch of homework today and said it was due by the end of the hour. About 10 minutes later he goes "Oh, have I said April Fools yet? It's all due on Monday" Here we thought he was going to lighten our work load... :yikes:

Ummm... don't know about you, but in Canada Monday is a holiday.

So's Friday, for that matter.

Maybe you're still "being had"?

Jason

[Karibou]

I was sent a text today saying "Blocking a tunnel is now illegal! No 469!" I actually believed it for a few seconds :P (then a little bell went off in my mind of "wait, I'd have hundreds of astonished tweets in my inbox about this...no way." The fact that it's April Fools day didn't even register in my mind o.O)

[quinxorin]

I was sent a text today saying "Blocking a tunnel is now illegal! No 469!" I actually believed it for a few seconds :P (then a little bell went off in my mind of "wait, I'd have hundreds of astonished tweets in my inbox about this...no way." The fact that it's April Fools day didn't even register in my mind o.O)
We tricked our mechanical leader and two of our mentors by telling them that we blew out our cRIO this morning. They were very mad when they arrived this afternoon.

[Knufire]

When I heard this, I was spazzing out right next to the field. Had half the stadium laughing at me....

Next time, I'll make sure to remember it was April Fools Day ;).

[Rion Atkinson]

Ummm... don't know about you, but in Canada Monday is a holiday.

So's Friday, for that matter.

Maybe you're still "being had"?

Jason

Maybe so... But I do know that I have school tomorrow... If only I had a calender....

[quinxorin]

Maybe so... But I do know that I have school tomorrow... If only I had a calender....
See, we have no school tomarrow. Or Monday. Or Tuesday. Or Wednesday. Or Thursday. Or Friday.
Spring Break.

[Mike Schreiber]

I was talking to a team that walked out of opening ceremonies after that announcement was made and was now much less nervous about their match against 469...I had to tell them it was an April Fool's joke...

[Andrew Schreiber]

Maybe this is just a grumpy old person speaking but I felt that even joking about this was inappropriate. 469 is putting up with a lot of flak this year. They have been called unfair, cheaters, and un-gp. They have endured constant discussion of how FIRST should make their 6 weeks of hard work illegal. They have been pretty good sports about it. You know what, they've been better than I would be. And better than most people I see on here would probably handle it.

It needs to stop.

469 took a risk. Just like in business, you can't profit unless you risk something. 469 is being rewarded for taking a tremendous risk.

In short, I am NOT amused by this joke at all. I think it is in bad taste and just generally disrespectful to a team that has wowed me ever since my first year in FRC.

[Rion Atkinson]

Maybe this is just a grumpy old person speaking but I felt that even joking about this was inappropriate. 469 is putting up with a lot of flak this year. They have been called unfair, cheaters, and un-gp. They have endured constant discussion of how FIRST should make their 6 weeks of hard work illegal. They have been pretty good sports about it. You know what, they've been better than I would be. And better than most people I see on here would probably handle it.

It needs to stop.

469 took a risk. Just like in business, you can't profit unless you risk something. 469 is being rewarded for taking a tremendous risk.

In short, I am NOT amused by this joke at all. I think it is in bad taste and just generally disrespectful to a team that has wowed me ever since my first year in FRC.

Maybe it is just me, but I find this very humorous. Yes, 469 made an AMAZING robot this year; I personally applaud them! I love the fact that they took the risk to make such an amazing robot. I know that if I was them, I would at the same way they have. Heck, I would just sit back and let people yell about me. What do I care? It's not like what they think really matters all that much.

Why can we not joke about that which is serious? I do, it always helps to lighten the mood. :D

[Andrew Schreiber]

Maybe it is just me, but I find this very humorous. Yes, 469 made an AMAZING robot this year; I personally applaud them! I love the fact that they took the risk to make such an amazing robot. I know that if I was them, I would at the same way they have. Heck, I would just sit back and let people yell about me. What do I care? It's not like what they think really matters all that much.

Why can we not joke about that which is serious? I do, it always helps to lighten the mood. :D

Simple, because EVERY year whatever teams that do well are belittled and insulted because they are successful. Personally I don't want my students getting the impression that being great means you will be picked on and insulted. Every year, lately it has been bashing 217 or 1114 or 67 or [team du jour] All these teams did was do well. Should we really be insulting them for it? I don't CARE how they react, I think by insulting them and hoping FIRST makes rules against them you are celebrating mediocrity and that is WRONG.

I know this was a joke, I know that FIRST hasn't bowed to public pressure. I am more concerned by the thought that we as a community have put these robots and this stupid little competition so high that we have forgotten what FIRST is about. It isn't about winning and losing, it is about showing students that STEM can be fun. Or, to say it as someone I know says about American FRC, "It is to make America play 20 years of catch up with the rest of the world" We do that by out of the box thinking, 469 EXEMPLIFIED that this year. Instead of being praised they are being called cheaters. That disgusts me.

[Akash Rastogi]

When I heard about this, I also felt it was a little bit in bad taste and a bit disrespectful to 469. As Andrew said, they've had to endure a lot of unwarranted criticism this season, they could have done without this "joke." Also, I'm pretty sure Andrew and I are thinking of the same person from 469 when we say that people on the team were insulted by this.

I too realize it was a joke, but 469 has been through enough this season. Cut them some slack.

+0.02

Edit: I commend 469 for being rock solid throughout this season by not caving into criticism. You guys rock.

[JackG]

The aspect of the joke that nobody has seemed to notice is that it pokes fun at the GDC and the uncertainty surrounding their decision making/ideas for Breakaway. They already made a radical change to the rules regarding seeding, so the plausibility of them making another big "update" to the rules with something like this adds to the humor. (And I feel remarkably stodgy analyzing a joke like this. . .)



Simple, because EVERY year whatever teams that do well are belittled and insulted because they are successful. Personally I don't want my students getting the impression that being great means you will be picked on and insulted. Every year, lately it has been bashing 217 or 1114 or 67 or [team du jour] All these teams did was do well. Should we really be insulting them for it? I don't CARE how they react, I think by insulting them and hoping FIRST makes rules against them you are celebrating mediocrity and that is WRONG.

Andrew, nobody but you can make you feel insulted. The same goes for every single other person and team. This is an excellent opportunity for you to teach your students about having thick skin and not taking things personally. It's not just FIRST where successful teams take flack; look at how people hate Duke basketball or the New York Yankees. Instead of getting upset over some harmless humor, use this as a learning opportunity.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Andrew, nobody but you can make you feel insulted. The same goes for every single other person and team. This is an excellent opportunity for you to teach your students about having thick skin and not taking things personally. It's not just FIRST where successful teams take flack; look at how people hate Duke basketball or the New York Yankees. Instead of getting upset over some harmless humor, use this as a learning opportunity.

When someone cheers because your robot design you spent 6 weeks building and 5 weeks tweaking has been made illegal let me know how you feel. Because that was what was done today.

[pschre]

When someone cheers because your robot design you spent 6 weeks building and 5 weeks tweaking has been made illegal let me know how you feel. Because that was what was done today.

I think that crowd reaction to the joke is more indicative of the incorrect attitude that Andrew is pointing out, more so than the spirit of the joke itself. While I wasn't there, I wouldn't think that the MC/whoever hatched the April Fool's joke would put it out there publicly with the intent of inciting a mass negative reaction against 469 by people drinking that Haterade. As WWE commentator JBL used to say, borrowing football imagery, "If you don't want T.O. to dance in the end zone, don't let him score." I don't think that a mass cheer in response to that April Fool was an appropriate reaction at all. I would expect that reaction from, say, the aunts and uncles of team members in the bleachers who have a lack of understanding of the process and spirit of building a robot and competing, and who think it must be wrong that little Johnny's robot is getting owned out there.

For most of the last 9 seasons, do my kids look at the consistently rock-solid teams who have more professional engineer mentors than we have total people involved with our team with more than a hint of jealousy? Hell yeah they do. But I try to turn that into motivation for them, rather than permitting 9 years of bitterness to turn into learned helplessness and settling for, if not celebrating, mediocrity.

As far as what Jack said about having a thick skin, I do think that teams who have had rule changes, real non-fooling ones, added in subsequent years pretty apparently in reaction to some ingenious, highly advantageous thing they did, could and should wear it like a badge of honor. The same could be said for those few excellent teams who build a robot that plays the game so commandingly that they inspire haters. But, as you mentioned the Yankees, not everyone, especially high school kids, can be Jeter-like in their ability to withstand if not relish being hated by the opposing fans.

[JackG]

When someone cheers because your robot design you spent 6 weeks building and 5 weeks tweaking has been made illegal let me know how you feel. Because that was what was done today.

You know how I'd feel about those people cheering? "What a bunch of jerks." You how I'd react if someone rigged a bucket of water to dump on me as an April Fools prank? "What a jerk." In either case, the best idea is to shrug it off. Having thick skin does not mean being insulted by one thing but not another. A big part of life is learning to roll with the punches (i.e. all of them), not roll with the little ones and get hurt by the big ones. Sure, the cheering when your robot has been declared illegal can be quite hurtful, but how you react to it is up to you. What an opportunity for maturity growth and building character!

Those individuals who cheered at 469's apparent misfortune were clearly acting in a distasteful fashion far removed from any semblance of gracious professionalism. But that does not mean we cannot make these kind of jokes. We cannot pussyfoot around around potentially sensitive topics or jokes because a few bad apples might sour the fun. FIRST is about changing the culture, for crying out loud! We can never completely eliminate those who belittle us and drag us down, but we can build ourselves up to deal with them.

pschre is absolutely right when he brought up that high schoolers are not exactly quite prepared to deal with derision and hate. But then again, we're in a competition where we have high schoolers, not professional engineers, build and program robots! We're asking a lot out of the students technically, and they grow and learn because of it. Simultaneously when we're asking students to live up to the standards of gracious professionalism, is it too much to ask them to grow and develop in other ways?

tl;dr version: Why silence the rude ones and naysayers when you could have the students learn to deal with them?

[peter1626]

This little april fools joke goes against every thing FIRST is about, gracious professionalism. Not only was the MC un-gp but everyone in the stands who cheered only because they knew that 469 was now illegal.

[quinxorin]

Personally, when I heard it, I didn't know to think whether it was good or bad.

Also, my team holds 469 in high regard; We don't insult you guys. I still thought the joke was funny though. I hadn't been April Fooled yet.

[Adam Freeman]

I agree with Andrew. When an April fool's joke is played, at the expense of a team with a controversial robot design, and the crowd is cheering that they have been made illegal....its not a funny joke.

If I had created "Update 20", I would let 469 know about it before hand, and played the joke for the rest of the competition.

Talking with 469 on the field, they had no idea this was coming.

Oh well, the team members on 469 are better sports than I would have been.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I agree with Andrew. When an April fool's joke is played, at the expense of a team with a controversial robot design, and the crowd is cheering that they have been made illegal....its not a funny joke.

If I had created "Update 20", I would let 469 know about it before hand, and played the joke for the rest of the competition.

Talking with 469 on the field, they had no idea this was coming.

Oh well, the team members on 469 are better sports than I would have been.

Oh, c'mon. You've never laughed at a joke about Tiger Woods? Or Blondes?

Please. Most jokes will have one group (or person) as the butt of the joke. Get over it, and get thicker skin.


To 469:
Consider this, These jokes (and all the talk about 'how to beat your robot' and 'making your robot illegal') are because when it comes to the elimination rounds THEY CAN'T BEAT YOU.

You have the most dominant robot (for elims) that I have seen in years. Kudos to your team. And everytime someone wants to make your robot illegal, and everytime someone says 'I think 469 can be beaten this way', remember that NOBODY is talking about their robot ... they are only talking about how to beat your machine. Again Kudos.

[ALTrammell818]

I agree that this was distasteful. However it would have been quit funny to see had they told 469 in advance.

On another note my head mentor told me when I walked into his physics classroom that we were going to states and already had a bus ready to take us. He said that some of the team and mentors had set up the pit the night before but I couldn't be contacted for one reason or another. I was jumping up and down when he said April Fools.

I then threatened to slash his tires :rolleyes:.

Turns out we actually we were offered a spot last minute, but they turned it down due to having no time to prepare. Or so I've been told.

[FRC4ME]

I don't see anything wrong with this joke. The whole point of an April Fool is that you make someone really mad or disappointed for a few seconds, then watch their sigh of relief when you tell them April Fools. In this case, 469 got fooled. Now, doing it the other way around - making someone really happy only to extinguish their hopes with April Fools - would be distasteful.

I will agree that cheering in response to the joke was out-of-line - unless, of course, they realized it was a joke and were cheering for the MC's cleverness. Exactly how much cheering was there? Reading these forums gives me the impression that most of the FIRST community supports 469 (as they should). Regardless, the telling of a joke is not wrong because some people might laugh at it the wrong way. We can be disappointed in the reaction to the joke while still finding the joke itself to be funny.

I also love the mockery of the GDC: "The GDC would like to remind teams of the intent of Breakaway..." that's exactly how a team update would begin. :D

[synth3tk]

Oh, c'mon. You've never laughed at a joke about Tiger Woods? Or Blondes?

Please. Most jokes will have one group (or person) as the butt of the joke. Get over it, and get thicker skin.
^ This. x1000, this.

Trust me, I'd love for our team's robot to be so good that almost the entire FIRST/CD community wants to find a way to stop it. Yes, I think that the MC/volunteers should have talked to 469 first, so they wouldn't feel left out in the dark. But as to this being out-of-line, it's April 1, they've got a really strong robot, and it was down-right funny.

[Sumathi]

Once someone explained to me who 469 was, I got the joke. It is kinda comical. I really want to see them in action, so if anyone has links to watch them please post or message.

[Nigel]

I don't see why questioning a design is not in the spirit of FIRST?

Mayhaps calling someone a cheater is not Graciously Professional, but is it not in the spirit of engineering and all of that to question everything? Am I supposed to accept a bot which is admittedly god-like as just being such and there is no way the team bent the rules? If this becomes the case, a) we aren't human anymore because being suspicious is of human nature, and b) there will be teams which abuse this and bend the rules. Did 469? No, of course not, and I'm not saying they would, but SOMEONE would be tempted if all designs went unchallenged. I'm all for giving 469 kudos for their kick-$@#$@#$@# robot, but I completely understand why people have questioned their design so thoroughly, and in fact, it is a good thing for THEM that people on here have because if you look in the "game breaker bot" thread, you'll find 469's general robot and all of the arguments and rules against it... all of the questioning... this helps those enterprising teams who try it by showing them everything that's going to be thrown at them and helps them plan around it.

Is it gp to cheer when hearing that the "god-bot"'s main strategy was thwarted? well professionals everywhere I know would cheer if their main competitor got the boot... would Apple not cheer if Microsoft was shut down? or vice versa? You mention how hurt you would be if after 6 weeks of work your robot was dq'd or people cheered when they thought it was, etc etc etc... what about if you spent 6 weeks working on a robot and it got eaten and the bones spit out in your matches because of a god-bot? how would you feel if that monster that was about to nom the heck outta your robot got its biggest, scariest fangs removed? you'd be pretty relieved huh? maybe even cheer because your baby for the last 6 weeks had a chance to grow up now? probably yes...

I'm just saying, its expected of human nature and observed in professional settings where people cheer when their main competitor goes under, and the questioning and nitpicking not only keeps everyone honest, but also helps those teams who are doing awesome by showing them all the potential issues with their design

I'm not attempting to bash 469 at all here, their bot absolutely dominates, and they're a great team, as are all the other big names out there, they're big names for a reason... I'm just agreeing with someone (i forget who) earlier with the tougher skin comment.

my $1.50

[FRC4ME]

I don't see why questioning a design is not in the spirit of FIRST?

Mayhaps calling someone a cheater is not Graciously Professional, but is it not in the spirit of engineering and all of that to question everything? Am I supposed to accept a bot which is admittedly god-like as just being such and there is no way the team bent the rules? If this becomes the case, a) we aren't human anymore because being suspicious is of human nature, and b) there will be teams which abuse this and bend the rules. Did 469? No, of course not, and I'm not saying they would, but SOMEONE would be tempted if all designs went unchallenged. I'm all for giving 469 kudos for their kick-$@#$@#$@# robot, but I completely understand why people have questioned their design so thoroughly, and in fact, it is a good thing for THEM that people on here have because if you look in the "game breaker bot" thread, you'll find 469's general robot and all of the arguments and rules against it... all of the questioning... this helps those enterprising teams who try it by showing them everything that's going to be thrown at them and helps them plan around it.

Is it gp to cheer when hearing that the "god-bot"'s main strategy was thwarted? well professionals everywhere I know would cheer if their main competitor got the boot... would Apple not cheer if Microsoft was shut down? or vice versa? You mention how hurt you would be if after 6 weeks of work your robot was dq'd or people cheered when they thought it was, etc etc etc... what about if you spent 6 weeks working on a robot and it got eaten and the bones spit out in your matches because of a god-bot? how would you feel if that monster that was about to nom the heck outta your robot got its biggest, scariest fangs removed? you'd be pretty relieved huh? maybe even cheer because your baby for the last 6 weeks had a chance to grow up now? probably yes...

I'm just saying, its expected of human nature and observed in professional settings where people cheer when their main competitor goes under, and the questioning and nitpicking not only keeps everyone honest, but also helps those teams who are doing awesome by showing them all the potential issues with their design

I'm not attempting to bash 469 at all here, their bot absolutely dominates, and they're a great team, as are all the other big names out there, they're big names for a reason... I'm just agreeing with someone (i forget who) earlier with the tougher skin comment.

my $1.50

The problem is not that people questioned 469's bot and its legality. I doubt many of us didn't immediately think, "are you sure that's legal?" upon hearing about 469's design for the first time.

The problem is with people who either (1) want the rules of the game to be changed after build season to specifically make 469's strategy illegal or (2) consider 469 to be "cheaters" in principle, despite following all of the rules, because they are winning in an unconventional manner.

Having said that, I do not believe very many of the above actually exist.

[Mike Schreiber]

Oh, c'mon. You've never laughed at a joke about Tiger Woods? Or Blondes?

Please. Most jokes will have one group (or person) as the butt of the joke. Get over it, and get thicker skin.



Tiger woods is in the room...Do you make a joke about his most recent life crisis?

What separates FIRST from a high school sport is that FIRST students never boo, they never play to break another robot, they never cheat, and no one wants to win by a penalty.

This year teams cheer whenever 469 gets a penalty, when they tip, when their is a practical joke that is hurtful to them.

I will be just as happy as anyone else when someone finally legitimately beats them in a clean match where there's no penalties and they aren't tipped. I will never cheer for a penalty nor a destructive style such as intentional tipping, which I have witnessed several times.

469 has HAD a thick skin. But how much do you want to put them through? They are dominating to the point that teams are dropping the standards that separate FIRST students from normal students.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Tiger woods is in the room...Do you make a joke about his most recent life crisis?


On April fools day, Yes. As a public figure he's going to get this.


What separates FIRST from a high school sport is that FIRST students never boo, they never play to break another robot, they never cheat, and no one wants to win by a penalty.


FIRSTers are human. I doubt the above is 100% true (but I wish it were).


This year teams cheer whenever 469 gets a penalty, when they tip, when their is a practical joke that is hurtful to them.


and I've seen teams cheer for 469 when they are scoring 26-1 matches. A practical joke is just that, get over it.


I will be just as happy as anyone else when someone finally legitimately beats them in a clean match where there's no penalties and they aren't tipped. I will never cheer for a penalty nor a destructive style such as intentional tipping, which I have witnessed several times.


and I will be happy when they win Einstien. A joke is not destructive play and intentional tipping. I've never talked about destructive play nor tipping in this thread. Please refrain from putting words into my posts and strawman arguments, they are counterproductive and just plain wrong (IE: go back and reread my post).


469 has HAD a thick skin. But how much do you want to put them through? They are dominating to the point that teams are dropping the standards that separate FIRST students from normal students.

469 has had thick skin, and for that I applaud them. It's other people (like your posts) that I telling to get thicker skin. As I said before, 469 is one of the most domanant robots I've seen in the last few years, people will try and figure a way to beat them ... someone will eventually win, but not this year.

[Karibou]

This year teams cheer whenever 469 gets a penalty, when they tip, when their is a practical joke that is hurtful to them.


I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second. Everyone, please remember that when a team wins a match by penalties on the other alliance, they're going to cheer - they won. Whether or not the penalties are on 469 or not, they're going to be cheering. So will all of their supporters, their brother or sister teams, and their friends. When one of the teams (it was a smaller robot - 1023, maybe?) succeeded in keeping 469 parallel to the ground in one of the elimination matches - the closest anyone really got to tipping that robot on a flat plane, because that match proved that 469 CANNOT tip in that fashion - I was one of the ones screaming "OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH" in the stands. The friends that I was sitting with were doing the same - all three of us wondering whether or not 469 would be out, if there were going to be penalties awarded, and what the eventual outcome would be. We weren't cheering for seeing them tipped, we were aghast at everything that was going on, and I know that it's impossible to distinguish things like that from the honest-to-goodness cheers. Just remember that not all noise that comes from the stands is necessarily cheering [:

What I was not a fan of was when 469 was trapped on a bump, and the entire arena cheered - it was very obvious that it was a cheer for 469 being knocked out of commission. There was another cheer when they were freed, but it wasn't nearly as loud (probably from their alliance and a few other teams).

[Mike Schreiber]

and I will be happy when they win Einstien. A joke is not destructive play and intentional tipping. I've never talked about destructive play nor tipping in this thread. Please refrain from putting words into my posts and strawman arguments, they are counterproductive and just plain wrong (IE: go back and reread my post).


That section was not referring to your post, that section was referring to FIRST in general and actions I've witnessed at competitions. I was simply stating all the crap they have had to put up with this year in addition to that joke. Please refrain from calling legitimate facts "just wrong". It happened.


469 has had thick skin, and for that I applaud them. It's other people (like your posts) that I telling to get thicker skin.

I'm sorry for standing up for a team who would receive too much flack if they were to defend themselves. I'm assuming being from NH that you have not personally talked to them about this subject (if I am wrong then I apologize) but it doesn't exactly feel good to know that almost no one wants you to win. It's hurtful when people cheer for 6 weeks of your hard work being deemed illegal. Or for your robot being taken out of commission on the bump as Karibou said. Perhaps not all noise is cheering, but there are cases where it is pretty obvious what people are yelling about.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

That section was not referring to your post, that section was referring to FIRST in general and actions I've witnessed at competitions. I was simply stating all the crap they have had to put up with this year in addition to that joke. Please refrain from calling legitimate facts "just wrong". It happened.


Your quotes appeared to be a direct response to my posts, and a strawman argument against them.

From what I've seen on these forums, 469 has many followers/wellwishers. It's true that many, here, are trying to figure out how to beat 469 ... but the reason for that is that they are that good. 'nuff said there.


I'm sorry for standing up for a team who would receive too much flack if they were to defend themselves. I'm assuming being from NH that you have not personally talked to them about this subject (if I am wrong then I apologize) but it doesn't exactly feel good to know that almost no one wants you to win. It's hurtful when people cheer for 6 weeks of your hard work being deemed illegal. Or for your robot being taken out of commission on the bump as Karibou said. Perhaps not all noise is cheering, but there are cases where it is pretty obvious what people are yelling about.

It's true that I haven't spoken with them. That being said, I'm a fan of their robot, and their team. They have shown class throughout all of this and deserve every award they are getting. As I said "I'll see them on Einstien".

... and as far as robots being deemed illegal, well we know all about that up here in this neck of the woods (just ask team 190 ... and no one was cheering).